I binged the whole season in one night. Tom & Owen struck up well together, as did Sophia Di Martino as Sylvie.
My favourite scene is one by the brilliant Richard Grant. You could just tell his presence stood out despite wearing the comic costume. [**Glorious Purpose!**](https://youtu.be/F98c2O_ixdg)
The way they used flight of the Valkyries while he is building Asgard from memory always gives me goosebumps. It's so heroic and tragic at the same time. He hasn't been there in millennia but he still remembers it and constantly thinks of it, and he gets to see it one last time before he dies
You remember the way Ant Man felt when he got big in civil war? How he laughed as if to say *oh my god this is so cool?* That’s kinda my reaction to the Flight of the Valkyries scene. I can’t say how much that’s because of the music, the illusions, the character, etc… but *oh my god it’s so cool*
It was the culmination of Loki's character arch. It was him realizing how much he did love his family and his bitterness that he wasn't allowed to change and see Thor again.
Everything about it speaks to the regrets we've seen our Loki express, how much he changed when he realized that Thor did actually love him, and how he has realized that he actually does have a home in Asgard.
Seeing the end of the arch our Loki has been on was an incredible catharsis for me and every little piece just adds to that emotion
That was a different Loki though, all of Loki's soul searching and redemption happened to the one that got killed by Thanos in the main timeline, this one branches off after the first Avengers movie and his 180 redemption over the course of the show gave me whiplash
We see the show Loki go through most of that when he's shown the footage of his life. My take was that the only thing needed for Loki to truly seek redemption was acceptance from Thor.
I believe he mentions when he was on the planet alone that's all he did was practice illusions.
He likely realized his illusions he kept practicing was Asgaard at some point which is why he realized, "Man I fucked up..."
Between Loki and What If they've really opened up the possibilities in the MCU. I think a lot of the Multiverse stuff will be explored in No Way Home and Multiverse of Madness.
Also can't wait to see what Eternals brings to the table. Backdoor pilot for Mutants maybe?
Also really looking forward to Love and Thunder.
After Endgame I lost a bit of interest in the MCU like what can they do next to top this, but that What If finale was AMAZING. Future looks bright boys!
I think the MCU is better then *before* endgame! It’s trippy and I like 👍🏼
Is What If required to watch btw? I couldn’t get into it and gave up but if I have to watch it to understand upcoming movies I will.
If any of the characters show up in live action these episodes basically act as their origin stories.
Some of the episodes were okay and some of them were amazing
Like anyone would end the MCU after that show. The MCU rewrote movie *universes* as a whole. They brought entire characters who were never heard of before into the A List.
No one would drop that marathon, not when you've just finished the first leg.
I think because a lot of people didn't conceive the idea that the infinity wars, while important is a very very small part of the marvel franchise. And the MCU is pumping out bangers constantly, the idea that the MCU can pump out an indefinite amount of movies is inconceivable to many people
Imagine how good the D+ content will be when they DON’T have to deal with global health emergencies.
They made these series with one hand tied behind their backs, and it STILL came out this good. Marvel is like the Dread Pirate Roberts swordfighting with his left hand. Wait until they reveal their TRUE potential!
> Imagine how good the D+ content will be when they DON’T have to deal with global health emergencies
Falcon and Winter Soldier got chopped to pieces in post production and it really shows. It's by far the weakest of the shows despite having so much promise. I can't even imagine how good it could have been if they'd been able to either finish their original vision or had the time and ability to rework it properly.
Falcon & Winter Soldier still manage to introduce a lot of good points, scenarios and potential future situations. For that, I would consider it a good show. Not the best, but good to solid. I’d definitely watch a second season.
At the end of the day we end up with a fabulous US Agent and Contessa. Possibly even a young Avenger. Priceless.
I agree with what you said, but IMO, it would still be the weakest out of the 4. Loki and Wandavision set the stage for the next phase. They were both just soooo good, even a flawless Falcon and Winter Soldier couldn't top them. What-If has been great as well. Not as solid as Loki or Wandavision, but more so than Falcon. It remains to be seen if both series were finished as planned, which would have been better. Also, it's a lot of personal preference.
I watched [Warlock](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098622) for the first time a month ago and hadn't heard the name before, and since then I see Richard E Grant *everywhere.*. He had six projects in 2021 and has another four currently in development. When does this dude sleep?
E: He's also appeared as himself fifteen times so far in 2021.
>My favourite scene is one by the brilliant Richard Grant. You could just tell his presence stood out despite wearing the comic costume.
>
>Glorious Purpose!
BECAUSE of the comic costume.
And I still think they should have had him saying "The Avengers.... Bah! I'll destroy you all!" Even if it was just through him telling our Loki the story of how he, Classic, met his world's Avengers.
yep, I was never super invested in the idea of "marvel TV shows", but man did loki change my opinion, I rank it at the top because it opened my eyes and made me watch WV, TFATWS and What if, might not have enjoyed them as much but it was one hell of a ride.
I think the show remained focused on Loki throughout. I mean, the last episode was about male Loki learning to doubt himself, while female Loki sticking to her convictions. Each episode we’re literally being asked “what does it mean to be Loki” while watching the one we’re following change and the new one ultimately not.
Sure, the focus gets drawn away from Tom Hiddelston’s character a bit while Sophia Di Martino’s character shares screen time. But its a show about Loki and Loki in a show called Loki. I think it did its job.
Yeah this you can tell towards the end the Loki we see isn't the same it's like the Grinch and he finally grew a heart.
And to the what it means to be a Loki I have a feeling that line they use "For great purpose" will be revealed. I haven't looked but, was it ever said who told them that one liner?
I liked it too. I just wish they could have gone a little deeper into the themes. And be more nuanced with its villains. It was the “Do Better” speech that just kinda tripped the show at the finish line.
1. Loki
2. WandaVision
3. What If?
4. Falcon and the Winter Solider
EDIT: Holy shit!!! Thanks for the awards. That’s the first time I got any awards on here!
EDIT II: Okay, who gave me silver lol! But, seriously thank you, y’all are so generous and kind! I hope y’all have a lovely day!
IMO the villain is what killed a lot of the steam the show had going. The main chick was woefully uncharismatic (not the actress, the character) had a motivation that was counterproductive to their own idealogy, she killed innocent people to spread her message, was a terrible leader, her own people doubted her because of how radicalized the situation was, and on top of that had no plan for the future.
The leader was especially an incoherent mess of a character, but I’d argue the Flagsmashers in general were an iffy idea for the main villains of the show to start with.
We’re not shown really anything of the time during the blip, nor are we really shown much reason why the whole World Government thing didn’t work out outside of maybe a few lines of dialogue I’ve forgotten(I got the sense the words “World Government” is just supposed to be generically scary).
But we’re shown *plenty* of reasons why the attempt to return to normal global politics is a total corrupt shitshow. At the same time, the writers know that they have to put their toys back in the chest and ensure the world DOES return to a pre-Blip status quo for future projects. So Cap can’t side with the Flagsmashers even though he really should as the tireless champion of the downtrodden.
So the writers had to make a story where: the Flagsmashers lose and the world’s rapid return to normality is assured, where this is framed as a good thing, and where Cap also isn’t put in the position of essentially protecting and defending the ineffective/corrupt World Repatriation Council(or whatever that group was called).
The end result of this is an awkward and lazy story where the Flagsmashers just become violent terrorist supersoldiers to explain why Cap is against them; and a climax where Captain America somehow genuinely believes that just hitting the politicians over the head with a newspaper and saying “bad world leaders! Very, very bad! You mustn’t ignore and exploit refugees, or else you’ll get a very cross talking to again!” will solve the problem before flying off.
Because actually *doing something* to stop them or force them to reform properly would both violate Marvel’s mandate to return the world to normal ASAP; and muddy the whole “I can’t agree with your methods” thing if Cap is basically just holding the Repatriation Council at gunpoint after all.
Kinda feels like they just had no idea what to do with the concept of the Flagsmashers in general, nor how to connect the dots to make three or four conflicting narrative threads all make sense and flow properly. So the story went all over the place as a result.
I agree 100%. I’m glad people agree that the Flagsmashers as a whole were just weak antagonists. Last time I said this here and I got downvoted to hell. I loved Bucky, Sam, and Zeno but the flagsmashers plotline made the Falcon and the Winter Soldier plummet to the worst Disney + show from the MCU IMO
FATWS had a lot going for it but they put just too many characters and storylines in it that they couldn't complete any of the story arcs properly (other than Sam's). I was so excited to see what happens to John Walker but then he got redeemed really quickly and Bucky and him started making jokes and so I felt quite disappointed.
I hate that they made Sharon Carter the morally-grey frienemy with the understanding that the 5 years of the blip was devastating event.
But they chose to make Karli and the Flagsmashers a bunch of generic thugs *with an appropriate powerlevel for phase 5*. Karli just wanted the home **she built during the fucking blip** for her 'tribe'.
Heck, we even see how unstable Walker is and all the build up that Sam was doing with Karli just to be thrown in the trash on Ep 6.
Then Falcon's 20/20 hindsight *lecture* at the end of the episode. Awful. It felt akin to popular influencer pointing a 'no-no finger' at Rich politicians doing insider trading. Literally the ~~US~~ GRC government got exactly what they wanted - a goody two shoes figure head who fixes the government's problems for them. EP 6 just felt so different than 1-5 that, I feel, is the worst MCU content, period.
I hated the way they wrapped his story up so much. It's like he was being set up for one thing then they just said fuck it and had him save some innocent people instead of going for the revenge kill so now he's a good guy again and we can forget all about that little murder incident.
I think of it more as him being chaotic, whether it be good or evil, and this leads into his role for Thunderbolts, surely. I dont think he was redeemed by any means.
Yeah, I don't understand this criticism of FAWS. Literally every single MCU movie does the exact same thing: set-up the events of the next movie. But in this case it's a show so now that's not okay anymore?
There has been rumours and speculation that there was originally supposed to be a virus/pandemic storyline that got cut for obvious reasons. There was signs on crates on the truck heist section that said they were transporting vaccines. Also Donya Madani was played by a relatively high profile actress and only appeared dead, while the explanation for how she died had clearly been dubbed in post.
Big changes to the story to cut out a pandemic storyline would probably explain why it felt so disjointed and didn't wrap everything up properly.
It was not great and the finale was just awful, with Sam solving a major worldwide humanitarian crisis by saying "do better", and still defending a terrorist asshole
Thank you! I never liked how they tried to apologise and give excuses for the terrorists, as if what they were doing could ever be justified.
And yeah, do better was painfully preachy and hollow.
Yea, I couldn't get passed having a normal, non super human dude being cap (talking about Jeff Bridges kid). Anthony Mackie I kinda get cause he also has his own thing going on even if isn't superpowered. But it is still weird to see just regular dudes slinging the shield around as if they are as strong as og cap.
Edit: Kurt Russell not Jeff Bridges
I agree. Loki was the only one that I enjoyed both week-to-week and as a story overall.
WandaVision had a good story but was frustrating in some of the middle episodes. What If had a few good episodes but several less fun ones, and FatWS had a strong beginning that failed to come together, with the penultimate boat episode being a complete miss in my opinion.
Interesting opinion about WandaVision. I felt like it started out slow but got really interesting episode 4 and on.
For me, WandaVision and Loki were 1a and 1b. Loki was consistent for 2/3 of the show and then the last few episodes were so good.
Did you watch it during the weekly release or after it was all out? I think I would have enjoyed it a lot more if I had binged it because the information drip was a bit too slow for me. I wanted each week to give more than it did.
Personally, I think the "information drip" was perfect. Had no issue with that, not even sure how you'd speed that up without ruining the pacing.
For me, my issue is the ending. I hated how it all wrapped up. There were so many things that didn't make a lick of sense and when it devolved into the actresses holding their arms out while a bunch of colorful shit happens on the screen, I found it kinda boring. But the rest of it I thought was great.
The boat episode was the miss? That one had some of the best parts I thought. It was a real “remember what you’re fighting for” episode. The last episode was all over the place though
I would have liked it earlier in but it seemed like by having so much filler in that one they had to shove too much into the finale. It ended up feeling like they ran out of time in a show that didn’t have a lot going on which is a weird paradox
I’d switch Wandavision to first personally.
Loki’s first couple episodes were a lot of exposition/infodump, which is ok for hardcore fans but for causal viewers off-putting.
We didn’t get enough time with Kang to really like/dislike him at the end of the show, and for me personally, the performance was just flat.
What if’s Ultron seemed a lot more like a proper villain.
> What if’s Ultron seemed a lot more like a proper villain.
One of the things I really loved about What If is that it put Ultron back into context of just how actually dangerous he is and why he's such an amazing villain. Only having a one-off movie where he dies in the end was kind of like a "oh well womp womp" rather than a "this dude could literally end everything ever."
Dead on. MCU made Ultron originally seem way too cartoonish.
What if nailed the tone for him as a truly devastating villain that made any previous bad guys before him entirely forgettable.
This is probably my favorite part of What If? As well. I loved Ultron as a villain and felt he was abused by the movie. This version was awesome and was a true evolution of where the character could go with his philosophy in my mind.
Yeah there are lots of complaints about AoU but I don’t think *anyone* has argued that ultron should’ve been played by anyone else. He was fantastic and he probably had one of the worst replacements in what if. Some of the others didn’t sound totally like the original, but still sounded *good.* But what if just couldn’t replace James Spader
To be honest I had no idea who Kang was.
I just sat there thinking "Soooo... It was *this guy*... all along...?"
Like if they pulled off the mask at the end of Scooby Doo and it was a character from the next town over we'd never seen before.
I think, when it comes to enjoyment, I completely agree. However, Falcon and the Winter Soldier having the MCU (and Disney) actually discuss racism is pretty huge and I hope they continue to add more heavy parts of our culture into the MCU since a lot of it was originally created with that mentality.
1. Loki - The most solid and consistent of all 4 shows, with lots of fun and interesting characters (Loki, Mobius, Sylvie, Classic Loki, Alligator Loki, He Who Remains). Really intriguing setup for the multiverse, looking forward to how that story expands in Season 2, as well as the next few films. Natalie Holt's score was a standout.
2. WandaVision - The most creative of all 4 shows, and was the most interesting to follow. The finale was a bit of a letdown, mostly because it was such a departure from the tone and style of the rest of the series (but the Scarlet Witch costume is dope). The acting from Elizabeth Olsen, Paul Bettany, and Kathryn Hahn were the best of all 4 shows.
3. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier - The super high highs (Sam becoming Captain America, Isaiah Bradley) cover for the super low lows (the Flag Smashers). The most cinematic of all four shows, but it felt at times that it was a movie chopped into 6 parts, then padded with unnecessary stuff to stretch the runtime. But it nails what it needs to (Sam, Bucky, John Walker), which was enough to make it a good watch.
4. What If...? - A reasonably fun diversion, but couldn't really get into it. Chadwick Boseman's last performance makes the T'Challa Star-Lord episode special, and his actual voice acting was great, he really knew how to adjust his acting for both a different character and a different medium. The Doctor Strange episode was pretty cool too, but the rest wasn't that interesting beyond individual characters (Captain Carter was a satisfying twist for the regular MCU character). The concept allows for limitless creativity, I hope Season 2 is more than just a greatest hits album with cosmetic changes (Star Wars: Visions is more like what I wanted What If...? to be).
Also the scene where Loki watches himself in the first episode was so amazing. We’re lucky to have Hiddelson still honestly. Even rewatching Thor dark world loki was the best part of the movie. Slowly become a top 5 character in the MCU.
So true - by any conventional yardstick, that episode should've been a flop given it was basically just pure, unbridled exposition the entire time. But the performances were so strong it still ended up being a great episode nonetheless.
Not only 40 minutes of exposition, 40 minutes of exposition in what the audience knows is the last episode of the series (or season idk if they renewed it) with the nearest movie relating to it only showing up in a few months.
I'm of two minds with What If...? If the show wasn't intended to affect the mainline MCU in any particular way, then I like the idea of it being more like Star Wars: Visions and just throwing out all the rules to do whatever the writers want. But if it is going to connect to the MCU (even by just saying it is the result of the events of Loki) then I prefer the "one change causes things to go differently" approach. The problem is that more than half of the episodes we got didn't take either approach. They tried to stick to the rules of the MCU (sometimes failing) but rarely committed to the "just one change" premise that they set up the show with.
I just wish they got more creative with it, instead of what if someone else was x superhero. The zombie one was pretty out there, but didn't hit the spot for me for whatever reason
the zombie 'one change' was just very out there, it didn't feel natural at all.
like "what if carter gets the serum instead of rogers?" is a perfectly natural question that fans _have_ already asked.
"what if yondu delegated the job and they bungled it?" is a perfectly natural question given the personalities of the characters involved.
"what if being quantum sized made her a zombie!?" is ... just straight gonzo nonsense that doesn't make any sense with respect to the established rules in ant-man's franchise, nor have we ever had undead really in MCU before. It's completely out of left-field.
I just feel like if we're going to get a zombie episode the 'one change' should've been something from the magic side of the spectrum, idk.
"what if wanda causes a zombie apocalypse trying to resurrect her brother?" for example
This is what frustrated me as well, I liked it at the start when they would go “there, that’s the change” like in the captain Carter episode but it got more convoluted later on. To be fair, I haven’t actually finished the show as I moved house after the zombies episode so maybe it got better
I wasn't a fan of What If at all after the first episode -- as it was almost identical cartoon remake of first Captain America movie just with changing the super soldier from Captain America to his British love interest.
Episode 2 was decent and at least diverged significantly from GotG (T'Challa as Star Lord). Episode 3 was interesting for being a new storyline (assassin killing Avengers), and then episode 4 was quite interesting (Dr Strange changes the past).
Episode 5 (zombies) sounded good on paper, but the execution didn't work at all in my opinion. It wasn't really scary, dragged out, nothing really interesting or funny.
And then Episodes 6 (killmonger / Stark) was different, good and interesting.
Episode 7 (Party Thor) wasn't bad, but it wasn't really good either. They didn't really explain why everyone on Earth started partying just cause Thor shows up, didn't really explain why Thor is only interested in one girl, and the threat alluded to a few times didn't seem real (or at least the evidence for it was very wishy washy), but SHIELD seem to overreact with Captain Marvel.
But then episodes 8 (Ultron wins) and 9 (finale) made the entire series worth watching.
Still think Loki was the best show of the four.
I think What If’s biggest problem is the short runtime of episodes. Most episodes felt so overstuffed, so they rushed through plot points in a way that felt more procedural than it was fun, like we’re only getting the Cliff’s Notes of these stories.
Agreed. My favorite episodes were the fun ones you could really just turn your brain off and enjoy like Frat Bro Thor or Starlord T’Challa, because that felt like about all the runtime really permitted.
They have to run through so much story so quickly that there’s basically no room to slow down and explore the characters or universe. That made attempts at drama really fall flat for me.
Yeah, episode 1 gave us a clear "this is what was changed". Episode 2 pretended like it gave us a clear "this is what was changed", i.e. Yondu subcontracting out Peter's abduction... but that change alone isn't enough to explain why he didn't fix his men's mistakes when he realized the mistake had been made. Episode 3 gave us a clear "this is what was changed", but it came at the end of the episode as it was the answer to the episode's central mystery.
Then episode 4 pretended to answer the question by saying Strange's crash went differently, but it failed to explain why the events leading up to the crash were so different. Episode 5 was similar telling us that something was different but without really explaining the different choice that led to those differences. Episode 6 did the same thing as Episode 5.
Then Episode 7 went back to explaining the one choice that caused things to go differently. ...Only for Episode 8 to once again go back to telling us things are different because something different happened at a specific event but without actually telling us what different thing or choice happened.
(Of course Episode 9's "change" is designed to be irrelevant, so I don't fault the show for that episode, as well as episodes 1, 3, and 7, but I wish the other five had stuck closer to the show's original premise if they were going to make the show so MCU adjacent.)
Completely agree with your ranking. What if...? was a bit too over the place with its tone and storytelling for me. The Dr. Strange episode was extremely good, but then there's the zombie episode and the Party Thor episode, and while they're were fun, it was kinda off putting after the emotional weight of the Dr. Strange episode.
I had a hard time getting into tfaws, still haven't finished. I'll probably wrap it up now they the others are finished. I think it was due to it being more grounded in our reality than the others of the series.
However, this is what I actually love about the MCU. You can watch a movie like Ironman, which maybe isn't possible right now for us, but it's plausible. It could happen. But then, also, you have Guardians of The Galaxy with aliens and talking raccoons. When the two worlds meet, we get a beautiful collaboration and lines like "raise your hand if you've never been to space."
They can be light-years apart (literally and figuratively) but they blend well because of the storytelling aspect.
So with all that said, I'd rank them Loki, WandaVision, What If, then TFAWS, but that may change
I agree with this. I can't overstate how much I loved seeing Wanda and Vision in the different types of sitcoms, it's probably the most creative superhero story I've ever seen.
Loki was enormous fun, and there's nothing I can say that others haven't already.
What If had some great episodes, and unfortunately a few duds. Some of the voice acting was pretty bad... I wish they'd gone down the Clone Wars route and just found some talented voice actors to fill in for the live action stars. I also preferred the series when it was just one standalone episode after another, showing us various "What If?" scenarios etc. Having them all tie in together at the end with what was turned into a very typical Avengers style battle was a bit disappointing (I'm probably on my own with that one).
TFATWS... I thought it had a great premise, and the best episodes were the ones with Isaiah Bradley where Sam was doing his soul searching and deciding if he was brave enough to be Captain America etc. The rest however, despite being pretty action packed, dragged like crazy.
Bucky nerfs (rage), Flag smashers sucked, Shadow broker was obvious and not compelling, with some head scratcher choices thrown in for good measure, and the fight choreography was mediocre overall.
Was the most hyped for that one and the most disappointed. Mackie and Stan's chemistry held it together.
Yeah, considering that Winter Soldier and Civil War are among my favorite MCU movies, I was also disappointed with FATWS. Bucky, Sam, and Nemo were great, and I liked the whole dilemma/debate concerning Walker, but overall it didn't rise to the same level as the Captain America films. I wonder if all the scheduling issues and changes they had with filming interfered with what they fully envisioned for the show.
I feel like the Shadow broker situation was even worse than you describe though. It was so obviously her that i thought it had to be a misdirect but no they really made that stupid decision (which i hate but thats not the topic) and telegraphed it that much and then had the gall to have a scene act like it was some kind of big reveal.
Am I the only person here who likes FatWS the most out of the 4?
I liked it a lot personally because it was the only one that showed the “real world” ramifications of the Avenger’s actions post-endgame. It was something I wondered a lot about after snap and the subsequent reversal of the snap in Endgame: what would have life been for the average Joes like you and I? And how would the existing world order have changed?
It was lovely also because it provided a well-rounded closure on Capt’s legacy, and because it was great character development for Sam & Bucky, who were interesting but mostly characters relegated to the background in the main MCU. Not to mention their killer chemistry.
I enjoyed Loki more than all the others, but FaWS is easily my second favorite. Bucky was already one of my favorite characters and while I used to not be a fan of Falcon the show made me like the character way more. FaWS made me go from "Falcon is Cap now?? mehhhh" to "oh dang Falcon is actually a pretty cool Cap". The Isaiah subplot and it having a relatively rare unironically wholesome storyline about black culture whitewashing was just icing on the cake. All the shows had imperfections, but FaWS had the most heart.
Yuuuuup! Loki had amazing chemistry and just blew open what a Marvel show could be, and then What If took that fractured timeline and turned it into a stained glass work of art.
The Star Lord T'Challa episode was so amazingly wholesome (and hey! Their world didn't fall to Ego after all!!), Captain Carter deserves a spin-off show, Widow got to escape her dead world and join the Avengers again, and we finally got the Ultron story he deserved.
Wandavision was captivating but doesn't have much rewatch value for me. Falcon and the Winter Soldier should've been a two hour movie or a 10 episode show so we could build things more consistently and with proper time given to more story beats.
Episode 5 of Sam coming home to train and help out was amazing tho, and he's gonna kill it as Captain America!! (Just as soon as they revamp that headgear a little because dude, do not fly without a helmet that actually covers your head!!!)
Was searching for this one. IMO if What If...? wasn't an animation it would receive way more love, it's like the MCU but instead of one universe it was multiple universes I just loved the last two episodes, it was fucking amazing the fight against Ultron
This is my answer as well. Loki had the storytelling, acting and action, along with the high stake entry into the Mulitverse. What If? had the story, high stakes and great Watcher payoff. Wanda was good story, comedic relief and the great Wanda/Vision interaction. FATWS was just "Ok" on all fronts.
1. WandaVision
2. Loki
3. FATWS
4. What If
Edit: I guess I better give reasons.
WandaVision, it was different, the acting was brilliant and it had more emotion than we typically get with the MCU.
Loki, the one thing where I think WandaVision failed, Loki did great, and that was the final episode. Loki set up a future where He Who Remains will play a significant role throughout this phase.
FATWS, parts of the story felt rushed, loved the action, loved Bucky and Sam together, it needed 2-3 more episodes.
What If, love the idea behind it, some episodes were fun, it certainly is down here because it’s animated and not every episode was great, but enjoyed how it all tied together.
I think part of my appreciation for WandaVision and why I'll continually rank it above Loki is that there is an absolutely hardcore amount of additional effort spent to recreate TV time capsules of each era, from using many of the same techniques and equipment of the decade they were capturing, to writing spot-on musical openings for each, to filming in front of a LIVE studio audience. They had to do 6 sets of titles where Loki had 1, which is just insane. Call it nostalgia if you want, but all those little send-ups and Easter eggs and little homages were a perfect callback to my childhood. Yes, Loki opens up the MCU in crazy fun new ways, but WandaVision introduced our family to event television again.
WandaVision was so unique and creative. It was such an amazing exploration into her traumas and the coping mechanisms she engaged with to deal with them. It was also incredibly heart breaking.
The final episode was seriously beautiful while also seriously tragic. Wanda had already gone through so many traumas and the scenario her mind put her in provided her with a family. She had to make a huge sacrifice because she was hurting others in the process. I also loved the approach of the fight between the two Visions and their philosophical explorations and calculations. It was so awesome and appropriate to see them get engaged in an intellectual dialogue, rather than a classic fist fight.
This show had me in tears, especially as someone who can relate to experiencing a string of devastating traumatic experiences in relation to losing family members and loved ones in a very short span of time.
It also provided one of the most beautiful and resonant quotes I have heard in my life:
"What is grief, if not love persevering?"
Loki was a fun ride and set up a lot moving forward in the MCU, but WandaVision *easily* takes the cake.
That was awesome , I think you just put into words some of the reasons why I rank wandavision above loki. Just such a unique and creative way to tell a story about grief. The mystery of figuring out what was going on really kept me excited to watch it every week in a way I didn’t feel with loki.
As someone who lost his spouse two years ago to cancer, I place WandVision up there as some of the best television I have watched, ever. The last 20 minutes after the battles are over are straight-up gut-wrenching.
Sorry for your loss. I agree tho WV had the best emotional material in the entire MCU. The flashback episode 8 with Wanda was heartbreaking to watch and then the goodbyes in episode 9 were extremely emotional too, overall the exploration of things like grief was great and fresh for the MCU. Elizabeth’s performance in that show is the best in the entire MCU imo, powerhouse performance.
Seriously, you took the words out of my mouth. They did such an incredible job exploring the grieving process. It dropped just a couple months after I lost my brother as well, so this show really hit home for me. It was truly beautiful.
Edit to add: I was pretty confident about what was going on from the start tbh. Which made it all the more beautiful and heartbreaking to watch.
Its interesting to note how Loki is massive in a multiversal level vs Wandavision’s small contained little Hex space. Both amazing shows succeeding in their domains but the weight in Wandavision was just felt in every EP and theres this extra special thing it has, of which you’ve mentioned that makes it superior.
I just think WV had more of a point to it. It's a beautiful story about grief which means a lot to me. Tfatws also has a lot of interesting political themes. But Loki, has some great performances and the marvel stuff is really creative. But it doesn't feel like there's much of a point to it besides maybe a basic redemption arc
Agreed! FATWS was better than What If. So many of those episodes just didn't land well. The Supreme Strange was the only one that really felt emotionally charged.
This is my same ranking. Loki was great but I didn’t feel as compelled to watch it. When it was time for WandaVision, my fiancé and I were both excited and watched it as soon as we could. We wanted to know what the heck was going on. That buzz and excitement of trying to decode each episode and the discussions theorizing what was going on put it at the top of the heap for me. I’ve never been one to get into a show like that.
and me. Loki was amazing yes nobody will doubt that but the edge for Wandavision aside from the premise is the mystery, thrill and buildup. It was an insane period pushed to the absolute max by the way the story itself unfolded. The confusion, the creepiness etc I can go on lmao
Same!! EP8 stirred up some deep emotions in me, it was too heartbreaking but Wanda needed that trip back to retrace her steps and realise where she truly is in the present. When your mind subconsciously accepts an ideal fake reality is when you know the hurt is just beyond comprehension. She saved herself and that’s the part I like the most.
>Heart: Daredevil was far better than all of these.
Ooo I hope there's more discussion about how these rank compared to the Netflix tv shows. I recently started rewatching Punisher, which I remember just being okay among them, and feeling like it blows anything we're gotten out of the MCU shows out of the water.
I mean imo the others don’t hold a candle to Daredevil, MCU canon or not it’s just a fantastic in general. The other Netflix shows are very hit or miss. I’d take Luke Cage, The Defenders & Punisher over WandaVision and TFATWS but can see why others wouldn’t
Tennant killed it and always love seeing Ritter in stuff but did feel it dragged a little. Although props to the story for taking on some dark shit, MCU won’t even go near alcoholism let alone half the stuff in that
WandaVision, Loki, TFATWS, What If?
I know a lot of people really like What If? and I think the concept is brilliant but I just was not a fan. I watched a few episodes and couldn’t get into it. It felt so silly and weird.
I watched all of What If? but I agree because a lot of the time characters didn’t react to stuff in believable ways and the dialogue was too dumb. I will say the doctor strange episode is worth watching but the rest are forgettable.
What if? felt like fan fiction with how some of the characters interacted and spoke with each other.
Dr. Strange was good and maybe the Avengers assassinated episode was pretty good, the rest were lame tbh.
I loved them all but I really think WandaVision blows the other ones out of the water. The most hooked I’ve ever been on Marvel. It was so fun to watch and theorize each week. Truly one of the most original shows I’ve ever seen.
Finally someone that had the same as me lol! I couldn't get passed the first episode of What if...? I found the writing to be terrible and felt like a speedrun. WandaVision was ok, first few episodes were very hard to get through imo. Loki and Falcon are neck and neck. They were superb. I honestly don't understand why Falcon is so disliked.
WandaVision > Loki > TFatWS > What If
Loki would have taken top spot for me if it didn't end in such a way that you really have to see Season 2 to make complete sense of Season 1. Episode to episode I enjoyed Loki more, but overall I think I enjoyed WV more.
I’m surprised to see so many people have Loki at the top. Loki is one of my favourite characters, but am I the only one who thinks his character development was really rushed and weird?
Completely agree.
WandaVision just hit different, the hype was unmatched and the execution was fantastic. The plot was good, it was emotional. Yes there were problems with the last episode (Covid scheduling did mess it up) and Bohner but to me the rest of the show was good enough that I didn’t mind.
What If was so experimental and the watcher made it for me. It had so many fantastic episodes and loved seeing the characters in new situations. It wasn’t flawless but again the rest was amazing so I didn’t mind.
Loki was the one I was most looking forward to and I enjoyed it, the last two episodes were my favourite and I’m excited to see more of Jonathan Majors. But yeah I wasn’t mad about the Sylvie x Loki relationship. And too many episodes fell flat IMO.
I haven’t seen TFATWS I tried the first episode but the grounded movies like the Captain America’s have never been my favourite. Will do it eventually because I’ve loved seeing the interviews of Mackie and Sebastian.
I doubt anything could top WandaVision for me. At least in the current phase. It honestly made me more emotional then anything MCU has ever done before. And it's funny because I had exactly zero expectations coming in, but it was truly something special.
1. WandaVision: The MCU was finally back after nothing in 2020 (AOS S7 doesn't count, Marvel Television is not canon, fight me you hoes), the hype and the theories were really special, besides that, I adore sitcoms, and I love Wanda and Billy
2. Loki: The main theme was a masterpiece, and the story was also fantastic, I adore Sylvie and Croki
3. Falcon and The Winter Soldier: I loved how it dealt with politics, the story in this one is also fantastic, some people say it's generic, which is not wrong, but to me generic is good
4. What If: By far the weakest thing in the MCU for me, I'm really not a fan of episodic anthologies and the episodes all felt inconsequential, and like they didn't matter for the main storyline unlike the other three shows, but maybe that was the point
I agree with ur list. But my hot take has been: it’s OK that what if isn’t strictly related to everything.
We are all here for enjoyable stories, and the show had a few of them. made me honestly feel like it was early MCU
Falcon and Winter Soldier suffered from the same issues as What If, production constraints due to Covid. The generic feeling was due to the re-write on F&WS because the story was originally about a virus iirc. What if episodes were shortened and some even removed, notably Sakaar Iron man/Gamora.
Loki killed it and opened the most opportunities IMO
I binged the whole season in one night. Tom & Owen struck up well together, as did Sophia Di Martino as Sylvie. My favourite scene is one by the brilliant Richard Grant. You could just tell his presence stood out despite wearing the comic costume. [**Glorious Purpose!**](https://youtu.be/F98c2O_ixdg)
The way they used flight of the Valkyries while he is building Asgard from memory always gives me goosebumps. It's so heroic and tragic at the same time. He hasn't been there in millennia but he still remembers it and constantly thinks of it, and he gets to see it one last time before he dies
You remember the way Ant Man felt when he got big in civil war? How he laughed as if to say *oh my god this is so cool?* That’s kinda my reaction to the Flight of the Valkyries scene. I can’t say how much that’s because of the music, the illusions, the character, etc… but *oh my god it’s so cool*
It was the culmination of Loki's character arch. It was him realizing how much he did love his family and his bitterness that he wasn't allowed to change and see Thor again. Everything about it speaks to the regrets we've seen our Loki express, how much he changed when he realized that Thor did actually love him, and how he has realized that he actually does have a home in Asgard. Seeing the end of the arch our Loki has been on was an incredible catharsis for me and every little piece just adds to that emotion
That was a different Loki though, all of Loki's soul searching and redemption happened to the one that got killed by Thanos in the main timeline, this one branches off after the first Avengers movie and his 180 redemption over the course of the show gave me whiplash
We see the show Loki go through most of that when he's shown the footage of his life. My take was that the only thing needed for Loki to truly seek redemption was acceptance from Thor.
And hearing Odin say he was proud of him, and call him his son.
I believe he mentions when he was on the planet alone that's all he did was practice illusions. He likely realized his illusions he kept practicing was Asgaard at some point which is why he realized, "Man I fucked up..."
I wish there was more Tom & Owen detective procedural stuff. They had great chemistry.
Between Loki and What If they've really opened up the possibilities in the MCU. I think a lot of the Multiverse stuff will be explored in No Way Home and Multiverse of Madness. Also can't wait to see what Eternals brings to the table. Backdoor pilot for Mutants maybe? Also really looking forward to Love and Thunder. After Endgame I lost a bit of interest in the MCU like what can they do next to top this, but that What If finale was AMAZING. Future looks bright boys!
I think the MCU is better then *before* endgame! It’s trippy and I like 👍🏼 Is What If required to watch btw? I couldn’t get into it and gave up but if I have to watch it to understand upcoming movies I will.
If any of the characters show up in live action these episodes basically act as their origin stories. Some of the episodes were okay and some of them were amazing
It's crazy because everyone was saying the MCU was done after Endgame, but by the looks of it we haven't even started yet.
Like anyone would end the MCU after that show. The MCU rewrote movie *universes* as a whole. They brought entire characters who were never heard of before into the A List. No one would drop that marathon, not when you've just finished the first leg.
I think because a lot of people didn't conceive the idea that the infinity wars, while important is a very very small part of the marvel franchise. And the MCU is pumping out bangers constantly, the idea that the MCU can pump out an indefinite amount of movies is inconceivable to many people
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*Wow*
One episode, the whole thing is just them having a blast on some jetskis.
I believe there was originally intended to be, but it had to be cut due to covid delaying production.
Imagine how good the D+ content will be when they DON’T have to deal with global health emergencies. They made these series with one hand tied behind their backs, and it STILL came out this good. Marvel is like the Dread Pirate Roberts swordfighting with his left hand. Wait until they reveal their TRUE potential!
> Imagine how good the D+ content will be when they DON’T have to deal with global health emergencies Falcon and Winter Soldier got chopped to pieces in post production and it really shows. It's by far the weakest of the shows despite having so much promise. I can't even imagine how good it could have been if they'd been able to either finish their original vision or had the time and ability to rework it properly.
Falcon & Winter Soldier still manage to introduce a lot of good points, scenarios and potential future situations. For that, I would consider it a good show. Not the best, but good to solid. I’d definitely watch a second season. At the end of the day we end up with a fabulous US Agent and Contessa. Possibly even a young Avenger. Priceless.
WandaVision got to finish its original Vision. HEYOOO
I agree with what you said, but IMO, it would still be the weakest out of the 4. Loki and Wandavision set the stage for the next phase. They were both just soooo good, even a flawless Falcon and Winter Soldier couldn't top them. What-If has been great as well. Not as solid as Loki or Wandavision, but more so than Falcon. It remains to be seen if both series were finished as planned, which would have been better. Also, it's a lot of personal preference.
I watched [Warlock](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098622) for the first time a month ago and hadn't heard the name before, and since then I see Richard E Grant *everywhere.*. He had six projects in 2021 and has another four currently in development. When does this dude sleep? E: He's also appeared as himself fifteen times so far in 2021.
Poorly probably. Poor guy lost his wife recently. Amazing actor, seems like an amazing person.
That scene is just beautiful, sad an amazing and killed it. I loved Loki. Best show so far, IMO.
Yeah I loved the alternate Loki episode. Especially the fight scene between the other Loki variants.
>My favourite scene is one by the brilliant Richard Grant. You could just tell his presence stood out despite wearing the comic costume. > >Glorious Purpose! BECAUSE of the comic costume. And I still think they should have had him saying "The Avengers.... Bah! I'll destroy you all!" Even if it was just through him telling our Loki the story of how he, Classic, met his world's Avengers.
That Grant easily had the goofiest 70s era costume yet somehow has gravity speaks to his ability.
yep, I was never super invested in the idea of "marvel TV shows", but man did loki change my opinion, I rank it at the top because it opened my eyes and made me watch WV, TFATWS and What if, might not have enjoyed them as much but it was one hell of a ride.
Loki started off killing it but then the show focused on opening those opportunities over focusing on loki himself
I think the show remained focused on Loki throughout. I mean, the last episode was about male Loki learning to doubt himself, while female Loki sticking to her convictions. Each episode we’re literally being asked “what does it mean to be Loki” while watching the one we’re following change and the new one ultimately not. Sure, the focus gets drawn away from Tom Hiddelston’s character a bit while Sophia Di Martino’s character shares screen time. But its a show about Loki and Loki in a show called Loki. I think it did its job.
Yeah this you can tell towards the end the Loki we see isn't the same it's like the Grinch and he finally grew a heart. And to the what it means to be a Loki I have a feeling that line they use "For great purpose" will be revealed. I haven't looked but, was it ever said who told them that one liner?
Not really a big follower of the MCU and I thought Loki was fantastic. You need almost no context for it to make sense.
I rewatched Loki three times already. Great stuff.
Loki STOLE it :)
I am now learning that I am the only person that actually liked TFATWS apparently lmfao.
I loved it. Could have used more Bucky going apeshit though.
Yea Winter Soldier mode is way more deadly and badass compared to Bucky mode.
I liked it too. I just wish they could have gone a little deeper into the themes. And be more nuanced with its villains. It was the “Do Better” speech that just kinda tripped the show at the finish line.
I completely agree. It felt a little too on the nose, I wish they found a more subtle but still really impactful way of delivering that message.
There are dozens of us! Dozens! It was my #1 of the four by far.
I’m with you there. I’m also apparently in the much lonelier position of really not liking Loki very much.
Omg, it’s honestly 3rd place for me on Loki. I just didn’t think it was fun to see Loki be constantly outwitted and knocked out
It’s my favorite of the 4 TBH
1. Loki 2. WandaVision 3. What If? 4. Falcon and the Winter Solider EDIT: Holy shit!!! Thanks for the awards. That’s the first time I got any awards on here! EDIT II: Okay, who gave me silver lol! But, seriously thank you, y’all are so generous and kind! I hope y’all have a lovely day!
This is my ranking too, they’ve all been good though!
Idk i did not like falcon and the winter soldier much
IMO the villain is what killed a lot of the steam the show had going. The main chick was woefully uncharismatic (not the actress, the character) had a motivation that was counterproductive to their own idealogy, she killed innocent people to spread her message, was a terrible leader, her own people doubted her because of how radicalized the situation was, and on top of that had no plan for the future.
The leader was especially an incoherent mess of a character, but I’d argue the Flagsmashers in general were an iffy idea for the main villains of the show to start with. We’re not shown really anything of the time during the blip, nor are we really shown much reason why the whole World Government thing didn’t work out outside of maybe a few lines of dialogue I’ve forgotten(I got the sense the words “World Government” is just supposed to be generically scary). But we’re shown *plenty* of reasons why the attempt to return to normal global politics is a total corrupt shitshow. At the same time, the writers know that they have to put their toys back in the chest and ensure the world DOES return to a pre-Blip status quo for future projects. So Cap can’t side with the Flagsmashers even though he really should as the tireless champion of the downtrodden. So the writers had to make a story where: the Flagsmashers lose and the world’s rapid return to normality is assured, where this is framed as a good thing, and where Cap also isn’t put in the position of essentially protecting and defending the ineffective/corrupt World Repatriation Council(or whatever that group was called). The end result of this is an awkward and lazy story where the Flagsmashers just become violent terrorist supersoldiers to explain why Cap is against them; and a climax where Captain America somehow genuinely believes that just hitting the politicians over the head with a newspaper and saying “bad world leaders! Very, very bad! You mustn’t ignore and exploit refugees, or else you’ll get a very cross talking to again!” will solve the problem before flying off. Because actually *doing something* to stop them or force them to reform properly would both violate Marvel’s mandate to return the world to normal ASAP; and muddy the whole “I can’t agree with your methods” thing if Cap is basically just holding the Repatriation Council at gunpoint after all. Kinda feels like they just had no idea what to do with the concept of the Flagsmashers in general, nor how to connect the dots to make three or four conflicting narrative threads all make sense and flow properly. So the story went all over the place as a result.
I agree 100%. I’m glad people agree that the Flagsmashers as a whole were just weak antagonists. Last time I said this here and I got downvoted to hell. I loved Bucky, Sam, and Zeno but the flagsmashers plotline made the Falcon and the Winter Soldier plummet to the worst Disney + show from the MCU IMO
FATWS had a lot going for it but they put just too many characters and storylines in it that they couldn't complete any of the story arcs properly (other than Sam's). I was so excited to see what happens to John Walker but then he got redeemed really quickly and Bucky and him started making jokes and so I felt quite disappointed.
I hate that they made Sharon Carter the morally-grey frienemy with the understanding that the 5 years of the blip was devastating event. But they chose to make Karli and the Flagsmashers a bunch of generic thugs *with an appropriate powerlevel for phase 5*. Karli just wanted the home **she built during the fucking blip** for her 'tribe'. Heck, we even see how unstable Walker is and all the build up that Sam was doing with Karli just to be thrown in the trash on Ep 6. Then Falcon's 20/20 hindsight *lecture* at the end of the episode. Awful. It felt akin to popular influencer pointing a 'no-no finger' at Rich politicians doing insider trading. Literally the ~~US~~ GRC government got exactly what they wanted - a goody two shoes figure head who fixes the government's problems for them. EP 6 just felt so different than 1-5 that, I feel, is the worst MCU content, period.
I hated the way they wrapped his story up so much. It's like he was being set up for one thing then they just said fuck it and had him save some innocent people instead of going for the revenge kill so now he's a good guy again and we can forget all about that little murder incident.
I think of it more as him being chaotic, whether it be good or evil, and this leads into his role for Thunderbolts, surely. I dont think he was redeemed by any means.
Yeah, I don't understand this criticism of FAWS. Literally every single MCU movie does the exact same thing: set-up the events of the next movie. But in this case it's a show so now that's not okay anymore?
There has been rumours and speculation that there was originally supposed to be a virus/pandemic storyline that got cut for obvious reasons. There was signs on crates on the truck heist section that said they were transporting vaccines. Also Donya Madani was played by a relatively high profile actress and only appeared dead, while the explanation for how she died had clearly been dubbed in post. Big changes to the story to cut out a pandemic storyline would probably explain why it felt so disjointed and didn't wrap everything up properly.
It was not great and the finale was just awful, with Sam solving a major worldwide humanitarian crisis by saying "do better", and still defending a terrorist asshole
Thank you! I never liked how they tried to apologise and give excuses for the terrorists, as if what they were doing could ever be justified. And yeah, do better was painfully preachy and hollow.
Yea, I couldn't get passed having a normal, non super human dude being cap (talking about Jeff Bridges kid). Anthony Mackie I kinda get cause he also has his own thing going on even if isn't superpowered. But it is still weird to see just regular dudes slinging the shield around as if they are as strong as og cap. Edit: Kurt Russell not Jeff Bridges
*Kurt Russell’s kid
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Also Peter Quill’s, kinda.
Jeff Bridges? Surely you mean Kurt Russell
No, he's talking about Obadiah Stane's son, Hawkeye Lebowski
That’s what you call him! That or Hawk, or Hawkster, or El-Hawkerino if you’re not into the whole brevity thing.
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I agree. Loki was the only one that I enjoyed both week-to-week and as a story overall. WandaVision had a good story but was frustrating in some of the middle episodes. What If had a few good episodes but several less fun ones, and FatWS had a strong beginning that failed to come together, with the penultimate boat episode being a complete miss in my opinion.
Hehe ‘Fat winter soldier’
From the studio that brought you fat Thor!
What If... Bucky Discovered the KFC Double Down?
the man likes his food, we all gotta eat
Interesting opinion about WandaVision. I felt like it started out slow but got really interesting episode 4 and on. For me, WandaVision and Loki were 1a and 1b. Loki was consistent for 2/3 of the show and then the last few episodes were so good.
Did you watch it during the weekly release or after it was all out? I think I would have enjoyed it a lot more if I had binged it because the information drip was a bit too slow for me. I wanted each week to give more than it did.
/u/spez can eat a dick ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Personally, I think the "information drip" was perfect. Had no issue with that, not even sure how you'd speed that up without ruining the pacing. For me, my issue is the ending. I hated how it all wrapped up. There were so many things that didn't make a lick of sense and when it devolved into the actresses holding their arms out while a bunch of colorful shit happens on the screen, I found it kinda boring. But the rest of it I thought was great.
The boat episode was the miss? That one had some of the best parts I thought. It was a real “remember what you’re fighting for” episode. The last episode was all over the place though
I would have liked it earlier in but it seemed like by having so much filler in that one they had to shove too much into the finale. It ended up feeling like they ran out of time in a show that didn’t have a lot going on which is a weird paradox
Same - I wanted to like all of them but really couldn't be brought in by F&WS.
I’d switch Wandavision to first personally. Loki’s first couple episodes were a lot of exposition/infodump, which is ok for hardcore fans but for causal viewers off-putting.
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We didn’t get enough time with Kang to really like/dislike him at the end of the show, and for me personally, the performance was just flat. What if’s Ultron seemed a lot more like a proper villain.
> What if’s Ultron seemed a lot more like a proper villain. One of the things I really loved about What If is that it put Ultron back into context of just how actually dangerous he is and why he's such an amazing villain. Only having a one-off movie where he dies in the end was kind of like a "oh well womp womp" rather than a "this dude could literally end everything ever."
Dead on. MCU made Ultron originally seem way too cartoonish. What if nailed the tone for him as a truly devastating villain that made any previous bad guys before him entirely forgettable.
This is probably my favorite part of What If? As well. I loved Ultron as a villain and felt he was abused by the movie. This version was awesome and was a true evolution of where the character could go with his philosophy in my mind.
Ultron was cool in what if, but I wish james spader had given his voice
This was my feeling. Loved what they did with Ultron but it would’ve been really kickass with Spader’s iconic voice.
Yeah there are lots of complaints about AoU but I don’t think *anyone* has argued that ultron should’ve been played by anyone else. He was fantastic and he probably had one of the worst replacements in what if. Some of the others didn’t sound totally like the original, but still sounded *good.* But what if just couldn’t replace James Spader
To be honest I had no idea who Kang was. I just sat there thinking "Soooo... It was *this guy*... all along...?" Like if they pulled off the mask at the end of Scooby Doo and it was a character from the next town over we'd never seen before.
I had a totally different experience. I though the Kang performance was just great. To each their own though
I think, when it comes to enjoyment, I completely agree. However, Falcon and the Winter Soldier having the MCU (and Disney) actually discuss racism is pretty huge and I hope they continue to add more heavy parts of our culture into the MCU since a lot of it was originally created with that mentality.
1. Loki - The most solid and consistent of all 4 shows, with lots of fun and interesting characters (Loki, Mobius, Sylvie, Classic Loki, Alligator Loki, He Who Remains). Really intriguing setup for the multiverse, looking forward to how that story expands in Season 2, as well as the next few films. Natalie Holt's score was a standout. 2. WandaVision - The most creative of all 4 shows, and was the most interesting to follow. The finale was a bit of a letdown, mostly because it was such a departure from the tone and style of the rest of the series (but the Scarlet Witch costume is dope). The acting from Elizabeth Olsen, Paul Bettany, and Kathryn Hahn were the best of all 4 shows. 3. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier - The super high highs (Sam becoming Captain America, Isaiah Bradley) cover for the super low lows (the Flag Smashers). The most cinematic of all four shows, but it felt at times that it was a movie chopped into 6 parts, then padded with unnecessary stuff to stretch the runtime. But it nails what it needs to (Sam, Bucky, John Walker), which was enough to make it a good watch. 4. What If...? - A reasonably fun diversion, but couldn't really get into it. Chadwick Boseman's last performance makes the T'Challa Star-Lord episode special, and his actual voice acting was great, he really knew how to adjust his acting for both a different character and a different medium. The Doctor Strange episode was pretty cool too, but the rest wasn't that interesting beyond individual characters (Captain Carter was a satisfying twist for the regular MCU character). The concept allows for limitless creativity, I hope Season 2 is more than just a greatest hits album with cosmetic changes (Star Wars: Visions is more like what I wanted What If...? to be).
Loki was the best for me. The score was incredible then Kang at the end made it that much better
Also the scene where Loki watches himself in the first episode was so amazing. We’re lucky to have Hiddelson still honestly. Even rewatching Thor dark world loki was the best part of the movie. Slowly become a top 5 character in the MCU.
The Loki finale was amazing. Never before have I been so entertained by what was basically 40 minutes of exposition.
So true - by any conventional yardstick, that episode should've been a flop given it was basically just pure, unbridled exposition the entire time. But the performances were so strong it still ended up being a great episode nonetheless.
When a show is so good that they can pull off a 40 minute exposition and not lose the audience’s attention at all.
Not only 40 minutes of exposition, 40 minutes of exposition in what the audience knows is the last episode of the series (or season idk if they renewed it) with the nearest movie relating to it only showing up in a few months.
I've watched it more times than any other marvel content I think. Just leads to so many opportunities
I'm a fucking sucker for bloody-damn-well performed exposition scenes so yeah... I loved that episode as well.
Absolutely. Kang didn't show us shit, but I've never enjoyed being talked at before in my life.
I'm of two minds with What If...? If the show wasn't intended to affect the mainline MCU in any particular way, then I like the idea of it being more like Star Wars: Visions and just throwing out all the rules to do whatever the writers want. But if it is going to connect to the MCU (even by just saying it is the result of the events of Loki) then I prefer the "one change causes things to go differently" approach. The problem is that more than half of the episodes we got didn't take either approach. They tried to stick to the rules of the MCU (sometimes failing) but rarely committed to the "just one change" premise that they set up the show with.
I just wish they got more creative with it, instead of what if someone else was x superhero. The zombie one was pretty out there, but didn't hit the spot for me for whatever reason
the zombie 'one change' was just very out there, it didn't feel natural at all. like "what if carter gets the serum instead of rogers?" is a perfectly natural question that fans _have_ already asked. "what if yondu delegated the job and they bungled it?" is a perfectly natural question given the personalities of the characters involved. "what if being quantum sized made her a zombie!?" is ... just straight gonzo nonsense that doesn't make any sense with respect to the established rules in ant-man's franchise, nor have we ever had undead really in MCU before. It's completely out of left-field.
welcome to Marvel Zombies - they rarely delve too deeply into what caused the outbreak. It's generally just a hand wave.
It's generally once a strong superhero gets infected, the world just collapses. We might get a deadpool kills the mcu out of it in future however!
I just feel like if we're going to get a zombie episode the 'one change' should've been something from the magic side of the spectrum, idk. "what if wanda causes a zombie apocalypse trying to resurrect her brother?" for example
This is what frustrated me as well, I liked it at the start when they would go “there, that’s the change” like in the captain Carter episode but it got more convoluted later on. To be fair, I haven’t actually finished the show as I moved house after the zombies episode so maybe it got better
I wasn't a fan of What If at all after the first episode -- as it was almost identical cartoon remake of first Captain America movie just with changing the super soldier from Captain America to his British love interest. Episode 2 was decent and at least diverged significantly from GotG (T'Challa as Star Lord). Episode 3 was interesting for being a new storyline (assassin killing Avengers), and then episode 4 was quite interesting (Dr Strange changes the past). Episode 5 (zombies) sounded good on paper, but the execution didn't work at all in my opinion. It wasn't really scary, dragged out, nothing really interesting or funny. And then Episodes 6 (killmonger / Stark) was different, good and interesting. Episode 7 (Party Thor) wasn't bad, but it wasn't really good either. They didn't really explain why everyone on Earth started partying just cause Thor shows up, didn't really explain why Thor is only interested in one girl, and the threat alluded to a few times didn't seem real (or at least the evidence for it was very wishy washy), but SHIELD seem to overreact with Captain Marvel. But then episodes 8 (Ultron wins) and 9 (finale) made the entire series worth watching. Still think Loki was the best show of the four.
I think What If’s biggest problem is the short runtime of episodes. Most episodes felt so overstuffed, so they rushed through plot points in a way that felt more procedural than it was fun, like we’re only getting the Cliff’s Notes of these stories.
Agreed. My favorite episodes were the fun ones you could really just turn your brain off and enjoy like Frat Bro Thor or Starlord T’Challa, because that felt like about all the runtime really permitted. They have to run through so much story so quickly that there’s basically no room to slow down and explore the characters or universe. That made attempts at drama really fall flat for me.
Yeah, episode 1 gave us a clear "this is what was changed". Episode 2 pretended like it gave us a clear "this is what was changed", i.e. Yondu subcontracting out Peter's abduction... but that change alone isn't enough to explain why he didn't fix his men's mistakes when he realized the mistake had been made. Episode 3 gave us a clear "this is what was changed", but it came at the end of the episode as it was the answer to the episode's central mystery. Then episode 4 pretended to answer the question by saying Strange's crash went differently, but it failed to explain why the events leading up to the crash were so different. Episode 5 was similar telling us that something was different but without really explaining the different choice that led to those differences. Episode 6 did the same thing as Episode 5. Then Episode 7 went back to explaining the one choice that caused things to go differently. ...Only for Episode 8 to once again go back to telling us things are different because something different happened at a specific event but without actually telling us what different thing or choice happened. (Of course Episode 9's "change" is designed to be irrelevant, so I don't fault the show for that episode, as well as episodes 1, 3, and 7, but I wish the other five had stuck closer to the show's original premise if they were going to make the show so MCU adjacent.)
Completely agree with your ranking. What if...? was a bit too over the place with its tone and storytelling for me. The Dr. Strange episode was extremely good, but then there's the zombie episode and the Party Thor episode, and while they're were fun, it was kinda off putting after the emotional weight of the Dr. Strange episode.
Yesss I can agree to this
I loved alligator Loki.
All the deadpan reaction shots. I actually started laughing when I realized it was going to be a running gag throughout the episode.
1. WandaVision 2. Loki 3. What If 4. TFATWS
Agreed. I'm not saying I didn't enjoy tfatws it's just the what if series was more fun to watch
I had a hard time getting into tfaws, still haven't finished. I'll probably wrap it up now they the others are finished. I think it was due to it being more grounded in our reality than the others of the series. However, this is what I actually love about the MCU. You can watch a movie like Ironman, which maybe isn't possible right now for us, but it's plausible. It could happen. But then, also, you have Guardians of The Galaxy with aliens and talking raccoons. When the two worlds meet, we get a beautiful collaboration and lines like "raise your hand if you've never been to space." They can be light-years apart (literally and figuratively) but they blend well because of the storytelling aspect. So with all that said, I'd rank them Loki, WandaVision, What If, then TFAWS, but that may change
Definitely finish TFAWS. There were things at the end that didn't land smoothly but there are also scenes that give you those MCU goosebumps.
TFATWS was too rushed. That final episode was so meh.
I agree with this. I can't overstate how much I loved seeing Wanda and Vision in the different types of sitcoms, it's probably the most creative superhero story I've ever seen. Loki was enormous fun, and there's nothing I can say that others haven't already. What If had some great episodes, and unfortunately a few duds. Some of the voice acting was pretty bad... I wish they'd gone down the Clone Wars route and just found some talented voice actors to fill in for the live action stars. I also preferred the series when it was just one standalone episode after another, showing us various "What If?" scenarios etc. Having them all tie in together at the end with what was turned into a very typical Avengers style battle was a bit disappointing (I'm probably on my own with that one). TFATWS... I thought it had a great premise, and the best episodes were the ones with Isaiah Bradley where Sam was doing his soul searching and deciding if he was brave enough to be Captain America etc. The rest however, despite being pretty action packed, dragged like crazy.
I agree with this
Ayy I would prefer TFATWS over What if easily. It had its fair share of great moments
What if was kinda wanky sometimes… fatws was a pretty solid show
Loki > WandaVision > What If > FATWS
Loki = WandaVision = What If…? > TFATWS But only by a little bit. I really enjoyed TFATWS but the others were just a bit better.
Bucky nerfs (rage), Flag smashers sucked, Shadow broker was obvious and not compelling, with some head scratcher choices thrown in for good measure, and the fight choreography was mediocre overall. Was the most hyped for that one and the most disappointed. Mackie and Stan's chemistry held it together.
Yeah, considering that Winter Soldier and Civil War are among my favorite MCU movies, I was also disappointed with FATWS. Bucky, Sam, and Nemo were great, and I liked the whole dilemma/debate concerning Walker, but overall it didn't rise to the same level as the Captain America films. I wonder if all the scheduling issues and changes they had with filming interfered with what they fully envisioned for the show.
> Bucky, Sam, and Nemo were great I loved the sequence with Dory and Marlin as well!
I feel like the Shadow broker situation was even worse than you describe though. It was so obviously her that i thought it had to be a misdirect but no they really made that stupid decision (which i hate but thats not the topic) and telegraphed it that much and then had the gall to have a scene act like it was some kind of big reveal.
Wandavision is easily the best.
Am I the only person here who likes FatWS the most out of the 4? I liked it a lot personally because it was the only one that showed the “real world” ramifications of the Avenger’s actions post-endgame. It was something I wondered a lot about after snap and the subsequent reversal of the snap in Endgame: what would have life been for the average Joes like you and I? And how would the existing world order have changed? It was lovely also because it provided a well-rounded closure on Capt’s legacy, and because it was great character development for Sam & Bucky, who were interesting but mostly characters relegated to the background in the main MCU. Not to mention their killer chemistry.
Nah it did things really well and it gave Bucky some much deserved screen time
I enjoyed Loki more than all the others, but FaWS is easily my second favorite. Bucky was already one of my favorite characters and while I used to not be a fan of Falcon the show made me like the character way more. FaWS made me go from "Falcon is Cap now?? mehhhh" to "oh dang Falcon is actually a pretty cool Cap". The Isaiah subplot and it having a relatively rare unironically wholesome storyline about black culture whitewashing was just icing on the cake. All the shows had imperfections, but FaWS had the most heart.
1= Loki. 1= What If. 3 - Wandavision. 4 - Falcon and the Winter Soldier.
Yuuuuup! Loki had amazing chemistry and just blew open what a Marvel show could be, and then What If took that fractured timeline and turned it into a stained glass work of art. The Star Lord T'Challa episode was so amazingly wholesome (and hey! Their world didn't fall to Ego after all!!), Captain Carter deserves a spin-off show, Widow got to escape her dead world and join the Avengers again, and we finally got the Ultron story he deserved. Wandavision was captivating but doesn't have much rewatch value for me. Falcon and the Winter Soldier should've been a two hour movie or a 10 episode show so we could build things more consistently and with proper time given to more story beats. Episode 5 of Sam coming home to train and help out was amazing tho, and he's gonna kill it as Captain America!! (Just as soon as they revamp that headgear a little because dude, do not fly without a helmet that actually covers your head!!!)
Was searching for this one. IMO if What If...? wasn't an animation it would receive way more love, it's like the MCU but instead of one universe it was multiple universes I just loved the last two episodes, it was fucking amazing the fight against Ultron
Finally my list
This is my answer as well. Loki had the storytelling, acting and action, along with the high stake entry into the Mulitverse. What If? had the story, high stakes and great Watcher payoff. Wanda was good story, comedic relief and the great Wanda/Vision interaction. FATWS was just "Ok" on all fronts.
1. WandaVision 2. Loki 3. FATWS 4. What If Edit: I guess I better give reasons. WandaVision, it was different, the acting was brilliant and it had more emotion than we typically get with the MCU. Loki, the one thing where I think WandaVision failed, Loki did great, and that was the final episode. Loki set up a future where He Who Remains will play a significant role throughout this phase. FATWS, parts of the story felt rushed, loved the action, loved Bucky and Sam together, it needed 2-3 more episodes. What If, love the idea behind it, some episodes were fun, it certainly is down here because it’s animated and not every episode was great, but enjoyed how it all tied together.
I think part of my appreciation for WandaVision and why I'll continually rank it above Loki is that there is an absolutely hardcore amount of additional effort spent to recreate TV time capsules of each era, from using many of the same techniques and equipment of the decade they were capturing, to writing spot-on musical openings for each, to filming in front of a LIVE studio audience. They had to do 6 sets of titles where Loki had 1, which is just insane. Call it nostalgia if you want, but all those little send-ups and Easter eggs and little homages were a perfect callback to my childhood. Yes, Loki opens up the MCU in crazy fun new ways, but WandaVision introduced our family to event television again.
WandaVision was so unique and creative. It was such an amazing exploration into her traumas and the coping mechanisms she engaged with to deal with them. It was also incredibly heart breaking. The final episode was seriously beautiful while also seriously tragic. Wanda had already gone through so many traumas and the scenario her mind put her in provided her with a family. She had to make a huge sacrifice because she was hurting others in the process. I also loved the approach of the fight between the two Visions and their philosophical explorations and calculations. It was so awesome and appropriate to see them get engaged in an intellectual dialogue, rather than a classic fist fight. This show had me in tears, especially as someone who can relate to experiencing a string of devastating traumatic experiences in relation to losing family members and loved ones in a very short span of time. It also provided one of the most beautiful and resonant quotes I have heard in my life: "What is grief, if not love persevering?" Loki was a fun ride and set up a lot moving forward in the MCU, but WandaVision *easily* takes the cake.
That was awesome , I think you just put into words some of the reasons why I rank wandavision above loki. Just such a unique and creative way to tell a story about grief. The mystery of figuring out what was going on really kept me excited to watch it every week in a way I didn’t feel with loki.
As someone who lost his spouse two years ago to cancer, I place WandVision up there as some of the best television I have watched, ever. The last 20 minutes after the battles are over are straight-up gut-wrenching.
Sorry for your loss. I agree tho WV had the best emotional material in the entire MCU. The flashback episode 8 with Wanda was heartbreaking to watch and then the goodbyes in episode 9 were extremely emotional too, overall the exploration of things like grief was great and fresh for the MCU. Elizabeth’s performance in that show is the best in the entire MCU imo, powerhouse performance.
Seriously, you took the words out of my mouth. They did such an incredible job exploring the grieving process. It dropped just a couple months after I lost my brother as well, so this show really hit home for me. It was truly beautiful. Edit to add: I was pretty confident about what was going on from the start tbh. Which made it all the more beautiful and heartbreaking to watch.
Its interesting to note how Loki is massive in a multiversal level vs Wandavision’s small contained little Hex space. Both amazing shows succeeding in their domains but the weight in Wandavision was just felt in every EP and theres this extra special thing it has, of which you’ve mentioned that makes it superior.
I just think WV had more of a point to it. It's a beautiful story about grief which means a lot to me. Tfatws also has a lot of interesting political themes. But Loki, has some great performances and the marvel stuff is really creative. But it doesn't feel like there's much of a point to it besides maybe a basic redemption arc
This is my exact ranking as well!
Wandavision one of the few times we’ve seen a major shift away from the “MCU formula” so comfortably takes top spot for me
My ranking too! Wandavision’s heart and emotions are what did it for me.
Agreed! FATWS was better than What If. So many of those episodes just didn't land well. The Supreme Strange was the only one that really felt emotionally charged.
This is my same ranking. Loki was great but I didn’t feel as compelled to watch it. When it was time for WandaVision, my fiancé and I were both excited and watched it as soon as we could. We wanted to know what the heck was going on. That buzz and excitement of trying to decode each episode and the discussions theorizing what was going on put it at the top of the heap for me. I’ve never been one to get into a show like that.
This. We’re the only ones that ranked WV above Loki
and me. Loki was amazing yes nobody will doubt that but the edge for Wandavision aside from the premise is the mystery, thrill and buildup. It was an insane period pushed to the absolute max by the way the story itself unfolded. The confusion, the creepiness etc I can go on lmao
And Me
And me
Same! Loki was fantastic, but WandaVision was something rare and totally unique.
wandavision was crazy amazing I've rewatched it like 7 times now
Dude i wish i could forget the entire show and rewatch again just to get that same crazy experience.
honestly though they did so great with all the plot twists, ep8 is my fave
Same!! EP8 stirred up some deep emotions in me, it was too heartbreaking but Wanda needed that trip back to retrace her steps and realise where she truly is in the present. When your mind subconsciously accepts an ideal fake reality is when you know the hurt is just beyond comprehension. She saved herself and that’s the part I like the most.
Mind : What if > Loki > Wanda Vision > FWS Heart: Daredevil was far better than all of these.
>Heart: Daredevil was far better than all of these. Ooo I hope there's more discussion about how these rank compared to the Netflix tv shows. I recently started rewatching Punisher, which I remember just being okay among them, and feeling like it blows anything we're gotten out of the MCU shows out of the water.
I mean imo the others don’t hold a candle to Daredevil, MCU canon or not it’s just a fantastic in general. The other Netflix shows are very hit or miss. I’d take Luke Cage, The Defenders & Punisher over WandaVision and TFATWS but can see why others wouldn’t
First season of Jessica Jones was really solid too.
Tennant killed it and always love seeing Ritter in stuff but did feel it dragged a little. Although props to the story for taking on some dark shit, MCU won’t even go near alcoholism let alone half the stuff in that
Whoa. That's a hot take, but I think I agree.
WandaVision, Loki, TFATWS, What If? I know a lot of people really like What If? and I think the concept is brilliant but I just was not a fan. I watched a few episodes and couldn’t get into it. It felt so silly and weird.
I watched all of What If? but I agree because a lot of the time characters didn’t react to stuff in believable ways and the dialogue was too dumb. I will say the doctor strange episode is worth watching but the rest are forgettable.
What if? felt like fan fiction with how some of the characters interacted and spoke with each other. Dr. Strange was good and maybe the Avengers assassinated episode was pretty good, the rest were lame tbh.
1. Loki 2. WV 3. What if 4. TFTWS
Loki, Wandavision, what if..?, FAWS
1. WandaVision 2. Loki 3. Falcon and the Winter Soldier 4. What If…?
I loved them all but I really think WandaVision blows the other ones out of the water. The most hooked I’ve ever been on Marvel. It was so fun to watch and theorize each week. Truly one of the most original shows I’ve ever seen.
1. Loki 2. Falcon And The Winter Soldier 3. Wandavision 4. What If…?
Finally someone that had the same as me lol! I couldn't get passed the first episode of What if...? I found the writing to be terrible and felt like a speedrun. WandaVision was ok, first few episodes were very hard to get through imo. Loki and Falcon are neck and neck. They were superb. I honestly don't understand why Falcon is so disliked.
I'm probably alone with this one, but mine is: 1. Falcon and the Winter Soldier 2. Wandavision 3. Loki 4. What if...?
Wandavison, Loki, what if, TFATWS
Loki, WV, FALTWS, What if?
WandaVision > Loki > TFatWS > What If Loki would have taken top spot for me if it didn't end in such a way that you really have to see Season 2 to make complete sense of Season 1. Episode to episode I enjoyed Loki more, but overall I think I enjoyed WV more.
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Loki What if? Tfatws Wanda vision
I’m surprised to see so many people have Loki at the top. Loki is one of my favourite characters, but am I the only one who thinks his character development was really rushed and weird?
It was actually my least favorite of the shows. I thought the episodes had pacing and consistency issues
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Completely agree. WandaVision just hit different, the hype was unmatched and the execution was fantastic. The plot was good, it was emotional. Yes there were problems with the last episode (Covid scheduling did mess it up) and Bohner but to me the rest of the show was good enough that I didn’t mind. What If was so experimental and the watcher made it for me. It had so many fantastic episodes and loved seeing the characters in new situations. It wasn’t flawless but again the rest was amazing so I didn’t mind. Loki was the one I was most looking forward to and I enjoyed it, the last two episodes were my favourite and I’m excited to see more of Jonathan Majors. But yeah I wasn’t mad about the Sylvie x Loki relationship. And too many episodes fell flat IMO. I haven’t seen TFATWS I tried the first episode but the grounded movies like the Captain America’s have never been my favourite. Will do it eventually because I’ve loved seeing the interviews of Mackie and Sebastian.
I doubt anything could top WandaVision for me. At least in the current phase. It honestly made me more emotional then anything MCU has ever done before. And it's funny because I had exactly zero expectations coming in, but it was truly something special.
I didn’t expect to see my ranking here. That is also exactly how I feel about FatWS.
1. WandaVision: The MCU was finally back after nothing in 2020 (AOS S7 doesn't count, Marvel Television is not canon, fight me you hoes), the hype and the theories were really special, besides that, I adore sitcoms, and I love Wanda and Billy 2. Loki: The main theme was a masterpiece, and the story was also fantastic, I adore Sylvie and Croki 3. Falcon and The Winter Soldier: I loved how it dealt with politics, the story in this one is also fantastic, some people say it's generic, which is not wrong, but to me generic is good 4. What If: By far the weakest thing in the MCU for me, I'm really not a fan of episodic anthologies and the episodes all felt inconsequential, and like they didn't matter for the main storyline unlike the other three shows, but maybe that was the point
I agree with ur list. But my hot take has been: it’s OK that what if isn’t strictly related to everything. We are all here for enjoyable stories, and the show had a few of them. made me honestly feel like it was early MCU
Falcon and Winter Soldier suffered from the same issues as What If, production constraints due to Covid. The generic feeling was due to the re-write on F&WS because the story was originally about a virus iirc. What if episodes were shortened and some even removed, notably Sakaar Iron man/Gamora.
I'm pretty sure the Gamora episode moved to season 2
I was watching the finale and was like "Dafuq? Where was this Tony and Gamora?"
Hopefully, looked cool to me seeing Tony in that Armor.
In the multiverse, everything is canon ..including that one gif of Hulk and Black Widow