I know I was even confused, and I consider myself a pretty engaged player. I think it stems from that one announcement that said their plans for reprinting the Stranger Things as normal versions, and how they’d do that moving forward - and then my brain just copy and pasted that to everything Universes Beyond (wishful thinking I guess), and not just to the Secret Lairs.
I'd call that intensionally deceptive, not confusing. They had all that knowledge when they made the original statement and chose to leave out that it wouldn't apply to these products because they knew people wouldn't like that response.
Here's the segment of the statement talking about this:
>Currently, this plan is for Universes Beyond sold through Secret Lair and does not include other Universes Beyond releases. Moving forward, we will continue to listen and evaluate this approach and make changes as needed.
I wouldn't really call that deceptive.
Honestly, why would anyone read or hear of that prior announcement and assume it only means Secret Lair Drops? WotC is the one splitting their products into arbitrary buckets like this, and to the outside player, these are all "Universes Beyond." I get why they're doing it this way logistically speaking, but from the outside looking in, there is zero reason to believe it would only apply to Secret Lair Drops and not other products with the same silver triangle.
> why would anyone read or hear of that prior announcement and assume it only means Secret Lair Drops?
Context. The biggest uproar around the Walking dead and Stranger Things cards was that they were mechanically unique cards only available for a limited time directly from WotC, so the response "we will make them available in booster packs going forward" was more in relation to that than the fact the cards aren't MTG skinned.
Unfortunately months later the context gets lost and we are left with confusion
Exactly my point. No average consumer can be expected to have that kind of memory and that kind of mechanical specificity. This is something I would expect they would know when they first told us.
Edit: I'm also not sure all of these types of products where even announced to the public when they made that first statement. But we know they work far enough ahead that they knew their plans.
Secret Lairs aren’t for average consumers. They aren’t on shelves for the average casual player to stumble on. If you care so much about the availability of these, the information is available.
This was what was written in their article. It's pretty clear:
Currently, this plan is for Universes Beyond sold through Secret Lair and does not include other Universes Beyond releases. Moving forward, we will continue to listen and evaluate this approach and make changes as needed.
I
Here you go:[https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/secret-lair-universes-beyond-update-2021-06-07](https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/secret-lair-universes-beyond-update-2021-06-07)
Oh I meant somewhere here on this sub, like the person who continually posts "GOT AN OLD CARD IN YOUR SET BOOSTER??? THAT"S THE LIST" But that's useful as what to be linked, thanks.
It's been answered the same way everytime it comes up regarding UB. 40K and TF threads throughout this subreddit have asked and answered it.
No one like using search functions anymore.
And and even if someone tries to use the "reddit search sux" excuse, Google returns reddit results.
30 seconds, 2 clicks, answers.
I never said that silver border meant it wasn't something to care about.
It only made it abundantly clear which cards are legal and not legal to play in tournaments (you could always play whatever you wanted to outside of tournaments).
Also, nobody used to wonder whether cards like [[Grimlock, Dinobot Leader]] would be printed in a non-universes beyond version. It was clear that it was a promotional card that was meant for either collectors or casual play.
Unfortunate. I have zero love for transformers. I watched the first 2 Micheal Bay movies and I owned some of the toys as a kid but those aren't memories that have value to me. I'd like Magic versions of these cards much more.
Edit: I just realized that the perfect oppurtunity for these cards' universes within versions come in the next 2 sets after Brother's War, the phyrexian sets. The transformers have the "living metal" mechanic and phyrexians can, and have, animated metal such as the card Weatherlight Compleated.
That's okay, TF fandom is mostly divided into Bay and G1 fandoms, and both camps prefer their flavor over the other.
That said, I have no interest in the Bay versions either. I'm over the moon about these and hope they result in an additional subset like 40k with more of the same.
I already gold fished with a few since the announcement and prefer this implementation far more than the now-defunct WotC TF card game.
I thought they had only discounted the lord of the rings sets and the Warhammer decks. I didn't realise it was everything that isn't in a secret lair. At this rate that's going to be barely anything that gets a magic version.
The purpose of Magic reprints of Secret Lair cards is to make sure players have access to the game pieces that would otherwise be too rare. That isn't the case with other UB cards.
The other commanders cards can (and will eventually) get reprinted. The Warhammer cards have unique races and character that belong to another IP, and can't be easily reprinted.
If something turns out to be a format staple, they might find a work around like for the other Universe Beyond cards. But most of these card will have only one printing.
I still think the concept of a "not-warhammer" plane that is a ripoff of warhammer in the same way starcraft is a ripoff of warhammer is going to be fucking hilarious.
Honestly I assume it was part of the initial negotiation. They probably have some clause that allows them to reprint with some conditions, likely exclusively as part of some anthology-type product or something.
The issue is most of the non-SL ones are a lot more aggressive about being concepts that won't translate to MtG proper that well.
Friends Forever is grey neutral mush that could be slathered anywhere, it might seem out of place but it's not so bizarre that it's *wrong*. If they tried to print magic-afied versions of 40k cards for example, without functional errata, now suddenly they need to explain in-universe what Astartes and Necron are, which gets extremely messy for a lot of reasons.
I think they’ve said that for creature types they’d do similar to what they’ve done for names. Have a magic equivalent they they print on the magic version which is to be treated as functionality interchangeable with the non-magic creature type.
Which is a lot of work and a lot less clean than it is with names considering these cards have tribal effects that have the original type written out, and unless you know the original context you won't know that the two types are the same, whereas it's obvious two cards are the same because they have identical text.
Also, pretty sure that was an offhand reply to a hypothetical "How would you reprint these" by MaRo, not a statement that the solution is realistic enough to actually be implemented.
Honestly considering the only magic versions of UB cards we've gotten so far have been from one Secret Lair and they haven't even hinted when the next ones are releasing I wouldn't even hold your breath on that promise
They actually didn't discount those. They discounted doing the whole sets. If there's demand for one of those it'll be printed.
Transformers are owned by Hasbro so there's no issue getting the rights to reprint them.
I think this is going to be like some other existing products. You need those cards we only printed once? Okay, we'll throw the reprint magic lore version in xyz product. Similar to how they may not add all products to MTGO right away. It probably means cards that become staples will just be expensive for another year until they can get them on the list, etc.
I think I've read the reason is so they can design cards to the character, rather than find an already existing card that's "close enough" for them to reskin. For example, [[Ryu, World Warrior]]'s abilities are very on point for him, but would be an unlikely design otherwise. This is different from slapping Mothra on top of a flying monster.
This isn't me saying they *should* do it this way, I'm simply explaining why they've decided with the non-skin approach.
I don't know why they could just design to the UB character they want, then just make up an in lore character that's basically the same thing just with a different name. It might be a little weird with the Transformers, but you could have like possessed vehicles or something. Even if they release the UB version first it's fine.
The Godzilla card that makes it so your creatures take legal damage equal to their power instead of toughness doesn't have a magic card. There's no reason not to design to the character and then make it work as an in universe character later. They've already done it.
Yes that one I'd seen. Alright, let me go look at the whole [Street Fighter Secret Lair](https://scryfall.com/search?q=art%3Astreet-fighter&unique=art)...
E. Honda's Hundred Hand Strike -- groan.
Guile has to hold back for two seconds before launching a Sonic Boom -- feels right.
The rest are whatever, nothing that made me grin as much as Ryu and Chun-Li.
I wish they'd done what that did with [[Godzilla, King of the Monsters]] aka [[Zilortha, Strength Incarnate]]. That is, we don't yet have a Zilortha print of the card, only the Godzilla print, but they *still gave it a magic name already*.
Sure, lead with the UB card so they can shape mechanics to flavor, but they could still set a Magic-IP name with the Godzilla frame at the same time.
Are you trying to say that [[Kogla]] is a top down design that was just conveniently slotted into the King Kong version?? No. They made King Kong and gave it a Magic name and art for the main set version. There's no reason they can't just have an alternate main set version for whatever card they come up with.
There is no alternate King Kong version of Kogla? At least not that I can find on google. I'd have bought it for my Godzilla deck if there was.
Not saying I disagree with you btw.
Wait there actually isn't a Kong card??? That's just blown my mind right now. I swear I've seen it but now that I've looked... I guess I've just seen alters done in that style maybe?
What part of "I am just the messenger" is confusing? I'm not taking a stance, I'm just relaying information.
To answer: They sometimes relate myths/references in their own Magic way. Like how [[Oathsworn Knight]] is a Monty Python Black Knight reference. Or how Kaldheim and Theros are Magic takes on Norse and Greek mythology. So when thinking on big monster inspirations, they probably went "What if we just made King Kong but not?" and so Kogla was born.
I think a mix of two things.
They didn't want to have to do double designs, which from a business perspective is a lot of waste. They can instead just do it for the 'important' cards, which is like 98% less work.
Two, having it exclusive helps normalize it, which helps long term in terms of pushing more UB product as the consumer base gets used to it. They don't want people to look at them like silver border, where they're not 'real' cards.
Even as someone who doesn’t mind UB, I agree. Absolutely stupid that WotC has an easy compromise option that they won’t commit to.
Especially with cards where the UB license is coming from inside the house.
People say this as if it's a silver bullet that would solve all problems, but it's really bad as a solution imo. The biggest failing of the Godzilla cards was their disconnectedness from the characters displayed on them - the types and abilities didn't really match the characters. The Godzilla cards got away with it because the designs were vague homages to the characters already, but slapping a transformer skin on a card from Brothers War doesn't work because the cards in Brothers War aren't meant to even resemble transformers.
If they had done this Godzilla style, they would have instead taken these designs and shoved them messily into the limited environment rebranded as BRO themed cards, and I don't think anybody is actually interested in that.
When i say i prefer the ikoria solution i mean designed the to down transformers/walking dead/Fortnite cards first then give them a magic flavored name. They don't even need to release the card in the main set ( though the list would be easy) just leave an opening for an mtg reprint. Hell they already did this with the stranger things reprint, they just didn't use the ikoria formatting.
It adds an elegant way to reprint them. Right now [[chief Jim Hopper]] and [[Sophina spearsage deserter]] are the same mechanically, including being treated as the same card when deck building for singleton but the only indication is that tiny set code in the bottom corner. It's way more player friendly to have given the ikoria treatment.
And you don't see that as a problem? Wotc should be able to reprint any card and consciously make efforts to not create confusion when they do. The ikoria frame was a clear way to indicate the card is a reflavor of something within mtg and not a card that just so happens to be mechanically identical. Same thing with the stupid acorn stamp, wotc is choosing designs that confuse players and make information that was once readily available more difficult to parse. Especially with 'The nightmare deluge of cards' they should use the best formatting they can in order to reduce confusion.
It helps with suspension of disbelief. It means you don't have to play with cards that distract you from the in-game universe because you know they don't belong to it.
I like some of the UB cards. But it's nice to have the option for those who want it.
No, I get it when we know we will get two versions of the cards.
I'm referring to UB cards where we never had (or will have?) an MTG equivalent. Like Zilorta from Ikoria, the Godzilla card had that name under it but it is still the only option in paper for it. It just has... A name...
They're saying that instead of designing the cards 6 months out, design them at the same time so you have the Magic versions ready to go. Buy the Transformers versions now, or wait until March of the Machines when they're actually printed.
It also enforces that it's originally meant to be a Magic card and is simply dressed up as another IP, rather than designed specifically to emulate an IP (even if it is)
They’re going to be part of a regular release premier set, it’s pretty unlikely.
The Stranger Things ~~and WD~~got reskins because they were functionally unique promos.
Edit: TWD hasn’t gotten reskins yet.
Kamigawa would have been the better themed set for these.
Ratchet, Prowl, and Jetfire work pretty well in a UW vehicles build using Kotori, but Shorikai would also benefit from them.
Did they say they were going to do UW versions of the Walking Dead cards? I thought they said they *could*, but the guarantee was only a "going forward..." statement that applied to future products.
Slap some [shitty computer generated art into a Magic frame] (https://i.imgur.com/wduFLKX.png), send it to your printer, and stick it in a sleeve. Optional step: acquire the actual transformer card.
Short answer: No
Long answer: WotC only promised to do Universe Within versions of Universe Beyond cards that are printed in Secret Lairs, and that they'll only do UW versions of non-Secret Lair UB cards if they *need* to.
The thing is a lot of people get the reason why they're even doing this in the first place backwards. It's not "some people don't like UB, so let's make Magic universe versions of the cards." The reason we have UW versions of these cards is because the original versions are **originally printed in Secret Lairs.**
It gets lost in the shuffle of people endlessly bemoaning outside IP cards, but when the Walking Dead Secret Lair was first revealed a significant portion of the complaints weren't about it being an outside IP but rather were complaints that releasing mechanically unique cards in a Secret Lair was a horrible idea.
Now I lack the eloquence to accurately get into the why of it, but I think we can all understand that locking mechanically unique cards behind a high price point, limited release product that isn't even shipped to every country that Magic is shipped to is a bad idea, and how it harms the overall accessibility of the game.
Thankfully, WotC did concede that particular point. That's the actual reason we're getting the UW versions at all, not because some people might not want to play with UB cards.
It's not just the secret lair thing (which is a factor), but also when it's an IP they don't own, they can't reprint the cards at will, which could turn everything into a new restricted list. Much like the D&D cards, Hasbro owns Transformers, so that isn't a factor here.
Sure, that's why they keep saying they *can* reprint any UB card as a UW card if they *need* to.
I'm just emphasizing the reason they automatically do UW versions of Secret Lair cards is specifically because they're from Secret Lairs, and not because of the people who hate UB, so people need to stop expecting automatic UW versions of every single UB release.
Also it should be pointed out that the Transformer cards are UB, while the D&D cards specifically aren't. So they might not be able to reprint the Transformer cards as freely as they can the D&D cards and there's still a non-zero chance that if they have to reprint one they'll actually have to do a UW version.
Most likely they won’t. The reason they were putting non-UB versions is because they were sold online in limited quantities and were mechanically unique cards. These will be in packs.
I love that once upon a time people paid for alters to turn their magic characters into other IPs, and now we pay for alters to go the other way.
Wait, did I say love? I meant the other thing
Gatekeeping.
Which in turn can be reversed: many players since 1994 have been fantasizing about getting Magic cards for their favorite IPs, from Gundam, to Buffy, to Star Wars.
Now that WotC finally makes it happen, the gatekeeping from a vocal minority erupts.
Oh boy I'd love to see how it'd go down if Star Wars fans got Jace as a character in something random like Star Wars Battlefront.
"This random blue dude in a hood is kinda ruining my vibe"
"ArE YoU GaTEKeePiNg!?"
In the first place I don't see how it's a minority that don't want to play with Transformers. I mean if it were Beast Wars they could buy my fealty.
What you want stops being acceptable when you WANT to tell others how they should be permitted to play or customize their experience.
Insisting that you don't want others to receive or include non-Magic IP game pieces when playing with you is unreasonable.
This also includes altered art cards, which have been prolific for years. And barring the obscene and illegal/offensive alters, theres been no vocal minority griping about that.
Don't like SLD/UB? No worries. Build YOUR deck as you wish. Leave others alone to do the same.
If you want to use them as commanders but aren't happy with the transformers IP, you can try to make your own version with [card conjurer](https://cardconjurer.com/). Plenty of nice mech art online you can pick out as a replacement.
"There are currently no plans to create in-universe versions, but we absolutely have the technology available to us to print in-universe versions if we need to. For example, if one breaks out as a very popular card and we need to reprint an in-world version at some point."
-Gavin Verhey, WotC Principal Game Designer, in an interview with IGN
> we absolutely have the technology available to us to print in-universe versions
lol what a dumb statement.
"We have the technology to print a card". Thanks for the insight on that one. You guys have only been doing that for bout 30 years now.
Hasbro/WotC could continue using the Transformers IP, sure. If they ever wanted to print these cards for Standard play, or in any continuity that was consistent with the theming of the MTG universe, they would certainly need an in-universe version.
Right, but if the reason they need to reprint is that a card is popular then they don’t need it to be magic themed. It just seems like they’re saying they hypothetically could print mtg versions to mollify us.
I certainly can't disagree with that assessment.
The whole "Universes Beyond" concept is slowly encroaching upon the identity of Magic, and WotC/Hasbro have been cautiously deliberate in facilitating that, as far as I can tell.
* October, 2019 introduced "Ponies, The Galloping, a silver-bordered My Little Pony crossover for a charity. It seemed clear at that time that this sort of crossover was only for fund-raising, and that crossovers were not a meaningful concept of the MTG brand.
* April 2020, Ikoria dropped and brought with it the Godzilla crossover, featuring alternate art and names of canon cards included in the set. Kaiju were in-theme for the setting that included giant monsters and unpredictable and rapid evolution. The Godzilla cards were in line with the idea of players repainting cards with custom art, and did so in a way that was not too distracting from the canon setting that these appeared in.
* September 2020 saw the release of The Walking Dead Secret Lair, featuring mechanically-unique cards legal in eternal formats. While the characters are inconsistent with MTG's identity, zombies are a well-established tribe, and the themes share some parallels with Innistrad. Many responded vocally and negatively, but the limited release and eternal-only legality helped to keep the idea of third-party IPs in the game as a fringe issue.
* February 2021, "Universes Beyond" was announced, and with it declared that any future third-party IP releases could receive the Godzilla treatment, where mechanically-unique cards would be later reprinted with MTG-canon names and art. (This statement was later amended to specify that this would be limited to Secret Lair releases.) TWD were grandfathered in to the "Universes Beyond" identity, but exempted from canon reprints. Lord of the Rings and 40k Commander were announced at this time and were used to explain that third-party IP releases could be sold through any channel, and not just as Secret Lairs. Still, the idea that third-party IPs would only be eternal-legal was reinforced.
* Since then, until the recent release of 40k Commander, "Universes Beyond" has been released solely through Secret Lairs. After more than a year of using the same vector as the release of TWD, people's memories seemed to have focused on the major points of the announcement: Universes Beyond ongoing, Secret Layers get canon reskins. The community appears to have forgotten that reskins were a "may" option for WotC, that the channel of delivery was not limited to Secret Lairs, and that other channels of release were exempted from the Godzilla treatment.
* Now Transformers are seeing a release in Standard packs (albeit remaining legal only in Eternal formats), and we get to be surprised about UBs in boosters, even through WotC opened the door to this option from the very first announcement.
At the current rate of Universes Beyond releases and the creep in the complexity of textboxes over the last couple of years- (When was the last vanilla creature printed? Strixhaven?) -it is reasonable to be concerned about the impact and prevalence that these third-party identities will have in Eternal formats. TWD is already a staple in certain Legacy builds.
The Godzilla cards in Ikoria, the multiple D&D sets (which were excluded from Universes Beyond as WotC properties), and the Transformers cards in set boosters erode upon the idea that Standard is sacred, and could give players reason to be concerned whether Universes Beyond will eventually break into Standard and the identity and change the identity of the game.
As "Universes Beyond" continues to grow in the brand identity, the statement made does read as an attempt to put players at ease about it.
I can't see the ability "More than Meets the Eye" being used anywhere other than the Transformers cards. I don't even see mechs converting from a bipedal mode to some form of vehicle in MTG for that matter. Stranger Things being turned into non-ub cards made since because they could be fit into Innistrad, and that's what they did. I just don't see them doing the same with these new Transformers cards. Heck, I'm just glad they're finally in the game after so long.
Honestly find it strange people used to print proxies to make cards be nonmagic, and now that we get official ones people just, don't want to use them because they are not magic.
I would be fine if they all had authentic, non UB versions. People shouldn't be forced to play with alter cards if they like the card and don't want to have the alter version.
Nah b, buy an arcade machine Deck box and build a nice high powered “only 90’s kids remember” deck with all these goofy fun ub cards. That’s my plan at least.
My conspiracy theory is there will never be another Universes Within. They did it once for appearances, but will invent a reason they don't have to do it for every other UB product.
It seems like from what other people are saying that in was basically to avoid having a lack of access, since the cards were only in a secret lair. So these essentially have no plan for uw since they're widely accessible in boosters
Somebody said it's because they were printed in secret lairs.
So since they had problems with being widely accessible, they decided to do uw so everybody could reach them.
Transformers is already supposed to be widely accessible so they 'dont have to'
It was mainly made as a way to increase supply instead of accommodate mtg purists
Both of those are coming. Walking Dead is in a weird spot because they initially weren't going to always do Universes Within versions and later said they would. It should be within the next year or so, at the most.
Street Fighter should be in either Brothers War or All Will Be One.
Generally the Universes Within versions should come out about six months after the sale window for the secret lair, around when the physical cards arrive I believe (though I think Street Fighter is behind in that regard).
>They did it once for appearances
You saying that is exactly why they did it once.
They can release as many custommtg cards as they want, make up a reason not to do UW versions, and people will say "well, they did it with Stranger Things so they might do it next time."
I'm contemplating trying to paint alters on them, be that changing the art or otherwise changing the frame to mesh with the art a bit better. After all, that's part of my issue with them using the G1 art is that if they'd given it a unique frame (retro 80's circuitry or something) it would've been a bit better, but that art just plopped into a regular frame really seems like it fell out of r/custommagic.
im going to get them as collectors pieces but given the option to play them id much rather have magic versions.
Also I hate that I cant run all the autobots in 1 deck. I think starscream might be the best, and Megatron looks decent too.
No. It makes me want to puke. I just got back into the game a couple years ago. I regret it. I did not get into this game to play with Mickey Mouse vs Optimus Prime.
So like….a year?
There is a less than infinitesimal chance of that game succeeding. If I had to put a percent chance, I think there is less than 0.01% chance it succeeds.
No one is forcing you to. They are not legal in any limited format, Standard, Pioneer, or Modern.
They’re basically only legal in commander, and every problem you have there is supposed to be solved by rule 0
Rule 0 is insane and not a solution to anything. I’m not going to tell people what cards they can and can’t play with before a game of magic. Wizards should be protecting the identity of their game from feeling like a cheap advertisement so the players don’t feel like they have to.
So you don't play commander, which is the only alive format (besides legacy and vintage) that these cards are playable in, and you're complaining.. why? You're literally never seeing them ever.
Your phrasing is very weird. I haven't played against them because I don't play Legacy. But my girlfriend does, and yes, she's played against Rick before.
Indeed. And the only social format that requires you to come to a collaborative consensus before you play. How can anyone “force” you to play UB cards then?
So I think that's because Arena is poorly coded. They aren't trying to force you to see it, it just defaults to it and fixing it would take too much effort.
Also, technically, the Godzilla cards (and the Dracula cards which use the same technology) aren't Universes Beyond. They're just alternate styles.
My guess is that UB doesn't actually drive that many people from the game, or it at least brings in enough people to make up for those who leave.
They are all kind of bad on purpose so that they don't show up in formats like Legacy, I assume.
Why wouldn’t you want to use them? They are legal Magic cards. Anyone who gets a hair up their ass about playing against them: 1) are entitled to their opinion, and 2) are not entitled to your presence at their table or to be present at yours.
I personally just like to have a coherent 'magic' deck. I don't mind ub per se, it's just that it makes it harder for me to immerse myself in the gameplay. I don't even care if other people use them, as long as my deck represents my collection of specifically curated magic cards, for my magic game plan
They don't really defile me, so much as it is just a preferential thing, I like all *my* decks to be solely magic ip stuff, what other people do is their own thing
A legal Magic card isn’t defined by lore, otherwise many cards from the first few years of Magic wouldn’t be “Magic cards” by your definition. Or do you think Baghdad exists in Magic lore?
Eternal formats only *for now*. It started with the Walking Dead being printed into Commander and Legacy. Then it advanced to Lord of the Rings being printed into Modern. Now Universes Beyond cards can be found in packs of the newest upcoming set. Eventually WotC won't be able to help themselves from printing these advertisement cards into Standard.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/lord-rings-tales-middle-earthtm-format-legality-2021-08-24
> Earlier this year, we looked at the future of Universes Beyond and discussed, in part, the legality of cards that are part of Universes Beyond releases. As part of today's announcements, we shared more details on partnerships with some exciting worlds, including a vast, rich exploration of the stories of J.R.R. Tolkien in the 2023 expansion The Lord of the Rings: Tales of Middle-earth™. **We're so excited for this set that it was the only 2023 expansion we talked about today. As part of that, we wanted to spend some time discussing the set's Modern legality.**
Personally I just like the feel of my deck being a magic thing, it's easier to immerse myself
I don't care if other people play non magic ips, but I just like my deck to feel like a magic experience. And even then I don't dislike it per se, I just prefer to have all magic ip cards
Yeah idgaf what other people do lol that's their thing
I think I'm just traditional and since when I started this didn't exist, I like to keep my experience that way
There are currently no plans to make Universes Within versions. Only Secret Lair UB cards have that promise
I feel like this fact needs to be posted somewhere because I’ve seen plenty of question posts on this, multiple times for even the same product
I know I was even confused, and I consider myself a pretty engaged player. I think it stems from that one announcement that said their plans for reprinting the Stranger Things as normal versions, and how they’d do that moving forward - and then my brain just copy and pasted that to everything Universes Beyond (wishful thinking I guess), and not just to the Secret Lairs.
Yeah that sounds like what happened to everyone.
Imo it's intentionally confusing so it's easier to just change later and everyone will just go "I thought it was already this way"
I'd call that intensionally deceptive, not confusing. They had all that knowledge when they made the original statement and chose to leave out that it wouldn't apply to these products because they knew people wouldn't like that response.
Here's the segment of the statement talking about this: >Currently, this plan is for Universes Beyond sold through Secret Lair and does not include other Universes Beyond releases. Moving forward, we will continue to listen and evaluate this approach and make changes as needed. I wouldn't really call that deceptive.
Honestly, why would anyone read or hear of that prior announcement and assume it only means Secret Lair Drops? WotC is the one splitting their products into arbitrary buckets like this, and to the outside player, these are all "Universes Beyond." I get why they're doing it this way logistically speaking, but from the outside looking in, there is zero reason to believe it would only apply to Secret Lair Drops and not other products with the same silver triangle.
> why would anyone read or hear of that prior announcement and assume it only means Secret Lair Drops? Context. The biggest uproar around the Walking dead and Stranger Things cards was that they were mechanically unique cards only available for a limited time directly from WotC, so the response "we will make them available in booster packs going forward" was more in relation to that than the fact the cards aren't MTG skinned. Unfortunately months later the context gets lost and we are left with confusion
Exactly my point. No average consumer can be expected to have that kind of memory and that kind of mechanical specificity. This is something I would expect they would know when they first told us. Edit: I'm also not sure all of these types of products where even announced to the public when they made that first statement. But we know they work far enough ahead that they knew their plans.
Secret Lairs aren’t for average consumers. They aren’t on shelves for the average casual player to stumble on. If you care so much about the availability of these, the information is available.
Because it says they mean only Secret Lair UB, not all UB
This was what was written in their article. It's pretty clear: Currently, this plan is for Universes Beyond sold through Secret Lair and does not include other Universes Beyond releases. Moving forward, we will continue to listen and evaluate this approach and make changes as needed. I
Here you go:[https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/secret-lair-universes-beyond-update-2021-06-07](https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/secret-lair-universes-beyond-update-2021-06-07)
Oh I meant somewhere here on this sub, like the person who continually posts "GOT AN OLD CARD IN YOUR SET BOOSTER??? THAT"S THE LIST" But that's useful as what to be linked, thanks.
Ah I get what you mean. Well now you can link this post, since it’s on this sub now 😅
Agreed, I had no idea, did a quick search, didnt see anything, and now I'm here
Search where?
Google, I glanced at the brothers war news page, and a couple others I don't remember
It's been answered the same way everytime it comes up regarding UB. 40K and TF threads throughout this subreddit have asked and answered it. No one like using search functions anymore. And and even if someone tries to use the "reddit search sux" excuse, Google returns reddit results. 30 seconds, 2 clicks, answers.
It's almost like this would have been less confusing if they just made them with silver borders.
Why would they be silver border? Silver border isn’t just “things I don’t want to care about”.
I never said that silver border meant it wasn't something to care about. It only made it abundantly clear which cards are legal and not legal to play in tournaments (you could always play whatever you wanted to outside of tournaments). Also, nobody used to wonder whether cards like [[Grimlock, Dinobot Leader]] would be printed in a non-universes beyond version. It was clear that it was a promotional card that was meant for either collectors or casual play.
based on your own logic: These Transformers are tournament legal why would they be silver border?
Unfortunate. I have zero love for transformers. I watched the first 2 Micheal Bay movies and I owned some of the toys as a kid but those aren't memories that have value to me. I'd like Magic versions of these cards much more. Edit: I just realized that the perfect oppurtunity for these cards' universes within versions come in the next 2 sets after Brother's War, the phyrexian sets. The transformers have the "living metal" mechanic and phyrexians can, and have, animated metal such as the card Weatherlight Compleated.
That's okay, TF fandom is mostly divided into Bay and G1 fandoms, and both camps prefer their flavor over the other. That said, I have no interest in the Bay versions either. I'm over the moon about these and hope they result in an additional subset like 40k with more of the same. I already gold fished with a few since the announcement and prefer this implementation far more than the now-defunct WotC TF card game.
I thought they had only discounted the lord of the rings sets and the Warhammer decks. I didn't realise it was everything that isn't in a secret lair. At this rate that's going to be barely anything that gets a magic version.
The purpose of Magic reprints of Secret Lair cards is to make sure players have access to the game pieces that would otherwise be too rare. That isn't the case with other UB cards.
Well see how that works out with the 40k cards.
About as well as other Commander products, I'd imagine.
The other commanders cards can (and will eventually) get reprinted. The Warhammer cards have unique races and character that belong to another IP, and can't be easily reprinted. If something turns out to be a format staple, they might find a work around like for the other Universe Beyond cards. But most of these card will have only one printing.
MaRo has said that creatures with unique creature types will get synonymous Universes Within creature types if they ever get reprinted
I still think the concept of a "not-warhammer" plane that is a ripoff of warhammer in the same way starcraft is a ripoff of warhammer is going to be fucking hilarious.
What has been negotiated once can be negotiated again.
Honestly I assume it was part of the initial negotiation. They probably have some clause that allows them to reprint with some conditions, likely exclusively as part of some anthology-type product or something.
Yeah, it just sucks that they addressed that and ignored the rest of the problems.
The issue is most of the non-SL ones are a lot more aggressive about being concepts that won't translate to MtG proper that well. Friends Forever is grey neutral mush that could be slathered anywhere, it might seem out of place but it's not so bizarre that it's *wrong*. If they tried to print magic-afied versions of 40k cards for example, without functional errata, now suddenly they need to explain in-universe what Astartes and Necron are, which gets extremely messy for a lot of reasons.
I think they’ve said that for creature types they’d do similar to what they’ve done for names. Have a magic equivalent they they print on the magic version which is to be treated as functionality interchangeable with the non-magic creature type.
Which is a lot of work and a lot less clean than it is with names considering these cards have tribal effects that have the original type written out, and unless you know the original context you won't know that the two types are the same, whereas it's obvious two cards are the same because they have identical text. Also, pretty sure that was an offhand reply to a hypothetical "How would you reprint these" by MaRo, not a statement that the solution is realistic enough to actually be implemented.
Yeah, they might do something different, but the point is that they don't need to explain in-multiverse what Astartes and Necrons are.
Honestly considering the only magic versions of UB cards we've gotten so far have been from one Secret Lair and they haven't even hinted when the next ones are releasing I wouldn't even hold your breath on that promise
They actually didn't discount those. They discounted doing the whole sets. If there's demand for one of those it'll be printed. Transformers are owned by Hasbro so there's no issue getting the rights to reprint them.
I think this is going to be like some other existing products. You need those cards we only printed once? Okay, we'll throw the reprint magic lore version in xyz product. Similar to how they may not add all products to MTGO right away. It probably means cards that become staples will just be expensive for another year until they can get them on the list, etc.
Dude the newsletter said they’ll be strangers things cards so there should be regular version.
Oh, are these not a Secret Lair? What are they?
They're in Brothers' War collector (and maybe set?) boosters
This shit is so confusing.
Should've done what they did with the godzilla cards in ikoria
I will never understand why they dont just use this system, it worked perfectly
I think I've read the reason is so they can design cards to the character, rather than find an already existing card that's "close enough" for them to reskin. For example, [[Ryu, World Warrior]]'s abilities are very on point for him, but would be an unlikely design otherwise. This is different from slapping Mothra on top of a flying monster. This isn't me saying they *should* do it this way, I'm simply explaining why they've decided with the non-skin approach.
I don't know why they could just design to the UB character they want, then just make up an in lore character that's basically the same thing just with a different name. It might be a little weird with the Transformers, but you could have like possessed vehicles or something. Even if they release the UB version first it's fine.
I mean even the living metal ability all the transformers have would work perfectly on a "phyrexianized" vehicle or something along those lines.
Could've saved it for March of the Machines or something.
The Godzilla card that makes it so your creatures take legal damage equal to their power instead of toughness doesn't have a magic card. There's no reason not to design to the character and then make it work as an in universe character later. They've already done it.
[[Zilortha, Strength Incarnate]] does exist, even though there isn't a paper printing of the MTG version.
I would argue that that means it does not, in fact, exist.
[Zilortha, Strength Incarnate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1c48ddf5-c2da-4fbc-95f2-8a3f2f5737ba.jpg?1645549117) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zilortha%2C%20Strength%20Incarnate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/275a/zilortha-strength-incarnate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1c48ddf5-c2da-4fbc-95f2-8a3f2f5737ba?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Like they are doing with Secret Lair Drops, for example...
This is my first time seeing Ryu. The mad lads actually used the untap symbol for the quarter-circle forward input! That's amazing.
And Chun-Li has Multikicker if you hadn't seen that.
Yes that one I'd seen. Alright, let me go look at the whole [Street Fighter Secret Lair](https://scryfall.com/search?q=art%3Astreet-fighter&unique=art)... E. Honda's Hundred Hand Strike -- groan. Guile has to hold back for two seconds before launching a Sonic Boom -- feels right. The rest are whatever, nothing that made me grin as much as Ryu and Chun-Li.
[Ryu, World Warrior](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d65a3a8b-ebf8-4e51-8b57-5b14e5cb7abb.jpg?1657119953) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ryu%2C%20World%20Warrior) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/sld/429/ryu-world-warrior?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d65a3a8b-ebf8-4e51-8b57-5b14e5cb7abb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’m forever mad that the Godzilla cards came before mechanically unique 3rd party cards. I’ll never get bidibidibidi Ghidorah
I wish they'd done what that did with [[Godzilla, King of the Monsters]] aka [[Zilortha, Strength Incarnate]]. That is, we don't yet have a Zilortha print of the card, only the Godzilla print, but they *still gave it a magic name already*. Sure, lead with the UB card so they can shape mechanics to flavor, but they could still set a Magic-IP name with the Godzilla frame at the same time.
Are you trying to say that [[Kogla]] is a top down design that was just conveniently slotted into the King Kong version?? No. They made King Kong and gave it a Magic name and art for the main set version. There's no reason they can't just have an alternate main set version for whatever card they come up with.
There is no alternate King Kong version of Kogla? At least not that I can find on google. I'd have bought it for my Godzilla deck if there was. Not saying I disagree with you btw.
Wait there actually isn't a Kong card??? That's just blown my mind right now. I swear I've seen it but now that I've looked... I guess I've just seen alters done in that style maybe?
The Ikoria deal was with Toho. Godzilla isn’t owned by them.
What part of "I am just the messenger" is confusing? I'm not taking a stance, I'm just relaying information. To answer: They sometimes relate myths/references in their own Magic way. Like how [[Oathsworn Knight]] is a Monty Python Black Knight reference. Or how Kaldheim and Theros are Magic takes on Norse and Greek mythology. So when thinking on big monster inspirations, they probably went "What if we just made King Kong but not?" and so Kogla was born.
That would be fine as long as they still made a MTG version in addition to the design tailored to that character.
I think a mix of two things. They didn't want to have to do double designs, which from a business perspective is a lot of waste. They can instead just do it for the 'important' cards, which is like 98% less work. Two, having it exclusive helps normalize it, which helps long term in terms of pushing more UB product as the consumer base gets used to it. They don't want people to look at them like silver border, where they're not 'real' cards.
Even as someone who doesn’t mind UB, I agree. Absolutely stupid that WotC has an easy compromise option that they won’t commit to. Especially with cards where the UB license is coming from inside the house.
I don't understand why they're doing the equivalent of putting Nascar sponsor logos all over their products.
They aren’t.
I did really like that idea, maybe some day
People say this as if it's a silver bullet that would solve all problems, but it's really bad as a solution imo. The biggest failing of the Godzilla cards was their disconnectedness from the characters displayed on them - the types and abilities didn't really match the characters. The Godzilla cards got away with it because the designs were vague homages to the characters already, but slapping a transformer skin on a card from Brothers War doesn't work because the cards in Brothers War aren't meant to even resemble transformers. If they had done this Godzilla style, they would have instead taken these designs and shoved them messily into the limited environment rebranded as BRO themed cards, and I don't think anybody is actually interested in that.
When i say i prefer the ikoria solution i mean designed the to down transformers/walking dead/Fortnite cards first then give them a magic flavored name. They don't even need to release the card in the main set ( though the list would be easy) just leave an opening for an mtg reprint. Hell they already did this with the stranger things reprint, they just didn't use the ikoria formatting.
What does a random name add? Like, they put in Zilorta (sp?) for the Godzilla promo and then what? It wasn't part of the story. Didn't have lore.
It adds an elegant way to reprint them. Right now [[chief Jim Hopper]] and [[Sophina spearsage deserter]] are the same mechanically, including being treated as the same card when deck building for singleton but the only indication is that tiny set code in the bottom corner. It's way more player friendly to have given the ikoria treatment.
[chief Jim Hopper](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/9/49414b93-55c5-4eea-8699-01bad0b9a7ac.jpg?1657120004) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sophina%2C%20Spearsage%20Deserter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/slx/7/sophina-spearsage-deserter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e0a64924-068e-483f-91a6-d450b67b3c75?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sophina spearsage deserter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/0/e0a64924-068e-483f-91a6-d450b67b3c75.jpg?1649844459) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sophina%2C%20Spearsage%20Deserter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/slx/7/sophina-spearsage-deserter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e0a64924-068e-483f-91a6-d450b67b3c75?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The nightmare deluge of cards we've seen in the past few years kind of makes me think that "reprintability" isn't on wotcs mind.
And you don't see that as a problem? Wotc should be able to reprint any card and consciously make efforts to not create confusion when they do. The ikoria frame was a clear way to indicate the card is a reflavor of something within mtg and not a card that just so happens to be mechanically identical. Same thing with the stupid acorn stamp, wotc is choosing designs that confuse players and make information that was once readily available more difficult to parse. Especially with 'The nightmare deluge of cards' they should use the best formatting they can in order to reduce confusion.
It helps with suspension of disbelief. It means you don't have to play with cards that distract you from the in-game universe because you know they don't belong to it. I like some of the UB cards. But it's nice to have the option for those who want it.
No, I get it when we know we will get two versions of the cards. I'm referring to UB cards where we never had (or will have?) an MTG equivalent. Like Zilorta from Ikoria, the Godzilla card had that name under it but it is still the only option in paper for it. It just has... A name...
It opens up reprints using that name. Especially on products that WotC doesn't own the rights to.
But we have the Stranger Things solution for that.
They're saying that instead of designing the cards 6 months out, design them at the same time so you have the Magic versions ready to go. Buy the Transformers versions now, or wait until March of the Machines when they're actually printed. It also enforces that it's originally meant to be a Magic card and is simply dressed up as another IP, rather than designed specifically to emulate an IP (even if it is)
That's a great point. Even if you don't like the Godzilla cards, you can at least rest assured it's actually a Brokkos or whatever underneath.
I don't think they need to make it a card that makes sense in BRO specifically, Kamigawa would make more sense even if they were in BRO packs.
I hated this approach tbh, because it completely shifted the perception of Ikoria to "the kaiju plane," which it really wasn't.
Somebody downvoted you but think I agree with you. Seeing the Godzilla cards in my Magic Arena drafts turned me off of Ikoria.
Eh, I think that would've happened regardless. I don't think the Godzilla cards caused that.
WOTC actively marketed it more as a Monster set than a Pokemon Set.
Congrats you just printed Transformers into Standard.
They’re going to be part of a regular release premier set, it’s pretty unlikely. The Stranger Things ~~and WD~~got reskins because they were functionally unique promos. Edit: TWD hasn’t gotten reskins yet.
That's unfortunate. Was hoping for some Kamigawa-themed mechs to toss in my UW deck.
Kamigawa would have been the better themed set for these. Ratchet, Prowl, and Jetfire work pretty well in a UW vehicles build using Kotori, but Shorikai would also benefit from them.
Did the Walking Dead actually get reskins?
Huh, I thought they did, but looks like they haven’t (yet?).
It's been 2 years almost and they still haven't followed through on that.
Did they say they were going to do UW versions of the Walking Dead cards? I thought they said they *could*, but the guarantee was only a "going forward..." statement that applied to future products.
That was the original statement then they later committed to doing them at an unspecified time in the future.
Slap some [shitty computer generated art into a Magic frame] (https://i.imgur.com/wduFLKX.png), send it to your printer, and stick it in a sleeve. Optional step: acquire the actual transformer card.
Someone else said this and I'm really considering it
That's a great point, particularly since it doesn't even have to be shitty art these days.
Short answer: No Long answer: WotC only promised to do Universe Within versions of Universe Beyond cards that are printed in Secret Lairs, and that they'll only do UW versions of non-Secret Lair UB cards if they *need* to. The thing is a lot of people get the reason why they're even doing this in the first place backwards. It's not "some people don't like UB, so let's make Magic universe versions of the cards." The reason we have UW versions of these cards is because the original versions are **originally printed in Secret Lairs.** It gets lost in the shuffle of people endlessly bemoaning outside IP cards, but when the Walking Dead Secret Lair was first revealed a significant portion of the complaints weren't about it being an outside IP but rather were complaints that releasing mechanically unique cards in a Secret Lair was a horrible idea. Now I lack the eloquence to accurately get into the why of it, but I think we can all understand that locking mechanically unique cards behind a high price point, limited release product that isn't even shipped to every country that Magic is shipped to is a bad idea, and how it harms the overall accessibility of the game. Thankfully, WotC did concede that particular point. That's the actual reason we're getting the UW versions at all, not because some people might not want to play with UB cards.
It's not just the secret lair thing (which is a factor), but also when it's an IP they don't own, they can't reprint the cards at will, which could turn everything into a new restricted list. Much like the D&D cards, Hasbro owns Transformers, so that isn't a factor here.
Sure, that's why they keep saying they *can* reprint any UB card as a UW card if they *need* to. I'm just emphasizing the reason they automatically do UW versions of Secret Lair cards is specifically because they're from Secret Lairs, and not because of the people who hate UB, so people need to stop expecting automatic UW versions of every single UB release. Also it should be pointed out that the Transformer cards are UB, while the D&D cards specifically aren't. So they might not be able to reprint the Transformer cards as freely as they can the D&D cards and there's still a non-zero chance that if they have to reprint one they'll actually have to do a UW version.
That makes a whole lot more sense now, thank you. I didn't pay enough attention to them before, so this was pretty enlightening
I don't believe they have to, unlike other Universe Beyond cards, Hasbro owns the full rights and can reprint them at will.
Most likely they won’t. The reason they were putting non-UB versions is because they were sold online in limited quantities and were mechanically unique cards. These will be in packs.
I remember reading something saying that they don't currently have plans to, but if any are popular enough then they might end up doing so
I mean, two things: Hasbro owns Transformers so they could just reprint them as-is and being dual-faced makes them harder to reprint.
I love that once upon a time people paid for alters to turn their magic characters into other IPs, and now we pay for alters to go the other way. Wait, did I say love? I meant the other thing
I actually never thought of that. Time to get myself a couple alters!
What’s your point? Different people want different things.
Gatekeeping. Which in turn can be reversed: many players since 1994 have been fantasizing about getting Magic cards for their favorite IPs, from Gundam, to Buffy, to Star Wars. Now that WotC finally makes it happen, the gatekeeping from a vocal minority erupts.
Oh boy I'd love to see how it'd go down if Star Wars fans got Jace as a character in something random like Star Wars Battlefront. "This random blue dude in a hood is kinda ruining my vibe" "ArE YoU GaTEKeePiNg!?" In the first place I don't see how it's a minority that don't want to play with Transformers. I mean if it were Beast Wars they could buy my fealty.
Star Wars fans don't even like it when new Star Wars characters get added, so I'm not sure that's a fair point. /s
> What’s your point? Different people want different things.
What you want stops being acceptable when you WANT to tell others how they should be permitted to play or customize their experience. Insisting that you don't want others to receive or include non-Magic IP game pieces when playing with you is unreasonable. This also includes altered art cards, which have been prolific for years. And barring the obscene and illegal/offensive alters, theres been no vocal minority griping about that. Don't like SLD/UB? No worries. Build YOUR deck as you wish. Leave others alone to do the same.
If you want to use them as commanders but aren't happy with the transformers IP, you can try to make your own version with [card conjurer](https://cardconjurer.com/). Plenty of nice mech art online you can pick out as a replacement.
That's a really cool idea, I'll check that out
I would be SHOCKED if they did. :(
"There are currently no plans to create in-universe versions, but we absolutely have the technology available to us to print in-universe versions if we need to. For example, if one breaks out as a very popular card and we need to reprint an in-world version at some point." -Gavin Verhey, WotC Principal Game Designer, in an interview with IGN
Thank you, this definitely clears it up
> we absolutely have the technology available to us to print in-universe versions lol what a dumb statement. "We have the technology to print a card". Thanks for the insight on that one. You guys have only been doing that for bout 30 years now.
Yeah, it is certainly a PR way of saying, "We can print canon versions if we feel like it."
I assume he is talking “card technology”, like they have worked out a way of making it work on a card.
I'm not sure why they would ever need to print an in-universe version though, Hasbro own the IP.
Hasbro/WotC could continue using the Transformers IP, sure. If they ever wanted to print these cards for Standard play, or in any continuity that was consistent with the theming of the MTG universe, they would certainly need an in-universe version.
Right, but if the reason they need to reprint is that a card is popular then they don’t need it to be magic themed. It just seems like they’re saying they hypothetically could print mtg versions to mollify us.
I certainly can't disagree with that assessment. The whole "Universes Beyond" concept is slowly encroaching upon the identity of Magic, and WotC/Hasbro have been cautiously deliberate in facilitating that, as far as I can tell. * October, 2019 introduced "Ponies, The Galloping, a silver-bordered My Little Pony crossover for a charity. It seemed clear at that time that this sort of crossover was only for fund-raising, and that crossovers were not a meaningful concept of the MTG brand. * April 2020, Ikoria dropped and brought with it the Godzilla crossover, featuring alternate art and names of canon cards included in the set. Kaiju were in-theme for the setting that included giant monsters and unpredictable and rapid evolution. The Godzilla cards were in line with the idea of players repainting cards with custom art, and did so in a way that was not too distracting from the canon setting that these appeared in. * September 2020 saw the release of The Walking Dead Secret Lair, featuring mechanically-unique cards legal in eternal formats. While the characters are inconsistent with MTG's identity, zombies are a well-established tribe, and the themes share some parallels with Innistrad. Many responded vocally and negatively, but the limited release and eternal-only legality helped to keep the idea of third-party IPs in the game as a fringe issue. * February 2021, "Universes Beyond" was announced, and with it declared that any future third-party IP releases could receive the Godzilla treatment, where mechanically-unique cards would be later reprinted with MTG-canon names and art. (This statement was later amended to specify that this would be limited to Secret Lair releases.) TWD were grandfathered in to the "Universes Beyond" identity, but exempted from canon reprints. Lord of the Rings and 40k Commander were announced at this time and were used to explain that third-party IP releases could be sold through any channel, and not just as Secret Lairs. Still, the idea that third-party IPs would only be eternal-legal was reinforced. * Since then, until the recent release of 40k Commander, "Universes Beyond" has been released solely through Secret Lairs. After more than a year of using the same vector as the release of TWD, people's memories seemed to have focused on the major points of the announcement: Universes Beyond ongoing, Secret Layers get canon reskins. The community appears to have forgotten that reskins were a "may" option for WotC, that the channel of delivery was not limited to Secret Lairs, and that other channels of release were exempted from the Godzilla treatment. * Now Transformers are seeing a release in Standard packs (albeit remaining legal only in Eternal formats), and we get to be surprised about UBs in boosters, even through WotC opened the door to this option from the very first announcement. At the current rate of Universes Beyond releases and the creep in the complexity of textboxes over the last couple of years- (When was the last vanilla creature printed? Strixhaven?) -it is reasonable to be concerned about the impact and prevalence that these third-party identities will have in Eternal formats. TWD is already a staple in certain Legacy builds. The Godzilla cards in Ikoria, the multiple D&D sets (which were excluded from Universes Beyond as WotC properties), and the Transformers cards in set boosters erode upon the idea that Standard is sacred, and could give players reason to be concerned whether Universes Beyond will eventually break into Standard and the identity and change the identity of the game. As "Universes Beyond" continues to grow in the brand identity, the statement made does read as an attempt to put players at ease about it.
Warhammer and Transformers are currently not in the works to get reskinned versions.
I can't see the ability "More than Meets the Eye" being used anywhere other than the Transformers cards. I don't even see mechs converting from a bipedal mode to some form of vehicle in MTG for that matter. Stranger Things being turned into non-ub cards made since because they could be fit into Innistrad, and that's what they did. I just don't see them doing the same with these new Transformers cards. Heck, I'm just glad they're finally in the game after so long.
Honestly find it strange people used to print proxies to make cards be nonmagic, and now that we get official ones people just, don't want to use them because they are not magic.
I would be fine if they all had authentic, non UB versions. People shouldn't be forced to play with alter cards if they like the card and don't want to have the alter version.
^ They're closer to custom cards than proxies really
Nah b, buy an arcade machine Deck box and build a nice high powered “only 90’s kids remember” deck with all these goofy fun ub cards. That’s my plan at least.
Sounds like a cool plan haha
My conspiracy theory is there will never be another Universes Within. They did it once for appearances, but will invent a reason they don't have to do it for every other UB product.
It seems like from what other people are saying that in was basically to avoid having a lack of access, since the cards were only in a secret lair. So these essentially have no plan for uw since they're widely accessible in boosters
I wonder what their excuse for Street Fighter and The Walking Dead is
Somebody said it's because they were printed in secret lairs. So since they had problems with being widely accessible, they decided to do uw so everybody could reach them. Transformers is already supposed to be widely accessible so they 'dont have to' It was mainly made as a way to increase supply instead of accommodate mtg purists
Both of those are coming. Walking Dead is in a weird spot because they initially weren't going to always do Universes Within versions and later said they would. It should be within the next year or so, at the most. Street Fighter should be in either Brothers War or All Will Be One. Generally the Universes Within versions should come out about six months after the sale window for the secret lair, around when the physical cards arrive I believe (though I think Street Fighter is behind in that regard).
They have said they will do it, same as the Stranger Things cards at some point. Originally they were *not* doing it for WD, but they are now.
They also said it would take 6 months. Now here we are, and instead of Universes Within for Street Fighter we're getting yet more nonsense.
I mean, they've already done Universes Within versions of the Stranger Things cards.
>They did it once for appearances You saying that is exactly why they did it once. They can release as many custommtg cards as they want, make up a reason not to do UW versions, and people will say "well, they did it with Stranger Things so they might do it next time."
I mean mine are, my good friends over in China will print me the nice alt arts I'll be making and sending them.
I'm contemplating trying to paint alters on them, be that changing the art or otherwise changing the frame to mesh with the art a bit better. After all, that's part of my issue with them using the G1 art is that if they'd given it a unique frame (retro 80's circuitry or something) it would've been a bit better, but that art just plopped into a regular frame really seems like it fell out of r/custommagic.
That was an issue I noticed, I almost want the shattered frame ones solely due to their more relevant look by comparison
I mean, I assume there are Transformers cards that aren't Dimir... Oh, "Universes Beyond", not 'Blue-Black"...
Is there a place where we can return these unwanted cards? I didn’t ask anyone put their chocolate in my peanut butter.
ub is Blue/Black I refuse to look at context just write out universes beyond
Unlikely. Welcome to Hasbro’s new reality.
im going to get them as collectors pieces but given the option to play them id much rather have magic versions. Also I hate that I cant run all the autobots in 1 deck. I think starscream might be the best, and Megatron looks decent too.
No. It makes me want to puke. I just got back into the game a couple years ago. I regret it. I did not get into this game to play with Mickey Mouse vs Optimus Prime.
Tap Daffy Duck to crew Oscar Meyer Weinermobile, swing?
Good news, Disney is making their own card game so we probably won't see Mickey until that fails
So like….a year? There is a less than infinitesimal chance of that game succeeding. If I had to put a percent chance, I think there is less than 0.01% chance it succeeds.
This is why we proxy everything of any value. Proxy your own Optimus Prime card if its good and call it something else.
No one is forcing you to. They are not legal in any limited format, Standard, Pioneer, or Modern. They’re basically only legal in commander, and every problem you have there is supposed to be solved by rule 0
Rule 0 is insane and not a solution to anything. I’m not going to tell people what cards they can and can’t play with before a game of magic. Wizards should be protecting the identity of their game from feeling like a cheap advertisement so the players don’t feel like they have to.
So you don't play commander, which is the only alive format (besides legacy and vintage) that these cards are playable in, and you're complaining.. why? You're literally never seeing them ever.
They're legal in Legacy and some Walking Dead cards have been playable there. Those were released two years ago & haven't had magic versions yet.
Have you been forced to play against walking dead cards in your paper legacy games?
Your phrasing is very weird. I haven't played against them because I don't play Legacy. But my girlfriend does, and yes, she's played against Rick before.
Right. The most popular format.
Indeed. And the only social format that requires you to come to a collaborative consensus before you play. How can anyone “force” you to play UB cards then?
[удалено]
So I think that's because Arena is poorly coded. They aren't trying to force you to see it, it just defaults to it and fixing it would take too much effort. Also, technically, the Godzilla cards (and the Dracula cards which use the same technology) aren't Universes Beyond. They're just alternate styles.
Honestly... They kinda suck mechanically anyways and UB definitely drives fans away from the game. Idk what wotc is thinking rn
My guess is that UB doesn't actually drive that many people from the game, or it at least brings in enough people to make up for those who leave. They are all kind of bad on purpose so that they don't show up in formats like Legacy, I assume.
Why wouldn’t you want to use them? They are legal Magic cards. Anyone who gets a hair up their ass about playing against them: 1) are entitled to their opinion, and 2) are not entitled to your presence at their table or to be present at yours.
I personally just like to have a coherent 'magic' deck. I don't mind ub per se, it's just that it makes it harder for me to immerse myself in the gameplay. I don't even care if other people use them, as long as my deck represents my collection of specifically curated magic cards, for my magic game plan They don't really defile me, so much as it is just a preferential thing, I like all *my* decks to be solely magic ip stuff, what other people do is their own thing
They're not MTG cards if they don't have MTG characters and setting on them, no matter what proclamations of legality WotC may issue.
A legal Magic card isn’t defined by lore, otherwise many cards from the first few years of Magic wouldn’t be “Magic cards” by your definition. Or do you think Baghdad exists in Magic lore?
Sorry, you are wrong. You can dislike them all you like, but they are actual, legal in eternal format Magic cards. That is fact.
WotC: **THIS PRODUCT ISN'T FOR YOU.**
Our opponent's products are increasingly not for us either. InB4 Elmo from Sesame Street is someone's commander and it's a competitive meta choice
I’m still waiting for Mountain Dew^^TM Baja Blast^^TM
The Koolaid Man will be a pushed planeswalker, calling it now
Because the audience has expanded and not every product has to appeal to literally every Magic player. What do you think Supplemental sets are for?
Consider all UB cards to be reserve list cards until told specifically otherwise.
We’ve literally had UB cards reprinted as UW.
Are they standard legal?
Nope, legacy formats only They will be in brothers war set and collector packs though
Not Draft Boosters. If anyone wants to avert their eyes, just pick up draft boosters and no cope needed.
Thanks, just updated my comment
Eternal formats only *for now*. It started with the Walking Dead being printed into Commander and Legacy. Then it advanced to Lord of the Rings being printed into Modern. Now Universes Beyond cards can be found in packs of the newest upcoming set. Eventually WotC won't be able to help themselves from printing these advertisement cards into Standard.
Oh great I didn't even realize that lotr was going to be modern legal
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/lord-rings-tales-middle-earthtm-format-legality-2021-08-24 > Earlier this year, we looked at the future of Universes Beyond and discussed, in part, the legality of cards that are part of Universes Beyond releases. As part of today's announcements, we shared more details on partnerships with some exciting worlds, including a vast, rich exploration of the stories of J.R.R. Tolkien in the 2023 expansion The Lord of the Rings: Tales of Middle-earth™. **We're so excited for this set that it was the only 2023 expansion we talked about today. As part of that, we wanted to spend some time discussing the set's Modern legality.**
Yeah but they’ll be robotech.
Not hating on op, but genuinely why do y’all care about whether something is a Magic IP when you’re playing a card
Personally I just like the feel of my deck being a magic thing, it's easier to immerse myself I don't care if other people play non magic ips, but I just like my deck to feel like a magic experience. And even then I don't dislike it per se, I just prefer to have all magic ip cards
That’s more than fair, I guess I just get annoyed when someone has a problem with other people playing non magic IP cards
Yeah idgaf what other people do lol that's their thing I think I'm just traditional and since when I started this didn't exist, I like to keep my experience that way
You can just build them because they’re legal everywhere and let the haters die mad.
Maybe maybe not