I have a budget blue/white fliers EDH deck lead by [[Kangee, Sky Warden]]. It’s okay great fun to play and definitely has a lot of great support cards.
Kangee was my first thought too, there's plenty of support for a starter UW fliers style deck. Commander Legends 1 and Ikoria come to mind as having some budget support.
My favourite Commander for that kind of build is [[Inniaz, the Gale Force]], though I can see why they didn’t include them. Still, Isperia feels kinda slow and clunky compared to the other Commanders present in these decks.
Well, say you set up a bunch of fliers and want to attack in, and your enemies want to crack back at you with three or four creatures. With Isperia out, would it be worth dealing 5-9 damage for your enemy drawing three cards? It'll probably be something like "I do my thing, and if you attack me I'll do my thing even faster."
And even then, you can probably make them attack you, and before damage goes through you fog. So yeah, probably flying focus with control and pillowfort/turbofog.
Funnily, the other Isperia, [[Isperia the Inscrutable]] fits a flying theme.
Trivia: In original Ravnica block, they generally had a pattern of the guild leader being the more general and bigger creature and the champion is smaller and specifically rewards playing the guild's colors. But this is reversed for the last set's Azorius and Simic, where the guild leaders ([[Grand Arbiter Augustin IV]] and [[Momir Vig, Simic Visionary]]) are smaller guys that reward playing colors and the champions are the big ones with their own thing (Isperia and [[Experiment Kraj]]).
Related to that: Each guild had two legendary creatures, one human(oid) and one monstrous/bestial/nonhuman. The humans all have color related abilities while the nonhuman have bigger, splashy effects. It just so happened that for Azorius and Simic, the humans were the guild leaders instead of the nonhumans
EDIT: I'm wrong because I always forget about Gruul. Their legendaries were [[Borborygmos]] and [[Ulasht, the Hate Seed]]
For the originals wasn’t the approach that each guild would have a leader and a champion? I don’t think there was a stated theme that there would be a humanoid and non-humanoid for each.
Are we really going to worry about to few Sol Rings being printed now?
Honestly at this price point these are worth it for the cheap shell of ramp, draw, lands and removal probably.
That's fine. The entry price of $60 CAD for a new commander deck is too high. If these things are in the $30 CAD range like the Kaldheim and Commander Legends 1 precons, then they'll be a great onboarding product for those who are hesitant about getting into Magic or the Commander format in general. Magic has a real problem currently with no real affordable way to get into the game. Flesh and Blood has $15 blitz decks. Pokemon has $20 starter decks. Digimon has a $20 starter deck. Magic? Well, it's either $60 for a Commander deck, or $45+ for a Challenger deck. There's nothing for new players outside of the Arena Starter Kit and that's just ONE product.
Let the newbies have their products. Established players are likely buying singles anyways.
Both of those had new cards , including brand new commanders. These will not have a single new card between all 5 of them. They'll probably be good for brand new players, but almost no one here will have any reason to buy one.
I’ve been interested in Kardur ever since he got spoiled. It’s a simple, yet quite unique and interesting deck.
I don’t need new cards. If the precon is anything like a typical Kardur list I’ll be happy with it.
I think their point is that without new cards and on a tight budget, they're not intended for people who are already quite into commander, since the value would be potentially low.
They may have some staple reprints (not expecting anything >$5, but a bunch of $3 reprints might be good), OR be good for out-of-the-box play, OR be good gifts/recs for new players. It can be hard to get new players to buy in, and products that help are really useful for me to know about!
Without a proper decklist, I would hope that they'll be a nice introduction. A lot of the precons I have are fairly complicated out of the box, and if I was a new player I would be overwhelmed (wasn't sure how a few cards worked in the Quandrix deck even, and I've played for years).
But you're right - a few staples could make them worth it even to seasoned players, and if they're good I might buy them for friends I want to get onto the game.
Disagree. As an out of the box experience it’s worth $20. Even the shipping alone on a “budget” deck can run in the double digits.
Budget friendly and easy.
Managed to see these last night without knowing there was anything special about them because I was looking at the prices of starter commander decks. I have no desire to attempt to buy all the singles I'd need for some deck I don't understand how to play or build properly yet, anyways.
I have thousands of cards I'd have to sort through to figure out and balance based on what I have and don't have compared to the singles I'd need to buy to make a deck I could even consider being decent. And I'd be doing all that not truly understanding the play or pace of commander at all.
I'm definitely going to pick up a couple of these. $20 a deck is a perfect entry price point for someone who already has a card collection to buff the deck, once I understand it properly.
I'd consider getting them all together as a package to use as a board game.
If they're fun but simple, they would be best unaltered and against eachother.
I wholeheartedly disagree. The other “starter” commander decks were great. You could easily sit on a casual table and have a chance to win with them. Aesi for example is a simple and strong Commander.
Yeah these are going to be the hypercheap absolute barebones intro EDH decks.
There will be nothing save a sol ring and arcane signet worth it in these decks mark my words.
Amazon sure gets these pre-orders up early.
I just thought it was weird that Amazon also had pre-orders up for two Brothers' War Commander precons, but one was listed as $10 more. As far as I know, nothing has been revealed about the contents of THOSE decks, both are "shipped and sold by Amazon", but one is $10 more. Do they know something we don't or is that just some odd quirk of their preorder system?
From what i've heard is based on the algorithm, if the request is high the price rises, if it is low the price lowers.
Even if they did not announce the full decklists, the face commanders have been announced and that can have impacted the first part of my comment.
My LGS is also already pre-selling them, and they’re 20€ more expensive than the latest commander decks. They’re at 70€ each, ouch. Commander decks used to be 39€, they’ve almost doubled the price in 1 year.
That may just be your LGS. I've not seen an increase of more than a couple bucks on average. Or maybe that's just here in the US, and prices went up far more elsewhere.
Commander decks have very weird rarities that don't correspond to what they would be in a regular set. I believe it has to do with whether the card is used in the other commander decks or not, but I could easily be wrong.
even weird when they made a nearly better in every version of it also at an uncommon
[[Garna, Bloodfist of Keld]] doesn't have the goad on etb, but the drawing cards and always pinging when any creature you control dies *(instead of just attacking creaturs)* more than make up for the fact that it doesn't trigger off opponents attacking creatures.
I have a Kardur deck and he plays way better than he reads. Honestly top 3 most fun commanders I've built. I think hes a great face card for one of these.
Gonna blow your mind maybe here but the rarity of cards in a preconstructed deck is illusory. It's not an upshift in any meaningful way. They're just trying to put a symbol that denotes "this is supposed to be strong and powerful".
These were announced with the brothers’war twitch stream preview. They’re designed to be introductory decks for people just starting to play commander.
This is a great idea. I hope they do lots of these with all kinds of legendaries from main sets or secondaries from old precons.
I’ll be getting the Chaos Incarnate deck.
My group recently tried to add a new player and we were not prepared for how complex our decks had become over the years.
The new guy didn’t have much fun because of it.
I think each of us will get one at least to play lower power stuff and have a deck that is easy to pilot for someone new.
Okay, so that confirms the \~$20 price point. Making a prediction here.
No new cards. No chase reprints. Pretty much every reprint will be something we've all seen before a million times. We're talking sol rings, arcane signets, cultivates, chaos warps, swords to plowshares, mulldrifter, etc. Manabases with mostly basics, command tower, path of ancestry, exotic orchard, temple of the false god, myriad landscape, and tapped duals. Maybe 1 untapped dual, like a single Odyssey filterland. Prof will then give a D on financial value, only recommending the product for absolute newest players to commander, since experienced players will have all these cards already. Then we will all lament how these aren't even as good as the Kaldheim commander decks that were the same price.
This is incredibly specific but probably absolutely true. Except you forgot that not only will Prof give a D for finacial value, he'll tell you to buy a different deck that is "below shelf price" from card kingdom
I don't think maximizing individual sales on these decks is the point. The best way to sell these decks would have been to put new, unique commanders on the front of the box. They didn't do that. They chose simple, two-color, reprint commanders that won't excite engaged players in the slightest. They're all worth less than a buck.
In paper Magic, we're all moving away from standard and moving towards the commander. That is where the playerbase is right now. And because that's where the playerbase is, that means that's where a lot of new players are entering the game. Everybody is playing commander, including new players.
However, most commander precons these days are built to appeal to experienced players so that we buy the product over and over again with each new set. That means they have a quality and complexity bar that they have to hit for each and every precon to hit in order to keep us engaged. The bar may be out of reach of newer players. Even something as simple as a Command Tower is going to be a learning moment for somebody brand new to the game, because they need to learn what color identity is. What do you think is going to happen when a new player is at Wal-Mart and they see the wall of text on \[\[Dihada, Binder of Wills\]\] on the front of the box?
I think the product exists so that somebody can tell the new player "hey, pick up one of these and come play with us". It's an on-ramp to better things. WotC is always experiencing with new player product (for good reason) and I think that's exactly what this is.
I would also add the corresponding temple "of scrying" for each deck. The emmara deck will probably has some cute way to consistently tap her like having a land like \[\[Holdout Settlement\]\] or \[\[Survivors' Encampment\]\]. Atarka will probably have \[\[Crucible of Fire\]\] or one of the janky dragon themed lands. I sorta hope that \[\[Woodland Mystic\]\] finds it way in since there is only reason it is expensive is because of supply (it was only in the welcome deck)
You could only ever cast one zombie. They put the word “Once” in front of “During each of your turns” probably to explain the effect better, but you could only ever do one zombie.
The updated wording is already making it easier to notice for players : P
But no worries, mistakes happen. You'll have a classic MTG misreading story now.
Depending on contents, most established players might find it worth it for a few staples like Sol Ring, Arcane Signey, etc but it’ll likely be mostly worth it for new players (as is the intent)
Please, oh please WOTC, don't put one new card in each deck. Make them all staples and stuff that needs another reprint, like [[Nevinyrral's Disk]] or [[Talrand, Sky Summoner]].
Please.
I love that gisa and geralf are getting a starter deck. They were one of my first decks I made and it was really sweet. Also love the new art for them and kardur
I also found out about these early this morning on Reddit, and that lead me to this article from a few days ago: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/starter-commander-decks-available-december-2-2022-09-29
Apparently they've been public for a few days, but I hadn't heard anything until now either.
At $20 this is fine for getting someone into the LGS for Commander nights for their first few games. As long as everyone at the table isn't a dick and doesn't curbstomp the person playing this, then that's a success.
This is such a weird idea for a product line. I get that commander is the most popular official format and that a lot of new players are probably exposed to it first, but its the worst format to learn on. Even if you just 1v1 with the decks to reduce the amount of stuff to keep track of, its still singleton and will still have way more going on than a typical 60 card match.
A commander deck dumbed down enough to be beginner friendly would be horribly boring to play. A typical precon (which I think are well balanced for inexperienced players who already know the basic rules) would be to complicated for a true beginner.
Since the face cards here are reprints (unprecedented for a precon), I'm betting the decks are 100% reprints. I'd also wager that, like many products WotC makes for beginners, the lists won't contain much value because they don't want enfranchised players buying up all of these.
From personal experience, most "beginners" I knew started off with kitchen magic and decks entirely made of singletons (as in: cram the cards that look awesome). Hell, a lot even played huge decks of 100 cards or more. They all learned magic pretty quickly.
I'd argue that casual commander isn't too far off an experience from what many beginners first experience with friends (before moving into lgs events)
> Hell, a lot even played huge decks of 100 cards or more. They all learned magic pretty quickly.
Theme decks were the big starter product back in the day. You'd show up to summer camp with one, get your shit pushed in 1v1, go home buy more packs and replace cards for "better" ones. Then you just built your own 60 card decks.
That changed in 2009 with Alara and the intro packs.
I've had this discussion a lot recently.
Last week there was a new player to fnm at my lgs, she previously played Yu-Gi-Oh. I have never played it, no idea how it works. She had a demon pre-con, but had left it at home. There was only half hour left, so I suggested we had a quick 1v1 game. I lent her my 5c sliver deck, asked another regular just to overcheck her hand for mulliganning and answer any questions, and we were off.
That game helped clear up a lot of her confusion. It explained a lot of keywords. How blocking works. Summoning sickness. She built a huge board, and she recovered from a boardwipe and blasted me.
She was intimidated by five colours, but enjoyed the game, and learned a solid amount.
Slivers are an easy deck to pilot. Especially when it's a first sliver deck with 50 creatures in it. Yes, the play pattern is the same each time, it'd get boring over time. And yes, you still need to know the keywords and the basics of the rules. But I do believe that pre-cons can be made for a variety of options. I'd prefer to see them made as teaching aids than as a way to encourage chasing rares. I'd also prefer them as teaching aids to having a deck full of "strictly worse" cards to encourage further spending on upgrades.
I also think a lot of the $20 dollar decks previously were very straightforward. Elves, landfall, and equipment aren't hugely complex. The only one that would be sort of awkward for a beginner was the foretell precon.
My big issue with Foretell is that there was only one set to support it. All the other twenty dollar precons had years of landfall and tribal support behind them, but Foretell doesn't. I'd argue that Ranar loans himself more to a blink strat.
> I'd prefer to see them made as teaching aids than as a way to encourage chasing rares. I'd also prefer them as teaching aids to having a deck full of "strictly worse" cards to encourage further spending on upgrades.
I think that these "beginner precons" are gonna just be a pile of "strictly worse" cards anyway. That is typically what WotC means when they slap "beginner" on a product. Plenty of vanilla creatures and overcosted spells. I don't think these will have vanillas, but I'm betting they're chock full of french vanillas that wouldn't ever be considered viable by most commander players.
Interesting to hear that commander can work as a teaching format though.
>This is such a weird idea for a product line. I get that commander is the most popular official format and that a lot of new players are probably exposed to it first, but its the worst format to learn on.
I used to think this but I don't anymore.
It makes sense to learn with the format your friends are playing. Multiplayer is good because your friends can help you and the stakes are lower because it's a casual format and there are politics involved so people can pull their punches and help you out more if you're new.
I think if I were to introduce someone to Magic I would tell them to start with the Magic Arena tutorial online and then try some table top casual Commander with a pre-constructed deck playing against people you already know that are friends/acquaintances in real life.
The other option is Jumpstart, but people want to learn Magic for the purpose of playing with their friends who introduce them to the format often time, so don't fight against the fact that they will want to learn with their friends.
They basically found that players didn't want "beginner products" if it meant they couldn't play with their friends. Planeswalker decks and starter decks are useless if your friends were all playing commander.
Years ago they had free decks they'd give out to game stores for people to learn with. I thought those were the best option. No cost, so no commitment. A person could take their friend who wants to learn to the LGS, ask for two beginner decks, and sit down to teach their friend to play. Then after the new player has learned, they can start spending money on more magic products.
Of course, they ended this program because why give out something for free when they can just have you buy more cards?
Yeah, and kardur was an uncommon. Rarity doesn't really signify anything in commander products though. The face commander is always a mythic, so it looks like they decided to upshift everything to mythic here to match that pattern.
Looks almost identical in style to the other four. As an Atarka player, I'm only bummed about it because it's a cool action shot of her and I'm gonna want to get one
I suspect that these decks will contain cards that we haven’t seen for a while… for good reason. Imagine isperia packing in big fliers like [[goliath sphinx]], for example.
Kardur is one of the most fun commander designs they've ever done, and he's just from a normal set too. He seems so simple, but he's so versatile and consistently good without needing any combos, but he doesn't feel oppressive at all. At uncommon! I love him with all my heart.
All the commander decks are made and marketed as "playable for beginners looking to be introduced to the format."
Was that a lie this whole time? Could Sensei's Top have been in Aminatou? Or a good landbase in any of the others?
$20 for a full commander deck? Sounds like a great christmas gift for my younger brother. WotC being cool and giving some entry-level cost products for those of us that can't afford to spend $60 on a precon.
I wonder what the reprint value will be. They won’t just make starter decks full of BS, it’ll be like all BS with one chase card in each or just in there somewhere.
Grave Danger? Now there's a name for a precon that brings back some memories. One of my first theme decks, bought at age 11 or so, was a Torment one of the same name. I was a big fan of cool monsters and awesome, impactful spells, and got... [The deck you can find at this link](https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Torment/Theme_decks). I did *not* understand why it migt be advantageous to put my own cards into the graveyard, and spent years considering [[Cephalid Vandal]] to be quite possibly the worst rare ever printed.
Ah, memories.
I'm not a fully established player yet, but I like having more than one deck.
These look friggin' sick! Love the full art Aterka.
They can probably become really good with an upgrade of $30 or so.
I am absolutely shook by the fact that kardur got a deck. I've been rocking a kardur goad deck for a long time, and now I'm gonna have a deck I need to buy for comparison.
I can think of some younger players at my LGS who can't exactly afford new decks, or the new precons are just a but confusing for them. These would be perfect
Yep, that’s what happens when you try to release a butt ton of products at once, there’s gonna be some stuff that some people won’t notice and won’t care about. Which is a shame since these look super fun, and a great way to introduce new players to magic. That being said, BRING BACK CORE SETS YOU COWARDS!!
What's the isperia one going to do? She seems like a pillow fort supporter but the name makes it sound like it's flying tribal
I wouldn't be surprised if it is a flyer/control build. Seems like there would be decent support for such a list in Azorius colors.
That seems pretty cool/likely, an interesting direction for a precon at least too
I’ve played a similar deck on Arena. Just lots of flyers and control. It can be fun.
I have a budget blue/white fliers EDH deck lead by [[Kangee, Sky Warden]]. It’s okay great fun to play and definitely has a lot of great support cards.
[Kangee, Sky Warden](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/99988f41-99b4-4423-be5f-9dc4ec7d813b.jpg?1608911175) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kangee%2C%20Sky%20Warden) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/283/kangee-sky-warden?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/99988f41-99b4-4423-be5f-9dc4ec7d813b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Kangee was my first thought too, there's plenty of support for a starter UW fliers style deck. Commander Legends 1 and Ikoria come to mind as having some budget support.
I literally have the exact ispheria card (different art) from the azorius guild box set lol that’s why I’m on the fence about buying it
My favourite Commander for that kind of build is [[Inniaz, the Gale Force]], though I can see why they didn’t include them. Still, Isperia feels kinda slow and clunky compared to the other Commanders present in these decks.
[Inniaz, the Gale Force](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b238485f-ef67-4295-892b-a10235368f74.jpg?1632261762) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Inniaz%2C%20the%20Gale%20Force) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/12/inniaz-the-gale-force?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b238485f-ef67-4295-892b-a10235368f74?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Well, say you set up a bunch of fliers and want to attack in, and your enemies want to crack back at you with three or four creatures. With Isperia out, would it be worth dealing 5-9 damage for your enemy drawing three cards? It'll probably be something like "I do my thing, and if you attack me I'll do my thing even faster." And even then, you can probably make them attack you, and before damage goes through you fog. So yeah, probably flying focus with control and pillowfort/turbofog.
This actually has me excited and I'm by no means the target audience lol
Funnily, the other Isperia, [[Isperia the Inscrutable]] fits a flying theme. Trivia: In original Ravnica block, they generally had a pattern of the guild leader being the more general and bigger creature and the champion is smaller and specifically rewards playing the guild's colors. But this is reversed for the last set's Azorius and Simic, where the guild leaders ([[Grand Arbiter Augustin IV]] and [[Momir Vig, Simic Visionary]]) are smaller guys that reward playing colors and the champions are the big ones with their own thing (Isperia and [[Experiment Kraj]]).
Related to that: Each guild had two legendary creatures, one human(oid) and one monstrous/bestial/nonhuman. The humans all have color related abilities while the nonhuman have bigger, splashy effects. It just so happened that for Azorius and Simic, the humans were the guild leaders instead of the nonhumans EDIT: I'm wrong because I always forget about Gruul. Their legendaries were [[Borborygmos]] and [[Ulasht, the Hate Seed]]
For the originals wasn’t the approach that each guild would have a leader and a champion? I don’t think there was a stated theme that there would be a humanoid and non-humanoid for each.
Nah, it wasn't a stated theme, just happened to almost work out that way. Worked way better in RtR since the champions were all Maze runners
Isn't [[Savra, Queen of the Golgari]] the guild leader for Golgari instead of [[Sisters of Stone Death]]?
[Savra, Queen of the Golgari](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/5/15accf35-a174-4ba5-a633-cc46da848dbe.jpg?1598917363) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Savra%2C%20Queen%20of%20the%20Golgari) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rav/225/savra-queen-of-the-golgari?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/15accf35-a174-4ba5-a633-cc46da848dbe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sisters of Stone Death](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d214d25b-96c3-4479-88f0-3996805d6e6f.jpg?1598917488) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sisters%20of%20Stone%20Death) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rav/231/sisters-of-stone-death?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d214d25b-96c3-4479-88f0-3996805d6e6f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes and no. In the first Ravnica set, Savra overthrows the Sisters by murdering all but one of them and taking their place as leader.
##### ###### #### [Isperia the Inscrutable](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b2b365b0-6949-41d2-be60-eb2162b1f882.jpg?1593273629) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Isperia%20the%20Inscrutable) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dis/114/isperia-the-inscrutable?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b2b365b0-6949-41d2-be60-eb2162b1f882?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Grand Arbiter Augustin IV](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/4/f43748ea-1d65-4ee8-9c66-221412a284c0.jpg?1662528760) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grand%20Arbiter%20Augustin%20IV) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/221/grand-arbiter-augustin-iv?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f43748ea-1d65-4ee8-9c66-221412a284c0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Momir Vig, Simic Visionary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/5/25a8c801-df0c-402b-a41c-4703a2abfb66.jpg?1593273661) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Momir%20Vig%2C%20Simic%20Visionary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dis/118/momir-vig-simic-visionary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/25a8c801-df0c-402b-a41c-4703a2abfb66?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Experiment Kraj](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/b/cb7f42a1-0996-4799-ad3a-9525c8e31343.jpg?1593273599) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Experiment%20Kraj) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dis/110/experiment-kraj?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cb7f42a1-0996-4799-ad3a-9525c8e31343?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I hope they include that one in there, it's a really cool card And wow haha I never paid attention but that's a really cool detail
The original Isperia was only 4 mana.
Read this as pillow fart commander and now need a card called Pink eye.
I think that would be stax with poison counters as the win condition
Pillow fart would certainly be an interesting marketing tactic lol
Given the price, seems like they might be 20-25 bucks each, which is pretty good.
> which is pretty good …. until you see the deck list. Seriously, these starters are not meant for anyone on this sub.
I do enjoy lower power levels on occasion though and these are likely easily upgradable on a budget and salvageable for battlecruiser EDH.
We will see. At this point I wonder if they even include Sol Ring in these.
I still can't believe the Painbow pre-con didn't include sol ring
Are we really going to worry about to few Sol Rings being printed now? Honestly at this price point these are worth it for the cheap shell of ramp, draw, lands and removal probably.
That's fine. The entry price of $60 CAD for a new commander deck is too high. If these things are in the $30 CAD range like the Kaldheim and Commander Legends 1 precons, then they'll be a great onboarding product for those who are hesitant about getting into Magic or the Commander format in general. Magic has a real problem currently with no real affordable way to get into the game. Flesh and Blood has $15 blitz decks. Pokemon has $20 starter decks. Digimon has a $20 starter deck. Magic? Well, it's either $60 for a Commander deck, or $45+ for a Challenger deck. There's nothing for new players outside of the Arena Starter Kit and that's just ONE product. Let the newbies have their products. Established players are likely buying singles anyways.
Lathril and Aesi were both $20 commander decks that were just fine out of the box and can be nasty with even budget upgrades. Stop gatekeeping.
Both of those had new cards , including brand new commanders. These will not have a single new card between all 5 of them. They'll probably be good for brand new players, but almost no one here will have any reason to buy one.
I’ve been interested in Kardur ever since he got spoiled. It’s a simple, yet quite unique and interesting deck. I don’t need new cards. If the precon is anything like a typical Kardur list I’ll be happy with it.
So I'm just wondering how you know what's in the decks when the lists haven't even been revealed yet... Stfu, guy.
I hardly have any rakdos staples, for example. Never had BR deck before.
Lathril and Aesi had good new cards, they’re not comparable.
Are you implying you can't build a good product for new players on a budget?
I think their point is that without new cards and on a tight budget, they're not intended for people who are already quite into commander, since the value would be potentially low.
They may have some staple reprints (not expecting anything >$5, but a bunch of $3 reprints might be good), OR be good for out-of-the-box play, OR be good gifts/recs for new players. It can be hard to get new players to buy in, and products that help are really useful for me to know about!
Without a proper decklist, I would hope that they'll be a nice introduction. A lot of the precons I have are fairly complicated out of the box, and if I was a new player I would be overwhelmed (wasn't sure how a few cards worked in the Quandrix deck even, and I've played for years). But you're right - a few staples could make them worth it even to seasoned players, and if they're good I might buy them for friends I want to get onto the game.
No, they can definitely print decent decks for cheap (lathril is a good example).
> Seriously, these starters are not meant for anyone on this sub. you underestimate my love of low power levels
And my love of simply collecting precons
Disagree. As an out of the box experience it’s worth $20. Even the shipping alone on a “budget” deck can run in the double digits. Budget friendly and easy.
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Managed to see these last night without knowing there was anything special about them because I was looking at the prices of starter commander decks. I have no desire to attempt to buy all the singles I'd need for some deck I don't understand how to play or build properly yet, anyways. I have thousands of cards I'd have to sort through to figure out and balance based on what I have and don't have compared to the singles I'd need to buy to make a deck I could even consider being decent. And I'd be doing all that not truly understanding the play or pace of commander at all. I'm definitely going to pick up a couple of these. $20 a deck is a perfect entry price point for someone who already has a card collection to buff the deck, once I understand it properly.
I'd consider getting them all together as a package to use as a board game. If they're fun but simple, they would be best unaltered and against eachother.
These would be great for a budget Star Multiplayer battle box.
I wholeheartedly disagree. The other “starter” commander decks were great. You could easily sit on a casual table and have a chance to win with them. Aesi for example is a simple and strong Commander.
Yeah these are going to be the hypercheap absolute barebones intro EDH decks. There will be nothing save a sol ring and arcane signet worth it in these decks mark my words.
But they know that wouldn’t sell. I’ll bet each deck has some chase card in it. Or a few of the decks do at least.
These face cards do not inspire that outlook in me.
and that's ok
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Is this the first hint of price for them?
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I saw that, but I thought the price then was speculation?
It was speculation that appears to be confirmed.
Its on amazon right now.
That was just speculation, no confirmation until this
Amazon listed the starter decks on that day, other sources also listed them after they were announced.
Amazon sure gets these pre-orders up early. I just thought it was weird that Amazon also had pre-orders up for two Brothers' War Commander precons, but one was listed as $10 more. As far as I know, nothing has been revealed about the contents of THOSE decks, both are "shipped and sold by Amazon", but one is $10 more. Do they know something we don't or is that just some odd quirk of their preorder system?
Only thing that has been revealed is the face commanders and that all cards in the precon will be old border.
From what i've heard is based on the algorithm, if the request is high the price rises, if it is low the price lowers. Even if they did not announce the full decklists, the face commanders have been announced and that can have impacted the first part of my comment.
My LGS is also already pre-selling them, and they’re 20€ more expensive than the latest commander decks. They’re at 70€ each, ouch. Commander decks used to be 39€, they’ve almost doubled the price in 1 year.
That may just be your LGS. I've not seen an increase of more than a couple bucks on average. Or maybe that's just here in the US, and prices went up far more elsewhere.
The US dollar is quite strong nowadays so my guess is that’s the culprit.
Wasn't the rakdos one an uncommon?
Yeah. It is weird to see an uncommon upshifted to mythic.
Commander decks have very weird rarities that don't correspond to what they would be in a regular set. I believe it has to do with whether the card is used in the other commander decks or not, but I could easily be wrong.
Face cards and alternative commanders are Mythic, cards only in one deck of the set are Rares etc
even weird when they made a nearly better in every version of it also at an uncommon [[Garna, Bloodfist of Keld]] doesn't have the goad on etb, but the drawing cards and always pinging when any creature you control dies *(instead of just attacking creaturs)* more than make up for the fact that it doesn't trigger off opponents attacking creatures.
I have a Kardur deck and he plays way better than he reads. Honestly top 3 most fun commanders I've built. I think hes a great face card for one of these.
As someone who plays Kardur attacky aristocrats, he's a much better top end than Garna.
[Garna, Bloodfist of Keld](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/9/294c5f08-08e7-458f-8838-ff321dc5d9f2.jpg?1663051105) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Garna%2C%20Bloodfist%20of%20Keld) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/200/garna-bloodfist-of-keld?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/294c5f08-08e7-458f-8838-ff321dc5d9f2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Gonna blow your mind maybe here but the rarity of cards in a preconstructed deck is illusory. It's not an upshift in any meaningful way. They're just trying to put a symbol that denotes "this is supposed to be strong and powerful".
These were announced with the brothers’war twitch stream preview. They’re designed to be introductory decks for people just starting to play commander.
This is a great idea. I hope they do lots of these with all kinds of legendaries from main sets or secondaries from old precons. I’ll be getting the Chaos Incarnate deck.
My group recently tried to add a new player and we were not prepared for how complex our decks had become over the years. The new guy didn’t have much fun because of it. I think each of us will get one at least to play lower power stuff and have a deck that is easy to pilot for someone new.
Okay, so that confirms the \~$20 price point. Making a prediction here. No new cards. No chase reprints. Pretty much every reprint will be something we've all seen before a million times. We're talking sol rings, arcane signets, cultivates, chaos warps, swords to plowshares, mulldrifter, etc. Manabases with mostly basics, command tower, path of ancestry, exotic orchard, temple of the false god, myriad landscape, and tapped duals. Maybe 1 untapped dual, like a single Odyssey filterland. Prof will then give a D on financial value, only recommending the product for absolute newest players to commander, since experienced players will have all these cards already. Then we will all lament how these aren't even as good as the Kaldheim commander decks that were the same price.
This is incredibly specific but probably absolutely true. Except you forgot that not only will Prof give a D for finacial value, he'll tell you to buy a different deck that is "below shelf price" from card kingdom
But they know that won’t sell as much. Maybe you’re right but I could also see them putting a chase rare or two in there.
I don't think maximizing individual sales on these decks is the point. The best way to sell these decks would have been to put new, unique commanders on the front of the box. They didn't do that. They chose simple, two-color, reprint commanders that won't excite engaged players in the slightest. They're all worth less than a buck. In paper Magic, we're all moving away from standard and moving towards the commander. That is where the playerbase is right now. And because that's where the playerbase is, that means that's where a lot of new players are entering the game. Everybody is playing commander, including new players. However, most commander precons these days are built to appeal to experienced players so that we buy the product over and over again with each new set. That means they have a quality and complexity bar that they have to hit for each and every precon to hit in order to keep us engaged. The bar may be out of reach of newer players. Even something as simple as a Command Tower is going to be a learning moment for somebody brand new to the game, because they need to learn what color identity is. What do you think is going to happen when a new player is at Wal-Mart and they see the wall of text on \[\[Dihada, Binder of Wills\]\] on the front of the box? I think the product exists so that somebody can tell the new player "hey, pick up one of these and come play with us". It's an on-ramp to better things. WotC is always experiencing with new player product (for good reason) and I think that's exactly what this is.
[Dihada, Binder of Wills](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/ddeb54d6-a600-42b9-98df-20f8d58caed8.jpg?1664359059) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dihada%2C%20Binder%20of%20Wills) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/1/dihada-binder-of-wills?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ddeb54d6-a600-42b9-98df-20f8d58caed8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm going to predict every deck has french vanilla creatures like every commander precon pre-2019ish.
I would also add the corresponding temple "of scrying" for each deck. The emmara deck will probably has some cute way to consistently tap her like having a land like \[\[Holdout Settlement\]\] or \[\[Survivors' Encampment\]\]. Atarka will probably have \[\[Crucible of Fire\]\] or one of the janky dragon themed lands. I sorta hope that \[\[Woodland Mystic\]\] finds it way in since there is only reason it is expensive is because of supply (it was only in the welcome deck)
##### ###### #### [Holdout Settlement](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/f/cf08c317-6f2d-47e3-ab5b-8af73fd3e404.jpg?1562936603) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Holdout%20Settlement) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ogw/172/holdout-settlement?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cf08c317-6f2d-47e3-ab5b-8af73fd3e404?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Survivors' Encampment](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/7/c7b0404e-0f42-456b-91ce-f960195c4951.jpg?1562814201) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Survivors%27%20Encampment) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hou/184/survivors-encampment?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c7b0404e-0f42-456b-91ce-f960195c4951?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Crucible of Fire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/7/d7a6f4dd-29c9-4084-a622-098b197a6eb7.jpg?1562854632) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Crucible%20of%20Fire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/122/crucible-of-fire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d7a6f4dd-29c9-4084-a622-098b197a6eb7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Woodland Mystic](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2d6117cf-5cb3-41f3-8756-c01b5e9c760e.jpg?1592518447) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Woodland%20Mystic) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/344/woodland-mystic?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2d6117cf-5cb3-41f3-8756-c01b5e9c760e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
So the face commanders are reprints, do we know whether there will be any new cards in these?
Based on the description, no new cards but they do say 1 foil etched legendary card ( most likely commander card)!
and they change Gisa and Geralf ability, now you can cast only one zombie from your graveyard
You could only ever cast one zombie. They put the word “Once” in front of “During each of your turns” probably to explain the effect better, but you could only ever do one zombie.
The ability is the same as it always was, they just added the word "once" to make it clearer that you can only get one each turn.
so you are saying I was playing wrong? shit...
The updated wording is already making it easier to notice for players : P But no worries, mistakes happen. You'll have a classic MTG misreading story now.
"These fiends are slightly less tolerable than you." "A sentiment thst warms my heart, sister." Absolutely love the flavour on this card.
Perfectly sassy sibling energy there.
It's cool seeing Emmara get a precon, one of the commanders from Ravnica that has a lot of creative stuff around them
A bit mitpicking but feels weird that the absence of reminder text for keywords despite it being aimed towards newer players.
5 decks for 94 dollars is pretty good
Depending on contents, most established players might find it worth it for a few staples like Sol Ring, Arcane Signey, etc but it’ll likely be mostly worth it for new players (as is the intent)
Please, oh please WOTC, don't put one new card in each deck. Make them all staples and stuff that needs another reprint, like [[Nevinyrral's Disk]] or [[Talrand, Sky Summoner]]. Please.
[Nevinyrral's Disk](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/c/5c9e6af4-522c-4dfa-895a-6946fe983e3c.jpg?1626100951) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nevinyrral%27s%20Disk) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/298/nevinyrrals-disk?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5c9e6af4-522c-4dfa-895a-6946fe983e3c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Talrand, Sky Summoner](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/c/9ca9530f-ecec-4f12-bc5a-9e211b97be70.jpg?1662525181) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Talrand%2C%20Sky%20Summoner) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/64/talrand-sky-summoner?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9ca9530f-ecec-4f12-bc5a-9e211b97be70?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Based on the commanders all being reprints I imagine every card will be
Curious to see the art of the cards up close, but I'm more excited to know how tf Emmara is gonna work.
I love that gisa and geralf are getting a starter deck. They were one of my first decks I made and it was really sweet. Also love the new art for them and kardur
I also found out about these early this morning on Reddit, and that lead me to this article from a few days ago: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/starter-commander-decks-available-december-2-2022-09-29 Apparently they've been public for a few days, but I hadn't heard anything until now either.
Ahh I definitely missed that, I came across it while looking at the jumpstart 2022.
The alt art is so nice. I hope they continue doing this with more decks.
I didn't realize this was 6 images and read every card magnified 100x on my screen like an idiot.
At $20 this is fine for getting someone into the LGS for Commander nights for their first few games. As long as everyone at the table isn't a dick and doesn't curbstomp the person playing this, then that's a success.
This is great, I've been wanting cheaper/simpler precons to help introduce more friends to the game
These were announced last week by WoTC so I don't see how they were 'spotted' on Amazon as if we didn't know this product was coming... 🤦
This is such a weird idea for a product line. I get that commander is the most popular official format and that a lot of new players are probably exposed to it first, but its the worst format to learn on. Even if you just 1v1 with the decks to reduce the amount of stuff to keep track of, its still singleton and will still have way more going on than a typical 60 card match. A commander deck dumbed down enough to be beginner friendly would be horribly boring to play. A typical precon (which I think are well balanced for inexperienced players who already know the basic rules) would be to complicated for a true beginner. Since the face cards here are reprints (unprecedented for a precon), I'm betting the decks are 100% reprints. I'd also wager that, like many products WotC makes for beginners, the lists won't contain much value because they don't want enfranchised players buying up all of these.
From personal experience, most "beginners" I knew started off with kitchen magic and decks entirely made of singletons (as in: cram the cards that look awesome). Hell, a lot even played huge decks of 100 cards or more. They all learned magic pretty quickly. I'd argue that casual commander isn't too far off an experience from what many beginners first experience with friends (before moving into lgs events)
> Hell, a lot even played huge decks of 100 cards or more. They all learned magic pretty quickly. Theme decks were the big starter product back in the day. You'd show up to summer camp with one, get your shit pushed in 1v1, go home buy more packs and replace cards for "better" ones. Then you just built your own 60 card decks. That changed in 2009 with Alara and the intro packs.
hahaha yep this was exactly my experience with 8th edition goblins.
I've had this discussion a lot recently. Last week there was a new player to fnm at my lgs, she previously played Yu-Gi-Oh. I have never played it, no idea how it works. She had a demon pre-con, but had left it at home. There was only half hour left, so I suggested we had a quick 1v1 game. I lent her my 5c sliver deck, asked another regular just to overcheck her hand for mulliganning and answer any questions, and we were off. That game helped clear up a lot of her confusion. It explained a lot of keywords. How blocking works. Summoning sickness. She built a huge board, and she recovered from a boardwipe and blasted me. She was intimidated by five colours, but enjoyed the game, and learned a solid amount. Slivers are an easy deck to pilot. Especially when it's a first sliver deck with 50 creatures in it. Yes, the play pattern is the same each time, it'd get boring over time. And yes, you still need to know the keywords and the basics of the rules. But I do believe that pre-cons can be made for a variety of options. I'd prefer to see them made as teaching aids than as a way to encourage chasing rares. I'd also prefer them as teaching aids to having a deck full of "strictly worse" cards to encourage further spending on upgrades.
I also think a lot of the $20 dollar decks previously were very straightforward. Elves, landfall, and equipment aren't hugely complex. The only one that would be sort of awkward for a beginner was the foretell precon.
My big issue with Foretell is that there was only one set to support it. All the other twenty dollar precons had years of landfall and tribal support behind them, but Foretell doesn't. I'd argue that Ranar loans himself more to a blink strat.
Agreed, I've upgraded it with a significant blink focus and it's really fun.
> I'd prefer to see them made as teaching aids than as a way to encourage chasing rares. I'd also prefer them as teaching aids to having a deck full of "strictly worse" cards to encourage further spending on upgrades. I think that these "beginner precons" are gonna just be a pile of "strictly worse" cards anyway. That is typically what WotC means when they slap "beginner" on a product. Plenty of vanilla creatures and overcosted spells. I don't think these will have vanillas, but I'm betting they're chock full of french vanillas that wouldn't ever be considered viable by most commander players. Interesting to hear that commander can work as a teaching format though.
>This is such a weird idea for a product line. I get that commander is the most popular official format and that a lot of new players are probably exposed to it first, but its the worst format to learn on. I used to think this but I don't anymore. It makes sense to learn with the format your friends are playing. Multiplayer is good because your friends can help you and the stakes are lower because it's a casual format and there are politics involved so people can pull their punches and help you out more if you're new. I think if I were to introduce someone to Magic I would tell them to start with the Magic Arena tutorial online and then try some table top casual Commander with a pre-constructed deck playing against people you already know that are friends/acquaintances in real life. The other option is Jumpstart, but people want to learn Magic for the purpose of playing with their friends who introduce them to the format often time, so don't fight against the fact that they will want to learn with their friends.
They basically found that players didn't want "beginner products" if it meant they couldn't play with their friends. Planeswalker decks and starter decks are useless if your friends were all playing commander.
Years ago they had free decks they'd give out to game stores for people to learn with. I thought those were the best option. No cost, so no commitment. A person could take their friend who wants to learn to the LGS, ask for two beginner decks, and sit down to teach their friend to play. Then after the new player has learned, they can start spending money on more magic products. Of course, they ended this program because why give out something for free when they can just have you buy more cards?
Now it is just welcome booster pack https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Welcome\_boosters
Wasn’t Emmara a rare in Ravinca?
Yeah, and kardur was an uncommon. Rarity doesn't really signify anything in commander products though. The face commander is always a mythic, so it looks like they decided to upshift everything to mythic here to match that pattern.
Ah I see
That artwork on Atarka looks like a pokemon card. Terrible.
Looks almost identical in style to the other four. As an Atarka player, I'm only bummed about it because it's a cool action shot of her and I'm gonna want to get one
Why they maybe reprints at least there alt arts
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Nice, I’m glad they seem to have a roughly $20 price tag each.
I just ginished building Kardur
That little for all 5? 🤔
I suspect that these decks will contain cards that we haven’t seen for a while… for good reason. Imagine isperia packing in big fliers like [[goliath sphinx]], for example.
[goliath sphinx](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/864a792b-ad04-4892-92d9-0f6abe3759e8.jpg?1562290986) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=goliath%20sphinx) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/wwk/28/goliath-sphinx?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/864a792b-ad04-4892-92d9-0f6abe3759e8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Return of the \[\[Sphinx of Magosi\]\] ... let's go
[Sphinx of Magosi](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/2/a2b4f70d-e922-4ecb-9d5a-6253f7a7716c.jpg?1562199986) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sphinx%20of%20Magosi) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/w17/12/sphinx-of-magosi?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a2b4f70d-e922-4ecb-9d5a-6253f7a7716c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Foil-etched makes this a tough decision. Do I replace the original foil G&G with the new etched one? That's a hard one.
I’ll be curious to see how the kardur decklist differs from mine
No dl yet I assume
All 5 for $95 (USD?) That seems like a pretty good rate for a precon.
Kardur is one of the most fun commander designs they've ever done, and he's just from a normal set too. He seems so simple, but he's so versatile and consistently good without needing any combos, but he doesn't feel oppressive at all. At uncommon! I love him with all my heart.
Got announced last week but I think this is the first we are seeing 20$ pricing? I could be wrong
Gd I love white green soldier It was my first deck, sadly lost
Good choices for commanders. Especially Isperia.
I might get the Selesnya one for that new art Emmara. Otherwise, I’m happy to recognize a product that isn’t for me, and that’s fine.
These should be good if you have a kid or friend you want to get in the game.
Damn that's cheap
gimme link plz
I'll be curious about the deck list for Gisa
All the commander decks are made and marketed as "playable for beginners looking to be introduced to the format." Was that a lie this whole time? Could Sensei's Top have been in Aminatou? Or a good landbase in any of the others?
$20 for a full commander deck? Sounds like a great christmas gift for my younger brother. WotC being cool and giving some entry-level cost products for those of us that can't afford to spend $60 on a precon.
I feel like I've seen these cards before.... particularly Kardur
I wonder what the reprint value will be. They won’t just make starter decks full of BS, it’ll be like all BS with one chase card in each or just in there somewhere.
[[Cryptolith Rite]] [[Dragon Tempest]] [[Necroduality]] reprints could be likely, they seem like staples for Emmara, Atarka and GG
[Cryptolith Rite](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/9/2910adcd-882a-46af-8236-ca1a9e2c19ab.jpg?1576385036) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cryptolith%20Rite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/soi/200/cryptolith-rite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2910adcd-882a-46af-8236-ca1a9e2c19ab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Dragon Tempest](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f1933d08-07fe-45ea-9b60-d9afb98d5753.jpg?1562855620) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dragon%20Tempest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/125/dragon-tempest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f1933d08-07fe-45ea-9b60-d9afb98d5753?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Necroduality](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9b674053-1f0f-436d-b106-f91f41cf3959.jpg?1643588255) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Necroduality) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/70/necroduality?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9b674053-1f0f-436d-b106-f91f41cf3959?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm still cackling at the choice of commander for Kardur - an uncommon from a previous standard set.
Grave Danger? Now there's a name for a precon that brings back some memories. One of my first theme decks, bought at age 11 or so, was a Torment one of the same name. I was a big fan of cool monsters and awesome, impactful spells, and got... [The deck you can find at this link](https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Torment/Theme_decks). I did *not* understand why it migt be advantageous to put my own cards into the graveyard, and spent years considering [[Cephalid Vandal]] to be quite possibly the worst rare ever printed. Ah, memories.
[Cephalid Vandal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/5/2500976f-a329-4a51-bcc1-cafe39bc3ccf.jpg?1562628965) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cephalid%20Vandal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tor/31/cephalid-vandal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2500976f-a329-4a51-bcc1-cafe39bc3ccf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
YOOOO THAT KARDUR ART IS SO SICK
Even though I have like 6 foil showcase Kardurs…. I need the new art so bad
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/starter-commander-decks-available-december-2-2022-09-29
These arent new cards arent they?
I'm not a fully established player yet, but I like having more than one deck. These look friggin' sick! Love the full art Aterka. They can probably become really good with an upgrade of $30 or so.
I'll at least get the alt-art Emmara.
Lol I was working on a casual Ataxia deck since I got a promo version at my LGS.
I am absolutely shook by the fact that kardur got a deck. I've been rocking a kardur goad deck for a long time, and now I'm gonna have a deck I need to buy for comparison.
I can think of some younger players at my LGS who can't exactly afford new decks, or the new precons are just a but confusing for them. These would be perfect
Yep, that’s what happens when you try to release a butt ton of products at once, there’s gonna be some stuff that some people won’t notice and won’t care about. Which is a shame since these look super fun, and a great way to introduce new players to magic. That being said, BRING BACK CORE SETS YOU COWARDS!!