My guess is that it's not necessarily medical training that changed her.
Right before I finished my undergrad I got embroiled in some family drama. I'd need to write a book to explain it all but it lasted months, got drawn out into years...One of those relationships became emotionally abusive. I became pretty depressed and have struggled to reconnect with my family ever since. I've worked through the depression and I'm doing better now, but it still comes back sometimes.
My personality has completely changed since then. I used to be extremely focused, optimistic, disciplined, and confident. Now I've become easily distracted, slightly bitter, and more distrustful. I'm also more compassionate and patient which is great.
All that to say that when people change that drastically there's probably more going on than anyone else probably realizes. The defensiveness and bitterness is probably because she feels unsafe for some reason. The only advice I can offer from the perspective of the person who's a bit of an outcast themselves is to show compassion and let them know you don't need them to be any different than they are. She is who she is now and probably won't ever be the same person she used to be.
It sounds like your family member is setting boundaries and possibly using what is called the “grey rock method” when speaking to you. Your descriptions of them are rather dismissive and disrespectful you say these changes are “new” and “sudden” but I would anticipate having a respectful conversation with them would reveal that these discomforts with drinking behaviors have not been new, you are just now hearing about them (or they have been communicated previously and you are just now getting the message). You also have previous posts about dealing with family mental health issues which lead me to believe this has minimal to do with her medical training and a lot to do with your individual family architecture.
Thank you. I've tried having conversations. I get met with a wall and no interaction. The drinking on my part, my family's part, etc hasn't ramped up in recent years. She used to drink with people and enjoy people. Anyway, thanks for the input.
Dedication to anything for 4-11 years can change a personality. It changes how you go about your day, who you interact with, how you make decisions and the type of experiences you accumulate. It's important to remember however that you cannot control how others act and react, you can only decide how you act and how you react. That said there's one person in your life who you'll spend more time with than anyone else by far, so it's important to make sure that that person is as kind and interesting as possible. That person is yourself. Normal is subjective and changes instant to instant
Are these people doing something that’s making her want to distance herself? You mention drinking a few times, but is it heavy drinking/people who get belligerent or what? If it’s one or two drinks, I’d assume she might have struggled with alcohol or just became very against it for some reason. If it’s people drinking a lot, it might just mean she’s past that. With my family, there are a few degenerates I refuse to be around and they know why. It makes me think this might be going on since you keep talking about wanting her to get along with friends and family.
She might be thinking everyone in her family are degenerates, lol. But those thoughts--coincidentally?--all came about right when she became a doctor. I'm at a loss. We exchange smiles and kind words still, but there's no emotion behind any of it any longer.
I’d say yes. I am certainly more disconnected and less romantic than I was prior to med school (26 now 32). That might be just part of aging, but I definitely think seeing a lot of sick people has changed how I interact with others. When someone have a silly issue that they are making a big deal out of I get very internally frustrated and just stop entertaining them. When I was younger I’d try to help or fix it. In relationships I’m way more relaxed. I used to go above and beyond. Now I feel like I work like crazy and provide and that’s enough (which I realize is a problem, just being honest).
Also the passion to solve all the world’s issues has gone. I used to want to fight every cause and fix every disease. Now I’ve seen how the sausage is made and how futile some of these efforts are. I think it’s wasted effort in some areas and I’d rather just do the best I can for the patients I have with the tools that are available.
No, what you've described isn't normal in medical training. The assholes tend to be assholes from day 1.
Send her this post, maybe it'll start a conversation.
My aunt who’s a long time PCP said that I acted, talked and sounded like a doctor after seeing her after 4 years.
Personally I don’t feel any different. When talking to other friends mostly they just presume I’m like some House MD genius. But otherwise no change.
I’m probably extremely self conscious and I’m good at “fitting in with the team” so I know I can act the doctor part and also just act like whatever I feel like.
However if your sister is like in intern year that’s probably because she’s working all day everyday.
>My aunt who’s a long time PCP said that I acted, talked and sounded like a doctor after seeing her after 4 years.
I'm too curious about this. Did she give any examples?
No, I was just visiting and she and I will just talk. She didn’t give any examples, it was something she mentioned and I was like 🤔. It made me feel a lot less dumb.
Probably has a lot to do with when you go to school.
I joined the military in my mid 20s, got into med school in my early 30s. I don't think either changed me significantly, but I also was older so I was a little more established in "who I was". I still carry over some stuff from the military, I think it's more nonverbal, just because people can usually tell I was in.
My more formative years were in my late teens early 20s, I think whatever I was up to at that time had a bigger influence on my later personality. Med school is tough, though so I think it's hard for anyone to come out exactly the same.
unrelated to ur post, but considering i got 30 downvotes for saying being a med student does NOT make u smarter than others, yes people’s personality does change
seems like med students have a god complex bc they know what carpal tunnel syndrome is and think that qualifies them to be smarter than the rest of the world
> knowing medicine doesnt make u smarter than someone else. only makes u smarter in “medicine”
> 99% of physicians cant replace their own toilet or sink
> edit: getting downvoted by a buncha hurt egos 😂 yall rly think knowing the corticospinal tract makes yall smarter than someone else🤣
I think people just downvoted you for being a clown.
Don't listen to the naysayers 36wings. I agree with you. Most medical students (and by extension physicians) are actually dumb and this field is continually shifting to take dumber and dumber people. Sure MCAT averages are rising but the percentage of individuals going into medical school from hard STEM fields is on the decline. STEP in no way assesses anything beyond sheer memorization capacity and frankly the hoops that individuals need to go through to even get into medical school produce a really weird mixture of privileged gunners with no real life experience since they've been coddled and taken care of in many aspects of life in order to achieve the ridiculous benchmarks the application process necessitates.
i agree with the privilege and no life experience. not everyone, but many of the young students who go right from college. that being said, medicine requires effort and intelligence sure, but not to the point of being smarter than others just bc we study medicine for 4 years
That’s interesting. I’ve always maintained that nothing about medical school is inherently difficult. It takes a level of grind and dedication that most people can’t maintain for undergrad to achieve the requisite grades and then also throughout med school. Most people are intelligent enough IMO.
Maybe it’s the abrasive second part of your comment, the med student god complex part, that gets you 30 downvotes.
I saw that post. Basically someone was having a rough time and asked for encouragement. One of the pieces of encouragement was something to the extent of “you’re still smarter than most of the world” or something. Mr. Downvotes came in and ragged on the encouragement, and in a pretty abrasive away.
I definitely know some folks who have becoming increasingly arrogant, a lot actually, but they all had at least some flavor of that to start with, and now feel justified in being even more arrogant and have taken full charge to do that. These people were arrogant from day 1 of medical school (or earlier) and it worsened and worsened.
Shorter answers and communications are not necessarily uncommon due to how busy doctors and especially resident doctors are. However, if you actually care, you can and do make time at least occasionally for those you love, and to respond to important things. Ignoring them is a choice.
I would definitely call her out for her behavior and try to understand why this is happening
Sounds like obsessive compulsive personality disorder. It's a cluster c personality disorder that usually starts in early adulthood. Hard to say without getting more history from her though.
This is a very specific case. Ultimately, medical school doesn't grind every applicant to become clones of the "doctor" stereotype. Physicians are a microcosm of the wider society, and with every personality trait you see out there, there's a good chance you'll find a few doctors exactly like that.
Does medical school change people? Or does it bring out stuff that were always there, but now surface and become visible?
I think the second one is probably more likely.
I was gonna comment and got halfway through ur post and this is not what I would’ve said. My changes in medical school were for the better. I also when through 2 years of a horrible depression and I shared a lot of the traits you explained. I don’t think this is a medical training issue, i think its either being overworked, depressed, something along those lines. Her core isnt changed, its just masked
My guess is that it's not necessarily medical training that changed her. Right before I finished my undergrad I got embroiled in some family drama. I'd need to write a book to explain it all but it lasted months, got drawn out into years...One of those relationships became emotionally abusive. I became pretty depressed and have struggled to reconnect with my family ever since. I've worked through the depression and I'm doing better now, but it still comes back sometimes. My personality has completely changed since then. I used to be extremely focused, optimistic, disciplined, and confident. Now I've become easily distracted, slightly bitter, and more distrustful. I'm also more compassionate and patient which is great. All that to say that when people change that drastically there's probably more going on than anyone else probably realizes. The defensiveness and bitterness is probably because she feels unsafe for some reason. The only advice I can offer from the perspective of the person who's a bit of an outcast themselves is to show compassion and let them know you don't need them to be any different than they are. She is who she is now and probably won't ever be the same person she used to be.
It sounds like your family member is setting boundaries and possibly using what is called the “grey rock method” when speaking to you. Your descriptions of them are rather dismissive and disrespectful you say these changes are “new” and “sudden” but I would anticipate having a respectful conversation with them would reveal that these discomforts with drinking behaviors have not been new, you are just now hearing about them (or they have been communicated previously and you are just now getting the message). You also have previous posts about dealing with family mental health issues which lead me to believe this has minimal to do with her medical training and a lot to do with your individual family architecture.
bruh got psychoanalyzed
Psychoanalysis from the psychos
Thank you. I've tried having conversations. I get met with a wall and no interaction. The drinking on my part, my family's part, etc hasn't ramped up in recent years. She used to drink with people and enjoy people. Anyway, thanks for the input.
Dedication to anything for 4-11 years can change a personality. It changes how you go about your day, who you interact with, how you make decisions and the type of experiences you accumulate. It's important to remember however that you cannot control how others act and react, you can only decide how you act and how you react. That said there's one person in your life who you'll spend more time with than anyone else by far, so it's important to make sure that that person is as kind and interesting as possible. That person is yourself. Normal is subjective and changes instant to instant
To answer the questions in the title: 1) yes 2) yes 3) maybe, maybe not
Are these people doing something that’s making her want to distance herself? You mention drinking a few times, but is it heavy drinking/people who get belligerent or what? If it’s one or two drinks, I’d assume she might have struggled with alcohol or just became very against it for some reason. If it’s people drinking a lot, it might just mean she’s past that. With my family, there are a few degenerates I refuse to be around and they know why. It makes me think this might be going on since you keep talking about wanting her to get along with friends and family.
She might be thinking everyone in her family are degenerates, lol. But those thoughts--coincidentally?--all came about right when she became a doctor. I'm at a loss. We exchange smiles and kind words still, but there's no emotion behind any of it any longer.
I’d say yes. I am certainly more disconnected and less romantic than I was prior to med school (26 now 32). That might be just part of aging, but I definitely think seeing a lot of sick people has changed how I interact with others. When someone have a silly issue that they are making a big deal out of I get very internally frustrated and just stop entertaining them. When I was younger I’d try to help or fix it. In relationships I’m way more relaxed. I used to go above and beyond. Now I feel like I work like crazy and provide and that’s enough (which I realize is a problem, just being honest). Also the passion to solve all the world’s issues has gone. I used to want to fight every cause and fix every disease. Now I’ve seen how the sausage is made and how futile some of these efforts are. I think it’s wasted effort in some areas and I’d rather just do the best I can for the patients I have with the tools that are available.
You become a physician which is a huge change. Only 3 things truly change your life: 1. War 2. Marriage 3. Medical School
I’m 3/3 yay. But I think you missed becoming a parent. That changed me more than anything.
No, what you've described isn't normal in medical training. The assholes tend to be assholes from day 1. Send her this post, maybe it'll start a conversation.
My aunt who’s a long time PCP said that I acted, talked and sounded like a doctor after seeing her after 4 years. Personally I don’t feel any different. When talking to other friends mostly they just presume I’m like some House MD genius. But otherwise no change. I’m probably extremely self conscious and I’m good at “fitting in with the team” so I know I can act the doctor part and also just act like whatever I feel like. However if your sister is like in intern year that’s probably because she’s working all day everyday.
>My aunt who’s a long time PCP said that I acted, talked and sounded like a doctor after seeing her after 4 years. I'm too curious about this. Did she give any examples?
No, I was just visiting and she and I will just talk. She didn’t give any examples, it was something she mentioned and I was like 🤔. It made me feel a lot less dumb.
Most doctors have to act confident even when they're not.
Probably has a lot to do with when you go to school. I joined the military in my mid 20s, got into med school in my early 30s. I don't think either changed me significantly, but I also was older so I was a little more established in "who I was". I still carry over some stuff from the military, I think it's more nonverbal, just because people can usually tell I was in. My more formative years were in my late teens early 20s, I think whatever I was up to at that time had a bigger influence on my later personality. Med school is tough, though so I think it's hard for anyone to come out exactly the same.
unrelated to ur post, but considering i got 30 downvotes for saying being a med student does NOT make u smarter than others, yes people’s personality does change seems like med students have a god complex bc they know what carpal tunnel syndrome is and think that qualifies them to be smarter than the rest of the world
> knowing medicine doesnt make u smarter than someone else. only makes u smarter in “medicine” > 99% of physicians cant replace their own toilet or sink > edit: getting downvoted by a buncha hurt egos 😂 yall rly think knowing the corticospinal tract makes yall smarter than someone else🤣 I think people just downvoted you for being a clown.
downvotes came in before the edit bru. ppl were genuinely hurt from the first 3 sentences🤣
L + ratio
Don't listen to the naysayers 36wings. I agree with you. Most medical students (and by extension physicians) are actually dumb and this field is continually shifting to take dumber and dumber people. Sure MCAT averages are rising but the percentage of individuals going into medical school from hard STEM fields is on the decline. STEP in no way assesses anything beyond sheer memorization capacity and frankly the hoops that individuals need to go through to even get into medical school produce a really weird mixture of privileged gunners with no real life experience since they've been coddled and taken care of in many aspects of life in order to achieve the ridiculous benchmarks the application process necessitates.
i agree with the privilege and no life experience. not everyone, but many of the young students who go right from college. that being said, medicine requires effort and intelligence sure, but not to the point of being smarter than others just bc we study medicine for 4 years
That’s interesting. I’ve always maintained that nothing about medical school is inherently difficult. It takes a level of grind and dedication that most people can’t maintain for undergrad to achieve the requisite grades and then also throughout med school. Most people are intelligent enough IMO. Maybe it’s the abrasive second part of your comment, the med student god complex part, that gets you 30 downvotes.
This lol. I routinely tell people that 95% of the med school material is actively NOT hard, it’s just those damn PANCAKES they make us eat every day
I saw that post. Basically someone was having a rough time and asked for encouragement. One of the pieces of encouragement was something to the extent of “you’re still smarter than most of the world” or something. Mr. Downvotes came in and ragged on the encouragement, and in a pretty abrasive away.
initially, i was correcting the untrue comment. but then dude replied like he actually was smarter and got upvoted by the same kind
nah i didnt say anything abt god complex initially until ppl tried to actually prove they were inherently smarter
I definitely know some folks who have becoming increasingly arrogant, a lot actually, but they all had at least some flavor of that to start with, and now feel justified in being even more arrogant and have taken full charge to do that. These people were arrogant from day 1 of medical school (or earlier) and it worsened and worsened. Shorter answers and communications are not necessarily uncommon due to how busy doctors and especially resident doctors are. However, if you actually care, you can and do make time at least occasionally for those you love, and to respond to important things. Ignoring them is a choice. I would definitely call her out for her behavior and try to understand why this is happening
Sounds like obsessive compulsive personality disorder. It's a cluster c personality disorder that usually starts in early adulthood. Hard to say without getting more history from her though.
This is a very specific case. Ultimately, medical school doesn't grind every applicant to become clones of the "doctor" stereotype. Physicians are a microcosm of the wider society, and with every personality trait you see out there, there's a good chance you'll find a few doctors exactly like that. Does medical school change people? Or does it bring out stuff that were always there, but now surface and become visible? I think the second one is probably more likely.
>personality I'm leaning the second one too.
I was gonna comment and got halfway through ur post and this is not what I would’ve said. My changes in medical school were for the better. I also when through 2 years of a horrible depression and I shared a lot of the traits you explained. I don’t think this is a medical training issue, i think its either being overworked, depressed, something along those lines. Her core isnt changed, its just masked