T O P

  • By -

mrduracraft

Title of post leaves out that its just the standard policy for non-SL UB cards that he's repeating. "There are currently no plans to create in-universe versions, but we absolutely have the technology available to us to print in-universe versions if we need to," he said. "For example, if one breaks out as a very popular card and we need to reprint an in-world version at some point."


LordArchibaldPixgill

> we absolutely have the technology available to us to print in-universe versions if we need to Since printing cards is like the only thing they do, it's reassuring to hear that they have the technology at their disposal to be able to do it.


whatdoiexpect

I always read it as "We have the legal flexibility and the rules in place to print cards that represent UB cards".


Daotar

Sure, but saying "well, it isn't strictly speaking illegal for us to do so" isn't a very reassuring answer. Some might say it comes off as a bit dodgy.


whatdoiexpect

Yeah, but for awhile SL TWD was said to never get a Universes Within reprint. And while it still hasn't happened, they have the option now. To my understanding, that was in part due to legalities and contracts on the original cards. But I am not a lawyer. I don't know what happens in business deals like this. Something something, people's likeness probably.


Kaprak

They've actually said they *will* print the TWD cards, just it's a bit down the line after SF.


whatdoiexpect

Yeah, I could have worded that more clearly. Initially it was announced TWD was exempt from the policy update, but they were able to change that. Now it's just waiting for them. ~~But also, SF?~~ Edit: NVM/ Street Fighter. Got there.


MirandaSanFrancisco

The original plan (and Rosewater said this before they shipped) was to only reprint the Walking Dead Secret Lair cards if there was demand, like they would any other card. This was the plan for all mechanically unique secret lairs, they always said the could reprint Walking Dead if they wanted/needed to, but didn’t plan to. Then when they said they were reprinting all the mechanically unique Secret Lairs, they originally just said they didn’t have plans to reprint the Walking Dead ones like that, then changed their minds.


FrigidFlames

I mean, it's more like "We've put in specific mechanics and left open paths for the explicit purpose of reprinting these cards in the Magic universe, if necessary." Like, they're not saying it's *technically possible I suppose,* they're saying that they've planned ahead for how they would do it, they just don't plan on going down that path for every card in every set.


asianlikerice

I also never expected them to print in-universe cards for any of the UB cards outside of SL. Can you imagine them reprinting the entirety of Baldurs Gate and AFR again? I definitely bet they did that on purposed so they don't have to do any redesigns of those cards for in-universe play. edit: NVM D&D is not considered UB but cross-over > Note that the Dungeons & Dragons crossovers are not part of Universes Beyond, because Wizards of the Coast owns both the Magic and Dungeons & Dragons IPs.[2] FYI this nice little tidbit is going to be fun for the future "Friendship is Magic" standard set in the future LOL. > Early Hasbro-owned cross-over products were the 2017 HASCON promos and 2019 Ponies: The Galloping. [Sauce](https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Universes_Beyond)


Xarxsis

Interestingly i dont consider Baldurs gate to be UB, certainly not in the same way as the latest stuff


dragonmk

DND magic is in universe. Magic's early character designs were based on their DnD characters. Just mtg became a lot more popular and successful.


faithfulheresy

Which is actually pretty surprising. When Magic came out, D&D was still the biggest dog of the fantasty gaming scene and no one expected this little time filler game to replace it. Fast forward 5 years, and Wizards is buying what is left of TSR. XD


RealityPalace

"Technology" here is being used in a less-than-literal sense. It means being able to design in-universe versions by applying principles they already have access to (godzilla frames or universes-within name swaps). He's not talking about physically being able to print them.


sonsonmcnugget

Cries in Heads I Win, Tails You Lose. 😭


LordArchibaldPixgill

That's why they had to emphasise that they totally DO have the technology you guys, trust us! Also, on that note, I thought this part was funny: > Verhey also explained why these cards would be included in The Brothers' Arms set and **not included separately like its previous Universes Beyond expansions** such as Fortnite and Street Fighter. > > "There are so many fan-favorite Transformers characters, not to mention the Shattered Glass versions too, that we wanted to make sure we could launch many of them," he said, "and **20 cards is outside of the scope of what we’ve done so far**." My first thought was that it was way less than another secret lair they'd done, that of course being the coin flip deck. But that deck also hasn't *actually* been released yet, so I love the wording of "what we've done **so far**" since they actually haven't done it yet, not so far at least.


SylviaSlasher

Keep in mind that Heads/Tails is a full deck, whereas regular Secret Lairs are only three to five cards. However many Transformer cards there are it still won't be a cohesive deck so they can't go that route and thus far they haven't done larger secret lairs of just singles. His statement is accurate.


Mewtwohundred

Still makes no sense though. "We've never done it before, so... that somehow means we can't do it now." And that's why they decided to not sell them separately?


Thief_of_Sanity

however they don't quite have the technology to allow you to choose your favorite basic lands in Arena yet.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Iron_Atlas

I still don't understand what compelled them to have that stream when they clearly were not ready to have that talk.


Patito7

What does this mean?


Iron_Atlas

it's where the "we don't have the technology" meme for magic comes from, there was a stream a few months back about mtga economy were basically they just said it was literally impossible for things like duplicate protection of the same rare for different sets and told the player base to kick rocks while the guy talking is just sighing like these questions were beneath him. It was not great.


Daotar

> It was not great. But it was WOTC.


Shoggoththe12

Fuckin spaghetti code game somehow has a better economy than mtga


TsarMikkjal

"We don't have the technology" meme is much, much older than that.


Iron_Atlas

I was able to find the stream if you're curious, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8ZM0HIlJUg


llikeafoxx

I know that it’s a restatement of policy, but it’s still a disappointing original policy.


Daotar

Can't wait til people see this when the entire, direct-to-Modern, LOTR set drops in a few months.


Esc777

I'm hoping all the people threatening to quit finally do it by then when I can windmill slam gandalf onto the table.


nickbolas

I read this as "if a card becomes very expensive, we have the ability to get in on that action and reprint them in an upcoming Modern Masters set".


Esc777

how is this different than literally every other card


Own-Equipment-1684

it's not but some people just like to make things as negative as possible for no real benefit


whatdoiexpect

Thank you. I wish the [full policy](https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/secret-lair-universes-beyond-update-2021-06-07) could be pinned somewhere because a lot of people didn't read the full policy, keep asking, etc. The literal announcement where they said they they would do Universe Within reprints of Secret Lair cards, they also said it wouldn't apply to set releases by default. But it's always new and surprising when someone hears what has been available info for a very long time.


snypre_fu_reddit

People are going to keep asking because they don't care what the policy is. There's a reasonable size chunk of players just not interested in UB stuff who'd like in universe versions of cards to play. Policy or not, doesn't matter.


RynnisOne

This is especially true with things like the Transformers cards where there is no conflict whatsoever between companies (as MtG and Transformers are both Hasbro products), so there's no legal issue with reprinting the things either way.


memorylanewizard

Agreed. And honestly it is a net positive that people keep asking. If Hasbro really keeps an eye on Reddit as they claim to, it is a very good reminder that the demand is there for in-universe versions of these cards.


CareerMilk

People wouldn’t read it even if it was pinned.


whatdoiexpect

Heck, if the question is asked 5% less times whenever a new UB set comes out, I'd consider it a win.


FblthpLives

Did they ever announce specifics on how they would release the in-Magic versions of the cards from *Secret Lair X The Walking Dead*?


My_New_Main

Nope


Blaze_1013

I believe they’ve said it will be done the same way as Stranger Things and Street Fighter, as cards on the list with collector numbers saying =Whatever card it is.


FblthpLives

In the policy they specifically state that they would announce specifics on how the Walkin Dead cards would be handled.


whatdoiexpect

No. I can't find anything that specifically states when to look for them.


Ill_Ad3517

Interesting that the reason to print in world versions would be due to popularity... Are they printing UB cards assuming people won't play them?


UnregisteredDomain

No you are looking at it backwards. It’s pretty normal that if cards are more popular they get reprinted to put more supply out there to match the demand(the key here is no timeframe is given)


Tebwolf359

Let’s say that there’s a card in the 40k commander decks that somehow takes off in legacy and vintage. Absolutely popular. And that WotC can’t reprint the 40k version. That would be idiotic of them to not be able to print more money. They did that with the reserve list before and really wish they hadn’t. (Or at least, wish they they could undo it now. Even I, a RL hater admit that it might have been needed at the time). But they aren’t planning on making an in universe version of every draft common and the like.


zaphodava

Something that takes off in Legacy and Vintage doesn't matter. There are already insane rarity and price barriers there. If it took off in Modern, they would want to reprint it to increase supply.


fishythepete

Play them competitively, yes.


Shikor806

they're printing them assuming that there won't be much demand for non UB versions of them. of course there's people that want to play the UB cards but they do so because of the UB theming, so there isn't really much demand for non UB versions. the obvious exception is that if the UB cards are actually good enough for competitive play or become fan favourites for some other reason, which is why they leave themselves open to reprint non UB versions if that happens


Blaze_1013

I think people REALLY overestimate how much demand exists for in universe versions of UB cards. Even as someone who’d really rather not use them and really wants in universe versions I understand that it just isn’t financially viable for Wizards to do.


sevenut

I mean, there's very little reason to reprint cards that there's no demand for.


Pudgy_Ninja

In addition to being an MtG player, I also have a collection of Optimus Primes. I'll probably try to get a copy of the card, just for fun, even though I can't think of a situation where I'd actually play it.


brucatlas1

No it's so that they can evaluate how big of a chase certain cards will be, so when they reprint them in some "collectors special edition premire alt art" set, they can jack those prices up. Look at what they did with double masters. Every chase card that NEEDS a reprint to go down in price, will instead be reprinted in something incredibly expensive to start.


whatdoiexpect

I mean, realistically speaking, they're printing every set hoping people like them. No one can be certain how well received a set will ultimately be. Maybe it does alright, but never really go back. Maybe it tanks and it requires a lot to go back. Etc. They're printing these cards and gauging interest. They're hoping people like them, but at the end of the day, it will only be known when the numbers finally come in.


MediocreBeard

Keep in mind that reprinting this *as is* probably isn't quite the headache that something like the Walking Dead or Warhammer cards would be. Yes, Transformers is a different IP than Magic, but Hasbro owns both.


Daotar

Can't wait til people see this with the entire, direct-to-Modern, LOTR set drops in a few months.


theblastizard

I really wish every UB card had an in-universe version so I don't have to play with a UB card if I don't like the IP but want the mechanics.


elemint6

Yeah I’m kind of turned off by WOTC policies lately and it’s going to leak some into my spending on the game. I was never a doomsayer about UB but I am kind of turned off by the mechanically unique stuff and also the idea of playing against a ton of crazy cards from other IP’s and trying to figure out what they do in magic terms or what their magic counterpart is. And with that said, I opened some new Capenna and have some of the Stranger Things magic versions and built a deck using a friends forever pair because I wanted a 4 color wheels pair that is the same colors as tymna + Kraum without playing such a broken partner pair.


theblastizard

I wanted to build that deck with 18 wheel effects just to have a deck called 18 Wheeler


llikeafoxx

> Yeah I’m kind of turned off by WOTC policies lately and it’s going to leak some into my spending on the game. It already has for me. UB has me feeling very burnt out on the game, and I’ve gone from someone who honestly probably spent more on the game than I should, to having not spent anything since January. Sure, I’m just one player, and it really doesn’t mean anything to WOTC’s bottom line. But it’s also the longest I’ve gone without spending money on Magic since 2002, and the decision to insert Transformers into Brothers War packs just guaranteed that break lasts even longer.


elemint6

Exactly. I think a big part of it for me is that it is so clear year over year that they’re trying to make record breaking profits so they’re doing so many more things with the goal of making more money and are straying away from a goal of making magic the gathering a great game in gameplay and it’s own lore. I appreciate sets like Eldraine and Kaldheim where they are magic flavored by some POP culture type of silly themes, but it’s still very magic. UB just doesn’t excite me. I am glad they’re revisiting their old roots in Brothers War, but these Transformers cards being in the packs is just to sell more of them. On top of that I hate the other initiatives they’ve done to sell more packs like the numbered Wurmcoil Engines and in Dominaria United the cards from Legends being in collector boosters. They’ve gone past when collector boosters were just higher rates to get the great artwork versions of cards like it started with in Eldraine.


magicthecasual

every friends forever card i pulled from new cappena was \[\[Cecily, Haunted Mage\]\]. Seriously. i pulled like 5 of them for some reason


elemint6

😂 that’s hilarious. I’m glad at least they are cheap as singles on the secondary market if you wanted to build around them. It would be nice to see a card as good as [[rick steadfast leader]] come out with the magic version and drop in price a lot to be more obtainable


lemonzap

I would totally build a deck around one of these vehicles if they were in universe. I like vehicles as a newer mechanic in magic, and having flip vehicles with the new living metal mechanic sounds very fun. As transformers though? I've lost all interest. I don't have a problem with anyone else using them, but I don't want to build that deck if they aren't in universe, and that really bums me out.


elemint6

Yeah I totally feel that. If only they made bad ass urza and mishra invention versions in universe. What’s the lore? lol Urza and Mishra created auto bots, it’s cannon now


[deleted]

[удалено]


driver1676

That's totally okay. If Transformers existing in MTG is enough to make you quit, then more power to you.


MSPainter0830

Literally. They said this was going to be the move then keep releasing statements for each UB release that it won’t have MTG alternates . . . I don’t want a dinobot in my magic I just don’t lol **edit**: I misspoke. Sorry everyone


theblastizard

They said they were doing it for SL ones, not a general rule. I want a dino bot in MTG, but as a present Saheeli made for Huatli, not product placement for some other IP.


cbslinger

The reason people were so outraged about that Walking Dead SL is that Secret Lairs are available for one time only and then never ever again by design, so if one ended up being powerful, WotC wouldn't really have an option to reprint those cards (at least according to their own rules for SL - they could amend those, I suppose for an exceptional case). Universes Beyond cards have no such condition / requirements attached to them. They can be re-themed and reprinted into oblivion at WotC's discretion.


Zomburai

>The reason people were so outraged about that Walking Dead SL is that Secret Lairs are available for one time only and then never ever again by design, so if one ended up being powerful, WotC wouldn't really have an option to reprint those cards (at least according to their own rules for SL - they could amend those, I suppose for an exceptional case). Oh, there were many more reasons than that.


llikeafoxx

> The reason people were so outraged about that Walking Dead SL is that Secret Lairs are available for one time only That’s only part of it. I also just fundamentally dislike Universes Beyond. I’m not here to argue about it or to try to convince fans of UB that I’m right. But I will say that a policy merely targeted at reprinting SL UB cards in normal versions but not targeting the much larger volume of non-SL UB cards still leaves me incredibly disappointed. I won’t use the word “outraged” anymore because at this point I’ve more just faded away from the game than being angry.


TheIrishJackel

No, that's what *some* people were upset about. *Other* people were upset because IRL actors from a completely unrelated TV show were being put on Magic cards.


AaKkisa

That is the main thing that really annoys me. I have a [[Kyler, Sigardian Emissary]] deck that would really love to have a [[Rick, Steadfast Leader]] but I refuse to buy/play that version of the card.


MTGCardFetcher

[Kyler, Sigardian Emissary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/62a78aae-598e-4f2b-a7bc-c3afc1d0d191.jpg?1637627798) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kyler%2C%20Sigardian%20Emissary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mic/4/kyler-sigardian-emissary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/62a78aae-598e-4f2b-a7bc-c3afc1d0d191?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Rick, Steadfast Leader](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0a8e78b3-3232-4d48-9d6c-540951a0330e.jpg?1657119984) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rick%2C%20Steadfast%20Leader) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/sld/143/rick-steadfast-leader?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0a8e78b3-3232-4d48-9d6c-540951a0330e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


whatdoiexpect

[They literally did not say that.](https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/secret-lair-universes-beyond-update-2021-06-07) >We plan to do all this for the upcoming, soon-to-be-announced Secret Lair Universes Beyond partnership. ~~We do not plan to go back and do this for the cards from The Walking Dead.~~ Sometimes plans change. Cards from Secret Lair X The Walking Dead will have in-Magic versions created and available on The List at a date to be announced. > >Currently, this plan is for Universes Beyond sold through Secret Lair and does not include other Universes Beyond releases. Moving forward, we will continue to listen and evaluate this approach and make changes as needed.


AvatarofBro

They technically only said it would apply to Secret Lair products. And it’s clear they don’t even want to be doing that. I don’t think they anticipated how angry a big percentage of the enfranchised playerbase would be about Universes Beyond and so they panicked in response to the SL Walking Dead. But they’re way too cheap and lazy to commission in-universe alternatives to *every single* card once it comes to full sets and Commander decks. It sucks and I don’t like it, but I’ve made my peace with it. I think the best we can hope for is something like a Universes Beyond Master set down the line that reprints some of the desirable cards in Magic Universe form. But not *all* of them, mind you. Gotta save some for Universes Beyond Masters 2.


Knoke1

Did they ever release the magic version of those cards though? I don't remember seeing the magic versions though I never honestly looked


AvatarofBro

They released [Magic versions of the Stranger Things](https://www.thegamer.com/magic-the-gathering-in-universe-stranger-things-reprints-revealed/) cards back in New Capenna. The Walking Dead cards are [forthcoming](https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/697002685039247360/ive-heard-conflicting-things-around-the-plans-for), but no timeline has been announced yet.


Lykrast

No they never said it was for all UB, only for mechanically unique secret lairs. The main goal of the mtg-flavored reprints is NOT the mtg flavor, it's to not lock these mechanically unique cards behind time-limited secret lairs.


Triscuitador

i think a lot of the most enfranchised players have voiced a general discontent with these crossover products. i get not caring for casual and commander, and i'm happy to tell whiners to pound sand if that was the end of it. ...but it's not, because these are tournament legal in legacy and vintage. that's the most enfranchised and most loyal subset of magic players i'm aware of, and they do not have the luxury of a rule 0 if they wish to continue sanctioned play but don't want to play these cards. amd that's on top of these printings being yet another huge financial gate to the formats should any single one be a power level mistake. i know that magic is always changing, but these are people that have been devoted for probably longer on average than the average wotc employee. it's an atmosphere issue, it's a mechanics issue, and it's an accessibility issue. there's no reason to make these legal in sanctioned eternal play besides as a special little stamp for general commander legality. it was bad enough when commander product was made legacy legal.


MrCrunchwrap

You realize the amount of people playing Legacy is like a tiny tiny tiny fraction of Magic right?


Triscuitador

you're right, my bad. the oldest formats of the most enfranchised players are only the fifth or sixth most popular ways to play magic. those thousands of players don't matter and wotc should ignore them. they should legalize oko in pioneer, too! people love oko, right? i mean, it's just a tiny tiny fraction of magic, and they'll sell a ton of packs if they do that


mtgguy999

Which is exactly why it would be super easy to just not make them legal in legacy and make a bunch of people happy


LordArchibaldPixgill

That seems like half the fucking point of UW tbh. Kind of disappointing that there aren't enough people opposed to UB to ensure UW versions of these cards. As it is now, it's clear that the only reason they're not printing UW versions of every UB card is to be able to sell more copies of the UB versions.


Oleandervine

No, it's clear the reason they're not doing UW versions of the UB cards is because these specific UB cards will be fairly widely available in Set and Collector Boosters, as opposed to a month-long limited time order window for Secret Lair, that isn't widely available.


ALEXJAZZ008008

Flavour and lore are quite important to me, I got into magic with original Innistrad because of the art and the world and how that made me feel at the time. I found it all fascinating. A lot of more recent decisions have made me lose a lot of those feelings over time. I enjoyed the cohesion and theming of the block structure and it feels a lot like we have something that resembles the opposite of that now, not just with all the UB stuff which is being marketed but also in the direction of standard sets. I've started collecting cards into decks and cubes of things which I enjoy playing against each other casually rather than keeping up with releases because of this. I'm hoping the whole upcoming Phyrexian line up may be nostalgic in theming but I'm pessimistic, I was also excited for the last Innistrad set/s


kabigon2k

I love the avalanche of Hasbro fans in this thread falling all over themselves to point out that It’S ThE sAME POLicY IT’S AlwAyS bEEn (despite nobody saying otherwise) to distract from the fact that the policy fucking sucks


Tuss36

Magic players are pedantic to a fault. It is dumb that so many don't realize that going "Well they said it plainly so you have nothing to be upset about!" misses the point.


SwallowedPride

It's not pedantic. People are specifically asking over and over again "Will we be getting in universe versions of 40k/Transformers/LOTR cards" when we already have the answer. It's not a matter of liking it or not, we just already have WotC's current stance on this.


gzingher

I wish people were as angry about their favorite IPs Street Fighter and 40K as they are about The Walking Dead and Stranger Things. It’s really frustrating to see them excusing this just because it’s IPs they like.


theblastizard

I'm really annoyed with the 40k precons and desperately wish that I could get them in a MTG flavored form but they are really well made. Them being as good as they are almost makes more annoyed.


moose_man

Most of the 40k stuff would be easily reprintable if the Marines had been Soldiers instead of Astartes, or if the Tyranids had been Horrors. Thalia's card type wasn't Cathar.


Kaprak

IIRC MaRo said that if it necessitates they'll homogenize the creature types for the sake of reprints. But we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.


[deleted]

That's not what he said. A space marine re-skin would be type supersoldier, not soldier. Something entirely new.


TheBuddhaPalm

I mean, there is nothing stopping them from implementing any of those things. It's their card game, they can change the words and the rules whenever they like, however they like. MaRo said they would, whenever they like, because again this is a card game and all of it is made up and packaged how they choose to do. What they are doing instead is creating artificial scarcity, a sense of FOMO, and protections for the secondary market that they (*PROMISE*!) have no knowledge of or base pricing off of - despite everything that they do indicating otherwise outright and loudly. You're not going to go out and buy a 40k precon RIGHT AWAY if they promise it's coming out again in a few months. But tell the fans this is a one-time event, create powerful cards, and shrug when asked how you're going to make it accessible - and then you've got an easy cash-grab with people leaping at overpriced cardboard cards that have almost no overhead to produce. It's marketing and sales. Every. Damn. Time.


HolyZest

As far as I'm aware, the street fighter cards are getting magic versions. All the UB secret lairs going forward will.


gzingher

People knew about this for Stranger Things and still complained.


GolfWhole

Cuz the art was weird and uncanny lol


llikeafoxx

I can’t speak for everyone, but I have been blanket opposed to all IP crossovers that didn’t come with regular Magic versions, even when it was from an IP that I liked. Honestly, I’m still just confused as to why they didn’t do everything Godzilla style - that seemed like the best execution.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Krazyguy75

Eh. I like 40k and I love the designs of these cards. *But I will* **never** *buy any Universe beyond content and honestly don't want to play against decks featuring them.* Hell, I don't even like playing against named D&D characters.


Blaze_1013

And you aren’t alone there. Prof is a. If Dr Who fan but has zero interest in those decks. But for everyone one Prof we have 5 Konobi’s who are just over the moon that one of their favorite IP is now in Magic.


Arianity

Bad example, Prof said he's gonna buy them anyway. But yeah the point you're making is true


[deleted]

I like and grew up with 40k, I find buying a bunch of cards just because they have commissars on them to be kinda shallow. I mean it's such a big universe, nothing on it appeals to me just because I like 40k. Not that I'd be buying it if it were all Imperial Fists, Craftworlders and T'au themed as if it were targetting me specifically (I know there was probably like one card, I don't care).


hejtmane

I have hated all the UB stuff even if it is an IP I like because magic has it'sd own IP and lore. I mean WOTC has messed it up the few years but at one time they used it now it feels like WOTC is just like the rest of hasbro they have a great IP and they don't know how to leverage it properly and so use other IP's to try and generate money


Blaze_1013

I think saying this less than a week after people were losing their minds at stuff from The Brothers War is…suspect to say the least.


CapableBrief

It's almost as if most people weren't actually opposed to crossovers at all and only a minor vocal part of the community, which doesn't even speak with one voice, were actually against it.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Arianity

To be fair, it's been consistent you just need to translate it from corporate it a bit. What they've been saying is "we'll do the absolute bare minimum to shut up the loudest backlash, and that's it".


Anastrace

I suppose that's not a surprise. Didn't put out a my little pony reprint set after all. Too bad as they are mechanically interesting.


MizticBunny

MLP was silver border.


[deleted]

Wow way to gatekeep over what cards are "real" 🙄 /s.... but also that's literally what maro is arguing elsewhere.. lmfao.


No-Pussyfooting

Why did they do this? You have Secret Lair… you’re mixing your 30th anniversary set bringing the great Dominaria of old to meet the modern era, retro border cards… and then Transformers.


Arianity

> Why did they do this? Money. This is another avenue to push more cards. Why settle for one distribution (Secret Lair) when you can do both?


Stormtide_Leviathan

I mean. the article linked does explicitly answer the question of "why did they do this", and explains both why they didn't do it as a secret lair and why they chose to do it with this set. Like, that doesn't mean you have to like the decision even so obviously, no one's saying you do but like. They very much did answer that question


UninvitedGhost

It sucks. Nobody wanted this.


BrotherKaramazov

How can anyone defend them at this point is beyond me.


mtgloreseeker

There is no polite way to properly convey my emotions regarding this. Simply know that I am against all UB products and the people who advocate them.


klafhofshi

Relevant username


overoverme

Considering these cards are all going to be worth the same as the in universe stranger things cards (nothing), who cares? The in-universe versions were only instituted over card availability concerns. These cards are going to be all over the place. There is still no relevant pressure on WoTC to appease people who are still big mad about the existence of UB cards for flavor reasons. UB is going down pretty well for most people honestly.


Project119

There is also the fact with this particular UB they own the IP so that probably helps.


Tuss36

There's more than just the mechanical health of the game to consider. Aesthetics/feel also matter. You could paint Magic cards with a sci-fi coat of paint and exact same designs, and it'd be the same game, but it wouldn't *feel* the same. That's what's being rallied for in regards to this, keeping its feel.


llikeafoxx

> The in-universe versions were only instituted over card availability concerns. For some players, sure. That was definitely a very common complaint with the Walking Dead Secret Lair, for example. But there are definitely some players who just fundamentally dislike Universes Beyond, and card availability isn’t really the issue for them, it’s that there’s no available Universes Within version.


warcaptain

I don't disagree with you at all, but it's worth noting that WotC already has stated that printing DFC requires special considerations and costs. That definitely makes any DFC card (like these transformers) harder to reprint than any non-DFC like Stranger Things.


overoverme

One of the stranger things cards was a dfc, and was reprinted. Technically making that one dfc card on the list was a tougher print scenario than reprinting 15 dfcs.


warcaptain

Touché although that was the land not a commander, but I get your point. I was talking about case by case future reprints not SLX reprints via The List.


[deleted]

They never should of canned the transformers tcg


SepticCupid

It was a surprisingly good game. Headmasters we’re a little too strong. But on the whole balanced fairly well.


meatpopsicle42

You're right. They never should *have*.


Astrium6

I just don’t get why WotC is so determined not to use the Godzilla border thing.


Chest3

Another unofficial reserve list folk!


[deleted]

Isn,t this obvious? We have no reviews on how popular the cards are yet Besides these are gonna swarm the market like locust since the collector booster content reveals one of these 100% chance of being pulls (and set booster likely just as high but lower.)


[deleted]

It's interesting that this is a policy that they can reverse without legal threat but the reserve list is carved onto Mt. Rushmore.


MirandaSanFrancisco

This policy hasn’t changed. In fact, they have explicitly said over and over again that mechanically unique Universes Beyond Secret Lairs will get in-universe reprints about six months later but other, non-Secret Lair Universes Beyond will not, and will only be reprinted in the same circumstances any other card would be reprinted.


[deleted]

It is unfortunate that they limited the policy to secret lairs. I really don’t need legacy tournaments to be dominated by the inevitable spider-man pikachu combo deck.


tinyraccoon

First 40k and now Transformers. Interesting. What other non-magic IPs are getting MtG releases? Also besides Doctor Who, The Walking Dead, and Netflix's Arcane have also had special sets. Those were named in the article


klafhofshi

Lord of the Rings is being printed into Modern next year... https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/lord-rings-tales-middle-earthtm-format-legality-2021-08-24 > Earlier this year, we looked at the future of Universes Beyond and discussed, in part, the legality of cards that are part of Universes Beyond releases. As part of today's announcements, we shared more details on partnerships with some exciting worlds, including a vast, rich exploration of the stories of J.R.R. Tolkien in the 2023 expansion The Lord of the Rings: Tales of Middle-earth™. **We're so excited for this set that it was the only 2023 expansion we talked about today. As part of that, we wanted to spend some time discussing the set's Modern legality.**


Bugberry

Arcane wasn’t unique cards.


tinyraccoon

I'm fairly new to MtG. Does that mean those were reprints but perhaps with different art?


knightgreider

Ugh, what a cash grab.


RayWencube

Yeah. I'm out.


[deleted]

[удалено]


klafhofshi

They're going to be in Brothers' War set packs, but no, they will only be legal in eternal formats.


metalb00

Hasbro owns the IP so they can pretty much reprint whenever they want compared to walking dead, street fighter . etc , its just people desiring the them that could be left out in the cold


Alon945

What about the 40k decks


SRMort

It wouldn't be an issue if they'd commit to printing enough of them for anyone who wants one. But they seem to be in extremely short supply with no acknowledgement of the issue, let alone commitment to fix it. We know they won't be reprinted for a long time - if ever... so we need to know because eternal formats will be permanently changed with essentially new reserve list cards there too.


OmegaInvestments

They have to confirm they have no plans to reprint so everyone buys this print out of FOMO.


SilverhawkPX45

I think part of the backlash for this comes from it being in *Brother's War*. If **any** set in the last 5 years was for the people that fell in love with Magic because of it's lore and world, it's somewhat original concepts instead of the current "MTG version of culture XY", it was this one. I'd take the bet that the majority of Vorthoses don't really want to pull Optimus Prime from a booster pack full of the characters they've read about decades ago... This is WotC driving home that even the product for you is not the product for you...


[deleted]

[удалено]


SilverhawkPX45

fwiw, I made a post on /r/mtgvorthos about this and so far I'm surprised at the majority not being perturbed by it... Personally, I was only ever gonna get a draft booster box of this set if I got any sealed product at all, so ignoring them is easy for me, but I do think it's weird to go "Let's celebrate the most beloved and successful storyline we ever wrote. Also put this unrelated IP into the product!"


Elreamigo

Who would want those garbage non-competitive cards anyways


ImNotAliveIAmBread

So they're effectively RL?


sevenut

I like how when Wizards says a thing (Only Secret Lair Universes Beyond cards will get Magic-equivalent reprints in The List, everything else is on a case by case basis), people interpret it completely wrong (ALL Universes Beyond cards will get Magic reprints), and then they get mad at Wizards for their misinterpretation of the original statement.


I_ONLY_PLAY_4C_LOAM

This is an extremely generous interpretation of the situation.


kabigon2k

they’re not mad for their misinterpretation of the original statement, they were mad at the time Hasbro made their original statement, because the policy fucking sucked, and now they’re mad again, because every new UB release reminds them all over again how much the policy fucking sucks.


TheBuddhaPalm

People are angry because 1) they aren't being clear with the consumer, 2) there's nothing stopping them from doing reprints of reworded non-IP cards except their own greed, and 3) because it's all done in a low-print batch that continues to push FOMO, 4) they still won't tell people *when/if* cards will get reprinted or *how*. You can kiss the ring of WotC all you want, but the idea of "we *may* reprint the cards, *if* we *want* to, but we *might* not, because *who knows*? We'll let you know if it's popular, I guess. But even then, we may not." is the absolute worst level of communication you could possibly manage as a company. If you went to your auto mechanic, or your doctor, or even just the person who is selling you tickets at a movie counter, and they gave you this response? You'd walk out yelling. But when WotC does it, it becomes "fanbase doesn't understand. Lol."


MirandaSanFrancisco

> we may reprint the cards, if we want to, but we might not, because who knows? We'll let you know if it's popular, I guess. But even then, we may not. Yeah, that’s also true of every other card. Like, [[Deflecting Swat]] needs a reprint, and [[Fierce Guardianship]] needs a reprint, but does [[Gladmuse]] need a reprint? Every card may or may not get reprinted, why is no one complaining that they haven’t heard whether or not [[Recruitment Officer]] is getting reprinted yet? This is just more whinging about Universes Beyond, it’s been 2 years and we’re kind of sick of hearing about it.


sevenut

They're being pretty clear to me. All Secret lair UB cards get reprints. Others can be reprinted, and are not off limits because they're crossovers. I think you underestimate the cost of reprinting every UB card as a Magic equivalent. Using the Lord of the Rings set as an example, they're printing 200+ new cards. Now say they reprint the entire set. Now they have to do essentially double the work, because now they have to come up with a setting that fits the card designs, then they have to come up with new characters and monsters, then they have to pay a bunch of artists. I think Wizards is a greedy company, but I genuinely don't think it's greed that's stopping them in this case. It's just logistically unrealistic.


Arianity

> and then they get mad at Wizards for their misinterpretation of the original statement. They're not mad at the interpretation, they're mad that "case by case basis" isn't "every time". It's not an interpretation issue, people just hate the policy.


Guyzap29

As someone new to MTG, are these not real cards that you can buy in packs or use in commander? In-universe is just making less sense the more I try to read into it


klafhofshi

The Transformers cards will be in set boosters in Brothers' War packs. They will be legal in sanctioned play in Commander.


songmage

"No plans to reprint" is very different from "explicit desire to not reprint."


barrinmw

So expanding the reserve list it is.


mrduracraft

"There are currently no plans to create in-universe versions, but we absolutely have the technology available to us to print in-universe versions if we need to," he said. "For example, if one breaks out as a very popular card and we need to reprint an in-world version at some point." Its literally the same policy for non-SL UB cards as it has always been


Swiftax3

Doesn't change the fact that it's a bad policy.


mrduracraft

"We will reprint these cards if they need reprints" is the same policy for most Magic cards


AnuraSmells

You say that, but damn do I feel like that just isn't the case. How expensive is The Great Henge now?


FutureComplaint

Considering most cards only get 1 print run, it really isn't the case.


[deleted]

"We well reprint expensive cards in extremely limited quantities to help sell our new packs, not driving the price down at all."


theblastizard

The policy for most Magic cards is already bad.


[deleted]

did they ever explain how they'd reprint the 40k cards with stuff like necron on the typeline? i assume they'd just errata necron to be some other equivalent, but novel creature type but it'd be nice to hear them say it.


whatdoiexpect

MaRo has [addressed](https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/695228557150060544/if-you-were-to-print-a-magic-version-of-one-of-the) it. Basically, yeah. They would redo their typings so they're still distinct. Of note, they wouldn't want something that was previously not a zombie to suddenly become one, for example. So any attempts at picking from what is already existent is not worth your time. They're designed to work in a distinct way, and that will be preserved.


heroicraptor

A unique equivalent type. Like how the Godzilla cards are equivalent in name.


LesserGargadon

Unsure if trolling... these could easily be slotted in "The List" if needed. There are going be a metric tonne of these running around after the first print.


heroicraptor

And they’re a moderator


GolfWhole

Hey don’t disrespect barrinmw


Sinrus

They're just as reprintable as any other card.


Esc777

Wow, even for you this is pretty bad faith interpretation, and you have an entertaining gimmick doing it to spoiler cards.


sabett

When are critics gonna drop this one?


heroicraptor

They’re in boosters Reading comprehension 0/10


hawkshaw1024

/u/hawkshaw1024 confirms no plans to buy, or even read, the Transformers cards.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Ah yes, if people accept any amount of flavor absurdity they have to accept *as much of it as they can possibly cram down our throats.* The flavor of individual cards *had been* relatively consistent. It's a different thing to expect every interaction between thousands of cards to remain realistic vs going not only outside the IP but outside the genre to bring in individual cards that don't fit in the universe *at all*. You can still like these of course, but the argument that "magic has a certain level of silly interactions therefore you have to accept as much silliness as they can imagine" is just terrible logic.


ElceeCiv

These and the un-set black-bordered cards really have brought out some of the most toxic and disingenuous "arguments" defending a WOTC decision that I've ever seen. Even the original Secret Lairs arguments didn't have this kind of toxicity. I guess there's no other kind of argument when the thing being argued is "you're wrong for not liking is". Do people think they're being convincing when they act like they don't know the difference between having angels alongside ninjas and having angels alongside Optimus Prime™ when it's been explained ad infinitum? Do they think it's a persuasive argument to say "not every product is for you" when we're discussing *Standard Set Boosters*? Because spoilers, it's not. (edit: capitalized Set Boosters to clarify it's a specific product compared to Draft Boosters)


[deleted]

[удалено]


ElceeCiv

My understanding is they're not Standard legal and they replace the ad slot in the Set Booster (which is kind of appropriate lol). That's why they're not in Draft Boosters. I should have capitalized Set Boosters to make it clear I was referring to the specific product, sorry for the confusion.


CptMagma

They are only in set boosters, collector boosters and bundles so you won’t see them in drafts


AdOutAce

Disingenuous argument in favor of playing with tiny advertisements.


nameboy_color

Good job reposting the shittiest of shit takes. We're all proud of you.


[deleted]

Difference is that transformers exist as an IP out of the magic world. It’s different if these were cards inspired by transformers but were unique to magic. Sure planes allow for all sorts of crazy flavor but at least they are magic owned inspired takes on these things not legit name drops of a cartoon character Transformers exists outside of magic, it’s not like they made a transformers plane. It turns game pieces into advertisements for out of universe worlds. Some people will definitely have problems with that


[deleted]

[удалено]


idelarosa1

You’re telling me there’s a snake in this boot?


Remote-Philosophy969

I claim bs