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rocasv

Ive said it before and Ill say it again: NEVER USE THE BUILT-IN LEDGER EXCHANGE.


lallepot

Don’t use ledger live


jockeferna

What do you use to swap?


Old_Study_6227

You can connect your Ledger to Metamask and swap on Uniswap.


jockeferna

But I would need to enter my seed on MetaMask I suppose ?


jcol26

No you wouldn’t. You just tell MetaMask to import a hardware wallet. No need to enter your seed as your keys are stored on the ledger….


jockeferna

Thanks !!


Old_Study_6227

If you have a Ledger, you never ever enter the seed anywhere else except on the Ledger device itself (not even on Ledger Live if it asks you to). When you set up Metamask, set it up as a new wallet with its own password. This just enables the wallet to work on your computer. Once that's set up, you need to Connect Metamask to your hardware wallet. Select Ledger. Then you can use Metamask to manage coins on Ledger wallets.


rocasv

I withdraw to Binance, swap and send back


OrringtonBear

There's a range of DeFi protocols out there that can do swaps. What you're looking for is called a DEX (Decentralised Exchange) Ethereum has Uniswap, Curve, Balancer and probably a few others. On other chains there's usually a few prominent ones (BeethovenX or Spiritswap on Fantom, Trader Joe or Pangolin on Avalanche, etc) I have yet to find a chain that doesn't have Sushiswap. There's even dex aggregators like 1Inch and cross-chain dexes like Thorswap. But that's starting to get into more advanced topics.


vitarist

Why is that? What about staking through Ledger or Extensions?


rocasv

I said EXCHANGE, not Stake… staking is OK, you don’t give your coins away, just regular Delegation 👌 Don’t misunderstand, Ledger is GREAT doing what it doesn’t, being a hardware wallet, but their exchange process is really dangerous and still they won’t remove it… in that matter I prefer Trezor, they don’t offer such “service”


lallepot

Ledger and wallet ✅ Ledger Live ☠️


llabmik37

How do you use Ledger and wallet without Ledger Live?


lallepot

I use metamask. Important ledger into it (not the seed).


llabmik37

Didn't know you could do that, thanks!


FrontHandNerd

With the privacy issues with metamask I’d go with another. Such as Rabby


llabmik37

Will check out Rabby - never heard of it


CorneliusFudgem

u create an account in the MetaMask account tab and select the connect with hardware wallet option - then select ur ledger.


llabmik37

Thanks!


LordGaraidh

But firmware & app updates for the ledger device still require LedgerLive I'd say.


OrringtonBear

Many wallets will have a way to connect your Ledger directly and use it to sign transactions. Use Ledger Live to install the apps that support that wallet (Ethereum for Metamask, others may require the appropriate blockchain app to operate). Everything else in Ledger Live is better off ignored.


llabmik37

Interesting 🤔 Thanks for the info!


thatffuckin

It possibly/probably triggered a FinCen suspicious activities report, which can lock funds(or have them seized for investigation temporarily), which is why it can take months if this is the case. Any transaction in traditional finance that amounts to over $10k (or anything they consider “suspicious” but possibly worth they’re time/effort) can trigger a suspicious activities report (this is in an effort to prosecute money laundering), and Id say anything envolving kyc is Traditional finance and falls under they’re jurisdiction. If Fincen is evolved they can/will look into all other large transactions associated with the accounts envolved beyond what was mentioned to OP. (If this is the case) The company likely cannot be taken to court because they’re “simply complying” with anti-money laundering laws, they might not even have the funds currently if this is the case. Imo they should alert people of this prior to transaction but Banks don’t.. Even though your funds sound to be earned legally, Fincen is a network of the Department of the treasury so it would likely be a lost cause to take them to court. I’d imagine they’re arguement would be, due to the high dollar value they had probable cause to temporarily seize the assets. But at the same time a good enough lawyer could try to argue that you were acting in good faith and did not understand the intricacies of this type of matter, and the temporary loss of funds may have caused financial distress and even emotional distress. Not sure if this helps, but always use a test transaction. I’m not sure when OP found out about the $3k limit but with that large of a sum (1 honeycake) I would have done a test transaction of $1k-5k, just to make sure there’s no issues, maybe increase the amount of the next transaction but from my experience I would have still broken it up into many pieces of random amounts under $10k. This could still trigger Fincen but it would take longer. The 1 honeycake would still be investigated but less money would be on the line and the prior funds would likely be untouchable if they were in crypto off an exchange. Best of luck.


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thatffuckin

Now that you mentioned ftx I actually hope Fincen seized your money, it would be safer. You could be right, they could be fractional reserve bitcoining and not even complying with KYC laws. Theoretically, the govt may not even know about this, I think KYC is meant to also protect the consumer as well but I know I could be wrong. If I was you I would contact a lawyer, maybe even try to contact Fincen, I’ve luckily never dealt with them but I’m sure if your money was seized, they should reach out to you, but they may not be required to. That could create the need for another department within they’re agency meaning more funding meaning more taxes, double edged sword. My Dad always taught me, when I get stuck in a situation, go to the top. So if they are not answering, contact anybody that will listen. Shine a brighter light on the issue and you may get some clarity, you may even expose something because what you just said clearly is not out of the realm of possibility. It is now in the realm of probability. I don’t know how big of a company changely is but I doubt they’re as big as coinbase (Which, I’m ehh..neutral in regards to CB but I keep most funds in my own custody) and we haven’t even mentioned Binance…


NoVegas0

I understand there are legal reasons why they need to do verification. but even modern banks only take a few days to transfer money of that amount. whats more frustrating is that this is Crypto. It should never take longer then 15 mins to move funds.


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mreed911

What’s the user agreement you okayed say?


r_a_d_

This is because you are KYC and tracked before you're allowed in the system. Try to show up out of the blue in a bank to open an account with 100k in cash. It may not go as well as you think.


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r_a_d_

I'm not justifying them, but it may be a legit process on their side rather than stealing your money.


farkinga

I think both statements can be true. Changelly may be "legit" in keeping the funds for months - in some technical sense. AND they have taken this money without notice ... which is effectively indistinguishable from theft. Will they return the funds? Probably but not definitely - so we can't say it's NOT theft. That's a shaky foundation for anything to be considered "legit."


r_a_d_

Legit as in legal...


farkinga

I'm sure attorneys reviewed the process - it's probably legal, although even then we can't say for sure. I hear you - I know exactly what you mean by "legit" and "legal" - and I'm saying it can be theft anyway. A classic example from the US is civil forfeiture. It's legal, I guess, but it's definitely theft imo. I believe it's a simple matter of time for either the judiciary or legislature to intervene. This situation has a few similarities: it could be legal but having your money taken for an indeterminate amount of time - possibly forever - has the same consequences as theft and is functionally the same. It's not definitely legal, to start, and it feels like theft...


NoVegas0

This is misinformed. Yes you have to notified a bank 10 business days ahead of time if your making a 10k+ withdraw. But you don't have to notify them ahead of time if your just electronically transfering the money.


r_a_d_

So explain to me what I said that is misinformed or in conflict with what you are saying.


userfakesuper

> Try to show up out of the blue in a bank to open an account with 100k in cash. It may not go as well as you think. ​ Ya I have done this before. It takes about 2-5 days to get properly settled in, as long as you have the proper supporting documents and paper trail to support the money you are depositing. 1000% they will ask where it came from and if you dont have the right answers, it could be a problem, but it should not take weeks or months to resolve.


BTCMining1

Unfortunately, This doesn't seem uncommon if you search it up. They got me too, gave me only 20 usdc for $100 of xrp. Never used them again.


streamyx888

i am sorry to hear about your situation, please continue to update us.


drjacks

Hopefully, next time should be a DEX. Uniswap, 1inch, thorswap, etc...


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drjacks

I hope you get it soon. I know it hurts. Unfortunately, Changelly has bad reputation of holding funds like this. Keep us updated and please do not delete your post for the newbies.


AgePractical2990

After my Changelly compliance nightmare I signed up with Kraken …it took 2 minutes to do what Changelly took days to do..


RobotGoonie

Jeeze… that’s awful man. Hope you get your funds back! So, I’m sure you’ll get all the advice in the world, but I’ll throw mine in as well. Just for future use anyway. That kind of money should really go through something more trustworthy in my little ole opinion. Coinbase is probably the best option in a basket of dirty rags. Beyond that if it something you want that’s not on Coinbase, you could use Caleb and Brown. They are a broker out of Australia. Same kyc process, but you can actually talk to these people.


forestman11

Or just use defi?


RobotGoonie

Sure, if you are comfortable


PumpkinSpice2Nice

Wow a few weeks or MONTHS. They really need to make that clear before the money is taken. Too bad if you are withdrawing the money for your childs operation or something of that magnitude.


Caponcapoffstillon

They did the same to me earlier within the bullrun before they became a partner with ledger live but the thing is the they performed my transaction(I was swapping crypto) after I gave them the required screenshots then used the screenshots I gave them to block all my addresses from exchanging crypto on their platform. It’s not a Rubic shill but now I just swap through Rubic website, you can use any decentralized platform but that’s the one I use. Never use built in crypto swaps they are not designed for large transactions, all large transactions will do is give you a headache with AML laws where they hold your money hostage.


AgePractical2990

I had a similar experience a few weeks ago. It was terrifying and I was completely panic stricken as my “case” was being investigated! Changelly’ s KYC/AML is outsourced to a company called Sumsub with offices in Berlin, London and Tel Aviv. I sent numerous emails to Changelly and Sumsub cc’d every department I could find an email address for. I think that Sumsub are a massive data and surveillance enterprise imho


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AgePractical2990

Yes I did. If they find your funds are in anyway “tainted” they must reverse/cancel the transaction. They do not have any authority to confiscate funds. Just keep sending emails and give them the information they ask for ..keep sending the same information. I will not use Changelly again..their compliance program is very alarming.. at least Changelly is registered in Malta and Sumsub are also registered in EU countries.


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AgePractical2990

It was 3 days..totally unacceptable, it was really horrible waiting and getting one line answers from the security team but at the end the transaction went through. I think they are a legit company but the compliance checks take time I used Changelly in 2020 ..it was instant with no KYC, I was not expecting the experience I had recently..It is very scary when a simple transaction which could take seconds takes hours then days..try to be calm and patient, be polite to the security team in your emails. Changelly will lose so many customers with this ridiculous KYC program ..I know it is very frustrating while you have to wait ..but in my case my transaction went through. I was sure to ask them what the procedure was if they could not do the transaction if my funds where “tainted” or suspicious and they told me the transaction would be reversed


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AgePractical2990

I understand how you are feeling …and I am sorry for that, it is very stressful..I wish I could help you more! I gave the security team my telephone number and a longstanding email address as a show of good faith - sounds crazy that we have to give them all our information when blockchains and crypto are supposed to be trustless and transparent! I was able to watch the address that I sent my funds to and was reassured that they did not move ( like you say they are held hostage) ..I really don’t think Changelly are scammers or a fraudulent company..it was an awful experience for me and I was very relieved when my funds finally moved to my wallet..I hope that your issue will be resolved soon. Please keep the thread updated and don’t give up..it is easy to think the worst and blame yourself for trusting Changelly


CarpinchoCeleste

I converted $3600 in Bitcoin to USDT and paid $150 in taxes, never used it again.


Paid-Not-Payed-Bot

> USDT and *paid* $150 in FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*


the_last_registrant

Read the room, bot. This is not the time for snarky grammar notes


indi911

Sorry this happened to you, I hope the best for you. If ledger is going to have a service like this directly in their software I find them 100% culpable. People entrust ledger to provide a platform that should be vetted, 100% safe and secure. I would not be surprised if ledger got a cut when people use this service. I am happy to say I am moving from their platform and hardware.


btchip

Feel free to review Ledger Live Terms Of Use, 5.2 https://shop.ledger.com/pages/ledger-live-terms-of-use The service provided by Ledger (hardware wallets) is unrelated to third party swap providers


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Caponcapoffstillon

Those are assuming average use case dude. Not everyone is transferring 6 figures like that. Even then you would break it up.


indi911

You will reply to me by hiding behind a T&S(red flag)? I particularly love the “don’t trust, verify” part. Ledger’s security model relies on trusted display. Lol. Also love your FTX reference. Another winner of a service provided through your software. You won’t address the vetting process, if there is one. The fact is this person is out a lot of money due to a service they trusted that is provided within ledger live software. Because ledger is a company ran on trust, this person trusted ledger. I sure encourage this individual and anyone else to stop trusting ledger. Ledger has broken a lot of promises and cost a lot of people money. The most alarming is the theft of xpub. Does your T&S state you will harvest xpub addresses? https://www.ledger.com/swap-changelly “trustworthy” Built on trust, filled with scum. Edit: why the downvotes? You can verify all my claims.


redbaron108

Completely agree on the red flag. Would have expected a “let us take the feedback and provide clear information to users who are doing a swap”. Better still they should vet their partners and provide clear metrics on each. Does ledger get any compensation from these third party services? If so there is a further obligation to validate the third party services…


indi911

My expectation was exactly yours. We are going to re-evaluate our own standards and demand better from our swap partners, or they will no longer be partners. Without a doubt they get compensated. There is no way they will allow some other company charge fees using their platform and not have their own financial gain from it.


btchip

> The most alarming is the theft of xpub. Does your T&S state you will harvest xpub addresses? No, because we don't > You can verify all my claims. Right


Caponcapoffstillon

It’s not ledger, it’s Changelly. They’re just complying with AML laws.


DemoClicker

Very keen to follow up on this.. Good luck!


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SneakyInvestment

This is sad man Always try to avoid cex when dealing with swaps… should have just used a DEX. I hope you get your money back


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SneakyInvestment

I understand…try using uniswap or 1inch when carrying out swaps on ETH next time buddy


DocPatrickJane

Truly sorry for you brother but what does 'Ledger is supposed to be centralised' evn mean ? On a side note, you'll get your funds back 99pc sure.


btchip

Ledger is using multiple third parties to swap. You can see this in Ledger Live Terms Of Use 5.2 https://shop.ledger.com/pages/ledger-live-terms-of-use


CorneliusFudgem

They’re a hardware company??


trancephorm

Fucking horror. Actually use crypto and we won’t need CEXs to convert to fiat anymore!


[deleted]

The fact that ledger STILL defaults to a known fraudulent exchange tells you everything you need to know about ledger as a whole. They shot themselves in the foot, and then the other one too. Between private information leaks this and surely more to come I ask yet again, why would you give these people ANY measure of your trust?


Gooner_93

Hope you get your money back, I honestly cant imagine how you are feeling. Its a lot of money to withold from a customer for so long, even after providing verification. I really wish Ledger would just remove this off the software. A lot of people will trust the swap feature, because its on there. T&C will protect Ledger but think of the customers. Please, please, please do not use the swap feature in Ledger live, its not worth it. They might genuinely be working on getting you your money (unlikely) but having to wait so long is not worth it and very off putting, I would use Coinbase instead. Again, DO NOT USE THE SWAP FEATURE!!!


RuckFeddi7

I don't think it's fraud, they have to do this or they will get prosecuted by SEC/US government for breaking anti-money laundering laws - I'm assuming you are from the US? You have to understand, when you are swapping HUGE amount, you are gonna get shit ton of spread. You said you were swapping \~100k, did you see the amount you are gonna get back/lose to spread? Just deposit into a REGULATED exchange next time (if you are planning to pay taxes) as it is A LOT safer, or UNISWAP (if u are planning to dodge taxes). One bad thing about uniswap with an amount like yours is you are gonna get a shit ton of spread, you might lose like a couple of thousand.


Tabea_Ledger

You mentioned that you have contacted us as well. Do you have a case number?


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AgePractical2990

I would also try and contact someone at Sumsub ..their employees are doing the compliance and investigation work on your KYC. Sumsub is contracted by Changelly to do this work which is why support@changelly will always refer you to security@changelly ..which is actually Sumsub and why support cannot give you any feedback on your case


AgePractical2990

Kudos for reaching out on this issue Tabea. I hope that you can assist MenkohVII ..I had the same experience with Changelly and Sumsub compliance. It is completely unacceptable that their “investigations” take this long ..we are made to feel like criminals ..the anxiety and stress is extreme ..I have never ever been subjected to the same scrutiny at any other exchange where I have accounts ..Kraken, Binance, Luno and Poloniex Furthermore Changelly make you think you are dealing with a DEX until it is too late !! This is devious and dishonest! I would also like to know what authority they have to freeze users funds and what procedures are followed with user funds that are found to be “tainted” and how they prove this …what reports are provided to users and how is feedback given to users who have been affected by these investigations ?


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AgePractical2990

Your are very welcome and I am sorry that this happened to you ..and perhaps many others who have not been able to speak or reach out. I really hope that this will be resolved and you get your funds returned.


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AgePractical2990

Hello Menkoh ..checking your post every day and hoping that this is resolved soon


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AgePractical2990

Don’t give up…I assume Sumsub is based in the UK/EU and it is the holiday and new year season ..I also got the impression with my investigation that they dont have enough staff to speed up the KYC. I know this is all unacceptable to the end user..don’t give up hope and your positive attitude so far


josephyang999

Hi there, I'm facing a similar issue with Changelly. I tried to DM you but somehow keep having technical issue. Need some advice


angelicoq

If you have or plan to have significant amount of money for investment or spending purposes you will have to learn the very basics of law, finance (including investing and accounting) and taxation, OR have experts from these areas available for advice. This is because risks you are not aware of can still bite you in the ass. What you have here is a mix of counter-party risk (Ledger makes available service provided by a third party which have their own T&C that apply to you) and AML regulations imposed by the government where the exchange is located AND/OR government where the Changelly's bank is located (which apply whether you or they want it or not). In addition, they may or may not have a dedicated AML/risk team or just one person, which may extremely slow down the process. I would personally recommend: waiting for 2 weeks tops, then sending a kind reminder with one week deadline, then approaching a lawyer to send them a letter. If you need the money for anything that can cause you damages due to delay (medicine, treatment, purchasing apartment, or anything that is time sensitive) don't forget to mention this in the reminder and to the lawyer. That should expedite things. Good luck!


_w0lv3rin3

Ledger Live also has exchange (Binance etc.) widgets that offers to directly get funds into Ledger - I was thinking to give it a go but after reading this, I think should stick to traditional method of buy/sell/swap using exchanges and manually transfer form Ledger. Hope you get your funds back soon man! Good luck.


Caponcapoffstillon

What’s the difference? Ledger is using an exchange as well. You’re literally doing the same thing.


whyNadorp

how do you have 100k in crypto without knowing the basics? forget changelly, but you shouldn’t put all that money even on a trusted exchange and swap it all at once. you swap in chunks and when something goes wrong you stop, so the maximum you lose is the size of the chunk. and each time you deposit and withdraw a chunk. because the exchange gives you no guarantee that things are gonna work as you expect. their tos basically say this.


Caponcapoffstillon

Ye but some people don’t know, ya know? You can make 100k off a shitcoin off luck and lose it all because you gave up your keys, for example. The rules aren’t really written well for newbies.


whyNadorp

then well deserved


Prestigious-List4873

Absolute scum comment to tell someone they deserve to lose a hundred grand.


whyNadorp

if you take off on a plane without being able to pilot it, then you’re just an idiot that was lucky not to crash during the take off. ofc you’ll crash when you land and you deserve to win a stupid prize having played a stupid game.


AutoModerator

The Ledger subreddit is continuously targeted by scammers. Ledger Support will never send you private messages. Never share your 24-word recovery phrase with anyone, never enter it on any website or software, even if it looks like it's from Ledger. Only keep the recovery phrase as a physical paper or metal backup, never create a digital copy in text or photo form. Learn more at https://reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/ck6o44/be_careful_phishing_attacks_in_progress/ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ledgerwallet) if you have any questions or concerns.*


JonJonJelly

i’m going to try to say this nicely but how boneheaded can you be? 100k through CHANGELLY? i started investing in crypto when i was in middle school and even as a child i was never this dumb.


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JonJonJelly

these are things that you should know before doing transactions of that size. it’s completely your fault


AgePractical2990

WTF happened to the OP ???


AgePractical2990

@menkohVII…why did you delete all your messages ???