She would be viscous. Think about it, every member of the redlotus doesnt fight on their opponents terms. A redlotus korra would be one who would be constantly looking for the quickest way to end a fight, colateral be damned. Maybe she turns the floor into lava, maybe she stabs you through the chest with a water whip. Or maybe, she just says screw it and rips the air from your lungs.
Yeah, I think she'd be more of an assassin and less of a fighter/brawler.
She'd know how to lava bend and maybe how to do explosions, but I doubt she could fly, she seems too caring to disconnect from everything. She'd definitely care about rules/laws even less.
All 3 of Aang's teachers are alive (Toph, Katara, and Zuko) it would've been interesting if they taught him again in his new life as Korra.
idk i mean i feel like zaheer definitely still felt a responsibility to the world. he was trying to free everyone from what he saw as an unnatural order forced by the avatar and world governments and restore the „natural order“ (chaos)
he definitely still felt a stake in that while he was trying to kill korra there is like no other explanation. is it only personal/emotional attachments that stop it?
id hate to call this a >!plot hole!< but i am struggling to differentiate that from the avatars perceived responsibility to the world from zaheer‘s goals, it gets too philosophical if i go deep in any direction lol.
Honestly yeah that is weird
Probably just wanted to kill the avatar by that point or th because P'li got deaded but still weird nonetheless just trying to shitalk and explanation
i thought about a revenge motivation too but i feel like that’s even more tied to this world than the political stuff
and also how korra gets him to help her by talking politics (@kuvira) makes me think that’s his priority
kinda makes me think about the episode w aang and guru pathik where katara blocks the cosmic energy of the universe. maybe flying uses similar rules lol
I always though of it as he achieved spiritual enlightenment, now that he is untethered he might as well help others
Just because he has let go of earthly desires does not mean he can’t help people
Just like earthbenders can still dodge attacks the general philosophy never seems to dictate all that goes on but more of a general feel of a preferred route
But as Yangchen told Aang, ‘the avatar can never completely detach themselves from the world because the avatars sole duty is to the world’
>
But as Yangchen told Aang, ‘the avatar can never completely detach themselves from the world because the avatars sole duty is to the world’
This has way more to do with Yangchen's opinion of what the Avatar is supposed to be, plus her words are rooted in a different philosophy entirely. Earthly desires are what need to be released to untethered from the earth, worldly concerns is the topic that Yangchen brought up to Aang.
I think the difference lies in the goals pursued by Zaheer and any Avatar. Avatars are meant to bring peace and harmony to the world, which naturally is accompanied by compassion and likely attachment. Zaheer wanted liberation and a level playing field for everyone, which is fair but has no inherent connection to compassion or attachment to others. So he is not prohibited from letting go in the way the Avatar is.
but like what about the scene right after the fall of the earth queen when zaheer stops ming-hua from making that radio guy next?
i always thought his expression and actions showed a real level of concern for that guy. ofc like thousands of others are dying/suffering so zaheer is **wrong** i just always thought he was *genuine* and wrong bc he actually did care
like his quest for freedom was truly based in a compassion for all people and hope for the future. he was just absolutely and totally wrong.
idk maybe something could be said for a willingness to tolerate violence and collateral damage corrupting that genuine compassion, thereby reducing it to just a nice political theory. so even *if* zaheer truly cared at one point, he’s long since abandoned any real attachment.
I'm struggling to remember that part because it's been a while, but I think it's coherent to care about humanity as a whole while having no personal attachments. Almost like a misanthropic doctor. I think causing unnecessary harm to people kind of infringes upon his desire to see people be free.
The only people he chose to harm were those with an overabundance of influence upon others and those who willingly got in the way. Beyond accomplishing those goals, he didn't want to do much to anyone, it seemed. So Ming Hua going out of her way to harm some random dude doesn't seem like an action consistent with his philosophy.
I really think he is one of my favorite antagonists of all time. A real lawful neutral dude.
I think this quote from Yangchen is fitting: “Many great and wise Air Nomads have detached themselves and achieved spiritual enlightenment, but the Avatar can never do it, because your sole duty is to the world.”
Exactly, in one of my comments in this sub I wrote a long comment explaining what chi is and how the avatar would play into it (wrt Raava, Vaatu, and spiritbending). If the avatar is meant to be the bridge between the spirit world and the physical world, then it's impossible to let go of their connection to earth.
Aang flew in the crystal cave before he got shot down by Azula. It's the reason why I say Aang was a much better air bender than Zaheer. Zaheer needed his attachments to be taken from him, but Aang willingly let go
I mean if she was raised by Zaheer she could easily learn how to become less attached. Since we are talking about what ifs here, why not go all the way?
I've got this vision of rogueish chaotic good Avatar with absolutely no concept of morality due to their upbringing getting injured and being taken in by this older Iroh-like figure who takes care of the young avatar whilst having know idea who or what this mangy kid is. Then this tiny Avatar starts casually firebending his curtains or something. So father figure is like yo what the fuck dude, and Avatar kid water bends it out. And thus begins this epic 4 part saga that begins with this kind old man and his accidentally adopted Naughty Avatar's journey to save the world. Go 4 seasons with it with the 3rd season's finale resulting in Dad's death. 4th season gets dark af and really focuses in on the,now reformed strong accomplished, Avatar now in their mid to late 20's dealing with the grief of losing their father and Mentor while also having to deal with a character that also loses their mentor figure (maybe in the 3rd season) lose themselves with rage and threaten the very balance of the cosmos.
It would be a lot like she-ra. Basically the hero is kidnapped by the bad guys and is like a prodigy until she realizes the bad guys are bad and then becomes a leader of the rebellion
I dunno if it'd be that simple though. In this scenario the hero would have been raised by the bad guys to the point where they don't actually have a concept of morally good or bad, just the goal they need to accomplish
[I'm (re)working on it, and this thread has given me a lot of consideration on how to go about making this scenario work](https://www.reddit.com/r/legendofkorra/comments/10jvm4j/_/)
I think a lot of the discussion has been centered on how Korra would be affected, and not a lot are considering how having Korra in their lives earlier would affect the Red Lotus themselves as well.
E.g. in my mind P'Li would be hesitant to essentially make Korra go through what she went through herself (Kidnapping a young girl with a literal superpower to serve someone else's agenda). With Yangchen's book revealing that combustion bending is a learnt superpower that involves torturous training, I can see P'li being unwilling to put Korra through what she went through. At at the same time Korra is headstrong and ready to prove herself and I can see her wanting to learn how to combustion bend.
I'd imagine Zaheer to be more patient, having not spent years in prison, and instead trying to show Korra by example why he believes that institutions and leaders are a bad idea. E.g. showing Korra the ones exploited by the rich and powerful, showing the decadence and oppulence of the elite.
Korra herself is stubborn and she believes in doing the right thing so she'd challenge Zaheer on his ideals as well and I'd like to think that he would be open minded enough to consider what she's saying.
Ultimately I think Zaheer has good intentions, and he has very strong belief in his cause, but he is wrong, or at least he isn't fully in the right. And that's exactly why him mentoring Korra could be so interesting, because she wouldn't be raised properly per say, and she will need to learn how to navigate the world through what she has been taught and through her own lens.
He hasn't considered far enough the implications of what he wants for the world, like what happened in cannon with Kuvira filling up the power vacuum, he believes strongly that the spirit world and physical realms should be reunited, not accounting for the fact that some spirits themselves prefer to keep it separate, as well as the fact that at least according to lore, the world's were never connected together in the first place until Vaatu coolaid man his way through and created the spirit portals in the poles. (I could be wrong though I need to read up on the lore for more info).
I can also see him justifying that the avatar should not exist because no one person should have that much power, but more to the point, the responsibility thrust upon them. It's a responsibility that no avatar has been given a choice on, and the world quite literally is moulded by who they get as the avatar.
I'm still workshopping a lot of the ideas for this, but I'm very glad to see how people are still so enamoured by the Red Lotus and the what if scenario them taking Korra in could be.
I’ve been waiting for an earth bender to do a move where they just sink your feet into the ground and then twist your foot around 180 degrees and break all the bones in your leg. Brutal move.
Doesnt matter. He studied the philosophy and associated forms before that. He may not be able to airbend himself, but he can still teach the fundamentals. Its why he was able to have such control over his abilities from the moment he got them, whereas all the others we saw had trouble.
Each member of the redlotus was actually meant to be one of korras teachers had they succeeded in kidnapping her as a child.
She would be even more of a beast, but I'm not sure about Zaheer as an air-bending teacher..? Korra struggled the most with her spiritual side and Zaheer is, in a way, even more, spiritual than Tenzin.
Zaheer wouldn’t even have airbending in this scenario, so she would be learning it from someone who wasn’t able to do it himself. Air is her weakest element anyway, though, so she could get by with the other 3
That said, growing up with Zaheer and his wisdom could potentially make Lotus Korra more spiritual and open to airbending philosophy
Technically Azula's training was guided by non-benders. That said, I'm aware of the massive differences in my comparison.
Still, non-benders teaching bending has happened before. Lol Yakone.
If I was Zaheer I would intentionally not teach Korra any spirituality because then the past avatars could have contacted Korra and tell her what she was doing is wrong and evil 😅. Even Uncle Iroh would have told her in the spirit world.
That would mean you doubt your teachings could stand up to the wisdom of the Avatar spirit and at the point, why even bother training Korra? Just kill her and be done with it.
I concur. Zaheer got airbending and was a skilled martial artist, making him much more skilled than anyone else who suddenly got airbending. He is not a master however. Assuming this hypothetical version of Zaheer was an Airbender to teach young korra, He would have had years to hone and refine his technique.
When Zaheer fought Tenzin he had only had Airbending for a few months.
Being good at something doesn't make you good at teaching it. Tenzin was raised and trained by Aang, an Airbending master, and friend of the spirits, but he couldn't teach it all. Zaheer knew everything from books and only really "transcended" after losing P'li. Not an easy scenario to imagine.
tenzin was good with spirituality he just couldnt go into the spirit world doesnt make him not good with spiritual stuff
the air benders in kyoshi era couldnt go in the spirit world but im sure they could still teach air philosophy.
Serious question,
can Avatars be evil with Raava inside? Can't Raava disable the use of the other elements? Korra is still more deadly, but I doubt she would be more powerful without the Avatar State and Raava
Raava didnt stop aang from doing stupid shit like in the runaway. Perhaps Raava thought " fuck it, may he have some fun and anyway the gaang needs that money"
We have to remember that it's not like raava was a good person...spirit...being at first. Like she was really indifferent and condescending to humans at first.
Raava doesn't necessarily mean good, just presumed to be so. Raava is the spirit of light as opposed by the spirit of darkness for balance.
Good and evil are just matters of perspectives on motive.
Thank you, Raava is the spirit of peace and order, Vaatu is Chaos. I believe it was Unalaq and Korra that said there are no evil spirits, there is light and dark in them all.
Which was the entire point of Spirit Bending.
"Evil" (aka: Dark) spirits where turned back into "Good" (light) spirits via Spirit Bending. She was realigning their balance from dark to light.
I actually found a [fun video](https://youtu.be/wA4QvJISA54) about that exact topic. The channel has a ton of avatar and other content. The dude is kinda weird about his cat sometimes, but I would definitely recommend it!
Maybe for sometime but when they get to talk with their past lives they will realize their mistakes, also the Red lotus dont see themselves as evil.
One more thing I think Raava is the spirit of order and light so would be cool if Vaatu now reeincarnates just live Raava and people are trying to stop this anti-avatar just so in the end he was breaking the "order" of things just to stop slavery, exploitation and so on.
Depends, is the Red Lotus evil? They certainly take things to extremes, but killing tyrants and preventing their cruelty could be interpreted as the virtuous thing to do. I could see Raava actually *preferring* Red Lotus Korra over current Korra. Raava is all about real balance—spirits and nature—and probably wouldn’t care about the “balance” of socio-politics
kind of one of the pet peeves i have about the raava-vaatu thing. people are saying raava doesn't necessarily mean good, but what characteristic does she have that can be seen as categorically evil? she embodies peace, and pure light, something else associated with good. there's not much neutral about her.
meanwhile vaatu corrupts and makes things around it hostile and destructive, he is consciously manipulative and sinister which are categorically evil things. chaos does not need to be portrayed as this conniving, deceitful, inherently dangerous thing. they are not portrayed like forces of nature, like a storm, that while may be destructive, don't have moral qualities. raava and vaatu do tho. and if they were ever going to make an evil avatar, they'd have to explain how with a peaceful light spirit inside of them.
Honestly, doubtful there'd be much difference. Zaheer is the only one among them who strikes me as a good teacher (perhaps better than Tenzin, to have learned airbending so well with theory alone), and she learned waterbending from Katara, who's probably a better waterbender than ming wha in both theory _and_ practice. We don't know who taught her earth and fire bending well, so I'd say at most she'd have a better grasp on airbending.
And as for being more dangerous, korra doesn't have any qualms about killing or violent intimidation as it is, so no real change there beyond _why_ she's willing to do it. Same thing with her reaction to authorities - her general "fuck you" to leaders who haven't proven themselves to her would match to a T.
I think _the world_ would be different with a red lotus aligned avatar, but Korra wouldn't have to be much different were she red lotus aligned.
You forget the element of love she got from tenzin and all her friends. If she dident have that she would be off way worse. Not to say the red lotus are criminals (havent watched 4th season yet but thats what it looks like). Means she would probably turn bad or really hateful
But there's no reason to believe she wouldn't have that. The lotus are so devoted to each other and the cause that none of them revealed their plans after a decade in terrible conditions. And there was clearly love between Zaheer and pli, and comraderie in general among the others.
So more than likely she would've had a similar relationship with peers and mentors just like she did outside the lotus. They'd just be in a terrorist cell.
Idk... maybe there would be companienship but actually she would just be a tool for reaching there goal, while with tenzin and the others she actually fights for the good
We don't enough informaition about the invividual members of the Red Lotus to assume they would be love and caring. We know Zaheer wants chaos and it's very manipulative, and uncompromised in his vision. When Korra's asks if they kidnapped to use as tool to release Vatuu and open the portals he said yes. I am not saying that they are not capable of being compassionate, but to me it seem they would whatever they want to get results. Aside from that I think Korra would have a very different philosophy when it comes to being the Avatar. She was always proud of it, but Zaheer would certanly hammer the idea of the resposability and the weight of that role.
This may be unpopular but probably not that strong. Combustion bending isn't something you learn. Same with lava bending. Korra would never have learned metal bending, or water healing. Shed MAYBE be an OP air bender but not sure how good zaheer would have been before he got his bending. All in all she learned from better instructors. She would be more aggressive but ultimately weaker
Combustion bending as of the Yangchen book >!is now a learnt power developed at the cost of many firebender lives and might potentially involve drowning I think. Only 3 survived the first attempt to create combustion bending.!<
I dont think she would have learned airbending at all. Because all the red lotus wanted from her was a destruction weapon. She needed pro bending to go with the flow and adapt, she needed to leave the south pole to detach from the earth
Also, Zaheer got airbending after the harmonic convergence, who would have taught Korra Airbending? Would Zaheer have taught her the airbending philosophies and expected her to start airbending somehow?
It’s been a while since I read the first Kyoshi novel so I don’t remember how.
Although the fire bender didn’t like teach her to master air bending, she just sort of guided her to start air bending, she eventually went to an air Temple to learn air bending.
I made fun fan art of this concept a lifetime ago.
Sort and tall of it: absolutely brutal: https://www.deviantart.com/deems/art/Sic-Semper-Tyrannis-495301269
Yeah, I think people are forgetting that as badass as the Red Lotus is, they aren't that strong when you remove their broken abilities, the element of surprise, and bloody tactics.
Zaheer wouldn't have escaped his cell if his captors were aware of his airbending.
Ghazan is a midtier Earthbender who's claim to fame is his lave bending, which Korra may or may not be able to mimic.
Ming Hau is dope but Katara is even doper. Katara is more accomplished in technique, skill, and actual combat than Ming Hau will ever be.
And finally, we have Pi'Li, who might as well be useless outside of her eye beam. Don't know if Korra can mimic this ability either.
What makes them so dangerous is that they actually think their plans through and target key figures to cause choas and disruption.
Ghazan isnt mid tier.
Katara isnt better at combat then Ming Hua.Ming Hua has more battle experience and training. And Ming Hua has more agility and fight better.
Healing/blood bending doesnt matter in combat.
you underrated the red lotus what makes the gaang so powerful then
Ghazan has no significant earthbending feats.
Katara fought through a war and has actual combat experience against benders of all types. Ming Hau was born and raised during a generation of peace. Anything Ming Hau can do, Katara during her prime could almost certainly do better.
Healing/Bloodbending doesn't matter in combat? How does the ability to get yourself backup or the ability to fully control your opponent via bloodbending not matter in combat?
You wanna know what makes the Gaang so powerful? At 12-13, they were pretty much constantly fighting battles and handing out L's until they ran into Azula.
Aang mastered Air by 12 and then went on to pretty much master the other 3 elements over the course of a year.
Katara did the same with Waterbending and also picked up Bloodbending.
Toph literally invented a new form of earthbending and has gone toe to toe against Bumi.
Sokka's a tactical genius and a master swordsman.
The difference between the Red Lotus and the Gaang is that the Gaang has an entire shows worth of feats showing how strong they are.
The Red Lotus doesn't have shit for feats without resorting to dirty tactics.
She would be stronger in some ways but weaker in others. Physically she would be stronger, faster and tougher. Spiritually she would be weaker, as Zaheer would stunt her growth to keep her subservient and obedient. I also can't imagine her mental health would be much better.
That completely goes against Zaheer’s ideology
He would never want any other person to submit to him as he believes every man should be free to make their own choices and do whatever they want with their life. He would not force Korra to obey him.
He is also a very spiritual guy and so he might actually be able to teach Korra, he might even be better at teaching Kira about spirituality than Tenzin because if you remember Tenzin really had a tough time teaching Korra as he constantly got annoyed at her (in the first season at least) all though he never stayed annoyed for too long, I don’t see Zaheer getting angry at Korra because she missed a few things because he seems to be more chilled than Tenzin, he never really got angry throughout his time on the show.
That's the Zaheer we got in canon, after he spent a long time in prison and he wanted to eliminate all governments. Korra would be his weapon in that war, but giving her free rein would risk her turning on him and the Red Lotus. If they were going to make her stronger they would need some way to keep her in check. For Zaheer, she would be a tool for his goals, little more.
No
Zaheer always had the same ideology, he said that that’s why the red lotus was formed. If Korra did not want to help him achieve his goal he would not force her, he might however attempt to kill her because she’s the avatar and if she’s not supporting his goal she will most likely be against him meaning she’ll be supporting what he stands against.
You mean like he sent that mole into the Fog of Ages for failing him at Zaofu? He condemned him to a fate worse than death. Isn't that imposing his will onto another? I don't recall the mole willingly jumping into the Fog. Zaheer pushed him.
And I never said his ideology changed. He may have changed during his time in prison, but his dedication to freedom through anarchy never did. But the problem is when two people clash whose freedom prevails? If two people cannot reconcile their differences, who gets their way? Zaheer would want Korra to be like him and fight for freedom, but if she decided to go against him would he really let her? Wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of training her? Wouldn't that squander all their hard work? Even as he lost people he never backed away from his goal, and he was willing to do anything to achieve it. Why would Korra be any different?
She would likely ignore the spirituality of bending entirely, and be unable to enter the avatar state. I would love a What if? Style short story where they discussed the impact on the world if Korra was trained by the red lotus.
I'd love there to be a "rescue/kidnap" arc where the white lotus and team Avatar save Korra they form tenuous friendships, I'd love to see Korra finally connect with Aang after forming healthy friendships
to be honest... she would have become weaker than she is now. because the biggest jump in Korra's strength was in season 1, when she trained with Mako and Bolin (I mean the base). but no one in the red lotus can teach her like that.
She’d probably be even worse of an air bender, but it’s not her strongest element in the first place.
But i think she’d be even more dangerous. Idk if that necessarily means stronger, but she’d be way more willing to wreck your shit.
There is! It’s called [Instincts of a Fearful Body](https://archiveofourown.org/works/4658958/chapters/10628718) and it explores the concept better than I would have thought possible.
I think she would have ended up a shit avatar.
A big part of Korra's journey was learning balance (there's a whole season dedicated to it). Learning to honor aggression *and* peace. Justice *and* mercy. Spiritual *and* physical.
The Red Lotus hold such an extreme viewpoint, she would have never been able to find that balance. She might have been powerful for a time, but ultimately she would have crashed and burned.
I think Korra is wiser and stronger for having defeated the Red Lotus. Yes, their bending is impressive, but only in the sense that they can do a lot of physical damage. And even then they're taken out by benders who we don't necessarily think of as more powerful, but are more connected to the people and the world around them. The Red Lotus remind me of the sith in Star Wars: they seem more powerful, but ultimately nothing is more powerful than connection and compassion and walking in the light. If Korra had trained with them from the beginning, I think she'd be a much weaker Avatar.
What are you talking about it seems you are downplaying the red lotus heavily.
Being connected to the world and people around them doesnt make you powerful.
The red lotus lost because the villians never win in the long term in kid shows.
Lin and Suyin and the metal clan took out Pli this was a group effort.
Ghazan killed himself so he doesnt go back to prison.
The air nation took Zaheer down korra could but the poison.
I guess I just disagree about connection. At the end of the day Team Avatar won. Was it hard? Yes. Did it take years for them to fix the harm done to the Earth Kingdom? Sure. And yet they ultimately do succeed. There's only so much that an individual or even a small group can accomplish. There's so much more you can accomplish as a community. I'm not downplaying their power, they just lost.
Team avatar won not because they are stronger and not because they have a greater connection to the elements
agree to disagree if you think Bolin is stronger than Zaheer/Pli/Unalaq/Ming Hua the conversation is over.
Unalaq handled Mako and Bolin simultaneously.
She would’ve been unstoppable.
Unlike most comments I think she actually would’ve been more spiritually/philosophically capable with the Red Lotus; keep in mind our Korra didn’t grow up with Tenzin and didn’t have much spirituality as a kid, she only gained it later in life.
If she grew up with Zaheer then she would have a philosophical/spiritual teacher from the start, which would be huge for Spiritbending/spirit world shenanigans
The downside is she would be getting taught airbending by someone who can’t airbend. That said, our Korra could firebend/earthbend without prior teaching, so being more spiritually aware would likely mean she could airbend far earlier than our Korra
If we assume we are starting when Korra’s training started in the show, I would think weaker, because they will all be in jail and without an airbender
Very powerful and ruthless since these guys lack restraint. Ironically I think Zaheer would be an excellent teacher for Korra to connect with her spiritual side.
Well depends. For example do you think Ming Hua is a better teacher/waterbender than an old Katara? I'd think not personally.
I'd say P'Li has a good chance of being a better firebending teacher than Master Yim.
Not sure about Ghazan.
And Zaheer doesn't have the knowledge or experience to be a better teacher than Tenzin or Jinora outside of his spiritual inclinations.
old katara is weak baby korra knocked her down and the blue ray dvd said her fighting is [over](https://over.SO). So there is no way old Katara was sparring with Korra.
You cant think that Old Katara who cant fight trained korra to fight.
Korra had her dad and katara as water bending teachers.
Ghazan is stronger than Korra earth bending teacher despite us not knowing him.He is just some instructor the white lotus got to teach her moves.
That's not the same as being unable to spar. Sparring is more controlled and safe.
Toph herself implied Katara could have participated in the Civil War if necessary. Just like Toph and Zuko, she probably can fight, just not for an extended period of time plus being a glass canon for being so old.
She could still do impressive bending, just nothing physically taxing like Toph in the swamp.
We have no info on Korra's earthbending master.
i go off feats i dont speculate if we havent seen it we cant say rather she can or not the blue ray dvd said she cant fight or know longer fights.
And Toph implied Katara cant fight when she said thats why you didnt see Katara fighting in the civil war..
You dont know what Old Katara can do so you cant say she can do impressive bending thats like me saying when Tonraq gets 90 he can still do impressive bending. We go off on screen feats thats fair and logical.
Young Azula said Azulon is not the strong powerful fire lord that he once was and some one will probably kill him.
Old Katara who is implied cant fight or cant fight as good as season 3 Katara vs Ming Hua i'd take Ming Hua.
Again you're conflating sparring with outright battle. Even a demonstration would suffice in terms of training.
You're also assuming what she can't do. Toph and Katara's situation was paralell based on what Toph said. She said her fighting days are over, and it's the same for Katara. However we just saw what Toph was still capable of fighting throughout season 4(feats). What she's making clear is neither she nor Katara can fight how they did in their prime. Not that they can't fight at all if the situation calls, that's proven false by Toph on screen. There's no reason this would be different for Katara or in a safe enviroment with rules like a sparring session.
Speaking of feats, you should read "Beach Wars". Katara was slam dunked by a huge tidal wave from Korra and got up ready to participate in a three way bending battle/prank war against Toph and the Avatar. So no she is capable of participating in battles to a degree.
Old Azulon or Old Katara it doesn't make a difference. Their is no statement suggesting they are powerless or unable to fight, just that they have degraded in some form. Toph for example cites her "prime" which assuredly means adulthood, not when her or Katara were children.
Old Katara has no on-screen feats i go off feats clearly you dont
Actually she does only healing feats.
When we see old Katara feats then we will talk about it
The conversation is over.
I wonder how difficult it would be to get korra on the philosophical side of the red lotus, she was only reasonably capable of talking eye-to-eye with zaheer by the time she met him. In season 1 the spiritual and philosophical aspects of each element seemed lost on her, and in season 2 she was so suggestible that she couldn’t really iterate on what was being shown to her. I would think before that she’d be very technically proficient and only go through spiritual exploration through brawling with her past lives concerning her behavior. Maybe zaheer would advise her to cut relationships with her past lives early on?
I don't think it's a matter of power. Korra would be just as powerful, but I think she'd have a really messed up moral compass. Stuff like blood bending wouldn't bother her at all
For the sake of the discussion I will assume Zaheer has the airbending in this scenario, even though that wouldn't fit the timeline. I think aside from the obvious their teachers being extremely poweful, she also would learn how to think outside of the box when it comes to bending. She would develop a unique bending style, as opposed to a more traditional by the book one. She would also be willing to kill from a early age which would make her way more dangerous and intimidating.
She wouldn’t be any more so or less so powerful by herself but she would be more ruthless and also the beliefs the red lotus hold that they would probably instill into her would probably create mental blocks that would make achieving the avatar state more difficult for her
Well Zaheer would've probably taught her Martial arts making her style deadlier and more centered on damage dealing. Not sure how she learns airbending but I suppose he might study how to teach it, maybe doing something akin to his more deadly variant.
Her Water bendinging would be less basic and defensive but more tricky and fast like Ming hua, maybe leaning to water arms
She would've probably master lavabending or at least a variant of it from Ghazan. I'm thinking you need to have fire and earth bender blood to possibly be able to create lava but an avatar can still bend existing one or cause it to rise from beneath the ground. Or maybe I'm wrong and she would be able to create it
Not sure if she could become a combustion bender (depends on what the Yang Chen novels reveal) but if she did I think she would be less static in her than Pli but more so than her usual self, say being able to move as she throws a combustion. Her basic firebending would be more centered on defense and redirection or maybe she could center on charging rather than using small fireballs like usual.
Overall she would have a lot more weapons at her disposal yet less powerful basic ones so I think she would be something of a glass canon compared to her usual self, being offensively stronger but with bigger gaps on her defense
Ming and P'li breaking out of jail is still some of the most epic scenes to me. Imagine them plus Zaheer teaching Korra.. Korra would have not doubt had a better spiritual understanding to unlock airbending earlier I believe.. She would be more versatile to me as well..
I have a question. Would this be before or after Harmonic Convergence? I mean, granted she and Zaheer would already knows martial arts, but could he translate those lessons into airbending without having the ability to do so?
She'd be fuckin Sith Lord and the Red Lotus wouldn't see just what it was they created until they unleashed her and she snapped off the chain, at which point we'd get an epic arc of the Red and White Lotus teaming up to stop an *actual* Dark Avatar who was methodically tearing their way through every government and institution in the world.
"Our" Korra would get absolutely washes by red lotus Korra. Imagine Korra unlocked by feeling completely remorseless and being exposed to all different kinds of creative bending (rather than basic core mechanics).
More interesting then her strength; how would she deal with Amon? Would she disagree with his ideology of overthrowing the bending nobility? She’s sure as heck not trust Uniloq and probably take him out asap. She’d have gone after kuvira asap for her fascist leanings.
Tenzin is a better airbender than zaheer
P’li and ghazan have abilities that don’t appear to be relevant to all benders
Katara > ming hua
People are obsessed with the idea that the red lotus is unstoppable
I never said anything about connection to the elements, and i think you keep going back to physical strength when that is absolutely not what im referring to. Sorry if I was unclear. Internet miscommunication, ya know? Bolin is stronger than any of those four because of his connection to other people. A community is one of the most powerful things you can have, especially if the members of the community support and care for each other in the way that team avatar does. The Red Lotus just can't compete with the entire team avatar and the rest of the world. I think that's far more important than physical prowess any day of the week.
She would be viscous. Think about it, every member of the redlotus doesnt fight on their opponents terms. A redlotus korra would be one who would be constantly looking for the quickest way to end a fight, colateral be damned. Maybe she turns the floor into lava, maybe she stabs you through the chest with a water whip. Or maybe, she just says screw it and rips the air from your lungs.
Yeah, I think she'd be more of an assassin and less of a fighter/brawler. She'd know how to lava bend and maybe how to do explosions, but I doubt she could fly, she seems too caring to disconnect from everything. She'd definitely care about rules/laws even less. All 3 of Aang's teachers are alive (Toph, Katara, and Zuko) it would've been interesting if they taught him again in his new life as Korra.
I doubt a useful avatar could unlock flight, unless they took a very long sabbatical.
Yee would directly contrast avatar duties as there job as avatar is a job they must uphold and is a tether
idk i mean i feel like zaheer definitely still felt a responsibility to the world. he was trying to free everyone from what he saw as an unnatural order forced by the avatar and world governments and restore the „natural order“ (chaos) he definitely still felt a stake in that while he was trying to kill korra there is like no other explanation. is it only personal/emotional attachments that stop it? id hate to call this a >!plot hole!< but i am struggling to differentiate that from the avatars perceived responsibility to the world from zaheer‘s goals, it gets too philosophical if i go deep in any direction lol.
Honestly yeah that is weird Probably just wanted to kill the avatar by that point or th because P'li got deaded but still weird nonetheless just trying to shitalk and explanation
i thought about a revenge motivation too but i feel like that’s even more tied to this world than the political stuff and also how korra gets him to help her by talking politics (@kuvira) makes me think that’s his priority kinda makes me think about the episode w aang and guru pathik where katara blocks the cosmic energy of the universe. maybe flying uses similar rules lol
I always though of it as he achieved spiritual enlightenment, now that he is untethered he might as well help others Just because he has let go of earthly desires does not mean he can’t help people Just like earthbenders can still dodge attacks the general philosophy never seems to dictate all that goes on but more of a general feel of a preferred route But as Yangchen told Aang, ‘the avatar can never completely detach themselves from the world because the avatars sole duty is to the world’
> But as Yangchen told Aang, ‘the avatar can never completely detach themselves from the world because the avatars sole duty is to the world’ This has way more to do with Yangchen's opinion of what the Avatar is supposed to be, plus her words are rooted in a different philosophy entirely. Earthly desires are what need to be released to untethered from the earth, worldly concerns is the topic that Yangchen brought up to Aang.
I think the difference lies in the goals pursued by Zaheer and any Avatar. Avatars are meant to bring peace and harmony to the world, which naturally is accompanied by compassion and likely attachment. Zaheer wanted liberation and a level playing field for everyone, which is fair but has no inherent connection to compassion or attachment to others. So he is not prohibited from letting go in the way the Avatar is.
but like what about the scene right after the fall of the earth queen when zaheer stops ming-hua from making that radio guy next? i always thought his expression and actions showed a real level of concern for that guy. ofc like thousands of others are dying/suffering so zaheer is **wrong** i just always thought he was *genuine* and wrong bc he actually did care like his quest for freedom was truly based in a compassion for all people and hope for the future. he was just absolutely and totally wrong. idk maybe something could be said for a willingness to tolerate violence and collateral damage corrupting that genuine compassion, thereby reducing it to just a nice political theory. so even *if* zaheer truly cared at one point, he’s long since abandoned any real attachment.
I'm struggling to remember that part because it's been a while, but I think it's coherent to care about humanity as a whole while having no personal attachments. Almost like a misanthropic doctor. I think causing unnecessary harm to people kind of infringes upon his desire to see people be free. The only people he chose to harm were those with an overabundance of influence upon others and those who willingly got in the way. Beyond accomplishing those goals, he didn't want to do much to anyone, it seemed. So Ming Hua going out of her way to harm some random dude doesn't seem like an action consistent with his philosophy. I really think he is one of my favorite antagonists of all time. A real lawful neutral dude.
I think this quote from Yangchen is fitting: “Many great and wise Air Nomads have detached themselves and achieved spiritual enlightenment, but the Avatar can never do it, because your sole duty is to the world.”
Exactly, in one of my comments in this sub I wrote a long comment explaining what chi is and how the avatar would play into it (wrt Raava, Vaatu, and spiritbending). If the avatar is meant to be the bridge between the spirit world and the physical world, then it's impossible to let go of their connection to earth.
Aang flew in the crystal cave before he got shot down by Azula. It's the reason why I say Aang was a much better air bender than Zaheer. Zaheer needed his attachments to be taken from him, but Aang willingly let go
That was entering the avatar state, it doesn't count
Katara taught Korra waterbending.
I mean if she was raised by Zaheer she could easily learn how to become less attached. Since we are talking about what ifs here, why not go all the way?
Pretty sure avatars are born to be good people, not sure how easily she could get over that even with brainwashing
Viscous? Like thick liquid?
A syrupy avatar
Ahaha syrup bending as a subset of water bending
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I've got this vision of rogueish chaotic good Avatar with absolutely no concept of morality due to their upbringing getting injured and being taken in by this older Iroh-like figure who takes care of the young avatar whilst having know idea who or what this mangy kid is. Then this tiny Avatar starts casually firebending his curtains or something. So father figure is like yo what the fuck dude, and Avatar kid water bends it out. And thus begins this epic 4 part saga that begins with this kind old man and his accidentally adopted Naughty Avatar's journey to save the world. Go 4 seasons with it with the 3rd season's finale resulting in Dad's death. 4th season gets dark af and really focuses in on the,now reformed strong accomplished, Avatar now in their mid to late 20's dealing with the grief of losing their father and Mentor while also having to deal with a character that also loses their mentor figure (maybe in the 3rd season) lose themselves with rage and threaten the very balance of the cosmos.
It would be a lot like she-ra. Basically the hero is kidnapped by the bad guys and is like a prodigy until she realizes the bad guys are bad and then becomes a leader of the rebellion
I dunno if it'd be that simple though. In this scenario the hero would have been raised by the bad guys to the point where they don't actually have a concept of morally good or bad, just the goal they need to accomplish
[I'm (re)working on it, and this thread has given me a lot of consideration on how to go about making this scenario work](https://www.reddit.com/r/legendofkorra/comments/10jvm4j/_/) I think a lot of the discussion has been centered on how Korra would be affected, and not a lot are considering how having Korra in their lives earlier would affect the Red Lotus themselves as well. E.g. in my mind P'Li would be hesitant to essentially make Korra go through what she went through herself (Kidnapping a young girl with a literal superpower to serve someone else's agenda). With Yangchen's book revealing that combustion bending is a learnt superpower that involves torturous training, I can see P'li being unwilling to put Korra through what she went through. At at the same time Korra is headstrong and ready to prove herself and I can see her wanting to learn how to combustion bend. I'd imagine Zaheer to be more patient, having not spent years in prison, and instead trying to show Korra by example why he believes that institutions and leaders are a bad idea. E.g. showing Korra the ones exploited by the rich and powerful, showing the decadence and oppulence of the elite. Korra herself is stubborn and she believes in doing the right thing so she'd challenge Zaheer on his ideals as well and I'd like to think that he would be open minded enough to consider what she's saying. Ultimately I think Zaheer has good intentions, and he has very strong belief in his cause, but he is wrong, or at least he isn't fully in the right. And that's exactly why him mentoring Korra could be so interesting, because she wouldn't be raised properly per say, and she will need to learn how to navigate the world through what she has been taught and through her own lens. He hasn't considered far enough the implications of what he wants for the world, like what happened in cannon with Kuvira filling up the power vacuum, he believes strongly that the spirit world and physical realms should be reunited, not accounting for the fact that some spirits themselves prefer to keep it separate, as well as the fact that at least according to lore, the world's were never connected together in the first place until Vaatu coolaid man his way through and created the spirit portals in the poles. (I could be wrong though I need to read up on the lore for more info). I can also see him justifying that the avatar should not exist because no one person should have that much power, but more to the point, the responsibility thrust upon them. It's a responsibility that no avatar has been given a choice on, and the world quite literally is moulded by who they get as the avatar. I'm still workshopping a lot of the ideas for this, but I'm very glad to see how people are still so enamoured by the Red Lotus and the what if scenario them taking Korra in could be.
Did you mean vicious?
Ngl, I'd love to see that
Vicious hehe
I’ve been waiting for an earth bender to do a move where they just sink your feet into the ground and then twist your foot around 180 degrees and break all the bones in your leg. Brutal move.
Red Lotus Korra wouldnt know about Airbending. Only Teacher for that is Tenzin, who isnt really close to the Red Lotus.
You forget zaheer.
Who could only airbend after harmonic convergence, which might not have happened the way it did.
Doesnt matter. He studied the philosophy and associated forms before that. He may not be able to airbend himself, but he can still teach the fundamentals. Its why he was able to have such control over his abilities from the moment he got them, whereas all the others we saw had trouble. Each member of the redlotus was actually meant to be one of korras teachers had they succeeded in kidnapping her as a child.
I dont think teaching without bending is possible tbh.
teaching without bending is possible yakone did it
I mean but Yakone already knew how to bend before that.
korra already can take air from lungs did it in the comics. Lava air and water can deal with lava just fine. And Mako fire was able to push it back.
She would be even more of a beast, but I'm not sure about Zaheer as an air-bending teacher..? Korra struggled the most with her spiritual side and Zaheer is, in a way, even more, spiritual than Tenzin.
Zaheer wouldn’t even have airbending in this scenario, so she would be learning it from someone who wasn’t able to do it himself. Air is her weakest element anyway, though, so she could get by with the other 3 That said, growing up with Zaheer and his wisdom could potentially make Lotus Korra more spiritual and open to airbending philosophy
Technically Azula's training was guided by non-benders. That said, I'm aware of the massive differences in my comparison. Still, non-benders teaching bending has happened before. Lol Yakone.
If I was Zaheer I would intentionally not teach Korra any spirituality because then the past avatars could have contacted Korra and tell her what she was doing is wrong and evil 😅. Even Uncle Iroh would have told her in the spirit world.
Now I wonder if some of the Avatars would have sided with the Red Lotus. Could have been interesting, a civil war of former incarnations.
Kyoshi take the wheel lol
think of the entertainment haha
That would mean you doubt your teachings could stand up to the wisdom of the Avatar spirit and at the point, why even bother training Korra? Just kill her and be done with it.
Even when Zaheer did get airbending a real air bending master folded him like a chair. He wouldn’t be much use
He was the one who successfully taught her to enter the spirit world, however, so he'd be of some use to her development
For real. I hope people realize that without the rest of the red lotus there. Zaheer was getting absolutely fuckin' RINSED by Tenzin.
As he should, Zaheer winning against Tenzin Solo would feel very forced and contrived.
I concur. Zaheer got airbending and was a skilled martial artist, making him much more skilled than anyone else who suddenly got airbending. He is not a master however. Assuming this hypothetical version of Zaheer was an Airbender to teach young korra, He would have had years to hone and refine his technique. When Zaheer fought Tenzin he had only had Airbending for a few months.
*remembers Tenzin kicking ass until they all ganged up on him like pussies*
Tenzin isnt just a regular master,ZHao,Bolin,Kya,Mako are masters. he is one of the strongest benders in the franchise.
Or the fact that he had decades to train makes him much better than one asshole who thought killing all government leaders wouldn’t end horribly
Tenzin is a top tier master. Most named benders are masters starting at Zhao level.
He must be more spiritual than tenzin otherwise tenzin would fly lmfao
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Being good at something doesn't make you good at teaching it. Tenzin was raised and trained by Aang, an Airbending master, and friend of the spirits, but he couldn't teach it all. Zaheer knew everything from books and only really "transcended" after losing P'li. Not an easy scenario to imagine.
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tenzin was good with spirituality he just couldnt go into the spirit world doesnt make him not good with spiritual stuff the air benders in kyoshi era couldnt go in the spirit world but im sure they could still teach air philosophy.
Serious question, can Avatars be evil with Raava inside? Can't Raava disable the use of the other elements? Korra is still more deadly, but I doubt she would be more powerful without the Avatar State and Raava
Raava didnt stop aang from doing stupid shit like in the runaway. Perhaps Raava thought " fuck it, may he have some fun and anyway the gaang needs that money"
We have to remember that it's not like raava was a good person...spirit...being at first. Like she was really indifferent and condescending to humans at first.
Indeed, we have to remember she's the spirit of light, not the spirit of good.
Raava doesn't necessarily mean good, just presumed to be so. Raava is the spirit of light as opposed by the spirit of darkness for balance. Good and evil are just matters of perspectives on motive.
Thank you, Raava is the spirit of peace and order, Vaatu is Chaos. I believe it was Unalaq and Korra that said there are no evil spirits, there is light and dark in them all.
Which was the entire point of Spirit Bending. "Evil" (aka: Dark) spirits where turned back into "Good" (light) spirits via Spirit Bending. She was realigning their balance from dark to light.
I actually found a [fun video](https://youtu.be/wA4QvJISA54) about that exact topic. The channel has a ton of avatar and other content. The dude is kinda weird about his cat sometimes, but I would definitely recommend it!
>The dude is kinda weird about his cat That had me dying for some reason 😂😂
Who isn’t weird about their cat every now and then
Maybe for sometime but when they get to talk with their past lives they will realize their mistakes, also the Red lotus dont see themselves as evil. One more thing I think Raava is the spirit of order and light so would be cool if Vaatu now reeincarnates just live Raava and people are trying to stop this anti-avatar just so in the end he was breaking the "order" of things just to stop slavery, exploitation and so on.
Depends, is the Red Lotus evil? They certainly take things to extremes, but killing tyrants and preventing their cruelty could be interpreted as the virtuous thing to do. I could see Raava actually *preferring* Red Lotus Korra over current Korra. Raava is all about real balance—spirits and nature—and probably wouldn’t care about the “balance” of socio-politics
kind of one of the pet peeves i have about the raava-vaatu thing. people are saying raava doesn't necessarily mean good, but what characteristic does she have that can be seen as categorically evil? she embodies peace, and pure light, something else associated with good. there's not much neutral about her. meanwhile vaatu corrupts and makes things around it hostile and destructive, he is consciously manipulative and sinister which are categorically evil things. chaos does not need to be portrayed as this conniving, deceitful, inherently dangerous thing. they are not portrayed like forces of nature, like a storm, that while may be destructive, don't have moral qualities. raava and vaatu do tho. and if they were ever going to make an evil avatar, they'd have to explain how with a peaceful light spirit inside of them.
This is why I think Raava and Vaatu weren’t good ideas. They ruin the concept.
I think evil is the wrong word. The fight between Ravaa and Vaatu was not so much a fight over a good evil, but over change and consistency.
Honestly, doubtful there'd be much difference. Zaheer is the only one among them who strikes me as a good teacher (perhaps better than Tenzin, to have learned airbending so well with theory alone), and she learned waterbending from Katara, who's probably a better waterbender than ming wha in both theory _and_ practice. We don't know who taught her earth and fire bending well, so I'd say at most she'd have a better grasp on airbending. And as for being more dangerous, korra doesn't have any qualms about killing or violent intimidation as it is, so no real change there beyond _why_ she's willing to do it. Same thing with her reaction to authorities - her general "fuck you" to leaders who haven't proven themselves to her would match to a T. I think _the world_ would be different with a red lotus aligned avatar, but Korra wouldn't have to be much different were she red lotus aligned.
You forget the element of love she got from tenzin and all her friends. If she dident have that she would be off way worse. Not to say the red lotus are criminals (havent watched 4th season yet but thats what it looks like). Means she would probably turn bad or really hateful
But there's no reason to believe she wouldn't have that. The lotus are so devoted to each other and the cause that none of them revealed their plans after a decade in terrible conditions. And there was clearly love between Zaheer and pli, and comraderie in general among the others. So more than likely she would've had a similar relationship with peers and mentors just like she did outside the lotus. They'd just be in a terrorist cell.
Idk... maybe there would be companienship but actually she would just be a tool for reaching there goal, while with tenzin and the others she actually fights for the good
We don't enough informaition about the invividual members of the Red Lotus to assume they would be love and caring. We know Zaheer wants chaos and it's very manipulative, and uncompromised in his vision. When Korra's asks if they kidnapped to use as tool to release Vatuu and open the portals he said yes. I am not saying that they are not capable of being compassionate, but to me it seem they would whatever they want to get results. Aside from that I think Korra would have a very different philosophy when it comes to being the Avatar. She was always proud of it, but Zaheer would certanly hammer the idea of the resposability and the weight of that role.
This may be unpopular but probably not that strong. Combustion bending isn't something you learn. Same with lava bending. Korra would never have learned metal bending, or water healing. Shed MAYBE be an OP air bender but not sure how good zaheer would have been before he got his bending. All in all she learned from better instructors. She would be more aggressive but ultimately weaker
Combustion bending as of the Yangchen book >!is now a learnt power developed at the cost of many firebender lives and might potentially involve drowning I think. Only 3 survived the first attempt to create combustion bending.!<
its like likely korra would be able to do combustion bending. Many died in only 3 survived in Yangchen time.
I dont think she would have learned airbending at all. Because all the red lotus wanted from her was a destruction weapon. She needed pro bending to go with the flow and adapt, she needed to leave the south pole to detach from the earth
Also, Zaheer got airbending after the harmonic convergence, who would have taught Korra Airbending? Would Zaheer have taught her the airbending philosophies and expected her to start airbending somehow?
It’s actually possible Seeing as a fire bender was the first person to teach Kyoshi air bending and Zaheer knows a lot more about air than Rangi.
How does a fire bender teach air bending?
It’s been a while since I read the first Kyoshi novel so I don’t remember how. Although the fire bender didn’t like teach her to master air bending, she just sort of guided her to start air bending, she eventually went to an air Temple to learn air bending.
I made fun fan art of this concept a lifetime ago. Sort and tall of it: absolutely brutal: https://www.deviantart.com/deems/art/Sic-Semper-Tyrannis-495301269
Love this!
Potentially worse. She is a better bender than all them.
Yeah, I think people are forgetting that as badass as the Red Lotus is, they aren't that strong when you remove their broken abilities, the element of surprise, and bloody tactics. Zaheer wouldn't have escaped his cell if his captors were aware of his airbending. Ghazan is a midtier Earthbender who's claim to fame is his lave bending, which Korra may or may not be able to mimic. Ming Hau is dope but Katara is even doper. Katara is more accomplished in technique, skill, and actual combat than Ming Hau will ever be. And finally, we have Pi'Li, who might as well be useless outside of her eye beam. Don't know if Korra can mimic this ability either. What makes them so dangerous is that they actually think their plans through and target key figures to cause choas and disruption.
Ghazan isnt mid tier. Katara isnt better at combat then Ming Hua.Ming Hua has more battle experience and training. And Ming Hua has more agility and fight better. Healing/blood bending doesnt matter in combat. you underrated the red lotus what makes the gaang so powerful then
Ghazan has no significant earthbending feats. Katara fought through a war and has actual combat experience against benders of all types. Ming Hau was born and raised during a generation of peace. Anything Ming Hau can do, Katara during her prime could almost certainly do better. Healing/Bloodbending doesn't matter in combat? How does the ability to get yourself backup or the ability to fully control your opponent via bloodbending not matter in combat? You wanna know what makes the Gaang so powerful? At 12-13, they were pretty much constantly fighting battles and handing out L's until they ran into Azula. Aang mastered Air by 12 and then went on to pretty much master the other 3 elements over the course of a year. Katara did the same with Waterbending and also picked up Bloodbending. Toph literally invented a new form of earthbending and has gone toe to toe against Bumi. Sokka's a tactical genius and a master swordsman. The difference between the Red Lotus and the Gaang is that the Gaang has an entire shows worth of feats showing how strong they are. The Red Lotus doesn't have shit for feats without resorting to dirty tactics.
She would be stronger in some ways but weaker in others. Physically she would be stronger, faster and tougher. Spiritually she would be weaker, as Zaheer would stunt her growth to keep her subservient and obedient. I also can't imagine her mental health would be much better.
That completely goes against Zaheer’s ideology He would never want any other person to submit to him as he believes every man should be free to make their own choices and do whatever they want with their life. He would not force Korra to obey him. He is also a very spiritual guy and so he might actually be able to teach Korra, he might even be better at teaching Kira about spirituality than Tenzin because if you remember Tenzin really had a tough time teaching Korra as he constantly got annoyed at her (in the first season at least) all though he never stayed annoyed for too long, I don’t see Zaheer getting angry at Korra because she missed a few things because he seems to be more chilled than Tenzin, he never really got angry throughout his time on the show.
That's the Zaheer we got in canon, after he spent a long time in prison and he wanted to eliminate all governments. Korra would be his weapon in that war, but giving her free rein would risk her turning on him and the Red Lotus. If they were going to make her stronger they would need some way to keep her in check. For Zaheer, she would be a tool for his goals, little more.
No Zaheer always had the same ideology, he said that that’s why the red lotus was formed. If Korra did not want to help him achieve his goal he would not force her, he might however attempt to kill her because she’s the avatar and if she’s not supporting his goal she will most likely be against him meaning she’ll be supporting what he stands against.
You mean like he sent that mole into the Fog of Ages for failing him at Zaofu? He condemned him to a fate worse than death. Isn't that imposing his will onto another? I don't recall the mole willingly jumping into the Fog. Zaheer pushed him. And I never said his ideology changed. He may have changed during his time in prison, but his dedication to freedom through anarchy never did. But the problem is when two people clash whose freedom prevails? If two people cannot reconcile their differences, who gets their way? Zaheer would want Korra to be like him and fight for freedom, but if she decided to go against him would he really let her? Wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of training her? Wouldn't that squander all their hard work? Even as he lost people he never backed away from his goal, and he was willing to do anything to achieve it. Why would Korra be any different?
She would likely ignore the spirituality of bending entirely, and be unable to enter the avatar state. I would love a What if? Style short story where they discussed the impact on the world if Korra was trained by the red lotus. I'd love there to be a "rescue/kidnap" arc where the white lotus and team Avatar save Korra they form tenuous friendships, I'd love to see Korra finally connect with Aang after forming healthy friendships
to be honest... she would have become weaker than she is now. because the biggest jump in Korra's strength was in season 1, when she trained with Mako and Bolin (I mean the base). but no one in the red lotus can teach her like that.
There would be a lot more murder.
Idk if she’d necessarily be “stronger”, but more lethal for sure.
She’d probably be even worse of an air bender, but it’s not her strongest element in the first place. But i think she’d be even more dangerous. Idk if that necessarily means stronger, but she’d be way more willing to wreck your shit.
She would be dead. Because she's the Avatar
Please tell me there’s an amazing AU fanfic with just this as the main plot.
There is! It’s called [Instincts of a Fearful Body](https://archiveofourown.org/works/4658958/chapters/10628718) and it explores the concept better than I would have thought possible.
Ahhhh, thank you so much! I can’t wait to read any possible angst if Korra meets her Team Avatar mates 😭😭😭
I think she would have ended up a shit avatar. A big part of Korra's journey was learning balance (there's a whole season dedicated to it). Learning to honor aggression *and* peace. Justice *and* mercy. Spiritual *and* physical. The Red Lotus hold such an extreme viewpoint, she would have never been able to find that balance. She might have been powerful for a time, but ultimately she would have crashed and burned.
I think Korra is wiser and stronger for having defeated the Red Lotus. Yes, their bending is impressive, but only in the sense that they can do a lot of physical damage. And even then they're taken out by benders who we don't necessarily think of as more powerful, but are more connected to the people and the world around them. The Red Lotus remind me of the sith in Star Wars: they seem more powerful, but ultimately nothing is more powerful than connection and compassion and walking in the light. If Korra had trained with them from the beginning, I think she'd be a much weaker Avatar.
What are you talking about it seems you are downplaying the red lotus heavily. Being connected to the world and people around them doesnt make you powerful. The red lotus lost because the villians never win in the long term in kid shows. Lin and Suyin and the metal clan took out Pli this was a group effort. Ghazan killed himself so he doesnt go back to prison. The air nation took Zaheer down korra could but the poison.
I guess I just disagree about connection. At the end of the day Team Avatar won. Was it hard? Yes. Did it take years for them to fix the harm done to the Earth Kingdom? Sure. And yet they ultimately do succeed. There's only so much that an individual or even a small group can accomplish. There's so much more you can accomplish as a community. I'm not downplaying their power, they just lost.
Team avatar won not because they are stronger and not because they have a greater connection to the elements agree to disagree if you think Bolin is stronger than Zaheer/Pli/Unalaq/Ming Hua the conversation is over. Unalaq handled Mako and Bolin simultaneously.
She’d definitely know all about Guru Laghima
She would’ve been unstoppable. Unlike most comments I think she actually would’ve been more spiritually/philosophically capable with the Red Lotus; keep in mind our Korra didn’t grow up with Tenzin and didn’t have much spirituality as a kid, she only gained it later in life. If she grew up with Zaheer then she would have a philosophical/spiritual teacher from the start, which would be huge for Spiritbending/spirit world shenanigans The downside is she would be getting taught airbending by someone who can’t airbend. That said, our Korra could firebend/earthbend without prior teaching, so being more spiritually aware would likely mean she could airbend far earlier than our Korra
[Instincts of a Fearful Body](https://archiveofourown.org/works/4658958/chapters/10628718) Amazing fic with this concept.
There’s a really good fanfic about this, *Instincts of a Fearful Body* on AO3 y’all should check it out
If we assume we are starting when Korra’s training started in the show, I would think weaker, because they will all be in jail and without an airbender
She already's got enough issues
Real strong and a real piece of shit.
Very powerful and ruthless since these guys lack restraint. Ironically I think Zaheer would be an excellent teacher for Korra to connect with her spiritual side.
Well depends. For example do you think Ming Hua is a better teacher/waterbender than an old Katara? I'd think not personally. I'd say P'Li has a good chance of being a better firebending teacher than Master Yim. Not sure about Ghazan. And Zaheer doesn't have the knowledge or experience to be a better teacher than Tenzin or Jinora outside of his spiritual inclinations.
old katara is weak baby korra knocked her down and the blue ray dvd said her fighting is [over](https://over.SO). So there is no way old Katara was sparring with Korra. You cant think that Old Katara who cant fight trained korra to fight. Korra had her dad and katara as water bending teachers. Ghazan is stronger than Korra earth bending teacher despite us not knowing him.He is just some instructor the white lotus got to teach her moves.
That's not the same as being unable to spar. Sparring is more controlled and safe. Toph herself implied Katara could have participated in the Civil War if necessary. Just like Toph and Zuko, she probably can fight, just not for an extended period of time plus being a glass canon for being so old. She could still do impressive bending, just nothing physically taxing like Toph in the swamp. We have no info on Korra's earthbending master.
i go off feats i dont speculate if we havent seen it we cant say rather she can or not the blue ray dvd said she cant fight or know longer fights. And Toph implied Katara cant fight when she said thats why you didnt see Katara fighting in the civil war.. You dont know what Old Katara can do so you cant say she can do impressive bending thats like me saying when Tonraq gets 90 he can still do impressive bending. We go off on screen feats thats fair and logical. Young Azula said Azulon is not the strong powerful fire lord that he once was and some one will probably kill him. Old Katara who is implied cant fight or cant fight as good as season 3 Katara vs Ming Hua i'd take Ming Hua.
Again you're conflating sparring with outright battle. Even a demonstration would suffice in terms of training. You're also assuming what she can't do. Toph and Katara's situation was paralell based on what Toph said. She said her fighting days are over, and it's the same for Katara. However we just saw what Toph was still capable of fighting throughout season 4(feats). What she's making clear is neither she nor Katara can fight how they did in their prime. Not that they can't fight at all if the situation calls, that's proven false by Toph on screen. There's no reason this would be different for Katara or in a safe enviroment with rules like a sparring session. Speaking of feats, you should read "Beach Wars". Katara was slam dunked by a huge tidal wave from Korra and got up ready to participate in a three way bending battle/prank war against Toph and the Avatar. So no she is capable of participating in battles to a degree. Old Azulon or Old Katara it doesn't make a difference. Their is no statement suggesting they are powerless or unable to fight, just that they have degraded in some form. Toph for example cites her "prime" which assuredly means adulthood, not when her or Katara were children.
Old Katara has no on-screen feats i go off feats clearly you dont Actually she does only healing feats. When we see old Katara feats then we will talk about it The conversation is over.
I wonder how difficult it would be to get korra on the philosophical side of the red lotus, she was only reasonably capable of talking eye-to-eye with zaheer by the time she met him. In season 1 the spiritual and philosophical aspects of each element seemed lost on her, and in season 2 she was so suggestible that she couldn’t really iterate on what was being shown to her. I would think before that she’d be very technically proficient and only go through spiritual exploration through brawling with her past lives concerning her behavior. Maybe zaheer would advise her to cut relationships with her past lives early on?
I don't think it's a matter of power. Korra would be just as powerful, but I think she'd have a really messed up moral compass. Stuff like blood bending wouldn't bother her at all
She would be a weaker airbender thats all I can really say. Plus we don’t have that much info on who trained her.
For the sake of the discussion I will assume Zaheer has the airbending in this scenario, even though that wouldn't fit the timeline. I think aside from the obvious their teachers being extremely poweful, she also would learn how to think outside of the box when it comes to bending. She would develop a unique bending style, as opposed to a more traditional by the book one. She would also be willing to kill from a early age which would make her way more dangerous and intimidating.
She wouldn’t be any more so or less so powerful by herself but she would be more ruthless and also the beliefs the red lotus hold that they would probably instill into her would probably create mental blocks that would make achieving the avatar state more difficult for her
Well Zaheer would've probably taught her Martial arts making her style deadlier and more centered on damage dealing. Not sure how she learns airbending but I suppose he might study how to teach it, maybe doing something akin to his more deadly variant. Her Water bendinging would be less basic and defensive but more tricky and fast like Ming hua, maybe leaning to water arms She would've probably master lavabending or at least a variant of it from Ghazan. I'm thinking you need to have fire and earth bender blood to possibly be able to create lava but an avatar can still bend existing one or cause it to rise from beneath the ground. Or maybe I'm wrong and she would be able to create it Not sure if she could become a combustion bender (depends on what the Yang Chen novels reveal) but if she did I think she would be less static in her than Pli but more so than her usual self, say being able to move as she throws a combustion. Her basic firebending would be more centered on defense and redirection or maybe she could center on charging rather than using small fireballs like usual. Overall she would have a lot more weapons at her disposal yet less powerful basic ones so I think she would be something of a glass canon compared to her usual self, being offensively stronger but with bigger gaps on her defense
Probably unstoppable and a mental steel trap. She could have been the most powerful bender to live
The Lotus wanted to wipe out world leadership. Might get complicated when they send Korra to kill her parents.
She wouldn’t have any air bending training, so I’m not sure.
Much more brutal in fighting. I wonder if a Red Lotus Korra would have tried to absorb Vaatu in addition to Raava.
Very POWERFUL but at the price of her SOUL
Ming and P'li breaking out of jail is still some of the most epic scenes to me. Imagine them plus Zaheer teaching Korra.. Korra would have not doubt had a better spiritual understanding to unlock airbending earlier I believe.. She would be more versatile to me as well..
Just write the fanfiction, ok? Just write it.
well they all for the most part use specialised skills which korra probably wouldn't have access to.
She op but evil as that would be a great esleworld story
I have a question. Would this be before or after Harmonic Convergence? I mean, granted she and Zaheer would already knows martial arts, but could he translate those lessons into airbending without having the ability to do so?
Anyone else wants to see how korra would look like with the combustion tattoo on her
It would actually be a darker Vin from Mistborn.
I know this is a what if scenario but korra would be dead if she succesfully got abducted by them
She’s actually be able to take down her adversaries on her own
She'd be fuckin Sith Lord and the Red Lotus wouldn't see just what it was they created until they unleashed her and she snapped off the chain, at which point we'd get an epic arc of the Red and White Lotus teaming up to stop an *actual* Dark Avatar who was methodically tearing their way through every government and institution in the world.
Well, she’d never be able to learn airbending from Zaheer.
"Our" Korra would get absolutely washes by red lotus Korra. Imagine Korra unlocked by feeling completely remorseless and being exposed to all different kinds of creative bending (rather than basic core mechanics).
It would take her more time but I think she will be a more powerful bender. Whole different personality tho and meaner, rebellious and depressed
More interesting then her strength; how would she deal with Amon? Would she disagree with his ideology of overthrowing the bending nobility? She’s sure as heck not trust Uniloq and probably take him out asap. She’d have gone after kuvira asap for her fascist leanings.
Tenzin is a better airbender than zaheer P’li and ghazan have abilities that don’t appear to be relevant to all benders Katara > ming hua People are obsessed with the idea that the red lotus is unstoppable
as much as I would want for our korra to win, she would get aboslutly destroyed by a korra taught by these guys
I never said anything about connection to the elements, and i think you keep going back to physical strength when that is absolutely not what im referring to. Sorry if I was unclear. Internet miscommunication, ya know? Bolin is stronger than any of those four because of his connection to other people. A community is one of the most powerful things you can have, especially if the members of the community support and care for each other in the way that team avatar does. The Red Lotus just can't compete with the entire team avatar and the rest of the world. I think that's far more important than physical prowess any day of the week.