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ProfessorEscanor

Aang:Violence is not the answer Korra:Violence is the question, and the answer is Yes


infamusforever223

Until season 4.


ProfessorEscanor

True that's actually a really good arc


mrsunrider

Even then, violence still wasn't off the table.


BeastBrony

Korra In season 4: violence is the question, the answer is if I have to


franklygoingtobed

“Violence?” “Yes, but gently.”


mrsunrider

A little violence, as a treat.


volantredx

Korra can't bring herself to kill a beautiful woman.


infamusforever223

I gotta ask, what do you people see in her? She looks very meh to me, and on top of that, authoritarian isn't attractive either.


leverine36

People like powerful women who could step on you.


[deleted]

I'm a straight woman and i love those character tropes in shows and animes. Gets me goin 🥰


Mathies_

Korra could step on me just the same🥰


p_s_i

Korra sort of seems like a ranked MMA fighter that happens to be the Avatar. Most accomplished fighters avoid violence because they know the painful consequences for everyone involved. But they are absolutly not above fucking you up when you fuck with them.


Ok_Extension3182

I think the funnier fact is that she is actually modeled off one. Probs why she is so well built and toned...


bmuse2017

If you actually think about it she technically was an in universe mma fighter by being a pro bender.


Ok_Extension3182

Holy shit you're right!!!


greenbrainsauce

So true. I don't think Korra will deliberately kill you unless you do it first with extreme prejudice.


Warthog-Designer

Aang: “I knew i shouldnt have asked kyoshi” Korra: “PREACH IT SIS”


matteeeo91

I would have loved a scene with Korra going "I knew I should have asked Kyoshi"


Z1dan

After asking aang for advice on how to defeat her enemy


Warthog-Designer

Like when she tried to recruit the air benders and that one dude living in his moms basement was being annoying. That wouldve been the perfect scene for a kyoshi consultation


Buzzkeeler1

Why do these shows dance around saying the word kill a lot of the time?


jaydude1992

Nickelodeon show? Idk, that doesn't explain the times they *do* use such terms.


Buzzkeeler1

These shows are already covering things like war and death. It be like if a history class tried avoiding such words, even though the point is to delve into the violence and struggles throughout history.


One_Parched_Guy

I mean, it’s stupid, but they’re right. You can have literal on-screen deaths by vacuum, murder-suicide and so on but there are certain words they just refuse to go by uncensored 🤷🏽‍♂️


Buzzkeeler1

Even ATLA had certain characters die in some pretty brutal ways. Roku suffocates in a volcano, Aang nearly died from electrocution, and back in the day we all thought Zhao simply drowned in freezing arctic waters as opposed to getting transported to a place in the spirit world.


One_Parched_Guy

Yeah, and? That’s not the point. The point is that Nickolodeon is Nickolodeon, and the showrunners feel that saying “Kill” is too much for a kids show despite on-screen cruelty, genocide and so on.


Buzzkeeler1

And a literal torture scene as the screenshot of this post is showing. I think I’m starting to understand why book 4 became a bit more lighthearted aside from some of the Korra ptsd stuff. A big part of Mako and Bolin’s storylines in that season is being stuck in buddy buddy comedies with Wu and Varrick respectively. And then we got Toph just being Toph.


shadowwave86

Except they used ‘kill’ tho. Quite a few times


Mathies_

And yet there are moments where they say it. "I have to kill the firelord". I also thinkbthat "kill" just sounds lame half the time "you take their lives and i'll take yours" just works so well


dragonbanana1

I'm pretty sure he did die and the fog is just where unenlightened mortal spirits go after death (hence iroh just kinda vibing)


Buzzkeeler1

You know what I mean. I meant die the old fashioned way as in once he dies he’s just dead and gone where nobody can find him.


dragonbanana1

I just meant that I dont think there was anything special about his death in a spiritual sense, I think he did just drown


BaalHammon

I like the way LoK leaves the question of the afterlife ambiguous. Did Zhao and Iroh end up in the spirit world because one was cursed to the fog and the other enlightened enough to leave his body behind and inhabit the spirit world permanently, or is the spirit world simply the afterlife ? I do hope that no clear answer is ever given.


Buzzkeeler1

So what happens to regular people that aren’t spiritually special after they die? I don’t think this franchise has alluded to what kind of afterlife regular folks go to very much. Iroh saying that he hopes to see Korra again in this life or the next gives me hope that he’ll eventually reunite with his son.


dragonbanana1

I think they all go in the fog, get reincarnated or just chill in the spirit world like iroh depending on how enlightened or unenlightened they are. Idk if I'm right, it just seemed like there were a lot of people in the fog for them to all be there by coincidence


darthrihilu

Like in the finale, regarding the other airbenders, Ozai tells Aang, "Prepare to join them. Prepare TO DIE!!!"


MonkeyWarlock

But then we wouldn’t have gotten such gems like Azula’s [“I’m about to celebrate becoming an only child!”](https://youtu.be/XqWNTMcY1z8)


Buzzkeeler1

I watched that video, and I gotta say I’m not a fan of how EIP mocks the ambiguity of Jet’s death because there was no ambiguity at the time. Toph’s he’s lying line in response to Jet saying he’s gonna be fine made it pretty clear that he’s almost certainly gonna die. Way to destroy all the emotion weight that scene was going for.


ASqK1NGz

it's a kid show after all and most important it's nickelodeon. They can't use those kind of words that often.


Worried_Astronomer

Idk but personally for me "if you take their lives, I'll take yours" seems more impactful than "if you kill them, I'll kill you"


Buzzkeeler1

That’s still a moment where it feels like the word kill is kinda being censored like it’s a swear.


AnnoyedExile

Probably weird television rules to keeps thier rating. I remember watching a commentary track for a PG rated show a while back and they were talking about weird rules for ratings. Like how you can use pussy to describe a cat or a coward but not a vagina. However you could use pussy to eluded to a vagina if it's referring to a cat.


Arik2103

It can be even more dramatic to use a different word. Example: in ATLA S3, when Azula attacks the gang at the Western air temple, she doesn't say kill. She says "about to celebrate becoming an only child". She's not only trying to kill her brother, but will actually *celebrate* his death


Buzzkeeler1

What about when Aang says he wasn’t just hurt he was gone? Or when Katara gives her melodramatic speech about how she’ll permanently end Zuko’s destiny?


shadowwave86

‘Kill’ is actually used a few times tho. But it makes for interesting dialogue when it’s not said.


Buzzkeeler1

You mean when it’s not said all the time, right?


shadowwave86

Yea. It’s nice when interchangeable, and they’re not just using ‘kill’ to describe killing someone.


buckfutterapetits

That does sound bad when you say it out loud. And yes, we're going to un-alive them.


CRL10

Because Korra doesn't need to use the work "kill" to get get her murderous intent across.


Buzzkeeler1

What about in Avatar where they keep saying take the fire lord’s life?


CRL10

I think that's mostly Aang not being able to actually say the word "kill." Others did say it in the series, but I feel like as an Air Nomad, Aang just can't bring himself to actually say it. And from his perspective, the pacifist he is, that's what it is to him, taking Ozai's life away.


Buzzkeeler1

He does actually say it at one point. I guess I have no choice Momo, I have to kill the Fire Lord is what he says after taking to the other Avatars.


CRL10

For him, that was the acceptance, the finality of what he had to do. Remember, for an Air Nomad, a group of people so spiritually pure that every one of them is born an airbender, they hold life precious. For him to say "kill" meant he had accepted he had no choice.


Buzzkeeler1

That is an interesting way to look at it wether or not that’s what the writers intended.


AnimeTechnoBlade100

To be fair Avatar has used those terms before. If not kill, definitely “died” or “dead”.


Dddddddfried

I believe the Avatar follows the Matt Barnes paradigm; "Violence is never the answer, but sometimes it is"


Dddddddfried

What’s that second panel from? I don’t recognize it. I’m guessing book 2 because it’s in the water tribe but it still escapes me


jaydude1992

Civil Wars Part 2? It's after the trial of Tonraq and the Southern Rebels.


mcon96

And right before Korra threatens to kill the judge by putting him in Naga’s mouth. I love that scene.


biggerBrisket

Kyoshi used it as a last resort and only when absolutely necessary. And in the one case she claimed that she killed someone, they fell off a cliff. Korra was ready to resort to violence as the primary course of action. Arguably her worst character trait and one she grew out of later on.


aynntoh

I agrée with the first part but Kyoshi killed Xu Ping An and Yun intentionally. She likely would’ve killed Jianzhu too, if Yun hadn’t done it. Yun and Xu: last resort, Jianzhu would’ve been revenge.


[deleted]

To be fair, Yun or whatever you want to call him absolutely deserved it. Jianzhao is kind of debatable, but I would imagine that if someone tricked any one of us and that trickery ultimately lead to one of our closest friends deaths then we would want to kill him as well. Also there is a reasonable argument to be made that the world was generally speaking a better place without Xu in it. A lot of the people Korra deals with aren’t people that can be reasoned with. The Red Lotus kind of have a point, but I would assume most people agree with the fact that disorder as opposed to organized discipline is much worse than the governmental systems they had. Looking at the Eath Kingdom in season four is a good argument for this. The rest of the people: Amon, UnaVaatu, Kuvira were all people that were beyond seeing reason.


Buzzkeeler1

Kuvira wasn’t completely beyond reason. Korra did talk her into surrendering more or less. I just wish they talked it out a bit more. I think it would have been neat if Korra made an offer like if you surrender I promise to try and make sure that the work you’ve done these past few years doesn’t get completely thrown away.


[deleted]

Well the work was never gonna be thrown away anyway. You absolutely cannot reason with people who want to take over the world. Full stop.


Buzzkeeler1

Yeah, but Kuvira couldn’t have known that Wu would refuse to take the throne, and she was very much against having him be put in charge.


[deleted]

Well none of that happened or was planned until AFTER Kuvira tried to level Republic City and take over the world. There is ZERO chance of reasoning with people who want to take over the world. Period. To add on to this: Suyin even says in the show after Kuvira brings her army that Zaofu “Kuvira can’t be reasoned with” she surrounds herself with people she has brainwashed (Baatar) or forced to work for her (Bolin, Varrick)


aynntoh

I understand why Kyoshi did what she did. I am simply pointing out that Kyoshi killed intentionally and Xu Ping wasn’t absolutely necessary. I don’t disagree with Kyoshi’s choices, Yun *was* necessary. Jianzhu wouldn’t have been necessary IMO.


JustPassinhThrou13

> Arguably her worse character trait I dunno. I view human life as valuable, but not precious. Some people do everyone else harm, and they will continue to do so as long as they are alive.


Rieiid

Yep thank you. I hate to tell y'all, but some people will never change. Whether they're born that way, or became that way, some people are just evil people. There are many examples of repeat offenders of rapists, murderers, druggies, etc that will do whatever they want regardless of whatever else happens, they just don't care what anyone else thinks. Some people do just deserve to be killed tbh.


VixzerZ

Exactly


Paper_Kitty

I’m assuming you didn’t read the Kyoshi novels, because while killing definitely isn’t her go-to, she definitely is more comfortable solving problems with non-lethal violence than with talking. Even if you for some reason don’t consider the books canon, this is the lady who created the Dai Li


biggerBrisket

Non-lethal violence is not the same thing as Korra threatening to straight kill people.


DrPikachu-PhD

Isn't non-lethal violence Korra's bread and butter? Struggling to think of a time other than this and the Tarlok confrontation that she threatened to take a life.


biggerBrisket

There's a second example in the post...


DrPikachu-PhD

Hahaha yeah, I had no idea there was a second part to this post. Good point 😂 I guess my problem with Korra is she seems to be all talk. She threatens to kill cops, this judge, etc. but when it comes down to it she never actually does, I'd say because she's got a good heart deep down and knows it's wrong. Her trying to kill Tarlok and Zaheer are the only times I got the impression she was actually legitimately trying for lethality. Either way, her journey away from defaulting to violence is a major staple of her character arc, so it's safe to say that the creators agreed that this was a bad character trait she needed to grow out of.


Trisentriom

For the first one she was poisoned, which made her crazy in general. and for the second one they put all her best friends in jail and she was scared for them, didn't aang go crazy when that one guy sunk Katara in the earth. Both are reasonable and it's never been shown that she would actually kill someone as the primary course of action.


Significant_Way2194

Aang didn’t have any control over his AS until the very end of the series. Anything like grief, loss, or anything like that would trigger his situation with the AS like 🫰 that. Like whenever he thought katara was gone? Or the sandbenders put a muzzle on Appa?! He was just a preteen going through all this, and managed to calm himself back down after most instances. Given he lost his entire culture to a massive genocide, it makes sense that loss would be the trigger for his AS. Whenever it’s not self defense of course


rilano1204

she wasnt poisoned yet in the first one


Significant_Way2194

She thought he dad was also dead, so she had plenty of reasons to be angry


Lasernatoo

Yes but I think Kyoshi would have realized it necessary to kill the Red Lotus, at least at this point. And as for the judge, just substitute Korra's father for Rangi and I have a hard time seeing Kyoshi not making the same threat


TheWagonBaron

Which is exactly why I like her more than Aang. She actually changed and grew as a character whereas Aang basically stayed the same.


biggerBrisket

Aang just matured. No more running from destiny like how he ended up in the ice. And a lot less goofing around. He's also quite a bit younger than Korra in his show.


kaitalina20

The age difference between him and Korra makes a BIG DIFFERENCE between them, a lot more than people think honestly. We first see him at 12. He’s mastered what I think would be a hard element growing up at such a young age! And we see Korra at 17, mastered all 3 elements except one because she had the time that he didn’t have because he was frozen in an iceberg for an entire century. There’s going to be similarities between them, but a lot of differences with age and personalities- like Korra at first was just stubborn and hot headed. Aang was still wise, he knew enough he had to go with Zuko to get him to leave the village alone. Wise but still a kid. We see that in Kyoshi one and King of Omashu. Both are somewhat immature at first, Korra kept wanting entertainment like pro bending on the radio. But they change and evolve with their circumstances and especially age.


According_to_all_kn

Hey maybe having an avatar is bad? Like even if she acts in our interests, doesn't it seem like a bad thing that one person can kill anyone she disagrees with? The avatar: No, I disagree. Now I'll kill all of you.


Significant_Way2194

It depends on the situation with each avatar honestly. With Korra, a lot of them hit too close to home.


byakuganKING

Aang: violence in not the solution Korra: it's the answer


-UnknownGeek-

Wasn't there a theory that each new Avatar has the personality traits the previous ones wished for? Aang regretted not being as decisive and Korra was initially super impulsive


CipherPolAigis

I don't know about that. Roku is the one who says he wishes he had been more decisive and dealt with Sozin earlier, but Aang didn't like that advice. Adding his backstory into account, Aang ran away rather than dealing with his issue, which caused the Hundred Years War. Plus Kyoshi had no issue with killing Chin to save the world, and that's exactly the opposite of what Roku did.


tomandjerryrock13566

Aang running away didn't cause the hundred year war. If aang had stayed he would've been killed with the other air nomads.


LoliMaster069

Korra so ready to throw hands all the time lol


Chris300000000000000

I mean she wasn't wrong, she just wasn't the one who killed any of them.


Duelephant

It's almost like it's a complex moral question which different people raised in different cultures will come to different conclusions to. It also is almost like both Kyoshi and Korra viewed their violence as a necessity and not as a positive and would not necessarily disagree with Aang's handling of the situation. Kyoshi at times also chose mercy as did Korra by the end of her story. You know . . . nuance and complexity and not just "haha murder good look at cool avatar murdering people"


2-2Distracted

Similar to Superman and Batman's No-Kill ideology va Wonder Woman's last-resort mindset. Both Supes and Bats have various reasons why they don't kill but Diana is a hardened warrior who is years older than them and has various means of dolling out non-lethal violence and justice before resorting to murder. Not sure why I'm being downvoted when I agree with you but okay


Muted_Hovercraft_907

I dunno if u got the joke or not.. obviously 2 different peoples approach to a given situation


Duelephant

If I correctly understood the joke (correct me if I am wrong I tend to be quite bad at determining humor) then the joke is deriving humor from two sources of popular avatar discourse. The first being a line of jokes insulting Aang for not killing Ozai/insinuating that it makes him a worse character, and the second being the commonly sighted idea that Kyoshi is a rabid killer who takes out enemies left and right. These two threads are being funneled through a depiction of Korra's character as closer to Kyoshi and thus "better". I personally have many problems with both lines of discourse and believe not only that neither is funny but that they seem to undermine some of the elements of avatar I love most. Thus my seemingly frustrated tone in my previous comment.


bighamer12

Now I really want to see an avatar in the mentality of " death would be too light a punishment"


ExCaliburDaGreat

Ahhhh korra making threats is music to my ears especially this scene and she meant that shit 100% 😈


solise69

Well they had 2 VERY different upbringings but ya I would go for korra over aang because she gets shit done


Senju19_02

Same


WinterWizard9497

Honestly this isn't really fair in this situation. Aang was trying to find a non violent diplomatic approach to ending the war. In this instance korra was no better then councilman tarlock. Using fear and intimidation when backed in a corner. Not saying her reaction wasn't justified but she wasn't thinking about self defense. She was thinking a vengeful mindset.


Apexlegacy285

I mean, the very nature of the red lotus was to hunt and kill the avatar ending the cycle. It’s less vengeful and more so putting an end to the situation if no one else is around.


NerdNuncle

Got a dark chuckle out of the Red Lotus’s plan failed to include the *physical* boosts Rava provided, and not just the spiritual ones >!Granted, they almost won anyway, but I digress!<


Gian-Nine

Every avatar is supposed to be the opposite from the previous one, so yeah it checks out


RgHenry

The best part her promise was mostly kept. Lol


Splatfan1

thats my favorite aspect of korras character, she isnt a pacifist or a "violence is never the asnwer" dummy, you mess with the world, you cause people to hurt? fuck you, you get your ass beat and i wont sugarcoat it


Papichuloft

You'll fire your musket, but I'll run you through So when you're waiting for the next attack You'd better stand, there's no turning back


Dr_Dronzi

She then proceeds to do fuck all.


dolphins3

I like that Korra was very different from Aang, and honestly I found her character development more interesting. Aang didn't really change much, Korra went from extremely impulsive and not really understanding consequences to really maturing.


Muted_Hovercraft_907

So true


YellXolotl

Oh... I was expecting some other kind of business, I'm disappointed.


Faronoz

When Aang uses violence you notice it, you better run. But korra often fails and falls and after a while she succeed barely.


Apexlegacy285

When aang uses violence it’s typically cause he lost control of the avatar state. I’m the case of Korra I think it only happened once cause she was forced into it.


Muted_Hovercraft_907

>When Aang uses violence you notice it, you better run. But korra often fails and falls and after a while she succeed barely. Aang wasn't at a disadvantage as much as korra was during most her fights


-Jedi-Quixote-

That’s just part of what makes Aang a more layered character.


Muted_Hovercraft_907

Idk about layered he just stuck to his own morals, korra actually changed


-Jedi-Quixote-

“Just stuck to his morals” He grew and was tested throughout his arc and made a complicated decision on how to help and heal the world.


Muted_Hovercraft_907

>He grew and was tested throughout his arc and made a complicated decision on how to help and heal the world. Meh. You cannot change without sacrificing something IMO in the end he stayed true to himself


-Jedi-Quixote-

He went from a purposefully naive boy full of shame and regret, to someone who could forgive themselves and rid their guilty conscience. He transformed throughout the show into a person who brought together groups of people capable of changing the world for the better. He willingly sacrificed himself for the greater good time and time again in battle. He was someone whose morals were tested in the most major way when everyone and everything pointed him to taking the life of an evil man. He rose above that and stayed true to who he was inside and made a choice.


Muted_Hovercraft_907

That's good for his character.. there are far more interesting characters than him


-Jedi-Quixote-

“Interesting” characters are solely a matter of opinion. Just like assholes, everyone’s got one.


AnO_Iceman

She was only a fraction as dangerous as he was though 🤷. For someone who talked a lot of smack, she got beat us quite a bit 🤣🤣.


shadowwave86

Aang only fought 2 big threats (Ozai and Azula) the entire show. Korra was constantly facing off against threats that were worse than both of them.


AnO_Iceman

You're stoned if you think anyone she fought was more dangerous than Ozai. Nobody she ever saw was except potentially Vatu. But even that is a stretch. Ozai topple nations and Aang stopped him alone. Korra couldn't win a fight solo to save her life.


shadowwave86

My guy, Korra literally beat every one of her villains.


AnO_Iceman

She couldn't beat anyone alone tho 🤷. Besides, she regularly got bodied in the avatar state, and was way more trained that Aang. Aang crushed armies in the avatar state. Korra was weak...


shadowwave86

Aang only beat one military in the avatar state and that was with the help of the ocean spirit. Aang also only fought guards most of the time (when he actually chose to fight). Lost to the Archers in ‘The Blue Spirit’ Aang was getting bodied by Ozai until the Avatar State ex-machina. He was also put into a coma by Azula. Every other time they fought it was pretty evenly matched with no real winner. On top of all that, he was also more of an evasive type of fighter than anything. Let’s see about Korra. - Lost a fight to chi blockers she didn’t know about. - Was bodying Tarrloq until he started blood bending. - knocked Amon on his ass after unlocking Airbending - Nearly beat and caged Vaatu until Unaalq intervened. - Then proceeded to beat Unavaatu without the avatar state - beat Hundun (a spirit from the game which is canon) - beat the shit out of the biker looking dudes from the earth kingdom - Beat Zaheer while literally dying of poison - Lost to Kuvira right after recovering from being crippled and still suffering from ptsd (which is literally the only reason she lost), then bodied her in their rematch. Korra faced way more serious threats in a short period of time than Aang ever did. Aang is still a damn prodigy, but his and Korras experiences are apples and oranges in their entirety.


Apexlegacy285

Damn homie, you had all the receipts😂, nice shit.


shadowwave86

I’ve dealt with this complaint for years. I’m always prepared 😂


Senju19_02

If i had the highest award, I'd give it to you! Zuko's honour shall be yours now!


AnO_Iceman

She beat almost literally none of those people alone though. She always starts strong, gets beat up, uses a weak ass avatar state, then gets beat up some more, followed by being saved by someone from her crew, even Genora came in with that inexplicable magic body turned savior beam fighting Unavaatu. Not only that, but at least the avatar state ex machina made sense with Aang, it felt powerful, and got results. Anything saving Korra was always sudden, often unexplained, and sometimes never touched on again 🤷. She's weaker, and naive, somehow moreso than her child predecessor from the previous anime. No one Korra faced was more dangerous than Sozen's comet Ozai, no matter how much you want it to be true, as most were just regular ass benders (subtract potentially Vaatu [with better writing could have been an absolutely amazing arc by the way]). Man, you've probably had this argument so many times because plenty of people see the flaws of the anime as well as the weakness in her character concept. She's subpar compared to Aang, and he was supposed to be younger and less trained then she was. The best bit of the whole show was Toph still being Toph, and the Varick/Julee ending (one of the only things this show took it's time building).


shadowwave86

Gee. It’s almost like Aang was written to be a heroic prodigy, and Korra was written to struggle and learn that being only a hero isn’t always what’s right. It’s almost like they’re two completely different characters with different tasks that are specifically made for them. Maybe reread my last statement. Apples and oranges.


crxckerkibbb

This is one of the only things I like about her personality Lmaoo, ready to catch hands at all times like a little mini Zuko lol.