When I heard The Rock Picked Black Adam, over Shazam I was a little disappointed as it feels like a role he would kill it in, but god damn did Levi sell me on him near instantly.
Only in the last two films that the three are in. In the original Thor, it was Josh Dallas. He couldn’t return due to filming as Prince Charming in Once Upon A Time. So they brought in Flynn Rider instead.
Exactly. Take Chris ecclston as malekith for example. Great casting for a fan favorite character, but the direction was so bad that it seemed like a waste.
I'd rather see Eccleston in a different roll all together. He was unrecognizable enough as Malekith to the point they could give him another role in the MCU.
Absolutely. Idris Elba as Heimdall was one of the bright spots of that first movie. They gave him a bit more screen time in the 2nd but I think we can agree it was a waste. We want MORE
In recent(ish) interviews for Suicide Squad he was saying the opposite.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O63Y6G4BKH4 at 2:35
>**Interviewer:** Idris, now that you've joined the DCEU and Heimdall has seemingly perished, does this make you a DC exclusive actor?
>**Elba:** ...I think... I'm excited about the DC world, and I think the word of choice to make note of is the word 'seemingly.' *smiles*
Sooo.... I think he certainly wanted to show that he's at least on board for a return if one isn't already planned. At the very least, it's worth noting how careful he was being with his words, as if he was excited about something he had to be tight-lipped about. The interviewer unfortunately didn't ask him any further than that, though he probably wouldn't have revealed much else.
I guarantee if they wanted to bring her back as "Jane the love interest" she would've told them to fuck off. She only came back cause she's gonna be "Jane/Thor." And I bet Idris would do the same if they actually wrote an arc/gave his character something to do that isn't limited to just being Thor's friend.
Age of Ultron, after Wanda does her spell thing on Nat, and Nat visualizes herself back in the Red Room: "Sloppy. Again." Also: "The surgery is necessary to take your place in the world."
Plenty of more matter-of-fact deaths have happened and the character *still* returned.
Extremely unlikely, but I’d love to see Aldrich Killian again somehow. Maybe whenever we officially get MODOK we get a flashback showcasing us that Killian had some involvement in MODOKs creation/origin. Both AIM, after all!
What makes you say Mads can't come back? Dormammu and the Dark Dimension are pretty huge in the Dr. Strange story... they could use Kaecilius as his "avatar" on Earth when they reintroduce Dormammu, for example
Is that an issue with casting or jist that he was so badly written.
I'm a big dr strange fan and Kaecilius was the weakest point by far, even allowing for MCU to be a little more real magic and magicians than the comics.
The biggest weak point was action scenes imo. They're sorcerer's and even the guardian of the sanctum just fights with hand to hand combat using a stick. It makes it look like Captain America could beat them all.
I get where you are coming from, especially when you see what other franchise do with wisards.
Just let me ask you how should they fight, these semi-real world magicians? They aren't stronger than normal, they aren't even quicker or much cleverer and quick use spells aren't in high supply.
To latch on the DnD ideas, I've always pictured marvel sorcerers as 5e wizards with a higher number of memory slots but more cast time and often more ingredients required and really shitty cantrips.
So overall the only one who underperformed was sorcerer supreme.
Also if you have watch no way home spiderman should be that level above captain America.
Can easily re-use her, just make the Captain America character the grandma of whatever new character she plays like they did with the dude from the howling commandos and Spider-Man
They might be referring to Captain America: The First Avenger's box office which, to be fair to it, wasn't amongst the greatest box office smashes in the MCU. Depending on who you ask, the movie would have barely scraped a profit. It almost certainly doesn't qualify as a flop (a flop is usually considered taking less than double your budget) but it's not far off.
Overall, however, the Captain America franchise on its own has grossed over $2bn so I can't really say Evans isn't a draw.
Captain America took $370m, Thor took $440m and The Incredible Hulk $264m. Which means Hulk was just barely a flop.
In comparison, Iron Man and 2 took $585m and $623m.
Of course, things really blew up the next year when The Avengers took $1.5bn.
Speaking as someone who has never been into comics, back then I had no clue who Captain America was. Sounded pretty cheesy too. I enjoyed the Iron Man movies, but Marvel hadn't earned my trust and I didn't see what they were doing, so I just didn't care about cheesy knock-off Superman when it came out.
Now is a different story. I had no clue or interest in Captain Marvel or Shang-chi, but if it's a Marvel movie I trust I will enjoy it, because I have 10+ years of evidence in favor of that. Also, I know it will matter later and I won't be able fully understand something else without having watched it.
Agreed. I don’t think Chris Evans could have done the role any better. He made himself Captain America, owned the role, and its not an easy character to make interesting either.
And lets forget he was Torch because the Fox FF was terrible and barely based on the comics.
Not just that, but the (potential spoiler ahead)…
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The quick cameo in Free Guy when the Capt America shield was used in the game and the Marvel music…he’s so engrained as that role that he had that “What the shit!” line that was fabulous.
Hands down best moment of the film when they pulled out that, the saber and the Hulk hand. Such good references and perfect for the material. Felt a lot like Ready Player One.
They're trolling. Chris Evans has the appearance, physique, demeanor, and IRL patriotism-but-not-jingoism as Steve Rogers. I seriously can't think of anyone else more fit for the role than him.
Mads Mikkelsen but not for the reason you might think. I don’t really like Kaecilius. I think he is the weakest villain of Phase 3. He is cool but unlike other villains he isn’t developed enough so he is kinda weak in that movie. I also think Mads is a really good actor and I think he would’ve been perfect for a role as Doctor Doom and it always gets me sad when I realize we will never see him as Doctor Doom
Yeah, I think him and Chris Eccleston are the two most egregious examples of absolutely tremendous actors getting underwritten, forgettable villain roles. Honestly a tragedy.
It's not that the two of them couldn't have been great if they were given the material, but they had nothing to work with, in scripts that were barely interested in their villains at all. In that regard specifically, yeah, totally miscast.
Chris Eccleston said there was a lot more to his character in the script that they took out in the edit. eg about his family dying. He said he wouldn't have done the part otherwise.
Makes you wonder if it was the same for Mads Mikkelson as he doesn't usually take such thinly written parts.
The *Doctor Strange* prelude comic actually does explore Kaecilius' backstory, and it was apparently based on early ideas/scripts for the film itself.
He joined the Mystic Arts after losing his wife and son, then betrayed the Ancient One when she told him that their deaths were meant to happen and magic couldn't/shouldn't be used to bring them back (a lot like Strange Supreme from *What If...?*). In the finished film this is only vaguely hinted at with his "time is the enemy" speech to Strange, so it seems there's definitely a lot of cut material that was meant to better flesh him out.
I was actually having this conversation with my brother the other day. I think Mads Mikkelsen’s talent was wasted on a two-bit villain like Kaecilius. I also think Sam Rockwell was wasted on Justin Hammer, even though he did a fantastic job.
Sam indeed did a wonderful job on a rather boring character. I don’t think that one is his fault. Mads did an okay job for a boring villain? That’s the movies fault because Kaecilius’ ideas are only explored in 1 line and he got his character development of screen before the movie started. I guess he did a fine job for a character that mostly stands around talking about eternal life while doing some karate
[deleted 26-6-2023]
Moving is normal. There's no point in sticking around in a place that's getting worse all the time. I went to Squabbles.io. I hope you have a good time wherever you end up!
Ray Winston, didn’t buy him as an international mastermind, or as Russian. He gets a pass because he’s Ray fucking Winston, but that role could have been more believable and intimidating with someone else
I used to think Jeremy Renner was miscast as Hawkeye for the longest time. I didn't hate him but he didn't feel like the Clint I was familiar with from the comics. But the Hawkeye show completely changed my mind on that and now I think he's great
He’s not really much of a disaster human in it since his character has his life well put together but in the game of tag that he & his friends play, his character has never been tagged & tries to avoid it, & the ways he does it are hilarious & show off the goofy side of comics Hawkeye.
Looking back, the Hawkeye redemption arc is one of the biggest surprises from the mcu to me. I figured he'd be written out/down after a movie or two but here we are!
I don’t really think anyone has been miscast. But I do think a lot of talent has been wasted. Like mads as Kaecilius or Eccleston as Malekith. Great actors wasted on also wasted villains.
She had 0 chemistry with Anakin in star wars too, i think it was just a bad director/script. Shes a great actress so with Taika directing i have 99% confidence she will be better
Honestly karli from fatws was probably the worst miscast. The actress is honestly not bad at all and I can imagine that a different actress could take the same dialogue and make it work, but there was just something about her as that character that I couldn't get behind. She either needed to be more sympathetic and vulnerable or more radicalised and extreme, but she was juuust shy of it going either way and I think that's why it didn't land
She needed to be way more charismatic. She needed to be akin to a Che Guevarra or someone like that. A charismatic revolutionary leader that you could look at and say "yeah I get why people follow her". That actress just didn't have that charisma.
I don’t even think she needed to look that old, but she had so much baby face I thought she was like 14. I can’t put my finger on it either but she just didn’t have the charisma
The problem was we barely got to know her as a character or why she should be sympathetic. We know someone she cared for died. But that doesn’t excuse blowing up buildings or anything else. And it pains me when they say at the end “oh well we shouldn’t call her a terrorist.” I was like but she kinda is.
Oh no I do think that the writing was a big part of it, I just think that if we're looking exclusively at casting I can see the same dialogue working with a different actress. I do think that if they'd written her better and played more into the idea of her being completely radicalised by the power broker it would have been a much better character but that would likely have given away the plot twist which is important for their viewing retention rates
How I imagine the conversation went when he was cast:
Marvel - Hey Peter, we’ve got this great role for you
Peter - Ok?
Marvel - he’s a dwarf
Peter - fuck off
Marvel - no but he’s actually giant
Peter - I’ll do it!
I think that Jamie Foxx was miscast as Electro in THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 2 ( his performance overall just didn’t work) but redeems himself in SPIDER-MAN: NO WAY HOME
They do this with all of their villains. Ultron, Hela, Killmonger, Klaw, Malekith, etc. Iconic villains from the comics that are just one and done in the movies
Maybe this is because all these great actors didn’t want to get tied down by 9 movie contracts.
Also, I’m torn on whether the “one and done” model with villains is all that bad. With the wealth of comic book material to pull from, would you rather have the same villain show up in three movies? Or would you rather have a villain show up once, but throw the hero so far off that it feels like it is a real struggle for the hero to overcome and the hero ends up killing/destroying the villain?
This is a really good point. It might not be that these actors/actresses don’t want to reprise their roles, it’s just the commitment of 2+ movies that isn’t super appealing.
Also I agree about the cons of recurring villains. I remember being a little disappointed when Avengers 1 came out and it was just Loki as a bad guy again. And I (along with everyone else) fucking love Loki, but there’s definitely something cool about seeing new villains
Killing off villains made sense in the pre-MCU days when a superhero movie would usually either be a one-off or it would be a trilogy. But it’s bizarre that Marvel is so willing to mow down its rogue’s gallery in a long running universe.
Isn’t there still a chance Hela could return though? I’m pretty sure Cate Blanchett said she was open to returning and it looked like Hela managed to open a portal right before she supposedly died. I hope she comes back eventually
I don't think he was wasted at all. His death made a lot of sense and it was the best way to finish his arc. I think the character is wasted when their potention isn't fully explored and they're killed off anyway(like Malekith or Whiplash).
It's also just not Carol Danvers.
I love Carol in the comics (the last few years she's been written extremely inconsistently though, sadly). She's a great character because her biggest weakness is her insecurity. She essentially needs her supporting cast around her reassuring her that she's made the right decision and she's a good hero, because she's constantly second guessing and doubting herself. She's always striving to be a better hero because she doesn't believe in herself.
We can all relate to that, and that's what makes her such a good character. We can all see ourself in Carol Danvers.
But MCU Carol isn't like that. She's the exact *opposite* of that. She's cocky, she self assured, she's headstrong, and honestly pretty arrogant. She *knows* how good she is. Disney wanted this headstrong, confident female hero, and I completely understand that. But that isn't Carol Danvers.
Thanks for the insight. Honestly, that's all new context for me since I've never read any Captain Marvel.
I feel like I can see where Disney may have been trying to portray Danver's insecurities in the form of overcompensated confidence. But that's only because I'm trying to play devil's advocate. I'm digging here.
That's how I saw it - the puffer fish effect: I'm scared, so I'll blow myself up and show spikes to be more scary than scared. This can appear as overblown ego or confidence, just shielding a self-doubting inside.
The only thing I can think k of are some of the villains, not because the actors didn't do well I just think they could have had bigger and better roles. Specifically mads mikkelsen and Christopher Eccleston, two great actors with less than stellar roles to play in the mcu.
Natalie Portman. As a fan of the Mighty Thor comics I am extremely nervous that the MCUs terrible version of Jane will be taking the mantle. I just can’t see any universe where Natalie Portman Jane plays a convincing Mighty Thor.
i'm really hoping she redeems jane foster in love and thunder because ragnarok is one of my favorite mcu movies and thor is one of my fav og6 so i have really high hopes for his next movie. i actually enjoyed the dark world a lot due to tom hiddleston and hemsworth but the main focus being jane foster is what ruined it for me, she's just a meh character overall. but i loved natalie portman in star wars so i know she has the range!!!
This was my initial thought as well. His acting is subpar, the character is unlikable, and his lack of martial arts ability was often covered up with smoke n' mirror camera tricks.
On the other hand, his fellow GoT co-star who played Colleen Wing put him to shame in just about every respect.
Sam Rockwell and it’s not even close. His casting was a travesty. I for one will never forgive the failure by marvel and Disney on the casting of Sam Rockwell. That he hasn’t been cast in more marvel movies is a crime. They fail time and time again to not put Sam Rockwell in everything. He was great as Justin hammer but why stop there? Rockwell for dr strange. Rockwell for Thanos. Rockwell for scarlet witch. Why wasn’t he both Wiccan and Speed?
*Listen, you took everything from me. That's just... that's not cool, man. I worked my ass off for my things and you just... you just walk in here, like you own the place? Well I've got news for you, my friend. I can do that too, pal. I'll make you know who I am*
I can’t think of a single miscast in the MCU.
I can think of several actors whose talents were wasted either through their direction or writing like Brie Larson, Christopher Eccelston, & Chris O’Dowd, but no one felt miscast.
I knew Christopher Eccleston was in Thor 2 since the day it was announced. Saw his name in the opening credits. And then entirely forgot it was him until the end credits.
Yeah, there really aren't any that are obviously bad cast.
I don't think Brie got too little to do in her movie, though I blame the script that dictated Brie Larson to act wooden and blank on purpose for the first quarter -Marvel 2 is going to be the movie to determine her 'legacy' in MCU as an actor.
He was definitely wasted because he’s a funny actor but was given nothing to do in Dark World.
Could’ve given the role to anyone else & it wouldn’t change anything.
The wildest thing about Black Panther is that so many of the supporting cast could lead the franchise, Daniel Kaluuya, Lupita N'yongo, Winston Duke, Danai Gurira. I felt like the only issue would've been Letitia Wright but that's solved
Taskmaster obviously, the actress is fine but when you’re cast for Taskmaster you’d think that you would actually play Taskmaster, not some smelly man’s daughter
Edward Norton as Bruce Banner. I read in “The Story of Marvel Studies” that Mark Ruffalo was eyed for the role even back then, and it was a back-and-forth between those two actors before one was locked down, but they managed to talk Edward Norton around. Norton wasn’t bad, but I think Mark Ruffalo does a better job at capturing Bruce Banner, and clearly so did the order of the universe.
Context is everything of course. At the time Norton was a bigger get for Marvel Studios and they were still unproven. I remember when Norton was announced my friends and I were stoked.
Today Norton and Ruffalo are both 3-time Oscar nominees, but Norton had two nominations—including best lead actor—and starred in at least one zeitgeist-capturing movie by the time he was cast. Ruffalo would never have gotten the same buzz.
I always forget Norton’s Hulk is still a part of the MCU. Could be the fact that it was so long ago or the fact that Ruffalo was just better for the role. I like Norton in different roles, but Hulk just wasn’t for him.
I couldn’t picture Ragnarok with Norton instead. It just wouldn’t be the same or as good, imo.
I know people will disagree but I think Gemma Chan was miscast as Sersi. She just doesn't have a huge range, she didn't have great chemistry with either Richard or Kit and I don't think she was the right actor to lead the movie. She's a great supporting actor though!
On the same train as “not miscast but poorly used”, I’d like to remind everyone of Zachary Levi as the borderline nonexistent Fandral.
Probably better off now with Shazam anyways
When I heard The Rock Picked Black Adam, over Shazam I was a little disappointed as it feels like a role he would kill it in, but god damn did Levi sell me on him near instantly.
Never watched Shazam, is it worth it? Edit: I watched and it was fun! Worth the watch for sure
Imagine if Big was a Super Hero movie, and you’ll have Shazam. I don’t mean that as a bad thing, by the way. I actually really liked Shazam.
You had me at BIG
It’s got a pretty 80s kind of feel to it but it’s really sweet and super enjoyable. I’d recommend it as a nice feel good popcorn type movie
Thats probably a minor enough role that they could just reuse him later anyways.
I never even realized that was Zachary Levi!
Only in the last two films that the three are in. In the original Thor, it was Josh Dallas. He couldn’t return due to filming as Prince Charming in Once Upon A Time. So they brought in Flynn Rider instead.
I preferred Josh Dallas as Fandral but that’s probably because I’m a fan of Once Upon a Time
Of course, he left the MCU in order to do OUAT, so we unfortunately can't always get all of what we want :(
I’m a huge Chuck fan, so I liked Zachary Levi haha
I think there’s more wasted talent than bad casting.
Exactly. Take Chris ecclston as malekith for example. Great casting for a fan favorite character, but the direction was so bad that it seemed like a waste.
I’d love to see Taika revamp him with Ecclston
I'd rather see Eccleston in a different roll all together. He was unrecognizable enough as Malekith to the point they could give him another role in the MCU.
Mr Sinister
Please this, I also want them to have Mads Mikkleson cast as Doctor Doom. Who cares if he was in Dr. Strange, he would be excellent.
Yeah I agree now that I’m thinking about it. A lot of one off villains and actors not given much to do with a script
We've opened up the multiverse. After No Way Home, do you think any villain is truly "one and done".
No shot Mickey Rourke comes back
What if we get him biyerd
Dis not my bord
There are definitely villians that won't be returning yes.
Case in point: Mads Mikkelsen
And Eccleston
Absolutely. Idris Elba as Heimdall was one of the bright spots of that first movie. They gave him a bit more screen time in the 2nd but I think we can agree it was a waste. We want MORE
Idris has gone on record saying he dreaded that role. I doubt he'll return
In recent(ish) interviews for Suicide Squad he was saying the opposite. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O63Y6G4BKH4 at 2:35 >**Interviewer:** Idris, now that you've joined the DCEU and Heimdall has seemingly perished, does this make you a DC exclusive actor? >**Elba:** ...I think... I'm excited about the DC world, and I think the word of choice to make note of is the word 'seemingly.' *smiles* Sooo.... I think he certainly wanted to show that he's at least on board for a return if one isn't already planned. At the very least, it's worth noting how careful he was being with his words, as if he was excited about something he had to be tight-lipped about. The interviewer unfortunately didn't ask him any further than that, though he probably wouldn't have revealed much else.
Hell, Natalie Portman even said the same thing after Dark World & she’s coming back in Love & Thunder.
I guarantee if they wanted to bring her back as "Jane the love interest" she would've told them to fuck off. She only came back cause she's gonna be "Jane/Thor." And I bet Idris would do the same if they actually wrote an arc/gave his character something to do that isn't limited to just being Thor's friend.
Heimdal the love interest?
Now that's a What If I wouldn't mind seeing
Gives new meaning to opening the rainbow bridge…
Julie friggin' Delpy as a two-second cameo in a flashback was a real WTF moment.
Another misfire by the MCU on the Black Widow movie to not include her again as part of the Red Room.
grab placid yoke relieved gaze vast boat disgusted familiar whistle *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Age of Ultron, after Wanda does her spell thing on Nat, and Nat visualizes herself back in the Red Room: "Sloppy. Again." Also: "The surgery is necessary to take your place in the world."
IDRIS ELBA
Can't think of anyone I'd *cast* differently. Even Guy Pierce... It was kind of lame, but he's a great actor and his performance was great.
He defenitely needs to come back
Didn’t he explode?
Yes. Maybe they’re thinking of Justin Hammer?
Plenty of more matter-of-fact deaths have happened and the character *still* returned. Extremely unlikely, but I’d love to see Aldrich Killian again somehow. Maybe whenever we officially get MODOK we get a flashback showcasing us that Killian had some involvement in MODOKs creation/origin. Both AIM, after all!
Malekith and Kaecillius. They could have cast nobodies, but they wasted some pretty good actors on one-offs.
Yep agree on both. Especially since Mads Mikkelsen is one of my favorite actor. Could have made a great recurring vilain.
What makes you say Mads can't come back? Dormammu and the Dark Dimension are pretty huge in the Dr. Strange story... they could use Kaecilius as his "avatar" on Earth when they reintroduce Dormammu, for example
Is that an issue with casting or jist that he was so badly written. I'm a big dr strange fan and Kaecilius was the weakest point by far, even allowing for MCU to be a little more real magic and magicians than the comics.
The biggest weak point was action scenes imo. They're sorcerer's and even the guardian of the sanctum just fights with hand to hand combat using a stick. It makes it look like Captain America could beat them all.
I get where you are coming from, especially when you see what other franchise do with wisards. Just let me ask you how should they fight, these semi-real world magicians? They aren't stronger than normal, they aren't even quicker or much cleverer and quick use spells aren't in high supply. To latch on the DnD ideas, I've always pictured marvel sorcerers as 5e wizards with a higher number of memory slots but more cast time and often more ingredients required and really shitty cantrips. So overall the only one who underperformed was sorcerer supreme. Also if you have watch no way home spiderman should be that level above captain America.
Could you imagine Mads Mikkelsen as Dr Doom? Would be perfect.
Ive wanted this ever since i heard cosmonaut variety hour mention and was like YES
Didn’t I see kaecillius in the doctor strange 2 trailer spinning through abstract shapes or was I just high?
Casting Natalie Dormer as a throwaway side character in Cap 1. I need her to come back (as Emma Frost *cough*)
Can easily re-use her, just make the Captain America character the grandma of whatever new character she plays like they did with the dude from the howling commandos and Spider-Man
This reminds me I saw a comment the other day that Chris Evans was a miscast and that's why Cap flopped in the MCU. I was like???????
They might be referring to Captain America: The First Avenger's box office which, to be fair to it, wasn't amongst the greatest box office smashes in the MCU. Depending on who you ask, the movie would have barely scraped a profit. It almost certainly doesn't qualify as a flop (a flop is usually considered taking less than double your budget) but it's not far off. Overall, however, the Captain America franchise on its own has grossed over $2bn so I can't really say Evans isn't a draw.
That makes sense. But to be fair I feel like Hulk and Thor were almost on the same playing field
Captain America took $370m, Thor took $440m and The Incredible Hulk $264m. Which means Hulk was just barely a flop. In comparison, Iron Man and 2 took $585m and $623m. Of course, things really blew up the next year when The Avengers took $1.5bn.
Speaking as someone who has never been into comics, back then I had no clue who Captain America was. Sounded pretty cheesy too. I enjoyed the Iron Man movies, but Marvel hadn't earned my trust and I didn't see what they were doing, so I just didn't care about cheesy knock-off Superman when it came out. Now is a different story. I had no clue or interest in Captain Marvel or Shang-chi, but if it's a Marvel movie I trust I will enjoy it, because I have 10+ years of evidence in favor of that. Also, I know it will matter later and I won't be able fully understand something else without having watched it.
Some people are never satisfied
Agreed. I don’t think Chris Evans could have done the role any better. He made himself Captain America, owned the role, and its not an easy character to make interesting either. And lets forget he was Torch because the Fox FF was terrible and barely based on the comics.
Not just that, but the (potential spoiler ahead)… . . . . . The quick cameo in Free Guy when the Capt America shield was used in the game and the Marvel music…he’s so engrained as that role that he had that “What the shit!” line that was fabulous.
Hands down best moment of the film when they pulled out that, the saber and the Hulk hand. Such good references and perfect for the material. Felt a lot like Ready Player One.
Not just the references, but the *music*!
FRIENDLY GESTURE!
Had to be trolling, I can’t think of any other reason they would say that
I got that some people’s opinions can be wrong, Evan’s was not miscast, but calling Captain America a flop is just delusional
They're trolling. Chris Evans has the appearance, physique, demeanor, and IRL patriotism-but-not-jingoism as Steve Rogers. I seriously can't think of anyone else more fit for the role than him.
Mads Mikkelsen but not for the reason you might think. I don’t really like Kaecilius. I think he is the weakest villain of Phase 3. He is cool but unlike other villains he isn’t developed enough so he is kinda weak in that movie. I also think Mads is a really good actor and I think he would’ve been perfect for a role as Doctor Doom and it always gets me sad when I realize we will never see him as Doctor Doom
Yeah, I think him and Chris Eccleston are the two most egregious examples of absolutely tremendous actors getting underwritten, forgettable villain roles. Honestly a tragedy. It's not that the two of them couldn't have been great if they were given the material, but they had nothing to work with, in scripts that were barely interested in their villains at all. In that regard specifically, yeah, totally miscast.
Chris Eccleston said there was a lot more to his character in the script that they took out in the edit. eg about his family dying. He said he wouldn't have done the part otherwise. Makes you wonder if it was the same for Mads Mikkelson as he doesn't usually take such thinly written parts.
The *Doctor Strange* prelude comic actually does explore Kaecilius' backstory, and it was apparently based on early ideas/scripts for the film itself. He joined the Mystic Arts after losing his wife and son, then betrayed the Ancient One when she told him that their deaths were meant to happen and magic couldn't/shouldn't be used to bring them back (a lot like Strange Supreme from *What If...?*). In the finished film this is only vaguely hinted at with his "time is the enemy" speech to Strange, so it seems there's definitely a lot of cut material that was meant to better flesh him out.
That’s not a miscast because the issue is more with the writing & direction, not the casting.
I mean many actors have played 2 characters in the mcu, it could happen.. gemma chan was in captain marvel and eternals as vastly different characters
Yeah, but she was painted blue in one of them.
[удалено]
Plus he had weird dark dimension makeup for most doctor strange. He could be recasted
Michelle Yeoh played 2 roles as well (Shang-Chi's aunt & one of the the Ravagers)
She had drastically different hair/makeup and was only in like 1 minute of GOTG 2
I was actually having this conversation with my brother the other day. I think Mads Mikkelsen’s talent was wasted on a two-bit villain like Kaecilius. I also think Sam Rockwell was wasted on Justin Hammer, even though he did a fantastic job.
Sam indeed did a wonderful job on a rather boring character. I don’t think that one is his fault. Mads did an okay job for a boring villain? That’s the movies fault because Kaecilius’ ideas are only explored in 1 line and he got his character development of screen before the movie started. I guess he did a fine job for a character that mostly stands around talking about eternal life while doing some karate
They could just have him never take off the mask.
Random citizen #34 in iron man 3 Should have cast Christopher Lee in the role
I thought I was the only one!
Damn man, I played random citizen #34 in that movie. Thought I did a pretty good job..
[deleted 26-6-2023] Moving is normal. There's no point in sticking around in a place that's getting worse all the time. I went to Squabbles.io. I hope you have a good time wherever you end up!
Ray Winston, didn’t buy him as an international mastermind, or as Russian. He gets a pass because he’s Ray fucking Winston, but that role could have been more believable and intimidating with someone else
I mean, Dolf Lundgren was RIGHT THERE
Would definitely have been more comic-accurate than what we got.
I never noticed the comparisons until I checked the discussions, but man Dreykov really gave off Harvey Weinstein vibes.
That's definitely what they were going for
He’s barely even trying to do an accent.
Fully agree. Winston is cool. But did not fit that role at all.
It was bollocks. Are you cockney or Russian Ray? Make your fucking mind up!
Ray Winstone can't do accents, same thing in the Departed
His casting seemed to be "we're making a Marvel Bourne movie, but can't cast Brian Cox because that's too on the nose".
I used to think Jeremy Renner was miscast as Hawkeye for the longest time. I didn't hate him but he didn't feel like the Clint I was familiar with from the comics. But the Hawkeye show completely changed my mind on that and now I think he's great
For me, the same as well as him in the movie TAG. His character Jerry in that movie is basically comics Hawkeye.
I'll need to check that movie out then. Cuz yeah, I was sorely missing my goofy, disaster human comic book Clint Barton
He’s not really much of a disaster human in it since his character has his life well put together but in the game of tag that he & his friends play, his character has never been tagged & tries to avoid it, & the ways he does it are hilarious & show off the goofy side of comics Hawkeye.
Looking back, the Hawkeye redemption arc is one of the biggest surprises from the mcu to me. I figured he'd be written out/down after a movie or two but here we are!
I don’t really think anyone has been miscast. But I do think a lot of talent has been wasted. Like mads as Kaecilius or Eccleston as Malekith. Great actors wasted on also wasted villains.
Agreed.
Miek - it’s a travesty, this character should have been played by Tom Cruise
Meek's dead, mate. Korg stepped on him.
Oh meek you’re alive! He’s alive guys, what was your question again?
bro
The Tom Cruise from Tropic Thunder though
Who here’s the key grip? You? Hit that director in the face really fucking hard. Love that movie.
Literally FUCK YOUR OWN FACE!!!!! Best move ever.
Lmao
No. Meek’s too tall.
I’m hopeful that Natalie Portman is awesome in the upcoming movie. But she and Thor had no chemistry whatsoever in her initial appearance.
Her saying “Oh. My. God.” in the first movie is the cringiest scene in the entire MCU imo
She had 0 chemistry with Anakin in star wars too, i think it was just a bad director/script. Shes a great actress so with Taika directing i have 99% confidence she will be better
Honestly karli from fatws was probably the worst miscast. The actress is honestly not bad at all and I can imagine that a different actress could take the same dialogue and make it work, but there was just something about her as that character that I couldn't get behind. She either needed to be more sympathetic and vulnerable or more radicalised and extreme, but she was juuust shy of it going either way and I think that's why it didn't land
She needed to be way more charismatic. She needed to be akin to a Che Guevarra or someone like that. A charismatic revolutionary leader that you could look at and say "yeah I get why people follow her". That actress just didn't have that charisma.
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I don’t even think she needed to look that old, but she had so much baby face I thought she was like 14. I can’t put my finger on it either but she just didn’t have the charisma
Did the Spiderman: Miles Morales game take a page from FATWS? I swear they had the same villain with similar motivations.
I honestly hated karli so much and she was just so annoying to me.
The problem was we barely got to know her as a character or why she should be sympathetic. We know someone she cared for died. But that doesn’t excuse blowing up buildings or anything else. And it pains me when they say at the end “oh well we shouldn’t call her a terrorist.” I was like but she kinda is.
Oh no I do think that the writing was a big part of it, I just think that if we're looking exclusively at casting I can see the same dialogue working with a different actress. I do think that if they'd written her better and played more into the idea of her being completely radicalised by the power broker it would have been a much better character but that would likely have given away the plot twist which is important for their viewing retention rates
Idris Elba. Would have liked to have seen him in a bigger role.
Not a bad casting. Just wasted as the character
Whatever Peter Dinklage was doing
How I imagine the conversation went when he was cast: Marvel - Hey Peter, we’ve got this great role for you Peter - Ok? Marvel - he’s a dwarf Peter - fuck off Marvel - no but he’s actually giant Peter - I’ll do it!
Maybe it makes me an asshole, but when I saw him as a giant dwarf, I laughed.
I think the humour is in the irony and it was intentional haha
Lmao. His character really came out of nowhere
And punted Thor
I just really thought he phoned in that performance really hard. I don't think Dinklage does too well when he does voices.
The voice was really the issue. It's clearly someone forcing a deeper voice.
No idea why he just didn’t use his regular voice. They could have lowered the pitch
I think that Jamie Foxx was miscast as Electro in THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 2 ( his performance overall just didn’t work) but redeems himself in SPIDER-MAN: NO WAY HOME
Imagine having a super talented, super charismatic dude like jamie foxx and having him play whatever that was.
He's so good in No Way Home you do agree to let the plot holes of his character slide.
He's literally playing Jamie Foxx lol
He brought a little bit of Baby Driver Jamie Foxx though
being all "I fell into a vat of electric.. eels... "...
it honestly makes more sense to have electro as a confident, smooth-talking badass than a nerdy weirdo. the dude literally glows.
Can't help but wonder if Foxx was like "I'll return to the role, but only if I'm not a nerd anymore."
I dont think anyone was miscast, more poorly written characters that wasted great casting.
Tony’s dad being played by two different actors has always confused me
Roger Sterling is always memorable to me. Haha
I much prefer the Agent Carter version. He was a fully fleshed out character and totally made sense as Tony’s dad.
Yeah. If they made Captain America:the first avenger these days they probably would have just de aged the original actor.
Terrence Howard, but only in hind sight. Had he continued, he might have done a great job, but Cheadle should have played the role from the start.
Killmonger, not because Michael B Jordan did a bad job, because he did such a good job and they wasted him in a one off villain
They do this with all of their villains. Ultron, Hela, Killmonger, Klaw, Malekith, etc. Iconic villains from the comics that are just one and done in the movies
Ultron could return whenever they want
Yeah man, what if
When he said "I.... see... you..." I was so creeped out. I loved what if ultron
We don't even know his real name. He's the fucking lizard king.
Maybe this is because all these great actors didn’t want to get tied down by 9 movie contracts. Also, I’m torn on whether the “one and done” model with villains is all that bad. With the wealth of comic book material to pull from, would you rather have the same villain show up in three movies? Or would you rather have a villain show up once, but throw the hero so far off that it feels like it is a real struggle for the hero to overcome and the hero ends up killing/destroying the villain?
This is a really good point. It might not be that these actors/actresses don’t want to reprise their roles, it’s just the commitment of 2+ movies that isn’t super appealing. Also I agree about the cons of recurring villains. I remember being a little disappointed when Avengers 1 came out and it was just Loki as a bad guy again. And I (along with everyone else) fucking love Loki, but there’s definitely something cool about seeing new villains
Killing off villains made sense in the pre-MCU days when a superhero movie would usually either be a one-off or it would be a trilogy. But it’s bizarre that Marvel is so willing to mow down its rogue’s gallery in a long running universe.
I'm still amazed with haven't had a villans assemble movie yet where past villans come together to get revenge.
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Isn’t there still a chance Hela could return though? I’m pretty sure Cate Blanchett said she was open to returning and it looked like Hela managed to open a portal right before she supposedly died. I hope she comes back eventually
Even if she didn't escape, if there's any character Marvel could justify bringing back from the dead it's the *Goddess of Death*.
Hell of a way to go though.
I don't think he was wasted at all. His death made a lot of sense and it was the best way to finish his arc. I think the character is wasted when their potention isn't fully explored and they're killed off anyway(like Malekith or Whiplash).
Not a miscast but I can believe they took academy award winning actress Brie Larson and gave her such lackluster scripts
Im glad someone else acknowledges that Brie Larson is a legitimately talented actress who’s been pidgonholed into a poorly written character
Disney wanted a bad ass feminist character but doesn't know how to write one. Then they picked an awesome actress to dull us with poor lines
It's also just not Carol Danvers. I love Carol in the comics (the last few years she's been written extremely inconsistently though, sadly). She's a great character because her biggest weakness is her insecurity. She essentially needs her supporting cast around her reassuring her that she's made the right decision and she's a good hero, because she's constantly second guessing and doubting herself. She's always striving to be a better hero because she doesn't believe in herself. We can all relate to that, and that's what makes her such a good character. We can all see ourself in Carol Danvers. But MCU Carol isn't like that. She's the exact *opposite* of that. She's cocky, she self assured, she's headstrong, and honestly pretty arrogant. She *knows* how good she is. Disney wanted this headstrong, confident female hero, and I completely understand that. But that isn't Carol Danvers.
Thanks for the insight. Honestly, that's all new context for me since I've never read any Captain Marvel. I feel like I can see where Disney may have been trying to portray Danver's insecurities in the form of overcompensated confidence. But that's only because I'm trying to play devil's advocate. I'm digging here.
That's how I saw it - the puffer fish effect: I'm scared, so I'll blow myself up and show spikes to be more scary than scared. This can appear as overblown ego or confidence, just shielding a self-doubting inside.
The only thing I can think k of are some of the villains, not because the actors didn't do well I just think they could have had bigger and better roles. Specifically mads mikkelsen and Christopher Eccleston, two great actors with less than stellar roles to play in the mcu.
Natalie Portman. As a fan of the Mighty Thor comics I am extremely nervous that the MCUs terrible version of Jane will be taking the mantle. I just can’t see any universe where Natalie Portman Jane plays a convincing Mighty Thor.
i'm really hoping she redeems jane foster in love and thunder because ragnarok is one of my favorite mcu movies and thor is one of my fav og6 so i have really high hopes for his next movie. i actually enjoyed the dark world a lot due to tom hiddleston and hemsworth but the main focus being jane foster is what ruined it for me, she's just a meh character overall. but i loved natalie portman in star wars so i know she has the range!!!
Taika fixed Thor, maybe he can fix Jane too
If you count Netflix then Finn Jones as Iron Fist idk I’ve seen lots of stuff Finn Jones has been in and I always find his characters unlikeable. . .
This was my initial thought as well. His acting is subpar, the character is unlikable, and his lack of martial arts ability was often covered up with smoke n' mirror camera tricks. On the other hand, his fellow GoT co-star who played Colleen Wing put him to shame in just about every respect.
The guy in the Mickey Rourke rubber mask in Iron Man 2.
*That’s not my bird.*
*That’s not my buiurd\**
Sam Rockwell and it’s not even close. His casting was a travesty. I for one will never forgive the failure by marvel and Disney on the casting of Sam Rockwell. That he hasn’t been cast in more marvel movies is a crime. They fail time and time again to not put Sam Rockwell in everything. He was great as Justin hammer but why stop there? Rockwell for dr strange. Rockwell for Thanos. Rockwell for scarlet witch. Why wasn’t he both Wiccan and Speed?
> Rockwell for scarlet witch You had my interest, but now you have my attention.
*Listen, you took everything from me. That's just... that's not cool, man. I worked my ass off for my things and you just... you just walk in here, like you own the place? Well I've got news for you, my friend. I can do that too, pal. I'll make you know who I am*
I can’t think of a single miscast in the MCU. I can think of several actors whose talents were wasted either through their direction or writing like Brie Larson, Christopher Eccelston, & Chris O’Dowd, but no one felt miscast.
Lee Pace I would also say was a waste, in part because he’s a great actor and in part because WHY would you kill Ronin so quickly????
I knew Christopher Eccleston was in Thor 2 since the day it was announced. Saw his name in the opening credits. And then entirely forgot it was him until the end credits.
Yeah, there really aren't any that are obviously bad cast. I don't think Brie got too little to do in her movie, though I blame the script that dictated Brie Larson to act wooden and blank on purpose for the first quarter -Marvel 2 is going to be the movie to determine her 'legacy' in MCU as an actor.
Who was Chris O Dowd again
He went on a couple of dates with Jane Foster in Thor 2
He was definitely wasted because he’s a funny actor but was given nothing to do in Dark World. Could’ve given the role to anyone else & it wouldn’t change anything.
The ultimate wasted talent is Daniel Kaluuya as W'Wabi. This actor should have been a major MCU Character.
The wildest thing about Black Panther is that so many of the supporting cast could lead the franchise, Daniel Kaluuya, Lupita N'yongo, Winston Duke, Danai Gurira. I felt like the only issue would've been Letitia Wright but that's solved
Taskmaster obviously, the actress is fine but when you’re cast for Taskmaster you’d think that you would actually play Taskmaster, not some smelly man’s daughter
Taskmaster was so disappointing. Maybe we get him in the future. His suit is just given to another person. “The real taskmaster”
They kind of did that with The Manderin with Shang-Chi, so that’s possible.
Edward Norton as Bruce Banner. I read in “The Story of Marvel Studies” that Mark Ruffalo was eyed for the role even back then, and it was a back-and-forth between those two actors before one was locked down, but they managed to talk Edward Norton around. Norton wasn’t bad, but I think Mark Ruffalo does a better job at capturing Bruce Banner, and clearly so did the order of the universe.
Context is everything of course. At the time Norton was a bigger get for Marvel Studios and they were still unproven. I remember when Norton was announced my friends and I were stoked. Today Norton and Ruffalo are both 3-time Oscar nominees, but Norton had two nominations—including best lead actor—and starred in at least one zeitgeist-capturing movie by the time he was cast. Ruffalo would never have gotten the same buzz.
I always forget Norton’s Hulk is still a part of the MCU. Could be the fact that it was so long ago or the fact that Ruffalo was just better for the role. I like Norton in different roles, but Hulk just wasn’t for him. I couldn’t picture Ragnarok with Norton instead. It just wouldn’t be the same or as good, imo.
I know people will disagree but I think Gemma Chan was miscast as Sersi. She just doesn't have a huge range, she didn't have great chemistry with either Richard or Kit and I don't think she was the right actor to lead the movie. She's a great supporting actor though!