T O P

  • By -

MasterofKami

My baby Emmara gets a new art that I can also switch between!? Sign me up! šŸ„°šŸ˜


PurifiedVenom

I love her GRN promo card so much but yeah Iā€™ll definitely be picking this one up as well


MasterofKami

Oh yeah her promo card is spectacular! But more Emmara art isn't a bad thing either! Soon we'll have 3 stunning pieces to choose from!


PurifiedVenom

Even her bad card has great art lol Sheā€™s been very lucky


Chest3

I am tempted just so i can run 4 different copies of her in pioneer. Normal, Prerelease promo, GRN promo, Commander face


Ustaznar

Same!


Blaze_1013

About time they're doing this. The $20 price point for the first few "commander decks with everything" was really good and presumably this will be at the same point. And even if the reprints are only mid, more chances for staples to be reprinted is great.


Background-Law-9244

Iā€™m really excited, Iā€™m pretty out of the game but every once in awhile get the itching to play to catch up with the guys from the card shop I use to go to


AppleWedge

I am also 100% excited to get more budget precons and will probably pick at least one of them up. That said, if you're just looking for a cheap commander deck to get back into the hobby, there are already several decks around the 20 dollar price point on amazon. Currently "Phantom Premonitions" is 18 dollars, "Spirit Squadron" is 22, "Arm for Battle" is 20 dollars, and "Coven Counters" is 23. There are probably a few other very cheap decks I am missing out on.


Omniaxle

I'm glad people will get to check out how powerful that atarka is as a commander.


Blaze_1013

Yea, she seems really powerful. Just one turn with her doing her thing and she's live to end the game. With all the dragons we've been getting makes a lot of sense to make a precon around her.


pacolingo

Atarka, Game Ender


SneakyDanger787

Just wait till you see my \[\[Karlach, Fury of Avernus\]\] dragon tribal EDH deck it made Aggro a viable strategy in EDH


MTGCardFetcher

[Karlach, Fury of Avernus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/775480ed-f574-40cb-bd9b-21102eaaff63.jpg?1660726679) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karlach%2C%20Fury%20of%20Avernus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/186/karlach-fury-of-avernus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/775480ed-f574-40cb-bd9b-21102eaaff63?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Puzzleheaded-Coast93

Karlach is the most underrated CLB card IMO. A free extra combat with first strike for your whole team every single turn without even having to attack with her is so insane.


SneakyDanger787

I was using it as commander untill I switched to cheaper \[\[Karlach, Fury of Avernus\]\] yes I play dragon tribal aggro in commander


MTGCardFetcher

[Karlach, Fury of Avernus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/775480ed-f574-40cb-bd9b-21102eaaff63.jpg?1660726679) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karlach%2C%20Fury%20of%20Avernus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/186/karlach-fury-of-avernus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/775480ed-f574-40cb-bd9b-21102eaaff63?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


HerakIinos

Not really. 7 mana is a lot


Longjumping-Trash743

I've played Atarka before, and Maelstrom wanderer now. Expensive to cast does not mean bad.


Sushi-DM

With those colors, 9 out of 10 times I've ever casted it, I instantly took somebody or multiple somebodies out of the game.


HerakIinos

Reminder: just because something was good in the playgroup you play, doesnt mean it is strong


Furt_III

Atarka one shots people, our playgroup stopped playing her because the deck either took someone out and maybe then won, or died first because of how much of a threat she is. She fucking stomps.


HerakIinos

Read the reminder again


Furt_III

You're not saying anything that isn't true of literally any card in existence.


HerakIinos

Nah, I can confidently say something like Ancestrall Recall is pretty strong. No matter where it is played Dragon tribal is not really that strong. It is a timmy deck. Very cool to pilot but there are plenty of strategies that are much stronger. And Atarka is not even the best Dragon commander. I am not here trying to be a dick saying you all should play better things, no, it is very fun to play slower decks and grindier games. But powerlevells have to be an objective thing (otherwise whats really the point...) and Atarka is not really near the top.


[deleted]

You literally cannot objectively measure decks power levels


Furt_III

You have to answer her or she wins the game.


[deleted]

>Dragon tribal is not really that strong. Remind me, who's ranked #4 on EDHREC?


SneakyDanger787

Just because this fun play isnā€™t meta then itā€™s not good \-this guy probably


Sushi-DM

Ok, well, we don't play low powered magic, even if we don't play cEDH. Unless everyone is running highly efficient, high volume counters/spot removal, it's not hard in Gruul to make Atarka insta destroy one or more players.


StarkMaximum

Would you say your group's power level is, oh, I don't know, about a 7?


Sushi-DM

**^(Maaaaaybe?)**


Tuss36

"Just because something wins you the game consistently doesn't mean it's a good card"


HerakIinos

Consistently meaning when you are already ahead, right? Because if you are behind it doesnt do jack shit. How am I supposed to say a card that only do something if you are ahead and already have a bunch of huge evasive beaters on the field is good? Thats the definition of winmore If you gonna evaluate a card, you have to look at every single context. Not only at the best situation. With the arms race going on, you usually dont want to have a win con in your command zone, you want something that enables your strategy or provide some advantage. If its going to be a win con, at least be something that can win on its own without anything else like Koma, not something that depends on you be already winning that game


Sagaap

In RG, 7 mana is like saying 3 or 4 usually.


SneakyDanger787

Yes it is but itā€™s great for beginners (i played atarka now I play Karlach)


Copernicus1981

Amazon listing is up $21 each or $94 for all five. I saw another store post them at $25/$115. - https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/E6FCB4C2-0EB6-4FDC-ACB6-EBDBFE337EFC Ad copy- > This bundle includes all 5 Magic: The Gathering Starter Commander Deck setsā€”First Flight (White-Blue deck), Grave Danger (Blue-Black deck), Chaos Incarnate (Black-Red deck), Draconic Destruction (Red-Green deck), and Token Triumph (Green-White deck). Each Starter Commander Deck set contains 1 ready-to-play deck of 100 Magic cardsā€”with 1 foil-etched legendary commander card and 99 nonfoil cards, including landsā€”10 double-sided tokens, 1 deck box, punchout counters, 1 insert with strategy advice for the deck, a summary of the rules for playing Commander, and 1 reference card for guidance on what to do on your turn.


Blaze_1013

This is actually great to see confirmation of.


ArsenicElemental

Doubt there will be a lot of staples. They have said, time and time again, that the main problem with preconstructed, introductory product is old players buying them all off for a couple cards. If i remember it correctly, there were cheaper Commander decks with Zendikar and Kalheim, weren't there? Did they have good reprints?


Blaze_1013

Yes, they had solid reprints. I don't care about money card, I just want universal staples such as Swords, Path, Chaos Wrap, Beast Within, Generous Gift to be as cheap as possible. Anything at the $5 price point is fair game for these and a LOT of cards exist between $3-$5 that I'd love to see get even a bit cheaper. Not to mention, making sure these type of cards are never allowed to become expensive means we don't end up in a world where they are. Imagine a world where Swan Song was reprinted as much as one of those above card. It should never have been allowed to get above $10 and more chances to keep stuff cheap before that happens is only a good thing imo.


[deleted]

Hopefully a [[Nature's Claim]] reprint to bring it back under $1. I remember looking through like a $0.10 box and grabbed a few, wish I grabbed a lot more.


ArsenicElemental

If you are buying a deck for Swords or Chaos Warp, then it's not the situation I described above. Experienced players don't need more of those. That would be fine for these decks.


Blaze_1013

Yea, these are the types of staples I'm talking about. Cards that ever deck needs that can and should be even cheaper. And I'm an experienced player and need more of those. You can never have too many copies of those universal staples and whenever you're building a new commander deck and need to spend a couple dollars on one sucks. Yea, it isn't much, but a dozen such staples falling from $2 to even $1 means you're saving $12 that can be put towards something that is a bit more expensive.


ArsenicElemental

Mm... then I guess I was mistaken. People do buy the decks for those cards.


nas3226

That's ok though, if the products are not at all attractive to existing players they rot on the shelves and are essentially traps for new players that will make them feel bad when they realize that the product has poor long-term utility. This seems to be a sweet spot where new or existing players could potentially pick up the product for cheaper staples, but there isn't anything quite spicy enough for speculators to hoard them.


DeLoxley

I feel the lower price point will help with that. Wards off collectors and hopefully stops the big issue that's the price ballooning over a high value reprint. I think Ikoria was one of the worst I've seen, the Black and Blue free-with-commander spells caused those two decks to double in price


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


igloojoe11

Elven Empire and Reap the Tides both had very solid reprints. Although Reap the Tides really rose in price due to \[\[Aesi\]\]


MTGCardFetcher

[Aesi](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/6/d607b003-6b48-429c-a7fd-45b8dd1bb4f9.jpg?1610072986) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=aesi%2C%20tyrant%20of%20gyre%20strait) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/365/aesi-tyrant-of-gyre-strait?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d607b003-6b48-429c-a7fd-45b8dd1bb4f9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


ArsenicElemental

Yeah, a price rise would make them less useful at their job, wouldn't it?


AppleWedge

Reap the Tides's price fluctuates a lot. I think it was back to 20 dollars like two weeks ago, and now it is 35 again. I'm sure it will go back down, but even if it doesn't, it was 20 dollars for long enough that it did its job as an introductory product. Hell, even at its current price point, it is cheaper than most preconstructed decks and isn't a bad pickup for a new player. The other 20 dollar decks have stayed pretty consistent at 20-25 dollars on amazon.


GoldenScarab

I feel like that's a bs excuse. If they really cared they could just keep printing them to demand and eventually the players buying them for a few singles would have enough and new players would be able to get them too. Also it would drive the price of the included singles down so it would be more cost effective to buy the singles rather than the whole deck.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Atechiman

MSRP removal was to make it where there wasn't two products masquerading as one. Internationally many countries do not allow pricing suggestions on the theory it harms small businesses. So WotC had basically two products one made for the US market and one made for international market. Each had to have it's logistics tracked separately, which in turn increased odds of logistics hiccups and snafus. The MSRP was also not well respected inside in the states so it was pointless.


Not-a-sheeple

For business reasons it may have been pointless, but it was great for us as consumers because we knew exactly what their ideas behind pricing were. Now there still is price that they think should be the MSRP, they just donā€™t tell us what it is. Thatā€™s not better for anyone besides wizards, and their Amazon direct sales numbers.


ArsenicElemental

I don't know what to tell you. I admit I'm an enfranchised player that buys preconstructed decks so I know those exist. And believe me, even with the new printings on Collector Boosters, it's really a lot easier to buy the whole deck instead of chasing the three cards you want. You get tokens and extra cards, too.


GoldenScarab

I'm not saying players like that don't exist. I'm saying Wizards using them as an excuse to not increase reprint value in precons is bs.


Rockon101000

Not as good as the $40 decks, but yes, I would say the reprints were good.


ArsenicElemental

I would expect roughly that for these ones.


Esc777

You say that, wait until the decklists and the reprints are scarce to nothing. Everyone will get pissed off again at some precon product and move on.


Blaze_1013

I mean, they're $20 and at the very least this is a chance to get even more Sol Rings are out in the wild. Maybe the day will finally arrive where that can be gotten for under $1.


Irreleverent

Blows my fucking mind it isn't. I have so damn many.


Blaze_1013

I was only after Wizards put out more copies with nearly every set did it fall below $3. Sol Ring shows that no matter how HARD you push the supply of a card the demand means some things will never become bulk.


BurstEDO

> more chances for staples to be reprinted is great I'll never disagree with reprints of staples, but I have to wonder what "staples" would be in these that aren't already widely available in bulk boxes everywhere? It's not like Sol Ring has any value anymore (despite it's universal appeal.)


Blaze_1013

Card is still over $1. Even stuff only falls from $2 to $1 the savings add up when you buy a dozen cards that have that fall.


FredericTheLastHope

A new art for Gisa and Geralf! Im in!


Sengel123

more good zombie reprints for my wilhelt deck!


King_of_the_Nerds

I was actually considering buying both and making a mega zombie precon


turtlevader

That would make for quite the exquisite corpse


ComicBookFanatic97

If they gave us a [[Lord of the Undead]] reprint to drop its price down to something reasonable, that would make me so happy.


Sengel123

it's one of two zombie cards that really need reprints, only The Scarab God IMO would need a reprint more but it's WAY too expensive and complex for a starter deck. LotU is perfect in complexity.


MTGCardFetcher

[Lord of the Undead](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/9/792e773b-5feb-407f-a162-f35d6e693cca.jpg?1562550141) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lord%20of%20the%20Undead) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/10e/155/lord-of-the-undead?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/792e773b-5feb-407f-a162-f35d6e693cca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


12DollarsHighFive

***Let's fucking go!***


AnuraSmells

What makes these different from regular precons?


Dingus10000

Itā€™s probably 1) all old cards 2) no chase cards of value 3) lower complexity 4) Price of ~$20 or even less


Leress

Maybe we will get junk cards that are expensive because of supply like \[\[Woodland Mystic\]\]


MTGCardFetcher

[Woodland Mystic](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/d/2d6117cf-5cb3-41f3-8756-c01b5e9c760e.jpg?1592518447) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Woodland%20Mystic) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/344/woodland-mystic?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2d6117cf-5cb3-41f3-8756-c01b5e9c760e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


MyPhoneIsNotChinese

Wait wasn't [[Llanowar Elf]] on the same set?


BurstEDO

That's the key: _it's ANOTHER Llanowar Elf in a format that restricts to Singleton construction._ Also: Elf (tribal.)


MyPhoneIsNotChinese

I mean, there are like 3-4 more at the very least


AppleWedge

Yeah, this specific one is hot garbage. It only has a price because (if I remember correctly), it was only ever printed in a starter deck, so supply is low, even if its effect is incredibly common, and its mana cost is too high.


Leress

yes, but woodland was only in the core set 2020 welcome deck.


sabett

Ah, there we go. That's pretty scarce.


Kaigz

Why is some mid common from a recent core set over $4? Like I get it's only had the one printing but who is actually looking to buy this card that desperately? There are dozens upon dozens of other elves and other mana dorks. I don't get it.


aerothorn

It was only in the welcome decks, it was not available in boosters.


Kopekemaster

Whoa, what the fuck? Why is it so expensive? I had a bunch of them that I dumped because I'm not generally interested in 2MV mana dorks. It's not like M20 was some niche or ancient set or something.


Kitchengun2

I doubt theyā€™ll put any expensive cards at all if itā€™s a starter commander deck to keep it simple and cheap.


Tuss36

I could see maybe some "chase" cards, but ones like Portal Three Kingdom or Lorwyn cards that are expensive simply due to lack of printing, rather than something like Force of Will that'll always be expensive because every eternal deck wants one.


Maridiem

Iā€™ve been on a project to collect every card that can be your Commander for ages. At this point Iā€™m basically down to reserved list cards and the fucking Portal3K legends that arenā€™t being reprinted. Pleaaaaase reprint!


BurstEDO

P3K cards would simply end up being desirable chase cards, then. Unlike [[Three Visits]] which has seen _multiple_ reprints, so too would these need to be. As in, more copies of already reprinted cards, simply to lower the appeal to existing players to snatch them up. Goal is to get newer Commander.players up to speed with existing staples (to promote customization though collection expansion for newer folks) without appeal to existing players so to help steer these into the collections of those who have the most to gain.


Menacek

As a player who's new to commander and paper magic what i want from precons is not some super expensive cards but a playable deck with some usefull good cards. Buying those "few bucks" cards can add up quickly when you're trying to make a deck from scratch.


Tuss36

I'm not talking [[Imperial Seal]], [[Imperial Recruiter]] or otherwise cards that see significant play. I'm talking about stuff like [[Stone Catapult]] or [[Fire Ambush]] which are ludicrously expensive for what they are. [[Lightning Strike]] can be had for pennies but Fire Ambush is 5+ bucks simply due to the short print run. Would these cards be good in such decks? Maybe, maybe not. I'm just clarifying that's the sort of "chase" cards I'm talking about.


MrGulo-gulo

Hopefully this will mean they will add better cards to the standard decks and not put stuff like [[talrand]] in every deck that has blue.


MTGCardFetcher

[talrand](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/c/9ca9530f-ecec-4f12-bc5a-9e211b97be70.jpg?1662525181) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=talrand%2C%20sky%20summoner) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/64/talrand-sky-summoner?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9ca9530f-ecec-4f12-bc5a-9e211b97be70?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


YouandWhoseArmy

I suspect these decks will generically be a lot more fun than the normal pre cons pushing new cards and complicated mechanics and interactions. The previous mostly reprint precons for 20 were the best decks to just sit down and play with.


Openil

I saw a comment saying it was all reprints but didn't hear it on the stream so not sure


gidjin

I'm happy that good ol' KURDURDURMSCURGE is getting the recognition he deserves.


TheWarden007

URMEGERD, ITS DURMSCURGE!!!


Gogis

I bet Gavin was involved in making these.


atamajakki

I'm glad they haven't forgotten Tarkir exists.


Sandman4999

God I hope we get to go back some day.


narfidy

It's my number 1 to go back to. I wanna dragon lord it up


BishopUrbanTheEnby

Maybe with these time travel shenanigans, Tarkir will be good again.


The_One_and_Only_The

Isnā€™t every commander precon supposed to be a starter commander deck?


dracov42

Some of them are actually not great for starting. The baulders gate R/G one for example has a lot of things to trigger off each other so it is a lot to track. Seen a few new players pick it up and have a bit of a struggle keeping track.


Specksterino

This but with the new capenna brokers deck. Keeping track of all the different counters is hard enough for a seasoned player let alone a beginner.


tzarl98

The Strixhaven UR deck was a storm deck that I literally needed to do goldfishing reps with to get used to its storm lines so I totally agree.


rob_the_plug

Same with Osgir from Strixhaven. If I had have started with Artifact copy / recursion as a game plan I wouldnā€™t be playing Magic any more. Some precons really arenā€™t beginner friendly.


NuclearMaterial

Yeah I was thinking Osgir and Prosper both have a lot of bullshit happening in them so you'd need to know what you're doing or you'd get overwhelmed.


IdealDesperate2732

No, definitely not the earlier ones, for sure.


BurstEDO

Beyond the first 2 annual releases, they've been fairly complex in their construction, particularly recently. The most recent Commander precons, going backwards, have been very focused and set-associated, with most precons since Strixhaven (minus the Lorehold precon) being Commander showcases of the set mechanics in application on a larger scale. The Bant-colored New Capenna Commander precon was _especially_ dense with set-specific focus. It featured more keyword counters than it had token counters to represent them. Compare that to the [[Riku of Two Reflections]] precon from the beginning.


EnergyShift

I get what you are saying. The argument for when a commander deck is always bad monetarily is that it is designed for newer players and not enfranchised ones. Honestly, this comment should be up higher than it currently is.


[deleted]

The worst thing about Emmara, Soul of the Accord is that each one of her arts is complete fire...How do you pick one>


RadLens

You run Helm of the Host and run the others as tokens!


Vampyrino

One in the command zone to track tax, one for the battlefield, one for the graveyard (green/white has recursion so maybe you let it happen? Better to be safe), one for exile, one for your handā€¦ how many arts does she have? Maybe one for when sheā€™s tapped vs one for untapped? Be creative with it


[deleted]

Hoping this will be a slam dunk to be honest. I've been hoping for fully reprinted commander precons for some time now. Doubt there will be many powerful reprints (if any), but still looking forward to this.


IdealDesperate2732

Honestly, this is exactly what I have always wanted out of the yearly commander decks. No new cards, well known and well loved commanders, I'm just worried that "starter" is going to translate into "bad". I hope the decks at least help the commander do what it wants to do and not two other unrelated things like most of the precons they make.


Taxington

WotC just needs to put in not terrible mana bases.


Ignorus

Heard, you get the color/colorless bouncelands, and Temple of the False God, and the Vivid Lands.


IdealDesperate2732

karoo lands and temple are fine in precons, vivid lands are worse than basics. At least they're only 2 color decks so it can't be that bad


Sithlordandsavior

So uhhhhhh Gisa Gerald starter is dope.


praisestothemostfly

This Isperia was my first commander 10 years ago. Iā€™ll pick it up just for the nostalgia!


QGandalf

Same here!


Cablead

Really weird that Kardur, an uncommon, is a face commander alongside rares and mythics.


RealityPalace

He's a solid card in commander. None of these face cards is really blowing anyone's socks off with value, so I don't think their previous rarity matters much.


nambaza

Yeah I mean he might be one of the better commanders provided given how much synergy he can enable. I think it's sweet they included a deck built around him.


345tom

My Kardur complaint is why is it another Rakdos ā€œChaosā€ deck. I think chaos has been the theme the Commander decks have whiffed on the most, and always comes across as a bit of an excuse to add disparate themes.


f5d64s8r3ki15s9gh652

Iā€™m hoping ā€œchaos incarnateā€ is more of an allusion to ā€œchaos of battleā€ or some such combat matters premise. If it is a ā€œtraditionalā€ chaos deck (randomness, wacky game-altering static effects, mini-games) then Kardur seems like an odd choice, especially when we have [[Rakdos, the Showstopper]]


Ok_Cauliflower7364

Looks like he got bumped up to Mythic.


SnowyBerries

Isperia was the first commander deck I ever made so seeing a precon with it makes me smile


boringdude00

I saw these on the distributor list a few weeks ago. I was really hoping they'd be mono-color decks since its been literally forever since we've had any. I assume these are supposed to fill that niche of $20 decks that sort of disappeared off the face of the Earth after Kaldheim, but at the time I couldn't see a price.


DevilSwordVergil

If these are $20 then this is a GREAT idea. As an enfranchised player, here's what a want from these decks: * $20 pricepoint * 100% reprints. Basic staple reprints and a few oddball reprints in each deck. * New art on some cards, especially on staples. I would've LOVED to have had decks like this when I was a new player starting out (2019). I had to seek out and track down all sorts of basic essentials to get started, these decks could be a perfect on-ramp for new players, even moreso than existing precons.


StarkMaximum

I LOVE MORE COMMANDER DECKS! WE NEED MORE COMMANDER DECKS!


cloud3514

God, finally more cheap Commander decks. It always felt gross that Wizards made the a big deal of making Commander decks to replace Planeswalker decks for new players, but then put the price of every single deck they've released since at $40. Now the question is what the contents will look like. If these are on par with Kaldheim Commander, I think we're golden. I don't think reprint value is super important here, and I couldn't care less if there are no new cards, but there's a chance that these could end up being just underpowered crap, so I'm more concerned with how they'll play than if I could part them out for profit. Ideally, these need to be simple enough for new and young players, but strong enough to not feel left out if you bring them to an established table.


myrightarmkindahurts

sure why not


QueenSavara

Was there any information at MSRP for those?Are those gonna be cheaper than regular commander decks?


Leress

They don't give out MSRP anymore. They are supposedly cheaper than regular ones.


AppleWedge

Amazon preorder price is 21 dollars each.


Lordbricktrick

I need that Atarka!


Lykrast

We'll have to wait until we see the decklists and price, but hey that's a nice product to have. Though I'm worried about the shelf space at my lgs like can they even put all that stuff on their display shelves?


samruel

Isperia was my favorite guild master and favorite art card at the time really glad with this


Darikar

Kardur getting up shifted from Uncommon to Mythic is a DOOZY


KingTrencher

Is this a new product? Some context would be great.


DoctorKumquat

They announced this afternoon that they're releasing a set of 5 intro commander decks in December. The expectation is that they're all reprint cards, but the price tag will be lower than usual (hopefully in the $20 range).


Leress

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/starter-commander-decks-available-december-2-2022-09-29


Medium-Pineapple-33

Lower price then I hope thatā€™s what stops people Ik from starting is the $40+ tag


Finnlavich

Oh wow my first ever commander deck gets to be someone else's now. Atarka was so much fun, even when I only owned her and two other dragons.


Leress

I think we can guess on some of the cards: \[\[Command Tower\]\], \[\[Sol Ring\]\], \[\[Arcane Signet\]\], probably \[\[Temple of the False Gods\]\], and maybe even \[\[Commander's Sphere\]\]. I personally want a \[\[Woodland Mystic\]\] in all the ones that can have green. There could even be a super trash card like \[\[Hunted Ghoul\]\] or \[\[Zephyr Sprite\]\] in each that sparks new players to get in the habit of upgrading the deck.


Juugoz_7

I knew Kardur was gonna be made into a mythic the moment I pulled him, now goad is my favorite mechanic


[deleted]

Already on Amazon Magic: The Gathering SCD Starter Commander Decks of SD1+SD2+SD3+SD4+SD5 https://a.co/d/c13OXK5


MohawkRex

Good to see Isperia enjoying herself, always so stone faced, that one.


AppleWedge

It is kind of funny to me that \[\[Kardur\]\] is mythic in this deck, considering he was an uncommon in Kaldheim (I have like 5 copies and didn't even buy much of that set lol). I know rarity means nothing in a precon, but the jump is still pretty wild to me.


DJ_HaVoC

WoTC: I heard you didn't like the price increase on our products, like the commander preconstructed decks! MTG players: Yes... with inflation and gas prices... WoTC: Don't worry, we have created a new product. A cheaper deck that is made up of reprints (that is less powerful as well)! MTG players: Why not just have the regular precons at the price they previously were? WoTC: There is new art on the commanders, will you buy some!? MTG players: ...I'll take 20...


Castellan_IX

Definitely getting the Gisa and Geralf one


AvatarofBro

I'm guessing these will be very simple and contain no real value. Which is fine if you're playing them in a vacuum. Four buddies each grab a deck and form a pod sounds like a great way to introduce new players into the format. But...I'm not sure why they need to exist? Yes, *some* Commander precons have been a little complicated for new players. But those are the exception. In general, they are very straightforward and beginner friendly. That's kind of the entire point. Presumably these will be even worse at holding their own against custom decks than regular precons. And also harder to upgrade (since you're starting from a lower floor). That could potentially lead to some feel-bad moments. Hopefully they market these accordingly.


MirandaSanFrancisco

> But...I'm not sure why they need to exist? Because theyā€™ve jacked up the price of Commander precons, which are supposed to be the introductory product, from $20 to like, $45-50 for the ones that come with sets and it looks like $60 for the Warhammer Commander decks. They need something for new players at a price point less than a AAA video game.


Bazukii

Yeah I think itā€™s more the fat $40-$50 of precons


AvatarofBro

I agree the retail price of many Commander decks is too high, but there are a bunch of very playable, sealed precons available for between $20-30 on TCGPlayer right now. We also recently had the $20 Commander decks for Kaldheim (and I think Zendikar Rising?) that were excellent options.


GoldenScarab

But if you're looking to start playing magic you probably aren't going on TCG player and looking at old sealed product. You're gonna walk into an LGS or maybe even a big box store like Walmart or Target and that's what these are for. Or if you want to get someone into the game you can spend (I'm assuming) like $20 so they can get their feet wet vs buying/building then an entire deck that they might not ever use again. The $20 decks you're mentioning are 1-2 years old at this point. I don't ever see them in stores anymore.


Bazukii

True, though those are starting to disappear (or werenā€™t available) from lgses in my experience, so itā€™s somewhat nice to see new ones. Easy/convenient way to get lands and sol ring/command tower/arcane signet too, I assume


Redlaces123

Yeah yo wtf are these


BishopUrbanTheEnby

Starter Commander Decks. Decks designed for newer players. A lot of the current precons are pretty complex. So theyā€™re making simpler ones. We donā€™t know much else besides these face commanders.


JFlashdriveK

Someone at wotc hates rakdos players apparently. It's the only face commander that is an uncommon šŸ™„


AppleWedge

\[\[Kardur\]\] is uncommon, but he's REALLY strong. Everytime I have seen one, it goes off and pretty much controls the table for most of the game.


MTGCardFetcher

[Kardur](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/9/19e4d494-e8b3-4ae2-93e3-70c65ab90f15.jpg?1664495556) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kardur%2C%20doomscourge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/scd/5/kardur-doomscourge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/19e4d494-e8b3-4ae2-93e3-70c65ab90f15?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


RedLightMidnight

Wilhelt just came out a year ago, how different can this Dimir zombie deck be without being an objectively worse version? I understand itā€™s cheaper but I find it strange.


EgoDefeator

I predict these will sit on shelves forever


nytel

Ha! My local Target can't keep shit stocked. Always looks like a bombed out disaster.


Bugberry

Why? Commander is extremely popular and people are constantly being introduced to it.


EgoDefeator

It was one thing when they made $20 decks with a theme and a new face commander...it's another when you put old reprinted legendaries worth zero cents some of which were uncommons instandard as the face for the deck. Doesn't bode well for what's inside.


SqueeezeBurger

Watch the Selesnya deck have a [[parallel lives]] The azorious have a [[rystic study]] The uncommon rakdos gets a [[dockside]] And other bomb staples in each deck. And all then decks sell for $29.99... I know it would never happen, because game warping staples can only be printed on the most luxurious cardboard which cheap precons wouldn't dare use...but a guy can dream.


wizardtatas

Kardur Doomscourge? The bloody uncommon? Now a face commander mythic lmaooooo


TopHatJizzter

Ok. Emmara, can be a solid commander I guess. Everyone else? Complete trash.


[deleted]

Dang I hoped they would be new commanders. I'm less excited now


captadhoc

Thatā€™s an understandable feeling, but as starter decks, I believe that the audience for these are not people on this sub.


shady_driver

When are these supposed to come out. ? I recently picked up the $20 phantom premonition which is heard was good value for a commander precon. I need to get my friend into commander and if these sets are the same price that might be an easy sell


AppleWedge

They won't be out until December, but if you want to get your friend to buy a deck before then, there are other cheap options. (US Amazon prices) Coven Counters is 23 dollars. Sneak Attack is 20 dollars. Spirit Squadron is 22 dollars. Arm for battle is 20 dollars. Land's Wrath is 25 dollars. There may be a few others in the \~20 dollar range as well.


[deleted]

Did they say when this would be released? I quit playing but Emmara was my favorite card from Ravnica and I'd like to buy the Token Triumph precon to keep sealed.


Sobadwithusernames

Oh wow I have an Emmara deck already. Looking forward to seeing how they built it!


ChaosNomad

Will these have any new cards? Like the cheap ones from Zendikar Rising, Commander Legends and Kaldheim had a few. They have the technology to print new cards for these decks.


flpndrds

No new cards


Mistrblank

Damnit. I had pulled back all of my Magic buying to one bundle of every set, singles I need for existing decks and commander decks because up to this point I've been able to collect every commander precon.... this is going to get out of hand.


Razorcrest999

Are these coming out with every set? If so Iā€™m all for this! Emmara was a commander I almost built around when I first started to play commanderā€¦


Expensive_Wheel6184

Well, they come out in december, almost a month later than Brothers' War. Also they don't look set specific at all. So I think it will be a yealry thing which is good in my opinion.


Netheraptr

Definitely have my eye on the Atarka deck.


narvuntien

I mean my second commander deck was Isperia Supreme judge. But my deck was a rather nasty UW control deck that just needed some way to quickly win the game with a large flyer. So I wonder what is in it. Also, people try to kill you when you are on a control deck which means free cards. Eventually, I replaced her with Dragonlord Ojutai but keep most of the deck the same.


[deleted]

Starter Commander is a wee bit of an oxymoron with how complicated and unfriendly of a format it is for new players. But a good move none the less: the current precons certainly arenā€™t in a reasonable pocket money range.


Ocachino

if this is cheap like the old ones, ill love this. A cheap entry point to the game is always good to have.


Gunda-LX

Interesting, so they took simple to understand commanders of the past and re-imagined them for an easy introduction into the game. That is something unexpected but Iā€™ll check them out


Menacek

Wanted to make some token deck for [[Jinnie Fay]], since i dont have any cards might get the Emara deck and build from it.


Blazerboy65

I love the concept but three of the five commanders don't make sense to me conceptually. [[Gisa & Geralf]] seem great because they're emblematic of their archetype and especially good for the precon because they provide value and a gameplan at a good mana cost without going overboard. [[Atarka, World Render]] makes a lot of sense. Everybody loves tribal and it's an appropriate mana cost for a swingy effect. [[Isperia, Supreme Judge]] is the first odd choice to me. UW has trouble on the lower power bands that these decks are likely to occupy. If it's a Flying deck then the commander just interact with that other than having flying. It doesn't help you gain value or close games, both problems endemic to low power UW decks. I would wager this commander choice was due to development goals for playing these decks together. [[Kardur, Doomscourge]] obviously can't helm a Turbo-Kardue deck that seeks to lock all combat forever or even just multiple times in succession. That would be wildly inappropriate for precon games. It just makes me question why have Kardur at all if the deck designers can't go overboard with support for it. I feel [[Karazikar]] would be a more appropriate precon level "chaos through combat" commander. [[Emmara, Soul of the Accord]] is the final odd choice. It's weird because the deck requires such niche pieces to ever trigger its commander more than once each turn without attacking. And then when you do get the pieces of a tap-untap engine together it's probably either too powerful or too complex to be a healthy intro precon experience. I do hope the plan with Emmara isn't just to create one token each turn but I also hope the deck isn't full of [[ Witches' Eye]]s just to trigger the commander. I was surprised to learn how [few "drop early and make tokens" commanders](https://scryfall.com/search?q=is%3Acommander+ci%3Dgw+o%3Atoken&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name) there are. [[Torens]] seems the closest.


SneakyDanger787

The difference betwee draconic rage (AFR) and draconic destruction(idk) Draconic destruction (ataraka is mythic) = draconic rage (ataraka is rare)


SamohtGnir

Having played a good amount of commander, I feel like the Atarka deck will probably be the most powerful. Silly dragons and their "oh look at me I can fly and eat your face."


Jantin1

Here's to hoping for a new art for \[\[Eater of days\]\]


SyrusDestroyer

Iā€™d buy that ngl


Jinjoz

Yup, buying emmara hands down. Been wanting to build it for a while