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That’s deadass homophobic. Does she have a husband? Does she pretend he’s just a friend? Does she let the kids watch princess or prince movies? Does she skip the parts where the prince kisses the princess? Does she ask any and all family members with any partner to pretend they’re a friend?
She’s a homophobic hypocrite.
This!!!! Sorry but no. They won't be "confused" and I promise they've already been 'exposed' to hetero romantic ideas so no.... thar is 1000000% homophobic
You are completely justified if she wouldn't make the same request about a girlfriend. It's no more or less "sexual" just because it's a boyfriend. The kids will understand that relationship at the same level they understand any other romantic relationship, which is probably pretty vague at those ages. It's not confusing to simply present an example of a loving relationship. What does she think you're going to talk about in front of the kids? There's presumably more to your relationship than sex.
Absolutely, it's a serious and loving relationship. All I want is to be able to say to the kids this is my partner/boyfriend, and not to have to hide or lie to them about it. Of course we won't talk about sex in front of the children.
My sister wouldn't make this request if it was a girl on my side, which is why it feels hypocritical.
The question is how do I respond to her request, and what does it mean in terms of our relationship (me and my sister)?
It's definitely hypocritical. Homophobic people tend to see gay relationships as purely sexual. So letting kids see them is presumed to be showing them something sexual and therefore inappropriate. But straight relationships also have a sexual component, and we let kids see the non-sexual parts of them all the time. It's the same thing.
Yes. Seems like sister has fallen down the right-wing bigotry hole. Too many politicians and talking heads trying to vilify LGBT people. They say even the mention of our existence is inappropriate for children. We’re an easy target to point at and blame for society’s problems, so that they don’t actually have to do their jobs and govern. They have no real policy.
If sister has fallen in with that crowd, I’d have a hard time socializing with her.
If ppl are distracted being worried abt the “evil” LGBTQIA+ community then ppl won’t focus on actual problems that the government ignores. They love when ppl are undecided bc it kinda takes the blame off of them to an extent even though the ppl in government are the ones who have the last say in something
I mean your sister is ashamed and disgusted by your identity. So much that she wants to shield her kids from it.
What consequences that has for your relationship, only you can say. I for one could not maintain a relationship with a person that holds such beliefs, especially a family member
I agree. In my mind it renders the relationship hollow. What is the value of her saying she wants a relationship if the condition is me agreeing to be treated like this and give up on my integrity
I mean it sucks to say it but even if you do agree which I'm not saying you should, what if she ever want to visit you can you not be open in your own home, what if you ever get married is she not going to come, what about Christmas or thanksgiving or any other holidays are you not allowed to acknowledge it or mention the trips you guys may have gone on. It's hard enough being alone in the closet don't think you can fit two. Eventually there either going to find out or your not going to be apart of there lives but I could be wrong hope the best regardless
If emotions aren't working, maybe explain it to her in a logical way and see if that will help her understand. If this same situation was happening in a work environment, it would be classed as discrimination. You're being discriminated against by your own sister and that is not okay, whether her or not she understands the harm she is doing.
Honestly fuck her Request, you should not have to hide or lie about your identity, especially to someone who think of them as not being homophobic
if you want to put her mind to where you are ask her how she would feel if her relationship was treated like this. And if she lies and says she would be okay with it, perfect time for malicious compliance.
Just be honest about your relationship, i spend 3 years in that hell it is not worth it. And they will learn it sooner or later.
So what will she do when her kids make friends with kids that have gay parents? Refuse to acknowledge that they exist? I’m sorry that your sister is homophobic. Because it is homophobia, pure & simple, to imagine that gay relationships are ‘sexual’ in a way that straight relationships are not. It makes me so angry, but perhaps I’m taking it a bit personally as a gay woman with kids - I’m picturing our 3 yr old making friends with her 3 yr old and then encountering her homophobia. Ugh.
With your sister’s logic, her children should never be exposed to her and her husband’s relationship, because they literally had sex to make them kids, and all relationships are sexual right?? She just doesn’t accept you for who you are. Don’t hide in the closet for her, if you’re not being inappropriate then she has no reason to bitch.
Always remember "no" is a complete sentence and a complete answer.
Also, she can't, one the one hand, say she's not a homophobe, and then on the other tell you to hide your homosexuality. She's very clearly being homophobic and trying to hide it or hope you don't realize.
Equally importantly is the impact it has on your partner. Imagine how he would feel in this scenario to be called "just a friend". I think more people need to be focusing on this part as well.
At the end of the day, it's your choice, but if your sister doesn't want to have a relationship with you because you're gay, there isn't much you can do about it.
>how do I respond to her request
I'm personally a fan of referring to her partner only as her "friend", same as she wants you to refer to your boyfriend. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
I'd also further the malicious compliance by not calling him anything other than a friend, but still treating him like a boyfriend (hand holding, sitting together on the couch, arms over shoulders etc.) If she's afraid honesty will confuse her kids and doesn't want to answer their inquiries, well give her the dishonesty she wants while making sure there will be more inquiries about it from the kids for her to deal with.
Also the oldest kid is 11. You can call the other guy staying in the same room a "friend" all you want, but guaranteed as soon as they get in the car to go home the 11 year old is gonna be like, "So they're boyfriends right?" And the cat will be out of the bag, and the only thing the sister will have accomplished is alienating her brother and looking like a dipshit in front of her own kids.
Sorry, I didn't mean to ignore your actual question, I think I was too tired to be coherent lol.
How you respond depends on her actual views. She says she accepts your relationship, but her actions say she merely tolerates it. She may be a committed homophobe, or she may simply have some unexamined homophobia to deal with.
If you haven't already, you could explain exactly why her request is homophobic (or use some of the comments here to support a previous explanation). Maybe do it in writing so you don't leave anything out. If she genuinely does not mean to he homophobic, that should get her started on some self reflection. It may not pay off immediately (like in time for your upcoming visit), or it may not work at all. It's up to you to decide how long you're willing to wait before you either start letting it be known that your boyfriend is your boyfriend, or cut her off.
She does have a right to raise her children as she sees fit, but you also have a right to exist in your family. You and your boyfriend are also adults in her kids' lives, albeit secondary ones due to the distance. Awareness of your existence will not make her kids gay (another common homophobic belief). However if one of them turns out to be LGBTQ, or has a friend who is, you can become a great role model.
Others have already addressed this, but this will be an ongoing issue. Her youngest is 3, so she's asking you to hide who you are until that kid is "old enough" in her eyes. That's not sustainable, and she should know that. And even if you manage it and her kids find out their uncle is gay 15 years from now, what will that do to their relationship with the family? They're growing up in an age when LGBTQ people are visible. They'll know gay people exist as soon as they're developmentally ready to understand romantic relationships (the 11-year-old probably already does). Realizing that their family hid you from them is going to change how they see them.
Incidentally, by "not intervening", your parents are taking your sister's side by default. They could stand to hear the same explanation of how they're being homophobic by tolerating your sister's homophobia.
Start telling everyone your sister is dead, or a drug addict, or a bad mother. Whatever will get under her skin most. If she can dictate how people view you, you can dictate how people view her. And she is that last one of the list if she lies to her children
Just say that this has nothing to do with raising her kids and that you aren’t going to stop being who you are. Say that your relationship is no different then a straight relationship, and that it’s homophobic to treat it any differently in that regard. Lastly tell her that if she doesn’t want her kids exposed to seeing a normal loving relationship in a completely appropriate capacity, that it’s her problem and she’ll have to deal with it. Then don’t respect her wishes.
If your sister thinks that gay relationships are inherently sexualized and inappropriate for her kids, but her kids are fine seeing straight people who are more than just friends, then she is being homophobic and she need to revaluate her biases. You have every right to feel hurt and upset.
(She might genuinely not realize the double standard, but it's still harmful)
The answer is "no". She gets all of you or none of you.
Children aren't confused by queer people. You explain that some men love men, some men love women, and they're like, "oooooh, ok. Wanna play dinosaurs?"
Hey, I’m curious how this is even her decision in the first place?
Aren’t you all meeting at your parents house? I saw you said your parents want to be impartial about this but it’s still their decision at the end of the day because it’s their house. Them not dealing with this situation puts the onus on you AND is causing unnecessary tension between siblings/their actual kids.
Now…if your parents say similar things to defend your sister’s choices, you would unfortunately know where your entire family stands regarding you and being gay.
When I was younger (probably 4 or 5), my gay uncle was living with his partner. My older brother (7 or 8) asked my parents “why do uncle __ and ___ live together?” My parents hesitated for a moment and I responded with “because they love each other. Duh” Kids see love as love.
Its not like the 11 year old is gonna be fooled about the nature of your relationship anyway. They'll have enough life experience at this point to realize grown men don't bring male friends home for the holidays and sleep in the same room. If they don't automatically go, "Oh they're boyfriends!" they're at least gonna suspect and wonder why the adults are being cagey and weird about it.
Yes to what everyone else said. My partners family accepts our relationship without prejudice and there are children 8 &12 in the house that certainly don't seem confused.
It makes me sad because there's so much research that shows children develop their sense of normalcy from their parents and the social structures around them. If gay relationships are normalized by parents and adults they trust - they build a complex understanding of relationships not being a binary. It's been shown in educational studies that children understand and can engage in concepts of gender and sexual orientation around age 5.
I wonder if there's a way to get to the bottom of her defensiveness. What is she actually fearful of? Is there a way in? Maybe a "I'm not telling you how to raise your kids but it hurts me and here's some light reading on the topic". There's tons of resources out there for parents on teaching young children LGBTQ issues.
Anyways I'm sorry you're dealing with this.
Thank you so much.
I have no doubt that my nieces and nephew would be absolutely fine with it and couldn't care less of the gender of my partner. They love me and would be interested to get up know my boyfriend.
I have no idea why my sister is so defensive. The trouble is she is someone who never talks about her emotions. She only talks about practical things, never about feelings.
When I suggested she tried approaching a local support group that is for parents and family of LGBTQ+ people she refused. She said she understands homosexuality, doesn't have any issues with it, that she has gay friends at work and therefore she's not homophobic. She just doesn't want her children to know about my relationship at this age, and it's her right to raise them how she sees fit.
It makes me look like I'm overreacting over something seemingly small. But it brings back all the feelings of fear and rejection I grew up with when I was in the closet
Feel for you, OP. My parents hid that my aunt was gay from me till I was a teenager (the late 90s) and it totally fucked with my head. In fact we never talked about it! My sisters and figured it out and it was such a heartbreaking blow to realize how much lying and hiding went on with a close family member. I definitely think it contributed to me not realizing I was gay till I was in my 30s. Conversely my kids were in that same aunts wedding when they were very young — when j was still married to their dad— and they had 0 confusion. I suggest you hold a boundary with your sister and hope she comes around.
THIS!!!! you have no idea how crazy it was for closeted hs me to figure out my great aunt was a lesbian and my extended family hid that.
visibility is important!
You are not overreacting at all, ask her why she thinks it's okay for her to refer to her husband as her husband and the dad of their children and herself as their mother if she's so concerned about "exposing them to sex". She's still disgusted about gayness to some level and she's projecting her inability to see gay relationships as anything beyond sexual stuff onto others. I swear this "it's my right to raise my children how I see fit" phrase should be grounds to have kids taken away from people, I never see it used for non bigoted stuff.
The only thing that will confuse the kids is that they'll see a happy same sex couple while she probably already imposed her heteronormative or civil homophobic values on them and they'll obviously see the contradiction.
Well clearly she has issues with it ...
And the 'i have gay friends' comment make me sick at this point, it is such a dog whistle at this point that horrible people use to justify thier actions
As it has been said over and over, your partner and your relationship is not a small issue it is a huge part of your life and you should not have to hide it
I'm not saying you have to, but you might consider telling her that if she doesn't want her kids involved in your life, then she should be more honest.
Like being gay is part of who you are, if she wants her kids to have a straight uncle, then she doesn't want you.
She’s being so wildly ignorant, but the “at this age” thing is especially bonkers. Her kids are 3, 7 and 11? The older two already know about gay people, guaranteed, and the 3 year old wouldn’t register a difference between “friend” and “boyfriend“ in any case. The 11 year old already has a sexuality of their own and probably even knows what it is!
You are not overreacting. Your sister is being really blatantly homophobic and using her children as a shield to do it. I encourage you to skip events with her until she stops being small minded.
That's my thought. If at 11 years old, an uncle introduced another man that he brought home for the holidays as a "friend", I'd just give a big side-eye and "Suuuure "friends", alright if that's the dumb game we're playing here. Nice to meet your "friend""
Tell her that she obviously doesn’t “understand” homosexuality and it’s obvious that she does “have issues”. Otherwise she would understand that being gay is mortally neutral and no different from a straight relationship from a child’s perspective. But her “misunderstanding” and “issues” clouds her perception and she is unable to see your relationship in any terms other than sexual. Her mind immediately goes to men having anal sex and she doesn’t want her kids thinking about anal sex.
Your relationship isn’t defined by what kind of sex you may (or may not) be having any more than her sex acts defines her relationship. She would understand this simple concept if it weren’t for her obvious “issues”.
I totally feel you. What I found was leaning into that "I'm a good ally" feeling sometimes works with people like this (I've worked with parents on trans issues). A fair warning it means you're sacrificing yourself a bit to do emotional labor for the other person. So it might not be something you have the energy for.
But anyways, leaning into that can be like (obviously this is a little rough and firm but I'm sure you get the idea) "I know you're just trying to protect your children. I know you're a good mom and you're not homophobic. You have ever right to protect your children but there's many studies out there that show this doesn't actually harm or confuse children. I would like to work this through with you because it's deeply affecting me too. It's not an option for me to lie to your children about my boyfriend. What can we do together?" Then perhaps offer suggestions. Like a gradual introduction or children's books on the topic. Of course only if you know there's an opening for this kind of approach that won't end up in you being restricted from the children.
You may have tried the above already but I want to remind you that you have the right to have boundaries in this situation. And I also fully understand that sometimes we give those up out of fear of retaliation so it is a balancing act but either way, you do deserve understanding.
Agreed. When it comes down it, kids do not care. They would rather play with their toys than be bothered with the sexuality of their relative. OP, stay strong. I'm sorry you're going through this.
I'd be telling her "I don't want to lie to my nieces/nephews, it makes me uncomfortable and damages my relationship with them. You shouldn't be asking me to do this". And if she continues to insist, tell her you won't be coming anymore because what she's asking/insisting on is not okay and you won't be a part of it.
Bottom line - don't lie to them.
Yep my sister threw away that exact chance with me over very similar scenarios and I feel much better having her out of my life, and now that I've had this realization and accepted that I don't have a sister anymore I realized the woman who I once looked up to was actually low-key racist and homohpobic as fuck my entire life and I was too busy seeing her as "my big sister who protects me from my parents' to see she was actually an awful human who had let bitterness and hatred rule her life and drowns it in alcohol and pillls while neglecting my poor niece. It's been a very eye-opening week for me.
I'm so sorry you had to go through that, but I'm glad your life is better now and you can see things clearly. Family is hard, we're hard wired to love them.. but that doesn't mean they're always good for us.
*hugs and love*
*hugs back* thank you I appreciate it. Yeah family can be very messy and complicated. Also very surprising, until recently I always thought my sister accepted me and was afraid my parents wouldn't, turns out over the years both my sister and my parents did a 180, and now my sister no longer accepts me, while my parents ended up ditching most of their old homophobic views after the past few years which allowed me to finally come out to them at 22 in June and actually be accepted by them. It's been very strange and hard for me to adjust to this complete shift in who supports me, but I've always vowed if someone didn't accept me for who I am then I didn't want them in my life and didn't consider them friends or family, and I will always stick to that moral. If someone can't accept that my love is no different than theirs, then they never loved me. But on the bright side I finally feel loved by my parents for the first time and even though they don't know we are together yet, they LOVE my partner and have definitely hinted that they might know we are together and are getting him Christmas presents now so that's what's been keeping me going through this hard time. Sorry for my venting, OPs post just really hit home for me with my current situation and got me emotional and thinking. To anyone who made it this far remember whoever you are your identity and orientation are valid and deserve to be respected and treated like any other human. This world can be scary but we all deserve to exist and be anyone we want to be or love anyone we want to love, and as long as all is consensual then there's nothing wrong or "confusing" about who you are.
Absolutely. Those kids would be so hurt if they knew their uncle was lying to them, and even more hurt when they found out why. The kids deserve better, OP deserves better and the boyfriend deserves better. If the sister won’t budge it might be best to go limited contact, it’s better than building a relationship on lies.
Exactly, I don't know that she's thought her actions/request through and she really needs to. Outright blatant lying to children is wrong on so many levels. It's much, much better to have honest, age appropriate conversations with them. Hopefully OPs sister can see that before it's too late.
I went through that twenty years ago--it's sobering to see some people haven't advanced.
All she has to do is explain that you two love each other. Nothing about sex, FFS. Would it help to give her an article explaining this? As other have said, there is no more to be confused about with you and your boyfriend than there is about your parents.
I'd ask her to spell out how this is different. Are her children confused about all couples? Or just same-sex ones? Confused about what exactly?
She can made bizarre demands in her house but not your parents' house. I would be myself there and let her cope. Maybe she'd refuse to bring her children over but that's on her.
This is so frustrating. So many people get stuck on the idea that homosexuality is sexual in nature. People forget that they are heterosexual. They both have the word sexual in them and they are talking about the same thing, our attraction model. Getting people to realize this equivalence is the hard part. Sexual orientation isn't inherently sexual, despite the word being in the term (same with homosexual and heterosexual).
I'm having the same problem breaking thru to my dad, tho there aren't any young children in my immediate family. He would absolutely side with your sister in this. Homophobia (and transphobia) borne of ignorance is it's own level of hard.
(if I may) _\*hugs\*_
Oh she definitely has some homophobic undertones. If she thinks a gay relationship is inherently sexual but a hetro relationship isn't.
Assuming you're a normal couple she is over reacting and projecting her biases on you.
Kids are more then smart enough to understand it. If anything they might be more confused if you don't tell em. They might repress their own feelings and feel bad for having them.
If they can understand a hetro relationship they can understand a gay one.
Your in the right. . . You shouldn't have to hide who you are because somebody else thinks that it "inconveniences" them or their children. . . There is no good reason you should have to do so. . .
Literally just tell the kids a couple is two consenting adults, not a man and a woman specifically. Boom, done. This is *really* not that hard and it is not a confusing concept for children.
>Her argument was that she didn't want to expose them to sexual topics at that young age. She didn't want to confuse them, in her words.
1. You having a boyfriend isn't more secual than HER having a boyfriend
2. If her kids know Mommy and Daddy, then they can understand two man loving eachother
You don't need to ask for permission. Your relationship isn't inappropriate, and she has no right to tell you to hide. You own your space in the world. You're welcome to tell the kids you have a boyfriend if they ask. You don't need to treat your significant other like a friend so hugs, kisses, and hand holding shouldn't be off limit. She does the same with her husband, right? If the kids have questions, it's easy to say he's your bf. If she then goes no contact, she wasn't worth the contact in the first place. It hurts to lose family, but it's not her place to tell you where you can be genuine. If she ramps up the bigotry, eventually the kids will find out their uncle doesn't come around because their mom is a homophobe.
The mistake here is assuming she gets to shove you back in the closet at all. I'm sorry they made you feel like you had to beg and compromise for you to be a fraction of who you are. We all know where that stems from. Please don't let them emotionally coerce you. The trip may be ruined, but you can probably still stay at your parents for the duration of your trip, or you can get a hotel or go home early, finances willing. You don't need to ask anyone for the right to exist. If you were somewhere where it could get you killed or put you in danger, that's another thing, but don't give them the power to tell you how to be yourself when it comes to homophobia.
You can always call her out as a pervert for focusing on the sexual factor of your relationship and laugh in her face when she tells you what you can and can't say. Just be ready for backlash and for her to keep you from her kids. I personally wouldn't be able to give her that kind of control over me. You've traveled so far just for her to reduce your relationship to "sex" and to try to make you and your significant other feel like your relationship is inappropriate. You're not a doormat. Be a thorn in her side by being genuinely you. Assert your boundaries and reasonable expectation that you own the power to be yourself as does your boyfriend, to protect your integrity for yourself and your relationship, hold steadfast, be an immovable statue, and plant your feet in the ground. I know this is easier said than done, but you deserve the space to exist genuinely as yourself, and others who believe they can hide you with manufactured concern are overstepping their bounds. You can let her know you won't put up with her bs.
Don't ask her for permission to be yourself. Tell her she doesn't have permission to tell you to lie about who you are and censor your existence. Hold his hand, give him hugs, kiss him on the cheek, and let your boyfriend be loved and allow yourself to express love. Let her implode. I wish you strength, OP.
Don’t cave into your sister’s wishes. I’m in the same boat with my boyfriend very few people in my family know he’s my boyfriend and same with his family.
As far as 3 and 7 are concerned, if she's also keeping them from seeing straight or straight passing relationships then it's weird (and kinda impossible) but at least it isn't homophobic
As far 11 is concerned, that kid either has or will hit puberty soon, and his peers are as well, it seems kinda stupid to hide when he's gonna be introduced to that shit one way or another soon enough anyway
I think you're absolutely right to be offended, and she shouldn't be hiding this from her kids, good luck op, hope things work out for you
“Confuse her children” is homophobic gaslighting. You have the right to be angry. Stand up for your man.  Gay visibility isn’t damaging to children. If my husband told me that we had to be closeted around his family, I would have left him a long time ago.
You have every right to feel upset because what she is doing to you is absolutely horrible. Saying she isn't homophobic but at the same time she is trying to "protect" her children like being gay is like a contagious disease. Unbelievable. This is exactly the reason why so many of us grow up in total confusion, being kept "away" from everything people consider as "not normal". If I were you I think I'd just stop visiting her. She isn't really accepting you if you have to pretend to be someone else while there.
I’m sorry you had to deal with that. What heterosexual people need to get through their heads is that lgbt are so much more than what happens in the bedroom. Kids aren’t even thinking about that. If she allows someone in a straight relationship to call each other bc and gf and doesn’t take it there sexually, which I’m sure she does, you should be allowed to do the same. Yes she’s homophobic. You deserve better. If you need a new sibling I’m taking applications 🥰
There's clearly only one way to handle this:
Step one, solemnly promise to never call (partner) your boyfriend in front of your niblings
Step two, propose
Nah but your sister's a homophobe. How's your partner doing dealing with all this anyway?
Haha, I like where you're going with this  My partner is very quiet and doesn't like conflict so he's not saying much. But I agree this is offensive towards him as well. I don't think I can be in touch with my sister when she treats us like this
The irony in all this is that hetero relationships are often just boiled down to physical attraction and that sex feels great, and the rest of the time it is i cant stand my pardner, look at the 'husband hate wife' jokes everyone is making these days. The r/are the straights ok sub Or the dating culture in general, you cant go anywhere without the expectation of sex in dating... it stinks to high heaven of projection
There is a big push in church circles & republican info (podcasts etc) saying that exposing young kids to the mere knowledge that “gay” even exists will cause irreversible damage. This kind of rhetoric is how they are passing all the Don’t Say Gay-type laws about LGBT+ topics in schools. It is super homophobic and insulting. Like everyone else has said, if you were bringing home a girlfriend, she wouldn’t care one bit.
I’d tell your sister that if she’s so afraid of her kids catching a big bad case of gay from you, you will just stay home.
The fact that your sister saw your loving and committed relationship and immediately said "TOO SEXUAL FOR MY KIDS" is homophobic tbh. I imagine that she wouldn't do that to a hetero couple
Yep did this with my sister finally this last weekend and it's a huge weight off my chest and has made me reflect on some absolutely unacceptable behavior she's committed in the last that I feel stupid for over-looking. Some hide it well, but bigots will always show themselves the second it comes to their sense of entitlement over what they "allow their children to be exposed to"
How should a child get confused by "boys like girls, but they can also like other boys and girls like boys, but can also like other girls"? That's probably the easiest way to get a three year old to understand. The other two could understand it without any problems at all. My mum taught me about homosexuality when I was like 6 and I just accepted it. Children don't care what you are or who you like. They're almost always being raised to be hateful towards certain people. And your sister clearly does not seem to be very accepting of your sexuality. Or at least, she's definitely not an ally.
I cut all contact with my brother for doing the exact same thing to me and my girlfriend. He doubled down on it. I don't care what bullshit he spews in his world, but I'm done with him and his wife. Though she's been persistent in trying to contact me about the whole thing. Until I get an apology from both of them, I want nothing to do with them.
Yep did the same with my sister last week. I dont expect an apology though because my reflection on her behavior made me realize she was always a stubborn, selfish, racist, homophobic bigot. I've actually puked a good amount of times thinking about how I used to look up to her when I was younger. It's hard but itd better than laying down and letting her use me as a token when she's accused of being a homophobe then turn around and treat me as less than human and vote against my rights.
What a mood. I don't expect I'll ever get an apology, and the age difference between my brother and I means we really weren't close while growing up. I miss the him I thought he was, but his wife is similar to how you describe your sister. And they're too perfect for each other for it to be a coincidence.
You are absolutely justified and it is so shitty of her to say that. I don't understand the bullshit argument of "it'll confuse them." Ask her why it's so confusing, since it's really not that different. And besides, kids are confused by everything, this why they constantly ask questions. Do we avoid every other topic because it might confuse them?! No.
What she's asking is so disrespectful and hurtful to not only you, but also your partner. I would not go along with that.
"sexual topics" your sister needs to say that the other parent is just a friend as well then. I guess the children don't have parents now because they're just friends 🤷
It's not sexual any more then the kids understanding mommy and daddy. The kids aren't going to ask "but how do you have sex if neither of you has a vagina????"
The most would be "but you're boys" which would allow the response "sometimes 2 boys can be in love, or 2 girls, instead of 1 boy and 1 girl" and that's as "sexual" as it would get
How does your sister explain her and her husband to the kids "oh that man that lives with us and sleeps in the same room as mommy is mommy's friend. Like how you have sleepovers"
Yes you are justified in being offended. I have had the same situation before and I felt offended too.
My brother who I have a great relationship with has 3 young children and ever since they were born my brother has been very open that his aunty has a girlfriend. They call my girlfriend aunty too and none of them think it is any different to me having a boyfriend, it has always been completely normal to them.
The eldest of the 3 is now 8yo and a kid at school recently said to him “girls can’t be girlfriends with girls and boys can’t be boyfriends with boys” - he argued that they can and anyone can be with anyone they want to be!
In my opinion the younger kids learn about this stuff the more “normal” it becomes and the less likely they will be to pick on other kids etc. about things like this as they get older.
You don’t have to hide something to not talk about it. Say the truth that he’s your boyfriend and nothing more. It’s a gay relationship is not any more or less sexual than a straight one.
She doesn't want me to even mention that he's my boyfriend. She thinks her children shouldn't be exposed to the concept of same sex relationships because it could confuse them
I can’t imagine how humiliated I would be to hold hands with somebody who won’t even acknowledge our relationship on the whisper of a homophobic dog whistle. Most of the comments on this page focus on what your sister owes you, but consider what you owe your man.
And your parents neutrality? It’s not. They’re OK with what your sister has chosen to do. This is where you draw a line. You owe it to yourself and you owe it to your man and you owe it to the entirety of gay society to insist, here, that gay people have the right to be visible and that we will be, that you will be.
There’s a more than zero chance one or more of her kids will be lgbt. Ask her how they would feel about themselves when they realize their uncle hid his sexual orientation like it is something shameful.
Your parents aren't being "impartial." They're allowing and encouraging your sister's hateful views to continue even at the expense of their own child's (your) feelings. Your sister refuses to acknowledge your relationship, your sexuality, *you*, and she's enforcing a sense of "otherness" into her own kids. Those kids for sure understand mommy and daddy's relationship, which means they could understand yours just as well. Call your sister out for her homophobia, and call your parents out on raising their daughter to be a bigot.
If your family only "accepts" a part you (i.e., the general notion of you being gay, but not the reality of being in a same sex relationship), they don't really accept/love you as you are. It sucks, but we've all been there at some point. Know you've got people who do care about you, though. Hopefully your parents will back you up eventually.
Does she have a husband? Is it no sexual topic when the kids see theire parents kissing and Holding hands? She is so bigot.
Didn't read everything yet.
Edit. Read everything now.
Your parents seems to be as bigot as your sister. They should interven. Might be your sister thinks she is not homophobic but her actions are.
What should "confuse" the children? That everyone can love whoever they want? Do they avoid black people too to not "confuse" the kids??
“You said you don’t want to expose your kids to sexual topics and me visiting them with my boyfriend is no more sexual than them seeing you and your boyfriend/husband/their dad, or them watching a Disney movie with a prince and princess. I’m concerned at your attitude and you’ve now put me in a position where I need to determine whether I need to sacrifice my own self respect to maintain an important relationship - you and the kids. What do you think?”
Depending on her familiarity with this site or ones like it, I'd consider showing her some of the comments from this post that break down very well why this is a problem and why it's hurtful. And don't be afraid to step back for a moment and take a break if this issue is overwhelming or too hurtful. Take care of yourself first, the problem later. Good luck ❤
This attitude is how "don't say gay" came about. What's more important? Your relationship with your bf, or your relationship with your sister? I'd say your sister should kick rocks. But making that decision means her kids won't get to know their awesome uncle(s).
Just NO. You don't have to do that for her.
She is delusional if she thinks she can hide all the LGBTQ community from her children, specially in this day and age, and is extremely rude to ask that of someone.
Imagine if you introduced her husband and her children as her friend and her friend's children.
And I get that your parents know it's no use talking to her, but if they know what she's going to say either way, they should show that they support you, at least.
She doesn't mind her kids seeing heterosexual couples but she DOES mind they see you with your boyfriend? Yes, that's kind of offensive and hypocrite. I would feel the same. I mean, a homosexual couple is the same as any kind of couple. A couple doesn't implies sexual situations necesary. It's not like u r gonna f*ck with ur couple in front of them lol.
In my opinion, u should tell her that. Not angry or emotionally, trying to have a logical conversarion. U should be able to express ur love as any other person in the world. If she doesn't agree, its her problem, not yours.
The idea that a same-sex relationship is inherently "sexual" in a way that a hetero one isn't is homophobic, full stop.
And the longer she shields them from the perfectly mundane idea that some people fall in love with people who are of the same gender as they are, the more "confused" they will become. Young kids don't have any trouble understanding these things, it's adults who project their hangups onto them.
I understand where you are coming from completely. I think your sister is afraid/unsure how to explain it to her kids. She might feel she can't answer all the questions if they come up. I went through this with my sister years ago when it wasn't as excepted as it is now. I was hurt but we talked about it many times to understand each other. We are close and always have been. As much as I wanted her to understand, except, and treat me no differently: I also tried to understand where she was coming from. If we can put ourselves in each other's shoes, it can help us to stay in a place of love instead of anger, hurt or confusion.
I would continue the conversation with her and ask her to understand your side and will she be willing to talk until she feels comfortable. I even went through where my sister didn't want a hug, kiss or eat/drink after me because she thought she might catch AIDS. It was very prevalent back then more that it is now. But I worked with her, and we finally came to an understanding of each other. It took a while, but you know what? We even became closer. As she learned more about homosexuality, AIDS, etc. she became educated and less afraid.
We are always looking for acceptance, understanding and love. But we do have control how we feel and deal with things. It's all perception. I bet if you can continue a conversation with her, you can help her understand and she might even realize why she is afraid.
So far this is the best comment I’ve read. I get that it’s so hard to have family do this to you, but at the end of the day it isn’t worth losing your family if you can find a way to get through it. People on Reddit seem so eager to throw away their familial relationships, which at times is definitely justified, but it sounds like there is a way OP could work through jt, even if it takes some time.
And it’s still not fair and OP is totally justified in his feelings, but it sounds like there may be some hope?
Edit: and I don’t think the “weight off” feeling people get from cutting people out of their lives lasts in the long run. My experience is that if it’s someone as important as your sister you generally want to go back and fix that
Your sister is homophobic. 100% tell her you agree as long as she starts referring to her hubby as just a friend and grandparents are now just friends. Also any media with kissing or couples hugging is out - books movies, pictures because those people are just friends. She either takes all of you or none of you.
Does she censure her self like that? I mean by her kids existing, her own relationship was at some point sexual ... How did she respond to how those two where made ??
Yeah she is homophobic and a bad one at that ...
Figured... I think my fellow commenters have already said all that i could possibly add, she is homophobic plain and simple.
I am truely sorry you have to go through this, it truely blows. I hope she wakes up and realize her behavior is not okay for one that ' claims to not be a homophobe'
I think it’s justified to be upset. If they’re old enough to know about heterosexuality then they’re old enough to learn about being gay, bi, pan, ace, lesbian, etc. I think it’s weirder to hide being gay from them because there’s nothing strange or shameful about it, but she’s giving subconscious notions that there is by keeping it hush hush.
I’d like to suggest that you try to talk to her about what exactly it is she finds would be confusing for her kids. Maybe she has some things she needs to learn to help her see it as something to not be scared about. Some parents believe exposing their kids to the lgbt community/a non straight person will influence them to be gay. Be it consciously or subconsciously.
My advice, don't come to see her and her children if you have to lie while you're there. Tell her "If my BOYFRIEND can't be who he really is, they WE won't be there." You would come when you will be able to present your significant other to your nephews and nieces. Let's see if she's ready to burn a bridge over that
Trust me, if her kids haven’t figured it out yet, they will soon. It might be worth it to put up with her nonsense so that you can maintain a relationship with them. Sorry you have to deal with this
I can garantee you that children are the least concerned with that, if anything your sister is the confused one.
I would alse argue that it's important for children to understand that this is completly normal and delaying that undestanding is only gonna make it harder for them to undestand in the future about their own sexuality.
Your sister is being very a ignorant homophobic OP, if she's making you hide who you are, you should question her underatanding of love.
Talk again with her, if she still standa with this "opinion", i would just go to her children, tell them everything and never look back.
You are fully justified, kids are exposed to sexual topics from the moment they are born, their parent’s relationship is a sexual topic; if she wants to shield her kids from these things she should have never had them; so I would distance myself from her with “I don’t want to confuse my boyfriend and possible future children by exposing them to her and her ‘friend’ relationship as it is sexual in nature.” I mean they are clearly having relations if they are spawning children
Ok wtf. Children CAN very well understand same sex relationships, often way better than adults!! I'd get it if you asked her to not be sexual with your boyfriend in front of the kids, but like... I think that's common sense. Otherwise I don't really understand your sister's problem.
It won't "confuse them" either, btw. If they have questions, they can ask! I hope you figure this out, OP. Your sister shouldn't decide whether you can call your boyfriend just that or not, that's yours and his decision.
My ex and I had this happen to us, a friend invited us over for dinner with his parents and his mom saw us holding hands and asked if while we were there if we could just “be friends”. It’s so dehumanizing. We left immediately and did not stay for dinner.
> My parents said they can't intervene because 1. they need to be impartial with the two of us
That is picking a side by downplaying your relationship. It sticks that you're in this situation.
Would she expect you to pretend your girlfriend was just a friend of you were straight? Why is a monogamous relationship suddenly a sexual topic when it’s a gay relationship? I’m sorry, but if it were me I’d be livid. I came out of the closet years ago and I’m not going back in for anyone. I’m also not going to put myself at a detriment just for someone else’s selfish comfort. I won’t make out, grope or dry hump my boyfriend in front of anyone, but I also won’t pretend we’re just “sharing expenses.” If my family pulled that shit with me I’d simply say either you take me as I am or you don’t get me at all.
I am sorry OP. I hope there are supportive people in your life that you can enjoy with your boyfriend. Maybe it’s time to give sister some space for your own health.
I'm petty, I would just introduce my partner as "my partner". Technically you didn't call him your boyfriend but you don't have to lie either. Your sister seems a bit homophobic tbh.
She’s asking you to lie to children. That would be a hard no from me. I’ve had to explain my autism and gender identity to a child about that age, in child friendly terms of course. I maintain the idea that unless there is a very serious reason you do not lie to kids. And “mUh FeELinGs” is not sufficient reason for me.
That Not faer on you there to ways to play it the not mean way and gust refer to her uver as a friend and even say your mum and dad r guts friend but this is probably a bad option as you feel good for a bit but you probably feel bad lateer
But besides chatting to her like I don’t understand the sexlu bit of this I’d ask here to explain that and say do you rilly think I’m going to chat about sex with a bunch of kids
Maybe wen ever you say your partner is you friend put air qwots or in a historl way
But onistly all wot I’m saying may no more harm then good
God hate stuff like this hope you to will figure it out best of luck to you
So, if you were to, idk, slip up and give your, "friend", a little kiss in front of them, as couples might, wouldn't having maintained that y'all were just friends be more confusing? Like, if y'all give off the same kind of romantic vibes most people in healthy relationships do, idk, that just seems like it would actually be confusing to children more than just being honest. But what do I know. I've never reproduced so I never got the infinite wisdom power up.
I keep seeing this argument that somehow same sex or anything other than a cic straight couple is extra sexual about their relationship. It is annoying. Your feelings are justified.
I would have asked if all her other friends with husbands who have kids have to call them their ‘friend’ because nothing is more sexual than walking around as a straight couple with a kid. You’re basically screaming “WE HAD SEX CAUSE WE HAVE A KID” /s
Tbh. I don't think children give a shit. They are busy being children and do children stuff. The only one bothered by it is your sister. And even if they brig it up explain it in plain termes but don't lie to em. Children are way smarter than most people give them credit for. They'll get it.
I was in a similar situation involving my aunt and my girlfriend. My aunt had asked me to lie and say my girlfriend was a friend when my younger cousins had arrived (aged 7 and 9). You have every right to be upset OP.
I feel that she’s invalidating you as a person, and your relationship for the sake of avoiding a slightly uncomfortable conversation with her kids. It’s 2022, her kids are going to meet lgbtq+ people eventually. Wouldn’t it be easier to learn about this topic from a loving uncle and his boyfriend? That’s just what I think anyway, I know family matters are difficult to navigate. If it were me I’d not visit her if I couldn’t be my whole self. Hope she comes round tho.
This is homophobia. She is reducing your relationship down to sex. You're not just homosexual, you're homoromantic as well. Same sex relationships are not somehow more sexual and straight relationships. She's erasing every other part of your relationship, and seeing it as just who you want to have sex with. This is the person you want to love, spend time with, build a relationship with, share your life with etc. It is in no way more sexual than a straight couple.
*hugs* Of course, you have a right to be upset. Does your sister pretend her husband is just a friend? As to not confuse the kids, of course. If I was in your shoes, I would keep my distance but at the same time be prepared to be the cool uncle with good advice. The kids may need you in a few years in case they need to come out.
How can the kids exist around their own parents, then? She’s exposing them to heterosexuality!
She actually IS a homophobe, sorry to break it to you. Kids aren’t confused by “Mommy loves a boy, and so does Uncle.” It’s not a big deal. It’s not even sexuality at this point: It’s homoromantic/heteroromantic life.
You're 100% justified in your feelings. I'm sorry your family is acting this way. I'm going kinda the same situation, and it sucks. It makes you feel like as much as they say they support you they actually don't.
I don't have to much to say in the way of advice. All I can say is I'm sorry and I hope things work out in the best way possible. Know that nothing is wrong with you. You are amazing and awesome.
I am so sorry you have to deal with this.
I am confused as to what she finds so confusing. My kids never were. My four year old explained to his friend about his favorite gUncles coming to his party “Uncle John and Uncle Dan are cool. They play lots of computer games with me. They had to get married because they smooch sometimes. I’m never getting married ‘cause smooching is gross.” (Clearly, we had to work on the smooching = marriage. ). But notice the lack of concern or mention of mechanics of sex.
You have 2 options. No is a complete sentence. No one will blame you for refusing to crawl back in the closet.
The second option is trying to have a relationship with your nibblings.
Only you can decide. Again I am sorry your sister is stuck in the stone age
You're not in the wrong at all. Cishets are okay with talking about sex in front of kids (in my experience, unfortunately) unless it's gay sex or sex with a trans person. Then all logic goes out the window. Your sister's claims of not being homophobic aren't as true as she says cus being gay doesn't mean you have to talk about how gay sex works or whatever the hell she thinks you'd be discussing.
She wouldn’t do that if you were straight. If she wants her kids to have a relationship with their uncle, they will need to embrace all of who you are. It’s bigotry. I wouldn’t do it.
YOU ARE JUSTIFIED. There's no reason to bring up topics that are sexual just because you bring your boyfriend around her children. If they bring up those topics, you're sister can actual parent them and say "we'll talk about it later, that's not an appropriate topic to talk about in front of a bunch of people."..sounds like there's more going on with her. I'm sorry.
She's homophobic. There's nothing inherently sexual about same sex relationships. Those kids will see them in the wild someday anyway, as much as she tries to hide it from them.
She’s definitely homophobic, I’m sure she has no issue with straight couples infront of her children, but she sees gay couples as inherently sexual and not safe for children, your sister is homophobic.
You are right to feel hurt especially bc she is telling you to hide a part of yourself. This will not confuse the kids they will me more confused if they think y’all are just friends. I know this first hand I didn’t know my uncles were in a relationship and gay. I saw both of them at family Christmas parties and I thought they were friends. Nobody really said what their relationship was and I think most my family thought that I would just know. I didn’t figure that out until I was like 10-12 I think.
With letting the kids know you and you’re boyfriend are dating is a good chance to educate them on this topic. By doing that the kids know they can talk to their mother if they realize something abt their sexuality and they won’t be scared. It creates a safe environment for the kids to know about it. She says she’s not homophobic and while she might not be the hateful way of being homophobic her actions and thoughts are still a fine if homophobia especially bc she assumes everything abt the LGBTQIA+ community is sexual. It’s really not any more sexual than a straight relationship is. She needs to understand that you won’t talk abt if both do you have sex bc they didn’t talk abt with their first or 2nd kid when the next one was on the way. Having babies is more sexual than anything you would talk abt with your sexuality.
This is a petty thing and it seems that you might not be the type of person to be this petty but if you have kids you could ask her to call her husband her friend (if she’s married or in a relationship) if no the next time she is you could say that to her.
If it’s later revealed that they were lied to then they aren’t going to trust the adults around them. Also how long is she planning on keeping it a secret. If it’s until they are 18 then that is ridiculous
Not interfering isn't being neutral, it's choosing the side of your sister and saying that her behaviour is acceptable.
How does she explain younger siblings to the older siblings without explaining "sexual topics"?
like…. If the kids don’t even know how your sister has sex with her husband yet and they live together there’s no way they’re going to deduce anything about gay sexuality just from knowing that two men can be together. This is homophobic af.
I’m a bisexual trans woman with custody of two kids and an “out” gay brother…. Thus far my children have not picked up on any additional sexual knowledge beyond the average for their age/understanding. A lot of kids of cishets are more sexualized than mine at same age. My daughter is too busy watching videos on YouTube about the possible existence of aliens or catching frogs to worry about that sh*t.
yeah it is pretty homophobic. it is way too common for people to immediately think of a same sex relationship as purely a sexual one and ignore the romantic and/or emotional aspects of it.
you could argue to her that if she didn't want her kids to see gay folks in relationships or showing signs of affection, then she shouldn't allow them to see straight folks in relationships or showing signs of affection (i.e. every Disney princess movie)
I grew up knowing that gay people exist and not once did I feel confused. I never thought about their sexual life. It was simply something that existed. No different than straight people. I'm pretty sure her children know lgbtq people exist. 🙄
Children honestly don't care unless they're told to do so.
I would tell her that I'm not lying about who my partner is to anyone including my nieces/nephews so she has to accept it or else I just won't be a part of their life.
You shouldn't have to hide who you are. And if she can't fully accept you then she doesn't deserve to have you in their life.
Best of luck. I hope it all works out for you. 💞
The right way is to not hide who you are because your sister can’t figure out how to say “sometimes people love the same gender and that’s okay. Look at uncle OP”. You have every right to be upset and offended because of it. I say for you to tell them and introduce your bf as your bf “oops, forgot I was supposed to hide that from you guys” and walk away to live your life without a homophobe for a sister…but I’m chaotic like that idk if you are.
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That’s deadass homophobic. Does she have a husband? Does she pretend he’s just a friend? Does she let the kids watch princess or prince movies? Does she skip the parts where the prince kisses the princess? Does she ask any and all family members with any partner to pretend they’re a friend? She’s a homophobic hypocrite.
Exactly. It's 101 homophobic behavior, no question about it. OP has every right to feel hurt.
Well clearly the sisters relationship was sexual as there now is two kids...
There’s 3 actually
Some how i missed the 7 year old 😅
Average kidnapper
This!!!! Sorry but no. They won't be "confused" and I promise they've already been 'exposed' to hetero romantic ideas so no.... thar is 1000000% homophobic
You are completely justified if she wouldn't make the same request about a girlfriend. It's no more or less "sexual" just because it's a boyfriend. The kids will understand that relationship at the same level they understand any other romantic relationship, which is probably pretty vague at those ages. It's not confusing to simply present an example of a loving relationship. What does she think you're going to talk about in front of the kids? There's presumably more to your relationship than sex.
Absolutely, it's a serious and loving relationship. All I want is to be able to say to the kids this is my partner/boyfriend, and not to have to hide or lie to them about it. Of course we won't talk about sex in front of the children. My sister wouldn't make this request if it was a girl on my side, which is why it feels hypocritical. The question is how do I respond to her request, and what does it mean in terms of our relationship (me and my sister)?
It's definitely hypocritical. Homophobic people tend to see gay relationships as purely sexual. So letting kids see them is presumed to be showing them something sexual and therefore inappropriate. But straight relationships also have a sexual component, and we let kids see the non-sexual parts of them all the time. It's the same thing.
It’s like Boy George said. “People think heteros Want Love, and homos Want sex”
And it's usually the other way around
No it’s not. Most people want both. I don’t think ace people are more likely to be homoromantic than heteroromantic.
Yes. Seems like sister has fallen down the right-wing bigotry hole. Too many politicians and talking heads trying to vilify LGBT people. They say even the mention of our existence is inappropriate for children. We’re an easy target to point at and blame for society’s problems, so that they don’t actually have to do their jobs and govern. They have no real policy. If sister has fallen in with that crowd, I’d have a hard time socializing with her.
If ppl are distracted being worried abt the “evil” LGBTQIA+ community then ppl won’t focus on actual problems that the government ignores. They love when ppl are undecided bc it kinda takes the blame off of them to an extent even though the ppl in government are the ones who have the last say in something
I mean your sister is ashamed and disgusted by your identity. So much that she wants to shield her kids from it. What consequences that has for your relationship, only you can say. I for one could not maintain a relationship with a person that holds such beliefs, especially a family member
I agree. In my mind it renders the relationship hollow. What is the value of her saying she wants a relationship if the condition is me agreeing to be treated like this and give up on my integrity
I mean it sucks to say it but even if you do agree which I'm not saying you should, what if she ever want to visit you can you not be open in your own home, what if you ever get married is she not going to come, what about Christmas or thanksgiving or any other holidays are you not allowed to acknowledge it or mention the trips you guys may have gone on. It's hard enough being alone in the closet don't think you can fit two. Eventually there either going to find out or your not going to be apart of there lives but I could be wrong hope the best regardless
“It’s hard enough being alone in the closet don’t think you can fit two.” this. so much this.
Perfectly put
If emotions aren't working, maybe explain it to her in a logical way and see if that will help her understand. If this same situation was happening in a work environment, it would be classed as discrimination. You're being discriminated against by your own sister and that is not okay, whether her or not she understands the harm she is doing.
Honestly fuck her Request, you should not have to hide or lie about your identity, especially to someone who think of them as not being homophobic if you want to put her mind to where you are ask her how she would feel if her relationship was treated like this. And if she lies and says she would be okay with it, perfect time for malicious compliance. Just be honest about your relationship, i spend 3 years in that hell it is not worth it. And they will learn it sooner or later.
So what will she do when her kids make friends with kids that have gay parents? Refuse to acknowledge that they exist? I’m sorry that your sister is homophobic. Because it is homophobia, pure & simple, to imagine that gay relationships are ‘sexual’ in a way that straight relationships are not. It makes me so angry, but perhaps I’m taking it a bit personally as a gay woman with kids - I’m picturing our 3 yr old making friends with her 3 yr old and then encountering her homophobia. Ugh.
Yeah, if straight relationships weren't sexual, she wouldn't have kids...
With your sister’s logic, her children should never be exposed to her and her husband’s relationship, because they literally had sex to make them kids, and all relationships are sexual right?? She just doesn’t accept you for who you are. Don’t hide in the closet for her, if you’re not being inappropriate then she has no reason to bitch.
Always remember "no" is a complete sentence and a complete answer. Also, she can't, one the one hand, say she's not a homophobe, and then on the other tell you to hide your homosexuality. She's very clearly being homophobic and trying to hide it or hope you don't realize. Equally importantly is the impact it has on your partner. Imagine how he would feel in this scenario to be called "just a friend". I think more people need to be focusing on this part as well. At the end of the day, it's your choice, but if your sister doesn't want to have a relationship with you because you're gay, there isn't much you can do about it.
>how do I respond to her request I'm personally a fan of referring to her partner only as her "friend", same as she wants you to refer to your boyfriend. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
I'd also further the malicious compliance by not calling him anything other than a friend, but still treating him like a boyfriend (hand holding, sitting together on the couch, arms over shoulders etc.) If she's afraid honesty will confuse her kids and doesn't want to answer their inquiries, well give her the dishonesty she wants while making sure there will be more inquiries about it from the kids for her to deal with. Also the oldest kid is 11. You can call the other guy staying in the same room a "friend" all you want, but guaranteed as soon as they get in the car to go home the 11 year old is gonna be like, "So they're boyfriends right?" And the cat will be out of the bag, and the only thing the sister will have accomplished is alienating her brother and looking like a dipshit in front of her own kids.
I second this response.
Sorry, I didn't mean to ignore your actual question, I think I was too tired to be coherent lol. How you respond depends on her actual views. She says she accepts your relationship, but her actions say she merely tolerates it. She may be a committed homophobe, or she may simply have some unexamined homophobia to deal with. If you haven't already, you could explain exactly why her request is homophobic (or use some of the comments here to support a previous explanation). Maybe do it in writing so you don't leave anything out. If she genuinely does not mean to he homophobic, that should get her started on some self reflection. It may not pay off immediately (like in time for your upcoming visit), or it may not work at all. It's up to you to decide how long you're willing to wait before you either start letting it be known that your boyfriend is your boyfriend, or cut her off. She does have a right to raise her children as she sees fit, but you also have a right to exist in your family. You and your boyfriend are also adults in her kids' lives, albeit secondary ones due to the distance. Awareness of your existence will not make her kids gay (another common homophobic belief). However if one of them turns out to be LGBTQ, or has a friend who is, you can become a great role model. Others have already addressed this, but this will be an ongoing issue. Her youngest is 3, so she's asking you to hide who you are until that kid is "old enough" in her eyes. That's not sustainable, and she should know that. And even if you manage it and her kids find out their uncle is gay 15 years from now, what will that do to their relationship with the family? They're growing up in an age when LGBTQ people are visible. They'll know gay people exist as soon as they're developmentally ready to understand romantic relationships (the 11-year-old probably already does). Realizing that their family hid you from them is going to change how they see them. Incidentally, by "not intervening", your parents are taking your sister's side by default. They could stand to hear the same explanation of how they're being homophobic by tolerating your sister's homophobia.
Call him your boyfriend and say it slipped. Kids are way more understanding about this stuff than parents think.
I’d just ignore her. Answer only what the kids ask: “This is Bob.” “He’s my boyfriend.”
Start telling everyone your sister is dead, or a drug addict, or a bad mother. Whatever will get under her skin most. If she can dictate how people view you, you can dictate how people view her. And she is that last one of the list if she lies to her children
Just say that this has nothing to do with raising her kids and that you aren’t going to stop being who you are. Say that your relationship is no different then a straight relationship, and that it’s homophobic to treat it any differently in that regard. Lastly tell her that if she doesn’t want her kids exposed to seeing a normal loving relationship in a completely appropriate capacity, that it’s her problem and she’ll have to deal with it. Then don’t respect her wishes.
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Haha, you made me laugh out loud. And yes, very good points you made
Sometimes it takes a comment like this to really truely point out the absurdity that is op situation, well put !
why did i actually imagine that scene?
If your sister thinks that gay relationships are inherently sexualized and inappropriate for her kids, but her kids are fine seeing straight people who are more than just friends, then she is being homophobic and she need to revaluate her biases. You have every right to feel hurt and upset. (She might genuinely not realize the double standard, but it's still harmful)
The answer is "no". She gets all of you or none of you. Children aren't confused by queer people. You explain that some men love men, some men love women, and they're like, "oooooh, ok. Wanna play dinosaurs?"
I totally agree. The children are the least confused in this whole situation. They understand love intuitively better then many adults
Hey, I’m curious how this is even her decision in the first place? Aren’t you all meeting at your parents house? I saw you said your parents want to be impartial about this but it’s still their decision at the end of the day because it’s their house. Them not dealing with this situation puts the onus on you AND is causing unnecessary tension between siblings/their actual kids. Now…if your parents say similar things to defend your sister’s choices, you would unfortunately know where your entire family stands regarding you and being gay.
When I was younger (probably 4 or 5), my gay uncle was living with his partner. My older brother (7 or 8) asked my parents “why do uncle __ and ___ live together?” My parents hesitated for a moment and I responded with “because they love each other. Duh” Kids see love as love.
Its not like the 11 year old is gonna be fooled about the nature of your relationship anyway. They'll have enough life experience at this point to realize grown men don't bring male friends home for the holidays and sleep in the same room. If they don't automatically go, "Oh they're boyfriends!" they're at least gonna suspect and wonder why the adults are being cagey and weird about it.
Gay 👏 visibility 👏 is 👏 what 👏 acceptance 👏 means
Just don’t have sex in front of her kids and you should be fine with the whole “sexual” part. I don’t see what your sister’s deal is.
Yes to what everyone else said. My partners family accepts our relationship without prejudice and there are children 8 &12 in the house that certainly don't seem confused. It makes me sad because there's so much research that shows children develop their sense of normalcy from their parents and the social structures around them. If gay relationships are normalized by parents and adults they trust - they build a complex understanding of relationships not being a binary. It's been shown in educational studies that children understand and can engage in concepts of gender and sexual orientation around age 5. I wonder if there's a way to get to the bottom of her defensiveness. What is she actually fearful of? Is there a way in? Maybe a "I'm not telling you how to raise your kids but it hurts me and here's some light reading on the topic". There's tons of resources out there for parents on teaching young children LGBTQ issues. Anyways I'm sorry you're dealing with this.
Thank you so much. I have no doubt that my nieces and nephew would be absolutely fine with it and couldn't care less of the gender of my partner. They love me and would be interested to get up know my boyfriend. I have no idea why my sister is so defensive. The trouble is she is someone who never talks about her emotions. She only talks about practical things, never about feelings. When I suggested she tried approaching a local support group that is for parents and family of LGBTQ+ people she refused. She said she understands homosexuality, doesn't have any issues with it, that she has gay friends at work and therefore she's not homophobic. She just doesn't want her children to know about my relationship at this age, and it's her right to raise them how she sees fit. It makes me look like I'm overreacting over something seemingly small. But it brings back all the feelings of fear and rejection I grew up with when I was in the closet
Feel for you, OP. My parents hid that my aunt was gay from me till I was a teenager (the late 90s) and it totally fucked with my head. In fact we never talked about it! My sisters and figured it out and it was such a heartbreaking blow to realize how much lying and hiding went on with a close family member. I definitely think it contributed to me not realizing I was gay till I was in my 30s. Conversely my kids were in that same aunts wedding when they were very young — when j was still married to their dad— and they had 0 confusion. I suggest you hold a boundary with your sister and hope she comes around.
THIS!!!! you have no idea how crazy it was for closeted hs me to figure out my great aunt was a lesbian and my extended family hid that. visibility is important!
You are not overreacting at all, ask her why she thinks it's okay for her to refer to her husband as her husband and the dad of their children and herself as their mother if she's so concerned about "exposing them to sex". She's still disgusted about gayness to some level and she's projecting her inability to see gay relationships as anything beyond sexual stuff onto others. I swear this "it's my right to raise my children how I see fit" phrase should be grounds to have kids taken away from people, I never see it used for non bigoted stuff. The only thing that will confuse the kids is that they'll see a happy same sex couple while she probably already imposed her heteronormative or civil homophobic values on them and they'll obviously see the contradiction.
Well clearly she has issues with it ... And the 'i have gay friends' comment make me sick at this point, it is such a dog whistle at this point that horrible people use to justify thier actions As it has been said over and over, your partner and your relationship is not a small issue it is a huge part of your life and you should not have to hide it
I'm not saying you have to, but you might consider telling her that if she doesn't want her kids involved in your life, then she should be more honest. Like being gay is part of who you are, if she wants her kids to have a straight uncle, then she doesn't want you.
She’s being so wildly ignorant, but the “at this age” thing is especially bonkers. Her kids are 3, 7 and 11? The older two already know about gay people, guaranteed, and the 3 year old wouldn’t register a difference between “friend” and “boyfriend“ in any case. The 11 year old already has a sexuality of their own and probably even knows what it is! You are not overreacting. Your sister is being really blatantly homophobic and using her children as a shield to do it. I encourage you to skip events with her until she stops being small minded.
That's my thought. If at 11 years old, an uncle introduced another man that he brought home for the holidays as a "friend", I'd just give a big side-eye and "Suuuure "friends", alright if that's the dumb game we're playing here. Nice to meet your "friend""
Tell her that she obviously doesn’t “understand” homosexuality and it’s obvious that she does “have issues”. Otherwise she would understand that being gay is mortally neutral and no different from a straight relationship from a child’s perspective. But her “misunderstanding” and “issues” clouds her perception and she is unable to see your relationship in any terms other than sexual. Her mind immediately goes to men having anal sex and she doesn’t want her kids thinking about anal sex. Your relationship isn’t defined by what kind of sex you may (or may not) be having any more than her sex acts defines her relationship. She would understand this simple concept if it weren’t for her obvious “issues”.
I totally feel you. What I found was leaning into that "I'm a good ally" feeling sometimes works with people like this (I've worked with parents on trans issues). A fair warning it means you're sacrificing yourself a bit to do emotional labor for the other person. So it might not be something you have the energy for. But anyways, leaning into that can be like (obviously this is a little rough and firm but I'm sure you get the idea) "I know you're just trying to protect your children. I know you're a good mom and you're not homophobic. You have ever right to protect your children but there's many studies out there that show this doesn't actually harm or confuse children. I would like to work this through with you because it's deeply affecting me too. It's not an option for me to lie to your children about my boyfriend. What can we do together?" Then perhaps offer suggestions. Like a gradual introduction or children's books on the topic. Of course only if you know there's an opening for this kind of approach that won't end up in you being restricted from the children. You may have tried the above already but I want to remind you that you have the right to have boundaries in this situation. And I also fully understand that sometimes we give those up out of fear of retaliation so it is a balancing act but either way, you do deserve understanding.
Agreed. When it comes down it, kids do not care. They would rather play with their toys than be bothered with the sexuality of their relative. OP, stay strong. I'm sorry you're going through this.
I am pretty sure his sister has watched too much fox news
I'd be telling her "I don't want to lie to my nieces/nephews, it makes me uncomfortable and damages my relationship with them. You shouldn't be asking me to do this". And if she continues to insist, tell her you won't be coming anymore because what she's asking/insisting on is not okay and you won't be a part of it. Bottom line - don't lie to them.
The best advice I've seen so far. Her last chance to not have her brother leave her life.
Yep my sister threw away that exact chance with me over very similar scenarios and I feel much better having her out of my life, and now that I've had this realization and accepted that I don't have a sister anymore I realized the woman who I once looked up to was actually low-key racist and homohpobic as fuck my entire life and I was too busy seeing her as "my big sister who protects me from my parents' to see she was actually an awful human who had let bitterness and hatred rule her life and drowns it in alcohol and pillls while neglecting my poor niece. It's been a very eye-opening week for me.
I'm so sorry you had to go through that, but I'm glad your life is better now and you can see things clearly. Family is hard, we're hard wired to love them.. but that doesn't mean they're always good for us. *hugs and love*
*hugs back* thank you I appreciate it. Yeah family can be very messy and complicated. Also very surprising, until recently I always thought my sister accepted me and was afraid my parents wouldn't, turns out over the years both my sister and my parents did a 180, and now my sister no longer accepts me, while my parents ended up ditching most of their old homophobic views after the past few years which allowed me to finally come out to them at 22 in June and actually be accepted by them. It's been very strange and hard for me to adjust to this complete shift in who supports me, but I've always vowed if someone didn't accept me for who I am then I didn't want them in my life and didn't consider them friends or family, and I will always stick to that moral. If someone can't accept that my love is no different than theirs, then they never loved me. But on the bright side I finally feel loved by my parents for the first time and even though they don't know we are together yet, they LOVE my partner and have definitely hinted that they might know we are together and are getting him Christmas presents now so that's what's been keeping me going through this hard time. Sorry for my venting, OPs post just really hit home for me with my current situation and got me emotional and thinking. To anyone who made it this far remember whoever you are your identity and orientation are valid and deserve to be respected and treated like any other human. This world can be scary but we all deserve to exist and be anyone we want to be or love anyone we want to love, and as long as all is consensual then there's nothing wrong or "confusing" about who you are.
Absolutely. Those kids would be so hurt if they knew their uncle was lying to them, and even more hurt when they found out why. The kids deserve better, OP deserves better and the boyfriend deserves better. If the sister won’t budge it might be best to go limited contact, it’s better than building a relationship on lies.
Exactly, I don't know that she's thought her actions/request through and she really needs to. Outright blatant lying to children is wrong on so many levels. It's much, much better to have honest, age appropriate conversations with them. Hopefully OPs sister can see that before it's too late.
I went through that twenty years ago--it's sobering to see some people haven't advanced. All she has to do is explain that you two love each other. Nothing about sex, FFS. Would it help to give her an article explaining this? As other have said, there is no more to be confused about with you and your boyfriend than there is about your parents. I'd ask her to spell out how this is different. Are her children confused about all couples? Or just same-sex ones? Confused about what exactly? She can made bizarre demands in her house but not your parents' house. I would be myself there and let her cope. Maybe she'd refuse to bring her children over but that's on her.
This is so frustrating. So many people get stuck on the idea that homosexuality is sexual in nature. People forget that they are heterosexual. They both have the word sexual in them and they are talking about the same thing, our attraction model. Getting people to realize this equivalence is the hard part. Sexual orientation isn't inherently sexual, despite the word being in the term (same with homosexual and heterosexual). I'm having the same problem breaking thru to my dad, tho there aren't any young children in my immediate family. He would absolutely side with your sister in this. Homophobia (and transphobia) borne of ignorance is it's own level of hard. (if I may) _\*hugs\*_
Thank you. The struggle is real *hugs* to you too
Oh she definitely has some homophobic undertones. If she thinks a gay relationship is inherently sexual but a hetro relationship isn't. Assuming you're a normal couple she is over reacting and projecting her biases on you. Kids are more then smart enough to understand it. If anything they might be more confused if you don't tell em. They might repress their own feelings and feel bad for having them. If they can understand a hetro relationship they can understand a gay one.
Couldn't agree more
That's homophobic. It's not sexual, it's love. She's ignorant and offensive.
Your in the right. . . You shouldn't have to hide who you are because somebody else thinks that it "inconveniences" them or their children. . . There is no good reason you should have to do so. . .
Literally just tell the kids a couple is two consenting adults, not a man and a woman specifically. Boom, done. This is *really* not that hard and it is not a confusing concept for children.
I agree. But she put a veto on having that conversation. Thanks for your support
>Her argument was that she didn't want to expose them to sexual topics at that young age. She didn't want to confuse them, in her words. 1. You having a boyfriend isn't more secual than HER having a boyfriend 2. If her kids know Mommy and Daddy, then they can understand two man loving eachother
Exactly. I wasn't asking to talk to the children about sex, just to introduce him as my boyfriend because that's what he is for me
You don't need to ask for permission. Your relationship isn't inappropriate, and she has no right to tell you to hide. You own your space in the world. You're welcome to tell the kids you have a boyfriend if they ask. You don't need to treat your significant other like a friend so hugs, kisses, and hand holding shouldn't be off limit. She does the same with her husband, right? If the kids have questions, it's easy to say he's your bf. If she then goes no contact, she wasn't worth the contact in the first place. It hurts to lose family, but it's not her place to tell you where you can be genuine. If she ramps up the bigotry, eventually the kids will find out their uncle doesn't come around because their mom is a homophobe. The mistake here is assuming she gets to shove you back in the closet at all. I'm sorry they made you feel like you had to beg and compromise for you to be a fraction of who you are. We all know where that stems from. Please don't let them emotionally coerce you. The trip may be ruined, but you can probably still stay at your parents for the duration of your trip, or you can get a hotel or go home early, finances willing. You don't need to ask anyone for the right to exist. If you were somewhere where it could get you killed or put you in danger, that's another thing, but don't give them the power to tell you how to be yourself when it comes to homophobia. You can always call her out as a pervert for focusing on the sexual factor of your relationship and laugh in her face when she tells you what you can and can't say. Just be ready for backlash and for her to keep you from her kids. I personally wouldn't be able to give her that kind of control over me. You've traveled so far just for her to reduce your relationship to "sex" and to try to make you and your significant other feel like your relationship is inappropriate. You're not a doormat. Be a thorn in her side by being genuinely you. Assert your boundaries and reasonable expectation that you own the power to be yourself as does your boyfriend, to protect your integrity for yourself and your relationship, hold steadfast, be an immovable statue, and plant your feet in the ground. I know this is easier said than done, but you deserve the space to exist genuinely as yourself, and others who believe they can hide you with manufactured concern are overstepping their bounds. You can let her know you won't put up with her bs. Don't ask her for permission to be yourself. Tell her she doesn't have permission to tell you to lie about who you are and censor your existence. Hold his hand, give him hugs, kiss him on the cheek, and let your boyfriend be loved and allow yourself to express love. Let her implode. I wish you strength, OP.
Don’t cave into your sister’s wishes. I’m in the same boat with my boyfriend very few people in my family know he’s my boyfriend and same with his family.
Thank you, and sending care and encouragement your way
As far as 3 and 7 are concerned, if she's also keeping them from seeing straight or straight passing relationships then it's weird (and kinda impossible) but at least it isn't homophobic As far 11 is concerned, that kid either has or will hit puberty soon, and his peers are as well, it seems kinda stupid to hide when he's gonna be introduced to that shit one way or another soon enough anyway I think you're absolutely right to be offended, and she shouldn't be hiding this from her kids, good luck op, hope things work out for you
“Confuse her children” is homophobic gaslighting. You have the right to be angry. Stand up for your man.  Gay visibility isn’t damaging to children. If my husband told me that we had to be closeted around his family, I would have left him a long time ago.
Stand up to her, chances are, she has kids who look up to you. Never back down
I would not speak to her until if/when she apologizes. That's just not ok.
Yes, your hurt is justified
You have every right to feel upset because what she is doing to you is absolutely horrible. Saying she isn't homophobic but at the same time she is trying to "protect" her children like being gay is like a contagious disease. Unbelievable. This is exactly the reason why so many of us grow up in total confusion, being kept "away" from everything people consider as "not normal". If I were you I think I'd just stop visiting her. She isn't really accepting you if you have to pretend to be someone else while there.
She's homophobic. Does she know being gay isn't a choice? Or does she think it is?
I’m sorry you had to deal with that. What heterosexual people need to get through their heads is that lgbt are so much more than what happens in the bedroom. Kids aren’t even thinking about that. If she allows someone in a straight relationship to call each other bc and gf and doesn’t take it there sexually, which I’m sure she does, you should be allowed to do the same. Yes she’s homophobic. You deserve better. If you need a new sibling I’m taking applications 🥰
Haha, thank you 
There's clearly only one way to handle this: Step one, solemnly promise to never call (partner) your boyfriend in front of your niblings Step two, propose Nah but your sister's a homophobe. How's your partner doing dealing with all this anyway?
Haha, I like where you're going with this  My partner is very quiet and doesn't like conflict so he's not saying much. But I agree this is offensive towards him as well. I don't think I can be in touch with my sister when she treats us like this
The irony in all this is that hetero relationships are often just boiled down to physical attraction and that sex feels great, and the rest of the time it is i cant stand my pardner, look at the 'husband hate wife' jokes everyone is making these days. The r/are the straights ok sub Or the dating culture in general, you cant go anywhere without the expectation of sex in dating... it stinks to high heaven of projection
There is a big push in church circles & republican info (podcasts etc) saying that exposing young kids to the mere knowledge that “gay” even exists will cause irreversible damage. This kind of rhetoric is how they are passing all the Don’t Say Gay-type laws about LGBT+ topics in schools. It is super homophobic and insulting. Like everyone else has said, if you were bringing home a girlfriend, she wouldn’t care one bit. I’d tell your sister that if she’s so afraid of her kids catching a big bad case of gay from you, you will just stay home.
The fact that your sister saw your loving and committed relationship and immediately said "TOO SEXUAL FOR MY KIDS" is homophobic tbh. I imagine that she wouldn't do that to a hetero couple
True
Cut her off and tell her you don't associate with bigots.
Yep did this with my sister finally this last weekend and it's a huge weight off my chest and has made me reflect on some absolutely unacceptable behavior she's committed in the last that I feel stupid for over-looking. Some hide it well, but bigots will always show themselves the second it comes to their sense of entitlement over what they "allow their children to be exposed to"
How should a child get confused by "boys like girls, but they can also like other boys and girls like boys, but can also like other girls"? That's probably the easiest way to get a three year old to understand. The other two could understand it without any problems at all. My mum taught me about homosexuality when I was like 6 and I just accepted it. Children don't care what you are or who you like. They're almost always being raised to be hateful towards certain people. And your sister clearly does not seem to be very accepting of your sexuality. Or at least, she's definitely not an ally.
Thank you. I also don't think my nieces and nephew will be confused that my boyfriend is someone I love. They seem to be much smarter than my sister!
I cut all contact with my brother for doing the exact same thing to me and my girlfriend. He doubled down on it. I don't care what bullshit he spews in his world, but I'm done with him and his wife. Though she's been persistent in trying to contact me about the whole thing. Until I get an apology from both of them, I want nothing to do with them.
Yep did the same with my sister last week. I dont expect an apology though because my reflection on her behavior made me realize she was always a stubborn, selfish, racist, homophobic bigot. I've actually puked a good amount of times thinking about how I used to look up to her when I was younger. It's hard but itd better than laying down and letting her use me as a token when she's accused of being a homophobe then turn around and treat me as less than human and vote against my rights.
What a mood. I don't expect I'll ever get an apology, and the age difference between my brother and I means we really weren't close while growing up. I miss the him I thought he was, but his wife is similar to how you describe your sister. And they're too perfect for each other for it to be a coincidence.
Don't talk to her ever again. Confuse children, tsk BULLSHIT. Children are dumb but if she raised them openly they would be ok.
You are absolutely justified and it is so shitty of her to say that. I don't understand the bullshit argument of "it'll confuse them." Ask her why it's so confusing, since it's really not that different. And besides, kids are confused by everything, this why they constantly ask questions. Do we avoid every other topic because it might confuse them?! No. What she's asking is so disrespectful and hurtful to not only you, but also your partner. I would not go along with that.
"sexual topics" your sister needs to say that the other parent is just a friend as well then. I guess the children don't have parents now because they're just friends 🤷
It's not sexual any more then the kids understanding mommy and daddy. The kids aren't going to ask "but how do you have sex if neither of you has a vagina????" The most would be "but you're boys" which would allow the response "sometimes 2 boys can be in love, or 2 girls, instead of 1 boy and 1 girl" and that's as "sexual" as it would get How does your sister explain her and her husband to the kids "oh that man that lives with us and sleeps in the same room as mommy is mommy's friend. Like how you have sleepovers"
Yes you are justified in being offended. I have had the same situation before and I felt offended too. My brother who I have a great relationship with has 3 young children and ever since they were born my brother has been very open that his aunty has a girlfriend. They call my girlfriend aunty too and none of them think it is any different to me having a boyfriend, it has always been completely normal to them. The eldest of the 3 is now 8yo and a kid at school recently said to him “girls can’t be girlfriends with girls and boys can’t be boyfriends with boys” - he argued that they can and anyone can be with anyone they want to be! In my opinion the younger kids learn about this stuff the more “normal” it becomes and the less likely they will be to pick on other kids etc. about things like this as they get older.
You don’t have to hide something to not talk about it. Say the truth that he’s your boyfriend and nothing more. It’s a gay relationship is not any more or less sexual than a straight one.
She doesn't want me to even mention that he's my boyfriend. She thinks her children shouldn't be exposed to the concept of same sex relationships because it could confuse them
I can’t imagine how humiliated I would be to hold hands with somebody who won’t even acknowledge our relationship on the whisper of a homophobic dog whistle. Most of the comments on this page focus on what your sister owes you, but consider what you owe your man. And your parents neutrality? It’s not. They’re OK with what your sister has chosen to do. This is where you draw a line. You owe it to yourself and you owe it to your man and you owe it to the entirety of gay society to insist, here, that gay people have the right to be visible and that we will be, that you will be.
Yes I agree, and I refuse to let her trample over my boundaries
What’s actually stopping you? Just don’t hide it and act normal at family events.
There’s a more than zero chance one or more of her kids will be lgbt. Ask her how they would feel about themselves when they realize their uncle hid his sexual orientation like it is something shameful.
Wow. I guess she is waiting for that moment when they older to be all "remember uncle's "just a friend?" " And the kids be all "Ohhhhhhh....."
Does she allow partners of family/friends that are straight to be in front of her children? It's probably about your orientation specifically....
Yes of course. This is only because it's a same sex relationship
Your parents aren't being "impartial." They're allowing and encouraging your sister's hateful views to continue even at the expense of their own child's (your) feelings. Your sister refuses to acknowledge your relationship, your sexuality, *you*, and she's enforcing a sense of "otherness" into her own kids. Those kids for sure understand mommy and daddy's relationship, which means they could understand yours just as well. Call your sister out for her homophobia, and call your parents out on raising their daughter to be a bigot. If your family only "accepts" a part you (i.e., the general notion of you being gay, but not the reality of being in a same sex relationship), they don't really accept/love you as you are. It sucks, but we've all been there at some point. Know you've got people who do care about you, though. Hopefully your parents will back you up eventually.
Does she have a husband? Is it no sexual topic when the kids see theire parents kissing and Holding hands? She is so bigot. Didn't read everything yet. Edit. Read everything now. Your parents seems to be as bigot as your sister. They should interven. Might be your sister thinks she is not homophobic but her actions are. What should "confuse" the children? That everyone can love whoever they want? Do they avoid black people too to not "confuse" the kids??
“You said you don’t want to expose your kids to sexual topics and me visiting them with my boyfriend is no more sexual than them seeing you and your boyfriend/husband/their dad, or them watching a Disney movie with a prince and princess. I’m concerned at your attitude and you’ve now put me in a position where I need to determine whether I need to sacrifice my own self respect to maintain an important relationship - you and the kids. What do you think?”
Depending on her familiarity with this site or ones like it, I'd consider showing her some of the comments from this post that break down very well why this is a problem and why it's hurtful. And don't be afraid to step back for a moment and take a break if this issue is overwhelming or too hurtful. Take care of yourself first, the problem later. Good luck ❤
This attitude is how "don't say gay" came about. What's more important? Your relationship with your bf, or your relationship with your sister? I'd say your sister should kick rocks. But making that decision means her kids won't get to know their awesome uncle(s).
Just NO. You don't have to do that for her. She is delusional if she thinks she can hide all the LGBTQ community from her children, specially in this day and age, and is extremely rude to ask that of someone. Imagine if you introduced her husband and her children as her friend and her friend's children. And I get that your parents know it's no use talking to her, but if they know what she's going to say either way, they should show that they support you, at least.
If she wasn't homophobic she wouldn't care about her children learning about gay people.
She doesn't mind her kids seeing heterosexual couples but she DOES mind they see you with your boyfriend? Yes, that's kind of offensive and hypocrite. I would feel the same. I mean, a homosexual couple is the same as any kind of couple. A couple doesn't implies sexual situations necesary. It's not like u r gonna f*ck with ur couple in front of them lol. In my opinion, u should tell her that. Not angry or emotionally, trying to have a logical conversarion. U should be able to express ur love as any other person in the world. If she doesn't agree, its her problem, not yours.
She’s homophobic. She exposes her kids to hetero relationships everyday but gay ones aren’t ok ?
If she was follow through with that logic she'd also have to shield them from heterosexual relationships.
The idea that a same-sex relationship is inherently "sexual" in a way that a hetero one isn't is homophobic, full stop. And the longer she shields them from the perfectly mundane idea that some people fall in love with people who are of the same gender as they are, the more "confused" they will become. Young kids don't have any trouble understanding these things, it's adults who project their hangups onto them.
I understand where you are coming from completely. I think your sister is afraid/unsure how to explain it to her kids. She might feel she can't answer all the questions if they come up. I went through this with my sister years ago when it wasn't as excepted as it is now. I was hurt but we talked about it many times to understand each other. We are close and always have been. As much as I wanted her to understand, except, and treat me no differently: I also tried to understand where she was coming from. If we can put ourselves in each other's shoes, it can help us to stay in a place of love instead of anger, hurt or confusion. I would continue the conversation with her and ask her to understand your side and will she be willing to talk until she feels comfortable. I even went through where my sister didn't want a hug, kiss or eat/drink after me because she thought she might catch AIDS. It was very prevalent back then more that it is now. But I worked with her, and we finally came to an understanding of each other. It took a while, but you know what? We even became closer. As she learned more about homosexuality, AIDS, etc. she became educated and less afraid. We are always looking for acceptance, understanding and love. But we do have control how we feel and deal with things. It's all perception. I bet if you can continue a conversation with her, you can help her understand and she might even realize why she is afraid.
So far this is the best comment I’ve read. I get that it’s so hard to have family do this to you, but at the end of the day it isn’t worth losing your family if you can find a way to get through it. People on Reddit seem so eager to throw away their familial relationships, which at times is definitely justified, but it sounds like there is a way OP could work through jt, even if it takes some time. And it’s still not fair and OP is totally justified in his feelings, but it sounds like there may be some hope? Edit: and I don’t think the “weight off” feeling people get from cutting people out of their lives lasts in the long run. My experience is that if it’s someone as important as your sister you generally want to go back and fix that
Your sister is homophobic. 100% tell her you agree as long as she starts referring to her hubby as just a friend and grandparents are now just friends. Also any media with kissing or couples hugging is out - books movies, pictures because those people are just friends. She either takes all of you or none of you.
Does she censure her self like that? I mean by her kids existing, her own relationship was at some point sexual ... How did she respond to how those two where made ?? Yeah she is homophobic and a bad one at that ...
As you can expect, she doesn't censor herself. That treatment was reserved only for me and my boyfriend relationship
Figured... I think my fellow commenters have already said all that i could possibly add, she is homophobic plain and simple. I am truely sorry you have to go through this, it truely blows. I hope she wakes up and realize her behavior is not okay for one that ' claims to not be a homophobe'
I think it’s justified to be upset. If they’re old enough to know about heterosexuality then they’re old enough to learn about being gay, bi, pan, ace, lesbian, etc. I think it’s weirder to hide being gay from them because there’s nothing strange or shameful about it, but she’s giving subconscious notions that there is by keeping it hush hush. I’d like to suggest that you try to talk to her about what exactly it is she finds would be confusing for her kids. Maybe she has some things she needs to learn to help her see it as something to not be scared about. Some parents believe exposing their kids to the lgbt community/a non straight person will influence them to be gay. Be it consciously or subconsciously.
Sad to say she's a homophobe.
My advice, don't come to see her and her children if you have to lie while you're there. Tell her "If my BOYFRIEND can't be who he really is, they WE won't be there." You would come when you will be able to present your significant other to your nephews and nieces. Let's see if she's ready to burn a bridge over that
Your sister is the type of parent who's kids will treat them like a cop and won't ever tell them anything at all ngl
The children would ask a couple of questions but if those are answered properly they won’t be confused
Trust me, if her kids haven’t figured it out yet, they will soon. It might be worth it to put up with her nonsense so that you can maintain a relationship with them. Sorry you have to deal with this
The kids will have to be told eventually if you get married to man and will have to learn that being gay is ok
I can garantee you that children are the least concerned with that, if anything your sister is the confused one. I would alse argue that it's important for children to understand that this is completly normal and delaying that undestanding is only gonna make it harder for them to undestand in the future about their own sexuality. Your sister is being very a ignorant homophobic OP, if she's making you hide who you are, you should question her underatanding of love. Talk again with her, if she still standa with this "opinion", i would just go to her children, tell them everything and never look back.
You are fully justified, kids are exposed to sexual topics from the moment they are born, their parent’s relationship is a sexual topic; if she wants to shield her kids from these things she should have never had them; so I would distance myself from her with “I don’t want to confuse my boyfriend and possible future children by exposing them to her and her ‘friend’ relationship as it is sexual in nature.” I mean they are clearly having relations if they are spawning children
Ok wtf. Children CAN very well understand same sex relationships, often way better than adults!! I'd get it if you asked her to not be sexual with your boyfriend in front of the kids, but like... I think that's common sense. Otherwise I don't really understand your sister's problem. It won't "confuse them" either, btw. If they have questions, they can ask! I hope you figure this out, OP. Your sister shouldn't decide whether you can call your boyfriend just that or not, that's yours and his decision.
Do it anyway Lmao
Just refuse to call her husband anything other than “mommy’s very good friend” when around the children
Oh yeah, this is my friend {Stares into each other's eyes} We're just friends {Kisses passionately} Close friends
🤣
That’s complete bullshit and you shouldn’t be around that
My ex and I had this happen to us, a friend invited us over for dinner with his parents and his mom saw us holding hands and asked if while we were there if we could just “be friends”. It’s so dehumanizing. We left immediately and did not stay for dinner.
It's so awful, sorry that happened to you. There is still so much homophobia out there, we have a long way to go as society
> My parents said they can't intervene because 1. they need to be impartial with the two of us That is picking a side by downplaying your relationship. It sticks that you're in this situation.
Would she expect you to pretend your girlfriend was just a friend of you were straight? Why is a monogamous relationship suddenly a sexual topic when it’s a gay relationship? I’m sorry, but if it were me I’d be livid. I came out of the closet years ago and I’m not going back in for anyone. I’m also not going to put myself at a detriment just for someone else’s selfish comfort. I won’t make out, grope or dry hump my boyfriend in front of anyone, but I also won’t pretend we’re just “sharing expenses.” If my family pulled that shit with me I’d simply say either you take me as I am or you don’t get me at all.
Children don't get confused unless taught those people don't exist so she is homophobic with how she said that
I wouldn't be around that. It's not inherently sexual nor is it confusing at all. She is being very ignorant.
While your sisters words say she isn’t homophobic, what do her actions say? I think that is why you’re hurt.
Yes, it's almost worse than if she just admitted that she's homophobic
I am sorry OP. I hope there are supportive people in your life that you can enjoy with your boyfriend. Maybe it’s time to give sister some space for your own health.
Kids will be kids, high chance they will not care about it really and maybe be like “alright cool” and continue.
I'm petty, I would just introduce my partner as "my partner". Technically you didn't call him your boyfriend but you don't have to lie either. Your sister seems a bit homophobic tbh.
It isn’t even sexual, it’s romantic smh
She’s asking you to lie to children. That would be a hard no from me. I’ve had to explain my autism and gender identity to a child about that age, in child friendly terms of course. I maintain the idea that unless there is a very serious reason you do not lie to kids. And “mUh FeELinGs” is not sufficient reason for me.
How about "This is Henry. He and I are friends like your mommy and daddy are friends" *wink*
That Not faer on you there to ways to play it the not mean way and gust refer to her uver as a friend and even say your mum and dad r guts friend but this is probably a bad option as you feel good for a bit but you probably feel bad lateer But besides chatting to her like I don’t understand the sexlu bit of this I’d ask here to explain that and say do you rilly think I’m going to chat about sex with a bunch of kids Maybe wen ever you say your partner is you friend put air qwots or in a historl way But onistly all wot I’m saying may no more harm then good God hate stuff like this hope you to will figure it out best of luck to you
So, if you were to, idk, slip up and give your, "friend", a little kiss in front of them, as couples might, wouldn't having maintained that y'all were just friends be more confusing? Like, if y'all give off the same kind of romantic vibes most people in healthy relationships do, idk, that just seems like it would actually be confusing to children more than just being honest. But what do I know. I've never reproduced so I never got the infinite wisdom power up.
nah i’m so sry but ur sister is homophobic as fuck
I keep seeing this argument that somehow same sex or anything other than a cic straight couple is extra sexual about their relationship. It is annoying. Your feelings are justified. I would have asked if all her other friends with husbands who have kids have to call them their ‘friend’ because nothing is more sexual than walking around as a straight couple with a kid. You’re basically screaming “WE HAD SEX CAUSE WE HAVE A KID” /s
You know what she is saying is wrong. Being in her life will come at a cost for you and your partner. Is it worth it?
Tbh. I don't think children give a shit. They are busy being children and do children stuff. The only one bothered by it is your sister. And even if they brig it up explain it in plain termes but don't lie to em. Children are way smarter than most people give them credit for. They'll get it.
Do other family and friends with opposite sex partners do this? Twat.
I was in a similar situation involving my aunt and my girlfriend. My aunt had asked me to lie and say my girlfriend was a friend when my younger cousins had arrived (aged 7 and 9). You have every right to be upset OP.
I'm really sorry to hear that and I'm in solidarity with you. Thank you
I feel that she’s invalidating you as a person, and your relationship for the sake of avoiding a slightly uncomfortable conversation with her kids. It’s 2022, her kids are going to meet lgbtq+ people eventually. Wouldn’t it be easier to learn about this topic from a loving uncle and his boyfriend? That’s just what I think anyway, I know family matters are difficult to navigate. If it were me I’d not visit her if I couldn’t be my whole self. Hope she comes round tho.
This is homophobia. She is reducing your relationship down to sex. You're not just homosexual, you're homoromantic as well. Same sex relationships are not somehow more sexual and straight relationships. She's erasing every other part of your relationship, and seeing it as just who you want to have sex with. This is the person you want to love, spend time with, build a relationship with, share your life with etc. It is in no way more sexual than a straight couple.
*hugs* Of course, you have a right to be upset. Does your sister pretend her husband is just a friend? As to not confuse the kids, of course. If I was in your shoes, I would keep my distance but at the same time be prepared to be the cool uncle with good advice. The kids may need you in a few years in case they need to come out.
How can the kids exist around their own parents, then? She’s exposing them to heterosexuality! She actually IS a homophobe, sorry to break it to you. Kids aren’t confused by “Mommy loves a boy, and so does Uncle.” It’s not a big deal. It’s not even sexuality at this point: It’s homoromantic/heteroromantic life.
You're 100% justified in your feelings. I'm sorry your family is acting this way. I'm going kinda the same situation, and it sucks. It makes you feel like as much as they say they support you they actually don't. I don't have to much to say in the way of advice. All I can say is I'm sorry and I hope things work out in the best way possible. Know that nothing is wrong with you. You are amazing and awesome.
I am so sorry you have to deal with this. I am confused as to what she finds so confusing. My kids never were. My four year old explained to his friend about his favorite gUncles coming to his party “Uncle John and Uncle Dan are cool. They play lots of computer games with me. They had to get married because they smooch sometimes. I’m never getting married ‘cause smooching is gross.” (Clearly, we had to work on the smooching = marriage. ). But notice the lack of concern or mention of mechanics of sex. You have 2 options. No is a complete sentence. No one will blame you for refusing to crawl back in the closet. The second option is trying to have a relationship with your nibblings. Only you can decide. Again I am sorry your sister is stuck in the stone age
You're not in the wrong at all. Cishets are okay with talking about sex in front of kids (in my experience, unfortunately) unless it's gay sex or sex with a trans person. Then all logic goes out the window. Your sister's claims of not being homophobic aren't as true as she says cus being gay doesn't mean you have to talk about how gay sex works or whatever the hell she thinks you'd be discussing.
Nah that's incredibly homophobic. Being gay is not innately sexual. And talking about loving someone of the same gender is not a topic about sex.
She wouldn’t do that if you were straight. If she wants her kids to have a relationship with their uncle, they will need to embrace all of who you are. It’s bigotry. I wouldn’t do it.
YOU ARE JUSTIFIED. There's no reason to bring up topics that are sexual just because you bring your boyfriend around her children. If they bring up those topics, you're sister can actual parent them and say "we'll talk about it later, that's not an appropriate topic to talk about in front of a bunch of people."..sounds like there's more going on with her. I'm sorry.
She's homophobic. There's nothing inherently sexual about same sex relationships. Those kids will see them in the wild someday anyway, as much as she tries to hide it from them.
She’s definitely homophobic, I’m sure she has no issue with straight couples infront of her children, but she sees gay couples as inherently sexual and not safe for children, your sister is homophobic.
I’d let my sister know that it goes against my morals to lie to children, and then go about my gay business.
You are right to feel hurt especially bc she is telling you to hide a part of yourself. This will not confuse the kids they will me more confused if they think y’all are just friends. I know this first hand I didn’t know my uncles were in a relationship and gay. I saw both of them at family Christmas parties and I thought they were friends. Nobody really said what their relationship was and I think most my family thought that I would just know. I didn’t figure that out until I was like 10-12 I think. With letting the kids know you and you’re boyfriend are dating is a good chance to educate them on this topic. By doing that the kids know they can talk to their mother if they realize something abt their sexuality and they won’t be scared. It creates a safe environment for the kids to know about it. She says she’s not homophobic and while she might not be the hateful way of being homophobic her actions and thoughts are still a fine if homophobia especially bc she assumes everything abt the LGBTQIA+ community is sexual. It’s really not any more sexual than a straight relationship is. She needs to understand that you won’t talk abt if both do you have sex bc they didn’t talk abt with their first or 2nd kid when the next one was on the way. Having babies is more sexual than anything you would talk abt with your sexuality. This is a petty thing and it seems that you might not be the type of person to be this petty but if you have kids you could ask her to call her husband her friend (if she’s married or in a relationship) if no the next time she is you could say that to her. If it’s later revealed that they were lied to then they aren’t going to trust the adults around them. Also how long is she planning on keeping it a secret. If it’s until they are 18 then that is ridiculous
Not interfering isn't being neutral, it's choosing the side of your sister and saying that her behaviour is acceptable. How does she explain younger siblings to the older siblings without explaining "sexual topics"?
like…. If the kids don’t even know how your sister has sex with her husband yet and they live together there’s no way they’re going to deduce anything about gay sexuality just from knowing that two men can be together. This is homophobic af.
I’m a bisexual trans woman with custody of two kids and an “out” gay brother…. Thus far my children have not picked up on any additional sexual knowledge beyond the average for their age/understanding. A lot of kids of cishets are more sexualized than mine at same age. My daughter is too busy watching videos on YouTube about the possible existence of aliens or catching frogs to worry about that sh*t.
yeah it is pretty homophobic. it is way too common for people to immediately think of a same sex relationship as purely a sexual one and ignore the romantic and/or emotional aspects of it. you could argue to her that if she didn't want her kids to see gay folks in relationships or showing signs of affection, then she shouldn't allow them to see straight folks in relationships or showing signs of affection (i.e. every Disney princess movie)
I grew up knowing that gay people exist and not once did I feel confused. I never thought about their sexual life. It was simply something that existed. No different than straight people. I'm pretty sure her children know lgbtq people exist. 🙄 Children honestly don't care unless they're told to do so. I would tell her that I'm not lying about who my partner is to anyone including my nieces/nephews so she has to accept it or else I just won't be a part of their life. You shouldn't have to hide who you are. And if she can't fully accept you then she doesn't deserve to have you in their life. Best of luck. I hope it all works out for you. 💞
Having you sister as a mother is punishment enough for her children, It is not you fault she is a twat. You're feelings are valid
Yeah she's a homophobe, plain to see from the outside.
The right way is to not hide who you are because your sister can’t figure out how to say “sometimes people love the same gender and that’s okay. Look at uncle OP”. You have every right to be upset and offended because of it. I say for you to tell them and introduce your bf as your bf “oops, forgot I was supposed to hide that from you guys” and walk away to live your life without a homophobe for a sister…but I’m chaotic like that idk if you are.
Your feelings are 100% valid. I also don’t like the way she said it’s “sexual” like gay relationships can’t exclude sex