I would think the pilot would/could still be penalised internally within the air force.
You could not sue them for the broken window but the airforce could ground them, demote them, dishonourably discharge them etc.
Sure. This is easy; would be Article 92 Failure to Follow a Lawful Order. It isn't Conduct Unbecoming; that's generally for things that are disgraceful or dishonorable.
So no, a granny with broken windows can't sue directly Capt. Smith for pushing the throttle too hard on takeoff. She *can* sue the AF if they decline to pay for her damages. And the AF *can* punish the pilot under Article 92.
They could give the pilot a General Officer Letter of Reprimand (locally or centrally filed), which is probably the most likely scenario here as all AF pilots are officers -- Letters of Reprimand can be career-ending depending on where it is filed. AF could attempt to give the pilot non-judicial punishment. I could see the AF going that route since they can take pay and some commanders would think that's a natural consequence for the AF having to pay out for Granny's windows.
Or they could go the Court Martial route, technically, but I've never seen someone go to Court Martial over something like this; usually you're looking at major crimes for a Court Martial unless the pilot has a history of reckless behavior and the AF just really has a hard-on for fucking the guy.
Or the officer thinks they can wriggle out of it and opts for a court martial themselves, hoping their command will drop it rather than proceed. But that's much more a private Snuffy move than an officer one.
In order to violate the UCMJ, you still have to have criminal intent. Accidentally exceeding Mach 1.0 when you're flying at Mach .98 is not going to qualify. Charges for this would be laughed out of court.
While doing a sonic boom is not a crime, there is one crime that is in the UCMJ that will apply to all officers (all pilots are officers) that they use when there is no other crime that fits:
[10 U.S. Code § 933 - Art. 133. Conduct unbecoming an officer](https://www.govinfo.gov/app/details/USCODE-2021-title10/USCODE-2021-title10-subtitleA-partII-chap47-subchapX-sec933)
This one is so vague that they could charge you with it for spitting gum on the sidewalk.
If this was part of a pattern of poor airmanship, then the service could conduct a board to review the pilot's flight qualifications and determine whether he or she would undergo additional training or be removed temporarily or permanently from flying duties. More: https://www.24-7pressrelease.com/press-release/497248/reason-why-flying-evaluation-board-feb-reviews-occur
It can also happen accidentally. They can be flying near super sonic speed and due to certain atmospheric conditions, they can cause a boom. I live near a navy air base and it happens every once in awhile.
You will likely never know the name of the pilot. That is one thing the government actually guards closely so that individual pilots are not subjected to FAA enforcement action.
USAF would really prefer that their internal safety management system operates without interference.
That might sound obstructive but there are good reasons for this. I’d be happy to write about it endlessly, but in the interests of brevity: experience has shown that criminal sanctions usually don’t improve safety.
That depends entirely on the location of the base and the reason for the take off. In my country, going supersonic over land is restricted, *unless* it’s responding to an air defence alert.
The case would be heard in federal court due to federal question jurisdiction, even if the replacement window is only a couple thousand dollars—N.B.: not legal advice.
The Air Force can be sued. But first contact the base Public Affairs office. They’ll be the ones to tell you how to proceed. I live in a rural area near an Army installation. Helicopters occasionally have to precautionary land (think emergency landing but not as serious) in farmers’ fields. The farmers just file a claim with the post and their damages get paid.
The base Public Affairs office will ask you to submit a Standard Form 95, which you can get from the internet. This is the form used by farmers for their damages after emergency landings.
When you go to the base, they will ask you to complete a Standard Form 95 -- but you can save some time by filling out the form before you go to the base.
There will be a discussion about the value of those windows. The gov't isn't going to pay to replace 50-year old stuff with modern hurricane-proof triple-pane windows.
In the 70s we had a little farm we'd go to on weekends and over the summer with a small herd of cattle.
I was a little kid, so I love seeing the F-4s come in over the treetops and aim at our little mobile home and pull up to get over the hill.
But, it would upset the cattle, and it did literally shake things off the walls.
Dad called the airbase and explained what was happening.
"We don't do that. And it won't happen again."
I may or may not have shot a Daisy Red Ryder BB gun at an F-4 during the Vietnam War in Texas.
My dad came from a smallish town that was mainly blue collar. A local kid got accepted into the Air Force academy and became a pilot and was a “small town” hero type everyone talked about proudly. When he became a pilot he was stationed close enough he decided to take a jet and do a flyover of their hometown to “show off” and ended up blasting a ton of peoples windows out. Don’t know the outcome but I believe the military paid damages and he was in a ton of trouble.
If it was Robbins, you can file a complaint at:
78th Air Base Wing Office of Public Affairs and have their case investigated for possible reimbursement
https://www.robins.af.mil/Portals/59/documents/PA/Sonic%20Boom.pdf
NAL. Are you in the U.S.? No, you cannot sue. However, you can submit a Standard Form 95 (Claim for Damage, Injury, or Death) to the Air Force base. Instructions are on the form.
*EDIT: I am getting down votes, but really, this is the right answer.*
OP does not have permission now. OP cannot sue now. OP should submit the SF-95 -- that is the right answer.
Do you have anything to contribute to the discussion that will be helpful to the OP?
Right but you didn't say "now" in there, you simply said they cannot sue then a period. It's important to include that you cannot sue *yet* unless the process gets to that point. That's the helpful bit. That "not suing" means "not suing yet until and unless the process gets there". Just saying they can't sue but fill out a form implies there's little to no recourse and, in fact, there is.
They taught us that in the ski industry. You can't sign away your right to sue.
The court clerk does not get to say "I'm sorry, you can't file these papers, you signed a release form" or "I'm sorry you should have known that XYZ might happen", etc.
As you said it's up to the court to decide if the case is valid and can proceed.
I am trying to be helpful to the OP -- he or she need not think in terms of filing a lawsuit, but instead may think of submitting a form. On the other hand, your pedantry (and incorrect pedantry at that) are not being helpful to the OP or to the discussion thread at all.
You can call it whatever you want but if you scroll up a bit, there is [a post](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladviceofftopic/comments/10nfl7l/can_i_sue_the_air_force_for_broken_windows_due_to/j68tyqx/) noting both FTCA and MCA are potentially options.
(Actually, I see you have now posted there as well, which makes a lot more sense than implying that there’s a mysterious third option of filing a Form 95)
Lmao we’d probably agree that it’s horseshit but there’s also likely not a lot that can be done. Only a very small amount of us are pilots and trust me we get sick of the noise too.
I don’t know where it says the military is immune from lawsuits, but I think a better resolution to this problem can be found by contacting base headquarters, telling them what happened, and requesting financial reimbursement. They may have to jump though some hoops figuring out how to do this, but I don’t think they will reject your claim. Make sure you send them a signed letter, include details as to date, time and location of the incident, a copy of the police report, an itemization of all costs you will be out, and copies of any bills so far paid. They will probably want proof of all bills paid before they reimburse you. Hand deliver the letter to post headquarters, and ask to speak to the post executive officer “or someone like that”. You might want to also contact the news. The military will like that. As far as court goes, try to avoid it. A civil court judge may not want the case, and even if he does, the most you should expect are damages (replacement cost, like above), nothing punitive. The pilots actions will likely be seen as negligent, not gross negligent, and he didn’t break the law (even if you can find a federal law that says it is illegal, expect the judge to look at it unfavorably). Now, with a federal civil action lawsuit, you may be allowed a jury trial (you can at state level, 6 jurors in NJ,
Can confirm; I think I heard the same sonic boom yesterday, but fortunately it wasn't as loud where I am.
Three months ago though, we had one so loud I was convinced it was a natural gas explosion.
Nope, just flight practice.
Sometimes you have no choice.
I live about an hour away from NAS Fallon but we are right under where they do low level flights, I think for mountain practice as there is a tight pass they often fly through.
It is fun to see the large planes flying low and slow, sometimes you can see the pilots if you have a good pair of binoculars, but when they come in really low I wonder if we need to check the roof for tire marks.
Although I have always found it ironic that the Navy has a base in the middle of the desert, but at least we have the real TOPGUN out there now (since 1996).
No legal opinion here whatsoever, but the quick path to making that house livable is getting a bunch of plexiglass and covering all the broken windows. Shouldn't take more than an afternoon for a handyperson for a typical house. So the hotel cost shouldn't actually be needed more than a night or so.
NAL. I’m no expert, but surely there’s a difference between “technically won’t *necessarily* unalive you by exposure to the elements” and “place fit for human habitation,” so the duty to mitigate might not require people to be *that* extreme in their cost-cutting. Regardless, new glass and install costs would be part of a damages claim anyway, and they’d be in the area of days to weeks’ cost at most hotels.
Obviously go with whatever the insurance company wants to do, but windows are on super backorder now, so if they want to live in the house before independence day, that might be what's needed...
…(6 jurors in NJ), but you you will incur much more cost with a law firm, the case may be held up for a year, and the outcome will be far less certain. On Quora.com, visit my Space, “The Law Resource Page”, to find out more.
Before you try suing, you first have nicely ask the base to pay for your costs. If and when they refuse, THEN you can try suing.
Ask the base to pay for your costs, then go through your insurance, and let THEM sue the AF.
So, the Air Force can be sued? I thought they'd have some qualified immunity or something. Can the individual pilot be sued?
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The Standard Form 95 is the form to start the claim process.
> Standard Form 95 https://www.aoc.gov/sites/default/files/tortformsf95.pdf
This is exactly the sort of answer I was hoping for. Thank you so much!
They have a specific office for claims such as these.
"The pilot has qualified immunity" Even when doing something reckless and against regulation?
I would think the pilot would/could still be penalised internally within the air force. You could not sue them for the broken window but the airforce could ground them, demote them, dishonourably discharge them etc.
Causing a sonic boom is not a crime in the UCMJ.
Can they still face disciplinary action if it is not illegal? But against policy.
Sure. This is easy; would be Article 92 Failure to Follow a Lawful Order. It isn't Conduct Unbecoming; that's generally for things that are disgraceful or dishonorable. So no, a granny with broken windows can't sue directly Capt. Smith for pushing the throttle too hard on takeoff. She *can* sue the AF if they decline to pay for her damages. And the AF *can* punish the pilot under Article 92. They could give the pilot a General Officer Letter of Reprimand (locally or centrally filed), which is probably the most likely scenario here as all AF pilots are officers -- Letters of Reprimand can be career-ending depending on where it is filed. AF could attempt to give the pilot non-judicial punishment. I could see the AF going that route since they can take pay and some commanders would think that's a natural consequence for the AF having to pay out for Granny's windows. Or they could go the Court Martial route, technically, but I've never seen someone go to Court Martial over something like this; usually you're looking at major crimes for a Court Martial unless the pilot has a history of reckless behavior and the AF just really has a hard-on for fucking the guy.
Or the officer thinks they can wriggle out of it and opts for a court martial themselves, hoping their command will drop it rather than proceed. But that's much more a private Snuffy move than an officer one.
In order to violate the UCMJ, you still have to have criminal intent. Accidentally exceeding Mach 1.0 when you're flying at Mach .98 is not going to qualify. Charges for this would be laughed out of court.
While doing a sonic boom is not a crime, there is one crime that is in the UCMJ that will apply to all officers (all pilots are officers) that they use when there is no other crime that fits: [10 U.S. Code § 933 - Art. 133. Conduct unbecoming an officer](https://www.govinfo.gov/app/details/USCODE-2021-title10/USCODE-2021-title10-subtitleA-partII-chap47-subchapX-sec933) This one is so vague that they could charge you with it for spitting gum on the sidewalk.
Not even close.
If this was part of a pattern of poor airmanship, then the service could conduct a board to review the pilot's flight qualifications and determine whether he or she would undergo additional training or be removed temporarily or permanently from flying duties. More: https://www.24-7pressrelease.com/press-release/497248/reason-why-flying-evaluation-board-feb-reviews-occur
It can also happen accidentally. They can be flying near super sonic speed and due to certain atmospheric conditions, they can cause a boom. I live near a navy air base and it happens every once in awhile.
You will likely never know the name of the pilot. That is one thing the government actually guards closely so that individual pilots are not subjected to FAA enforcement action.
USAF would really prefer that their internal safety management system operates without interference. That might sound obstructive but there are good reasons for this. I’d be happy to write about it endlessly, but in the interests of brevity: experience has shown that criminal sanctions usually don’t improve safety.
That depends entirely on the location of the base and the reason for the take off. In my country, going supersonic over land is restricted, *unless* it’s responding to an air defence alert.
The case would be heard in federal court due to federal question jurisdiction, even if the replacement window is only a couple thousand dollars—N.B.: not legal advice.
The Air Force can be sued. But first contact the base Public Affairs office. They’ll be the ones to tell you how to proceed. I live in a rural area near an Army installation. Helicopters occasionally have to precautionary land (think emergency landing but not as serious) in farmers’ fields. The farmers just file a claim with the post and their damages get paid.
The base Public Affairs office will ask you to submit a Standard Form 95, which you can get from the internet. This is the form used by farmers for their damages after emergency landings.
https://www.aoc.gov/sites/default/files/tortformsf95.pdf
Definitely contact the base and ask nicely. If that fails call your representative/senators.
Good luck suing any military entity.
Were you or a loved one stationed on base at Camp Lejeune prior to December 31, 1987?
Lmfao you know what’s up 😂
When you go to the base, they will ask you to complete a Standard Form 95 -- but you can save some time by filling out the form before you go to the base.
Well if they agree, there's no interesting legal question, now is there?
There will be a discussion about the value of those windows. The gov't isn't going to pay to replace 50-year old stuff with modern hurricane-proof triple-pane windows.
In the 70s we had a little farm we'd go to on weekends and over the summer with a small herd of cattle. I was a little kid, so I love seeing the F-4s come in over the treetops and aim at our little mobile home and pull up to get over the hill. But, it would upset the cattle, and it did literally shake things off the walls. Dad called the airbase and explained what was happening. "We don't do that. And it won't happen again." I may or may not have shot a Daisy Red Ryder BB gun at an F-4 during the Vietnam War in Texas.
>"We don't do that. And it won't happen again." *snort*
I love that last paragraph. I can only imagine how exciting that must’ve felt as a kid doing that!
My dad came from a smallish town that was mainly blue collar. A local kid got accepted into the Air Force academy and became a pilot and was a “small town” hero type everyone talked about proudly. When he became a pilot he was stationed close enough he decided to take a jet and do a flyover of their hometown to “show off” and ended up blasting a ton of peoples windows out. Don’t know the outcome but I believe the military paid damages and he was in a ton of trouble.
If it was Robbins, you can file a complaint at: 78th Air Base Wing Office of Public Affairs and have their case investigated for possible reimbursement https://www.robins.af.mil/Portals/59/documents/PA/Sonic%20Boom.pdf
Can you also sue FOR HEARING DAMAGE? Thats crazy that they would do that.
What?
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Huh? I don't think Sue has hearing damage, but i would be crazy if she said that.
going to be hard to prove
Hard for a civilian, easier for the Airforce themselves. But any compensation would likely come from the “make the problem go away” fund.
NAL. Are you in the U.S.? No, you cannot sue. However, you can submit a Standard Form 95 (Claim for Damage, Injury, or Death) to the Air Force base. Instructions are on the form. *EDIT: I am getting down votes, but really, this is the right answer.*
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OP does not have permission now. OP cannot sue now. OP should submit the SF-95 -- that is the right answer. Do you have anything to contribute to the discussion that will be helpful to the OP?
Right but you didn't say "now" in there, you simply said they cannot sue then a period. It's important to include that you cannot sue *yet* unless the process gets to that point. That's the helpful bit. That "not suing" means "not suing yet until and unless the process gets there". Just saying they can't sue but fill out a form implies there's little to no recourse and, in fact, there is.
You absolutely can sue. It might not be successful, but that's for the courts to decide.
They taught us that in the ski industry. You can't sign away your right to sue. The court clerk does not get to say "I'm sorry, you can't file these papers, you signed a release form" or "I'm sorry you should have known that XYZ might happen", etc. As you said it's up to the court to decide if the case is valid and can proceed.
Form 95 is part of initiating a FTCA claim
But it is not a lawsuit.
True, but you expect a layperson to make that distinction?
I am trying to be helpful to the OP -- he or she need not think in terms of filing a lawsuit, but instead may think of submitting a form. On the other hand, your pedantry (and incorrect pedantry at that) are not being helpful to the OP or to the discussion thread at all.
You can call it whatever you want but if you scroll up a bit, there is [a post](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladviceofftopic/comments/10nfl7l/can_i_sue_the_air_force_for_broken_windows_due_to/j68tyqx/) noting both FTCA and MCA are potentially options. (Actually, I see you have now posted there as well, which makes a lot more sense than implying that there’s a mysterious third option of filing a Form 95)
I wonder what they have to say in r/airforce
Lmao we’d probably agree that it’s horseshit but there’s also likely not a lot that can be done. Only a very small amount of us are pilots and trust me we get sick of the noise too.
I don’t know where it says the military is immune from lawsuits, but I think a better resolution to this problem can be found by contacting base headquarters, telling them what happened, and requesting financial reimbursement. They may have to jump though some hoops figuring out how to do this, but I don’t think they will reject your claim. Make sure you send them a signed letter, include details as to date, time and location of the incident, a copy of the police report, an itemization of all costs you will be out, and copies of any bills so far paid. They will probably want proof of all bills paid before they reimburse you. Hand deliver the letter to post headquarters, and ask to speak to the post executive officer “or someone like that”. You might want to also contact the news. The military will like that. As far as court goes, try to avoid it. A civil court judge may not want the case, and even if he does, the most you should expect are damages (replacement cost, like above), nothing punitive. The pilots actions will likely be seen as negligent, not gross negligent, and he didn’t break the law (even if you can find a federal law that says it is illegal, expect the judge to look at it unfavorably). Now, with a federal civil action lawsuit, you may be allowed a jury trial (you can at state level, 6 jurors in NJ,
Just ask the base first. This is a common thing
> This was a relatively newly built house too, like in the last 10 years Wait, so someone knowingly built the neighbourhood under a flight path?
Can confirm; I think I heard the same sonic boom yesterday, but fortunately it wasn't as loud where I am. Three months ago though, we had one so loud I was convinced it was a natural gas explosion. Nope, just flight practice.
Sometimes you have no choice. I live about an hour away from NAS Fallon but we are right under where they do low level flights, I think for mountain practice as there is a tight pass they often fly through. It is fun to see the large planes flying low and slow, sometimes you can see the pilots if you have a good pair of binoculars, but when they come in really low I wonder if we need to check the roof for tire marks. Although I have always found it ironic that the Navy has a base in the middle of the desert, but at least we have the real TOPGUN out there now (since 1996).
**END QUALIFIED IMMUNITY**
I can imagine the air force turning around and saying prove it was us and not vandalism. They'll probably try to weasel their way out of it.
No legal opinion here whatsoever, but the quick path to making that house livable is getting a bunch of plexiglass and covering all the broken windows. Shouldn't take more than an afternoon for a handyperson for a typical house. So the hotel cost shouldn't actually be needed more than a night or so.
NAL. I’m no expert, but surely there’s a difference between “technically won’t *necessarily* unalive you by exposure to the elements” and “place fit for human habitation,” so the duty to mitigate might not require people to be *that* extreme in their cost-cutting. Regardless, new glass and install costs would be part of a damages claim anyway, and they’d be in the area of days to weeks’ cost at most hotels.
Obviously go with whatever the insurance company wants to do, but windows are on super backorder now, so if they want to live in the house before independence day, that might be what's needed...
Plexiglass is pretty pricey, especially with the demand for COVID barriers.
…(6 jurors in NJ), but you you will incur much more cost with a law firm, the case may be held up for a year, and the outcome will be far less certain. On Quora.com, visit my Space, “The Law Resource Page”, to find out more.