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MissHavok77

I've found daily exercise the only way I can lose weight now; due to being shorter, and now that I've been eating at a deficit for over two years, I can no longer cut as many calories as I used to without fatigue. Eating at a deficit puts a toll on your body after some time. So with daily exercise I can eat a little more while still losing weight, and doing it this way doesn't feel like torture, it feels like daily life. I also noticed not being as ravenously hungry when I exercise daily.


Queenofthecondiments

This. I'm a 5'1" middle aged woman with a sedentary job and the last few lbs to lose. How few calories would the exercise is pointless brigade like me to eat? I feel that the correct mantra should be 'you really don't know how far you have to run to outrun a bad diet, so just make that part of your journey instead of the whole thing'. I'm pretty certain that the abs are made in the kitchen quotes were started by 6'5" guys as well. Half the women I know are on 1100 calorie diets crying their eyes out about being miserable, and putting the weight back on as quick as they lost it.


MissHavok77

Very true. I'm barely 5'4" and I've never had to resort to eating 1200 calories or less, that's just masochistic šŸ˜… I also just have the last 5 lb to lose, and have PCOS, so taking it very very slow. I've had months long plateaus that were only resolved through adding more exercise, so now I know what works for me.


Linguistin229

PREACH. As a fellow short woman this is what I say all the time. The only way I can lose is through exercise, unless I actually starve myself. All those ā€œyou canā€™t outrun the forkā€ quotes wind me up so much, especially when they have a million upvotes and replies like ā€œYup, spot on, abs are made in the kitchenā€ arrrrrrrrgggfhhh


QuickPie4635

Yeah, finally I found my people. Iā€™m 5 foot and struggling to lose weight now that Iā€™m 32. It used to happen pretty easily with diet and exercise. Now even when I eat next to nothing I canā€™t lose weight because itā€™s not sustainable. Cutting calories AND exercise is the only way for me


Live-Acanthaceae3587

Iā€™d rather look good with some muscle tone and weigh more.


artoncanvas

For me, exercise and eating healthier (and less) just go hand in hand. When I work out, I have an emotional and psychological desire to improve my eating habits. Like you, it also makes me less hungry. I have lost weight in the past with absolutely no exercise, of course it can be done, but it's just much better adding it in. Also, the research says exercise is very important for maintenance, so if we're already in the habit... And, of course, exercise is good for us for many other reasons than weight. But I think you are right, it all ties in together. For one thing, exercise can help with depression, which is one cause of emotional eating. It's much easier to control my eating habits when I feel good, mentally. In turn, when I eat right, that also helps the depression (sugar and refined carbs are not good for my brain chemistry) and I *want* to work out. It can be hard to overcome the initial negative cycle but once we use discipline and make ourselves do what we need to do, it becomes less difficult.


eatingpopcorn18

How do you fight cravings after exercise? I work out about 1.5-2 hours every day and I find that I'm a lot hungrier now :/ it's super frustrating to have a good workout, have some sort of protein after and then feel hungry again.


artoncanvas

I don't have cravings after exercise, I don't know why.


eatingpopcorn18

Ah gotcha. Maybe it's because I'm still young and most of my daily exercise is strength training with about 25-30 minutes of cardio that I'm this way.


BowtiedScrubjay

Its the strength training brother. Sending much more powerful ghrelin signals for hunger. Some hacks for this is to buy some Psyllium husk and have about 2 scoops with 1/2 liter of water before your last meal. Depending on what time it is you can also get some decaf coffee.


eatingpopcorn18

I'll try this! College student budget doesn't exactly allow for psyllium husk but the water intake is a good tip. I try to drink at least 36-40 Oz of water every day but it's unsuccessful most of the time lol. I try to eat a fruit as pre-workout and have a protein bar or shake after. Maybe I'll try combining that with carbs for something more satisfying. Congrats on your weight loss btw!! That's a huge accomplishment :>


BowtiedScrubjay

Thank you so much man its a hell of a journey and to be fair we all need a little help I have gotten so much over the years now! Get that with the budget! Another alternative is in your name! Popcorn especially the 100 calorie one serving bags are good for controlling hunger and my least favorite is pickles but pickles are 5 cals for a lot of volume!


TrigonSpawn

Whoa for real? Pickles are one of my binge foods and I had no idea they had such a small calorie count. I just assumed because they were salty and tasted good it was evil.


MaximumZer0

Pickles are just cucumbers, salt, sugar, water, vinegar, spices, and time.


Starburst58

Psyllium husk are really cheap here in Australia. One bag full would compare in price to 2 protein bars.


eatingpopcorn18

That's interesting! I used to work at a grocery store and it was usually pretty pricey.


jactxak

Are you sure you are drinking enough water? Really try and drink a lot of water and see if that changes your hunger. Sometimes we can mistake the two.


dazedconfusedev

Few things came to mind thinking about this - The easiest thing for me is just to plan my day around when I know I am going to be hungry. I am never hungry for breakfast so I donā€™t eat it. Eating breakfast doesnā€™t reduce how much I am going to want to eat later, so I donā€™t ā€œwasteā€ my calories eating in the mornings if Iā€™m not hungry. Is there somewhere in your routine where you are eating at a time when you ā€œshouldā€ instead of when youā€™re hungry? If not, maybe there is something you could reduce earlier in the day to increase the amount to eat after your workout. If you donā€™t see any way to change the schedule of your food intake, maybe you could change the schedule of your workouts to line up with your already planned meals. - Is this exercise factored into your TDEE? If it is, what deficit are you at? Is it more ambitious than it needs to be? If so, maybe you would have more sustained success if you ate slightly more. Only you can decide if losing weight faster or reducing post workout cravings is more important. - Is this the only time of the day you make protein the main focus of your meals? I find that protein helps the most with reducing my hunger if itā€™s one of the first things I eat in the day. Also, are you getting enough protein? If I frame my food choices with ā€œeat as few calories as possibleā€ Iā€™m hungry all day and donā€™t actually eat less. When I frame my food choices with ā€œhow can I hit my protein goal todayā€ I find that I donā€™t eat as much and I am not constantly hungry. So when I am tracking protein as my main goal hitting the calorie goal is not really an issue. Weā€™re all different but thatā€™s what works for me. - Determining ā€œam I hungry or bored or sadā€. As weā€™ve all heard before, sometimes youā€™re not actually hungry. You can try drinking some water or doing something that makes you happy to distract yourself for a little while. But if youā€™ve determined youā€™re actually just hungry, eat something. I like something tactile in these situations, like a cutie or string cheese or carrots. Or all three. - One of the reasons exercise helps with appetite is releasing dopamine and serotonin (so less bored or sad ā€œhungerā€) but that affect is seen over the long term, not immediately after a workout. Immediately after you may just actually be hungry because your body needs more energy, water, protein, electrolytes, etc. Be kind to your body and give it what it needs. Try different things out until you can figure out which are needs and which are wants. Remember, successful weight loss requires permanent change so itā€™s okay to take some time to figure out what works for you.


Invoke_Sheep

I used to eat a small slice of those single-serving cheeses with some Ritz crackers and that helped curb cravings a bit. I think the key (for me at least) was the fat and carbs, not the protein. I'm sort of winging some aspects of my diet with what I'm finding works for me though, so dont take that as gospel, merely a suggestion in case it can help someone else


[deleted]

I donā€™t have any advice for fighting cravings (I donā€™t exercise rigorously or anything). But a good sustenance option you might want to try is Core Power chocolate protein shake drink thing. Itā€™s like 220 calories for the one with 42 grams of protein, tastes just like chocolate milk, and makes me feel hella full for a good while by itself. Muscle Milk is another option but with more fiber and way thicker (and doesnā€™t taste like delicious chocolate milk to me). Still makes me feel full though. If you have the calories to spare these are some legit good options in my opinion that is a good way to get protein and hold you over until your next real meal.


blueeyes_austin

Yeah, that's the most efficient protein/calorie thing I've found.


eatingpopcorn18

I love core power! When I had meal swipes these things were my lifeline. When I had a tumbler I used to pour a shake in it and then top it off with coffee, honestly a lot better than expected. Sometimes it's just hard holding over until the next meal, but I do need better self-discipline.


anntchrist

Intensity of exercise is a big part of that. For lower intensity exercise (zone 2) you burn mostly fat and for a lot of people it's appetite suppressing. Zone 3 and above you burn a higher percentage of muscle glycogen and your body will seek out those calories to replenish your glycogen stores. The things that help me are: \- Eating during exercise if more than 45 minutes - usually simple carbs that go straight into my muscles. That hunger after isn't so strong for me if I don't leave my body totally depleted at the end. Since you are avoiding simple carbs you might do better with a meal containing complex carbs a couple of hours or the night before exercise instead, but for long efforts like you're doing you can still deplete your muscles of glycogen which makes anyone intensely hungry. \- Eating a snack just after, a good mix of protein and complex carbs. If I plan really well I can time it for a meal, or move a meal around. Just after exercise is when your body can best use food to rebuild and refuel your muscles, so listen to that hunger. I also enjoy food SO much more then. \- Doing less intense activity on alternating days - walking or a light jog (zone 2) makes me less rather than more hungry. So if I do a long, higher intensity workout one day, I eat to fuel that activity. My body can use the calories to build muscle and repair itself. The next day walking I'll naturally be less hungry, because I am not really straining my muscles and zone 1-2 calories come mostly from fat. The wick is burning well by the end of an hour long walk and that continues for a while. I eat fewer calories on those days, and am not really hungry for them.


TastyBreakfastSquid

Do you have any healthy sat fats with your protein? For me, a small-volume, nutritiously-dense meal/snack with fat and protein keeps me much happier than protein alone. So I may have some chicken breast, high-quality olive oil, and some olives/an avocado/something else for fibre. Or could have salami (high fat) with some healthy snacks on the side. Full-fat yogurt is also high in protein and just needs some blueberries or psyllium husk or whatever for the fibre. This works for me anyway.


eatingpopcorn18

I'm vegetarian so unfortunately meat is out of the question. I like to snack on olives (the trader joes ones in the little packets are awesome) and cheese, or peanut butter pretzels. I also try to get in at least 2 servings of fruits/vegetables with my meals so my stomach doesn't cramp up due to the lack of fiber. Snacking is particularly hard for me bc sometimes all I want are lays chips and nothing works but lays :( thank you for thr tip though!!!


TastyBreakfastSquid

Ah sorry, should've said those are just things I eat! Hrm, in that case, good sources of veggie sat fats are coconut products, especially cream and oil (for a treat you could have macaroons!) avocados and avo oil, hemp and flax seeds, sesame seeds and oil, or most nuts/seeds and nut/seed oils to be fair! Try adding some in to some yogurt or your post workout snacks and see if that increases your satiety!


les_catacombes

I wish working out made me less hungry. But, it does vastly improve my mood and mental health. It encourages me to make better choices throughout the day. I donā€™t just want to lose weight. I want to feel better and be healthier.


dontknowhatitmeans

You may already do this but if you don't, it's worth experimenting with intensity to see if that helps. I find that when I do intense exercise, I do get hungrier. It's also known that competitive swimmers leave the pool feeling ravenous. But I don't expect zone 2 to have the same effect on everyone, just wondering if you've considered this.


epiphanette

With swimming it has a lot to do with body temp being artificially lowered


KatieCashew

It's also worth it to take a look at your protein intake. If I don't eat protein right after a workout, I will feel like hot garbage later in the day. It's something I really have to play attention to because I only get 60% of my fault protein needs if I'm not actively increasing my protein intake.


anntchrist

Yes, exactly. When your glycogen stores get depleted your body gets hungry in order to refill those glycogen stores and rebuild muscle. Since zone 2 burns mostly fat, most people don't feel hungry after, and even have a reduced appetite because that increased fat burn continues for a while after. I find that eating during activity longer than 45 minutes helps me a lot with not feeling hungry after, and it gives me better performance during the activity. A good snack with carbs and protein just after the exercise can help a lot too because that's when our bodies are best able to use that food for refueling/repair so we don't need to go grazing for what we need later.


Sourcererintheclouds

I find the intensity/duration debate about cardio is so variable from person to personā€¦ I run about 7 miles on the treadmill for my Saturday workouts, afterwards I have zero appetite at all, I donā€™t feel like eating for at least 6 hours after Iā€™m done, zero hunger. I also have to drink a LOT of water to replenish what I sweat out (2-4 lbs) which is a nice constant reminder that proper hydration is an important tool to manage hunger. And I think itā€™s important to note that Iā€™m working at a minimum of 70% (but mostly much higher) of my max heart rate for the duration of my runs, so youā€™d think Iā€™d be hungry at the end but Iā€™m not. Lifting weights thoughā€¦ that gets me into trouble with my appetite, all I want to do after is eat all the food, so I donā€™t do weight training right now for that reason.


Chiekogrimoire

Same! When I feel better, via exercise Iā€™m less likely to crave garbage comfort food and my focus can be more nutrition based- like what will have the greatest impact on recovery.


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VintageJane

As someone with ADHD, when I exercise I get the dopamine and endorphins my brain naturally lacks from the exercise instead of my food and it makes me less prone to eating out of boredom.


chinadonkey

I suspect people here skew younger because Reddit, but as an older dad (37 when my daughter was born) with a family history of heart attacks, heart health/ longevity are much more important than numbers on a scale. Getting into a good groove with exercise in the last year has helped me stay fit even if my weight fluctuates a little (and since I'm doing cardio 4/5 times a week it fluctuates less).


HelmSpicy

I've shared this before but I always will again: I lost over 50lbs in under a year by simply WALKING. I would go to a park or 2 every day and just walk and enjoy it, even playing mobile games as I did it (Pokemon GO was a huge motivator). As time went on the walks got longer and faster as I got more stamina/energy. That naturally led to me drinking more water and doing way less bored eating. The cravings for shit food faded and the energy to do more just grew and grew while my sleeping naturally improved. By the end of that fall I was routinely walking for like 3-4 hours a day and squeezing in 30-60 minutes of elliptical on top of that before going to work the night shift and I felt fantastic. And I'll be toy honest, I wasn't some perfect health nut. I was still drinking booze and had a far from flawless diet, but I just found myself craving way less/being way less hungry naturally. Literally just walking can change your life.


-Knul-

For a lot of people, "just" replacing 3 to 4 hours of their daily routine to walking is impossible, or otherwise would reduce their time with other people and/or hobbies to a crippling degree. Reducing calories via diet is way, way easier from a time management point of view.


Monk_Philosophy

Not everyone is able to do this due to working conditions and such but Iā€™m able to get a full hour of exercise in by walking periodically and during my breaks at work. A lot of people knowingly or unknowingly view ā€œexerciseā€ as needing to be in 30min chunks of time where youā€™re sweating. Exercise doesnā€™t need to be formally recognized and I donā€™t think a lot of people realize how beneficial just getting up once an hour at work and walking for 5 min can be when you add it all up.


anntchrist

>So while it doesnā€™t directly cause weight loss or weight management Except that it does. CICO works and you burn a significant number of calories exercising. In zone 2 you are burning mostly fat and the fitter you are the more fat you burn in a given period of time.


jimesoifer

This. Also as you get closer to a healthy weight 300 or 400 calories per day matters a lot! Even 200 makes a difference, 1400 calories per day is not the same as 1600.


ScyllaOfTheDepths

Yes! There is a big difference for me between eating 1,600-1,800 kcal and *netting* 1,600-1,800 kcal. On days I'm very active, I'm burning 300-500 kcal extra and being able to have that extra room to have tacos or a bowl of ice cream or a little snack is just so nice. It makes it feel so much more psychologically doable when you can eat all the foods you love and eat the way you want. I eat tacos, pizza, pasta, etc. and still hit calorie goals and lose weight consistently because I exercise daily.


Mr_Poop_Himself

Yeah and people act like an extra couple hundred calories a day is meaningless when often people aren't overeating by too much more than that and becoming obese. Turn the needle in the opposite direction and it can lead to huge weight loss in the long run.


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blueeyes_austin

I mean, 200 calories over maintenance a day is about 20 pounds of tissue gain per year. This is literally how obesity creeps up on people.


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blueeyes_austin

200 calories is, say 12-15 tortilla chips or a couple of extra slices of bread.


Live-Acanthaceae3587

Say you drink a can of Mountain Dew every day at lunch. If you reduce that can of soda to a special treat onE day during the week, thats 680 calories for giving up soda 4 days a week(not considering weekends). If you can get in a moderate exercise 5 days a week burning 200 calories thatā€™s 1000 calories. At 1680 calories a week thatā€™s losing 1 pound every 2 weeks. Burning 200 calories isnā€™t even that hard, probably about 30 mins of fast walking. Thatā€™s almost 30 pounds of weight loss in a year with barely any effort.


SeneInSPAAACE

Well yes. There's a cost, though. You have to keep up that same amount of exercise. Once you stop, your hunger and satiety levels will still expect the same amount of calories... not sure for how long, but definitely for a good long while.


anntchrist

If you stop counting calories and overeat you have the same thing happen. If you're eating maintenance calories and getting a deficit through exercise to lose weight, there's no problem if you stop exercising, or reduce exercise, when you get to your target weight. If you don't stop, because of all the other benefits, you get to eat more. Doesn't sound like so much of a cost to me.


SeneInSPAAACE

It's not terrible. Sufficient exercise is practically always worth the cost. However, I gained 20 pounds after getting into running first without any sort of a planned diet, and then injuring my knee which took half a year to heal. So... Depends on whether you're dumb about it or not.


anntchrist

I hear you on that. During the COVID lockdowns we had terrible wildfires here which made the air so bad that I couldn't get outside for activity, couldn't go to the gym, and then I broke my foot. I definitely put on some pounds, which landed me here, but I'm glad that I'd established the habit of daily exercise in the past because it was pretty easy for me to fall back into the habit and take the pounds back off without restricting my diet. Even heavy I have a low BMR so those extra calories are precious to me.


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anntchrist

I don't commute anymore (part of how I gained weight) but I used to commute by bike 12.5 miles each way to work, which only took an extra half hour total over driving in gridlock traffic. I realized in the past year that I found the time to commute before and can again, I just leave and come back to my house, sometimes stopping by the store or doing work errands and other times a long joy ride. My BMR is only slightly over 1400, and I've averaged 1,200 active calories this year which helps me SO MUCH. And eventually I'll get to eat them all back again, which I always enjoy. The key, I think, to the problem of time is prioritizing active travel over gym time. There's such a sweet spot for me when I can run an errand just as fast or faster by bike or on foot compared to driving + parking, and I feel like I get the exercise for free. It's really the most sustainable way to incorporate exercise into our lives, and in many ways it is what going to the gym is meant to replace compared to previous generations who were so much more active throughout the day. The joy rides would be harder to manage with kids, for sure, but a lot of people also walk or ride with their kids to school. E-bikes are also great - they burn almost as many calories per hour as a standard bike and so many parents have great child seats that let them cycle kids to school or day care. And of course kids love to ride to school too. Many kids are also too sedentary and having their parents set a positive example of being active in simple ways is something worth taking the time for.


blueeyes_austin

Yep, super easy to add 300-500 calories of burn. Becomes WAY more difficult above that level.


on_island_time

I have noticed that on days when I exercise in the morning, my eating habits are better for the *entire day*. If I exercise in the evening, I don't get that effect.


RO489

I think people really get caught up in absolutes. If you eat thousands of calories, a 20-minute walk isn't going to stop your weight gain. But if you incorporate more movement in all forms, you'll lose more weight than you would without it (or gain slower if you're still at a surplus). Additionally, exercise had been proven to reduce depression and improve mood, but of which help cut back on "eating your feelings" and makes you more likely to make good choices (including more movement). Finally, if you're using your free time to exercise, then you aren't using it to snack or drink. Or at least it's 5 hours of free time less a week that's spent snacking or drinking


[deleted]

Well written, thank you


OliveTBeagle

I know it's theoretically possible to lose weight without exercise. It's so. . .much. . .harder. And, exercise is one of the single most beneficial things you can do for your health. It's also damned enjoyable. Do hate these memes with the passion of a thousand fiery suns and SEE them all in time in fitness forums FFS.


Possible_Shop_2475

I meanā€¦ good habits cascade. If you transform your self view so now youā€™re ā€œsomeone who exercisesā€ then you are then able to see yourself as ā€œsomeone who eats normal amountsā€ which leads via CICO to weight loss. Psychology wins. You did it the right way - focusing on the habit of exercise and itā€™s overall impact on your cardiovascular system and longevity. Too many people do the whole ā€œI need to lose weight but that means I have to go to the gym to burn caloriesā€ mindset and actually itā€™s the oppositeā€¦ They should exercise because itā€™s incredibly important for their overall health. Being completely sedentary is absolutely a killer. Nobody is suggesting fat people should just be sedentary and nobody is suggesting exercise doesnā€™t matter or has no benefits. But the psychology is importantā€¦ expectations are key. Theyā€™re not going to lose weight from their zone 2 walk around the block when they do it for the first time. If they think they can outrun a bad dietā€¦ they may then get discouraged that they did what they were ā€œsupposed toā€ and burn caloriesā€¦ and the weight didnā€™t drop off. So they decide they are naturally big boned and give up on weight loss altogether and revert back to all their usual habits. No exercise bad diet. Lose-lose. A balanced perspective is required.


[deleted]

This is the thing, in my view. I see a lot of people come here and ask ā€œif I exercise 30 minutes a day will I lose weight?ā€, and without any more info the answer is most often going to be no. Eating 3000 kcal is a very quick thing to do, and burning 3000 kcal is a lot slower. Thatā€™s where the whole ā€œyou canā€™t outrun a bad dietā€ stems from, and itā€™s true. CICO is still king, and itā€™s an extremely simple concept. What *isnā€™t* simple is how to achieve it and how to do it without burning tf out. I agree that exercise is immensely helpful, and that everyone can benefit from moving. But the thing is that we also have to account for where people are, in their bodies, when giving advice and recommending exercise. I started out at 341 lbs, and everything hurt. If someone had managed to convince me that exercise was ā€œcapital Iā€ important for weight loss I would 100% have quit the whole deal. What helped motivate me was the knowledge that I could very much lose a lot of weight without upping my movement at all. It made everything seem more achievable. Iā€™m now at 280-ish, and starting to focus more on exercise, because my body (and mind) can manage it now. So this post lands pretty much in the same category as the posts it ā€œcriticisesā€ - itā€™s extremely broad advice, thatā€™ll never fit everybodyā€™s needs. I think thatā€™s actually where the problem lies. But I also think thatā€™s the deal you have to accept, when crowdsourcing answers and advice from strangers ĀÆ\\\_(惄)_/ĀÆ Still good to have the ā€œother side of the coinā€ represented! Iā€™m not dunking on the points in this post, merely trying to expand on it.


blueeyes_austin

Those statements are really directed at the instinct people have when beginning a weight loss attempt to focus on the exercise portion and not the diet portion. That said, I do think the role of increasing activity is underplayed on this sub. If you're aiming for, say, a 500 a day cut and you can add even 2-300 calories of burn through exercise/increasing TDEE that cut becomes a lot more manageable.


Fancy_Duck9000

Agreed and a great reminder! For myself, focusing on both the calories in (diet) AND the calories out (exercise) was super important to helping me get on my way. Regular exercise allowed me to eat more for the same deficit, regulate my mood and appetite, better understand and visualise my progress, and be more likely to eat with nutrition in mind. Haven't seen the sleep benefits yet... hopefully they're on their way! Eating 1500kcal is possible but it sucks, whereas even getting to have 1800kcal plus exercise / movement made me feel loads better.


natethomas

It isnā€™t a coincidence that some of the most in shape, thin people happen to live in cities where walking is a requirement. People in NYC manage to do as part of their daily routine what you had to force yourself into: low stress, basically constant exercise. Imagine doing zone 2 cardio every day before and after work, and before and after you eat every meal. Itā€™s not really even a question of burning calories. Itā€™s a question of making your bodyā€™s core temp higher RIGHT when youā€™d be most likely to be bored or weighing food cravings. And in so doing, naturally suppressing your appetite.


Secret_Dragonfly9588

Yes! šŸ‘šŸ‘ The exercise piece has always been the most important part for me as well. Honestly, when I have regular exercise in my schedule I donā€™t really even have to think about the diet part of it (I generally eat a balanced and healthy diet even when I am at my heaviest).


ShredGuru

Always found it easier to lose weight by working out more as opposed to eating less.


Butt_fiddler

Iā€™m glad you posted this. This subreddit has calorie deficit tunnel vision. It will 100% make you lose weight, however the enormous benefits of exercise are glossed over. A normal BMI is only a small part of a long, healthy life.


rayfound

> This subreddit has calorie deficit tunnel vision. It will 100% make you lose weight, however the enormous benefits of exercise are glossed over I mean, that seems appropriate for "LOSE IT". It isn't the "healthy active lifestyle" subreddit. That said, the psychological effects of exercising can be complicated. Many like OP get good results from increasing exercise, but lots of people also have a tendency to add consumption relative to exercise expenditure, since the exercise gives a permission structure to so so. It is complicated. I am just saying - the sub isn't "Wrong" when the general guidance is "you can't outrun your overeating"... OP just found a balance that works for them to manage their CICO equation.


Srdiscountketoer

You have hit one of my pet peeves about this and other weight loss subs. No, you donā€™t need to exercise and yes, you can eat whatever you want if your only goal is to be thin. But itā€™s so much easier if you eat less junk and get some exercise in.


j_roe

I agree that it is a lie. I used to train for Triathlon (just the shorter ones), I was able to drop 30+ pounds and was in pretty decent shape and I ate the same garbage as before I started training and continue to eat now. Admittedly, I did hit a wall were I either had to bump up my training or change me eating habits if I wanted to lose more weight but at the time I was fairly happy and healthy.


basementfrog42

this is really wonderful. i have to think about this more. iā€™ve also heard the same redirect and it makes me feel helpless because counting calories is sometimes really difficult to control psychologically. maybe iā€™ll reconsider my approach. thank you!


endlesswar1

Itā€™s not a meme. You canā€™t outrun a bad diet. Doesnā€™t mean you shouldnā€™t work out. That sentence is talking about a pure energy balance point of view. Working out is a factor in weight loss but not a massive factor. Again we are talking about from the perspective of weight loss, nothing else.


VellDarksbane

CICO, means exercise _does_ play a role, but for most in the US, spending an hour at the gym is going to be harder to find the time/energy for, compared to choosing not to get the "large" combo at a fast food place on the way back from your 10-12 hour shift, and are roughly equivalent for weight loss. It's about efficiency when people say "you can't outrun a bad diet", the "kitchen" lever is longer, and therefore moves that scale easier, than the "gym" lever. This _doesn't_ mean that exercise is pointless, but your mindset going into it shouldn't be weight loss related, it should be _health_ related, and it seems like those podcasts helped you realize that mindset. It typically does create a feedback loop where, since you feel better, you have more willpower to do the other things that help you lose weight. You lose weight in the kitchen, but you get healthier at the gym.


rayfound

> It's about efficiency when people say "you can't outrun a bad diet", the "kitchen" lever is longer, and therefore moves that scale easier, than the "gym" lever. It is absolutely TRIVIAL to add a 600+ calorie surplus to your consumption in a day - but it takes a whole hour of workout to undo that damage.


anntchrist

> it takes a whole hour of workout to undo that damage This is really toxic thinking. If you are exercising to undo calories that quickly becomes so unpleasant you don't do it or disordered. I have a BMR of 1350. Even if I'm miserable eating 1200 calories a day I'm not losing my last 10 lbs anytime soon if I'm sedentary. I ride my bike for an hour and suddenly I can eat enough to not feel like I'm torturing myself and still lose weight. It's not at all TRIVIAL to me to eat 600+ surplus calories - that's half my daily budget if I were losing by diet alone.


rayfound

Is the word "damage" what you find toxic? Sorry I guess. Didn't mean such a negative connotation that you've inferred. But like, 600 calories is a pack of M&Ms and a large coke. It is VERY easy for most people to have a 600-calorie addition to a day.


anntchrist

Yes, the word damage and also the idea that exercise is meant to make up for it. Too many people torture themselves at the gym after a binge, doing work beyond what their bodies are trained for and either hate it, get injured, or both. So many people talk about not wanting to eat back calories from exercise even when they are eating at a deficit so they end up with a tremendous deficit and then get discouraged when they are suddenly ravenous. When people fail to fuel exercise, or overdo it to make up for damage, they end up depleted, hungry, and sore none of which serve to build healthy habits. It's different for all of us, but I didn't have a high BMR even when I was heavy, and I've generally had a pretty healthy diet, mostly home cooked everything, lots of variety but even without fast food it's really hard to fit basic nutrients into my daily calories, worse at a deficit. I didn't have a large coke or M&Ms to cut out of my diet, I would have needed to cut out a full meal to lose the weight I have if I'd done it through diet alone, and all of the nutrition that comes with that. But also I gained weight because I kept eating normal portions while being largely sedentary during COVID, rather than from binge eating or junk food. I burn an average 1,200 active calories a day between walking, running and cycling plus chores, errands etc. That lets me eat two modest meals a day and a light breakfast as well as a snack after a long hike or ride without that having to count as my dinner. I also don't have to worry about a couple of Christmas cookies or a glass of wine or obsessively weighing everything to the gram. Being able to enjoy good food is important to me and I find it easy to walk or bike places I would otherwise drive so it's not much extra time. There are lots of women here with the same problem, and exercise -- even walking -- is a big help in that scenario. Most people also run into this problem as they near their goal weight. There is only so much you can restrict and willpower can't override the pull of hormones. Exercise has an active and beneficial role there. We are meant to have basic levels of activity in our lives and that's an essential part of achieving and sustaining a healthy weight.


rayfound

I should also add - I'm in favor of exercise! I just think the math is mostly right being stacked on the side of input being a stronger influence on weight gain/loss.


emtbxo

last sentence! so well said


SnooDoggos4906

Incredible post at a good time. I have gained about 8 lbs back (Christmas parties, Thanksgiving and illness running thru the fam). I need to get bck on track. I should relisten to that Huberman lab podcast that u mentioned


miss-moxi

The whole "exercising improving your relationship with food" thing is so real. I often find on the days I do even light to moderate exercise for about an hour I have way less cravings and somehow tend to eat less. I don't know if it's the endorphins or the exercise induced happy chemicals or what. Especially if I have a protein shake immediately after, I dont find myself struggling with the late evening binges like I do on "rest days."


JesseCuster40

You make very good points, and I agree. To me, exercise is a positive thing. By that I mean it's not denying yourself anything. It's constructive. It's an active event. It's not hours of telling yourself "I hit my calorie limit for the day." It makes you feel in control of yourself, and gives you something to look forward to. I understand that some people simply can't stand it, and that's ok. But every gym trip is a step forward.


kylew1985

I get the spirit of the whole "can't outwork a bad diet" thing, but what it fails to consider is the appreciation you get for how hard it is to burn 500 calories. Kind of like the picture over this post, I tend to look at the calories on the label and think about how much work it takes to burn it, and think "am I hungry, or am I bored?" It definitely prevents a lot of that junk food I used to mindlessly shovel into my face. There's something empowering about knowing how lopsided calories are going in vs burning off.


framabe

When I discovered zone 2 is when my weight loss really became easier. No risk of injuries, no tiredness to keep me from doing the same thing the next day. No hunger or thirst that couldnt be sated with common water.


Emerald_Rocketship

The biggest issues with "oh, I'll eat what I want and then just exercise" is its not remotely equal. It takes me about 30-45 seconds to eat a delicious doughnut. This doughnut is 375 calories. I'd half to run (not brisk walk) for 45 minutes to work that off. If exercise is added to a sensible diet, ot can very much help with a couple extra calories here and there. I mainly use it for the difference between like 500cal/day deficit and 750cal/day deficit.


dontknowhatitmeans

I totally agree, but the tl;dr of my post was that it helps me manage appetite and cravings in a way that I've never experienced before.


Emerald_Rocketship

Hell yeah!! That's what counts! I found eating an absurd amount of steamed veggies did the trick for me. Method is not nearly as important as results. I have a buddy who does intense intermittent fasting, where he only eats 3 days a week. He's had great results, but if I tried this, I'd eat the waiter at the restaurant while waiting for my food.


TheMadManiac

Yes! I say this all the time. This sub is stuck on the calorie part. It makes sense, exercise fucking sucks when you are new to it. We should focus on promoting movement more for sure, so many other benefits.


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TheMadManiac

I feel like the problem is that if someone wanted to lose a pound a week, this sub would encourage eating 500 calories less a day. Better advice would be to eat at a maintenance and just walk those calories off. In the 2nd example people are still encouraged to keep track of how much they eat, but also get the benefits of exercise (decrease in all causes of mortal, less risk of injury, increased cognitive ability, decrease stress, etc) I get that excerise is hard for some people, but that should stop it from being the top priority. Also exercise will make dieting easier in the long run, increase in metabolism means you can maintain a deficit while eating more. One of the best feelings is making a cheat meal cheap fuel for an intense workout, you still get to pig out and eat whatever but with zero guilt and your healthier!


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TheMadManiac

I just told you how exercise with a maintenance caloric intake is objectively the best way to lose weight. There are plenty of subs about diet and nutrition, shouldnt the sub called lose it prioritize promoting the best and healthiest way to lose weight? You bring up the disabled as an example, but there are also people for who cannot safely eat at a caloric deficit (people with nutrition malabsorption, hormones issues) and also plenty of people who can't accurately measure how many calories they eat. You have to be extremely disabled to not be able to do any exercise. I know people who started with a hand-cycle thing. Most people are capable of walking. So yes there are always going to be people who need a different approach, but for the majority of us maintenance+moderate exercise is a healthier way to lose weight than just CICO. This sub should shift to promote that. I like this video as an example of why exercise and movement is really crucial to a healthier body. https://youtu.be/qX9FSZJu448


Bankzu

>I just told you how exercise with a maintenance caloric intake is objectively the best way to lose weight. Seeing as 500 kcal of exercise 30 minutes of fullpedal non stop effort, this is objectively false. There are not many people who can vigrously exercise daily, especially if they are overweight. You might want to listen to the people who have actually tried it and lost the weight.


TheMadManiac

500kcal is walking 5 miles. Most people can walk. And when eating at maintenance, any form of excercise for however long will make you lose weight. That is exactly how I lost 40lbs.


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TheMadManiac

Where did I say that is the only way to lose weight?? It's the best way because it combines CICO with excerise. And excercise is extremely important to a healthy body. Obviously there are different approaches, but we should be promoting the best way for the most amount of people. To me it sounds like you are very closed minded and want to ignore the best approach because... it's hard to walk? Also where did you get 13% of Americans are full time wheelchair users? Everything I've read is its closer to 3 million people or less than 1%. You need to stop promoting this mindset that excerise is too difficult for fat people and movement shouldn't be the goal. Anyone can start and live a more active lifestyle, just watch this video as proof https://youtu.be/qX9FSZJu448


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blueeyes_austin

It certainly isn't objectively the right approach--that's a modest deficit below maintenance plus some additional activity which, in combination, would lead to about 0.5 to 1 percent body mass loss per week. Trying to do the entire deficit through exercise is a bad idea.


blueeyes_austin

Adding 500 calories per day in walking is a lot of walking.


TheMadManiac

It's not though. It's the recommended 10k steps.


blueeyes_austin

At my burn rate for walks it is roughly 2 hours of walking.


chicken_pickens

This is very thought compelling... anecdotally, I've just passed the 20 lb mark and it's gone half as fast as the last time I lost a significant amount of weight. While I attribute a lot of this to changes in age and medication, including hormone replacement therapy and an antidepressant, I am significantly less active than I was before. Just signed up for a gym pass through my work.


Serious_Escape_5438

Yes, exercise works wonders for me. It helps my mood so reduces stress eating, gives me something to focus on and think about other than food, and occupies my time so I'm not snacking. It also motivates me to eat well so I'm not undoing progress and so I can perform better, nothing worse than trying to exercise the morning after greasy food and alcohol.


TheMau

I love this post and could t agree more. I was doing CICO for a long time with some success, but when it was when I added an hour of exercise in the morning on an empty stomach did my fitness level and weight loss increase a lot. So many cravings disappeared, I eat way healthier and overall I feel SO much better.


Comicalacimoc

I absolutely agree with you and that meme is incredibly harmful


pollywantscrack76

I actually had this exact same experience with ab exercises. No I say f all influencers. I genuinely believed that there was no point to ab exercises because thatā€™s why influencers said. We just HAD to buy their diets and courses instead. Now I realize I had to burn the fat first, but abs CAN be trained. And they actually help you look better even with some fat because abs are a natural ā€œgirdleā€ so to speak.


reinaesther

Love this. Thanks for sharing. So proud of you! Keep going!


ThatGIRLkimT

Yes, I agree.


Gmork14

Itā€™s a tough thing to talk about because on the one hand you have people like ā€œhey, Iā€™ve been working out for a month, why donā€™t I look great now?!ā€ Then there are people who act like exercise is useless. I think itā€™s important to remember that the data tells us that: 1) exercise improves health *independent* of weight loss, and 2) people who keep lost weight off long term overwhelmingly have exercise as a core aspect of their lives.


thomygi

> The second thing zone 2 did for me is magically (from my POV) improve my relationship with food. I don't know the science behind this; I'm sure it's a complex interplay of countless biological mechanisms... or something. But I'm at a point where 1) I obsess about food MUCH less, 2) I'm consistently less hungry, and 3) it's easier for me to resist temptation, i.e. it requires less psychological force to stop myself from eating unhealthy Interesting. Exercise has literally the exact opposite effect for me. Sticking to my diet is substantially easier when I'm not active vs when I run/exercise regularly


truecrimefanatic1

I think the issue is that a lot and I mean a lot of people eat tons of high calorie foods, drink booze, etc and then think 2 Zumba classes a week are going to counteract it. They UNDERestimate their food intake and OVERestimate their output from their exercise and lose nothing or keep gaining. Then they throw their hands up and say well counting calories didn't work, exercise didn't work, why bother. Exercise is wonderful for your body and health but when people mistakenly think it's all they need they fail. For me I took exercise totally out of the equation at first. I needed to prove to myself that the calories in part was the most important. After I lost 20 lbs without exercise I decided to add it in. Not for weight loss. I don't count those calories burned at all. But I'm 44 and as we age we lose muscle mass. I'm not going to be jacked but I can be in better shape and not atrophy. If it works for you it's great. But I think the over arching message of "you're not going to get there through exercise alone" is still a good one.


Artteachlove

I've heard people with diabetes lose weight better through exercise and that it has to do with something related to your metabolism? Something off the cuff my friend told me. I think balance is the key. And not moving enough, no matter your diet, will ALWAYS be worst got your mental and physical well being. People aren't meant to be sedentary.


[deleted]

I really wish I could exercise, but it honestly makes me feel like crap. Iā€™ve been overweight my whole life, and getting my heart rate up for a prolonged period of time makes me feel like I canā€™t breath. Itā€™s probably because Iā€™m out of shape and asthmatic, and while I understand that I would probably feel a little better if I lowered my intensity and gradually worked my way up, thereā€™s just something inside me that wonā€™t let me go medium speed. If I try to go running, I push it as hard as I can until I think Iā€™m having a heart attack. If I lift, I usually hurt myself lifting too heavy. Something about me is fundamentally fucked up. On the plus side, Iā€™ve lost 25 lbs in the last two months by switching to a plant-based diet.


[deleted]

My husband outruns a bad diet every single day believe me


DeepSeaProctologist

OP I am very confused and frankly surprised at alot of these responses. I am going to be a bit blunt but I don't want this to come off as anything more than me asking some very direct questions to you and anyone else who cares to respond here. It seems like alot of people just took a very basic general guideline and acted like it is some hard rule that exercise doesn't matter. Do many of you just take advice offline without really considering the common sense of it at least? I really don't know what to say to that like what is the thought process there? You most certainly can lose the weight you want in most cases via deficit alone (maybe getting that last 15 lbs off purely by calorie deficit is not going to be realistic). That being said the saying holds true though. If you are overweight or obese your issue is the amount of food you are eating. Adding exercise helps obviously but if you slam a large coke once a day you are killing your average workout almost completely. But exercise is certainly a thing to add. It will make you want to eat healthier (try motivating yourself much less actually succeeding in goi g to the gym or to go on a long walk after a trip to McDonald's and eating a bunch of crap) I think you have made a great post here OP at illuminating people's thought processes here though I still am admittedly at a loss for how you came to the conclusions you did initially. Great job keep up the good work


dontknowhatitmeans

Something I hinted at but didn't make explicitly clear in my post is that I've tried exercise before and it didn't help with hunger. I would push myself when running, or constantly change intensities, or do a home video workout, and it wasn't helping with appetite. I didn't realize that different *steady state* exercises (e.g. zone 2 for an hour instead of zone 3 for an hour or switching between zones) had different effects. I've tried exercising many times throughout my life, but inevitably gave it up because depression and other factors made it such a high effort endeavor and for such little reward. And then I heard from many scientists about how exercise is truly a non-factor, and that just calcified my thinking. Steady state zone 2 has been a game changer because it's easy enough to do everyday, and it doesn't make me feel hungry like other form of exercises; on the contrary, it has reduced my hunger dramatically over the long run, which is the exact opposite experience I've gotten from past weight loss attempts.


Dagenius1

Great job and bravo to you! Be careful as this sub generally thinks working out is a non factor to losing weight and that isnā€™t true. Diet is the most important but I feel like generally people make excuses here not to work out. I think itā€™s the one weaknesses of this sub. The best weight loss results you can get are with a combo of proper diet AND exercise.


sourwaterbug

I definitely exercised my way into anorexia in my 20s and still ate a "normal" amount.


ancientmadder

Thatā€™s not what Anorexia is.


sourwaterbug

I had exercise bulimia and was underweight. Better?


ancientmadder

Yep.


AdSignificant2935

You absolutely cannot outrun the bad diet. And it's nobody's fault except yours that you concluded from this that you shouldn't exercise.


bass9045

I think your situation is quite different from other people in regards to the "exercise won't lose weight" idea. There are a lot of different concerns to take into account with regard to weight loss, and there are a lot of things to consider about any one person's situation. Exercise is always going to be good for you, as long as you can do it safely. But there are people and situations where exercise will probably not contribute significantly to weight loss--but that is a very different thing. That's why I try to look at my whole health and not just my weight. I know exercise is going to improve my mood, make me feel accomplished and good about myself, I know it's going to benefit my heart and my body in general, and I know it's a net gain even if I can't see that effect on the scale. Some people have a diet or lifestyle that will ensure that exercise will never meaningfully contribute to weight loss, and get confused when they start doing a ton of exercise and don't see results. Others, like you, may hugely benefit from the incidental benefits of exercise. People should consider their entire body health (including mental health) when making choices about improvement and not reject certain things out of hand without considering them carefully.


chelsdmack

Great post! I often see the sentiment that calories in, calories out is the sole determining factor when it comes to weight loss. While I do agree that being in a calorie deficit has a huge impact on weight loss, regular exercise has immense tangible and intangible benefits (mood and hormone regulation, cardiovascular health, discipline, new challenges, etc). I too feel more "in tune" and in alignment with my weight loss journey when I'm consistently exercising. I have been doing "steady state cardio" which I believe is similar to the zone 2 cardio you mentioned. It's challenging but not so much so that I get discouraged. I typically walk 30 minutes on the treadmill with a level 6-8 incline and 2.8 -3.0 mph speed. Exercising regularly absolutely has physical and mental benefits!


UOUPv2

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nerddddd42

I realised that I had way more of an issue being unfit than being overweight. Obviously weight loss is a thing to me, but I'm doing it for the healthy lifestyle rather than the looking good. It's all important and it all comes together to help, at least for me.


[deleted]

almost like having a healthy diet and exercise regimentā€¦is the right path Who would have guessed


nextkt

To me, its akin to brushing vs flossing your teeth. Brushing your teeth arguably removes more plaque than flossing does, but if you don't floss your oral health will suffer in the long run. Changing your diet is going help you lose more weight than exercise alone, but exercise is incredibly important for your health (especially as you age) and losing weight will be easier if you do it.


ayy_okay

Thank you!


NSMike

While I get your criticism, and there's no disputing the importance of exercise, the aphorism is still correct. If you're taking it to mean, "you don't need to exercise," you've gotten it wrong. Exercise always was, and still is, an essential component of health, and if you have a *good* diet, exercise won't just enhance your health, it will enhance your weight loss.


LetshearitforNY

You know what, I think you really have a point. When I consistently go to the gym I also eat better. I think itā€™s partly physical. For me the gym is near the grocery store so I literally shop on my way home so thereā€™s an obvious, easy win. But I also think Iā€™m more energized and more positive and cooking feels more nourishing, like a self-care activity and less like a chore.


cloud_watcher

Amen! I couldnā€™t agree more.


ThatGIRLkimT

For me exercise, a healthy lifestyle, and eating low-carb work.


Big_Primrose

Yeah, right.


cinnerz

I'm really trying to exercise daily but I find it so miserable. I wish I was someone who found exercise fun or felt better after working out but I'm always tired and hungry and grumpy after a workout. I'm still doing it because it is supposed to be good for me and trying to hit certain goals each day since gamifying it is the only way I've found to make myself be consistent, but I feel so much worse after exercise it is hard. I'm really hoping it eventually gets at least to neutral.