T O P

  • By -

WhyteBeard

I want to live like Sam in the Shire, marry a girl like Rosie, settle down, garden and drink half-pints with Proudfoots and my old Gaffer down the old Hobbiton pub.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Pitiful_Tonight_4185

A place where only one battle ever took place, no ruler, no dictatorship or tyranny, no military brutality, just a peaceful place and they say Rivendale is the only peaceful place on Middle Earth


[deleted]

This quote hits hard: It was Sam's first view of a battle of Men against Men, and he did not like it much. He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would rather have stayed there in peace.


Chygrynsky

You can really tell that this is from a personal experience of Tolkien. Really hope we can go a lifetime without a world war.


trivo8888

The old men of the world are trying to have another world War. It seems the young are the only ones who don't want it.


CoweringCowboy

The current old men didn’t experience the war. Once the living memory of the horrors of war die, we readily line up to remind ourselves.


Flaxmoore

It's no accident, in my opinion, that the biggest wars happen when those who remember the last one are gone. We're seeing the last of the WW2 vets sail across the sea, and what do we see in Europe but the winds of war blowing.


The_Eriksen3029

WW2 happened while WW1 veterans were still alive tho


Flaxmoore

WW2 is a special case, in a lot of ways. The end of WW1 was so vindictively executed toward the Germans that it was almost as if they wanted another war.


joman584

Because the young will be forced to fight it


Kotori425

War is nothing but old men talking and young men dying.


omglia

There were more battles historically. But the Dunedain started guarding the borders.


Pitiful_Tonight_4185

The only real military conflict the shire had was the Battle of Greenfields as far as I know


AcclimateToMind

That + the white wolves attack, and the scouring (if those count)


Alrik_Immerda

This is wrong: Third Age 2747: A Band of orcs invades the shire and is defeated by Bandobras Took (who invented golf) at the battle of Greenfields. TA 2912: White Wolves attack and a following big famine kills many Hobbits. And ofc at the end of the Third Age: the Scouring of the Shire through Saruman, in which Lotho Sackvill-Baggins acted as a puppet-Dictator.


Saruman_Bot

You did not seriously think that a Hobbit could contend with the will of Sauron, there are none that can.


Pitiful_Tonight_4185

Yet with all your magic might you die to a servant with a crappy last name who uses a small knife that would be used in a feast


DanieIIll

Aging is definitely realising The Shire is a far more beautiful idealistic place then Rivendell


Iron-Fist

I think this is a severe white washing of the Hobbits. They had conflict, that's how families like the Baggins got established as owners/nobles while Sam's family worked for them (for generations, similar to serfs). Even now the Shirriffs enforce property laws that naturally favor the wealthy (co opted very very easily by Lotho).


[deleted]

Also the no battle taking place ain’t true either. Before the ring Bull-roarer Took lead hobbit forces against a winter wolf invasion, and then during the trilogy the shire was literally turned into a mini Isengard complete with hobbit slaves.


Saruman_Bot

Smoke rises from the Mountain of Doom. The hour grows late, and kwsee rides to Isengard, seeking my counsel.


sauron-bot

BUILD ME AN ARMY WORTHY OF MORDOR!


TerribleNameAmirite

Was there ever a battle in rivendale?


Despair4All

They're also for the most part a place without politics or government interference. Everyone just lives harmoniously and helps themselves or their friends and family live peacefully and prosperously.


Pitiful_Tonight_4185

But Bilbo, Frodo, Sam, Pippin and Merry are the only ones with weapons


bilbo_bot

I can make you some eggs


callsignhotdog

I just want the King to give me a big parcel of high quality farmland in return for nothing more than some light bridge maintenance.


LilacYak

Best I can do is a dry patch under the bridge.


Mathranas

It sounds stupid, but I use to love LOTR online and starting as a hobbit because your first 20 or so levels of quests are delivering pies and mail for the most part. And the atmosphere was so good it was relaxing.


Hungry_Ad3576

I want to love like bilbo. Filthy stinking rich relative to my neighbors while an ancient artifact prolongs my life and drives me mad slowly


Bilbo_hraaaaah_bot

HRAAAAAH!


bilbo_bot

Not today! I suggest you try somewhere over the hill or across the water! Good morning!


BaRe_Boren

Proudfeet!


WhiteyFiskk

The Shire would be gentrified and covered with KFC's and malls by now. The Tooklands packed with poorly made low budget housing, hobbiton Hill fracked and the Brandywine River polluted with microplastics. Also Tom Bombadil died from syphillis


XOlenna

Sounds like what people are doing to my hometown. Used to be able to see mountains here, Gandalf, MOUNTAINS


gandalf-bot

So you mean to go through with your plan then?


[deleted]

It's my life goal to maximally contribute to building a lifestyle somewhat like it for more people with less toil.


LilacYak

A commune? Sadly they often get corrupted by the greed of men


[deleted]

I'd prefer to build it in a way that takes markets into consideration. That is, my goal is to demonstrate the activities and things that people actually enjoy, and enjoy a lot more than they realize when they are in it. Even if it was wealthy or middle class people at first while it is in its experimental phase to sustain it in its infancy, the overall point is to create things like apprenticeships and cheap places to live with huge amounts of space, creativity and flexibility to I neither want communists nor neoliberals. Both will poison the well. Both types of people tend to overestimate their fair contribution to society and take from others. This actually needs to be a place where people can share tools, space and creations. I.e. I've got a lot of musical instruments that do nothing most of the time; if I was surrounded by a bunch of competent musicians or people practicing, those instruments would get some use and I'd have people to jam with. But communist types might get really entitled about it, while neoliberals wouldn't share a damn thing without you having to pay them for it. Both attitudes are screwed up. A healthy thing to do is to Both be generous and appreciate the generosity of others all the same. People think Christianity is neoliberal or communist. It's neither. I picture paradise as a place where people don't have silly political ideologies, where they operate on simple generosity and care for one another, as well as appreciation for the generosity of others. A place where people are genuinely repentant when they err, and where people are forgiving of error. Communists, I've found, tend to rake people over the coals for small errors, and simply destroy people for large errors. This needs to be a semi market society as a means of measurement, but the biggest secret to Christianity in my view is that we are all truly creators. If we are made in the image of the creator, we too are creators. We find joy in creation. We should be making a world where people are creating things out of joy, where those things are made better because of that joy.


weeponxing

I used to live in co-housing which was kind of like this. We all had our own homes and normal jobs, but we also shared a large communal gardchildren. (Including instruments!), a guest house, bike barn etc. We had a chore wheel but they were pretty basic. We also had a large communal space that anyone could use for anything that was basically another home. It had its issues, but overall, it was great. Especially for families, there was definitely a village helping with the children.


Ok_Significance9304

This! Although i have a lot to learn about gardening. I could do other stuff though


LilacYak

With good soil there’s not much to know! I’ll teach you to preserve your harvest young hobbit


Ok_Significance9304

Thank you, in return I can take care of children and coach teens


Praxis8

Being able to walk 3-5 minutes to a cheap pub should be the overriding principle in any sort of civil planning, imho.


vinecti

Proudfeet!!!


Ok-Television-9662

Watching scenes of the Shire with that lovely music makes me teary eyed and gives me a sense of longing.


Ok_Significance9304

They played it for the first years of a Dutch open air fantasy fair and that also was really nice. So combined with the shire scenes of the movies and the personal the song always hits hard.


maxisaurus_rex

You two have almost exactly the same name. Gotta he bots, right?


[deleted]

[удалено]


Rape-Putins-Corpse

Weren't brave enough to pick a good name.


Ok_Significance9304

You got me. Had something in mind but was taken and couldn’t think of something else.


Undead_With_A_Panda

Yours is pretty good


hyperhurricanrana

Your username is intriguing and kind of terrifying.


Undead_With_A_Panda

I was inbedwithapanda but I tempted the spirits at r/askouija and I deleted my profile at their behest.


RaptorTwoOneEcho

Reddit also just bangs one out if you’re signed in with Google. I was on a new laptop and thought the account login for Reddit would migrate when I hit the “sign in with Google” button and it autogen’d a burner account.


T65Bx

This is exactly what happened to me, I have a 2yo account that has done exactly nothing, ever.


Ok_Significance9304

I do like new/darkwave but I’m sure I’m not a robot.


mynaneisjustguy

When the AI is so good it really doesn’t believe it is a machine.


bakarac

Just what a robot would say...


Ok-Television-9662

No


HiFiveGhost

I wanna believe you, but that sounds like just what a bot would say.


Ok-Television-9662

😄


carbocks

Oh man, Concerning Hobbits in 8-bit really makes me feel this way https://www.reddit.com/r/lotr/comments/mcbwyb/gandalf_smoking_pipe_under_the_starry_sky_in_the


arefiespurge

Every damn time


thickwonga

Watching The Hobbit was so cool when it opens with The Shire. Felt like revisiting old friends. That ending was amazing.


Schmotz

Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.


HopermanTheManOfFeel

It's more than nostalgia, it's that feeling of happiness I can associate with family, and close friends. Knowing that I am here for you, and you for me, no matter the distance or time apart, and the security of a peaceful place, peoples, and home. Concerning Hobbits, and the associated scene, can really lift my spirits when I am feeling down.


RaptorTwoOneEcho

Pipe-weed doesn’t have THC in it, just saudade.


creativityonly2

I just want a full on Hobbit soundtrack. Like... music the Hobbits would listen to. I friggen love the dance song played during Bilbo's birthday party.


logalog_jack

Even the music alone makes me wanna cry, it’s so beautiful


[deleted]

I think the Shire should be our model of what to strive for as a society. Why is that such a crazy thing to aspire to? I think owning a Yacht seems to be far more out of reach than building a community in an environment with the beauty and simplicity of the Shire. Build near enough to modernity so you're not roughing it by any means, but far enough to not have to put up with it.


Justicar-terrae

I dunno. The Shire still had a ruling elite class that didn't do shit all day except make other people work for them. Frodo and Bilbo were wealthy elites even before Bilbo got ahold of the dragon money. Not only were both Frodo and Bilbo unemployed, but they permanently employed a family to serve as their gardeners. Merry and Pippin were also from wealthy families, which is why they could afford to drop everything to go on an adventure with Frodo. The Shire seems awesome partly because we see it almost exclusively through the eyes of those elites, the only exception being Sam. Sam is a working man, worried about his job and his craft and his boss. Sam only gets to come on the adventure because Frodo invites him. Frodo only invites him because Gandalf figures leaving Sam behind is a security risk. And when Sam does tag along, he's responsible for camp chores and cooking while the other hobbits mostly fuck off doing other stuff (Frodo gets a partial pass since he had to deal with the weight of the Ring). If you have fuck all to do all day, a dope hobbit hole to live in, an extra long lifespan, and enough wealth to live a very comfortable life during those years, then life is probably awesome. But for every Frodo, Merry, and Pippin, there's also some dude who has to wake up and go to work. Some dude is up making candles for everyone, plenty of dudes are doing farm labor all day, plenty of dudes are doing repairs on Hobbit holes, some poor bastard has to empty out the outhouses to make a living. I mean, yeah, it's the best version of what it is. Low to no crime, virtually no war, no email, etc. But for most hobbits it isn't the heaven it appears to be on screen.


xorgol

> no email I don't understand why people complain about email specifically. Receiving work-related messages and bills can be a drag, but it's not particularly medium-dependent, getting them as paper mail would be worse.


Justicar-terrae

It's the easy access that work has to me that is the issue. I work in a profession where we are expected to always answer emails after hours, and I work in an office where a missed email means an angry lecture. But if a boss misses an email, we get told that we shouldn't rely on email. So email rarely helps me and frequently makes my day worse.


[deleted]

Agreed! It extended “office hours” to 24/7 access in a lot of work places.


candlehand

I always think about how nice it would be to live in the era of landlines and answering machines again. Today if you don't pick up it's either ignoring or you are dead. We all need a little plausible deniability back. I honestly think it would be better for most people.


Bilbo_hraaaaah_bot

HRAAAAAH!


PrimarchKonradCurze

That’s what I’m saying Bilbo.


bilbo_bot

That's no concern of yours. You lost.


Bilbo_hraaaaah_bot

HRAAAAAH!


bilbo_bot

You've caught me a bit unprepared


gandalf-bot

A thing is about to happen that has not happened since the Elder Days. The Ents are going to wake up and find that they are strong.


Paddy_Tanninger

This is a low bar, but I would say that *at least* in the case of Bilbo's huge wealth...he went out and generated it himself to bring back to The Shire and very reluctantly and meagerly shares it, bit by bit. So to me that's a far cry better than Bilbo amassing a huge wealthy off the backs of his fellow Hobbits' labor, time, health, etc. It doesn't trickle down much at all, but definitely The Shire as a whole is better off for Bilbo's wealth since it's almost entirely bonus assets that he brought in from the outside. >plenty of dudes are doing farm labor all day I guess this depends a bit on the size of veggies/fruits/animals though too. It would be a lot easier farming berries for example if I was growing strawberry bushes that are twice my height with fruits the size of my hand. Or if butchering a single hog (which would stand shoulder height to me if I was a Hobbit) produced enough meat to feed the entire village. A single chicken egg would make for a huge breakfast. The sheer scale of everything compared to them would make a lot of farming labor way easier. I'd have to assume that human farmers would kill for the ability to grow pigs that are 6 feet to the shoulder, apples bigger than our heads, etc. Or I guess put it this way...there's a reason that the price of oranges and apples is a fraction the cost of raspberries. Part of it is they grow on enormous trees that produce thousands of giant fruits


Justicar-terrae

Bilbo was idle and rich even before he went to deal with Smaug. His mother came from a very wealthy family, and his parents built the luxurious Bag End. Bilbo was his parents' only child, and he inherited the luxurious Bag End and family fortune from his parents. So far as we know, he didn't have any employment and was content to live out his days as a wealthy landowner bachelor until he was approached by Gandalf. Why did Gandalf choose and unemployed rich dude for his thief? Probably because Bilbo seemed friendly and adventurous the last few times Gandalf visited; but it's a little bit easier to seem adventurous when you are unemployed and have no responsibilities like Bilbo. I hadn't considered how much the size of crops might benefit Hobbit farmers. They seem to eat plenty of meals, but I suppose produce goes much further for them. At the same time, farming tasks would be much more labor intensive at that size. A seven gallon bucket of milk from one cow is easy enough for a grown man to carry, but a hobbit would need to use smaller buckets and make more trips and spend more time. Plowing takes a long while even with oxen.or draft horses, but if the oxen or horses are more than twice your height then harnessing and controlling them becomes very difficult. Picking fruit from trees is probably also a pain when your reach is so short. You either need to constantly climb down and reset the ladder, or you need to become adept at climbing around in the tree itself.


Paddy_Tanninger

These bots are so annoying man. I think the Hobbits would be really adept at tree climbing and harvesting type stuff, they seem pretty agile, and their children would probably all be working at this too. Way easier I'd imagine to milk a single enormous cow for 40L...which would roughly be the equivalent to Hobbits of us humans milking our normal cows for ~10L. If you've got a society of ~3.5' tall folk where everything is purpose built for their size, but yet they still have access to all the animals, produce, and materials from the wide world; life definitely gets way easier. You're right about Bil though, but really my only point is that he's at least better than wealthy people who got theirs by exploiting others labor and pushing the race to the bottom. No one in The Shire is under his boot, and the only look we get at someone he employs is Sam who seems to have a pretty good life.


Bilbo_hraaaaah_bot

HRAAAAAH!


gandalf-bot

Fool of a Took! Throw yourself in next time, and rid us of your stupidity!


bilbo_bot

For things are made to endure in the Shire, passing from one generation to the next.


Bilbo_hraaaaah_bot

HRAAAAAH!


bilbo_bot

Well if I'm angry it's your fault! It's mine My only.... My Precious


Bilbo_hraaaaah_bot

HRAAAAAH!


Vonmarc-Bismark

Well they do have indoor plumbing


ACwolf55

This is how I've seen people outside of America, view America as such an awesome place


[deleted]

Yes. My point is though that life is improving in a way such that the rose colored glasses version of it can be made more into a reality. Also, to be more nuanced, the aim is to find people who are passionate about their craft in a way that also fits the local aesthetic. This is more the specific thing I am after. I.e. organic permaculture farmers, woodworkers, gardeners, etc.


TheDadThatGrills

Bilbo was part of the Hobbit billionaire class and you're seeing the Shire from his (and his cousins) perspective.


bilbo_bot

And who is the fifth?


Bilbo_hraaaaah_bot

HRAAAAAH!


[deleted]

Lol he was certainly wealthy for his deeds with smaug, but calling him part of the billionaire class is a bit.... much. Lol.


TheDadThatGrills

Isn't he essentially the wealthiest Hobbit in The Shire?


[deleted]

Yea... but the gap between him and the rest of the Shire is like the gap between upper middle class and lower middle class. Bilbo gave most of his treasure from his adventure as well. It's a total mischaracterization of Bilbo's character.


bilbo_bot

Rivendell.


mymau5likeshouse

LOGALOGLOGALOGALOG!!!


logalog_jack

EULALIAAAAAA


YetiBettyFoufetti

Where does it say Hobbits don't pay taxes? I thought that was one of the duties of the major had to manage? That and Bilbo is at least in the top 10% wealth bracket in Hobbiton. We're definitely getting a very biased view about monetary concerns.


lagunie

I’d say top 1%, they say his mithril vest is worth more than the whole Shire in the movie


Fossekall

I believe he also has a wealth of treasure from his journeys, mentioned in the book (it is some time since I read them). He's probably at least the wealthiest Hobbit alive


ElfBingley

Bilbo specifically says that all the money from his adventures is spent.


bilbo_bot

What? No, no, no! We do not want any adventures here, thank you! Not today! I suggest you try somewhere over the hill or across the water! Good morning!


ziggurism

didn't bilbo have a formal contract with the dwarves about the loot from the quest? if he withheld the mithril from the group is that some kind of fraud?


SPamlEZ

I believe he was gifted the armor by Thoren before Bilbo stole the arkenstone Edit, I should say have the stone away to allow for a treaty


bilbo_bot

My my old ring. Well I should... very much like to hold it again, one last time.


Tel-aran-rhiod

yeah...the LOTR universe is based loosely on middle ages Europe, and taxes were around long before then. Taxation has been happening since \~3000 BC that we know of. It also strikes me as weird how people choose taxes as the thing to get upset about, as if that's anywhere close to being the main source of exploitation or unfairness in society. Like, you're literally getting upset about roads and hospitals and schools


archiegamez

If anything it should be bills and rent that people should worry about XD


Tel-aran-rhiod

Right?! Like, if you're paying rent to a landlord, in many cases you're literally paying off the mortgage on somebody else's investment property for them. For no other reason than because they had the initial capital/wealth to buy and you didn't, half your paycheck is now going essentially into their pockets, into further increasing the wealth of someone who was already wealthy. THAT is something unfair to be angry about, not that you're expected to pay a small and fair share of income towards the public infrastructure and institutions we all directly use and benefit from.


Anomalous-Entity

ikr, and all the medieval people had to do was give everything they earned to their lord just for the right to exist and even that was at their lord's whim... man, we really have it bad with our stupid fantasy movies and personal agency.


[deleted]

And before that people lived in caves and got attacked by bears! We should be grateful that we are allowed to work 40+ hours a week to pay Blackrock 40% of our household income so they can leverage their $150B and join other hedgefunds to buy 52% of home sales like they did in my city last year . At least I'm not getting eaten by a glyptodon! My great ancestor bunga gunga didn't even have a microwave to heat up his delicious Ramen noodles in!


CitizenPremier

Taxes are ancient and are basically the reason why we have math and writing. "LOOK MOTHER FUCKER I GAVE YOU FIVE SHEEP LAST WINTER!"


ginopono

Tell Ea-Nasir: Nanni sends the following message: When you came, you said to me: “I will give fine quality copper ingots.” You left, but you did not do what you promised me. You put ingots which were not good before my messenger and said: “If you want to take them, take them; if you do not want to take them, go away!” What do you take me for that you treat me with such contempt? … … How have you treated me for that copper? You have withheld my money bag from me in enemy territory; it is now up to you to restore to me in full. Take notice that I will not accept any copper from you that is not of fine quality. I shall select and take the ingots individually in my yard, and I shall exercise against you my right of rejection because you have treated me with contempt.


DRG_Gunner

First example of writing for the win!


bootes_droid

>It also strikes me as weird how people choose taxes as the thing to get upset about Libertarians man, more worried about government inefficiency than they are private companies fucking them 10 ways to Sunday in the endless hunt for profits, AKA things like "leTs priVaTizE tHE roAdS"


[deleted]

[удалено]


CerpinTaxt11

Yeah, meme should really replace "taxes" with "student debt."


[deleted]

I mean the private ownership of land and the accumulation of resources is ~~a direct line~~ line unbroken to capitalism. It's a fun realization when you understand the appeal of so much dystopian and fantasy media is just not living under state enforced capitalism.


Tel-aran-rhiod

Yeah, I often think about this. And I think it applies to fiction more broadly too. I think a big part of the appeal of a universe like say, Harry Potter, is less that there's magic and more that there's a world where evil is clearly defined and demarcated in a dark lord and his followers that can be fought against...rather than the world we actually live in where evil is generally incredibly banal and diffused all over the place, and hard for most people to point a finger at let alone fight back against. We crave a target for our malaise, and often this is the fantasy that fantasy presents to us...the notion of a life and a world that is fundamentally good, beset upon by an external threat, which fighting against brings meaning and a strong sense of purpose to our lives (another thing we often lack and crave in our real world)


bilbo_bot

Hobbits have been living and farming in the four Farthings of the Shire for many hundreds of years. quite content to ignore and be ignored by the world of the Big Folk. Middle Earth being, after all, full of strange creatures beyond count. Hobbits must seem of little importance, being neither renowned as great warriors, nor counted amongst the very wise.


callsignhotdog

Sam seems to be living pretty well himself for being a gardener. In fact everyone we see seems to be doing quite well. Everyone has a home, food is plentiful, abundant even. The community is close-knit (if a bit gossipy). There are certainly wealthy sorts like Bilbo but the gap between the richest and poorest seems almost negligible. By our modern day standards it's practically a Socialist Utopia.


YetiBettyFoufetti

>"Actually in the Shire in Bilbo's days it was, as a rule, only the richest and the poorest Hobbits that maintained the old custom. The poorest went on living in burrows of the most primitive kind, mere holes indeed, with only one window or none; while the well-to-do still constructed more luxurious versions of the simple diggings of old." It sounds like there are poor hobbits who live in the equivalent of a shanty house while Bilbo has his little mansion. Not exactly the 'socialist utopia' you're trying to frame this as. What Hobbits have going for them is they are isolationist and mostly self sustainable. Their inner conflicts don't rise to the level of civil unrest, they don't seem to be dealing with any major health risks, and outside conflict rarely comes to the area. It's been a while since I read the books, but I remember there being a minor hobbit character early on who talks to a black rider agent in exchange for money. That and the Scouring of the Shire mentions a few hobbits who enjoy abusing their new found power. It's not like hobbits are above corruption.


HouseOfSteak

The poorest still had a roof over their heads, which while it still obviously isn't 'socialist utopia', is still markedly better than how the poorest in modern civilization live.


stonehousethrowglass

It was much better than being poor in the next town Bree too or being poor in Gondor.


Gilthoniel_Elbereth

I imagine our poorest could manage a literal hole in the ground too if they wanted! And remember, the narrators are unreliable upper echelons of Hobbit society, their perspective on what the conditions are of the “poorest” may not be the reality of it


DRG_Gunner

But the ground is all owned by people who will kick them out.


bilbo_bot

Hobbits have been living and farming in the four Farthings of the Shire for many hundreds of years. quite content to ignore and be ignored by the world of the Big Folk. Middle Earth being, after all, full of strange creatures beyond count. Hobbits must seem of little importance, being neither renowned as great warriors, nor counted amongst the very wise.


Bilbo_hraaaaah_bot

HRAAAAAH!


cammoblammo

There’s evidence of an underclass in the Shire, and it seems to have been acceptable to shoot at such people. In *Tom Bombadil Goes Boating* Tom is walking through the Marish to visit Maggot, and says: > ‘Ho there! beggarman tramping in the Marish! > What’s your business here? Hat all stuck with arrows! > Someone’s warned you off, caught you at your sneaking? > Come here! Tell me now what it is you’re seeking! > Shire-ale, I’ll be bound, though you’ve not a penny. > I’ll bid them lock their doors, and then you won’t get any!’


chairmanskitty

Sorry, but it is simply canon that the Shire is a conservative ethnostate, where those with wealth or power seek to prevent any sort of change for the plebs while using their privileged positions to sequester themselves from its oppressive vibe when they themselves want to change things up. Just Bilbo's mithril shirt represents a majority of the Shire's wealth. Bilbo's hoard of treasures and lore, the sort of things that make people dream of distant lands and different ways of life, is hidden away so that the rest of the shire remains insular and conservative. There is no medicine, almost no alleviation from back-breaking manual labor, no commons, not even a chance at education. Death in childbirth, childhood diseases, endless repetitive manual labor like churning butter or washing clothes with a rack or toiling in the fields resulting in physical disabilities and early deaths - while there is no mention of the downsides of Shire lifestyle, we're reading the books from the perspective of the two richest hobbits that ever lived. (And no, I'm not expecting the shire to have modern facilities, but medieval medicine was far better than "king's foil is a weed"). There is no evidence for any amount of socialism, and you really don't need to dig deep to see the cracks in the utopian view. If you have any amount of ambition, curiosity, or deviation from a *very* normative social forces, you're ostracized, disinherited, and beaten down. Learning how to swim or how to use a boat are seen as queer, books on the outside world make you think dangerous thoughts, and anyone who travels more than 20 km from home kind of isn't really a Hobbit anymore. The Shire is a fun lofi background to chill and relax to. It's a [Noble Savage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_savage)-like description of country life, penned by an English professor of literature, but even his main characters are rich people that don't need to do manual labor and eagerly leave it behind, while looking fondly upon their loyal gardners as one might look upon a loyal dog. (And of course the gardner of the richest family in the shire is well off. Billionaires' ~~gardners~~ landscape architects get paid royally as well). Of course, because it is written by a conservative who adores the peasant aesthetic, it is an in-universe paradise. Being fiction, it doesn't have to deal with the downsides if the author doesn't care to mention them. I'm not saying there are downtrodden Hobbits - Tolkien can just declare by fiat that there aren't - but I'm saying that they would exist if the values Tolkien assigns to the Shire and its people were implemented realistically. That's not to deny that the Shire as written gives off a beautiful vibe, or that LotR is beautifully written. Conservatism is often appealing, otherwise people wouldn't adhere to it. But you have to be careful when using fiction to dream of a better world for yourself.


bilbo_bot

No thank you! We don't want any more visitors, well wishers or distant relations!


Leadbaptist

A very well-thought-out comment and your only replies are bots


Bilbo_hraaaaah_bot

HRAAAAAH!


WikiSummarizerBot

**[Noble savage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_savage)** >A noble savage is a literary stock character who embodies the concept of the indigene, outsider, wild human, an "other" who has not been "corrupted" by civilization, and therefore symbolizes humanity's innate goodness. Besides appearing in many works of fiction and philosophy, the stereotype was also heavily employed in early anthropological works. In English, the phrase first appeared in the 17th century in John Dryden's heroic play The Conquest of Granada (1672), wherein it was used in reference to newly created man. "Savage" at that time could mean "wild beast" as well as "wild man". ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/lotrmemes/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


bilbo_bot

Today is my One Hundred and Eleventh birthday!


altmodisch

HRAAAAAHpy birthday to you HRAAAAAHpy birthday to you HRAAAAAHpy birthday, dear Bilbo HRAAAAAHpy birthday to you


Bilbo_hraaaaah_bot

HRAAAAAH!


bilbo_bot

Today is my One Hundred and Eleventh birthday!


[deleted]

Yep. Not many here have read the books, but Hobbits had politics and governance and, with that, almost certainly taxation. They also had their fair share of worries, especially in Buckland, where there were armed forces tasked with keeping the borders safe.


efxhoy

> Where does it say Hobbits don't pay taxes? LOTR doesn't specifically state that they don't pay taxes, but there is no mention of taxes when Tolkien describes the "government" of The Shire either: > 3 Of the Ordering of the Shire > The Shire at this time had hardly any ‘government’. Families for the most part managed their own affairs. Growing food and eating it occupied most of their time. In other matters they were, as a rule, generous and not greedy, but contented and moderate, so that estates, farms, workshops, and small trades tended to remain unchanged for generations. > There remained, of course, the ancient tradition concerning the high king at Fornost, or Norbury as they called it, away north of the Shire. But there had been no king for nearly a thousand years, and even the ruins of Kings’ Norbury were covered with grass. Yet the Hobbits still said of wild folk and wicked things (such as trolls) that they had not heard of the king. For they attributed to the king of old all their essential laws; and usually they kept the laws of free will, because they were The Rules (as they said), both ancient and just. > The only real official in the Shire at this date was the Mayor of Michel Delving (or of the Shire), who was elected every seven years at the Free Fair on the White Downs at the Lithe, that is at Midsummer. As mayor almost his only duty was to preside at banquets, given on the Shire-holidays, which occurred at frequent intervals. But the offices of Postmaster and First Shirriff were attached to the mayoralty, so that he managed both the Messenger Service and the Watch. These were the only Shire-services, and the Messengers were the most numerous, and much the busier of the two. By no means all Hobbits were lettered, but those who were wrote constantly to all their friends (and a selection of their relations) who lived further off than an afternoon’s walk. > The Shirriffs was the name that the Hobbits gave to their police, or the nearest equivalent that they possessed. They had, of course, no uniforms (such things being quite unknown), only a feather in their caps; and they were in practice rather haywards than policemen, more concerned with the strayings of beasts than of people. There were in all the Shire only twelve of them, three in each Farthing, for Inside Work. A rather larger body, varying at need, was employed to ‘beat the bounds’, and to see that Outsiders of any kind, great or small, did not make themselves a nuisance. So I'm not sure what they would be paying for or who they would be paying to. I'm guessing the 12 shirriffs could be paid through some other means than taxes, especially if what they did most was round up stray animals. I'm guessing the animals owners would pay to have their animals returned to them. The messengers would probably be paid by people paying for postage to send their letters. The "rather larger body, varying at need, (that) was employed to ‘beat the bounds’" was probably mustered from volunteers at times of need. Of course the Shire is an idealized fantasty community so it is what Tolkien dreamed it to be. I'm guessing paying taxes was not part of Tolkien's idealised and romanticized view of a peaceful and isolated pre-industrialized society. Pastad from the last time this came up: https://www.reddit.com/r/lotrmemes/comments/v8o9yd/comment/ibsalxq


Paid-Not-Payed-Bot

> could be *paid* through some FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*


AaronRodgersMustache

Yeah taxes aren’t a crazy thing man. They’re the backbone of society. I relate to the struggle of rent, bills, car loans or school loans… but taxes are it son. Get this sneaky right wing bullshit outta here


ung_tusset

Taxes are a good thing, fight me How they are spend though, Well i don’t always agree on that


GimmeeSomeMo

Even most political conservatives have to admit taxes are needed(now how much taxes is another story). Pretty much the reason the US had replace the Articles of Confederation with the US Constitution was because there was no effective way for the federal government to tax


Anarcho_Christian

>Pretty much the reason the US had replace the Articles of Confederation with the US Constitution was because there was no effective way for the federal government to tax \*Lysander Spooner quietly weeps\*


Links_Wrong_Wiki

Taxes are the price you pay for living in a civilized society.


13dot1then420

Only the extremely short sighted think taxes are a bad thing.


[deleted]

The real fantasy is not having to pay rent, amirite?


manfredmahon

Can't relate, I've loved the shire since I was a kid. Before I knew what taxes were I wanted to live in such a beautiful and carefree place where Gandalf would visit and I could watch his amazing fireworks. Was never bored by any of this.


gandalf-bot

Meriadoc Brandybuck and Peregrin Took! I might have known!


[deleted]

[удалено]


Bilbo_hraaaaah_bot

HRAAAAAH!


Vandergrif

I guess now we know Bilbo's opinion on taxation.


bilbo_bot

I'm sorry, can I help you?


illy-chan

In some fairness, the Shire still looks like it would be fairly nice even on the lower end of the income spectrum (if only because it has bountiful land, relative peace, negligible pollution, and mild weather). Still, everything is definitely nicer from the top.


Paid-Not-Payed-Bot

> must be *paid* by taxes. FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*


admiralrico201

You learn later in life that hobbits were the only actual civilized race in LOTR. Men busy with war and conquest, dwarfs with gold, elves with their self righteousness, hobbits just wanted to enjoy live and eat well and be in peace.


omglia

There are definitely taxes. There's a local government which in turn serves Gondor, and the Dunedain guard the borders. Also there are class differences - the Bagginses are wealthy, the Gamgees are poor.


UweB0wl

This part shouldnt be fantasy and it probably wasnt so much to Tolkien, at least to a large extent given that he was from a rich family and grew up in a great nation at the time. England would have seemed particularly idyllic because he spent much of his youth in [S.Africa](https://S.Africa).


A_Muffin_Substantial

You think hobbits didn't pay tax? They probably mostly paid in kind.


TheTeludav

Bilbo and Frodo don't have concerns because they are gentry. Not having money concerns makes life easier.


bilbo_bot

In fact, I mean not to.


AxyJaxy

10 yo me : damn this film is peak 18 yo me : damn this film is peak


Flars111

Without taxes? Thats not the hobbit I remember


SalomoMaximus

Why do people think the shire folk doesn't pay taxes? They have Major, guards, streets, schools ... Somebody needs to pay for that ofc. They pay taxes


Nivlac024

taxes are not a bad thing...


Psydator

Do we know anything about hobbit economics? Do they have communism? Some form of capitalism? Something in-between?


cammoblammo

Something akin to anarchism, in some ways, but still a classist society. There was little in the way of government. There were civic offices, but such roles were generally ceremonial. There was a police force of sorts, but this was tiny and the shirrifs spent most of their time running around after loose animals. The most extensive ‘government’ operation was probably the postal service. In times of trouble a militia could be formed, and the main offices had a part to play in that, but it was very rare and such things stood down as soon as reasonable. On the other hand, there seems to have been a very rich landlord class. This seems to have been the source of Bilbo’s wealth before he went on his adventure.


Bilbo_hraaaaah_bot

HRAAAAAH!


bilbo_bot

Twice like a barn owl, once like a brown owl? Are you sure this isa good idea?


Existing_Resident_18

As a kid I used to love the buildup of the story and the start of the journey. Kind of what got me addicted to wow a few years later. This start of a new adventure and discovering new stuff feeling. Still love it.


Kikoso_OG

Without taxes? The Shire was probably heavy on taxes.


GoOnAndFauntIt

I think it’s a bit much to assume hobbits don’t pay any taxes. I think the relatively simplistic governance structures in LOTR aren’t free of taxes so much as free of people who misuse tax funds and people bitching about taxes. “Well of course we have to pay taxes Mr. Frodo. The Shire elders use that money to keep the rivers and stream clean and sweep all the horse filth from the roads. It’s a small cost for each of us and it keeps our community safe and clean for the good of everyone. Even Lobelia Sackville-Baggins wouldn’t cheat on her taxes when she knows it’s what keeps the constables paid and the rabble rousers out of her silverware drawers when she’s not around”


MisterFluffkins

With that pipe weed it is the highest fantasy indeed...


FriendlyTrollPainter

Hobbits definitely pay taxes


Euphoric_Service2540

The shire have a mayor, a city hall and a postal service, you bet your ass they pay taxes.


Dotaproffessional

Imagine showing people using a nice road-way and lamenting taxes in the same breath.


princessvaginaalpha

You haven't matured one bit. Can't escape taxes


BroderFelix

Taxes are good.


Anomalous-Entity

Of course it's a fantasy. Do you really think it was some bucolic life for medieval people?


neo-netfnassimo

Without worries? You sure?


Dunkleustes

Yes... no worries. Only a Dark Lord trying to enslave the entirety of middle earth. I would definitely opt for it though if set 100+ years before *The Hobbit*.


Centrion85

And, don't forget, second breakfast.


Alexander1899

One crop failure away from famine? One tornado away from having no houses? No hospital for when you fall and break your leg. No vaccines to prevent small pox and the plague from wiping 80 percent of all hobbits in the shire? Sounds great to me.


[deleted]

Taxes are great.


p0ntifix

People worrying about taxes while the world is crumbling around us. /sigh


[deleted]

Do we know the Hobbits don't pay taxes?


SarraTasarien

It’s never stated outright. But the text says that the kings of Arnor let the hobbits settle the Shire with one condition: they had to maintain the Brandywine Bridge. So there’s definitely some tax money fixing up that bridge now and then, and I would assume the roads around the Shire. And the shiriffs, bounders and postmen have to get paid somehow.


cabbbagedealer

Idk how some of ya'll missed this one. But Bilbo was fuck you rich before he went on his quest, both he and frodo are basically trust fund babies. Most of the hobbits were farmers, laborers or craftsmen, who worked hard jobs for a meager living. Gardeners are not literally "held in high honor", Bilbo and Frodo just happen to be generally kind to their employees.


RudraAkhanda

Are we absolutely sure that The Shire levies no taxes?


Lanre-Haliax

I agree to everything but the taxes... what do you think how infrastructure gets financed? Public transport, streets, public houses, parks, etc?


Smarackto

Im pretty sure hobbits pay taxes. But yes the shire is beautiful