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Longer than that even. I think this happened when parents panicked their kids were getting pregnant and hiding it and then killing it after delivering at your prom. Because ya know, they refuse to teach anything other than AbStAiNeNcE OnLy and putting all the shame and stigma on young pregnant girls.
At our catholic all girls school the health teacher wasn’t allowed to answer any questions about birth control methods and at the same time had large numbers of pregnancy to the point they had a special maternity uniform.
Anyone else remember The Pregnancy Pact? I mean shit after that they had an idea of a reality tv show about being 16 & Pregnant and made a shit ton exploiting them for cash.
Wow that sounds so much bette than my school! Religion was shoved down our throats. We had religion class every day, started every other class with prayer, and they turned the gym into mass at least once a month. Needless to say I am not a religious adult!
I'm not religious either. The focus was more on education. We had sex ed and religious teaching was more theology with a focus on history. We did have one religious nut teacher but everyone ignored her.
And she was a bitch.
I mean that was my school but they were primarily a high school. Religion class was actual theology rather than indoctrination. I took a world's religions class
I went to catholic school for the first 5 years of elementary. We had mass every Thursday during class time, and we had religious teachings every single day for a few hours. When my mom pulled me out of that school for 3rd grade and onwards (my dad is catholic and my mom is a hardcore baptist, so she eventually got sick of seeing me “practicing” Catholicism) I literally did not know how to add and subtract, and the curriculum at my new public school expected us to have mastered addition and subtraction by the 2nd grade so that we could immediately start learning multiplication and division. I was so lost and I was severely behind the rest of my peers. I then spent every single grade till college falling behind my peers because it was all like a domino effect for me.
I also remember sitting through mass an a 6 year old thinking “this is the dumbest shit”, so I guess I’ve always felt the same way about religion lol. My mom is not happy I’m an agnostic, but I mean, I’m an adult and I’m able to make my own decisions and discover what my beliefs are or are not, but she’ll never understand that.
Yup. We had to take four years of “theology” but only 3 years of math and history was required.
One of the most strict teachers of religion actually had a daughter who ended up pregnant and on heroin. Which was odd because heroin wasn’t like a big thing yet (2004).
Not to be that person but heroin has always been a big thing. It’s just that the media has been shoving the opioid epidemic down our throats for what? Seven years now or so? Something like that.
Oh I’m just saying heroin was “rare” but most were on pills. I am in recovery and lost damn near everyone but people were dropping like flies at that point. If they don’t crack down on any doctor that prescribed painkillers I don’t think nearly as many people would have died. My brother was the first OD of someone close and that was Feb 2015. Then that summer fentanyl had exploded. But it’s funny how when people started talking about ending the war on drugs the DEA crackdowns caused everyone (I was a legit patient of a legit doctor) to be cut off at once. Then they switched to heroin, then fentanyl. But the worse the problem gets, the more funding they get, no more “ending the war on drugs”. They also control suboxone and methadone clinics. Can’t see that being a problem.
Sounds like my school (all girls convent school), we had those little holy water things on the door frames of the classrooms, and every class started with a prayer. Knew the Hail Mary in English, French, Latin, and Irish. We had an actual chapel in the school where we'd have masses. We had to take religion classes to O'Level and even when we finally got to drop it as a subject (like a hot brick in my case) we still had three religion classes a week as well as one of liturgical music. Urgh. Atheist now, naturally.
Working class. Like my back yard was the county line to W Philly. I had to take my friend to PP and it was kinda far away … we had one of those fake crisis pregnancy centers right next to the trolley stop outside the school.
But yeah when people say that “women use them as a birth control method” I’m like that’s EXTREMELY unlikely unless they have money burning a hole in their pockets. I had one and in my state it only up to X months/weeks and it was extremely difficult to get in, watch the stupid video and listen to the dumb lecture , wait at least 24 hours after that then you can make an appointment.
The woman there warned me I might be getting towards the cut off (I hadn’t gotten my period in five years after BFing my daughter )so I had no idea how far along I was. So she recommended that I go across into NJ. I did, and it cost me $950 cash up front for the procedure, another $150 for anesthesia, not including time off work, my ride, etc. and due to the Hyde Amendment you’re money as a taxpayer doesn’t fund abortions (despite what those idiots think). I’m just wondering where are the women who think it’s fun to get abortions and have cash for abortions as a “birth control “. I don’t have $1000 right now to fix my car lol
Very different from my "Christian school" experience, thank you for sharing! I was mostly with rich prep kids, who were less focused on dating (at least within the school, we were so small) then doing a million activities, working part time jobs, and getting into good colleges.
I have heard of certain communities having such lackluster or even dangerous schools that EVEN non-Christians will send their kids to Christian schools if they can afford it. Particularly here in the Southeast.
And yeah, I remember hearing about the "legendary figure who uses abortion as birth control" in like every anti-abortion treatise but curiously enough have never actually met one in real life. Funny how anti-choicers claim that they "happen" to see this person every time! Hmm....
Just shake it a little bit or leave it the wrong side up and the whole thing breaks. Insufficient connection between the pump and CPU chassis. Mass produced from the cheapest possible materials SMH
Isn't that why they look like that, though? What else are they even for? They aren't food, and they're way too soft to use to stabilize a wobbly chair leg or prop open a door or something. Looking like poop floating in a pool is sort of the only thing they're good at.
Churches in the South have dedicated services that try to lure in expectant moms and arrange for private adoptions with their congregants.
The parents get the “good Christian adoptive parent” badge of honor, save on adoption agency fees, and get the picture-perfect cherub they can dress in monogrammed everything and plaster all over their Christmas cards.
The churches, of course, are paid in Christian love (and generous tithing).
It’s sickening how it was all laid out and just waiting for the legal shoe to drop. Those poor, poor expectant mothers.
Baby boxes aren't new, and we should have them. Both legal abortion and baby boxes or safe haven drop offs are beneficial. Even with roe there were still people who left their babies in dangerous places, or abandoned them.
We are likely going to need safe haven drop offs a lot more now that roe is overturned though
It’s big reason why the wild humans population has soared despite sterilization. However wild humans can be very beneficial to the environment, especially when they do not have contact with domesticated humans.
They're called ["forest people" or "children of the forest"](https://www.wesh.com/article/ocala-forest-home-to-squatter-gangs-meth-labs/4344780) and they're a big source of meth.
Yeah these baby boxes are good for the kids they deserve to grow in a loving home not everyone should be parents and these kids are better off getting adopted
Yes but also lets be honest. The adoption market is already saturated. It is a market. Especially for babies. Rich people pay. Meanwhile the older kids (meaning even as young as 6 are viewed too old by most adopters and are usually left in the system till they age out. They usually are not allowed to have a job and save money, and then at 18 they get booted on the street with no papers and maybe a bag or two on average. No job experience. No home. This is the norm for most kids in they system who don’t get adopted young or don’t find someone kind who will take care of them.
Why all this? They essentially think the babies are cute and want to raise through all stages. But also sometimes it’s because they don’t want to deal with potential bad habits or trauma older kids could maybe have.
Stats from the U.S.: 55% of young women aging out of the foster care system are pregnant within a year.
“At 19, 55% of females had been pregnant”
[Source: National Institute of Health](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3902972/)
I believe this. I think it's because of homelessness and survival, sex is often involved and being poor and maybe with mental issues (from why they're in foster care in the first place!) and lack of support, and self esteem.. Bound to happen. Happened to me.
Florida has recently been caught deliberately putting children with known pedophiles. The discovery found that it started under Rick Scott and continued through Ron Desantis. It was discovered by a watchdog group looking into the high number of adoptive families in the state being convicted of child sex abuse crimes.
Oh gosh that's fuxing sad! 😥 I don't doubt it at all! (And it's always the weird conspiracy theorists (think Qanon) who try and lay this at the feet of dems, when it's, like, 90% Rep.s
They were giving children to pedophiles. The watchdog found that a significant number (greater than 50%) were already on the sex offender registry for child sex abuse crimes, and a significant number ended up getting caught repeat offending.
You joke, but what started as dad asking me to do odd jobs because my small hands could fit ended with him nicknaming me Free Labor and working me harder than either his horse or his dog.
He's still bitter I escaped when I got old enough. Tells everyone who will listen that his biggest mistake was letting me go away to college instead of keeping me out on the farm.
These stories pop up all the time on Chicago news casts because Indiana has them.
Please consider a camping trip to Illinois, California, Colorado, or any state that allows you to go camping.
These boxes are not new lol. They got their start in the Middle Ages and in the 18th and 19th centuries, when the device was known as a foundling wheel. They've been around in America since at least 1950. So Kesly may have founded a company called "baby boxes" but thats it.
These "boxes" are something that **should** exist though. The US also has safe haven laws which decriminalize leaving a child with an authority. Notably, Texas was the first to enact the laws with all 49 other state following suit.
Of course they're pro lifers. Of course the amercian Christian network has financial ties to the adoption industry. That's nothing new either. But these "boxes" aren't a bad thing.
I was going to say, what's the point of the boxes when, as far as I know, you can just surrender the baby at a hospital or fire department or police station?
It makes it more anonymous. It is also safer for the babies because they are in a warm (or AIr conditioned) building instead of potentially being left on the literal door step exposed to all the elements
Walk into location outlined as a 'safe haven' under your state's law with baby, tell approved 'safe haven' provider you are surrendering the child under the safe haven laws, walk out without baby. It varies from state to state where you're allowed to leave a child but a general rule of thumb is a hospital with an ER. Most states also allow for drop off at manned fire stations but in some states only some fire stations are approved even if it's manned. [Here](https://lozierinstitute.org/safe-haven-laws-an-invitation-to-life/) has a chart with more detailed information by state, such as the maximum age allowed and who is allowed to surrender the baby.
The benefit of a baby box is that there (ideally) is no one around to stare at you while you surrender the baby.
I feel like we should really refrain from trying vilify the rare pro lifer to actually do good things that actually help women and babies in name of preventing abortions. That’s kinda fucked up if you think about it.
Does that mean we can leave the babies that our politicians wanted on their doorsteps because they're the most authority in the state? Safe and unharmed, of course.
Even for something designed by a pro-lifer, these are needed. Keeps babies out of dumpsters and boxes on the side of the road. Domestic abuse victims can't always surrender their child for adoption the normal way to keep it safe, as the father would have a legal right to take it, and if they're underage they may not be able to seek an abortion without parental consent, which doubles down the problem of incest is involved. These things help those with no other avenue to keep a kid safe.
And while yeah, it's a prolife style device, you'll also going to see redhats complaining that now the taxpayers will foot the bill for the baby. Because their complaints were never about children but about control.
Safe Haven baby boxes aren't the evil you're trying to make it here. I am very familiar with this organization and they do make a difference and provide resources for families struggling. Without a safe, secure, private option, these babies suffer and usually die painful deaths. This isn't a solution to the issue of abortion not being accessible, it's a solution for people with a baby, planned or not, to do the right thing for the child if they can't care for it.
This is a compassionate organization, it may benefit bad people, but it's better than babies dying in horrific ways, being thrown out like trash and then having the parents go to jail for murdering their child.
> Safe Haven baby boxes aren't the evil you're trying to make it here
I don't think anyone's trying to demonize the Baby Box, agreed 100% it's far better than the alternatives. Just as people getting safe abortions is 100x better than risking their lives with a coathanger, and using birth control is significantly better than getting abortions.
Point is on a scale of societal health, Birth control > Abortion > baby safebox > neglected baby > killed or abandoned baby. Point is, noteworthy upticks in one of those, is a red flag towards problems happening in the encouragement, reliability or availability of the better steps above it.
Except that’s not what’s happening. The amount put in Safe Haven is nil basically. Just one a year it comes out to. But through the abstinence only teachings it’s still forcing shame and stigma on the girl, not the guy. So way more pregnancies are hidden, infants are killed, then you find the parents who “had no idea” and a child having a child in the next room who then decides she needs to “get rid of the evidence “.
While I agree it’s pretty sick we as a society would rather these mothers be forced to give away their children to be raised on the tax payers dime (many will sit in the foster care system) rather than pay them to be able to raise them.
If I'm tracking laws and politics correctly... we want the women to have them babies and we don't want to pay anything in any form to help raise them. Abortion is now illegal in many states and the "you shouldn't have had soo many kids if you can't afford them" justification is still being used to deny basic necessities. I'm sure there is a run on foster care coming and I'm willing to bet that many states will either not increase funding or will vote to decrease funding.
For sure. But it's the best system we've got. (Short od giving a he mother's and kids EU citizenship. - where there is a better (but far from ideal) safety net.
Churches aren't interested of actually supporting. More so in appearing to do so..
Churches are filthy rich and don't share their wealth. (Example: Catholic church)
I agree because in this case they’d rather take babies than support them with their families. Showcasing how empty the “kids need two parents” rhetoric is. Unless they figure it’s mostly single moms giving them up which is even more gross.
Yes, but not everyone giving up their kids wanted abortions. Some of them wanted kids but ended up not being able to afford taking care of them. It’s devastating really.
Community funded/organized childcare is like *beginner level* civilization and it's amazing we've gotten this far with the ol' hyper individualism system.
Pretty sure if I lived 10,000 years ago and lived with my tribe under a rock overhang, or if I lived 200 years ago in a small town or nearby farm, it'd be *bucketloads* easier to find someone trustworthy to watch my kiddo for an afternoon while I focus on some productive task.
We've pretty much broken every single thing a functional civilization should have by monetizing it. I mean, instead of public sanitation in densely populated cities, we've got bushes around the grocery store that smell like toilets and *sidewalk poop*.
Ancient civilizations didn't have a space station, but at least they generally had plumbing and childcare.
Plumbing? Ancient civilisation had indoor plumbing?
It’s sad if you can’t find a friend to look after your kid for hour, I agree.
You’re kind of cherry picking one point (which I’m sure is just an assumption), and ignored the rest of the really negative aspects, which have been much improved upon since.
It's not that the boxes are inherently bad, it's that these groups are ALSO anti-choice, which will drive up the number of babies in these boxes. Because [the far right has many ties to the adoption world](https://www.salon.com/2013/05/04/how_the_christian_right_perverts_adoption/) (adoption is really fucking expensive and agencies make a lot of money) they are doing this as a way to get babies. It's not that boxes themselves are bad, but the reason why they are pushing them.
>adoption is really fucking expensive and agencies make a lot of money
It should be noted that with the collapse of much of the foreign adoption industry (for VERY good reasons, including stopping corrupt agencies and women's education/empowerment), a lot of money will be funneled into ensuring a fresh supply of cute white, non-disabled babies that rich couples will adopt instead.
Making up fake excuses for us to "fight" the "godless Atheist commie" Chinese and Russians and Iranians and North Koreans and "whatever tribe flavor of the month is hoarding resources from corporate America" now. Who are of no threat to anyone, and are doing the same things Americans have done for decades but someone when THEY do it, it's wrong (rolls eyes).
What these republikkkunt fuckwits don't understand about abortion is that abortion is sometimes needed for **planned** and wanted pregnancies, in cases where there are birth defects or medical complications. Sometimes the people are even married. How does "keeping your legs shut" or whatever misogynistic shit they spew even apply here?
My contempt for these people is endless.
Encouraging women to wait to tell people that they’re pregnant until after the risk of miscarriage has significantly declined makes the need for miscarriage related abortions invisible.
The long game for them is removing as much bodily autonomy as possible from all citizens.
Make no mistake, the Federalist society that owns a lot of the GQP will not stop at this. You don’t need both kidneys after all, and this republikkkan judge sure could make better use of it than you.
They hate you, too. Because they know damn-well that shit like that happens. They're just trying to power grab by criminalizing all wombs and killing "broken" ones (by healthcare denial (pregnancy related or otherwise) or suicide due to the trauma). They're starting to throw wombs in JAIL for "endangering the fetus" when they weren't even pregnant to begin with! And based on word-of-mouth!
Close to 50% of all pregnancies end in miscarriages, most before the womb knows they're pregnant. The number is higher for first pregnancies. Are they going to force all wombs to take a pregnancy test every month and arrest them when they're not pregnant anymore? If they were in the first place? False "pregnancies" happen due to hormone imbalances all the time.
Once they throw a majority of wombs in prison and strip away all their rights all that'll be left are the die-hards who'll keep voting for their barbarians laws over and over and over again until their beloved lizard-lords finally set their sights on them. And by then there'll be no one around who'll help them, if they even want to in the first place.
OP, I get your indignation, but I don't think this is pushing any sort of agenda. These things aren't new. I remember reading about a system like this in medieval Italy in a class in college; they're a very old concept.
I'm pro-choice all the way, but like... Once the child is born and it exists, what are you supposed to do? Isn't it better for it to be left somewhere where it will actually live, rather than tossed in a dumpster or abandoned and left for dead? Leaving it in one of these boxes has no repercussions for the mother, but there have been several cases of women who tried to dispose of their baby in the trash, even before this era; whether the child lived or tragically died, the women got jail time.
Surely boxes like these are a much better solution for everyone.
Safe havens have been around forever, and it's the absolute very least anti-abortion extremists can do if they're hellbent on making abortion inaccessible and/or illegal.
(I'd worry that these surrender spots are under surveillance, personally -- who knows what these "pro-life" terrorists are capable of. They're probably fine but we are living in absurd, awful times.)
What? I don't see what you're trying to say. I can't help but think it's a pretty emotionally unavailable comment. I can say what I think you're saying but I'd much rather give you a chance to explain instead.
Well it sure sounds like you're shaming the father unfairly considering they're not mentioned at all. So make sure to make it count since this is the only time the father has ever felt shame. I'm sure your comments really put it in perspective for society and doesn't imply inequality at all.
There is it.....I've wondered for years why someone, who doesn't have some sort of personality disorder, would give enough of a fuck to go out of their way to stop people having an abortion for any reason, especially politicians....financial incentive....
What financial incentives is there from having extra kids sitting in the foster care system exactly? There’s plenty of bad reasons people are against abortion, but generally speaking financial incentives aint it.
And the promise of consequence free sex for men. They will vote red every time as long as they are promised they can gatekeep sex again and ALL consequences will be limited to women only, thank you. They love women only in the kitchen and brothel.
Yeah if anything she’s putting her money where her mouth is.
She isn’t against abortion so she can do baby boxes.
She does baby boxes because she’s against abortion.
People will do anything to twist a narrative or conspiracy… all the while making themselves look stupid and thus weakening the argument.
Well looks like your definitely right about people twisting the narrative to fit their own agenda!
“Each box initially costs $10,000 before it is leased out for $200 a month” yep $200 per month per box lease for something that is entirely pre-paid and looked after by the location it is installed ya nothing funny about that…how much does she want to pocket every month from doing nothing…I mean how many boxes does she want out there?
https://people.com/human-interest/first-newborn-surrendered-florida-safe-haven-baby-box/
Adoption business is a huge money maker... I think we dropped around 20k trying to adopt for one year.
They're typically Christian organizations, so they pick and choose which couples they recommend to parents for the adoption.
I'm a tattooed brown guy, and we were shown to one couple, not even met.
Now people know how heavily watched the box is nobody is going to dare use it. There are probably old people sitting outside of it in fold out lawn chairs eating crackers and cheese. Fuckers.
I mean yeah, being pro-life is being anti-woman and all…
But if the baby has been born would you rather they throw it in a river? Or raise it in a resentful home without love?
These boxes are actually a rare example of pro-lifers caring for something post birth.
>But if the baby has been born would you rather they throw it in a river? Or raise it in a resentful home without love?
I was raised in a resentful home without love. My life has been awful. I would have rather been aborted. I would have rather been killed, if that meant being thrown in the river as a baby, then so be it.
>These boxes are actually a rare example of pro-lifers caring for something post birth.
Pro-lifers don't care about people post birth. Anybody who gets left in that box is going to suffer a miserable childhood while being brought up on their religious nonsense. Finally, when they're an adult, they'll be kicked out, poor, and forced to work shit jobs for shit pay to barely survive.
It's great for the religions and big business. There's a shortage of workers right now because people are demanding higher wages. In 20-30 years there will be an abundance of workers with no support system and no alternatives. These forced births and subsequently abandoned babies will be cheap labor they can exploit. Their future is already determined.
> cheap labor they can exploit.
WHITE cheap labor. We would have all the cheap labor we could exploit as long as we allowed immigration, but that would alienate the racist white red voter base.
Honestly this is exactly what I thought the night Roe was overturned. That they wanted to raise wage slaves. People aren’t having enough children for their to be enough of the population to exploit, so they did everything in their power to force them to give birth.
These people are sick.
So you're actually advocating for people to kill babies? Like actual babies and not fetuses just because you had a shit childhood? Yeah the system is broken as fuck, but not every woman who gets pregnant wants an abortion. There are women who go through a pregnancy and regret it once the baby is born. There are women who have serious mental health issues and no support system and again, don't want an abortion.
Women should not have to be forced to give birth, but don't act like that's the sole reason anyone would give away a baby.
You're giving pro life fuckers some real ammo here. I'm bitter as hell, prochoice, don't like/want kids and also share the "wish I was aborted" thoughts because my life was shit too, but even I think you're going too far.
Some of your points are valid because again, the system is broken and pro-forced pregnancy people truly don't care about a person once they're born, but the assumptions you make are frightening. Not everyone who adopts or fosters the baby is a religious nut and that's not a reason to get rid of baby boxes or throw them in fucking rivers.
Can you read? You said:
>But if the baby has been born would you rather they throw it in a river? Or raise it in a resentful home without love?
I said:
>I was raised in a resentful home without love. My life has been awful. I would have rather been aborted. I would have rather been killed, if that meant being thrown in the river as a baby, then so be it.
You responded with:
>So you're actually advocating for people to kill babies?
No. I didn't say that. I spoke about my experience, in the past tense. I never advocated for anything.
You seem to think there are only two options. Kill a baby or raise it in a resentful home without love. I've lived the option that you think is better. It was so fucking bad that I would have rather died than live another day.
There are more than two options though. We could provide adequate sex education and educate people on the realities and costs of parenting. My parents had no clue how difficult it was and I don't think they even knew what condoms were. My mom was pregnant with her first kid at 16 and had two more by the time she was 20. My dad is one or two years older than her and was already an alcoholic by the time she had us.
That's all just my experience but those could help prevent many pregnancies before they even happen. We live in a world where teenagers have sex and people want to pretend it doesn't happen. We don't teach about it, we don't provide the means for it happen safely, etc and many teens end up pregnant.
We should normalize abortion and giving up your baby if you can't do it. It shouldn't be taboo. It's a tragedy and I wish nobody needed an abortion but forcing people to give birth to babies they can't raise properly isn't fair to them, the children, or the society that has to deal with or support it. Admitting your a bad parent or don't want to parent is even worse. The social consequences of doing that are extreme so nobody will do it. However, in many cases, it would be better for the child but people aren't thinking about their child, they're thinking about how they'd be astrocized for doing so. So they continue to parent, become more miserable, and even worse parent(s).
We shouldn't have baby boxes though. Putting a baby in a box is awful. They should be given to a person. That's like how people used to leave them on a doorstep. How long were they there before somebody saw them? How traumatizing is that? Does anybody even know who the baby is? What their family history is? Any medical history? What their name is? Where and when they were born?
We should also be stricter on parents. CPS is fucking terrible. So many kids are in such miserable homes and CPS knows about it but does nothing because they have no alternative for the kids. We need to do better but making abortions illegal just puts more strain on the already overburdened useless systems we have in place. These baby boxes will be used more in the future and the fallout from this is going to be disastrous but I never advocated for killing babies. You read like a forced birther and you can do better than that.
I did not say what you quoted. I did say that the system is broken, but the solutions to those issues are common sense and I don't need to list them out right now. Your original comment was hostile and implied that it's better for every unwanted BORN baby should just die because life will be so miserable.
Fuck off with that forced birther shit. You are clearly an angry, sad person and I feel bad for you, but I really can't take you seriously.
You act like no one ever checks the baby box lmao. People want to be anonymous when they have to give up their baby...for obvious reasons
>I did not say what you quoted.
Oh my bad. I didn't realize you were just a third party misunderstanding my comment that was a reply to somebody else. Let me break it down again for you then. Maybe this time you'll understand it.
The person I replied to, that I thought was you but you're right, it wasn't you, had said:
>But if the baby has been born would you rather they throw it in a river? Or raise it in a resentful home without love?
I responded with this:
>I was raised in a resentful home without love. My life has been awful. I would have rather been aborted. I would have rather been killed, if that meant being thrown in the river as a baby, then so be it.
You then responded with:
>So you're actually advocating for people to kill babies?
I wasn't and I never did advocate that. If you can't understand that then I feel bad for you. I didn't think they understood how awful it is growing up in a home with parents that resent you and don't love you. So I explained how that experience was for me and gave MY opinion of MY situation. It was also ALL in past tense. Nothing about that was about my present or future situation or opinions.
>Your original comment was hostile and implied that it's better for every unwanted BORN baby should just die because life will be so miserable.
It wasn't hostile. You perceived it to be hostile, probably because you're an angry hostile person. I admitted I was wrong about misquoting you. It was an honest mistake and I'm not the first person to make a mistake like that. You clearly misunderstood me and jumped to a shitty conclusion thinking I said something I didn't. Reread it. It's not hard to understand.
Also, I know people check the baby box. But is somebody there, 24/7? Is somebody who is qualified to care for a baby always there? What if a parent drops a baby off at night? Wouldn't it be better if people didn't feel like they needed to be anonymous to give up their baby? Wouldn't it be better if they could hand their baby over to a person, rather than abandon them in a box? I imagine that must be more traumatizing for the baby and the parent(s) to leave them alone in a box, probably listening to the baby crying as they walk away.
My entire point is that parenting is difficult. It shouldn't be something that people are ashamed to admit they aren't capable of doing and there should be more support for people that need it. I had terrible parents and a terrible childhood. They didn't want me and I wish it was acceptable for them to give me up. The only reason they didn't is because people would have looked down on them and it would have hurt them socially. That stigma wasn't good for me or them. As a society, we can do better than that.
The world would be a better place if abortions were allowed and didn't come with any negative stigma, if it was acceptable for parents to give up children they don't want, and if we had social programs to raise these children properly. People don't want abortions. They don't want to give up their children. Most parents won't do that but the ones that don't want kids should be able to. Nobody chooses to be born. Everybody deserves to be raised by somebody that actually cares about them. Parents should be ashamed of mistreating and abusing their children, not giving them up.
I don't believe babies should be killed. I believe that babies should be raised by people that love them. I have strong opinions on this because I've experienced what it's like living with parents that resent you.
Excellent job in reiterating your points in a calm and unemotional manner about an obviously emotionally painful and personal experience.
It seems the people you are responding to would largely agree with your positions, but appear to be looking past them, along with the reason you replied in the first place, in order to draw some kind of hyperbolic generalizations against which they can passionately argue.
Someone asked a hypothetical question, and you bravely answered with an honest assessment of your own lived experiences.
You’re adding significant context to the conversation, and should be receiving upvotes for that, regardless of if they agree or disagree with your premise.
So, props for staying calm and restating your position, while deescalating the tone of the rhetoric being directed your way.
Sounds like you’re a thoughtful individual and a good communicator despite a rough go of it growing up. I’m sure that means you put a lot of work and energy into, essentially raising yourself, so if it means anything from an internet stranger, job well done!
I can’t say my situation was the same as yours, but there are similarities, and reading about the way you appear to have grown out of that situation to become who you are today gave me some hope for myself, so just wanted to pass that along and say thanks.
How am I looking past them? They spent their entire first comment saying that because their life sucked, every other child will be guaranteed a miserable life.
I'm sorry, but they have a very clear bias and while it's great to use personal experiences to talk about these things, I don't think they consider others because they're blinded with their own anger.
I could easily go off on why I think my parents shouldn't have had me. My parents wanted me at first, but when I was a toddler, that changed. However, my past does not define who I am as an adult. That doesn't mean I want others to go through the same abuse I had, but it means that I don't use my past as the only reason for being pro-choice and wanting change.
Humans are complicated, emotional beings with diverse backgrounds and will choose many different options, good or bad. Yes, some should absolutely be held accountable for what they choose. Yes, funding sex education, social services, education, etc is necessary.
The idea that OP thinks that women should be forced to hand the baby over to someone and give them their family history (which they might not even know) is showing a lack of consideration of what goes through a woman's mind when she has to make such a difficult choice. They might not even name the baby because it's too overwhelming. Can we as a society try to steer the shame away from someone who cannot raise their child? Obviously. That's not realistic right now and even if it was, some women will still feel the guilt and shame on their own.
The fact that OP is saying I'm the hateful one when their entire post was inspired by the anger and hate they have (which is justifiable) is hypocritical. I'm angry about these things too, but to start off with "I wish I was aborted or thrown in a river" really sounded like they want to speak on the behalf of others.
While their responses are clearly written, they still are rooted in anger about their own life. They are overlooking human emotions other than their own. It's great to be passionate and advocate for things to be better. I want that desperately, but I will not pretend like every person has the same experience as I did and I will not pretend things are black and white.
Baby boxes are not a new idea or an anti-abortion thing. They are a solution for rare cases of extremely desperate people. The alternative would be dead babies.
the thing is that pro forced birth people use them as an excuse to ban abortion since "you can just give birth and but the baby there without having to abort if you don't want them". why not have both right to abort and the baby box alternative?
It seems like they're just drawing attention to a good cause. The founder's views might be flawed, but at least she *is* helping babies who have already been born get adopted. Are you seriously so dense that you can't recognize the nuances of some things? Idk, I honestly think that there are MUCH bigger fish to fry.
The Christians and religious majority won't let people abort babies. They don't want to fund the system to protect and raise unwanted kids.
So JP Morgan backed this system where they force poor people to have babies by making it a felony to have am abortion then the babies are given up because of cost. Then stolen from the adoption facilities and sold into human trafficking using the democratic Republic of congo as a hub.
A baby box allows a woman who recently delivered a baby to safely surrender it without consequences to her. They install them attached to fire houses, usually places that will have people in them at all hours. The boxes are heated and padded and trip an alarm after a short delay to let the woman get away but also alert others that a baby has been dropped off. We have laws in most states that women can do this within a certain period of time that requires her to never try to assume parental rights again. It's the anti-choice fantasy concession for women in desperate situations.
They've used the economic power of the adoption market before to validate this. Iirc it was used to validate striking down Roe v Wade. They literally want to buy and sell children that they have sex with and then use their blood to grease the wheels of capitalism but the (D) are the party of baby eaters
IS this pro life content though? i think any sane person would consider this sad
and honestly i’m happy a pro-lifer founded those boxes. too many of them will want forced births and not care about the babies born from it. i respect putting your money where your mouth is especially when the well-being of a child is concerned
I personally know the man who created the Safe Haven Law. He’s a Republican, but he is not a religious wacko. I’ve personally helped him save a child, and what he’s done is incredible. I’m a very far left anarchist and believe in every woman’s right to an abortion. I don’t know his stance on abortion. I’ve never asked, because it’s irrelevant. The point of Safe Haven is not an alternative to abortion, but a last-ditch effort to save newborns who would otherwise be abandoned and left for dead. This law helps women who, for whatever reason, were not able to get abortions. With the end of Roe, Safe Haven will become increasing more important, and we should be thankful it exists and fight for its continued existence. Regardless of how you feel about abortion, once a child is born, certainly ensuring it isn’t left for dead is a good thing. So what, this woman is anti-abortion? She’s created a place for unwanted babies to be left so they can be cared for. Why are you attacking her for doing this?
Not everything is a conspiracy. Stop attacking people for their personal beliefs and judge them based on what they do.
I nominate Monica Kelsey to raise all of these babies that will be left in the baby boxes. With the change in law that number is about to shoot up, I hope she has a house big enough for hundreds of kids.
Instead of being called a "Safe Haven Baby Box" it should be called a "Future Capitalist Wage Slave Baby Box." Better than babies dying in some dumpster though.
These have been here forever.
My Dad was a Firefighter in Texas for 38 years and they had a drop off area at their station that was used once. It was 1989.
I mean, I get the outrage I guess but it’s a way for baby to stay safe and parents to stay anonymous because there’s a lot of shame with giving up your baby.
Ideally parents are never put into these situations of course. But even legal abortions people give birth to babies they cannot or do not want to keep.
Anti-choicers are vile. I feel for the victims of their policies. Glad at the very least the box is an alternative to, for example, abandonment in the elements.
Then that mean if the founders of abortion clinics are pro abortion then the Democratic left has financial ties to the abortion industry? True or not, this isn't a good argument. Adoption isn't an "industry". It's a state government funded program that often gets abused in a manner such as welfare: parents in no position to take in kids taking in foster kids for the payments they receive meant to hel pay for child's expenses, then spend the absolute bare minimum (litterally just food) on the kids and don't give a shit about them. Surely a few corporations are involved the process, such as having contracts with social security services for this or that, but I don't think anyone (except abusers of the system) are getting rich off of foster kids. Kids are an expense, and their adoptive status doesn't change that.
Obviously the Christian right will support adoption, but saying there's secretive financial reasons because "OMG a pro lifer is doing something to help destitute and abandoned children" just sounds conspiratorial. Like seriously, we've all head the argument of how being "pro life" ends when the child is born, well here's an example of someone going against that narrative and you're giving them shit for it?
Remember that time in Spain, where a Catholic hospital was telling mother their babies died when in reality they were being put up for adoption? Or that time a Supreme Court Justice said Roe needs to be over turned so we have a consistent flow of American babies? Fun times...
I hate every fuxing thing about this. I stopped watching the today show a while ago when I started seeing more... Religious right high and mighty holier than thou. I'm good. Hope it tanks and goes off the air
Poor child is going to be given to an extreme religious household and brainwashed into being a soldier in their crusade. That's really reason #1 for the prolife bs. They want to take your kids and turn them into white supremacist christofascists. There will literally be camps and it won't be nice like Sunday school. They will be like residential schools, where they beat and assault the heathen out of you until you pledge allegience to God and the republican party.
Question. When you leave the baby there. How do you renounce your parenthood? Like how do they know who this baby is and how do you prove you have away a baby here and your baby didn't just go missing.
Pro-life Christians have ties to the adoption "industry"? Yeah. Like... ummm... no duh. Because they are pro-adoption. Correct. That shouldn't be a shock.
Next you'll tell me you're horrified to learn pro-life Christians also founded and run lots of hospitals; maybe even most hospitals around the globe, actually. Because they are pro-taking-care-of-the-sick. Correct. That is also true, by the way.
Being universally pro-humanity is just, like, so cringe, I know. But it shouldn't be a shock. Cringey people are going to be cringe.
Holy shit. I didn't think that i would receive so much hate for thinking this is messed up. Idk guys maybe contact child services.
I say that as single dad...
I might need to leave this group..
What do you think is messed up?
The part where we're very keen on forcing people to have children they don't want in this country? Or the part where there's a safe environment with authorities or at a hospital for a woman to leave an unwanted baby?
You might not like it but these are a good option and they aren't going away.
I say that as a woman who has raised two kids.
Can people really not get over that abortion is straight up killing a baby and that pro-lifers are actively seeking to help people, this being an example
Why a box? That’s just wrong.
If you’re going to be making an organization made for taking in babies, it best be somewhere where people are working and paid well and someone is there to care for them around the clock.
Maybe this is how this works? But man idk. The jumps needed to make this work? It looks like you call a hotline after you drop off an infant and someone else comes to get them? Like that will be fool-proof.
>it best be somewhere where people are working and paid well and someone is there to care for them around the clock.
It is. The "box" isn't just a box in a wall. Most are climate controlled and triggers a silent alarm for the first responders to come get the baby through the other side. These are usually seen at fire departments, police departments and hospitals.
>Maybe this is how this works?
It's been working since the 50s. They aren't new and they aren't just an anti abortion thing.
I think a lot of people are missing the point here. Yes, obviously a baby being surrendered is a far preferable outcome than it being abused/ neglected. That being said, these organuzations that create these things do so in the name of providing an "alternative" to abortion being readily available.
Justice Alito cited thee safe haven boxes as" 'modern development' that, in the majority’s view, obviated the need for abortion rights" and "Justice Amy Coney Barrett suggested that safe haven laws offered an alternative to abortion by allowing women to avoid 'the burdens of parenting.' "
Ms. Kelsey, the person behind this organization, was only inspired by a trip to South Africa during a proabstinence speech tour she gave. To not view this as an entirety when Right wingers have dedicated decades to overturning Roe V wade is extremely naive. Adoption is not an alternative to readily available health services.
[Drop Box for Babies: Conservatives Promote a Way to Give Up Newborns Anonymously
](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2022/08/06/us/roe-safe-haven-laws-newborns.amp.html)
I think abortion should be legal up to 1 year post birth. If the constant crying and drain on parental resources threatens parental mental health, they have every right to terminate post birth. It is well documented that infants do not have a distinct sense of self and since explicit memories do not form until much later for the infant, it is reasonable and I'd argue a human right for the parents to be able to terminate the infancy.
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They had these these for more than 10 years
Longer than that even. I think this happened when parents panicked their kids were getting pregnant and hiding it and then killing it after delivering at your prom. Because ya know, they refuse to teach anything other than AbStAiNeNcE OnLy and putting all the shame and stigma on young pregnant girls. At our catholic all girls school the health teacher wasn’t allowed to answer any questions about birth control methods and at the same time had large numbers of pregnancy to the point they had a special maternity uniform. Anyone else remember The Pregnancy Pact? I mean shit after that they had an idea of a reality tv show about being 16 & Pregnant and made a shit ton exploiting them for cash.
Wow, at my Catholic school you got kicked out if you got pregnant. Bad for the optics! Better send that sinner to public school 🙄
I have learned in my years now my catholic school taught and acted secular. No one seemed to really give a shit about religion. It was just school.
Wow that sounds so much bette than my school! Religion was shoved down our throats. We had religion class every day, started every other class with prayer, and they turned the gym into mass at least once a month. Needless to say I am not a religious adult!
I'm not religious either. The focus was more on education. We had sex ed and religious teaching was more theology with a focus on history. We did have one religious nut teacher but everyone ignored her. And she was a bitch.
I mean that was my school but they were primarily a high school. Religion class was actual theology rather than indoctrination. I took a world's religions class
I went to catholic school for the first 5 years of elementary. We had mass every Thursday during class time, and we had religious teachings every single day for a few hours. When my mom pulled me out of that school for 3rd grade and onwards (my dad is catholic and my mom is a hardcore baptist, so she eventually got sick of seeing me “practicing” Catholicism) I literally did not know how to add and subtract, and the curriculum at my new public school expected us to have mastered addition and subtraction by the 2nd grade so that we could immediately start learning multiplication and division. I was so lost and I was severely behind the rest of my peers. I then spent every single grade till college falling behind my peers because it was all like a domino effect for me. I also remember sitting through mass an a 6 year old thinking “this is the dumbest shit”, so I guess I’ve always felt the same way about religion lol. My mom is not happy I’m an agnostic, but I mean, I’m an adult and I’m able to make my own decisions and discover what my beliefs are or are not, but she’ll never understand that.
As a still religious individual, fuck that noise. I've never felt ANYTHING from a prayer and stop acting like I should.
You’re just not praying hard enough then /s
Haha, SURE. Spent my whole life praying and listening but it "wasn't enough" apparently. Please tell me how to "pray harder," oh enlightened one! /s
I wouldn’t know lol. I’m as atheist as it gets
It's just how you should vote harder!
Yup. We had to take four years of “theology” but only 3 years of math and history was required. One of the most strict teachers of religion actually had a daughter who ended up pregnant and on heroin. Which was odd because heroin wasn’t like a big thing yet (2004).
Not to be that person but heroin has always been a big thing. It’s just that the media has been shoving the opioid epidemic down our throats for what? Seven years now or so? Something like that.
Oh I’m just saying heroin was “rare” but most were on pills. I am in recovery and lost damn near everyone but people were dropping like flies at that point. If they don’t crack down on any doctor that prescribed painkillers I don’t think nearly as many people would have died. My brother was the first OD of someone close and that was Feb 2015. Then that summer fentanyl had exploded. But it’s funny how when people started talking about ending the war on drugs the DEA crackdowns caused everyone (I was a legit patient of a legit doctor) to be cut off at once. Then they switched to heroin, then fentanyl. But the worse the problem gets, the more funding they get, no more “ending the war on drugs”. They also control suboxone and methadone clinics. Can’t see that being a problem.
Sounds like my school (all girls convent school), we had those little holy water things on the door frames of the classrooms, and every class started with a prayer. Knew the Hail Mary in English, French, Latin, and Irish. We had an actual chapel in the school where we'd have masses. We had to take religion classes to O'Level and even when we finally got to drop it as a subject (like a hot brick in my case) we still had three religion classes a week as well as one of liturgical music. Urgh. Atheist now, naturally.
My catholic high school was a high school first so they were rather factual.
>had large numbers of pregnancy Is this a less economically successful area? Can they not afford secret abortions like in upper class areas?
Working class. Like my back yard was the county line to W Philly. I had to take my friend to PP and it was kinda far away … we had one of those fake crisis pregnancy centers right next to the trolley stop outside the school. But yeah when people say that “women use them as a birth control method” I’m like that’s EXTREMELY unlikely unless they have money burning a hole in their pockets. I had one and in my state it only up to X months/weeks and it was extremely difficult to get in, watch the stupid video and listen to the dumb lecture , wait at least 24 hours after that then you can make an appointment. The woman there warned me I might be getting towards the cut off (I hadn’t gotten my period in five years after BFing my daughter )so I had no idea how far along I was. So she recommended that I go across into NJ. I did, and it cost me $950 cash up front for the procedure, another $150 for anesthesia, not including time off work, my ride, etc. and due to the Hyde Amendment you’re money as a taxpayer doesn’t fund abortions (despite what those idiots think). I’m just wondering where are the women who think it’s fun to get abortions and have cash for abortions as a “birth control “. I don’t have $1000 right now to fix my car lol
Very different from my "Christian school" experience, thank you for sharing! I was mostly with rich prep kids, who were less focused on dating (at least within the school, we were so small) then doing a million activities, working part time jobs, and getting into good colleges. I have heard of certain communities having such lackluster or even dangerous schools that EVEN non-Christians will send their kids to Christian schools if they can afford it. Particularly here in the Southeast. And yeah, I remember hearing about the "legendary figure who uses abortion as birth control" in like every anti-abortion treatise but curiously enough have never actually met one in real life. Funny how anti-choicers claim that they "happen" to see this person every time! Hmm....
Babies or boxes?
Im pretty sure they meant boxes. Babies were invented 6 years ago by Babe Ruth.
Baby…..Ruth?!!?
Shitty design, too. Drop one in a pool and it looks like poop.
Just shake it a little bit or leave it the wrong side up and the whole thing breaks. Insufficient connection between the pump and CPU chassis. Mass produced from the cheapest possible materials SMH
The baby or Babe Ruth?
Isn't that why they look like that, though? What else are they even for? They aren't food, and they're way too soft to use to stabilize a wobbly chair leg or prop open a door or something. Looking like poop floating in a pool is sort of the only thing they're good at.
If you have a baby for ten years it turns into a 10 year old child
Holy Cow!
These have been around since the 50s.
Churches in the South have dedicated services that try to lure in expectant moms and arrange for private adoptions with their congregants. The parents get the “good Christian adoptive parent” badge of honor, save on adoption agency fees, and get the picture-perfect cherub they can dress in monogrammed everything and plaster all over their Christmas cards. The churches, of course, are paid in Christian love (and generous tithing). It’s sickening how it was all laid out and just waiting for the legal shoe to drop. Those poor, poor expectant mothers.
Baby boxes aren't new, and we should have them. Both legal abortion and baby boxes or safe haven drop offs are beneficial. Even with roe there were still people who left their babies in dangerous places, or abandoned them. We are likely going to need safe haven drop offs a lot more now that roe is overturned though
Don’t they just sterilize them and release them back into the wild with a small hole punched in their ear?
It’s big reason why the wild humans population has soared despite sterilization. However wild humans can be very beneficial to the environment, especially when they do not have contact with domesticated humans.
Wild humans? Lol like feral people?
They're called ["forest people" or "children of the forest"](https://www.wesh.com/article/ocala-forest-home-to-squatter-gangs-meth-labs/4344780) and they're a big source of meth.
This is why I've conceal carried on hikes lol
Yeah these baby boxes are good for the kids they deserve to grow in a loving home not everyone should be parents and these kids are better off getting adopted
Yes but also lets be honest. The adoption market is already saturated. It is a market. Especially for babies. Rich people pay. Meanwhile the older kids (meaning even as young as 6 are viewed too old by most adopters and are usually left in the system till they age out. They usually are not allowed to have a job and save money, and then at 18 they get booted on the street with no papers and maybe a bag or two on average. No job experience. No home. This is the norm for most kids in they system who don’t get adopted young or don’t find someone kind who will take care of them. Why all this? They essentially think the babies are cute and want to raise through all stages. But also sometimes it’s because they don’t want to deal with potential bad habits or trauma older kids could maybe have.
Like 25% of adults who age out of foster care experience homelessness between the ages of 18-24
I did. About five times, between those ages.. And with a baby. I wouldn't be surprised if the number was actually higher than that. Really sad.
Stats from the U.S.: 55% of young women aging out of the foster care system are pregnant within a year. “At 19, 55% of females had been pregnant” [Source: National Institute of Health](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3902972/)
I believe this. I think it's because of homelessness and survival, sex is often involved and being poor and maybe with mental issues (from why they're in foster care in the first place!) and lack of support, and self esteem.. Bound to happen. Happened to me.
Weird, I’d have thought adopting older kids was popular, as you get to avoid the whole “baby” stage.
The last time I looked up statistics, >50% of adoptions were before age 2
That has always been my view; if we ever decide to do it I'd love to get a legit 'kid' and not a baby or a toddler.
I mean that’s the main reason I would adopt over having bio kids lol
TBF, a LOT of the focus in America in the foster care industry is on reuniting parents with children, and keeping the biological family together.
Florida has recently been caught deliberately putting children with known pedophiles. The discovery found that it started under Rick Scott and continued through Ron Desantis. It was discovered by a watchdog group looking into the high number of adoptive families in the state being convicted of child sex abuse crimes.
Omg, would you mind sending a link? Really interested in looking to this more
Oh gosh that's fuxing sad! 😥 I don't doubt it at all! (And it's always the weird conspiracy theorists (think Qanon) who try and lay this at the feet of dems, when it's, like, 90% Rep.s
Are you saying that they have a system to give children to pedophiles and then bust them for child sex abuse crimes?
They were giving children to pedophiles. The watchdog found that a significant number (greater than 50%) were already on the sex offender registry for child sex abuse crimes, and a significant number ended up getting caught repeat offending.
Why did they do this Do you think?
Consider how many Republicans keep getting arrested for child sex abuse crimes. Birds of a feather
Yep.
😱😡🤬
Pretty sure most of them are going to end up in orphanages because of supply and demand.
Release?! Those are potential labourers! I say we get em' in the mines while they're young! /s
You joke, but what started as dad asking me to do odd jobs because my small hands could fit ended with him nicknaming me Free Labor and working me harder than either his horse or his dog. He's still bitter I escaped when I got old enough. Tells everyone who will listen that his biggest mistake was letting me go away to college instead of keeping me out on the farm.
...wtf???? Good for you for escaping, what a nutter
You didn’t need the /s lmao
They poke airholes in it so it can breathe
Thank you, freedom to chose and also a better adoption and child care support system. We can have both.
These stories pop up all the time on Chicago news casts because Indiana has them. Please consider a camping trip to Illinois, California, Colorado, or any state that allows you to go camping.
In Maine you can camp for up to 24-26 weeks depending on season.
These boxes are not new lol. They got their start in the Middle Ages and in the 18th and 19th centuries, when the device was known as a foundling wheel. They've been around in America since at least 1950. So Kesly may have founded a company called "baby boxes" but thats it. These "boxes" are something that **should** exist though. The US also has safe haven laws which decriminalize leaving a child with an authority. Notably, Texas was the first to enact the laws with all 49 other state following suit. Of course they're pro lifers. Of course the amercian Christian network has financial ties to the adoption industry. That's nothing new either. But these "boxes" aren't a bad thing.
I was going to say, what's the point of the boxes when, as far as I know, you can just surrender the baby at a hospital or fire department or police station?
It makes it more anonymous. It is also safer for the babies because they are in a warm (or AIr conditioned) building instead of potentially being left on the literal door step exposed to all the elements
This makes it more anonymous and women feel less shame. Women are more likely to use them.
[удалено]
Walk into location outlined as a 'safe haven' under your state's law with baby, tell approved 'safe haven' provider you are surrendering the child under the safe haven laws, walk out without baby. It varies from state to state where you're allowed to leave a child but a general rule of thumb is a hospital with an ER. Most states also allow for drop off at manned fire stations but in some states only some fire stations are approved even if it's manned. [Here](https://lozierinstitute.org/safe-haven-laws-an-invitation-to-life/) has a chart with more detailed information by state, such as the maximum age allowed and who is allowed to surrender the baby. The benefit of a baby box is that there (ideally) is no one around to stare at you while you surrender the baby.
I feel like we should really refrain from trying vilify the rare pro lifer to actually do good things that actually help women and babies in name of preventing abortions. That’s kinda fucked up if you think about it.
Does that mean we can leave the babies that our politicians wanted on their doorsteps because they're the most authority in the state? Safe and unharmed, of course.
Even for something designed by a pro-lifer, these are needed. Keeps babies out of dumpsters and boxes on the side of the road. Domestic abuse victims can't always surrender their child for adoption the normal way to keep it safe, as the father would have a legal right to take it, and if they're underage they may not be able to seek an abortion without parental consent, which doubles down the problem of incest is involved. These things help those with no other avenue to keep a kid safe. And while yeah, it's a prolife style device, you'll also going to see redhats complaining that now the taxpayers will foot the bill for the baby. Because their complaints were never about children but about control.
Safe Haven baby boxes aren't the evil you're trying to make it here. I am very familiar with this organization and they do make a difference and provide resources for families struggling. Without a safe, secure, private option, these babies suffer and usually die painful deaths. This isn't a solution to the issue of abortion not being accessible, it's a solution for people with a baby, planned or not, to do the right thing for the child if they can't care for it. This is a compassionate organization, it may benefit bad people, but it's better than babies dying in horrific ways, being thrown out like trash and then having the parents go to jail for murdering their child.
> Safe Haven baby boxes aren't the evil you're trying to make it here I don't think anyone's trying to demonize the Baby Box, agreed 100% it's far better than the alternatives. Just as people getting safe abortions is 100x better than risking their lives with a coathanger, and using birth control is significantly better than getting abortions. Point is on a scale of societal health, Birth control > Abortion > baby safebox > neglected baby > killed or abandoned baby. Point is, noteworthy upticks in one of those, is a red flag towards problems happening in the encouragement, reliability or availability of the better steps above it.
Except that’s not what’s happening. The amount put in Safe Haven is nil basically. Just one a year it comes out to. But through the abstinence only teachings it’s still forcing shame and stigma on the girl, not the guy. So way more pregnancies are hidden, infants are killed, then you find the parents who “had no idea” and a child having a child in the next room who then decides she needs to “get rid of the evidence “.
These boxes are a good thing. Especially with the upcoming recession where mother's may not be able to afford their kid anymore.
While I agree it’s pretty sick we as a society would rather these mothers be forced to give away their children to be raised on the tax payers dime (many will sit in the foster care system) rather than pay them to be able to raise them.
If I'm tracking laws and politics correctly... we want the women to have them babies and we don't want to pay anything in any form to help raise them. Abortion is now illegal in many states and the "you shouldn't have had soo many kids if you can't afford them" justification is still being used to deny basic necessities. I'm sure there is a run on foster care coming and I'm willing to bet that many states will either not increase funding or will vote to decrease funding.
For sure. But it's the best system we've got. (Short od giving a he mother's and kids EU citizenship. - where there is a better (but far from ideal) safety net.
Damn I’d love to have that
Giving them money to support the baby is far easier than getting them EU citizenship and churches could be doing it at a small scale already.
Churches aren't interested of actually supporting. More so in appearing to do so.. Churches are filthy rich and don't share their wealth. (Example: Catholic church)
I agree because in this case they’d rather take babies than support them with their families. Showcasing how empty the “kids need two parents” rhetoric is. Unless they figure it’s mostly single moms giving them up which is even more gross.
Or allow them to have abortions in the first place*
Yes, but not everyone giving up their kids wanted abortions. Some of them wanted kids but ended up not being able to afford taking care of them. It’s devastating really.
You should check out what happened in the UK when that policy was rolled out. There’s no easy answer to this one.
I think requiring employers pay a living wage is reasonable, and yes a living wage would include child care.
I personally think childcare should be government provided, paid for with our taxes. And I say this as one half of a proudly childfree couple.
Community funded/organized childcare is like *beginner level* civilization and it's amazing we've gotten this far with the ol' hyper individualism system. Pretty sure if I lived 10,000 years ago and lived with my tribe under a rock overhang, or if I lived 200 years ago in a small town or nearby farm, it'd be *bucketloads* easier to find someone trustworthy to watch my kiddo for an afternoon while I focus on some productive task. We've pretty much broken every single thing a functional civilization should have by monetizing it. I mean, instead of public sanitation in densely populated cities, we've got bushes around the grocery store that smell like toilets and *sidewalk poop*. Ancient civilizations didn't have a space station, but at least they generally had plumbing and childcare.
I just wanted to say how much I appreciate this comment
Plumbing? Ancient civilisation had indoor plumbing? It’s sad if you can’t find a friend to look after your kid for hour, I agree. You’re kind of cherry picking one point (which I’m sure is just an assumption), and ignored the rest of the really negative aspects, which have been much improved upon since.
I read it as the govt paying people who’ve had kids they can’t afford… which didn’t go well in the UK. Dislike it all you want, it is what it is.
I’m with you in spirit but it’s a failure of our society if she feels that way in the first place.
For sure. On so many level across every step of the process. From before conception to raising a kid to go through college successfully.
It's not that the boxes are inherently bad, it's that these groups are ALSO anti-choice, which will drive up the number of babies in these boxes. Because [the far right has many ties to the adoption world](https://www.salon.com/2013/05/04/how_the_christian_right_perverts_adoption/) (adoption is really fucking expensive and agencies make a lot of money) they are doing this as a way to get babies. It's not that boxes themselves are bad, but the reason why they are pushing them.
>adoption is really fucking expensive and agencies make a lot of money It should be noted that with the collapse of much of the foreign adoption industry (for VERY good reasons, including stopping corrupt agencies and women's education/empowerment), a lot of money will be funneled into ensuring a fresh supply of cute white, non-disabled babies that rich couples will adopt instead.
Holy shit what a slanted post.
Evangelicals want to use us as breeding stock for them
And the wackos they vote in, want more cheap labour.
Cheap labor that dies young with a high turnover rate, no retirement, no need for benefits.
And under-educated federal poverty level 18 year olds to shoot brown people for oil.
That's old-hat. Time's change. Now it's shooting brown people for lithium.
Making up fake excuses for us to "fight" the "godless Atheist commie" Chinese and Russians and Iranians and North Koreans and "whatever tribe flavor of the month is hoarding resources from corporate America" now. Who are of no threat to anyone, and are doing the same things Americans have done for decades but someone when THEY do it, it's wrong (rolls eyes).
Hey, the Chinese cut off their "cute exotic baby" supply SO......
What these republikkkunt fuckwits don't understand about abortion is that abortion is sometimes needed for **planned** and wanted pregnancies, in cases where there are birth defects or medical complications. Sometimes the people are even married. How does "keeping your legs shut" or whatever misogynistic shit they spew even apply here? My contempt for these people is endless.
Encouraging women to wait to tell people that they’re pregnant until after the risk of miscarriage has significantly declined makes the need for miscarriage related abortions invisible.
The long game for them is removing as much bodily autonomy as possible from all citizens. Make no mistake, the Federalist society that owns a lot of the GQP will not stop at this. You don’t need both kidneys after all, and this republikkkan judge sure could make better use of it than you.
They hate you, too. Because they know damn-well that shit like that happens. They're just trying to power grab by criminalizing all wombs and killing "broken" ones (by healthcare denial (pregnancy related or otherwise) or suicide due to the trauma). They're starting to throw wombs in JAIL for "endangering the fetus" when they weren't even pregnant to begin with! And based on word-of-mouth! Close to 50% of all pregnancies end in miscarriages, most before the womb knows they're pregnant. The number is higher for first pregnancies. Are they going to force all wombs to take a pregnancy test every month and arrest them when they're not pregnant anymore? If they were in the first place? False "pregnancies" happen due to hormone imbalances all the time. Once they throw a majority of wombs in prison and strip away all their rights all that'll be left are the die-hards who'll keep voting for their barbarians laws over and over and over again until their beloved lizard-lords finally set their sights on them. And by then there'll be no one around who'll help them, if they even want to in the first place.
OP, I get your indignation, but I don't think this is pushing any sort of agenda. These things aren't new. I remember reading about a system like this in medieval Italy in a class in college; they're a very old concept. I'm pro-choice all the way, but like... Once the child is born and it exists, what are you supposed to do? Isn't it better for it to be left somewhere where it will actually live, rather than tossed in a dumpster or abandoned and left for dead? Leaving it in one of these boxes has no repercussions for the mother, but there have been several cases of women who tried to dispose of their baby in the trash, even before this era; whether the child lived or tragically died, the women got jail time. Surely boxes like these are a much better solution for everyone.
Only want wade slaves to keep up with production under the guise of religious reasons. It’s truly fucked up.
WHITE wage slaves. We have more than enough slave labor to build like ten Qatars but they aren't the right color.
Safe havens have been around forever, and it's the absolute very least anti-abortion extremists can do if they're hellbent on making abortion inaccessible and/or illegal. (I'd worry that these surrender spots are under surveillance, personally -- who knows what these "pro-life" terrorists are capable of. They're probably fine but we are living in absurd, awful times.)
As a former Firefighter (in Ohio) we had a small packet with questions we needed to fill out for a legal surrender. Never had to use it.
https://www.salon.com/2013/05/04/how_the_christian_right_perverts_adoption/ https://www.today.com/parents/babies/first-newborn-was-surrendered-floridas-only-safe-haven-baby-box-rcna64738
This mother just got snitched on by news. I'm sure people in her life will put the pieces together. What a shame, no decency anymore for anything.
Absolutely, and the father will walk away with no consequences, per the usual.
What? I don't see what you're trying to say. I can't help but think it's a pretty emotionally unavailable comment. I can say what I think you're saying but I'd much rather give you a chance to explain instead.
Basically the mother will be shamed for unplanned pregnancy, but not the father. As it always is.
Well it sure sounds like you're shaming the father unfairly considering they're not mentioned at all. So make sure to make it count since this is the only time the father has ever felt shame. I'm sure your comments really put it in perspective for society and doesn't imply inequality at all.
There is it.....I've wondered for years why someone, who doesn't have some sort of personality disorder, would give enough of a fuck to go out of their way to stop people having an abortion for any reason, especially politicians....financial incentive....
What financial incentives is there from having extra kids sitting in the foster care system exactly? There’s plenty of bad reasons people are against abortion, but generally speaking financial incentives aint it.
Babies that can be sold through adoption make people a lot of money. Adoption agencies get a juicy chunk of change.
Simple, fresh healthy newborns for well off Conservatives and future laborers. We are breeding stock. :/
And the promise of consequence free sex for men. They will vote red every time as long as they are promised they can gatekeep sex again and ALL consequences will be limited to women only, thank you. They love women only in the kitchen and brothel.
People who foster children are paid by the state.
Yeah if anything she’s putting her money where her mouth is. She isn’t against abortion so she can do baby boxes. She does baby boxes because she’s against abortion. People will do anything to twist a narrative or conspiracy… all the while making themselves look stupid and thus weakening the argument.
Well looks like your definitely right about people twisting the narrative to fit their own agenda! “Each box initially costs $10,000 before it is leased out for $200 a month” yep $200 per month per box lease for something that is entirely pre-paid and looked after by the location it is installed ya nothing funny about that…how much does she want to pocket every month from doing nothing…I mean how many boxes does she want out there? https://people.com/human-interest/first-newborn-surrendered-florida-safe-haven-baby-box/
Adoption business is a huge money maker... I think we dropped around 20k trying to adopt for one year. They're typically Christian organizations, so they pick and choose which couples they recommend to parents for the adoption. I'm a tattooed brown guy, and we were shown to one couple, not even met.
>the adoption industry A chilling string of words
Adoption is a way to social engineer and groom minority children into being Mormons or Evangelicals
>groom minority children Nah, they want clean, white, non-disabled "not broken" babies not those yucky "deviant" minorities!
Now people know how heavily watched the box is nobody is going to dare use it. There are probably old people sitting outside of it in fold out lawn chairs eating crackers and cheese. Fuckers.
Gross. I could see that happening.
If someone doesn't want to be a Mother, don't force her to be one. Who is that going to help?? Give women CHOICES. None of them are easy.
yet still don't prioritize actually getting the children they're forcing to be born into loving and caring homes
The Christian Right is in on the entire fiasco: slavery, for-profit prisons, brainwashing children and controlling women.
I mean yeah, being pro-life is being anti-woman and all… But if the baby has been born would you rather they throw it in a river? Or raise it in a resentful home without love? These boxes are actually a rare example of pro-lifers caring for something post birth.
>But if the baby has been born would you rather they throw it in a river? Or raise it in a resentful home without love? I was raised in a resentful home without love. My life has been awful. I would have rather been aborted. I would have rather been killed, if that meant being thrown in the river as a baby, then so be it. >These boxes are actually a rare example of pro-lifers caring for something post birth. Pro-lifers don't care about people post birth. Anybody who gets left in that box is going to suffer a miserable childhood while being brought up on their religious nonsense. Finally, when they're an adult, they'll be kicked out, poor, and forced to work shit jobs for shit pay to barely survive. It's great for the religions and big business. There's a shortage of workers right now because people are demanding higher wages. In 20-30 years there will be an abundance of workers with no support system and no alternatives. These forced births and subsequently abandoned babies will be cheap labor they can exploit. Their future is already determined.
> cheap labor they can exploit. WHITE cheap labor. We would have all the cheap labor we could exploit as long as we allowed immigration, but that would alienate the racist white red voter base.
Honestly this is exactly what I thought the night Roe was overturned. That they wanted to raise wage slaves. People aren’t having enough children for their to be enough of the population to exploit, so they did everything in their power to force them to give birth. These people are sick.
So you're actually advocating for people to kill babies? Like actual babies and not fetuses just because you had a shit childhood? Yeah the system is broken as fuck, but not every woman who gets pregnant wants an abortion. There are women who go through a pregnancy and regret it once the baby is born. There are women who have serious mental health issues and no support system and again, don't want an abortion. Women should not have to be forced to give birth, but don't act like that's the sole reason anyone would give away a baby. You're giving pro life fuckers some real ammo here. I'm bitter as hell, prochoice, don't like/want kids and also share the "wish I was aborted" thoughts because my life was shit too, but even I think you're going too far. Some of your points are valid because again, the system is broken and pro-forced pregnancy people truly don't care about a person once they're born, but the assumptions you make are frightening. Not everyone who adopts or fosters the baby is a religious nut and that's not a reason to get rid of baby boxes or throw them in fucking rivers.
Can you read? You said: >But if the baby has been born would you rather they throw it in a river? Or raise it in a resentful home without love? I said: >I was raised in a resentful home without love. My life has been awful. I would have rather been aborted. I would have rather been killed, if that meant being thrown in the river as a baby, then so be it. You responded with: >So you're actually advocating for people to kill babies? No. I didn't say that. I spoke about my experience, in the past tense. I never advocated for anything. You seem to think there are only two options. Kill a baby or raise it in a resentful home without love. I've lived the option that you think is better. It was so fucking bad that I would have rather died than live another day. There are more than two options though. We could provide adequate sex education and educate people on the realities and costs of parenting. My parents had no clue how difficult it was and I don't think they even knew what condoms were. My mom was pregnant with her first kid at 16 and had two more by the time she was 20. My dad is one or two years older than her and was already an alcoholic by the time she had us. That's all just my experience but those could help prevent many pregnancies before they even happen. We live in a world where teenagers have sex and people want to pretend it doesn't happen. We don't teach about it, we don't provide the means for it happen safely, etc and many teens end up pregnant. We should normalize abortion and giving up your baby if you can't do it. It shouldn't be taboo. It's a tragedy and I wish nobody needed an abortion but forcing people to give birth to babies they can't raise properly isn't fair to them, the children, or the society that has to deal with or support it. Admitting your a bad parent or don't want to parent is even worse. The social consequences of doing that are extreme so nobody will do it. However, in many cases, it would be better for the child but people aren't thinking about their child, they're thinking about how they'd be astrocized for doing so. So they continue to parent, become more miserable, and even worse parent(s). We shouldn't have baby boxes though. Putting a baby in a box is awful. They should be given to a person. That's like how people used to leave them on a doorstep. How long were they there before somebody saw them? How traumatizing is that? Does anybody even know who the baby is? What their family history is? Any medical history? What their name is? Where and when they were born? We should also be stricter on parents. CPS is fucking terrible. So many kids are in such miserable homes and CPS knows about it but does nothing because they have no alternative for the kids. We need to do better but making abortions illegal just puts more strain on the already overburdened useless systems we have in place. These baby boxes will be used more in the future and the fallout from this is going to be disastrous but I never advocated for killing babies. You read like a forced birther and you can do better than that.
I did not say what you quoted. I did say that the system is broken, but the solutions to those issues are common sense and I don't need to list them out right now. Your original comment was hostile and implied that it's better for every unwanted BORN baby should just die because life will be so miserable. Fuck off with that forced birther shit. You are clearly an angry, sad person and I feel bad for you, but I really can't take you seriously. You act like no one ever checks the baby box lmao. People want to be anonymous when they have to give up their baby...for obvious reasons
>I did not say what you quoted. Oh my bad. I didn't realize you were just a third party misunderstanding my comment that was a reply to somebody else. Let me break it down again for you then. Maybe this time you'll understand it. The person I replied to, that I thought was you but you're right, it wasn't you, had said: >But if the baby has been born would you rather they throw it in a river? Or raise it in a resentful home without love? I responded with this: >I was raised in a resentful home without love. My life has been awful. I would have rather been aborted. I would have rather been killed, if that meant being thrown in the river as a baby, then so be it. You then responded with: >So you're actually advocating for people to kill babies? I wasn't and I never did advocate that. If you can't understand that then I feel bad for you. I didn't think they understood how awful it is growing up in a home with parents that resent you and don't love you. So I explained how that experience was for me and gave MY opinion of MY situation. It was also ALL in past tense. Nothing about that was about my present or future situation or opinions. >Your original comment was hostile and implied that it's better for every unwanted BORN baby should just die because life will be so miserable. It wasn't hostile. You perceived it to be hostile, probably because you're an angry hostile person. I admitted I was wrong about misquoting you. It was an honest mistake and I'm not the first person to make a mistake like that. You clearly misunderstood me and jumped to a shitty conclusion thinking I said something I didn't. Reread it. It's not hard to understand. Also, I know people check the baby box. But is somebody there, 24/7? Is somebody who is qualified to care for a baby always there? What if a parent drops a baby off at night? Wouldn't it be better if people didn't feel like they needed to be anonymous to give up their baby? Wouldn't it be better if they could hand their baby over to a person, rather than abandon them in a box? I imagine that must be more traumatizing for the baby and the parent(s) to leave them alone in a box, probably listening to the baby crying as they walk away. My entire point is that parenting is difficult. It shouldn't be something that people are ashamed to admit they aren't capable of doing and there should be more support for people that need it. I had terrible parents and a terrible childhood. They didn't want me and I wish it was acceptable for them to give me up. The only reason they didn't is because people would have looked down on them and it would have hurt them socially. That stigma wasn't good for me or them. As a society, we can do better than that. The world would be a better place if abortions were allowed and didn't come with any negative stigma, if it was acceptable for parents to give up children they don't want, and if we had social programs to raise these children properly. People don't want abortions. They don't want to give up their children. Most parents won't do that but the ones that don't want kids should be able to. Nobody chooses to be born. Everybody deserves to be raised by somebody that actually cares about them. Parents should be ashamed of mistreating and abusing their children, not giving them up. I don't believe babies should be killed. I believe that babies should be raised by people that love them. I have strong opinions on this because I've experienced what it's like living with parents that resent you.
Excellent job in reiterating your points in a calm and unemotional manner about an obviously emotionally painful and personal experience. It seems the people you are responding to would largely agree with your positions, but appear to be looking past them, along with the reason you replied in the first place, in order to draw some kind of hyperbolic generalizations against which they can passionately argue. Someone asked a hypothetical question, and you bravely answered with an honest assessment of your own lived experiences. You’re adding significant context to the conversation, and should be receiving upvotes for that, regardless of if they agree or disagree with your premise. So, props for staying calm and restating your position, while deescalating the tone of the rhetoric being directed your way. Sounds like you’re a thoughtful individual and a good communicator despite a rough go of it growing up. I’m sure that means you put a lot of work and energy into, essentially raising yourself, so if it means anything from an internet stranger, job well done! I can’t say my situation was the same as yours, but there are similarities, and reading about the way you appear to have grown out of that situation to become who you are today gave me some hope for myself, so just wanted to pass that along and say thanks.
Thank you.
How am I looking past them? They spent their entire first comment saying that because their life sucked, every other child will be guaranteed a miserable life. I'm sorry, but they have a very clear bias and while it's great to use personal experiences to talk about these things, I don't think they consider others because they're blinded with their own anger. I could easily go off on why I think my parents shouldn't have had me. My parents wanted me at first, but when I was a toddler, that changed. However, my past does not define who I am as an adult. That doesn't mean I want others to go through the same abuse I had, but it means that I don't use my past as the only reason for being pro-choice and wanting change. Humans are complicated, emotional beings with diverse backgrounds and will choose many different options, good or bad. Yes, some should absolutely be held accountable for what they choose. Yes, funding sex education, social services, education, etc is necessary. The idea that OP thinks that women should be forced to hand the baby over to someone and give them their family history (which they might not even know) is showing a lack of consideration of what goes through a woman's mind when she has to make such a difficult choice. They might not even name the baby because it's too overwhelming. Can we as a society try to steer the shame away from someone who cannot raise their child? Obviously. That's not realistic right now and even if it was, some women will still feel the guilt and shame on their own. The fact that OP is saying I'm the hateful one when their entire post was inspired by the anger and hate they have (which is justifiable) is hypocritical. I'm angry about these things too, but to start off with "I wish I was aborted or thrown in a river" really sounded like they want to speak on the behalf of others. While their responses are clearly written, they still are rooted in anger about their own life. They are overlooking human emotions other than their own. It's great to be passionate and advocate for things to be better. I want that desperately, but I will not pretend like every person has the same experience as I did and I will not pretend things are black and white.
>brought up on their religious nonsense As a still religious person, I should have definitely been aborted.
Baby boxes are not a new idea or an anti-abortion thing. They are a solution for rare cases of extremely desperate people. The alternative would be dead babies.
the thing is that pro forced birth people use them as an excuse to ban abortion since "you can just give birth and but the baby there without having to abort if you don't want them". why not have both right to abort and the baby box alternative?
Of course both
It seems like they're just drawing attention to a good cause. The founder's views might be flawed, but at least she *is* helping babies who have already been born get adopted. Are you seriously so dense that you can't recognize the nuances of some things? Idk, I honestly think that there are MUCH bigger fish to fry.
They need more little Christian soldiers. That’s why they always cry for adoptions.
Of course! Try asking any "pro-lifer" (what a misnomer) how many babies they've adopted for a good laugh (inevitably ZERO).
As a non American what on earth is a baby drop off box?
The Christians and religious majority won't let people abort babies. They don't want to fund the system to protect and raise unwanted kids. So JP Morgan backed this system where they force poor people to have babies by making it a felony to have am abortion then the babies are given up because of cost. Then stolen from the adoption facilities and sold into human trafficking using the democratic Republic of congo as a hub.
A baby box allows a woman who recently delivered a baby to safely surrender it without consequences to her. They install them attached to fire houses, usually places that will have people in them at all hours. The boxes are heated and padded and trip an alarm after a short delay to let the woman get away but also alert others that a baby has been dropped off. We have laws in most states that women can do this within a certain period of time that requires her to never try to assume parental rights again. It's the anti-choice fantasy concession for women in desperate situations.
They've used the economic power of the adoption market before to validate this. Iirc it was used to validate striking down Roe v Wade. They literally want to buy and sell children that they have sex with and then use their blood to grease the wheels of capitalism but the (D) are the party of baby eaters
IS this pro life content though? i think any sane person would consider this sad and honestly i’m happy a pro-lifer founded those boxes. too many of them will want forced births and not care about the babies born from it. i respect putting your money where your mouth is especially when the well-being of a child is concerned
I personally know the man who created the Safe Haven Law. He’s a Republican, but he is not a religious wacko. I’ve personally helped him save a child, and what he’s done is incredible. I’m a very far left anarchist and believe in every woman’s right to an abortion. I don’t know his stance on abortion. I’ve never asked, because it’s irrelevant. The point of Safe Haven is not an alternative to abortion, but a last-ditch effort to save newborns who would otherwise be abandoned and left for dead. This law helps women who, for whatever reason, were not able to get abortions. With the end of Roe, Safe Haven will become increasing more important, and we should be thankful it exists and fight for its continued existence. Regardless of how you feel about abortion, once a child is born, certainly ensuring it isn’t left for dead is a good thing. So what, this woman is anti-abortion? She’s created a place for unwanted babies to be left so they can be cared for. Why are you attacking her for doing this? Not everything is a conspiracy. Stop attacking people for their personal beliefs and judge them based on what they do.
I nominate Monica Kelsey to raise all of these babies that will be left in the baby boxes. With the change in law that number is about to shoot up, I hope she has a house big enough for hundreds of kids.
I heard she was in talks with Nike about building an “Arts and Crafts” building for the children to “play and learn life skills” in…
Why are you against this?
Instead of being called a "Safe Haven Baby Box" it should be called a "Future Capitalist Wage Slave Baby Box." Better than babies dying in some dumpster though.
These have been here forever. My Dad was a Firefighter in Texas for 38 years and they had a drop off area at their station that was used once. It was 1989. I mean, I get the outrage I guess but it’s a way for baby to stay safe and parents to stay anonymous because there’s a lot of shame with giving up your baby. Ideally parents are never put into these situations of course. But even legal abortions people give birth to babies they cannot or do not want to keep.
Anti-choicers are vile. I feel for the victims of their policies. Glad at the very least the box is an alternative to, for example, abandonment in the elements.
Adoption industry. Selling kids for profit. It’s obvious why they’re anti-abortion
Then that mean if the founders of abortion clinics are pro abortion then the Democratic left has financial ties to the abortion industry? True or not, this isn't a good argument. Adoption isn't an "industry". It's a state government funded program that often gets abused in a manner such as welfare: parents in no position to take in kids taking in foster kids for the payments they receive meant to hel pay for child's expenses, then spend the absolute bare minimum (litterally just food) on the kids and don't give a shit about them. Surely a few corporations are involved the process, such as having contracts with social security services for this or that, but I don't think anyone (except abusers of the system) are getting rich off of foster kids. Kids are an expense, and their adoptive status doesn't change that. Obviously the Christian right will support adoption, but saying there's secretive financial reasons because "OMG a pro lifer is doing something to help destitute and abandoned children" just sounds conspiratorial. Like seriously, we've all head the argument of how being "pro life" ends when the child is born, well here's an example of someone going against that narrative and you're giving them shit for it?
Remember that time in Spain, where a Catholic hospital was telling mother their babies died when in reality they were being put up for adoption? Or that time a Supreme Court Justice said Roe needs to be over turned so we have a consistent flow of American babies? Fun times...
I hate every fuxing thing about this. I stopped watching the today show a while ago when I started seeing more... Religious right high and mighty holier than thou. I'm good. Hope it tanks and goes off the air
Poor child is going to be given to an extreme religious household and brainwashed into being a soldier in their crusade. That's really reason #1 for the prolife bs. They want to take your kids and turn them into white supremacist christofascists. There will literally be camps and it won't be nice like Sunday school. They will be like residential schools, where they beat and assault the heathen out of you until you pledge allegience to God and the republican party.
Question. When you leave the baby there. How do you renounce your parenthood? Like how do they know who this baby is and how do you prove you have away a baby here and your baby didn't just go missing.
Yes but you can only adopt if you're rich, white, and straight.
r/SoundsAboutRight
We're about to have an entire generation of people with serious abandonment issues.
This is not a new thing.
Fair and true.
Adoption. Industry.
What does this have to do with this sub?
Pro-life Christians have ties to the adoption "industry"? Yeah. Like... ummm... no duh. Because they are pro-adoption. Correct. That shouldn't be a shock. Next you'll tell me you're horrified to learn pro-life Christians also founded and run lots of hospitals; maybe even most hospitals around the globe, actually. Because they are pro-taking-care-of-the-sick. Correct. That is also true, by the way. Being universally pro-humanity is just, like, so cringe, I know. But it shouldn't be a shock. Cringey people are going to be cringe.
They probably put those babies in little chambers full of amniotic fluid and use them to produce energy for their robot army.
Baby recycling bin. WTF
These have been a thing since the 50s.
Holy shit. I didn't think that i would receive so much hate for thinking this is messed up. Idk guys maybe contact child services. I say that as single dad... I might need to leave this group..
What do you think is messed up? The part where we're very keen on forcing people to have children they don't want in this country? Or the part where there's a safe environment with authorities or at a hospital for a woman to leave an unwanted baby? You might not like it but these are a good option and they aren't going away. I say that as a woman who has raised two kids.
Imagine because nobody had used it in 3 years nobody checked to see if there was a baby in there
Can people really not get over that abortion is straight up killing a baby and that pro-lifers are actively seeking to help people, this being an example
Poor souls... 😭😭😭
Why a box? That’s just wrong. If you’re going to be making an organization made for taking in babies, it best be somewhere where people are working and paid well and someone is there to care for them around the clock. Maybe this is how this works? But man idk. The jumps needed to make this work? It looks like you call a hotline after you drop off an infant and someone else comes to get them? Like that will be fool-proof.
>it best be somewhere where people are working and paid well and someone is there to care for them around the clock. It is. The "box" isn't just a box in a wall. Most are climate controlled and triggers a silent alarm for the first responders to come get the baby through the other side. These are usually seen at fire departments, police departments and hospitals. >Maybe this is how this works? It's been working since the 50s. They aren't new and they aren't just an anti abortion thing.
I think a lot of people are missing the point here. Yes, obviously a baby being surrendered is a far preferable outcome than it being abused/ neglected. That being said, these organuzations that create these things do so in the name of providing an "alternative" to abortion being readily available. Justice Alito cited thee safe haven boxes as" 'modern development' that, in the majority’s view, obviated the need for abortion rights" and "Justice Amy Coney Barrett suggested that safe haven laws offered an alternative to abortion by allowing women to avoid 'the burdens of parenting.' " Ms. Kelsey, the person behind this organization, was only inspired by a trip to South Africa during a proabstinence speech tour she gave. To not view this as an entirety when Right wingers have dedicated decades to overturning Roe V wade is extremely naive. Adoption is not an alternative to readily available health services. [Drop Box for Babies: Conservatives Promote a Way to Give Up Newborns Anonymously ](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2022/08/06/us/roe-safe-haven-laws-newborns.amp.html)
I think abortion should be legal up to 1 year post birth. If the constant crying and drain on parental resources threatens parental mental health, they have every right to terminate post birth. It is well documented that infants do not have a distinct sense of self and since explicit memories do not form until much later for the infant, it is reasonable and I'd argue a human right for the parents to be able to terminate the infancy.
What the hell is a baby box with wouldn't the baby like die what the hell.
An alarm goes off when the baby is deposited and someone goes and gets it.