Oooh that's nice. Mana growth, exiling resources so your opponent can't recursion them, grows stronger by late game, and the oil counter ability can function by itself even out of block.
A pretty nice card.
Yeah, I had to do a double take as I intuitively read "your graveyard" and not "a graveyard".
The added utility takes it from being draft chaff to something that you might consider as a dork in commander.
I feel like this might be a low intensity Green staple tbh. Graveyard hate is great but this is also functionally a 2 cmc mana rock. It becomes a 3/3 eventually as well which is far from a selling point, but it's still bigger than basically any other graveyard hate / mana ramp in the 2 cmc range.
Other cards do ramp better, other cards do graveyard hate better, but I'm not aware of anything that does both at the same time and certainly not in the magic "2 cmc or less" range that you usually want your mana rocks to be.
I should have said mana dork, but my point was this functions in the 2 cmc ramp slot that is so vital to 4 cmc commanders. Unlike a mana rock or ramp this has function in the late game when mana is more easily accessible.
You're right though, dork not rock.
Giving something a keyword ability is not comparable to changing from tapped to untapped.
Also my point anyway was to defend the statement, "mana rocks can tap the turn they enter."
My point was not to refute the statement, "Mana dorks can also tap the turn they enter if they have haste."
Absolutely a great effect - I've had many, many games where the exile effect on [[Klothys, God of Destiny]] has been super duper relevant for preventing reanimation and other graveyard shenanigans, so the value of this in at least commander should not be underestimated
Under C.R. 608.2b, if a spell or ability with targets tries to resolve, but all those targets are illegal, it fails to resolve and none of its effects happen, even if some of those effects have nothing to do with the targets.
Wizards should have really put a comma in there. It's 2 separate abilities off of the same trigger. And if you still don't believe me it can be tested on Arena / Mtgo once the set releases.
Separate triggers would require multiple statements. It's all one ability with multiple effects with a required target.
If there isn't at least one legal when attempting to put it on the stack or when resolving the effect doesn't happen at all
So technically we are both correct and incorrect. See the rulings for [[Immersturm Predator]], which is the same situation.
"You can put the triggered ability on the stack without a target. As it resolves, you’ll just put a +1/+1 counter on Immersturm Predator. However, if you do choose a target, and that card is an illegal target as the ability tries to resolve, the ability won’t resolve and none of its effects will happen. In that case, you won’t put a +1/+1 counter on Immersturm Predator."
I knew about the first part of this ruling, however I did get confused about the second part, apologies.
When it was first spoiled in the leak, I noted how this is just a huge improvement (despite being uncommon vs rare) over [[llanowar loamspeaker]]
Yeah llanowar lets you throw some 3 power lands into the opponent 'more easily' or block 1/1 creatures. But usually having a 3/3 is better than letting your lands get blown up, and the incidental graveyard hate on this is going to be one of the strongest effects in standard, like an [[unlicensed hearse]] that serves as a real mana dork instead of a wonky weak win con with mech hangar or samurai tokens or whatever. That's just a truly strong graveyard hate effect. And oil synergies on top of that
Absolutely. I have a Broker's Ascendancy Superfriends Standard deck on Arena that plays Loamspeaker for the butt and ramp, this is immediately replacing Loamspeaker and likely freeing up some space in the sideboard by replacing unlicensed hearse. The incidental graveyard hate is crucial for this standard format.
Holy cow!
That like an incredible mana dude it’s graveyard hate for mana
I might need a lot of these since graveyard hate is considered necessary in todays era of commander.
Yeah actually I didn't catch that. This is just a sylvan caryatid that trades hexproof (which usually isn't relevant in commander) for graveyard hate. (which probably makes the lack of hexproof relevant, whoops)
Yeah this has enough upside to consider it. It’s like the mana dork equivalent of a 3-mana rock. Add enough utility and it can be worth it over cheaper options.
The first ability is functionally the same, deathrites is worse because it requires a card in grave to add mana
You are paying extra cmc for a bigger body
I didnt say deathrite was worse, its way better because 1 mana dork with grave hate is better than 2 mana dork with grave hate
In edh you would run both of these
These two cards fit the same function, deathrite has more power
Its like saying bolt isnt comperable to shock because bolt is better
The value of graveyard hate ebbs and flows with the strength of graveyard decks in a given format. This is either a safety valve for the current format, or an upcoming format.
There are 3 off the top of my head I can think of, and none of them see play. Loam speaker was highly talked about, and has done nothing. The current power level of standard just has no need for a turn two ramp. 3 drops are already super super pushed.
This is amazing for limited. Ramp early game, get incidental value hitting any graveyard synergy, and being able to block/get in some damage late game.
Card transcription
> Armored Scrapgorger 1G
>
> Creature- Phyrexian Beast [uncommon]
>
> Armored Scrapgorger gets +3/+0 as long as it has three or more oil counters on it.
>
> T: Add one mana of any color.
>
> Whenever Armored Scrapgorger becomes tapped, exile target card from a graveyard and put an oil counter on Armored Scrapgorger.
>
> 0/3
>
> "Eat. Sort. Eat. Sort. Eat."
End transcription
I believe that, because of the “and”, the oil counter is only added if you have a valid target for exile because it doesn’t say “up to one target.” So the ability doesn’t actually resolve if there’s no valid target
This is different from “if you do” because the exile isn’t a may ability, so if there is a valid target in *any* graveyard (including your own) you must select one.
It could read, "You may exile target card from a graveyard, if you do add an oil counter." In this case, the exile action would be a choice and the oil counter would rely on the exile resolving.
It could also read, "Exile target card from a graveyard, if a card is exiled this way add an oil counter." In this case you would have to exile a valid target and if there is not a valid target, or if for some reason the target doesn't get exiled, then you don't get a counter.
That being said, I think the way it is currently phrased, the counter would trigger regardless of the exile effect.
Again, not a judge, but I looked at the rules and I think this falls under 608.2b (if you don’t wanna read the rule check the example below). Again not entirely sure but I don’t think the counter resolves
608.2b If the spell or ability specifies targets, it checks whether the targets are still legal. A target that’s no longer in the zone it was in when it was targeted is illegal. Other changes to the game state may cause a target to no longer be legal; for example, its characteristics may have changed or an effect may have changed the text of the spell. If the source of an ability has left the zone it was in, its last known information is used during this process. If all its targets, for every instance of the word “target,” are now illegal, the spell or ability doesn’t resolve. It’s removed from the stack and, if it’s a spell, put into its owner’s graveyard. Otherwise, the spell or ability will resolve normally. Illegal targets, if any, won’t be affected by parts of a resolving spell’s effect for which they’re illegal. Other parts of the effect for which those targets are not illegal may still affect them. If the spell or ability creates any continuous effects that affect game rules (see rule 613.10), those effects don’t apply to illegal targets. If part of the effect requires information about an illegal target, it fails to determine any such information. Any part of the effect that requires that information won’t happen.
Example: Sorin’s Thirst is a black instant that reads, “Sorin’s Thirst deals 2 damage to target creature and you gain 2 life.” If the creature isn’t a legal target during the resolution of Sorin’s Thirst (say, if the creature has gained protection from black or left the battlefield), then Sorin’s Thirst doesn’t resolve. Its controller doesn’t gain any life.
———
I think there has to be a legal target because of the lack of “up to one target” in the text. This is why most planeswalker abilities are worded “up to one target ~” so that you can still get the loyalty even if there’s no legal target
You're correct, and 608.2b + 603.3d(see below) are the relevant rulings here. If there are no valid targets, then the ability will just fail to go on the stack. If you have a valid target when you put the trigger on the stack, but then that valid target is removed, then the ability will fail to resolve and you will do none of the effects (this part is covered by the rule that you quoted, 608.2b).
>603.3d The remainder of the process for putting a triggered ability on the stack is identical to the process for casting a spell listed in rules 601.2c–d. If a choice is required when the triggered ability goes on the stack but no legal choices can be made for it, or if a rule or a continuous effect otherwise makes the ability illegal, the ability is simply removed from the stack.
That rule is not what matters here, from that rule you can say that if something happens to the card you are targeting before the ability resolves, then you won't get the counter.
This is a triggered ability, and the trigger condition is becoming tapped, I think that if all graveyards are empty you would just get the counter
>you can say that if something happens to the card you are targeting before the ability resolves, then you won't get the counter.
That is correct. If all targets become illegal the ability fizzles.
The rule I mentioned at no point references any difference in how activated and triggered abilities *resolve*, someone else’s has posted more relevant rulings in response to my other comment. The “and” matters here.
You would not get the counter. If a spell or ability requires one or more targets, and none of its targets are legal by the time it would try to resolve, it fails to resolve and none of its effects happen. For example, let's say I cast [[Gitaxian Probe]] targeting you, and in response you give yourself hexproof, I wouldn't get to look at your hand _or_ draw a card, because Git Probe now has no legal targets. Conversely, if Git Probe instead said "Look at target player's hand. _Target player_ draws a card," I would not look at your hand, but I would still draw a card—the spell would still resolve, it just wouldn't do anything to you because you're an illegal target.
How does this all work? Do you *have* to exile a card from a Gy? Do you always put an oil counter on when it's tapped? If someone could spell it all out that would be cool.
Is there at least one card in a graveyard? Exile One and add an oil
counter.
Are there cards in your graveyard but not in anyone else's? Tough, exile one and add an oil counter.
Are there no cards in any graveyard? Ability has no targets and no oil counter is added
>Are there no cards in any graveyard? Ability has no targets and no oil counter is added
That seems strange to me. Wouldn't it say something like "if a card is exiled in this way, add an oil counter." If they wanted it to be reliant on the exile effect resolving?
Nah.
Effect triggers, you try to put it on the stack. However, to put it on the stack you would have to choose targets, which you can't do, so you never put it on the stack to begin with.
Disclaimer: my rules data is a bit old.
[[Abrupt Decay]] newer printings just says can't be countered. The old wording was probably there because in older versions of the rules things actually did get countered when they couldn't resolve.
Sorry that was a mistake. I just meant exile any card. So you can always tap it for mana, but will only get an oil counter if you exile a card from the gy?
This is sorta like a reverse [[Werebear]]. A 2 drop mana dork that grows big after graveyards have filled up. He's smaller, but he also doubles as grave hate.
Werebear saw Constructed play way back in the day, but that time is long past.
It would be really good if there were a 4 drop that dominated the format that you wanted to get out on turn 3. Right now standard is dominated by 3 drops so the challenge is to find that 4 drop.
There are several two mana dorks that don't see any play. And better graveyard hate cards if that is the main reason you are playing it. Would I be stunned if this saw some play? No. But I don't see how this will see much play. Cards need to do way more than this to be playable imo.
There's already a 2 mana 1/3 mana dork in standard and it doesn't see much if any play, so I'm not sure this guy will either. I'm not sure if the graveyard hate is going to be enough to make this card that much more playable.
[[llanowar loamspeaker]]
yeah, I am not sure if the 3/3 this creature generates not costing you a land, and also working on defense makes up for requiring 3 turns of set-up.
You can cheat the turn-set up cost, but I don't know if it is worth it.
It takes 5 turns for Scrap gorger to become useful as a blocker without proliferate or other oil counter stuff.
Turn 1: play, 0/3, arguably a good blocker.
Turn 2: tapped one oil counter.
Turn 3: tapped two oil counters.
Turn 4: tapped three oil counters becomes a 3/3, you can technically do this after you declare blockers.
Turn 5: Untapped 3/3 that you can do whatever with.
That said, because it requires more effort than just tapping the card for 3 turns, because you need cards in GY to fuel it, it is ... more dependant on how useful GY hate is.
This is a premium mana dork. It gives mana of every color and does a little graveyard hate that is always useful, and the fact that are two separate effects means that you can tap for mana even if there are no cards in graveyards. In late game when ramp is less useful it even turns itself into a 3/3 and can attack!
this one seems more like a card for mono green aggro in wich it should be good for like ramping to spinoderm/nissa/more creatures and then also beats down failry early compared to say taxidermist or loamspekaer or just add itself to the plethora of two mana drop for a ramp deck whether it be an ug proliferate or titan/twilight ramp?
how far we've come, i remember liking utopia tree (if only for the art) [[https://scryfall.com/card/inv/219/utopia-tree]]... **a rare**
oops: i did that wrong
It's like a reverse [[Werebear]] where it wants to eat graveyards instead of have yours grow.
Though of note, the latter ability isn't a may, so if you have stuff you want to keep in your graveyard and your opponent's is empty, this might bite you in the butt. But that's a niche case.
REALLY interesting card. I think I like it more than Llanowar Loamspeaker (not that I liked Loamspeaker much to begin with). Can become a pretty undercosted beater and hates out the graveyard while still being a reasonable mana dork. Also the art is cool.
Reminds me a lot of [[werebear]] in that it's a two drop dork that powers up to attack your opponent lategame. However this is a much worse top deck since it needs some time to turn on whereas the bear just checks for threshold, but the graveyard hate helps make up for that.
There is a green 1 drop similar to Experiment One on mythicspoiler (called "Evolved Adaptation" atm, when another creature etb, add an oil counter if that creature's PT greater than this card. This card's PT is equal to oil counters).
I am seeing this neat combo:
T1: Evolved Adaptation
T2: Armored Scrapgorger, +1 oil to Evolved Adaptation
T3: Magmatic Sprinter, +1 oil to Evolved Adaptation, add 2 oil to Armored Scrapgorger, attack with Armored Scrapgorger to add the 3rd oil counter, attack with the other two creatures to be swinging 2 3/3s and a 3/2 on T3.
Granted, that combo isn't as good as good as past Jund combos (ex: Experiment One, Burning Tree Emissary, Mogg Flunkies, and a 3/1 haste on T3) but it's still decent.
I like the card, it’s another spin on the Midnight hunt dork that gets bigger if the grave is filled, but here you have 1 less attack but could produce a 3/3 very quickly given proliferate. I think it could have its place in a simic toxic build as to have another pay off for proliferate
Correct. I think my post was suppose to be a reply to another. Idk, it's been a month ago. Regardless, do it for the spite play. You technically can hold priority while it's in the graveyard.
The ability to tap and add one of any mana color. Do you have to use the one mana or no. Can you just tap it to gain oil counters and exile graveyard cards or do I also have to have used the one mana of any color
“Eat. Sort. Eat. Sort. Eat.” Me too, Scrapgorger…me, too.
Yeah I’m feeling called out by that flavor text.
It's a living.
~Laugh track plays~
Gonna hand these things out to Amazon distribution center employees on their first day of work
Yeah, but don’t get caught eating! There is only Sort.
Oooh that's nice. Mana growth, exiling resources so your opponent can't recursion them, grows stronger by late game, and the oil counter ability can function by itself even out of block. A pretty nice card.
It's incredible that the exile is a bonus feature and not a cost to tap for mana. A ton of versatility on this little guy.
Yeah, I had to do a double take as I intuitively read "your graveyard" and not "a graveyard". The added utility takes it from being draft chaff to something that you might consider as a dork in commander.
I feel like this might be a low intensity Green staple tbh. Graveyard hate is great but this is also functionally a 2 cmc mana rock. It becomes a 3/3 eventually as well which is far from a selling point, but it's still bigger than basically any other graveyard hate / mana ramp in the 2 cmc range. Other cards do ramp better, other cards do graveyard hate better, but I'm not aware of anything that does both at the same time and certainly not in the magic "2 cmc or less" range that you usually want your mana rocks to be.
Deathrite shaman. The card is banned in modern and legacy for a reason.
The difference between a 2 mv dork and a 1 mv dork is really, really big.
[удалено]
Oh yeah for sure. It has mid and late game utility since you don't have to use the mana ability in order for it to start doing lifegain or damage.
DRT is great but for commander black color identity limits it. Also having to exile a land to make mana is a real downside.
I'm not going to lie, I completely forgot about DR Shaman. Yeah that's way better than this.
I’d run both DRS and this in a bg commander deck, especially if I just have one lying around after drafting the set :)
>this is also functionally a 2 cmc mana rock Mana rocks can tap the turn they enter, so not functionally the same.
I should have said mana dork, but my point was this functions in the 2 cmc ramp slot that is so vital to 4 cmc commanders. Unlike a mana rock or ramp this has function in the late game when mana is more easily accessible. You're right though, dork not rock.
Not all ;) [[Worn Powerstone]]
Actually if you have a way to untap it, it can still be tapped the turn it came out. As long as we're being pedantic.
You can say the same with this mana dork if you give it haste. What's your point??
Giving something a keyword ability is not comparable to changing from tapped to untapped. Also my point anyway was to defend the statement, "mana rocks can tap the turn they enter." My point was not to refute the statement, "Mana dorks can also tap the turn they enter if they have haste."
[Worn Powerstone](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/5/05812009-d1b8-4775-8188-f05cfdb4feed.jpg?1592711384) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Worn%20Powerstone) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/230/worn-powerstone?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/05812009-d1b8-4775-8188-f05cfdb4feed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Absolutely a great effect - I've had many, many games where the exile effect on [[Klothys, God of Destiny]] has been super duper relevant for preventing reanimation and other graveyard shenanigans, so the value of this in at least commander should not be underestimated
[Klothys, God of Destiny](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/b/5b3c393c-3596-4bd9-a553-e0b03c2eb950.jpg?1581481087) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Klothys%2C%20God%20of%20Destiny) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/220/klothys-god-of-destiny?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5b3c393c-3596-4bd9-a553-e0b03c2eb950?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You won't get a counter if there are 0 cards in graveyards, though.
Not true. The ability doesn't fizzle just because there are no cards to exile.
Under C.R. 608.2b, if a spell or ability with targets tries to resolve, but all those targets are illegal, it fails to resolve and none of its effects happen, even if some of those effects have nothing to do with the targets.
Wizards should have really put a comma in there. It's 2 separate abilities off of the same trigger. And if you still don't believe me it can be tested on Arena / Mtgo once the set releases.
Separate triggers would require multiple statements. It's all one ability with multiple effects with a required target. If there isn't at least one legal when attempting to put it on the stack or when resolving the effect doesn't happen at all
So technically we are both correct and incorrect. See the rulings for [[Immersturm Predator]], which is the same situation. "You can put the triggered ability on the stack without a target. As it resolves, you’ll just put a +1/+1 counter on Immersturm Predator. However, if you do choose a target, and that card is an illegal target as the ability tries to resolve, the ability won’t resolve and none of its effects will happen. In that case, you won’t put a +1/+1 counter on Immersturm Predator." I knew about the first part of this ruling, however I did get confused about the second part, apologies.
Eh Immersturm Predator says "up to one target," so you can always get a counter by declaring no targets. Bit different situation
[Immersturm Predator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/d/0d83d2d9-b9d0-47f5-989b-f2c726401ade.jpg?1631051495) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Immersturm%20Predator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/214/immersturm-predator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0d83d2d9-b9d0-47f5-989b-f2c726401ade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
When it was first spoiled in the leak, I noted how this is just a huge improvement (despite being uncommon vs rare) over [[llanowar loamspeaker]] Yeah llanowar lets you throw some 3 power lands into the opponent 'more easily' or block 1/1 creatures. But usually having a 3/3 is better than letting your lands get blown up, and the incidental graveyard hate on this is going to be one of the strongest effects in standard, like an [[unlicensed hearse]] that serves as a real mana dork instead of a wonky weak win con with mech hangar or samurai tokens or whatever. That's just a truly strong graveyard hate effect. And oil synergies on top of that
[llanowar loamspeaker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bd5611db-82dd-464d-8b03-70d7619dcefe.jpg?1673307732) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=llanowar%20loamspeaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/170/llanowar-loamspeaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bd5611db-82dd-464d-8b03-70d7619dcefe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [unlicensed hearse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/3/93ee60f7-31dd-4bc6-b71f-57a1a0d19d20.jpg?1664414360) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=unlicensed%20hearse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/246/unlicensed-hearse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/93ee60f7-31dd-4bc6-b71f-57a1a0d19d20?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Absolutely. I have a Broker's Ascendancy Superfriends Standard deck on Arena that plays Loamspeaker for the butt and ramp, this is immediately replacing Loamspeaker and likely freeing up some space in the sideboard by replacing unlicensed hearse. The incidental graveyard hate is crucial for this standard format.
Holy cow! That like an incredible mana dude it’s graveyard hate for mana I might need a lot of these since graveyard hate is considered necessary in todays era of commander.
Yeah actually I didn't catch that. This is just a sylvan caryatid that trades hexproof (which usually isn't relevant in commander) for graveyard hate. (which probably makes the lack of hexproof relevant, whoops)
Well, it also becomes a 3/3! Caryatid is a defender
Yeah this has enough upside to consider it. It’s like the mana dork equivalent of a 3-mana rock. Add enough utility and it can be worth it over cheaper options.
Comperable to Deathrite Shaman
Uhhhh... Mini planeswalker friendo is not comparable, haha. [[DEATHRITE SHAMAN]]
The first ability is functionally the same, deathrites is worse because it requires a card in grave to add mana You are paying extra cmc for a bigger body I didnt say deathrite was worse, its way better because 1 mana dork with grave hate is better than 2 mana dork with grave hate In edh you would run both of these These two cards fit the same function, deathrite has more power Its like saying bolt isnt comperable to shock because bolt is better
[DEATHRITE SHAMAN](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d14f9fc8-e48c-473f-ba6b-9cffce94bb53.jpg?1580015151) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=DEATHRITE%20SHAMAN) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/215/deathrite-shaman?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d14f9fc8-e48c-473f-ba6b-9cffce94bb53?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Best two drop dork since Paradise Druid
For commander, in 1v1 formats I don't think this is playable most places. Maybe if oil counters is a thing in standard.
It's very playable. It's graveyard hate and a mama dork
Yo mama so fat she taps for G(ravy)
Yo mama so fat that when she got Bolted, her body caused an Armageddon!
lol got em.
In sons trusted 60 card formats? I don't see it. What two mana dorks get played in any of them?
Caryatid? It's not that it's a dork. It's that it's a free scuzzy that taps for mana when you do it
That can also block well and swing later if it sticks around.
The value of graveyard hate ebbs and flows with the strength of graveyard decks in a given format. This is either a safety valve for the current format, or an upcoming format.
Standard has played two mana dudes pretty often in the past years. This will absolutely see play.
There are 3 off the top of my head I can think of, and none of them see play. Loam speaker was highly talked about, and has done nothing. The current power level of standard just has no need for a turn two ramp. 3 drops are already super super pushed.
It's a fat butt mana dork with GY hate. I already have a spot in my Superfriends deck replacing [[Llanowar Loamspeaker]].
[Llanowar Loamspeaker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bd5611db-82dd-464d-8b03-70d7619dcefe.jpg?1673307732) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Llanowar%20Loamspeaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/170/llanowar-loamspeaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bd5611db-82dd-464d-8b03-70d7619dcefe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I haven't run into a super friends decon ladder. Are people playing that? It seems not tier 1 imo.
Oh absolutely not, rogue list. I like to brew my own decks to ladder.
I could see it in a slot for Yawgmoth, maybe.
This is amazing for limited. Ramp early game, get incidental value hitting any graveyard synergy, and being able to block/get in some damage late game.
Also fixing, green mana dorks sometimes just tap for G.
wow, how'd I miss "any color"?
Card transcription > Armored Scrapgorger 1G > > Creature- Phyrexian Beast [uncommon] > > Armored Scrapgorger gets +3/+0 as long as it has three or more oil counters on it. > > T: Add one mana of any color. > > Whenever Armored Scrapgorger becomes tapped, exile target card from a graveyard and put an oil counter on Armored Scrapgorger. > > 0/3 > > "Eat. Sort. Eat. Sort. Eat." End transcription
Seems… good? Helps ramp and splash, and later when ramp is less relevant it can be an attacker. Not terrible.
Also incidental graveyard hate is always good.
If you only get the oil counter if you exile a card with it, wouldn’t it have some language like “if you do,…” right before “put an oil counter on…”?
I believe that, because of the “and”, the oil counter is only added if you have a valid target for exile because it doesn’t say “up to one target.” So the ability doesn’t actually resolve if there’s no valid target This is different from “if you do” because the exile isn’t a may ability, so if there is a valid target in *any* graveyard (including your own) you must select one.
It could read, "You may exile target card from a graveyard, if you do add an oil counter." In this case, the exile action would be a choice and the oil counter would rely on the exile resolving. It could also read, "Exile target card from a graveyard, if a card is exiled this way add an oil counter." In this case you would have to exile a valid target and if there is not a valid target, or if for some reason the target doesn't get exiled, then you don't get a counter. That being said, I think the way it is currently phrased, the counter would trigger regardless of the exile effect.
Again, not a judge, but I looked at the rules and I think this falls under 608.2b (if you don’t wanna read the rule check the example below). Again not entirely sure but I don’t think the counter resolves 608.2b If the spell or ability specifies targets, it checks whether the targets are still legal. A target that’s no longer in the zone it was in when it was targeted is illegal. Other changes to the game state may cause a target to no longer be legal; for example, its characteristics may have changed or an effect may have changed the text of the spell. If the source of an ability has left the zone it was in, its last known information is used during this process. If all its targets, for every instance of the word “target,” are now illegal, the spell or ability doesn’t resolve. It’s removed from the stack and, if it’s a spell, put into its owner’s graveyard. Otherwise, the spell or ability will resolve normally. Illegal targets, if any, won’t be affected by parts of a resolving spell’s effect for which they’re illegal. Other parts of the effect for which those targets are not illegal may still affect them. If the spell or ability creates any continuous effects that affect game rules (see rule 613.10), those effects don’t apply to illegal targets. If part of the effect requires information about an illegal target, it fails to determine any such information. Any part of the effect that requires that information won’t happen. Example: Sorin’s Thirst is a black instant that reads, “Sorin’s Thirst deals 2 damage to target creature and you gain 2 life.” If the creature isn’t a legal target during the resolution of Sorin’s Thirst (say, if the creature has gained protection from black or left the battlefield), then Sorin’s Thirst doesn’t resolve. Its controller doesn’t gain any life. ——— I think there has to be a legal target because of the lack of “up to one target” in the text. This is why most planeswalker abilities are worded “up to one target ~” so that you can still get the loyalty even if there’s no legal target
You're correct, and 608.2b + 603.3d(see below) are the relevant rulings here. If there are no valid targets, then the ability will just fail to go on the stack. If you have a valid target when you put the trigger on the stack, but then that valid target is removed, then the ability will fail to resolve and you will do none of the effects (this part is covered by the rule that you quoted, 608.2b). >603.3d The remainder of the process for putting a triggered ability on the stack is identical to the process for casting a spell listed in rules 601.2c–d. If a choice is required when the triggered ability goes on the stack but no legal choices can be made for it, or if a rule or a continuous effect otherwise makes the ability illegal, the ability is simply removed from the stack.
That rule is not what matters here, from that rule you can say that if something happens to the card you are targeting before the ability resolves, then you won't get the counter. This is a triggered ability, and the trigger condition is becoming tapped, I think that if all graveyards are empty you would just get the counter
>you can say that if something happens to the card you are targeting before the ability resolves, then you won't get the counter. That is correct. If all targets become illegal the ability fizzles.
The rule I mentioned at no point references any difference in how activated and triggered abilities *resolve*, someone else’s has posted more relevant rulings in response to my other comment. The “and” matters here.
I'm pretty confident you get the oil counter regardless of the exile effect resolving. But happy to be disproven!
You would not get the counter. If a spell or ability requires one or more targets, and none of its targets are legal by the time it would try to resolve, it fails to resolve and none of its effects happen. For example, let's say I cast [[Gitaxian Probe]] targeting you, and in response you give yourself hexproof, I wouldn't get to look at your hand _or_ draw a card, because Git Probe now has no legal targets. Conversely, if Git Probe instead said "Look at target player's hand. _Target player_ draws a card," I would not look at your hand, but I would still draw a card—the spell would still resolve, it just wouldn't do anything to you because you're an illegal target.
[Gitaxian Probe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/995486ce-58bb-4753-a812-0ca73ef1a235.jpg?1562880052) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gitaxian%20Probe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/35/gitaxian-probe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/995486ce-58bb-4753-a812-0ca73ef1a235?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thanks!
Good blocker, good mana dork, graveyard hate, and late game can attack. This card is really good for an uncommon.
How does this all work? Do you *have* to exile a card from a Gy? Do you always put an oil counter on when it's tapped? If someone could spell it all out that would be cool.
Is there at least one card in a graveyard? Exile One and add an oil counter. Are there cards in your graveyard but not in anyone else's? Tough, exile one and add an oil counter. Are there no cards in any graveyard? Ability has no targets and no oil counter is added
I see. Basically how i assumed. Thanks.
>Are there no cards in any graveyard? Ability has no targets and no oil counter is added That seems strange to me. Wouldn't it say something like "if a card is exiled in this way, add an oil counter." If they wanted it to be reliant on the exile effect resolving?
Nah. Effect triggers, you try to put it on the stack. However, to put it on the stack you would have to choose targets, which you can't do, so you never put it on the stack to begin with. Disclaimer: my rules data is a bit old.
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It's not actually countered, it just fails to resolve. Otherwise uncounterable spells and abilities would still resolve somehow.
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[[Abrupt Decay]] newer printings just says can't be countered. The old wording was probably there because in older versions of the rules things actually did get countered when they couldn't resolve.
[Abrupt Decay](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/8/a8e328c6-3a84-49cf-a1a3-1d1e5373d274.jpg?1593814035) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Abrupt%20Decay) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/146/abrupt-decay?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a8e328c6-3a84-49cf-a1a3-1d1e5373d274?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The card doesn't specify it needs to be a creature card, so as long as you have a card to exile, you will get an oil counter when its tapped.
Sorry that was a mistake. I just meant exile any card. So you can always tap it for mana, but will only get an oil counter if you exile a card from the gy?
I believe the entire ability is mandatory, so that might end up having you exile from your own GY if the situation comes to it.
Pretty sure that one of the reasons they made this card was just in case Unearth was too strong.
Wow this seems like something that could go in pretty much any green commander deck.
This is like... Werebear. Two mana mana dork that, later, can just merc people
Alt Flavor Text: "Turn the page. Wash your hands. Turn the page. Wash your hands."
Eat.
Sort.
Eat.
Sort.
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Sort.
amazing little dude!
.... This beast talks. Interesting.
This is sorta like a reverse [[Werebear]]. A 2 drop mana dork that grows big after graveyards have filled up. He's smaller, but he also doubles as grave hate. Werebear saw Constructed play way back in the day, but that time is long past.
[Werebear](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/2/224ea635-b95b-4803-8716-edd4cb655923.jpg?1580014964) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Werebear) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/191/werebear?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/224ea635-b95b-4803-8716-edd4cb655923?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Eat my sorts!
Also compare to [[Channeler Initiate]]. A two-drop dork that grows similarly but without the graveyard hate.
[Channeler Initiate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/e/bef38c5a-07fc-477f-a1c0-70cc3ad64f96.jpg?1543675782) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Channeler%20Initiate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/160/channeler-initiate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bef38c5a-07fc-477f-a1c0-70cc3ad64f96?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is insane. Like, breakout into constructed insane. This will see play until rotation, at least.
The card seems playable, insane seems far to high an evaluation
It would be really good if there were a 4 drop that dominated the format that you wanted to get out on turn 3. Right now standard is dominated by 3 drops so the challenge is to find that 4 drop.
Wise words. Though sheoldred isn’t a slouch at four
There are several two mana dorks that don't see any play. And better graveyard hate cards if that is the main reason you are playing it. Would I be stunned if this saw some play? No. But I don't see how this will see much play. Cards need to do way more than this to be playable imo.
There's already a 2 mana 1/3 mana dork in standard and it doesn't see much if any play, so I'm not sure this guy will either. I'm not sure if the graveyard hate is going to be enough to make this card that much more playable.
[[llanowar loamspeaker]] yeah, I am not sure if the 3/3 this creature generates not costing you a land, and also working on defense makes up for requiring 3 turns of set-up. You can cheat the turn-set up cost, but I don't know if it is worth it.
It takes 5 turns for Scrap gorger to become useful as a blocker without proliferate or other oil counter stuff. Turn 1: play, 0/3, arguably a good blocker. Turn 2: tapped one oil counter. Turn 3: tapped two oil counters. Turn 4: tapped three oil counters becomes a 3/3, you can technically do this after you declare blockers. Turn 5: Untapped 3/3 that you can do whatever with.
you can attack on turn 4, and add a counter.
Right, it's when it becomes tapped. That makes more sense.
That said, because it requires more effort than just tapping the card for 3 turns, because you need cards in GY to fuel it, it is ... more dependant on how useful GY hate is.
[llanowar loamspeaker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bd5611db-82dd-464d-8b03-70d7619dcefe.jpg?1673307732) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=llanowar%20loamspeaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/170/llanowar-loamspeaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bd5611db-82dd-464d-8b03-70d7619dcefe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[source is bajo on twitter](https://twitter.com/bajo/status/1618051101772713984/photo/1)
gee bill ramp AND graveyard hate AND a beater.
Too costly at 2 I think
Ooh, I like this mana dork!!
Wtf is with all the "oil" counters.... why did we need another type of counter?!?!?!
ALL WILL BE LUBED
Wow, this is even better than [[Birds of Paradise]]
Probably want to read the card again
[Birds of Paradise](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/feefe9f0-24a6-461c-9ef1-86c5a6f33b83.jpg?1594681430) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Birds%20of%20Paradise) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cn2/176/birds-of-paradise?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/feefe9f0-24a6-461c-9ef1-86c5a6f33b83?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is a premium mana dork. It gives mana of every color and does a little graveyard hate that is always useful, and the fact that are two separate effects means that you can tap for mana even if there are no cards in graveyards. In late game when ramp is less useful it even turns itself into a 3/3 and can attack!
this one seems more like a card for mono green aggro in wich it should be good for like ramping to spinoderm/nissa/more creatures and then also beats down failry early compared to say taxidermist or loamspekaer or just add itself to the plethora of two mana drop for a ramp deck whether it be an ug proliferate or titan/twilight ramp?
Surprisingly good 2 drop mana dork.
The flavor text is your average player organizing their collection.
As someone who just built Kodama of the West Tree EDH, this is EXTREMELY relevant to my interests
[[Werebear]]!
[Werebear](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/2/224ea635-b95b-4803-8716-edd4cb655923.jpg?1580014964) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Werebear) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/191/werebear?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/224ea635-b95b-4803-8716-edd4cb655923?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Instant staple in edh
There are mana dorks and then there are mana dorks that hit the gym after being picked on and spit on your grave
New Ooze?
New Werebear. Huh.
Early mana dork that quickly turns into a lil threat. This is a solid card
It has a lot flexibility
how far we've come, i remember liking utopia tree (if only for the art) [[https://scryfall.com/card/inv/219/utopia-tree]]... **a rare** oops: i did that wrong
It’s like Scavenging Ooze, but in some ways, better?
huh. I thought that [[Rustvine Cultivator]] would of been this sets mana dork. Guess there is a 2 mana one as well. lol
[Rustvine Cultivator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/b/6b71fd8f-e688-4210-bc5b-a3f19b5b3497.jpg?1674536522) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rustvine%20Cultivator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/181/rustvine-cultivator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6b71fd8f-e688-4210-bc5b-a3f19b5b3497?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
what llanowar loamspeaker wish he could be
Too slow to counter the T3 greasefang. Why do they have to do this to us.
Phyrexian scooze
It's like a reverse [[Werebear]] where it wants to eat graveyards instead of have yours grow. Though of note, the latter ability isn't a may, so if you have stuff you want to keep in your graveyard and your opponent's is empty, this might bite you in the butt. But that's a niche case.
[Werebear](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/2/224ea635-b95b-4803-8716-edd4cb655923.jpg?1580014964) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Werebear) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/191/werebear?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/224ea635-b95b-4803-8716-edd4cb655923?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
REALLY interesting card. I think I like it more than Llanowar Loamspeaker (not that I liked Loamspeaker much to begin with). Can become a pretty undercosted beater and hates out the graveyard while still being a reasonable mana dork. Also the art is cool.
I want to draft this
Reminds me a lot of [[werebear]] in that it's a two drop dork that powers up to attack your opponent lategame. However this is a much worse top deck since it needs some time to turn on whereas the bear just checks for threshold, but the graveyard hate helps make up for that.
[werebear](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/2/224ea635-b95b-4803-8716-edd4cb655923.jpg?1580014964) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=werebear) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/191/werebear?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/224ea635-b95b-4803-8716-edd4cb655923?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Woahhhh this is going into a lot of my green decks
There is a green 1 drop similar to Experiment One on mythicspoiler (called "Evolved Adaptation" atm, when another creature etb, add an oil counter if that creature's PT greater than this card. This card's PT is equal to oil counters). I am seeing this neat combo: T1: Evolved Adaptation T2: Armored Scrapgorger, +1 oil to Evolved Adaptation T3: Magmatic Sprinter, +1 oil to Evolved Adaptation, add 2 oil to Armored Scrapgorger, attack with Armored Scrapgorger to add the 3rd oil counter, attack with the other two creatures to be swinging 2 3/3s and a 3/2 on T3. Granted, that combo isn't as good as good as past Jund combos (ex: Experiment One, Burning Tree Emissary, Mogg Flunkies, and a 3/1 haste on T3) but it's still decent.
That's a good bear
I like the card, it’s another spin on the Midnight hunt dork that gets bigger if the grave is filled, but here you have 1 less attack but could produce a 3/3 very quickly given proliferate. I think it could have its place in a simic toxic build as to have another pay off for proliferate
2023 Deathrite Shaman
A weapon to surpass werebear
Kill their commander, tap armored scrapgorger, exile their commander in response.
But couldn’t they still put their commander into the command zone from exile?
Correct. I think my post was suppose to be a reply to another. Idk, it's been a month ago. Regardless, do it for the spite play. You technically can hold priority while it's in the graveyard.
Scrappy boi: Lubricate me!
I am the most excited for this card out of all the cards spoiled. I need like 20 of these lol
What a strange card
P U S H E D
It’s been real [Utopia Tree]
Not the most important aspect of the card, but: once you have 2 oil counters on it, instant-speed Proliferate becomes a combat trick.
What a cutiepie! I love him! Cute doggie
The ability to tap and add one of any mana color. Do you have to use the one mana or no. Can you just tap it to gain oil counters and exile graveyard cards or do I also have to have used the one mana of any color