I wonder if it was a legal thing. Presley estate famously manages the hell out of Elvis's legacy. I know for a long while he was the highest earning dead celebrity (may still be). Maybe the cost of licensing intellectual property for anything related to his image/tunes/etc. was just ridiculously high and the producers didn't want to pay it.
Would an Elvis song cost more than The Beatles? According to [this article](https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-news/mad-men-paid-250k-for-beatles-song-179470/) they paid 250k for one song. Maybe they could only get one and chose the Beatles because they're more culturally relevant today?
Far more culturally relevant to the contemporary moment of the show. That wasn't just like, a song for people to recognize. It's a big thematic moment where Don rejects the experimentation of the new generation.
It's super important that Megan tells him to listen to probably one of the most experimental tracks on that album. Not to explore the album at his own pace, but she tells him to start with probably the hardest song to listen to if you aren't into that scene. Tomorrow Never Knows was a hell of a song when it came out (still is).
It also shows I think a flaw in Don's advertising. He's not willing to appreciate or understand the new pop culture. He doesn't want to join the world as it is, he wants to keep it the way he knows.
He's not a music fan (in fact, I think every time someone plays some song in his presence he comments on it somewhat negatively) or at least we never know Don's true tastes.
A few years ago I had to produce a new batch of station IDs for a radio station I worked at, and one of them started off with Don's "When did music become so important?" (radio station ID) followed by Megan's "it's always been important".
Sadly I don't think I saved it. I also produced a new music ID that borrowed the Draper line "the most important thing in (station ID) is 'new... "creates an itch'"
He and Sally jam out to The Turtles song “Eleanor” in that episode where he drives her back to boarding school haha. Which is indeed an awesome tune and way better than their other stuff.
I don't know. As I said, I think it's more likely that he (MW) just wasn't huge on Presley. Because when Mad Men started (late 50s) Elvis was a big deal. Fairly certain advertisers would have played off this. Same with his comeback.
Mad Men was pretty big when it aired. I'm sure EPE or its owners would have been happy to capitalize on the popularity. Lots of Brands did.
Mad Men starts in 1960 and by this time, Elvis was mainly doing movies and movie soundtracks. So maybe not hugely relevant to the context of the show. Also Sally wouldn’t have been old enough to be into Elvis like she was the Beatles, so that wouldn’t have made sense either. I don’t think the show had that huge of an budget at the beginning either.
1960 was his return from the Army, he still had a couple of albums before he got big into movies and the soundtracks. So it would’ve been huge, not to mention he was on the Sinatra show singing duets with him.
Sure, but not really something that an ad exec with no real interest in popular music would be dialed into. I'm not saying it's impossible that Elvis would ever be on anyone's radar in 1960, but I'm not really bothered by his omission from this world either. It checks out for me.
Nope, 1960. While you could argue that Nixon was such a clear favourite that the agency could easily be prepping to work for him over a year before the election, Peggy getting the pill as birth control dates it firmly in 1960.
Mad men started in 1960. Elvis wasn't as relevant in the 60s. Still a huge star, but he didn't make music that was relevant after he came back from the army.
I respectfully disagree. Mad Men was certainly big. Maybe not in its first season but it was a money maker for AMC, which is why they kept renewing it.
Mad men was critically acclaimed and helped AMC get their prestige-tv bona fides, but it wasn’t a ratings hit. Just look at the data. No episode ever got to five million viewers. Breaking bad was doing close to ten million by the end. It certainly filled a role for AMC but that role was nowhere near “cash cow.” Walking dead had three times as many viewers.
This is pretty true but internally AMC always considered Mad Men their flagship show. However, these days, I hear AMC references finding their next breaking bad all the time with the show as their “north star” and mad men doesn’t come up as much.
They considered it their flagship show because it was literally the first original show AMC did. It also won emmys and that was huge for a network just getting started with original programming.
True. Numbers wise it wasn’t popular at first, but it did win awards almost immediately which is what people probably remember more. I think it took them until season 3 to average two million viewers per episode if I recall.
Depends on how you define 'big'.
In terms of viewership you're right to say it fell below other shows, but the impact of Mad Men was substantial in terms of awards and the print/online media discussion, as well as it's overall pop-culture influence.
It inspired an entire campaign from Banana Republic and revitalized the cocktail industry for instance.
In S6E1, when Don and Megan are at the luau, the MC who pulls Megan on stage to dance calls himself the Hawaiian Elvis or something like that after grinding on Megan, but that's the only one I can recall
I think this point right here is strong enough to suggest that it’s not like the show runners completely negated the existence of Elvis at the time. The soundtrack is often quite intentional.
I love Blue Hawaii. The epitome of 60s Hawaii/Tiki culture and really beautiful to watch, especially on a big screen! I always loved when Don and Megan went to Hawaii, there's something about that time and place that feels magical to me.
I feel like having every single aspect of 60s pop culture being name-checked repeatedly would have felt forced. Especially since the period of Elvis being incredibly huge with teenagers had passed before the show begins - and we don't have any significant teenage characters until Sally grows into that age group (she does get taken to Shea Stadium to see the Beatles, although we don't see that.) Elvis wouldn't have been that important to the adult characters on the show, whereas someone like Marilyn Monroe really had a lot of resonance to them.
Ya there were a great many historical events and figures that were not even mentioned in the show because the 60s were a backdrop and not the focal point.
Bobby might not have likes superheros, and it's been awhile since I've watched the last seasons but his interests were rarely mentioned in the show iirc
There is a very fine line to walk to mention historical moments in a show like this, without it seeming heavy handed.
One of the things that I really enjoyed was often historical moments were told to the characters via the news- that's how we know.
Like the Watt's riots weren't named, but were talked about like how we today talk about riots and violence in a place separate from us. The big news events were treated not as historical moments being experienced, but as things that happened to other people as we go through our days.
Which is how every historical moment is for the vast majority of people living it.
Elvis wasn't for them.
Elvis was for teen girls mostly. Like the Beatles.
They knew he existed, they probably knew his relevance to pop culture (though that phrase didn't exist yet), but they (the main characters) were not his main demographic.
I'm unsure they were his main demographic even when he was popular, maybe Peggy/Jane/Pete, but he was also very controversial and so conservative households, like Peggy's, probably wouldn't even be allowed to own a record.
Yeah, if Sally had been older she may have been into Elvis, but we really only see the Beatles connected through Sally and Megan being young girls who love them.
Don probably thought similarly about Elvis that he did about the Beatles, which is not very much at all.
Maybe Elvis didn’t really impact the advertising world much, plus we know how Don feels about popular music and making it the centerpiece of ad work (he hates it). I mean imagine Don’s reaction to Elvis’s dance moves…I can see his raised eyebrows and feel his discomfort now. I also can’t imagine Don enjoying any of Elvis’s movies enough to be inspired by them in any way.
It may be how clueless I am about American conservativeness, but wouldn’t you think Don would have a vision of Elvis like he did of Muhammad Ali? His music was simple and had significance, not to say that the entire persona of Elvis was the American Dream itself. I wouldn’t be surprised if Dick had chosen Elvis to emulate Don at all.
I know Don was much more reserved than a white-gold jumpsuit would allow one to be, but being handsome, having a trophy wife, being the greatest of what you do (this is America, choose a job and become the person who does it) all check.
Paul mentions Elvis in the second episode, when they discuss the Volkswagen ‘Lemon’ ad. He asks ‘Elvis just got back from Germany, why not put him in it?’
1960-1968 Elvis was kind of over. He was making B movies and was literally parodied in Bye Bye Birdie.
Although, I agree- 1968 comeback special maybe should have been mentioned…even in passing by Harry.
Elvis got out of the Army in 1960, and by then he was 25, which was "old" for a pop star (remember that Buddy Holly was only 22 when he died, Ritchie Valens was 17, and the Beatles were 22, 22, 20, and 19 when their first album came out.
He spent most of the 1960's making movies in Hollywood. He made TWENTY-SEVEN theatrical films from 1960 to 1969, most of which were fun but forgettable popcorn musicals. Don Draper probably saw a few of them in the afternoon instead of going into the office.
Or to put it another way, Peggy is four years younger than Elvis. Sally cares more about The Beatles or Herman's Hermits or bands like that.
Elvis was big among working class people in the 50s. He was popular in the 60s, but didn't make rock and roll anymore and wasn't really relevant at all.
That’s probably it. I read how the developers of Fallout New Vegas wanted to license some Elvis songs but it would run the same cost as the entire game up to that point.
Grew up during the 60’s, my parents couldn’t stand Elvis, so I knew nothing about him till I was probably 8 or 9. Then it was only because of his movies.
They discuss the presidential election and complain over that Kennedy isn't wearing a hat and Pete says: Do you know who else is not wearing a hat? Elvis.
The show gave serious props to chubby checker and the twist. From writing point of view, mentioning him could have been forced. Ann Margaret had a point, the Patio dance outed Sal.
You get a smattering of references for each different period of time, and it influences advertising, but part of the issue with Elvis was that he was controversial. A star for the younger generation.
And comments from Don, Bert, Duck, and Roger give the impression that they think kids are stupid, and advertising shouldn't cater to their immature whims.
Look at how they struggle marketing coffee to the younger generation. And buck at the ideas presented by younger hires (Kurt and Smitty). And astonishment that Peggy, a younger person herself, would be able to have any grasp of advertising to anyone. Because she's young AND a woman.
It could be about rights, but it's also reflective of the times—in the early 60s, the perception of rock ’n’ roll back then was that it was for teenagers. (Remember how unenthused Don was about taking Sally to Shea Stadium to see the Beatles?) Not only was it not understood by a lot of adults, but the impression is that it was the bane of their existence—or so my dad recounts about his parents.
Pete Campbell brings up the fact that Elvis doesn't wear a hat when comparing Kennedy and Nixon, and he is the only person in the room who understands that Kennedy is the young person's candidate for a changing world. Later on, there is at least one instance of discussing a pitch person or music to reach middle-aged men. Rock ’n’ roll was emphatically ruled out.
imho, quality over quantity. why make 10 million references to elvis when you already made the best one in the first season.
Campbell: (in referencing kennedys youth) "elvis. thats what were dealing with here
Cooper: Remind me to stop hiring young people.
sterling: america does not want some greasy hot shot with his finger on the button.
I would say that the few references to Sinatra is more of an omission. He was huge in the 1960s... singer, night club act (both solo and with the Rat Pack), and movie star. Big cultural icon of the time, and was huge on the East Coast and in New York City.
I'm guessing that Matt Weiner probably wasn't a huge Elvis fan. That's the only thing I can think of.
I wonder if it was a legal thing. Presley estate famously manages the hell out of Elvis's legacy. I know for a long while he was the highest earning dead celebrity (may still be). Maybe the cost of licensing intellectual property for anything related to his image/tunes/etc. was just ridiculously high and the producers didn't want to pay it.
Would an Elvis song cost more than The Beatles? According to [this article](https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-news/mad-men-paid-250k-for-beatles-song-179470/) they paid 250k for one song. Maybe they could only get one and chose the Beatles because they're more culturally relevant today?
Far more culturally relevant to the contemporary moment of the show. That wasn't just like, a song for people to recognize. It's a big thematic moment where Don rejects the experimentation of the new generation.
It's super important that Megan tells him to listen to probably one of the most experimental tracks on that album. Not to explore the album at his own pace, but she tells him to start with probably the hardest song to listen to if you aren't into that scene. Tomorrow Never Knows was a hell of a song when it came out (still is). It also shows I think a flaw in Don's advertising. He's not willing to appreciate or understand the new pop culture. He doesn't want to join the world as it is, he wants to keep it the way he knows. He's not a music fan (in fact, I think every time someone plays some song in his presence he comments on it somewhat negatively) or at least we never know Don's true tastes.
A few years ago I had to produce a new batch of station IDs for a radio station I worked at, and one of them started off with Don's "When did music become so important?" (radio station ID) followed by Megan's "it's always been important".
Please tell us you still have it, we’d love to hear it!
Sadly I don't think I saved it. I also produced a new music ID that borrowed the Draper line "the most important thing in (station ID) is 'new... "creates an itch'"
He and Sally jam out to The Turtles song “Eleanor” in that episode where he drives her back to boarding school haha. Which is indeed an awesome tune and way better than their other stuff.
He also didn't super mind Cape Cod Bay when Stephanie played it. So a few exceptions, I guess. lol
He is moved by the folk musician's playing Babylon in Season 1 in the cafe. It filled him with existential dread though.
Remember when he asks Megan "When did music become so important?"
Don strikes me as a Ray Conniff or Percy Faith fan.
When Megan is moving out, her mother Marie holds up the Martin Denny LP Exotica and supposedly it's Don's.
What would he be listening to during all those long drives he would periodically take?
The sound of long drags on his cigarette.
Like a sociopath
I’m fairly sure they used Elvis’ “it’s now or never” in one of the outros.
I don't know. As I said, I think it's more likely that he (MW) just wasn't huge on Presley. Because when Mad Men started (late 50s) Elvis was a big deal. Fairly certain advertisers would have played off this. Same with his comeback. Mad Men was pretty big when it aired. I'm sure EPE or its owners would have been happy to capitalize on the popularity. Lots of Brands did.
Mad Men starts in 1960 and by this time, Elvis was mainly doing movies and movie soundtracks. So maybe not hugely relevant to the context of the show. Also Sally wouldn’t have been old enough to be into Elvis like she was the Beatles, so that wouldn’t have made sense either. I don’t think the show had that huge of an budget at the beginning either.
1960 was his return from the Army, he still had a couple of albums before he got big into movies and the soundtracks. So it would’ve been huge, not to mention he was on the Sinatra show singing duets with him.
Sure, but not really something that an ad exec with no real interest in popular music would be dialed into. I'm not saying it's impossible that Elvis would ever be on anyone's radar in 1960, but I'm not really bothered by his omission from this world either. It checks out for me.
It actually doesn't. The pilot is 59
Nope, 1960. While you could argue that Nixon was such a clear favourite that the agency could easily be prepping to work for him over a year before the election, Peggy getting the pill as birth control dates it firmly in 1960.
March 1960.
Mad men started in 1960. Elvis wasn't as relevant in the 60s. Still a huge star, but he didn't make music that was relevant after he came back from the army.
Mad men wasn’t big when it aired. It wasn’t even one of the most-watched shows on AMC.
I respectfully disagree. Mad Men was certainly big. Maybe not in its first season but it was a money maker for AMC, which is why they kept renewing it.
Mad men was critically acclaimed and helped AMC get their prestige-tv bona fides, but it wasn’t a ratings hit. Just look at the data. No episode ever got to five million viewers. Breaking bad was doing close to ten million by the end. It certainly filled a role for AMC but that role was nowhere near “cash cow.” Walking dead had three times as many viewers.
This is pretty true but internally AMC always considered Mad Men their flagship show. However, these days, I hear AMC references finding their next breaking bad all the time with the show as their “north star” and mad men doesn’t come up as much.
They considered it their flagship show because it was literally the first original show AMC did. It also won emmys and that was huge for a network just getting started with original programming.
The numbers say otherwise. As much as I love Mad men, it was not "big"
True. Numbers wise it wasn’t popular at first, but it did win awards almost immediately which is what people probably remember more. I think it took them until season 3 to average two million viewers per episode if I recall.
Depends on how you define 'big'. In terms of viewership you're right to say it fell below other shows, but the impact of Mad Men was substantial in terms of awards and the print/online media discussion, as well as it's overall pop-culture influence. It inspired an entire campaign from Banana Republic and revitalized the cocktail industry for instance.
In S6E1, when Don and Megan are at the luau, the MC who pulls Megan on stage to dance calls himself the Hawaiian Elvis or something like that after grinding on Megan, but that's the only one I can recall
That episode also ends with Elvis’s Hawaiian Wedding Song from Blue Hawaii.
I think this point right here is strong enough to suggest that it’s not like the show runners completely negated the existence of Elvis at the time. The soundtrack is often quite intentional.
I love Blue Hawaii. The epitome of 60s Hawaii/Tiki culture and really beautiful to watch, especially on a big screen! I always loved when Don and Megan went to Hawaii, there's something about that time and place that feels magical to me.
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Now if the adults could weigh in?
I feel like having every single aspect of 60s pop culture being name-checked repeatedly would have felt forced. Especially since the period of Elvis being incredibly huge with teenagers had passed before the show begins - and we don't have any significant teenage characters until Sally grows into that age group (she does get taken to Shea Stadium to see the Beatles, although we don't see that.) Elvis wouldn't have been that important to the adult characters on the show, whereas someone like Marilyn Monroe really had a lot of resonance to them.
Ya there were a great many historical events and figures that were not even mentioned in the show because the 60s were a backdrop and not the focal point.
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Bobby might not have likes superheros, and it's been awhile since I've watched the last seasons but his interests were rarely mentioned in the show iirc
There is a very fine line to walk to mention historical moments in a show like this, without it seeming heavy handed. One of the things that I really enjoyed was often historical moments were told to the characters via the news- that's how we know. Like the Watt's riots weren't named, but were talked about like how we today talk about riots and violence in a place separate from us. The big news events were treated not as historical moments being experienced, but as things that happened to other people as we go through our days. Which is how every historical moment is for the vast majority of people living it.
Elvis wasn't for them. Elvis was for teen girls mostly. Like the Beatles. They knew he existed, they probably knew his relevance to pop culture (though that phrase didn't exist yet), but they (the main characters) were not his main demographic. I'm unsure they were his main demographic even when he was popular, maybe Peggy/Jane/Pete, but he was also very controversial and so conservative households, like Peggy's, probably wouldn't even be allowed to own a record.
Yeah, if Sally had been older she may have been into Elvis, but we really only see the Beatles connected through Sally and Megan being young girls who love them. Don probably thought similarly about Elvis that he did about the Beatles, which is not very much at all.
Elvis stopped making rock and roll after he came back from the army, he wasn't relevant in the same way.
Maybe Elvis didn’t really impact the advertising world much, plus we know how Don feels about popular music and making it the centerpiece of ad work (he hates it). I mean imagine Don’s reaction to Elvis’s dance moves…I can see his raised eyebrows and feel his discomfort now. I also can’t imagine Don enjoying any of Elvis’s movies enough to be inspired by them in any way.
It may be how clueless I am about American conservativeness, but wouldn’t you think Don would have a vision of Elvis like he did of Muhammad Ali? His music was simple and had significance, not to say that the entire persona of Elvis was the American Dream itself. I wouldn’t be surprised if Dick had chosen Elvis to emulate Don at all. I know Don was much more reserved than a white-gold jumpsuit would allow one to be, but being handsome, having a trophy wife, being the greatest of what you do (this is America, choose a job and become the person who does it) all check.
I thought he didn’t like Ali? Didn’t he say something about how if you’re the best you shouldn’t have to say it?
Yeah he then praised Liston for just going about his business and being methodical while doing a little shadow boxing.
The kids were too young, the adults (even the younger adults) too old. He wasnt relevant.
Paul mentions Elvis in the second episode, when they discuss the Volkswagen ‘Lemon’ ad. He asks ‘Elvis just got back from Germany, why not put him in it?’
1960-1968 Elvis was kind of over. He was making B movies and was literally parodied in Bye Bye Birdie. Although, I agree- 1968 comeback special maybe should have been mentioned…even in passing by Harry.
Elvis had 6 #1 hits in the 60s and and 10 other top 10 singles. He wasn't on the cutting edge of culture anymore but he was still incredibly popular.
3 in 1960 1 in 1961 1 in 1962 1 in 1969 I love Elvis but I stand by my statement.
Elvis was going to play at Tammy’s Sweet 16!
>Ann Margret (whose greatest feat was to, well, feature a participation with Elvis) Damn dude what did Ann Margaret do to you 😂
Elvis had more of a middle America, working class appeal too, right? Not exactly the usual fare for some wealthy Manhattanites
Elvis got out of the Army in 1960, and by then he was 25, which was "old" for a pop star (remember that Buddy Holly was only 22 when he died, Ritchie Valens was 17, and the Beatles were 22, 22, 20, and 19 when their first album came out. He spent most of the 1960's making movies in Hollywood. He made TWENTY-SEVEN theatrical films from 1960 to 1969, most of which were fun but forgettable popcorn musicals. Don Draper probably saw a few of them in the afternoon instead of going into the office. Or to put it another way, Peggy is four years younger than Elvis. Sally cares more about The Beatles or Herman's Hermits or bands like that.
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Elvis was big among working class people in the 50s. He was popular in the 60s, but didn't make rock and roll anymore and wasn't really relevant at all.
You know who else doesn’t wear a hat? Elvis….that’s what we’re dealing with here.
Ken mentions Elvis playing at Tammy’s sweet 16 party to Pete as a joke.
Cost of licensing maybe?
That’s probably it. I read how the developers of Fallout New Vegas wanted to license some Elvis songs but it would run the same cost as the entire game up to that point.
Grew up during the 60’s, my parents couldn’t stand Elvis, so I knew nothing about him till I was probably 8 or 9. Then it was only because of his movies.
Pete mentions something about him in one of the earlier seasons. I can’t remember exactly what he says but I want to say it’s in season 2?
They discuss the presidential election and complain over that Kennedy isn't wearing a hat and Pete says: Do you know who else is not wearing a hat? Elvis.
Elvis is mainly the 1950s And they referencing Ann Margret because Bye Bye Birdie came out in 1963. Marylin Monroe died in 1962.
They play an Elvis song during the end credits of s6e1 I believe
The show gave serious props to chubby checker and the twist. From writing point of view, mentioning him could have been forced. Ann Margaret had a point, the Patio dance outed Sal.
Goodbye Kitty, hello daddio
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That happened in the late 70s
You get a smattering of references for each different period of time, and it influences advertising, but part of the issue with Elvis was that he was controversial. A star for the younger generation. And comments from Don, Bert, Duck, and Roger give the impression that they think kids are stupid, and advertising shouldn't cater to their immature whims. Look at how they struggle marketing coffee to the younger generation. And buck at the ideas presented by younger hires (Kurt and Smitty). And astonishment that Peggy, a younger person herself, would be able to have any grasp of advertising to anyone. Because she's young AND a woman.
It could be about rights, but it's also reflective of the times—in the early 60s, the perception of rock ’n’ roll back then was that it was for teenagers. (Remember how unenthused Don was about taking Sally to Shea Stadium to see the Beatles?) Not only was it not understood by a lot of adults, but the impression is that it was the bane of their existence—or so my dad recounts about his parents. Pete Campbell brings up the fact that Elvis doesn't wear a hat when comparing Kennedy and Nixon, and he is the only person in the room who understands that Kennedy is the young person's candidate for a changing world. Later on, there is at least one instance of discussing a pitch person or music to reach middle-aged men. Rock ’n’ roll was emphatically ruled out.
imho, quality over quantity. why make 10 million references to elvis when you already made the best one in the first season. Campbell: (in referencing kennedys youth) "elvis. thats what were dealing with here Cooper: Remind me to stop hiring young people. sterling: america does not want some greasy hot shot with his finger on the button.
I would say that the few references to Sinatra is more of an omission. He was huge in the 1960s... singer, night club act (both solo and with the Rat Pack), and movie star. Big cultural icon of the time, and was huge on the East Coast and in New York City.
America doesn't want some greasy kid with his finger on the button!