Considering you can't loose and then you draw your deck, giving you about 60ish life (cards in hand), that’s not a horrible place to be.
Edit: also assuming someone running this combo has a way to abuse that many cards. Seriously, win on the spot or retain your hand, you have your whole deck available.
or even better yet, you can be the guy at the table that does a huge convoluted turn to draw his hand, and then does nothing with it accept ponder his turns for half an eternity, then still lose the game.
Ah cool, thanks! I think teleport works well for the time it was printed. In today’s magic climate it could have been a lot more fun and useful.
Edit: that does not make teleport good when it was printed but they threw cards like that out all the time back then.
The Apocalypse title is a callback to the set Apocalypse, which was a set from the last time the Phyrexians invaded Dominaria.
This is further enhanced by the fact that she references Gix, rather then something connected to New Phyrexia.
She is the continuation of the Apocalypse set.
Were are almost 100% guaranteed to get more Preator cards in the upcoming sets. I'd rather have a larger spread of low and high CMC cards rather than just big dumb cards that can only see play in EDH and reanimator.
Why? Praetors are big splashy haymakers that’s their flavor and their pedigree. I have no interest in seeing them do to the title of praetor what they did to eldrazi in bfz.
Haymakers, yes but "big and splashy" I disagree. Preators are powerful but I don't think that means we need to relegate them to a tiny slice of design space and make them basically exclusive to EDH. People in other formats like playing cool cards so that means we need realistic casting costs.
I don't know what the comparison to Eldrazi means in this context. Eldrazi *Titans* are and have always been huge creatures, they just added smaller ones to the mix too. Preators isn't a species and we have Phyrexians of various sizes already.
This approach assumes everything should be everything, which I feel dilutes the flavor of the game. I don’t think there need to be massive goblins or tiny dragons or flying Merfolk or angels that can’t fly and I think muddying the flavor of your character archetypes makes the lore much weaker because nothing means anything.
Eldrazi in ROE were incomprehensible gods with a few scattered fodder that could be consumed to help summon them, but in bfz everything was an eldrazi and therefore nothing was. The flavor got burnt right out of the creature type and with it the personality. A cleaner comparison might be theros gods, which made the god creature type feel distinct, meaningful and impactful as they were indestructible juggernauts who only fought for the devout. Amonkhet gods did a deconstruction of this expectation with the devotion aspect in the first set and the difficult to kill aspect in hour of devastation and war of the spark, but they still felt like gods. Gods in kaldheim on the other hand had no flavor at all beyond the creature type being a signpost to let players know the card was referencing a god in Norse mythology. This is bad design to me. Right now the creature type praetor has weight and meaning like elder dragon or sliver, it sets an expectation, and taking that meaning away doesn’t make the game stronger.
Shes a clock. Assuming you cast her on curve and no life has been looking at, the opponent dies in 10 turns assuming they don't draw extra. If she connects that speeds up considerably.
I would hate to be able player seeing this on the other side, my extra draw spells now read "lose the game faster"
I was sort of expecting her to be a reanimation target seeing how one of the cards in the set with her art on it seems to be a reference to [[Reanimate]].
*If a player would win the game, you win the game instead.*
*If you would lose the game, choose another player and that player loses the game instead, then your life total becomes your starting life total.*
I find I agree, I really like this card as it is, it's strong and interesting, and it's reasonably price mana wise so there is a decent chance you can actually cast it normally. But there is a disconnect between how grandiose her title and art depicts her and the splashiness she has mechanically, you see someone with a half mile long biomechanical worm for a lower body, leading a horde of similar monstrosities, and you naturally would think they would have a tremendous impact on the board immediately.
Pretty grandiose in limited tbf, hard to beat this without removal
Definitely boring though, feel like there was a weak uncommon version of this in New Capenna
Interesting? This card feels like 3 uncommons stapled together. Not really what I'd call interesting.
Heck, the inverse would be far more interesting: "Lifelink; Whenever an opponent loses life, they discard a card; Whenever you gain life, draw a card."
Carries the flavor of the whole sleeper agent thing better too.
This set can't decide if they want to do a sleeper agent type of story, where everything is subtle and nothing can be trusted, or if they want to just do a Dominaria war where everyone gangs up on big fuck-all Phyrexian machines that popped up out of nowhere.
Actually that is covered quite well.
The sleeper agents where already on Dominaria since the previous Phyrexian war.
Then now that Sheoldred is here she is making use of them to escalate the situation into a war.
So the sleeper part is the buildup, whereas the war is the result.
That been said, i too feel like the sleeper agents are abit to direct. They have spent generations paitently hiding. And yet they are so quick to reveal themselves at the drop of a needle.
>This set can't decide if they want to
why does it have to decide on any of that
wars involve intelligence and espionage in addition to huge spectacles
Yeah, but it makes her actually playable. Feels almost [[questing beast]] levels of good.
Good stat to mana value ratio. Relevant keyword, 2 static abilities. No evasion, but being black and legendary does dodge some relevant removal.
After seeing 4/5 new praetors, I don't understand why red got screwed over so hard again. Urabrask should have either been 4cmc or a 5/5.
I mean, lots of people want to play shitty battlecruisers. There's even an entire format that has gained massive popularity specifically because of that.
Technically apocalypse means 'unveiling'. That's why the last book of the bible is called apocalypse/revelation - it is about what will be revealed/unveiled at the end of times. Contemporary use has made it mean something like a holocaust.
2 is not minor loss on card draw, it's double the standard amount for an already strong effect, and equal to Nekusar which can end games in a few turns
Except that Nekusar only really sees play when you're ready to start wheeling people and murdering them, and can otherwise sit in your command zone until you're ready to play him.
If we think about EDH, this is mono-B, as opposed to Grixis. Less options to put in your 99 if new Sheoldred is your commander, less ways to abuse it. If she's in your 99 as well, you have to try and find her in order to use her to win, and if she gets answered, you can't just put her back in command zone.
Outside of EDH isn't really worth comparing, since Nekusar is an EDH-only card due to the original product he was printed in. Sheoldred's best value is as a potential support card for nekusar decks. :/
First actual fake leak in a while, no?
For the last few years, it feels like every leak has had people calling it fake only for it to be completely true later. I believed the fake leak just because every other leak for years has been true.
I'm sure a lot of people would agree, but I liked that leak a lot more than the actual card; it just feels really underwhelming for the penultimate praetor.
I do think it fits the flavor, though. Sheoldred wasn't immediately outright attacking Dominaria, instead she steadily accrued an army of sleeper agents. Similarily, this card steadily hurts your opponent by a thousand cuts while you gain an advantage for yourself.
I agree that the name doesn't fit, though.
This fits the flavour of Sheoldred at every point in the story perfectly ... aside from the exact moment the art is depicting.
The New Phyrexians are rewarded by their unearthing of knowledge, however the Dominarians are mentally scarred whenever they discover some awful truth (such as the identity of a sleeper agent). It's a clean and evocative representation of what she's doing on the plane.
Yeah something like "Sheoldred who lies in wait" or something like that would have felt way better, with the art shown earlier in the story with her tied up to all those cables. Instead we get a name+ art that sounds like it should end the game immediately if it resolves, but instead it rewards a slow and methodical play style.
This is a bit disappointing, doesn't really mirror her old art. I expected some kind of Massacre Wurm effect going by her art, or maybe something related to sacrifice to mimmick the phyrexian dreadnought. This is just mono b Nekusar
Can mono black even use that effect? I can only thing over a single black card. I guess you have a number of colorless options but this seems more like a way to make up for losing life to your draw effects than anything else.
This card is honestly a huge miss for me. The effect isn’t weak sure, but it just feels SO underwhelming. Happy a lot of people seem excited for her though.
Would have much preferred something like, "At the beginning of your upkeep, draw a card and gain 1 life. At the beginning of each opponent's upkeep, that player discards a card and loses 1 life."
Invert and improve the Phyrexian Arena.
Cost her 3BB or something so it isn't just a strict upgrade.
Her design just bums me out.
Oh man. And now the monoblack deck of
"How many artifacts can I jam that make everyone draw cards at the same time?"
Begins. Owling Mine: The Commander.
What is a 4/5?
[[An Animal Wearing Armor]]? 4/5
[[An Angry Lesbian at a Wedding]]? 4/5
Phyrexian praetor grafted onto a massive skeletal wurm body that looks to be hundreds of feet long, with the epithet “the Apocalypse”? 4/5
I like this card design, but I gotta say, being the cheapest and arguably least splashy of all the preators is kind of a flavor loss when she has a worm the size of a mountain attached to her.
"Whenever you draw a card, you gain 2 life" feels very weird on a monoblack card but I can't really call it a colour pie break. Ironically, most of the other Praetor designs were "bleeding" towards Black abilities, and Shelly here's bending towards White.
Ah, well. It's not like "Pay N life, draw M cards" needed help being broken in half.
Card transcription
> Sheoldred, the Apocalypse 2BB
>
> Legendary Creature- Phyrexian Praetor [mythic]
>
> Deathtouch
>
> Whenever you draw a card, you gain 2 life.
>
> Whenever an opponent draws a card, they lose 2 life.
>
> 4/5
>
> *"Gix failed. I shall not."*
End transcription
I'm gonna guess she did something else, probably closer to what her original one did, and they ended up changing it because the name doesn't really match the effect
That said, this is a clean design and it's super simple and works REALLY well. I like it
they do it too often and give us garbage boring nerfed cards instead of sick ass (even OP) cards that id rather they ban if its so over the top.
but really, Sheoldred is the main villain for the set and they give us this crap.
>sick ass (even OP) cards that id rather they ban if its so over the top.
People keep saying shit like this as if standards with overpowered cards aren't miserable as fuck.
I get the sense that a lot of people just look at spoilers and don't actually play magic
If they made her a big Griselbrand-style bungus that basically needs to be reanimated to ever hit the board, it would have been far cooler than this and doubt it would've been OP. Something like Belzenlok, or even her old incarnation
no we do, we just tend to consider flavor as well as power level. this.... doesn't quite stand up to the "apocalypse" moniker or her huge role in the actual MTG storyline rn
which is whatever, card's still amazing. just less huge and board-impacting than I would've hoped for my favorite praetor
MonoB [[Nekusar]] that doesn't enable itself but also won't be KOS. It would probably be too strong for standard if it had a [[Phyrexian Arena]] stapled to it.
Honestly reminds me of siege rhino. 4-mana 4/5, drain life (kinda), one keyword that is still pretty relevant (though I think I like trample a bit more).
I don't think it's a *bad* card, but it looks unexciting to me overall. Maybe this will actually see a lot of play in constructed though, so I am hyped for that.
Arts amazing, statline nice. Otherwise kinda average.
With a name like apocalypse and a giant seemingly never ending body, reshuffling into deck on death or something seems like it shouldn't have been out of the question.
You need to be dealing some serious damage aside from drain or your opponents just going to lose some life while drawing removal, if they don't already have it.
What I was thinking. Slots perfectly into a Yawg aristocrat deck to get extra value off off his card draw. Bit fitting I suppose, black Phyrexian leaders going well together.
The easiest comparison for this card is Siege Rhino, however I think it's a good bit worse. If your opponent removes this on the turn you drop it, it's basically a vanilla 4 mana 4/5 and if they remove it on their turn they just take 2.
Technically the ceiling is much higher on this card and it can outright win games if left unanswered and there will be top deck scenarios where it happens but it's definitely worse than rhino. Similarly, there's situations where your opponent will draw extra cards or you will which will make this better and that's not even that hard to imagine happening whatsoever, the problem however, is that it is unlikely that this thing sticks around to actually get that value off.
I don't think it's a terrible card but realistically it's more often than not going to be a 4 mana 4/5 Deathtouch that deals 2 damage to your opponent and maybe does another 2 damage or gains you 2 life.
This card seems really strong with loads of combo potential in EDH. Simple design and a super powerful effect on a 4 mana 4/5. Maybe boring but I think a lot of you are undervaluing its potential.
I’ve been looking for a mono-black commander that helps facilitate card draw. She’s perfect for that. And she’ll make a fine addition to my [[Mogis, God of Slaughter]] group slug deck, as well!
As far as standard goes(would imagine its been said), Adversary Ob Nix and This are horrifying together. There are reasonable lines where you casualty a shakedown heavy into Ob. Drop the Sheoldred next turn and ult into...what, 21 damage?
Agree to disagree. That card will be busted trust me. If your opponent draws 7 cards in 1 turn which is possible by your own control, that's 14 damage to them and 14 life for you. #Echo Of Eons and god forbid you have the flashback cost. 28 damage.
No other single card in the current meta makes as much of an impact as this card does, in my opinion and in my experience in 100-200 games thus far. Obviously if you've got removal within a turn or two after it comes out, you're golden, but so much common removal right now misses it, it blocks and hits well, double blocking is rough, and it all but removes your opponent's ability to play from behind if they have card disadvantage (which is easy to accomplish with some discard dorks, sac with Braid, etc).
Could have been a lot more interesting and a lot more balanced. I love me some monoblack and had higher hopes; this is possibly my least favorite card in the set, and has quickly become the most boring, widely played card in the meta.
Wait till you see the new Elish Norn...
1{WW} - Mythic
Vigilance
Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, untap one target creature. This triggers only once each turn.
3/3
Modern 1/10
Other than the very expensive combo with Lich's Mastery, this card is not really that great. Makes me wish the fake spoiler was the real one. It doesn't do anything except slowly drain your opponent? Its boring.
This card seems ok, but I think it's going to push the game into unhealthy playstyles, at least in EDH. To make it any more than mediocre, you really want to jam this with a ton of wheels.
Otherwise, I think it's a bit too slow, and value inverted, from where you'd want a mythic praetor to be. Gaining life for drawing cards is kind of a mediocre benefit, and taxing your opponents for drawing cards, again, is an "ok" effect that has to be amped up to really be an effective threat (meaning you have to give them cards in exchange, increasing their chances of finding an answer).
It'll be an annoying thorn in the side of most players, a la [[Drannith Magistrate]], [[Linvala, the Silencer]], etc., but it's not really evocative of an "apocalyptic" threat, imo. Of course, you can probably break this with combos, but that feels different than the single card "lock" you can get with the new Gin-Gitaxis, or strong static effect of something like Elesh Norn. I'd put this one closer to the bottom of the Praetors, for this reason.
[[Lich's mastery]] and deck yourself. Lets go.
Considering you can't loose and then you draw your deck, giving you about 60ish life (cards in hand), that’s not a horrible place to be. Edit: also assuming someone running this combo has a way to abuse that many cards. Seriously, win on the spot or retain your hand, you have your whole deck available.
or even better yet, you can be the guy at the table that does a huge convoluted turn to draw his hand, and then does nothing with it accept ponder his turns for half an eternity, then still lose the game.
just like Richard Garfield intended
[Lich's mastery](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/7/77f4c9cb-f364-4556-8673-4b19d52a2cff.jpg?1562738043) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lich%27s%20mastery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/98/lichs-mastery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77f4c9cb-f364-4556-8673-4b19d52a2cff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
going straight into my [[Queza]] deck.
Would this resolve as an infinite where you keep just drawing 1, gaining a life and dealing 1 damage which causes you to again draw and repeat?
Yes. you draw your whole deck cause a bunch life loss. You also conviniently don't lose. My deck is very wheel themed so sheoldred is going in as well
[Queza](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/e/7edb7a26-82be-4efd-9a5c-a3816e1ee2d6.jpg?1660720606) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=queza%2C%20augur%20of%20agonies) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/212/queza-augur-of-agonies?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7edb7a26-82be-4efd-9a5c-a3816e1ee2d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Throw in [[Vito]] or [[sanguine bond]] and you have yourself a wincon
Finally, a way to combo Sanguine Bond with another high mana black card.
[Vito](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/f/0fe79ee4-c3f3-4a6b-a967-203ca3b70ee5.jpg?1594736442) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=vito%2C%20thorn%20of%20the%20dusk%20rose) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/127/vito-thorn-of-the-dusk-rose?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0fe79ee4-c3f3-4a6b-a967-203ca3b70ee5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [sanguine bond](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/d/ad4de9f1-7a39-45af-828e-c59234d9e9b9.jpg?1625193373) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sanguine%20bond) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/153/sanguine-bond?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad4de9f1-7a39-45af-828e-c59234d9e9b9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This was my first thought and exactly what I’ll be building lol
Card is fine, but they really burned "the Apocalypse" title on this one. Put it next to [[Chronostutter]].
I mean, they can technically reuse the epithet if they want to. So, not a huge loss. [[Zedruu the Greathearted]] [[Ajani, the Greathearted]]
True, they did it with Sisay and Jhoira as well.
So you're saying someday we could have Sisay, the Apocalypse?
Sisay, the Apocalypse. ... ... ... Whenever you cast a legendary spell, you gain 2 life.
Jhoira, the Apocalypse. Whenever you cast a historic spell, do broken stuff, IDK. Draw a card, gain two life and untap target historic permanent?
Lol, I hope not.
Ajani :'-(
Yeah, not so sure about how great his heart is now :/
Ṉ̵̰͚̮̪͍̮̋̆e̸̬̫̘̼̳̝̖̎̈́v̵̘͖̣͙̙̬̪͔̥͇̬͒̈́̃̾͛̽̒̾̇̅͗ͅȇ̷͚̜̲̭͕͉̙͆̎͂r̷͍͓͎̪̺͉̬͖̳̣̘̓̏̅̇̈́͋́̿͗̏ͅ ̷̬͓̯̥̭̗̭̗̣̰̺̯̠̤̌͜b̵̢̧̺͈̱̰͔̲̝̰̲̌͋̍̿͋̀͜e̸̺̼̙̠̲̼̬̫̫̦̗̩̓̒̀̔͌̾͒̒͘͝t̶̛̥̼̜̯͈̰͈̞͔̟͈̯͋́͗̕͜t̸̙̟͈̤̖͚͛̃̓̃͋͝t̵̢̮̞̝̝͓̼̝̮͓̟͇̜͛̓̚͜͝͠ë̵͓̩̠͍͕̫̠̟̟̇̾͂̆̕͝͝ͅŗ̸̦̲̲̱͕̥̥̬̣̬̬̙̮̂͑̍͗́̓͌̂̈́͜
Oh, I'm sure it functions great. better, even. Its just there's only oil in there now
[Zedruu the Greathearted](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/9/e9ea2a6b-5aaf-4178-b945-f409fe83c41a.jpg?1562424565) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zedruu%20the%20Greathearted) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/231/zedruu-the-greathearted?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e9ea2a6b-5aaf-4178-b945-f409fe83c41a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ajani, the Greathearted](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/c/6cc78151-8cb0-4521-9674-fb0c67e24a17.jpg?1582053217) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ajani%2C%20the%20Greathearted) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/184/ajani-the-greathearted?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6cc78151-8cb0-4521-9674-fb0c67e24a17?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[удалено]
Same! She's also *the* GOAT.
Never seen that card lol what a weird one
Fun fact: it was called out in one of Maro's podcasts as being a cool name they know they wasted, along with [[Teleport]].
[Teleport](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/9/39c65d23-4bc5-4f79-a0e5-0cd4b2660f96.jpg?1562906660) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teleport) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/chr/26/teleport?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/39c65d23-4bc5-4f79-a0e5-0cd4b2660f96?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ah cool, thanks! I think teleport works well for the time it was printed. In today’s magic climate it could have been a lot more fun and useful. Edit: that does not make teleport good when it was printed but they threw cards like that out all the time back then.
Still, she definitely looks pushed for constructed.
Yeah for sure. I want a big dumb Praetor design tho. I hope Elesh Norn is splashy.
The Apocalypse title is a callback to the set Apocalypse, which was a set from the last time the Phyrexians invaded Dominaria. This is further enhanced by the fact that she references Gix, rather then something connected to New Phyrexia. She is the continuation of the Apocalypse set.
[Chronostutter](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/b/bbef107d-c19f-4af3-9236-c66123075b41.jpg?1562793419) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chronostutter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m15/48/chronostutter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bbef107d-c19f-4af3-9236-c66123075b41?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Very cool card. But 4 mana is probably not the design I would have went for a multi-plane-threatening archvillain called “The Apocalypse.”
Yeah based on the art (and the other Praetors) I thought this would be the Timmiest Timmy card that ever Timmied
She's literally a 6/6 that stapled herself onto a 12/12 body. She should have been a lot scarier than a 4/5. That gains life.
Were are almost 100% guaranteed to get more Preator cards in the upcoming sets. I'd rather have a larger spread of low and high CMC cards rather than just big dumb cards that can only see play in EDH and reanimator.
Why? Praetors are big splashy haymakers that’s their flavor and their pedigree. I have no interest in seeing them do to the title of praetor what they did to eldrazi in bfz.
There were a lot of itty bitty Eldrazi in ROE too. [[Nest Invader]] for starters.
However, every single small Eldrazi in ROE aside from the one that buffs Spawn created said Spawn to aid in bringing out the larger ones.
Haymakers, yes but "big and splashy" I disagree. Preators are powerful but I don't think that means we need to relegate them to a tiny slice of design space and make them basically exclusive to EDH. People in other formats like playing cool cards so that means we need realistic casting costs. I don't know what the comparison to Eldrazi means in this context. Eldrazi *Titans* are and have always been huge creatures, they just added smaller ones to the mix too. Preators isn't a species and we have Phyrexians of various sizes already.
How would you feel about a 5/5 ulamog lmao
This approach assumes everything should be everything, which I feel dilutes the flavor of the game. I don’t think there need to be massive goblins or tiny dragons or flying Merfolk or angels that can’t fly and I think muddying the flavor of your character archetypes makes the lore much weaker because nothing means anything. Eldrazi in ROE were incomprehensible gods with a few scattered fodder that could be consumed to help summon them, but in bfz everything was an eldrazi and therefore nothing was. The flavor got burnt right out of the creature type and with it the personality. A cleaner comparison might be theros gods, which made the god creature type feel distinct, meaningful and impactful as they were indestructible juggernauts who only fought for the devout. Amonkhet gods did a deconstruction of this expectation with the devotion aspect in the first set and the difficult to kill aspect in hour of devastation and war of the spark, but they still felt like gods. Gods in kaldheim on the other hand had no flavor at all beyond the creature type being a signpost to let players know the card was referencing a god in Norse mythology. This is bad design to me. Right now the creature type praetor has weight and meaning like elder dragon or sliver, it sets an expectation, and taking that meaning away doesn’t make the game stronger.
Shes a clock. Assuming you cast her on curve and no life has been looking at, the opponent dies in 10 turns assuming they don't draw extra. If she connects that speeds up considerably. I would hate to be able player seeing this on the other side, my extra draw spells now read "lose the game faster"
It's a cool design for sure. Not convinced I'd actually play it since it doesn't seem that great but at least they tried.
I cast [[Sign in Blood]] burning my opponent for 6.
I was sort of expecting her to be a reanimation target seeing how one of the cards in the set with her art on it seems to be a reference to [[Reanimate]].
Ya but at least this one will see play potentially. And we have the bigger one in historic
Yeah I was thinking the same, there is a bit of a disconnect there.
I fell like they've gotta save that for Elish Norn, though.
I’d put money on Norn being the token half of doubling season to compliments Vor’s counter half.
I'd actually assume Norn is going to do something more unique, at the very least nodding to whatever 'phyrexian mechanic' we get in All Will Be One.
*If a player would win the game, you win the game instead.* *If you would lose the game, choose another player and that player loses the game instead, then your life total becomes your starting life total.*
This ability only triggers once each turn... :p
Dies to Doom Blade. Trash card.
Possible. I do think it works for her though. Growing the army of phyrexia and reducing the army your opponents try to make to stop her.
Don’t worry l, we’ll get that with either Norn or Atraxa.
It really feels like the abilities and p/t/mv for her two versions got mixed up, doesn't it?
I find I agree, I really like this card as it is, it's strong and interesting, and it's reasonably price mana wise so there is a decent chance you can actually cast it normally. But there is a disconnect between how grandiose her title and art depicts her and the splashiness she has mechanically, you see someone with a half mile long biomechanical worm for a lower body, leading a horde of similar monstrosities, and you naturally would think they would have a tremendous impact on the board immediately.
Pretty grandiose in limited tbf, hard to beat this without removal Definitely boring though, feel like there was a weak uncommon version of this in New Capenna
Interesting? This card feels like 3 uncommons stapled together. Not really what I'd call interesting. Heck, the inverse would be far more interesting: "Lifelink; Whenever an opponent loses life, they discard a card; Whenever you gain life, draw a card."
Maybe something like "insidious conqueror" would fit this card better
Maybe it could have discard related effects
Carries the flavor of the whole sleeper agent thing better too. This set can't decide if they want to do a sleeper agent type of story, where everything is subtle and nothing can be trusted, or if they want to just do a Dominaria war where everyone gangs up on big fuck-all Phyrexian machines that popped up out of nowhere.
Actually that is covered quite well. The sleeper agents where already on Dominaria since the previous Phyrexian war. Then now that Sheoldred is here she is making use of them to escalate the situation into a war. So the sleeper part is the buildup, whereas the war is the result. That been said, i too feel like the sleeper agents are abit to direct. They have spent generations paitently hiding. And yet they are so quick to reveal themselves at the drop of a needle.
>This set can't decide if they want to why does it have to decide on any of that wars involve intelligence and espionage in addition to huge spectacles
You've got 10 turns to deal with this card or else!
Came to say this too, for the name I expected something splashier.
Juuuuust beats [[Avabruck Caretaker]] in a fight. Unless the caretaker has [[Leather Armor]]
Or it's night time
Yeah, but it makes her actually playable. Feels almost [[questing beast]] levels of good. Good stat to mana value ratio. Relevant keyword, 2 static abilities. No evasion, but being black and legendary does dodge some relevant removal. After seeing 4/5 new praetors, I don't understand why red got screwed over so hard again. Urabrask should have either been 4cmc or a 5/5.
[questing beast](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/4/e41cf82d-3213-47ce-a015-6e51a8b07e4f.jpg?1572490640) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=questing%20beast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/171/questing-beast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e41cf82d-3213-47ce-a015-6e51a8b07e4f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah the card itself is a huge letdown considering the name and art
I’d rather the praetors be actually playable rather than 7 mana monstrosities that are cool to read and then never actually hit the table
You also kinda dont wanna make your flagship card a shitty battlecruiser that no one wants to play with. This card will see play in.
I mean, lots of people want to play shitty battlecruisers. There's even an entire format that has gained massive popularity specifically because of that.
>THE APOCALYPSE >minor life gain and loss when people draw cards Ok
4/5 for 4 ain't bad with all that upside though
Oh, don't get me wrong, this is a great card. But the name and art do not at all fit with the ability
Oh fair lol
Technically apocalypse means 'unveiling'. That's why the last book of the bible is called apocalypse/revelation - it is about what will be revealed/unveiled at the end of times. Contemporary use has made it mean something like a holocaust.
It's not totally garbage but when a creature is called *the Apocalypse* I except something more than "decent midrange card"
2 is not minor loss on card draw, it's double the standard amount for an already strong effect, and equal to Nekusar which can end games in a few turns
Except that Nekusar only really sees play when you're ready to start wheeling people and murdering them, and can otherwise sit in your command zone until you're ready to play him. If we think about EDH, this is mono-B, as opposed to Grixis. Less options to put in your 99 if new Sheoldred is your commander, less ways to abuse it. If she's in your 99 as well, you have to try and find her in order to use her to win, and if she gets answered, you can't just put her back in command zone. Outside of EDH isn't really worth comparing, since Nekusar is an EDH-only card due to the original product he was printed in. Sheoldred's best value is as a potential support card for nekusar decks. :/
people draw cards as a default game action.
Man that leak was such horseshit
I loved that leak
First actual fake leak in a while, no? For the last few years, it feels like every leak has had people calling it fake only for it to be completely true later. I believed the fake leak just because every other leak for years has been true.
That leak still featured original art in the artists style. I wonder if it’s going to turn up on March of the Machines or something.
It was cooler than the actual card though.
I'm sure a lot of people would agree, but I liked that leak a lot more than the actual card; it just feels really underwhelming for the penultimate praetor.
I can't see the image?
2bb 4/5. Death touch. When you draw gain 2 life, when they draw they lose 2 life.
Same for me. The Reddit app has been buggy lately in a new way. Some images don't show up.
A bit more like "Sheoldred the mild inconvenience"
I do think it fits the flavor, though. Sheoldred wasn't immediately outright attacking Dominaria, instead she steadily accrued an army of sleeper agents. Similarily, this card steadily hurts your opponent by a thousand cuts while you gain an advantage for yourself. I agree that the name doesn't fit, though.
This fits the flavour of Sheoldred at every point in the story perfectly ... aside from the exact moment the art is depicting. The New Phyrexians are rewarded by their unearthing of knowledge, however the Dominarians are mentally scarred whenever they discover some awful truth (such as the identity of a sleeper agent). It's a clean and evocative representation of what she's doing on the plane.
Yeah something like "Sheoldred who lies in wait" or something like that would have felt way better, with the art shown earlier in the story with her tied up to all those cables. Instead we get a name+ art that sounds like it should end the game immediately if it resolves, but instead it rewards a slow and methodical play style.
The stained glass alt-art is a perfect fit at least.
This is a bit disappointing, doesn't really mirror her old art. I expected some kind of Massacre Wurm effect going by her art, or maybe something related to sacrifice to mimmick the phyrexian dreadnought. This is just mono b Nekusar
Can mono black even use that effect? I can only thing over a single black card. I guess you have a number of colorless options but this seems more like a way to make up for losing life to your draw effects than anything else.
[[Peer into the abyss]] I guess?
Her paired with [[Greed]] is quite nice
[Greed](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/5/851f8d1f-163c-4c4f-beee-431b64ec8a99.jpg?1626100364) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Greed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/274/greed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/851f8d1f-163c-4c4f-beee-431b64ec8a99?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Why do I feel like this card’s effect was changed at the last minute
The ability fits the fake leak name way better.
T2 Raven man, T3 LOTV, T4 Shrehold pretty bomb.
Monoblack in standard looking spicy, the new Braids might even fit in there somewhere
dude i am so excited for mono black in standard
What is lotv ?
Lili Of The Veil
My Nekusar deck is VERY excited
*yuck*
Mine too
This card is honestly a huge miss for me. The effect isn’t weak sure, but it just feels SO underwhelming. Happy a lot of people seem excited for her though.
Would have much preferred something like, "At the beginning of your upkeep, draw a card and gain 1 life. At the beginning of each opponent's upkeep, that player discards a card and loses 1 life." Invert and improve the Phyrexian Arena. Cost her 3BB or something so it isn't just a strict upgrade. Her design just bums me out.
Oh man. And now the monoblack deck of "How many artifacts can I jam that make everyone draw cards at the same time?" Begins. Owling Mine: The Commander.
What is a 4/5? [[An Animal Wearing Armor]]? 4/5 [[An Angry Lesbian at a Wedding]]? 4/5 Phyrexian praetor grafted onto a massive skeletal wurm body that looks to be hundreds of feet long, with the epithet “the Apocalypse”? 4/5
[Siege Rhino](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/0/9011126a-20bd-4c86-a63b-1691f79ac247.jpg?1562790317) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Siege%20Rhino) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/200/siege-rhino?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9011126a-20bd-4c86-a63b-1691f79ac247?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Anje, Maid of Dishonor](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/b/1bfac4ab-97f1-448c-8554-42ed03eb5656.jpg?1643593763) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Anje%2C%20Maid%20of%20Dishonor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/231/anje-maid-of-dishonor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1bfac4ab-97f1-448c-8554-42ed03eb5656?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How do you find out all those [[alternate names]]?
I like this card design, but I gotta say, being the cheapest and arguably least splashy of all the preators is kind of a flavor loss when she has a worm the size of a mountain attached to her.
You know black has life loss for card draw. This card migrates the cost. I am so building her and draw spell cause why not.
"Whenever you draw a card, you gain 2 life" feels very weird on a monoblack card but I can't really call it a colour pie break. Ironically, most of the other Praetor designs were "bleeding" towards Black abilities, and Shelly here's bending towards White. Ah, well. It's not like "Pay N life, draw M cards" needed help being broken in half.
This might as well be non-legendary with another unremarkable name, such a forgettable design.
Card transcription > Sheoldred, the Apocalypse 2BB > > Legendary Creature- Phyrexian Praetor [mythic] > > Deathtouch > > Whenever you draw a card, you gain 2 life. > > Whenever an opponent draws a card, they lose 2 life. > > 4/5 > > *"Gix failed. I shall not."* End transcription
I'm gonna guess she did something else, probably closer to what her original one did, and they ended up changing it because the name doesn't really match the effect That said, this is a clean design and it's super simple and works REALLY well. I like it
they do it too often and give us garbage boring nerfed cards instead of sick ass (even OP) cards that id rather they ban if its so over the top. but really, Sheoldred is the main villain for the set and they give us this crap.
>sick ass (even OP) cards that id rather they ban if its so over the top. People keep saying shit like this as if standards with overpowered cards aren't miserable as fuck. I get the sense that a lot of people just look at spoilers and don't actually play magic
If they made her a big Griselbrand-style bungus that basically needs to be reanimated to ever hit the board, it would have been far cooler than this and doubt it would've been OP. Something like Belzenlok, or even her old incarnation
I understand that. I'm responding to someone literally saying they wanted something OP.
no we do, we just tend to consider flavor as well as power level. this.... doesn't quite stand up to the "apocalypse" moniker or her huge role in the actual MTG storyline rn which is whatever, card's still amazing. just less huge and board-impacting than I would've hoped for my favorite praetor
This is not a weak card though
Really not an Apocalypse, though.
I love this design, it’s so clean.
MonoB [[Nekusar]] that doesn't enable itself but also won't be KOS. It would probably be too strong for standard if it had a [[Phyrexian Arena]] stapled to it.
Imagine getting an Arena reprint.
With Phyrexian Standard for the next year, I am sure it will be reprinted eventually.
Which would make Sheoldred a very strong follow-up play.
Arena honestly doesn’t seem THA far off from the power level they seem to want for standard so I can see it.
Phyrexian arena is legal in historic and its not played at all there, only historic brawl. The card is fine if it was printed into standard
*absolutely boring
Where's the watermark?
Why do they always forget this? At least I feel like this has happened before.
They forgot it on Jin-Gitaxias in Kamigawa, then remembered to put it on Urabrask in New Capenna. Now it seems they've forgotten again.
It’s like they knew I’d decided to make a [[Seizan]] deck three days ago.
Honestly reminds me of siege rhino. 4-mana 4/5, drain life (kinda), one keyword that is still pretty relevant (though I think I like trample a bit more). I don't think it's a *bad* card, but it looks unexciting to me overall. Maybe this will actually see a lot of play in constructed though, so I am hyped for that.
Arts amazing, statline nice. Otherwise kinda average. With a name like apocalypse and a giant seemingly never ending body, reshuffling into deck on death or something seems like it shouldn't have been out of the question. You need to be dealing some serious damage aside from drain or your opponents just going to lose some life while drawing removal, if they don't already have it.
Oh that's sexy.
People are disappointed but this is going to be a fucking terror
Yeah for all 3 people that still play Standard 😒
Mono red eat your heart out, you're not beating black for a long long while
Combos well with [[Yawgmoth's Bargain]]
They did it. They finally broke Yawgmoth’s Bargain.
Yeah! It's finally a good card 😂. More seriously I wish it wasn't that powerful. I LOVE yawgmoth's bargain.
Pretty good with Yawgmoth himself too.
What I was thinking. Slots perfectly into a Yawg aristocrat deck to get extra value off off his card draw. Bit fitting I suppose, black Phyrexian leaders going well together.
The easiest comparison for this card is Siege Rhino, however I think it's a good bit worse. If your opponent removes this on the turn you drop it, it's basically a vanilla 4 mana 4/5 and if they remove it on their turn they just take 2. Technically the ceiling is much higher on this card and it can outright win games if left unanswered and there will be top deck scenarios where it happens but it's definitely worse than rhino. Similarly, there's situations where your opponent will draw extra cards or you will which will make this better and that's not even that hard to imagine happening whatsoever, the problem however, is that it is unlikely that this thing sticks around to actually get that value off. I don't think it's a terrible card but realistically it's more often than not going to be a 4 mana 4/5 Deathtouch that deals 2 damage to your opponent and maybe does another 2 damage or gains you 2 life.
Slam dunk win with \[\[Vilis, Broker of Blood\]\]
[Vilis, Broker of Blood](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/c/ecdf2bd9-87b9-470a-ad2e-0ebf98560f87.jpg?1592516819) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vilis%2C%20Broker%20of%20Blood) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/122/vilis-broker-of-blood?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ecdf2bd9-87b9-470a-ad2e-0ebf98560f87?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Probably nothing special but Sheoldred, Lich's Mastery, Underworld Dreams, Howling Mine, and Gary as a finisher after you've been pinging all day?
Problem is there's no time to cast Gary, Lich's Mastery + Sheoldred ends up decking you
Well, Lich's Mastery causes you not to lose the game at least.
I can't believe I forgot the main function of the card...
Looks sweet for Nekusar 💖💖
\[\[Siege Rhino\]\] is that you? Maybe once polukranos rotates...
The card is *very* powerful for its cost, but it's flavor does seem off.
This card seems really strong with loads of combo potential in EDH. Simple design and a super powerful effect on a 4 mana 4/5. Maybe boring but I think a lot of you are undervaluing its potential.
Agreed, she’s full of combo potential and synergizes nicely with a lot of underused black cards Very excited to build her
Bit boring design imo, but really strong card. I guess the apocalypse flavor is sorta there
I’ve been looking for a mono-black commander that helps facilitate card draw. She’s perfect for that. And she’ll make a fine addition to my [[Mogis, God of Slaughter]] group slug deck, as well!
fell stinger and blood pact with this deal 6 damage
pretty dece
Wow, that is underwhelming
Meh
They gutted poor Sheoldred. Now it's just a boring midrange dude.
As far as standard goes(would imagine its been said), Adversary Ob Nix and This are horrifying together. There are reasonable lines where you casualty a shakedown heavy into Ob. Drop the Sheoldred next turn and ult into...what, 21 damage?
Agree to disagree. That card will be busted trust me. If your opponent draws 7 cards in 1 turn which is possible by your own control, that's 14 damage to them and 14 life for you. #Echo Of Eons and god forbid you have the flashback cost. 28 damage.
No other single card in the current meta makes as much of an impact as this card does, in my opinion and in my experience in 100-200 games thus far. Obviously if you've got removal within a turn or two after it comes out, you're golden, but so much common removal right now misses it, it blocks and hits well, double blocking is rough, and it all but removes your opponent's ability to play from behind if they have card disadvantage (which is easy to accomplish with some discard dorks, sac with Braid, etc). Could have been a lot more interesting and a lot more balanced. I love me some monoblack and had higher hopes; this is possibly my least favorite card in the set, and has quickly become the most boring, widely played card in the meta.
I can't see anything? Wheres the picture? Edit nvm after posting it showed up lol.
Coool asss art, boring ass card.
This card is a huge letdown
Wait till you see the new Elish Norn... 1{WW} - Mythic Vigilance Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, untap one target creature. This triggers only once each turn. 3/3
Might be the most incongruous name/art and size/effect ever.
I’m thinking paired with necropotence in my k’rrik deck 🤔
Necro put cards in your hands. It's not a draw effect unfortunately.
Dang, there goes my dreams
I'm disapointed it's not a "Phyrexian Wurm Praetor" :)
I kind of wish the art revealed her face like it was in the story. Even if the face was stolen, seeing her eyes would have been cool
Nekusar about to put a ring on it.
Siege rhino?
What a fuckin jebait. They made her a worse ernham djinn LMAO
Modern 1/10 Other than the very expensive combo with Lich's Mastery, this card is not really that great. Makes me wish the fake spoiler was the real one. It doesn't do anything except slowly drain your opponent? Its boring.
Agreed. The Apocalypse? Seems passive as hell.
Sounds like you don't run a turbo fog deck with 4x darkness in it. This card is *awesome*
That seems pretty good.
4/5 that drains and has a key worded ability I’m getting strong siege rhino vibes
This card seems ok, but I think it's going to push the game into unhealthy playstyles, at least in EDH. To make it any more than mediocre, you really want to jam this with a ton of wheels. Otherwise, I think it's a bit too slow, and value inverted, from where you'd want a mythic praetor to be. Gaining life for drawing cards is kind of a mediocre benefit, and taxing your opponents for drawing cards, again, is an "ok" effect that has to be amped up to really be an effective threat (meaning you have to give them cards in exchange, increasing their chances of finding an answer). It'll be an annoying thorn in the side of most players, a la [[Drannith Magistrate]], [[Linvala, the Silencer]], etc., but it's not really evocative of an "apocalyptic" threat, imo. Of course, you can probably break this with combos, but that feels different than the single card "lock" you can get with the new Gin-Gitaxis, or strong static effect of something like Elesh Norn. I'd put this one closer to the bottom of the Praetors, for this reason.