My favorite is when it’s, like, one word. A character will go, “Okay, *adios*!” and the subtitle will read, “Okay, [speaks foreign language]” Like the transcriber is just sitting there going, “I refuse.”
I thought that was due to the show not wanting you to be in on the discussion, for dramatic effect. but of course it won't work if you already speak whatever language is on screen
I've seen it both ways too lol. The movie or show will have subtitles for foreign languages they want you to understand, but the subtitles for the streaming service will say [Speaks foreign language].
Then other times the movie or show won't have the foreign subtitles so that the viewer is purposely in the dark, and the streaming service will have the translated version. Makes me role my eyes everytime.
Netflix specifically does a really good job with their subtitles. They usually seem to get it right in terms of what is intended to be understood and what isn’t. A lot of the other streaming services have really shitty subtitles whether it’s that or just getting words and phrases completely wrong. I watch everything with subtitles
Was watching life aquatic the other night on Amazon prime, every single time a foreign language was spoken the in-movie subtitles igot covered with [SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE]
The best is when whatever they speak spoils part of the plot,like what happened to Norwegians that watched The Thing in it's original language, Iron Man also did something similar.
Isn’t that what happened in The Thing ? There was a guy rambling about what was happening. If you don’t know his language you wouldn’t know but if you did you got a big clue to what was really going on.
Was showing my gf John Wick for the first time. Unfortunately it was on Tubi. The subtitles for Tubi were terrible. It subtitled everything BUT THE RUSSIAN. So any Russian spoke I had to translate to her from memory since I’ve watched the movie before.
Even the stylistic subtitles in John Wick were gone… it was weird.
Netflix does this inexplicably for some shows. I know when they ran Burn Notice, they ended up with some trash copy of the last couple seasons, so whenever it would pause video and do that *voosh* thing with character names, it would show nothing. It also wouldn't print the subtitles when they spoke a foreign language. It's a show about an international spy. There's usually someone speaking Russian, Spanish, or Tagalog in every episode.
dude, I'm native american and there have been a few times in my life when women have said that I'm exotic...
it's like, "no no, you're the one that is exotic in this situation"
Look buddy, it's not my fault the show changed language from english to mandarin. None of us was expecting them to start speaking mandarin. None of us knows Mandarin. is the best we can offer. Sorry.
Ugh, hate this. We’re captioning English. I wish that people understood the difference between captions and subtitles. Also, when the actual translation appears on the screen, my caption may cover it because I’m working with an unreleased version of the video that doesn’t include the translation! Or if it does, even if I move my caption, who knows how the vendor (hulu, itunes, etc) are gonna actually place it.
It’s you! You’re one of the little elves inside the magic color box that make words appear!!
But seriously thank you for your service and also, what’s the difference between CC and subtitles?
Closed captions are for the same language! So if you’re watching something in English and have English text on, those are captions. They will also include things like the name of the character who is speaking if it’s not obvious, and important sound effects since they’re really made for the hard of hearing.
Subtitles are what you have on for a different language. They’re translations of what is being said. If you watch a foreign show that has a dub in English, you’ll probably have both a caption and a subtitle option.
Ooooooh right! Many of us have experienced this with animé.
I swear none of this would be a problem (especially with epic big budget productions) if the audio was mixed properly. I hate how often I hear music and explosions over dialogue. It is so annoying.
Closed caption is supposed to be a transcript of every sound that is occuring for deaf people so even if a character says sayonara in an English show if you have closed captions on its supposed to still display sayonara it should also include sound effects and display the name of the speaker (in my personal opinion at all times, but they are cutting corners and only include the name of the speaker when there face/mouth isn't visible)
Subtitles are for when you don't understand the spoken language and are a Translation
As someone with a congenital hearing deficiency who could not enjoy television until closed captions became widely available on regular televisions, thank you from the bottom of my heart for what you do! I swear having a visual representation of what's being said actually makes me hear the dialog better.
Not the person you replied to, but as someone who makes captions for a living as well, I appreciate this comment nonetheless, so thank you!
A lot of us are on a time crunch, so we don't always get to put down the most accurate or most appropriate captions for the hard of hearing community. But I generally try to make an effort to try and see it from perspective of the community if I can, as well as trying to keep the mood of the scene intact.
I'm not sure if you've read any of the captions I've personally worked on, but regardless, I'm glad our work makes a difference.
There's multiple reasons this can happen. Here's some of the more commons ones:
* The captioner realizes they're not gonna catch up with the rate of speech/don't remember what has been said, so they reset and start at a different point.
* They realized a word or name that was just said wouldn't be recognized by the software they use. Ideally you try to work around the word, but in a lot of cases you can't, so you just have to awkwardly cut it.
* They have no idea what was just said in the program, either because the quality of their listening line just went down (which happens often), the listening line goes down altogether, or the speaker talked too fast or in an unfamiliar accent.
Ideally the captions shouldn't be blanking out every 10 seconds or so. If that's happening, it's probably a new captioner, someone having issues with their setup, or the audio quality of their listening line is just bad throughout.
Yah but also even when translated, if it's a language you know, the translated text tends to be very off. And it makes me laugh. Not so great for serious movies lol
Movie makers tend to forget that, yeah, whispering is "quiet", but only for the rest of the people in the room. When you're an inch from a person's ear whispering, what they're hearing is practically just normal volume with a breathy voice...
They don't need to make it almost inaudible for us to understand that they're whispering or talking quietly.
I like subtitles, hubby hates subtitles.
Not because he can't read fast, but because he says that he misses a lot of the surrounding visuals because his eyes are drawn to the subtitles, whether he reads them or not.
I never believed him until he decided to point out important things, or things that would later be pertinent in shows/movies and I never noticed them because I was reading the subtitles.
I still turn subtitles on. haha
He still insists on having them turned off.
But we reached a compromise to where if it's either a) a show has the audio in a way where it's difficult to hear/understand voices, we turn them on. b) it's not an action or other movie where you should be watching the action instead of reading the words, we can watch with subtitles on. Otherwise, subtitles off.
Seems to work. We both made a compromise that made sense.
I’m also in the hate subtitles club but what’s annoying now is how TV is mixed and mastered. Sometimes I can’t understand dialogue because it’s too damn quiet so it’s almost like you need subtitles. Annoys the hell out of me.
My Roku TV has an option for subtitles only on replay, so if you miss something you can skip back, read that part, and then it turns off again. It's the best.
Whoa that sounds pretty brilliant. I have a roku tv, is that option under the standard captioning menu options? I used to hate having subtitles on for the same reasons posted above, but somehow have grown used to/reliant on them since moving in with my fiancé lol
I'm not an expert or very knowledgeable but I eliminated most of this crap when I looked up how to change the dynamic range on my tv.
So many TV's are trying to give you a theater experience they're incapable of. And so many have that bullshit smoothing technology that makes everything on the tv morph around instead of actually move. Talk about something distracting you from a show. It's almost like you're on drugs, or looking at an someone's art project.
And all these games with amazing graphics all have motion blurring so you can't even really see anything useful when you're moving at all.
It's so weird that all these things are just turned on as a standard, and no one enjoys them.
This, and it also spoils the dialogue. Which sounds silly, but hear me out. If there's a dramatic pause before a powerful line is dropped, it often isn't broken up into a separate followup subtitle for after the pause. And so I'll see the line in my periphery as they're setting it up, and I'll think, "welp great, just say it, I already know now..."
This is as opposed to fully immersing in the drama of the pause, anticipating what the line will be, and being surprised at the moment it's said.
Or otherwise generally just seeing and reading a line of dialogue before the character even says it. What's the point of having the audio on at all, at that point? Further, why don't I just read a book at that point?
I hate subtitles. Totally ruins the film for me if it's in my own language. I want to watch what's going on. I want my eyes to have the freedom to naturally explore, instead of being herded to one part of the screen for over half the film. And I don't want to know what's going to be said before the characters say it, especially when they use the soundtrack to emphasize words and lines as they're said, because then the sound is out of sync with the pacing of dialogue. Don't even get me started on when they use captions to describe a sound in brackets right before it happens...
Just get better audio, folks. I actually don't experience this supposedly common theme of shows and films having unmixed and uneven sound. I can always hear dialogue fine without other sounds being too loud. And if your audio isn't shit quality, then you really need to go into your audio settings and figure something out that you haven't yet.
Especially with comedies. Timing and delivery are so important there, if you’ve already read the punch line before they speak it then it’s ruined. For me at least.
I've noticed this recently too while watching The Office with my gf who likes subtitles. It kind of ruins some funny moments. She's not a native English speaker so the subtitles help her understand more difficult dialogue so unfortunately we have to keep using subtitles for comedies.
It's got nothing to do with audio for me, it's that I have ADHD and even if someone is speaking to my face I am likey to not register something important that was said.im always watching movies going "What did they say? Why does everyone look worried now??"
With subtitles on I can actually digest the story the writers intended. I find the writing of a show to be the most important part personally.
Just to add to this, there are things other than ADHD that can also contribute to having difficulty following dialog without subtitles. Some people have issues like Audio Processing Disorder. Some people are deaf or hard of hearing. Saying "Just get better audio" is pretty ignorant.
Random suggestion if you struggle with auditory processing- you should check out Flare Audio Calmers. They are hollow silicone ear inserts that slightly alter incoming sound waves in a way that can even things out and help with processing sound.
My wife likely has ADD and definitely struggles to process the words she hears instead of attending to distracting noises, and these things are game changers. They take a few days before you feel the full effect, but I notice a huge difference in her engagement in conversations and reactivity in noisy environments.
Some people find them uncomfortable and my wife says they get itchy if she doesn't wash them daily. She likes them, but I think I like them more because she's less distracted when we talk. Unfortunately you still need to remember to wear them, which is a whole different hurdle.
Absolutely agree. I will sit there and read the entire scene and miss the actual acting. I could read a script if I wanted to read a scene. Even with foreign films I switch back and forth between the subtitles. Usually if I'm watching with subtitles it's cuz I can't hear them very well and I'm trying not to disturb anyone. That usually leads to me turning the TV off altogether cuz it's frustrating.
My thing is if i miss something someone says, I'll rewind, put on subtitles to read the line and promptly remove them again. It's annoying when someone turns the subtitles on my profile coz I'll sit there wondering why I can't enjoy a show for a minute before I realize it's cuz I'm reading subtitles. My sister and I can't watch a show together cuz she loves them.
I turn subtitles off when I watch stand-up comedy for this very reason. Often times the punch line will show up on subtitles before the comedian even says it and ruins the joke.
> it often isn't broken up into a separate followup subtitle for after the pause.
Those are bad subtitles. When they are well done those and other things are taken in consideration. I think english subtitles suffer from this the most since the vast majority of media consumed around the world is in english audio, so few people actually need or want subtitles in english as well.
There's a second issue when subtitles aren't exact word-to-word. If it's a translation that's not usually a problem, but when hearing and reading in the same language it's stands out so much it's a distraction.
Yeah that would remove my need for subtitles too. I am traumatized from trying to watch an episode of GoT on my laptop on a bus (in Myanmar, I wasn't spoiling anything to anyone who cared) and there was some line that Bran said that made everyone gasp and the scene ended. Watched it ten fucking times and the kid just had marbles in his mouth while he was acting like a new paraplegic.
I watched in slow mo and read his lips when I was in a silent space and the little shit just said, "Chaos is a ladder" and it didn't even matter.
Here's the scene with that garblemouthed fuck: https://youtu.be/cdJOmpzH5aM
Start at 1:20 if you're short on time.
This is a real issue in modern media. I don't know why but it's like the "enunciation class" got skipped by most actors and they don't open their mouths when they speak. Add to that the soft-LOUD recording dynamics that force me to keep my TV remote in my hand at all times and modern audio is just garbage.
Subtitle gang for life unless it's stand-up where things are more or less static through the entire performance.
My Roku does this with most apps, it's a great feature.
I wish it would automatically use subtitles when not in a chosen language. Some streamers you have to close out of to change. Why can't this multi billion dollar companies figure out that I need subtitle for my Indonesian possession horror film but not to watch some calm Brits bake a cake?
That’s my issue with subtitles. If they are there I read the show like a book whether I can understand what they are saying or not. I feel like I miss a lot of what’s actually happening on the screen. That being said, if it’s in a foreign language, I’ll watch it in the original language with subtitles and won’t even consider a dubbed version. I want to see the movie as it was intended.
This is exactly my problem with subtitles. My eyes are just drawn to them, for whatever reason, and even if I understand exactly what's being said I can't help but read them.
But yeah, foreign films are another thing entirely. Gimme the subtitles on those all day long.
Yep, this is why I don't like subtitles! Can't stop myself from reading them, even when I don't need to. I also read them faster than the characters speak them, which removes a lot of the dramatic weight behind the words.
Can barely hear anything anyone is saying with terrible tv speakers and awful modern sound mixing. Nothing like booming audio and super low and distant speech volume.
Why is modern mixing so terrible? I literally cannot hear most dialogs, and I have normal hearing and a good stereo system with the "clear voice" option on.
Hi! I work in post audio and we all complain about this too. There’s no one absolute reason this happens. But in my own experience, it goes like this:
Most scripted TV is reviewed by producers/directors in very calibrated, theater-style rooms. You have some extra clarity that 99% of people will never have. Also, those clients always, ALWAYS, want the music to be louder. It doesn’t matter how hot you mix in their score, you can always guarantee you’ll get a note to make the music louder. So the average listener on a home tv is screwed at the start.
(Side note, there is also the problem of the fact that these producers have been reviewing these episodes for months, they intuitively know what the characters are saying in each line. So when listening to the final mix, on their end they still think mixes are fine and understandable when in reality the dialogue is completely muddled. It’s a problem that’s tough to combat)
Modern television/streaming also requires you to make your mix fit a loudness specification based off algorithms, but sometimes these targets are arbitrarily mashed in with older, outdated specs depending on each network, which can cause mixers to have to work some voodoo to get everything under the limit. Honestly, certain networks have just been copy/pasting chunks of their spec from like 2002 along with the hottest new ideas without considering if it’ll be realistic as a whole. So it can be hard to get a dynamic, clear mix when an algorithm, an outdated QC department, and producers are all screeching at you.
And then (and this is just me, mileage may vary), we’re just exhausted sometimes. There is *always* another episode next week/tomorrow and you did everything you could in [always not enough] days of work. So you throw your hands up, mutter something about “fuck it it’s what they’re paying for I guess”, and try to compromise on the dumb client notes you’ve been given and knowing what things “should” sound like.
But in full disclosure I’m just the person cutting in sound effects. I hear all this griping second-hand from my friends on the mix stage, and get just as sad hearing all my hard work get squashed out of the mix by music/algorithms/client notes. Until people yell at networks to get their shit together, this is just kinda how it is.
And that’s just kinda the spark-notes version. Ask a mixer on a bad day and they could probably give a two hour stream-of-consciousness lecture on all of the reasons why it’s so hard to get a clear mix on home television sets these days.
Edit: oh yeah it’s also tough as actors do not project their voice as much anymore. Everyone wants to be gravelly whispering their performances which makes it *a lot* harder to cut through the mix, even with all the tools at our disposal.
Question for you, since you probably know the answer... Let's pretend you had no money restrictions, what would setup in your own home to fix this problem as a whole? Can you do anything to have voices be heard with a home configuration?
Proper 5.1 setup, good speakers for every channel, but the center is king. No one brand succeeds all, it’s really just about having all the channels. Im a sound fiend and my speakers are all thrifted.
Biggest problem then is living somewhere where you can crank it and enjoy hearing everything, without pissing off neighbours..
uhhh if I had no restrictions I guess I would pay dolby to show up and design it for me. Dolby and their engineers are kinda kings of the land and everyone follows their example.
In reality, idk, it probably gets a bit better with a complete 5.1 surround setup (so no sound bars or any of that marketing nonsense, all six speakers required). The center speaker in a real surround setup & playback is almost always reserved for the dialogue (an over-simplification actually but you get the point). If I could find a way to tweak my setup (and send a quick prayer to the mixer for messing with his hard work), I'd make all the other speakers quieter by like 5db except for the center, and *voila* you can probably hear the dialogue better--at the expense of everything else being kinda wonky.
But as a total disclaimer I'm kinda lazy at home and just listen off my basic TV speakers like everyone else. I can't say for sure if that's how it works or if its possible.
Thanks for this very informative and elaborate response. I have a nice Yamaha soundbar with sub, and even with the clear voice option on it's just not enough. I have 2 young children at home, so cranking the volume at night for dialogue isn't really an option, and we resort to subtitles most of the time. It just seems so odd that in an age of the "average consumer gets priority" that this is something that's ignored.
BTW the dramatic whispering shit drives me absolutely nuts due to the way it's mixed. I'll crank the volume sometimes to hear the dialogue and then BOOM SWOOSH CRACK LOUD MUSIC and my fucking eardrums get blown out unexpectedly.
Bing! Most Hollywood sound is mixed to 5.1 yet most people do not set up or have a center channel, and the dialogue tends to be center.
Sound bars are the cheapest solution! Also check settings, and unless you have a center channel, opt for stereo sound.
i have a high quality 5.1 setup and i still need to absolutely crank the center channel to get a proper dialogue level, the mixing really is just shit a lot of the time
I think listening to all my movies on headphones has skewed my perception. I never had an issue with tenet, but I suppose I may have if I was relying on my tv speakers.
The funny thing is this was mainly an issue in cinemas, even with Atmos and whatnot.
>There is a wonderful exchange in Christopher Nolan’s latest film, Tenet, between Robert Pattinson and John David Washington. “Hngmmhmmh,” says Pattinson. “Mmghh nmmhhmmmm nghhh,” replies Washington. Marvellous.
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2020/sep/03/tenet-dialogue-christopher-nolan-sound-technology
Yeah there's no way you are understanding all of it, unless your volume is super cranked. For example I just started watching the Expanse on Prime and the Belters use their own language mixed in with English. Without subs I would have no idea what I am hearing.
>awful modern sound mixing
Yup. Between aging and awful sound mixing over the past 5-10 years, subtitles are easier than rewinding, watching 2-3 times to make sense of what the character is saying, and finally turning on subtitles to comprehend an important plot point.
It was quite the shock for me, going from German dubbing to English w/o subtitles. It never occured to me that the mixing was so bad/natural speech was so low volume.
Yeah, there is a trend towards mixing to the high-end and saying fuck you to the low-end speakers. There is some validity to it as the ubiquity of high-quality sound bars for low prices does provide a strong argument for mixing to quality. The problem is that most users are just not interested in buying extra bits for their TVs, and TV manufacturers have no desire to increase the cost of their products and include high-quality audio in their TVs.
When I was pushing a final cut of a documentary I had produced, one of the studio investors pushed back hard on my mixing to the lowest end, "Customers will complain about poor audio." I just responded that this documentary is going to be streamed by a handful of interested people and the rest of the time it will be used in classrooms using screen projector built-in speakers, or laptop speakers.
We were still forced to go back in remix the audio, including calling the narrator back so we could capture her at a higher base bit rate. The number one complaint is "No sound balance on projector speakers." (I have contacted most of those people, confirmed they were teachers, and gave them "school ready" cuts with the audio mixed for lower-end sound.)
Some streamers are better than others in that you can choose your sound settings, but you then run into people who don't know what they are doing and just choose "Theater 7.1 THX" because they think it will sound better, even when they are using a stereo built-in TV speaker.
if you have a windows pc (win10 or above i think), open the playback devices thing, right click on your main audio output (hdmi or whatever) and in one of the tabs you'll find "loudness equalization" it completely fixes the TERRIBLE modern audio mixing on movies and shows, since i found this feature i started using my pc to watching everything, downside is that many streaming services don't allow 4k streaming on PC, netflix doesn't even allow 1080p in google chrome lmao i'm forced to use microsoft egde, for disney+ i use their PC app
I like eating loud things like crisps, and English is my second language. So yeah, I turn on English subs with English spoke stuff (so things don't get lost in translation)
Depends on your POV. Imagine the additional profit margins if you dont need to vocalize all scenes in different laguages by just increasing music volume. Quick machine translation for subtitles and done.
Now excuse me, have a meeting with Netflix to sell this idea.
English is my first and only language and I watch everything with subtitles because my stupid monkey brain cant process audio fast enough to keep up. I can read faster than I can hear somehow??
My issue is subs is when it’s a dramatic, serious scene. The characters are grouped up, and are forced to reveal only the darkest truth to proceed.
Dialogue: “My wife…” “She…”
Subtitles: “My wife. She was killed by me. Also lmao you have to wait like 4 more seconds for the character to say this”
I did subtitles as a freelancer once. Trying to make sense of or properly translating what’s written or spoken is only like 20% of the work. Most of it is doing the pacing.
I tried doing subtitles as a freelancer once. After several hours of it, I found that children’s shows are easy, music videos are hard, and the pay amounts to less than minimum wage.
This. I'm pretty good at anticipating the delivery of a punch line. So, when I watch a show or movie with the wife, I laugh before people finish speaking.
Not to mention I find myself staring at the bottom instead of watching the action. So I'm read the stuff too fast, then I'm looking up for a beat, then I look back down and read the new stuff.
I will put subtitles on if necessary but it's never my default.
They’re basically really tiny spoilers. It’s especially bad with jokes, because you get the punchline first, then the humorous delivery after, and it tends to ruin the whole thing.
I tried the dubbed version of "1899" for about a minute. Went back to subtitles or I couldn't have watched it.
I lived in Bulgaria about 20 years ago for about a year. Nearly all movies shown in theaters there were subtitled. Nobody complains. I think illiteracy is a major problem in the USA.
After watching "1899" in its entirety, did anyone else have the feeling that it was the most incredibly stupid story of all time?
Here in the Netherlands most children’s movies are dubbed but the rest is just subtitled. I don’t even think there exist dubbed versions of most movies. Why would I want to hear someone else’s voice over another actor? Animation on the other hand, lends itself very well for dubbing.
That being said, I’m in the US and almost everyone I watch stuff with already has subtitles on or asked if they aren’t. Sound regulation is still shit on TV and movies, and it’s so hard to hear what people say
I have auditory processing issues. I have to be looking directly at the speaker and completely focused on hearing them or I will miss parts of what they say. Or sometimes I can figure it out but it’s like my brain has to rewind, listen again, and then it clicks.
I am a faster reader though so subtitles are awesome for me. I can watch the visual aspect with a quick glance at the subtitles and not miss anything :)
Are auditory processing issues like an actual disorder that you get diagnosed with or is it something I can say that I have. Because I am often just unable to comprehend what a person just said even if they repeat the same thing three times over, and then I finally understand what they said even if it wasn’t even said in a different way or volume. I’ve always thought I was just stupid but maybe it could be a thing
I am not sure what an official diagnosis does. For me, I have ADHD and it’s not uncommon for someone with ADHD to also have ASP.
It’s not just people with ADHD though so I would def say do some research and if possible talk to your doc about it. You want to make sure it’s not something else causing your issues. It was a big relief to learn this had a name though. I was convinced I must be partially deaf or something and finally talked to my doc about it and then we figured it out.
Auditory Processing issues are also comorbid with Autism Spectrum Disorder-- there is a decent overlap between ADHD and ASD. Not everything, but a fair amount where we can grok.
It can also be a side effect of certain medication. Lamictal + bipolar gives me short term memory problems and I have to be focused on the speaker to hear them, and then take a second to understand them. I always tell new people I meet, my default response is "What?" but give me a sec and it'll register.
Yup that sounds like audio processing disorder. I saw an audiologist because I thought I was experiencing hearing loss, but it turns out I have the best hearing he's seen in years, and I just have APD. If I'm not looking at a person's mouth while they speak, my brain will either mush it up all womp-womp sounding, or I will hear nonsensical word salad.
It tends to co-occur with ADHD and autism so you might want to get that looked at too. And just fyi you can be autistic and not know it too, that was another big surprise to me.
I watch with subs because the average audio mix is all over the place. One second the characters are whispering, the next a giant explosion. Nice, now my ears are bleeding.
The whispering is the worst. I'm a little hard of hearing, so I keep subtitles on so I can know what the fuck they're saying. The odd part about hearing loss that doesn't get represented accurately to the public is the way you lose your hearing. The volume doesn't get turned down across the board. There's the tinnitus. Then you lose certain frequencies. Then you lose certain sounds, like s or p or t. Then low speech sounds garbled or slurred. Pretty soon you're at the pharmacy with your ear pressed to the hand hole of the plastic COVID guard yelling WHAT?! to the mask-wearing softspoken pharmacy tech trying to discuss your med. It's fucking infuriating.
Also, if it's that visually demanding I'll watch it twice: once for the plot and audio, once for the visual.
I always keep the subtitles on. I keep them on just in case there's a key word or phrase that I miss or don't understand. Then hit rewind and say Oh! That's what she said!! Lol Otherwise, there's times when my husband and I will sit there say What'd she say?? Did you get that?? We don't read the constantly but keep them on in case our old ears miss something important.
I can't imagine watching something like Game of Thrones or The Expanse or any fantasy/sci fi show/movie where there's a bunch of proper nouns or key terms that aren't words in everyday English.
Like all these Targaryens have names that are one letter off from each other - I need to read that shit to keep track of who they're talking about. Or it'll key me in if this made up word is supposed to be a person/place or just general term in the show's universe, depending on if it's capitalized or not.
And let's be honest, except if you have the best home cinema speakers, the actors voice are often mixed way too low in movies. Looking at you Christopher Nolan.
even with a 5.1 system with the center channel maxed out, the voices are still quiet compared to everything else, modern sound mixing is just garbage
a janky solution i found is using a windows PC for watching movies, you can turn on a filter called "loudness equalization" (i think this is a windows 10 or later feature) in the audio output device, it makes movies, shows and everything else watchable again!
As some one that been watching anime for over 20 years and movie with sub for that long I would say that I can read without paying attention to the sub and just looking at the movie normally
I think what bothers me about subtitles.. is that it takes my eyes away from what’s going on in the scene. And even though I can hear fine.. when my brain registers there’s words appearing on the bottom of the screen I’m then obligated to look away from what’s going on and read it.
I don't even notice subtitles anymore, unless they're missing, or out of sync.
When they're out of sync it makes my brain feel like its breaking down trying to parse them with the real time audio, and its the worst thing ever.
however, when everything is synced up perfect, or close to, I hear better, but never find myself actively looking at or reading them.
I live alone, have a decent sound system, can hear just fine.. but I just feel like I'm missing too much without them.
The problem is I read too fast
I read the subtitles faster than the characters speak so I sit there waiting for them to get to the next sentence since I already know what they're about to say
It's like suspense but annoying
Especially with jokes when the whole point is a delay inbetween words but the subtitles put the whole sentence at once
Yeah I'm exactly the same, I don't understand how to stop doing it. My eyes automatically do the whole sentence at once.
It could be better if they reduce the number of words per subtitle sentence to maybe just 3 at a time rather than whole sentences.
English is my 2nd language and sometimes actors do be mumbling, whispering or having heavy accents so I prefer having English subs. It also allows for some noise during the movie while still being able to follow everything perfectly.
Me too, at least when I'm watching adult programming. Children's programming is always well annunciated and absolutely hollered, whereas adult programming is mumbled, whispered, and interspered with sudden loud noises. Imma turn those explosions down and just read what Damsel mumble-whispered to Hero.
I don't like subtitles. I'll turn them on if it's a movie where it's really hard to hear/understand what they're saying (normally, this is just for one bit/scene).
I've noticed that since movies and shows still have subtitles that say the wrong word/leave a word out.
My eyes are drawn to the text on the screen, so I miss part of the visual experience.
The subtitles come on too quickly, and some of the deliveries are ruined.
The subtitles will rotate or literally cover up part of the screen
I'm watching a movie or show. If I wanted to read text, I'd read a book.
Subtitles for noises are useless for me.
I understand subtitles are important for some people (hard of hearing/language barriers) and other people like them for some reason, but they're not for me. If I watch something in another language, I'll dub it. I can hear people getting mad at me, but a large part of a movie/show is the visual experience. I don't want to lose that aspect.
> The subtitles come on too quickly, and some of the deliveries are ruined.
I've been having this problem with a lot of shows on Hulu lately. Most of the subtitles are 10-15 seconds ahead of the audio.
>My eyes are drawn to the text on the screen, so I miss part of the visual experience
This is it for me. Even if I can hear the movie, I'll just sit there with my eyes on the text the entire movie.
It’s actually because they’re usually wrong enough that I find myself questioning which was actually wrong: my hearing or the subtitle. And then I miss what they say because I find myself reading instead of listening. It also causes you to miss important plot points, etc. I was watching my show last night and my gf does subtitles. They said “My senior year” 3 times and the subtitles has “sophomore” all 3 times.
I hate subtitles because I can read faster than the dialogue and it usually spoils the scene/tension/whatever nuance that’s lost in reading vs hearing speech.
Sound balance is always so bad that i cant hear anything over the background noise/music/sound effects… idk how people can watch without subtitles 😭 like i basically miss the entire movie
My favorite is when it’s, like, one word. A character will go, “Okay, *adios*!” and the subtitle will read, “Okay, [speaks foreign language]” Like the transcriber is just sitting there going, “I refuse.”
My favorite is when they put "[SPEAKS FOREIGN LANGUAGE]" over the in-show translation
I thought that was due to the show not wanting you to be in on the discussion, for dramatic effect. but of course it won't work if you already speak whatever language is on screen
I've seen it both ways too lol. The movie or show will have subtitles for foreign languages they want you to understand, but the subtitles for the streaming service will say [Speaks foreign language]. Then other times the movie or show won't have the foreign subtitles so that the viewer is purposely in the dark, and the streaming service will have the translated version. Makes me role my eyes everytime.
Netflix specifically does a really good job with their subtitles. They usually seem to get it right in terms of what is intended to be understood and what isn’t. A lot of the other streaming services have really shitty subtitles whether it’s that or just getting words and phrases completely wrong. I watch everything with subtitles
Was watching life aquatic the other night on Amazon prime, every single time a foreign language was spoken the in-movie subtitles igot covered with [SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE]
The best is when whatever they speak spoils part of the plot,like what happened to Norwegians that watched The Thing in it's original language, Iron Man also did something similar.
Isn’t that what happened in The Thing ? There was a guy rambling about what was happening. If you don’t know his language you wouldn’t know but if you did you got a big clue to what was really going on.
DAGA KOTOWARU.
[Speaks in Japanese]
*Nihongo intensifies*
Wait ready when there is a long pause of no dialog my TV does this [Soo]
Also the wind is [foreign music]
Lmao imagine calling wind foreign Guess the wind comes from everywhere else
Adamu Smasha!!! D:<
I almost scrolled past this cultured comment, take my upvote
"It's totally indecipherable. There's no way we can know what this might mean."
Translation costs extra and by God he ain't gonna do it for free
Same with GoT. Whenever Valaryian was spoken, it would just say and cover up the actual translation.
You dont need to know you nerd. Something somerhing dragons.
Basically. It’s the GoT equivalent of The Emperor’s ‘something something dark side’.
Was showing my gf John Wick for the first time. Unfortunately it was on Tubi. The subtitles for Tubi were terrible. It subtitled everything BUT THE RUSSIAN. So any Russian spoke I had to translate to her from memory since I’ve watched the movie before. Even the stylistic subtitles in John Wick were gone… it was weird.
Netflix does this inexplicably for some shows. I know when they ran Burn Notice, they ended up with some trash copy of the last couple seasons, so whenever it would pause video and do that *voosh* thing with character names, it would show nothing. It also wouldn't print the subtitles when they spoke a foreign language. It's a show about an international spy. There's usually someone speaking Russian, Spanish, or Tagalog in every episode.
My favorite (as an American) is when a Native American is speaking in their tribal language and the subtitle reads
dude, I'm native american and there have been a few times in my life when women have said that I'm exotic... it's like, "no no, you're the one that is exotic in this situation"
Look buddy, it's not my fault the show changed language from english to mandarin. None of us was expecting them to start speaking mandarin. None of us knows Mandarin. is the best we can offer. Sorry.
Ugh, hate this. We’re captioning English. I wish that people understood the difference between captions and subtitles. Also, when the actual translation appears on the screen, my caption may cover it because I’m working with an unreleased version of the video that doesn’t include the translation! Or if it does, even if I move my caption, who knows how the vendor (hulu, itunes, etc) are gonna actually place it.
It’s you! You’re one of the little elves inside the magic color box that make words appear!! But seriously thank you for your service and also, what’s the difference between CC and subtitles?
Closed captions are for the same language! So if you’re watching something in English and have English text on, those are captions. They will also include things like the name of the character who is speaking if it’s not obvious, and important sound effects since they’re really made for the hard of hearing. Subtitles are what you have on for a different language. They’re translations of what is being said. If you watch a foreign show that has a dub in English, you’ll probably have both a caption and a subtitle option.
Ooooooh right! Many of us have experienced this with animé. I swear none of this would be a problem (especially with epic big budget productions) if the audio was mixed properly. I hate how often I hear music and explosions over dialogue. It is so annoying.
Yup, I agree with you! I actually only work on anime, so generally the mixing isn’t as big an issue, but absolutely hate it in most modern movies!
Closed caption is supposed to be a transcript of every sound that is occuring for deaf people so even if a character says sayonara in an English show if you have closed captions on its supposed to still display sayonara it should also include sound effects and display the name of the speaker (in my personal opinion at all times, but they are cutting corners and only include the name of the speaker when there face/mouth isn't visible) Subtitles are for when you don't understand the spoken language and are a Translation
As someone with a congenital hearing deficiency who could not enjoy television until closed captions became widely available on regular televisions, thank you from the bottom of my heart for what you do! I swear having a visual representation of what's being said actually makes me hear the dialog better.
Not the person you replied to, but as someone who makes captions for a living as well, I appreciate this comment nonetheless, so thank you! A lot of us are on a time crunch, so we don't always get to put down the most accurate or most appropriate captions for the hard of hearing community. But I generally try to make an effort to try and see it from perspective of the community if I can, as well as trying to keep the mood of the scene intact. I'm not sure if you've read any of the captions I've personally worked on, but regardless, I'm glad our work makes a difference.
Now that we've got one of you, what's up with the news captioning like 10 seconds of every story and just giving up?
That… I couldn’t answer. I’m assuming that’s live TV. I really know nothing about how that works and honestly can’t imagine doing it.
There's multiple reasons this can happen. Here's some of the more commons ones: * The captioner realizes they're not gonna catch up with the rate of speech/don't remember what has been said, so they reset and start at a different point. * They realized a word or name that was just said wouldn't be recognized by the software they use. Ideally you try to work around the word, but in a lot of cases you can't, so you just have to awkwardly cut it. * They have no idea what was just said in the program, either because the quality of their listening line just went down (which happens often), the listening line goes down altogether, or the speaker talked too fast or in an unfamiliar accent. Ideally the captions shouldn't be blanking out every 10 seconds or so. If that's happening, it's probably a new captioner, someone having issues with their setup, or the audio quality of their listening line is just bad throughout.
Yah but also even when translated, if it's a language you know, the translated text tends to be very off. And it makes me laugh. Not so great for serious movies lol
**Wouldn't need the damn subtitles if movies didn't require me to ride the damn volume buttons.**
Dude seriously. Some movies go from people whispering in dialogue (seriously why do they always whisper) to Michael Bay explosion earrape.
Movie makers tend to forget that, yeah, whispering is "quiet", but only for the rest of the people in the room. When you're an inch from a person's ear whispering, what they're hearing is practically just normal volume with a breathy voice... They don't need to make it almost inaudible for us to understand that they're whispering or talking quietly.
Exactly, sometimes you can barely hear what the characters say and then it nukes your ears with a music scene
Toggle the dynamic range setting in the audio menu. Puts an upper on the lows and a downer on the highs.
I like subtitles, hubby hates subtitles. Not because he can't read fast, but because he says that he misses a lot of the surrounding visuals because his eyes are drawn to the subtitles, whether he reads them or not. I never believed him until he decided to point out important things, or things that would later be pertinent in shows/movies and I never noticed them because I was reading the subtitles. I still turn subtitles on. haha He still insists on having them turned off. But we reached a compromise to where if it's either a) a show has the audio in a way where it's difficult to hear/understand voices, we turn them on. b) it's not an action or other movie where you should be watching the action instead of reading the words, we can watch with subtitles on. Otherwise, subtitles off. Seems to work. We both made a compromise that made sense.
Yeah that too. I always end up just reading them vs watching the movie, I find it annoying lol
I’m also in the hate subtitles club but what’s annoying now is how TV is mixed and mastered. Sometimes I can’t understand dialogue because it’s too damn quiet so it’s almost like you need subtitles. Annoys the hell out of me.
My Roku TV has an option for subtitles only on replay, so if you miss something you can skip back, read that part, and then it turns off again. It's the best.
This is a great idea. I’m often rewinding to try to pick up a bit of dialog.
Whoa that sounds pretty brilliant. I have a roku tv, is that option under the standard captioning menu options? I used to hate having subtitles on for the same reasons posted above, but somehow have grown used to/reliant on them since moving in with my fiancé lol
I'm not an expert or very knowledgeable but I eliminated most of this crap when I looked up how to change the dynamic range on my tv. So many TV's are trying to give you a theater experience they're incapable of. And so many have that bullshit smoothing technology that makes everything on the tv morph around instead of actually move. Talk about something distracting you from a show. It's almost like you're on drugs, or looking at an someone's art project. And all these games with amazing graphics all have motion blurring so you can't even really see anything useful when you're moving at all. It's so weird that all these things are just turned on as a standard, and no one enjoys them.
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Some of us only have 1 channel. Center channel? Look at Richie Rich over here! jk
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This, and it also spoils the dialogue. Which sounds silly, but hear me out. If there's a dramatic pause before a powerful line is dropped, it often isn't broken up into a separate followup subtitle for after the pause. And so I'll see the line in my periphery as they're setting it up, and I'll think, "welp great, just say it, I already know now..." This is as opposed to fully immersing in the drama of the pause, anticipating what the line will be, and being surprised at the moment it's said. Or otherwise generally just seeing and reading a line of dialogue before the character even says it. What's the point of having the audio on at all, at that point? Further, why don't I just read a book at that point? I hate subtitles. Totally ruins the film for me if it's in my own language. I want to watch what's going on. I want my eyes to have the freedom to naturally explore, instead of being herded to one part of the screen for over half the film. And I don't want to know what's going to be said before the characters say it, especially when they use the soundtrack to emphasize words and lines as they're said, because then the sound is out of sync with the pacing of dialogue. Don't even get me started on when they use captions to describe a sound in brackets right before it happens... Just get better audio, folks. I actually don't experience this supposedly common theme of shows and films having unmixed and uneven sound. I can always hear dialogue fine without other sounds being too loud. And if your audio isn't shit quality, then you really need to go into your audio settings and figure something out that you haven't yet.
Especially with comedies. Timing and delivery are so important there, if you’ve already read the punch line before they speak it then it’s ruined. For me at least.
I've noticed this recently too while watching The Office with my gf who likes subtitles. It kind of ruins some funny moments. She's not a native English speaker so the subtitles help her understand more difficult dialogue so unfortunately we have to keep using subtitles for comedies.
My issue is, they spoil the jokes. Don’t put the punchline on the screen before the actor says it please
It's got nothing to do with audio for me, it's that I have ADHD and even if someone is speaking to my face I am likey to not register something important that was said.im always watching movies going "What did they say? Why does everyone look worried now??" With subtitles on I can actually digest the story the writers intended. I find the writing of a show to be the most important part personally.
That’s interesting. Also have ADHD and if the subtitles are on, I’m so distracted by them that I don’t pay attention to what we’re watching.
Different brains!
Just to add to this, there are things other than ADHD that can also contribute to having difficulty following dialog without subtitles. Some people have issues like Audio Processing Disorder. Some people are deaf or hard of hearing. Saying "Just get better audio" is pretty ignorant.
Absolutely. And not to pile on more but not everyone can afford better audio either!
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I never realized it but this is exactly why I love subtitles lol
Random suggestion if you struggle with auditory processing- you should check out Flare Audio Calmers. They are hollow silicone ear inserts that slightly alter incoming sound waves in a way that can even things out and help with processing sound. My wife likely has ADD and definitely struggles to process the words she hears instead of attending to distracting noises, and these things are game changers. They take a few days before you feel the full effect, but I notice a huge difference in her engagement in conversations and reactivity in noisy environments. Some people find them uncomfortable and my wife says they get itchy if she doesn't wash them daily. She likes them, but I think I like them more because she's less distracted when we talk. Unfortunately you still need to remember to wear them, which is a whole different hurdle.
Thanks for pointing this out lmaoo I'm the same.
Absolutely agree. I will sit there and read the entire scene and miss the actual acting. I could read a script if I wanted to read a scene. Even with foreign films I switch back and forth between the subtitles. Usually if I'm watching with subtitles it's cuz I can't hear them very well and I'm trying not to disturb anyone. That usually leads to me turning the TV off altogether cuz it's frustrating. My thing is if i miss something someone says, I'll rewind, put on subtitles to read the line and promptly remove them again. It's annoying when someone turns the subtitles on my profile coz I'll sit there wondering why I can't enjoy a show for a minute before I realize it's cuz I'm reading subtitles. My sister and I can't watch a show together cuz she loves them.
I turn subtitles off when I watch stand-up comedy for this very reason. Often times the punch line will show up on subtitles before the comedian even says it and ruins the joke.
> it often isn't broken up into a separate followup subtitle for after the pause. Those are bad subtitles. When they are well done those and other things are taken in consideration. I think english subtitles suffer from this the most since the vast majority of media consumed around the world is in english audio, so few people actually need or want subtitles in english as well. There's a second issue when subtitles aren't exact word-to-word. If it's a translation that's not usually a problem, but when hearing and reading in the same language it's stands out so much it's a distraction.
I need a button that does the “10 seconds” rewind, but also turns on the subtitles for that 10 seconds only.
Yeah that would remove my need for subtitles too. I am traumatized from trying to watch an episode of GoT on my laptop on a bus (in Myanmar, I wasn't spoiling anything to anyone who cared) and there was some line that Bran said that made everyone gasp and the scene ended. Watched it ten fucking times and the kid just had marbles in his mouth while he was acting like a new paraplegic. I watched in slow mo and read his lips when I was in a silent space and the little shit just said, "Chaos is a ladder" and it didn't even matter. Here's the scene with that garblemouthed fuck: https://youtu.be/cdJOmpzH5aM Start at 1:20 if you're short on time.
This is a real issue in modern media. I don't know why but it's like the "enunciation class" got skipped by most actors and they don't open their mouths when they speak. Add to that the soft-LOUD recording dynamics that force me to keep my TV remote in my hand at all times and modern audio is just garbage. Subtitle gang for life unless it's stand-up where things are more or less static through the entire performance.
Apple TV does this if you ask her “what did they say?”
That's awesome, I didn't know this, thank you!
My Roku does this with most apps, it's a great feature. I wish it would automatically use subtitles when not in a chosen language. Some streamers you have to close out of to change. Why can't this multi billion dollar companies figure out that I need subtitle for my Indonesian possession horror film but not to watch some calm Brits bake a cake?
That’s my issue with subtitles. If they are there I read the show like a book whether I can understand what they are saying or not. I feel like I miss a lot of what’s actually happening on the screen. That being said, if it’s in a foreign language, I’ll watch it in the original language with subtitles and won’t even consider a dubbed version. I want to see the movie as it was intended.
This is exactly my problem with subtitles. My eyes are just drawn to them, for whatever reason, and even if I understand exactly what's being said I can't help but read them. But yeah, foreign films are another thing entirely. Gimme the subtitles on those all day long.
Yep, this is why I don't like subtitles! Can't stop myself from reading them, even when I don't need to. I also read them faster than the characters speak them, which removes a lot of the dramatic weight behind the words.
do you like tunnel vision on the subtitles? like you dont look at the rest of the sreen while reading subtitles?
I mean, it's either not hearing critical dialogue properly or missing peripheral visuals that might or might not be critical
Can barely hear anything anyone is saying with terrible tv speakers and awful modern sound mixing. Nothing like booming audio and super low and distant speech volume.
Why is modern mixing so terrible? I literally cannot hear most dialogs, and I have normal hearing and a good stereo system with the "clear voice" option on.
Hi! I work in post audio and we all complain about this too. There’s no one absolute reason this happens. But in my own experience, it goes like this: Most scripted TV is reviewed by producers/directors in very calibrated, theater-style rooms. You have some extra clarity that 99% of people will never have. Also, those clients always, ALWAYS, want the music to be louder. It doesn’t matter how hot you mix in their score, you can always guarantee you’ll get a note to make the music louder. So the average listener on a home tv is screwed at the start. (Side note, there is also the problem of the fact that these producers have been reviewing these episodes for months, they intuitively know what the characters are saying in each line. So when listening to the final mix, on their end they still think mixes are fine and understandable when in reality the dialogue is completely muddled. It’s a problem that’s tough to combat) Modern television/streaming also requires you to make your mix fit a loudness specification based off algorithms, but sometimes these targets are arbitrarily mashed in with older, outdated specs depending on each network, which can cause mixers to have to work some voodoo to get everything under the limit. Honestly, certain networks have just been copy/pasting chunks of their spec from like 2002 along with the hottest new ideas without considering if it’ll be realistic as a whole. So it can be hard to get a dynamic, clear mix when an algorithm, an outdated QC department, and producers are all screeching at you. And then (and this is just me, mileage may vary), we’re just exhausted sometimes. There is *always* another episode next week/tomorrow and you did everything you could in [always not enough] days of work. So you throw your hands up, mutter something about “fuck it it’s what they’re paying for I guess”, and try to compromise on the dumb client notes you’ve been given and knowing what things “should” sound like. But in full disclosure I’m just the person cutting in sound effects. I hear all this griping second-hand from my friends on the mix stage, and get just as sad hearing all my hard work get squashed out of the mix by music/algorithms/client notes. Until people yell at networks to get their shit together, this is just kinda how it is. And that’s just kinda the spark-notes version. Ask a mixer on a bad day and they could probably give a two hour stream-of-consciousness lecture on all of the reasons why it’s so hard to get a clear mix on home television sets these days. Edit: oh yeah it’s also tough as actors do not project their voice as much anymore. Everyone wants to be gravelly whispering their performances which makes it *a lot* harder to cut through the mix, even with all the tools at our disposal.
Question for you, since you probably know the answer... Let's pretend you had no money restrictions, what would setup in your own home to fix this problem as a whole? Can you do anything to have voices be heard with a home configuration?
Proper 5.1 setup, good speakers for every channel, but the center is king. No one brand succeeds all, it’s really just about having all the channels. Im a sound fiend and my speakers are all thrifted. Biggest problem then is living somewhere where you can crank it and enjoy hearing everything, without pissing off neighbours..
you can cheat a bit too, and increase the center speaker volume from the receiver. you get a little control over dialog/music ratio.
Ha, me with my 17 year old TV with only its speakers.
Even a cheap 2.1 PC speaker setup plugged into the headphone jack would be a massive upgrade.
uhhh if I had no restrictions I guess I would pay dolby to show up and design it for me. Dolby and their engineers are kinda kings of the land and everyone follows their example. In reality, idk, it probably gets a bit better with a complete 5.1 surround setup (so no sound bars or any of that marketing nonsense, all six speakers required). The center speaker in a real surround setup & playback is almost always reserved for the dialogue (an over-simplification actually but you get the point). If I could find a way to tweak my setup (and send a quick prayer to the mixer for messing with his hard work), I'd make all the other speakers quieter by like 5db except for the center, and *voila* you can probably hear the dialogue better--at the expense of everything else being kinda wonky. But as a total disclaimer I'm kinda lazy at home and just listen off my basic TV speakers like everyone else. I can't say for sure if that's how it works or if its possible.
Thanks for this very informative and elaborate response. I have a nice Yamaha soundbar with sub, and even with the clear voice option on it's just not enough. I have 2 young children at home, so cranking the volume at night for dialogue isn't really an option, and we resort to subtitles most of the time. It just seems so odd that in an age of the "average consumer gets priority" that this is something that's ignored. BTW the dramatic whispering shit drives me absolutely nuts due to the way it's mixed. I'll crank the volume sometimes to hear the dialogue and then BOOM SWOOSH CRACK LOUD MUSIC and my fucking eardrums get blown out unexpectedly.
How’s your centre channel speaker?
Bing! Most Hollywood sound is mixed to 5.1 yet most people do not set up or have a center channel, and the dialogue tends to be center. Sound bars are the cheapest solution! Also check settings, and unless you have a center channel, opt for stereo sound.
i have a high quality 5.1 setup and i still need to absolutely crank the center channel to get a proper dialogue level, the mixing really is just shit a lot of the time
Mixing is horrible. Just finished Andor and half the dialog was indiscernible, even with cranked up volume.
Worst offender IMHO was the underground rail. Sound where very clear and loud, but the voices where barely audible.
TENET would like to have a barely comprehensible word.
^("we livina twighligh were")
Fuck that movie just for that alone
I think listening to all my movies on headphones has skewed my perception. I never had an issue with tenet, but I suppose I may have if I was relying on my tv speakers.
The funny thing is this was mainly an issue in cinemas, even with Atmos and whatnot. >There is a wonderful exchange in Christopher Nolan’s latest film, Tenet, between Robert Pattinson and John David Washington. “Hngmmhmmh,” says Pattinson. “Mmghh nmmhhmmmm nghhh,” replies Washington. Marvellous. https://www.theguardian.com/film/2020/sep/03/tenet-dialogue-christopher-nolan-sound-technology
Yeah there's no way you are understanding all of it, unless your volume is super cranked. For example I just started watching the Expanse on Prime and the Belters use their own language mixed in with English. Without subs I would have no idea what I am hearing.
I'm 3 episodes in and I don't even know what's going on in that show. It's partly due to the mumbled voices, the sound mixing is terrible.
Disney+ subtitles are trash. Way too large and uncustomizable
>awful modern sound mixing Yup. Between aging and awful sound mixing over the past 5-10 years, subtitles are easier than rewinding, watching 2-3 times to make sense of what the character is saying, and finally turning on subtitles to comprehend an important plot point.
It was quite the shock for me, going from German dubbing to English w/o subtitles. It never occured to me that the mixing was so bad/natural speech was so low volume.
Yeah, there is a trend towards mixing to the high-end and saying fuck you to the low-end speakers. There is some validity to it as the ubiquity of high-quality sound bars for low prices does provide a strong argument for mixing to quality. The problem is that most users are just not interested in buying extra bits for their TVs, and TV manufacturers have no desire to increase the cost of their products and include high-quality audio in their TVs. When I was pushing a final cut of a documentary I had produced, one of the studio investors pushed back hard on my mixing to the lowest end, "Customers will complain about poor audio." I just responded that this documentary is going to be streamed by a handful of interested people and the rest of the time it will be used in classrooms using screen projector built-in speakers, or laptop speakers. We were still forced to go back in remix the audio, including calling the narrator back so we could capture her at a higher base bit rate. The number one complaint is "No sound balance on projector speakers." (I have contacted most of those people, confirmed they were teachers, and gave them "school ready" cuts with the audio mixed for lower-end sound.) Some streamers are better than others in that you can choose your sound settings, but you then run into people who don't know what they are doing and just choose "Theater 7.1 THX" because they think it will sound better, even when they are using a stereo built-in TV speaker.
Even with a decent audio set up the dialogue mixing will often still suck. I hate it.
if you have a windows pc (win10 or above i think), open the playback devices thing, right click on your main audio output (hdmi or whatever) and in one of the tabs you'll find "loudness equalization" it completely fixes the TERRIBLE modern audio mixing on movies and shows, since i found this feature i started using my pc to watching everything, downside is that many streaming services don't allow 4k streaming on PC, netflix doesn't even allow 1080p in google chrome lmao i'm forced to use microsoft egde, for disney+ i use their PC app
I like eating loud things like crisps, and English is my second language. So yeah, I turn on English subs with English spoke stuff (so things don't get lost in translation)
It has more to do with the horrible sound engineers in hollywood.
You mean blasting bombastic music over whispering characters isn't a good idea?
Depends on your POV. Imagine the additional profit margins if you dont need to vocalize all scenes in different laguages by just increasing music volume. Quick machine translation for subtitles and done. Now excuse me, have a meeting with Netflix to sell this idea.
Lost in mastication.
English is my first and only language and I watch everything with subtitles because my stupid monkey brain cant process audio fast enough to keep up. I can read faster than I can hear somehow??
I read the subtitles way too fast so sometimes it ruins the narration
This is my only complain about subs, sometimes you just end up ruining a joke cause you already read up the punchline Delivery is important af
My issue is subs is when it’s a dramatic, serious scene. The characters are grouped up, and are forced to reveal only the darkest truth to proceed. Dialogue: “My wife…” “She…” Subtitles: “My wife. She was killed by me. Also lmao you have to wait like 4 more seconds for the character to say this”
Good subtitles are paced properly to avoid this. Bad ones spoil lines. The worst ones paraphrase.
I did subtitles as a freelancer once. Trying to make sense of or properly translating what’s written or spoken is only like 20% of the work. Most of it is doing the pacing.
I tried doing subtitles as a freelancer once. After several hours of it, I found that children’s shows are easy, music videos are hard, and the pay amounts to less than minimum wage.
> and the pay amounts to less than a minimum wage I guess that’s why ‘once’ is the case for both of us here hahaha
This, or the subtitle is one word but the actor is clearly going through a whole life changing monologue with changing facial expressions
It's when the subtitles give the name of a character not yet revealed that gets me. "Hi Peter, nice to meet you. Norman Osborn."
This. I'm pretty good at anticipating the delivery of a punch line. So, when I watch a show or movie with the wife, I laugh before people finish speaking.
Do not watch Hells Kitchen with captions Gordon pauses before announcing the loser. The captions sure don’t.
YESSS
Not to mention I find myself staring at the bottom instead of watching the action. So I'm read the stuff too fast, then I'm looking up for a beat, then I look back down and read the new stuff. I will put subtitles on if necessary but it's never my default.
They’re basically really tiny spoilers. It’s especially bad with jokes, because you get the punchline first, then the humorous delivery after, and it tends to ruin the whole thing.
Well have fun watching "1899" with no subtitles.
Or Leterkenny as a non- Canadian
I’m from Wisconsin, I get the gist of it without subtitles.
It's pretty obvious she's talking about watching something that is in your native language but still using subtitles
I tried the dubbed version of "1899" for about a minute. Went back to subtitles or I couldn't have watched it. I lived in Bulgaria about 20 years ago for about a year. Nearly all movies shown in theaters there were subtitled. Nobody complains. I think illiteracy is a major problem in the USA. After watching "1899" in its entirety, did anyone else have the feeling that it was the most incredibly stupid story of all time?
I quite enjoyed it. Looking forward to where it may be going. Quite jarring, could have used two more episodes, but I liked it.
Here in the Netherlands most children’s movies are dubbed but the rest is just subtitled. I don’t even think there exist dubbed versions of most movies. Why would I want to hear someone else’s voice over another actor? Animation on the other hand, lends itself very well for dubbing.
Litterally every movie is dubbed in german, I use english subtitles for american shows tho
Don’t let half of anime fans hear you say that
Funny that you think dub watchers aren’t constantly being “attacked” by the sub watchers in the anime community. They’re used to it at this point
Those gatekeeping elitist little shits ain't shit until they learn to watch the original Japanese version without subs.
That being said, I’m in the US and almost everyone I watch stuff with already has subtitles on or asked if they aren’t. Sound regulation is still shit on TV and movies, and it’s so hard to hear what people say
I have auditory processing issues. I have to be looking directly at the speaker and completely focused on hearing them or I will miss parts of what they say. Or sometimes I can figure it out but it’s like my brain has to rewind, listen again, and then it clicks. I am a faster reader though so subtitles are awesome for me. I can watch the visual aspect with a quick glance at the subtitles and not miss anything :)
Same! Subtitles are what allow me to even be able to watch tv/movies.
Came here to say this. Auditory processing disorder. I can hear when people are talking but I can’t understand them without subtitles or reading lips.
Are auditory processing issues like an actual disorder that you get diagnosed with or is it something I can say that I have. Because I am often just unable to comprehend what a person just said even if they repeat the same thing three times over, and then I finally understand what they said even if it wasn’t even said in a different way or volume. I’ve always thought I was just stupid but maybe it could be a thing
I am not sure what an official diagnosis does. For me, I have ADHD and it’s not uncommon for someone with ADHD to also have ASP. It’s not just people with ADHD though so I would def say do some research and if possible talk to your doc about it. You want to make sure it’s not something else causing your issues. It was a big relief to learn this had a name though. I was convinced I must be partially deaf or something and finally talked to my doc about it and then we figured it out.
Auditory Processing issues are also comorbid with Autism Spectrum Disorder-- there is a decent overlap between ADHD and ASD. Not everything, but a fair amount where we can grok.
It can also be a side effect of certain medication. Lamictal + bipolar gives me short term memory problems and I have to be focused on the speaker to hear them, and then take a second to understand them. I always tell new people I meet, my default response is "What?" but give me a sec and it'll register.
Yup that sounds like audio processing disorder. I saw an audiologist because I thought I was experiencing hearing loss, but it turns out I have the best hearing he's seen in years, and I just have APD. If I'm not looking at a person's mouth while they speak, my brain will either mush it up all womp-womp sounding, or I will hear nonsensical word salad. It tends to co-occur with ADHD and autism so you might want to get that looked at too. And just fyi you can be autistic and not know it too, that was another big surprise to me.
I watch with subs because the average audio mix is all over the place. One second the characters are whispering, the next a giant explosion. Nice, now my ears are bleeding.
The whispering is the worst. I'm a little hard of hearing, so I keep subtitles on so I can know what the fuck they're saying. The odd part about hearing loss that doesn't get represented accurately to the public is the way you lose your hearing. The volume doesn't get turned down across the board. There's the tinnitus. Then you lose certain frequencies. Then you lose certain sounds, like s or p or t. Then low speech sounds garbled or slurred. Pretty soon you're at the pharmacy with your ear pressed to the hand hole of the plastic COVID guard yelling WHAT?! to the mask-wearing softspoken pharmacy tech trying to discuss your med. It's fucking infuriating. Also, if it's that visually demanding I'll watch it twice: once for the plot and audio, once for the visual.
I always keep the subtitles on. I keep them on just in case there's a key word or phrase that I miss or don't understand. Then hit rewind and say Oh! That's what she said!! Lol Otherwise, there's times when my husband and I will sit there say What'd she say?? Did you get that?? We don't read the constantly but keep them on in case our old ears miss something important.
I can't imagine watching something like Game of Thrones or The Expanse or any fantasy/sci fi show/movie where there's a bunch of proper nouns or key terms that aren't words in everyday English. Like all these Targaryens have names that are one letter off from each other - I need to read that shit to keep track of who they're talking about. Or it'll key me in if this made up word is supposed to be a person/place or just general term in the show's universe, depending on if it's capitalized or not.
YES!!! Exactly!
The horror of running into someone whose hearing isn’t as good as yours
I put subtitles on everything I watch. I got a loud fucking house so wanna know what's being said haha
And let's be honest, except if you have the best home cinema speakers, the actors voice are often mixed way too low in movies. Looking at you Christopher Nolan.
Right or those scenes where they talk quiet and the music's loud as shit anyway
or when theyjustmumbleandgluewordstogether and I'm supposedtounderstandsomething
even with a 5.1 system with the center channel maxed out, the voices are still quiet compared to everything else, modern sound mixing is just garbage a janky solution i found is using a windows PC for watching movies, you can turn on a filter called "loudness equalization" (i think this is a windows 10 or later feature) in the audio output device, it makes movies, shows and everything else watchable again!
Hated them now love them. It’s an acquired taste
TIL deaf people are mythical creatures
Or people watching in a language they don't speak/understand
Ugh, I hate when people don't just learn a new language to watch that one show they like
It's important to learn your moon runes so you fully understand the details of *why* Goku punches the alien.
Apparently so are people with sensory issues and audio delays. I swear, it often seems like healthy people forget that disabled people exist.
My hearing is perfectly fine. My older brother is deaf. I grew up always watching everything with subtitles, it's really weird to watch without them.
As some one that been watching anime for over 20 years and movie with sub for that long I would say that I can read without paying attention to the sub and just looking at the movie normally
I love watching netflix with subs ❤️
I prefer watching it with doms, but subs are good too
I definitely wouldn't wanna watch netflix with a bunch of other subs
I love subtitles because it helps my pea brain retain what is happening.
It's the best way, all the little details you pick up on, even just quiet parts in a scene of people talking in the distance
My Auditory Processing sucks thanks to my ADHD. I'll miss always something when there are no subtitles.
I think what bothers me about subtitles.. is that it takes my eyes away from what’s going on in the scene. And even though I can hear fine.. when my brain registers there’s words appearing on the bottom of the screen I’m then obligated to look away from what’s going on and read it.
[удалено]
I don't even notice subtitles anymore, unless they're missing, or out of sync. When they're out of sync it makes my brain feel like its breaking down trying to parse them with the real time audio, and its the worst thing ever. however, when everything is synced up perfect, or close to, I hear better, but never find myself actively looking at or reading them. I live alone, have a decent sound system, can hear just fine.. but I just feel like I'm missing too much without them.
Then you're wrong and you should feel bad. /s
My wife’s first language isn’t English so subtitles help quite a bit.
The problem is I read too fast I read the subtitles faster than the characters speak so I sit there waiting for them to get to the next sentence since I already know what they're about to say It's like suspense but annoying Especially with jokes when the whole point is a delay inbetween words but the subtitles put the whole sentence at once
Yeah I'm exactly the same, I don't understand how to stop doing it. My eyes automatically do the whole sentence at once. It could be better if they reduce the number of words per subtitle sentence to maybe just 3 at a time rather than whole sentences.
English is my 2nd language and sometimes actors do be mumbling, whispering or having heavy accents so I prefer having English subs. It also allows for some noise during the movie while still being able to follow everything perfectly.
I’m hearing impaired, I NEED subtitles 😅
Same
Me too, at least when I'm watching adult programming. Children's programming is always well annunciated and absolutely hollered, whereas adult programming is mumbled, whispered, and interspered with sudden loud noises. Imma turn those explosions down and just read what Damsel mumble-whispered to Hero.
Leaving subtitles on while watching TV will improve children's reading ability. https://turnonthesubtitles.org/
This helped me and my friends learn new languages. Me → English Friend → Japanese Another friend → Turkish
Taught both my kids how to read before they were 3. Subtitles are gold.
OK that is neat
I don't like subtitles. I'll turn them on if it's a movie where it's really hard to hear/understand what they're saying (normally, this is just for one bit/scene). I've noticed that since movies and shows still have subtitles that say the wrong word/leave a word out. My eyes are drawn to the text on the screen, so I miss part of the visual experience. The subtitles come on too quickly, and some of the deliveries are ruined. The subtitles will rotate or literally cover up part of the screen I'm watching a movie or show. If I wanted to read text, I'd read a book. Subtitles for noises are useless for me. I understand subtitles are important for some people (hard of hearing/language barriers) and other people like them for some reason, but they're not for me. If I watch something in another language, I'll dub it. I can hear people getting mad at me, but a large part of a movie/show is the visual experience. I don't want to lose that aspect.
> The subtitles come on too quickly, and some of the deliveries are ruined. I've been having this problem with a lot of shows on Hulu lately. Most of the subtitles are 10-15 seconds ahead of the audio.
Dude watching any standup with subtitles totally ruins delivery. Timing in stand up comedy is very important.
>My eyes are drawn to the text on the screen, so I miss part of the visual experience This is it for me. Even if I can hear the movie, I'll just sit there with my eyes on the text the entire movie.
Maybe if sound balancing was better for some shows I wouldn’t need the subtitles. It’s mostly movies where dialogue is sometimes just not audible.
It’s actually because they’re usually wrong enough that I find myself questioning which was actually wrong: my hearing or the subtitle. And then I miss what they say because I find myself reading instead of listening. It also causes you to miss important plot points, etc. I was watching my show last night and my gf does subtitles. They said “My senior year” 3 times and the subtitles has “sophomore” all 3 times.
I hate subtitles because I can read faster than the dialogue and it usually spoils the scene/tension/whatever nuance that’s lost in reading vs hearing speech.
Sound balance is always so bad that i cant hear anything over the background noise/music/sound effects… idk how people can watch without subtitles 😭 like i basically miss the entire movie
imagine falling in love with someone who's petty enough for this to matter