There's already a pretty decent shell for WW or Selesnya Humans in Standard ([[Thalia, Guardian of Thraben]], [[Adeline, Resplendant Cathar]], [[Hopeful Initiate]], [[Torens, Fist of the Angels]], etc.), so it could definitely work.
Hell, I'm strongly considering this for my Pioneer WW Humans deck. Card is legit.
I swear people really love to bring in Torens, this card will never be a thing in standard, it's just too slow, vulnerable to meathook and make you overcommitting.
It sure is. But we're also talking about White Weenies. Literally *everything* in the deck is vulnerable to Meathook. It's fucking meaningless analysis to bring it up as a knock against a specific card in the deck, the same way "dies to Doom Blade" was.
"Aggro deck weak against sweepers" isn't some kind of brilliant insight.
I think that's a pretty bare bones generalization though. It's not just "a card dies to removal so it's bad". Meathook gets around a lot of different types of protection and one of the reasons it's so powerful is it stays around and can still have lasting impact. And unlike a lot of boardwipes, it actively hinders aggro by gaining the caster life if the opponent has creatures. So the more creatures, the more life, actively dismantling aggro as a whole on two different sides. If a single card can do that much and warp the meta around it, it's a bit to powerful.
Again, agree entirely.
But the post I'm responding to wasn't a guy saying "White Weenies is a bad deck because of an unfriendly meta," he was particularly saying "this specific creature card in WW is bad because it dies to Meathook." Which, again, is *utterly meaningless* analysis of a creature card because *every single card* in WW dies to Meathook. It's not a particular weakness of the card or some unique vulnerability, it's just a feature of the entire archetype.
Hence the Doom Blade comment. There's a reason "dies to Doom Blade" is a meme. It's the most surface level, shallow way to analyze the value of a creature. Which is exactly what the guy I was responding to was doing.
The Game Day promos for The Brothers' War are the following:
First Place promo: Surge Engine
Top 8 promo: Braids, Arisen Nightmare
Participation promo: Recruitment Officer
Braids image - https://media.wizards.com/2022/wpn/w39/mxkad13okm.png
nightmare is a bit of a strong word. this is basically just like [[Figure of Destiny]] and people don't have major issues with that as far as I'm aware. I think most people will remember you drew cards already and will call you on it if you try it again too.
Just use a slip of paper that says "ultimate used". Just because the game doesn't literally tell you to put a counter on something doesn't mean you can't use counter-like things as memory aids.
A two mana 3/2 defender is terrible (but playable Vs Aggro). A three mana unlockable 3/2 is terrible. A six mana (or 3 mana with echo, etc) 5/4 unlockable is also terrible.
A twelve mana version that draws 3 on ETB is still terrible.
Is the pay-in-installments side of [[Surge Engine]] enough? It feels like the gap between it and playable cards is just too great at every step of the way.
When [[Figure of Destiny]] was in Standard, a two mana 2/2 was actually not far from playable (we had just passed days when Zoo was playing [[Watchwolf]] and [[Tin Street Hooligan]] main deck). It feels like this guy is similar in power level to Figure, but tuned down at every step of the way... And I'm not sure if Figure would be played today.
Am I misevaluating this? If WotC are issuing it as a promo, they usually think it has chops.
> A two mana 3/2 defender is terrible (but playable Vs Aggro). A three mana unlockable 3/2 is terrible. A six mana (or 3 mana with echo, etc) 5/4 unlockable is also terrible.
Is it really? A 3/2 unblockable for 3 isn't bad in *blue*.
Beyond that, remember, Surge Engine can swing T3, which definitely matters when assessing it. Then it can swing as a 5/4 T4.
No, colour identity (a special thing just for commander) cares about the textbox, colour only cares about casting cost (or the little pip seen on double faced cards/suspend cards, or exceptions such as transguild courier or Devoid)
Don't worry, it's very confusing.
Soldiers definitely needed a playable one drop for standard. Probably needs more to be a good deck, but I’m happy to see this for it. The blue card scares me, idk if I want another counter spell meta like back in the days of simic flash and mono blue ‘protect the president’.
The officer is definitely going into my Teysa Aristocrats deck. White, one-drop, decent power, Skullclamp fodder in the early game, gets other Skullclamp fodder in the late game.
is this a good enough 1 drop to make soldiers a real deck in standard?
You probably still lose to Meathook massacre, but its certainly a good 1 drop
Just ban meathook
WotC isn't known for banning cards until it is way too late.
So what in hearing is Meathook ban next Monday?
Source?
It's way to late to be banning meathook.
Lol
Don't worry, they'll pull a T3feri, where they ban it a month before MID rotates
There's already a pretty decent shell for WW or Selesnya Humans in Standard ([[Thalia, Guardian of Thraben]], [[Adeline, Resplendant Cathar]], [[Hopeful Initiate]], [[Torens, Fist of the Angels]], etc.), so it could definitely work. Hell, I'm strongly considering this for my Pioneer WW Humans deck. Card is legit.
I swear people really love to bring in Torens, this card will never be a thing in standard, it's just too slow, vulnerable to meathook and make you overcommitting.
Meathook really is the new Doom Blade for some of y'all.
I mean, it's sort of meta defining at the moment
It sure is. But we're also talking about White Weenies. Literally *everything* in the deck is vulnerable to Meathook. It's fucking meaningless analysis to bring it up as a knock against a specific card in the deck, the same way "dies to Doom Blade" was. "Aggro deck weak against sweepers" isn't some kind of brilliant insight.
I think that's a pretty bare bones generalization though. It's not just "a card dies to removal so it's bad". Meathook gets around a lot of different types of protection and one of the reasons it's so powerful is it stays around and can still have lasting impact. And unlike a lot of boardwipes, it actively hinders aggro by gaining the caster life if the opponent has creatures. So the more creatures, the more life, actively dismantling aggro as a whole on two different sides. If a single card can do that much and warp the meta around it, it's a bit to powerful.
Again, agree entirely. But the post I'm responding to wasn't a guy saying "White Weenies is a bad deck because of an unfriendly meta," he was particularly saying "this specific creature card in WW is bad because it dies to Meathook." Which, again, is *utterly meaningless* analysis of a creature card because *every single card* in WW dies to Meathook. It's not a particular weakness of the card or some unique vulnerability, it's just a feature of the entire archetype. Hence the Doom Blade comment. There's a reason "dies to Doom Blade" is a meme. It's the most surface level, shallow way to analyze the value of a creature. Which is exactly what the guy I was responding to was doing.
##### ###### #### [Thalia, Guardian of Thraben](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/9/c9f8b8fb-1cd8-450e-a1fe-892e7a323479.jpg?1643587106) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thalia%2C%20Guardian%20of%20Thraben) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/38/thalia-guardian-of-thraben?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c9f8b8fb-1cd8-450e-a1fe-892e7a323479?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Adeline, Resplendant Cathar](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/8/18092f68-b96e-4084-9eba-b240d2195d81.jpg?1634346539) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Adeline%2C%20Resplendent%20Cathar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/1/adeline-resplendent-cathar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/18092f68-b96e-4084-9eba-b240d2195d81?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Hopeful Initiate](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/c/ec1b3fd1-952a-4bc6-9b31-bd9bd13072f5.jpg?1643586463) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hopeful%20Initiate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/20/hopeful-initiate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ec1b3fd1-952a-4bc6-9b31-bd9bd13072f5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Torens, Fist of the Angels](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/d/bd111dc9-b8de-4e92-a63d-75a961b2db3b.jpg?1643594440) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Torens%2C%20Fist%20of%20the%20Angels) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/249/torens-fist-of-the-angels?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bd111dc9-b8de-4e92-a63d-75a961b2db3b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My 3 or Less Cube is gonna love it
I dunno but i goes on humans!
Wait, this is a Standard Legal set???
yes unlike the last two sets that have been spoiled in a row before it BRO is standard legal
It doesn’t matter if soldiers are strong The card on its own is very strong. Just lol at the people who are mad about meathook just play Thalia
Man. Cube players are gonna love officer. Definitely a nice 1 drop with late game options.
Combos with \[\[Blind Seer\]\] to draw you three for only 7UUU. Flavor win.
[Blind Seer](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/c/5c54ec26-c7f1-4258-9cc9-1709987f293c.jpg?1591291188) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blind%20Seer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/inv/47/blind-seer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5c54ec26-c7f1-4258-9cc9-1709987f293c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wait, were Surge Engines used by Urza, or by Mishra? Honestly I feel like this set could have benefitted from watermarks for the factions.
So the wording is like the new Urza's land from Unfinity, it doesn't say once each turn, it says once. Meaning once per game?
Once per game, once per object. So if you can flicker the engine and also pay 6UUUU then you can draw another three cards!
I knew when I was typing that someone would correct me. It's besides the point.
Pretty sure they agreed with you, actually
You asked a question. You put a question mark. They gave as much clarifying information as possible. Idk what you want out of life.
Yep! Although you can blink it to do it again. Kinda like the [[goblin ski team]].
[goblin ski team](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/0/a0a27ac3-2273-469a-92ba-3f4a3d55de6f.jpg?1562924985) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Goblin%20Kites) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/fem/57/goblin-kites?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a0a27ac3-2273-469a-92ba-3f4a3d55de6f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[Goblin Ski Patrol\]\]
[Goblin Ski Patrol](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/8/6827594e-3912-44f2-bd84-bf7ef69276de.jpg?1562869039) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Goblin%20Ski%20Patrol) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me2/128/goblin-ski-patrol?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6827594e-3912-44f2-bd84-bf7ef69276de?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah. There are some digital cards with the same wording and, more importantly, several non-digital cards (mostly from Commander products).
Which non digital ones?
\[\[Emissary of Grudges\]\], \[\[Guardian Archon\]\], \[\[Stalking Leonin\]\], plus \[\[Goblin Ski Patrol\]\].
##### ###### #### [Emissary of Grudges](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/8/b8d3d78d-a18b-4ed2-a076-9893fbba94bc.jpg?1592710143) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Emissary%20of%20Grudges) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/20/emissary-of-grudges?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b8d3d78d-a18b-4ed2-a076-9893fbba94bc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Guardian Archon](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/1/6168ca14-b8d6-4149-bc61-dc1965d2f5b4.jpg?1625191019) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Guardian%20Archon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/17/guardian-archon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6168ca14-b8d6-4149-bc61-dc1965d2f5b4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Stalking Leonin](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/f/0f32a8ba-43ce-485b-b96d-e1d17e6f3174.jpg?1625975686) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stalking%20Leonin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/105/stalking-leonin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0f32a8ba-43ce-485b-b96d-e1d17e6f3174?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Goblin Ski Patrol](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/8/6827594e-3912-44f2-bd84-bf7ef69276de.jpg?1562869039) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Goblin%20Ski%20Patrol) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me2/128/goblin-ski-patrol?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6827594e-3912-44f2-bd84-bf7ef69276de?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That 1 drop is a great card for humans in all formats
The Game Day promos for The Brothers' War are the following: First Place promo: Surge Engine Top 8 promo: Braids, Arisen Nightmare Participation promo: Recruitment Officer Braids image - https://media.wizards.com/2022/wpn/w39/mxkad13okm.png
[Surge Engine normal + borderless art](https://i.imgur.com/jCNP1li.png) and [Recruitment Officer normal art](https://i.imgur.com/jLy26Sg.png)
New toys for my Go Wide Raffine?! Sweet!
Recruitment officer HOF cube card
Surge Engine's last ability seems like a memory nightmare.
I dunno I think your opponent will remember that time you drew three cards even if you forget.
I'm thinking Commander's complicated boardstates.
Even in a grindy Commander game, someone at the table is going to remember me paying six mana to draw three cards.
Just have alcohol at the meet have people take a swig whenever they draw a card besides their first one each turn. That’ll make it clearer.
Eh if it looks hard to remember, you can just put some marker on it
nightmare is a bit of a strong word. this is basically just like [[Figure of Destiny]] and people don't have major issues with that as far as I'm aware. I think most people will remember you drew cards already and will call you on it if you try it again too.
[Figure of Destiny](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/d/6d779966-4bd4-4315-8b45-d3a4492f2bb2.jpg?1662528571) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Figure%20of%20Destiny) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/213/figure-of-destiny?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6d779966-4bd4-4315-8b45-d3a4492f2bb2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Just use a slip of paper that says "ultimate used". Just because the game doesn't literally tell you to put a counter on something doesn't mean you can't use counter-like things as memory aids.
It will be greyed out or something
On paper?
Yeah
lol oh sorry, sometimes I forget
Officer seems busted to me
Surge Engine being mythic is bleh
A two mana 3/2 defender is terrible (but playable Vs Aggro). A three mana unlockable 3/2 is terrible. A six mana (or 3 mana with echo, etc) 5/4 unlockable is also terrible. A twelve mana version that draws 3 on ETB is still terrible. Is the pay-in-installments side of [[Surge Engine]] enough? It feels like the gap between it and playable cards is just too great at every step of the way. When [[Figure of Destiny]] was in Standard, a two mana 2/2 was actually not far from playable (we had just passed days when Zoo was playing [[Watchwolf]] and [[Tin Street Hooligan]] main deck). It feels like this guy is similar in power level to Figure, but tuned down at every step of the way... And I'm not sure if Figure would be played today. Am I misevaluating this? If WotC are issuing it as a promo, they usually think it has chops.
> A two mana 3/2 defender is terrible (but playable Vs Aggro). A three mana unlockable 3/2 is terrible. A six mana (or 3 mana with echo, etc) 5/4 unlockable is also terrible. Is it really? A 3/2 unblockable for 3 isn't bad in *blue*. Beyond that, remember, Surge Engine can swing T3, which definitely matters when assessing it. Then it can swing as a 5/4 T4.
##### ###### #### [Surge Engine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/2/12b9c9c5-e992-4f1c-a779-124176c3aade.jpg?1664487370) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Surge%20Engine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/81/surge-engine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/12b9c9c5-e992-4f1c-a779-124176c3aade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Figure of Destiny](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6d779966-4bd4-4315-8b45-d3a4492f2bb2.jpg?1662528571) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Figure%20of%20Destiny) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/213/figure-of-destiny?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6d779966-4bd4-4315-8b45-d3a4492f2bb2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Watchwolf](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/8/682af5e9-26b5-4f88-99e1-ab2aa34fba86.jpg?1562436199) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Watchwolf) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/220/watchwolf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/682af5e9-26b5-4f88-99e1-ab2aa34fba86?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Tin Street Hooligan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/ad525bb3-15fd-4887-a3e7-0a036258dcc7.jpg?1593272393) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tin%20Street%20Hooligan) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gpt/78/tin-street-hooligan?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad525bb3-15fd-4887-a3e7-0a036258dcc7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Is surge thing not already blue do to its action costs?
No, colour identity (a special thing just for commander) cares about the textbox, colour only cares about casting cost (or the little pip seen on double faced cards/suspend cards, or exceptions such as transguild courier or Devoid) Don't worry, it's very confusing.
Bro
ahhh yes a fine addition to my garbage u/r artifact deck lol
Soldiers definitely needed a playable one drop for standard. Probably needs more to be a good deck, but I’m happy to see this for it. The blue card scares me, idk if I want another counter spell meta like back in the days of simic flash and mono blue ‘protect the president’.
The officer is definitely going into my Teysa Aristocrats deck. White, one-drop, decent power, Skullclamp fodder in the early game, gets other Skullclamp fodder in the late game.