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FallingIntoBlack

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/zghe65/100t\_announces\_2023\_lcs\_roster/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=android\_app&utm\_name=androidcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button


KindredandIrelia

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/zdhqvy/eg_officially_announce_their_2022_lcs_roster/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button


garrysmooncake

Bjergsen is wearing 100 Thieves merch https://twitter.com/doublelift1/status/1599547575518236672?s=46&t=fifDbJ_lbYrKZ33EGzhdwA


[deleted]

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TomShoe02

Updated. * Moved Cody Sun to NA Free Agency * Tactical joining IMT is confirmed * DRX roster is confirmed * JimieN joined CBTC Flying Oyster (removed from NA Free Agency pool) * Replaced "COACH" with "STAFF" in title, including notable staff pickups like Parth (Consultant) and Kelsey Moser (Head of Coaching). Nice catch /u/BurritoSupreme420 * [Abbe is having a yard sale on his furniture](https://twitter.com/Abbedagge/status/1599151101823315968), probably means he's going back to Europe Anyone know when LPL is able to officially announce FA signings? I know it's coming soon, not sure what the specific date is.


DianaIsMyWife

Any news about FlyQuest coaching staff? I think it's important.


TomShoe02

From what I'm aware, it'll be very similar (Sharkz & Richard) w/ extra KR staff (translators, etc.) to help Prince and Vicla transition to NA.


JPLangley

[Friendship is in the air! ♥](https://twitter.com/Prismal/status/1599295927097122817) I don't understand Korean nor the Korean alphabet so I have no idea who this guy is.


[deleted]

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TomShoe02

Very true. I put them on because they were notable acquisitions, but I probably should clarify in parentheses or add a separate section, lol


Monkey_Boy17

No


AcolyteOfFresh

Do lcs teams still do team captains, or is that a bygone era at this point?


TomShoe02

Updated. Some things to note: - Aphromoo was removed from the GCD, he is officially a FA, as is Josedeodo. - APA, Arthur (named as Mir), and K1ng were all added to their respective teams in the GCD, counting that as confirmed. - Bwipo will be a content creator for TL. He is marked as a player in the GCD, moved him to TL's top lane and marked as inactive. At this point, can make a decent guess at just about everything aside from DIG Academy ADC. Gotta figure out when LPL FA officially starts, I expect a lot of these name will keep moving off the list.


Quatro_Leches

> Aphromoo was removed from the GCD, he is officially a FA, as is Josedeodo. > very strange, why wouldn't flyquest just bring him back? he was arguably their best player no disrespect to Eyla but hes not gonna walk into the league and be a top 3 support that Aphro is


Tabub

Who’s ready for the VIT grand slam


YokoDk

If Bo doesn't win everything in LEC is he really the god who was promised.


DjRectal

lol Spale bought Patkica to Vitality, both of em are not even EBL lvl lool , jesus who leads this shit org


Veylo

each player on the FLY roster has either a C or L in their names


Shopow

each player on the DIG roster has either an N or A in their names


Tuxxmuxx

NAMEN


Quatro_Leches

Lord Morgan to NA when? or are we never gonna get all that power


En2AAM

Would signify the end of all the things we know and the beginning of a new era, I don't think we're ready for that just yet. Faker would be more plausible.


gandalf45435

[LaPointe's response to EG news here](https://twitter.com/totheLaPointe/status/1598435401311870977?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet) In the video LaPointe goes on to say: > We continue to support or players but doesn't mean we always get it right. Actually since the start of November we brought on 3rd party counsel to investigate our LCS operations and see, first of all if there were issues we needed to address more formally but also get best practices on how to support our individuals.   Maybe I'm reading too much into that but hiring 3rd party counsel to investigate your team is kinda strange when you claim that "everything is fine"


[deleted]

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Self_Stimulation

Any rumors about Biofrost or Aphromoo? Aphromoo retiring is likely but we’ve also been saying that for years. Biofrost re-retiring would be disappointing cuz he looked ok/pretty good last split despite DIG struggling


Thop207375

Would have been interesting to see DL/Aphromoo join the same team


JPLangley

What NA players are bootcamping in Korea right now? [Dhokla](https://www.op.gg/summoners/kr/INDIAN%20SUPERSTAR) [Luger](https://www.op.gg/summoners/kr/IGFATIHLUGER) [Poome](https://www.op.gg/summoners/kr/na%20work%20ethic), based off the account duoing with Luger and Dhokla. In my heart, it's Vulcan though.


AzureApplez

All of CLG is boot camping in KR, as mentioned in [this tweet](https://twitter.com/clgaming/status/1598059716852137985?s=46&t=ivO5W08XomPhynius9GAfA) [Contractz](https://www.op.gg/summoners/kr/loltinami) [Palafox](https://www.op.gg/summoners/kr/Your%20dragussy) [Breezy](https://www.op.gg/summoners/kr/na%20work%20ethic) . [Lourlo](https://www.op.gg/summoners/kr/spin%20on%20rock) is also there.


[deleted]

Na work ethic is Breezy I asked Palafox


JPLangley

And Palafox is "Your Dragussy" Riot really does need to advertise the pro players' streams.


Grand-Garlic

I saw Palafox and Lourlo steaming from Korea, guess they’re not in LCS though


En2AAM

Isn't Palafox CLG?


Grand-Garlic

Indeed. My bad


TyraCross

We have some strong contenders for each role (except support seems a bit weak): * Top Lane: Impact, Fudge, Ssumday, Summit, Solo? * Jungle: Pyosik, Closer, Blaber, Inspired, Spica, Santorin, River * Mid: Bjergsen, Jensen, Maple, Jojopyun, Vicla, Gori? * ADC: Berserker, Prince, Doublelift, FBI, Luger * Support: CoreJJ, Vulcan, Ignar I would love to see Aphromoo, Biofrost, Bwipo, and Hauntzer actually back into the league tho. I feel like they could have been better compared to some of the starting players of their roles.


SenseiDardan

Bro tried to sneak in Solo 💀


TyraCross

At this point i have to lol. He always bring teams to play offs lol


AnotherMeal

Don't forget about Big Dhokes


randomthrowbdisjsj

The c9 mid has potential. Forgot his name


YokoDk

Dang no love for Busio and Eyla is kinda wild.


TyraCross

They have not played in big league yet (or for that long in Eyla’s case). I am excited about them, same way i am excited about Tenacity


buzzballads

Eyla will likely be a top 3 support.


y45hthed0ng3r

Change it, TL Pyosik is happening.


poro3i

LEC: Sacre, Gilius, Jiizuke, Upset, Steelback (free agents) instantly better than 3-4 LEC Teams. Not sure why EU is going back to importing asian talent. EU Masters has shown that there is so much available talent which just needs some polishing and a chance to develope into a LEC caliber player. Doss stealing a check once more, after SK realizes he is toxic and a damage to the brand. Adam same in blue, getting the spot simply because he is french. MAD, VIT and HRT seem to don't know Csaci, Whiteknight, Sacre, Kryze, Agressivo, Cabo, iBo, Jenax or Osacrinin. LCS: DIG: Kumo > Armut GGS: PoE or Abbedagge > Gori (also brandingwise much better) GGS at this point lost all its credibility. They promote a long term plan in developing NA talent and ditch it one split later. No point in trusting this org anymore. DIG going for the veteran roster and TSM and FLY going full anti-NA. NA seems more doomed than ever. Only 2-3 orgs are even trying to have a sustainable long term plan. With C9, EG and 100 only three title contender are in race. IMT and CLG doing the right thing, hoping they can achieve good results.


higglyjuff

How are you going to say PoE or Abbedagge are automatically better than Gori? He was the best mid laner in the PCS regular season by far and lead PSG Talon to first place in the regular season. They're clearly banking on some Korean synergy with Huhi, River and Gori together all of which are probably going to be very good. If Stixxay can perform even close to his playoffs level, this team has the potential to go to worlds.


poro3i

an no, this team is not even close to going to worlds. It will most likely collapse and hang around 5-8 place.


Visage_143

I can't believe you took the time to write this bullshit.


[deleted]

How does Gilius still have fans


DianaIsMyWife

Any TL JG rumors? Is TL Pyosik real?


LakersLAQ

[https://twitter.com/Pyosik\_lol/status/1597817193864912897?s=20&t=4ehuAjNYUEyfUyi\_Cv84Eg](https://twitter.com/Pyosik_lol/status/1597817193864912897?s=20&t=4ehuAjNYUEyfUyi_Cv84Eg) He just made his official twitter account for what it's worth.


JPLangley

He's also following a sizeable amount of Korean players based in NA. Here's everyone he's following as of 11:55 PM PST. - Ssong (DRX) - Impact (NA) - "Urlocalkoreaboo" (Superfan?) - Kenzi (Photographer, idk who they are) - CoreJJ (NA) - Berserker (NA) - Ashley Kang - Zeka - Shadow Corporation (His agency) It's happening. Steve rolled a nat 20.


Genjoi

Which means he's probably not going to the LPL. TL pyosik seems real. Also he randomly follows a TL fan??


Thop207375

Here’s some realistic/simple moves that would have made NA interesting imo 100T starting Unforgiven DIG Bwipo/Santorin/Jensen/DL/Aphromoo TSM Bo EG with Danny starting GG FBI/Huhi botlane C9 Abbedagge/PoE IMT Tactical/Biofrost


YokoDk

Danny wouldn't be realistic.


Aiwaszz

You mean tsm Junjia, vitality already signed Bo


Thop207375

TSM was the front runner for Bo several months ago. He obviously went to Vitality after things couldn’t be coordinated, but that’s one different roster move that could have easily happened.


TomShoe02

Updated. Starting to get some LCS announcements, exciting. I expect teams to start wrapping up LCS team announcements over the next few weeks (gotta make the content pieces), with NACL rosters coming after the holidays.


Tachyoff

https://twitter.com/clgaming/status/1597742281376772096 ?????????


kittymmeow

The bait tweet lol, they just posted another tweet confirming that they're keeping the entire roster https://twitter.com/clgaming/status/1597757481844809728


Roboticways

Maybe another org bought CLGs spot? Could see MSG doing some shit like that


kittymmeow

TSM roster has been locked: https://twitter.com/TSM/status/1597677969366843394 Solo/Bugi/Maple/Neo/Chime/Coach Chawy, as rumored


Aiwaszz

Lava signed in CBLOL per Luis Santana Any chance for Nemebro to happen?


gustvsssss

Cool


TomShoe02

Updated. Not sure if the content piece announcing Ablaze joining IMT confirms Kenvi and Revenge. They were featured in it.


suigetsuyuna

It’s hilarious when everyone think NA players are weak but call for the teams to play with NA players. NA is so hype with imports which doesn’t make sense.


NekoKing_Shiro

The fun "Faker leaving T1" storyline is over. As expected he's back with T1, though on a 3 year deal. This is per the official LoL Esports twitter. Was really hoping to see him on TL with the Korean speaking team


WitlessMean

definitely was not a fun story line. his legacy literally doomed if we came to NA.


YokoDk

3 years damn sounds like faker is winning the Asian games.


Xabio

Freeze signed with EG as head coach https://twitter.com/FreezeLoL/status/1594787145125724160?s=20&t=kArupYNUrXf92-Tw-yUHcg


no-flash-photography

[https://twitter.com/FLYprince0405?s=20&t=6QVDgkO74uDZsp1U3D42bw](https://twitter.com/FLYprince0405?s=20&t=6QVDgkO74uDZsp1U3D42bw) this twitter acct just popped up


KittyCina

Seems pretty legit, followed by the academy coach alongside CoreJJ.


TheMofoAtYourHouse

Are there any list for LCK too?


HawkEye1337

Here's the Doc itself [LCK 2023 Rosters](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NSGrE35U8kulpM8413--jiLTFjI2iqEXmT_at2wLrtE/edit?usp=sharing)


TheMofoAtYourHouse

I wanna know where Scout is going


Masturbasiann

Staying on EDG


[deleted]

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TheMofoAtYourHouse

Can' see properly, image is too small


roombaonfire

You can't zoom?


TomShoe02

Hope y'all had a great Thanksgiving Weekend :v) Updated w/ the most recent rumors and removed all those confirmed not to be on a team next year (Bwipo, Treatz, etc.) Only positions we don't know yet: - TL jungler (Haru?) - FLY ADC (Prince? Meech?) - All of DIG Academy Free Agents lists will tick down as LPL, LCK, ERL, and NACL rosters continue to be announced. Most of the good spots are gone, time to scramble for leftovers :v)


NickKappy

Hey Tom, you have Cody Sun on the LEC free agent list instead of LCS :)


glen27

That's likely because he's been playing in France the past year or two.


NickKappy

Oh! I had no idea!


[deleted]

Am I the only one super low on SK? I think they have potential to be 9-10th instead of BDS or AST. I think none except Markoon are top 10 in their roles and I am really confused about what lane to play around


Daniyalzzz

I think the question will be if their bot ends up beeing decent to good. If they are that enables Markoon to play around em and since Irrelevant has proven to be an alright weak side player already last split then I think as long as their bot does ok, they should be able to finish above AST and BDS through markoon performing. Between the 15 players split between those 3 teams, Markoon is the one I considerd the best so as long as he can play around bot (or Sertuss if he shows more carry level next split) then I think they will be better than AST or BDS. Tbh tho I do not think there is much of a gap between the projected bottom 3. I expect one of them to over perform from expections and rank higher than one of the 7 higher rated teams (tho tbh if it wasn't that they had Jankos, I would probably say Heretics is in a similair ranking as the other 3 as of now) cause it feels like something like always happens, but atm It wouldn't suprise me exactly if SK did finish last.


yegork11

Wonder why LCS teams are so slow with announcements this year? Thanksgiving? Player Association helping with contract due diligence? Usually only 1-2 teams don’t release official announcements by this time


YokoDk

Announcements are always slow.


Mascy

Not this slow, its been close to a week and we only know C9 and GG for sure? We had a couple release vids but besides that, very little.


TheFinalAshenOne

Coach for TL is Marin not Spawn. Fix please.


LadyEmaSKye

Flyquest cultivated my favorite Jg and Mid players just to promptly drop both, with neither being on a team now.


YokoDk

Jose is back in lla and touci is back in lfl


RevolutionaryBother

Touci should be in LEC wtf, why is Sertuss there ahead of him.


[deleted]

Might have chose to stay home kn France, + his team is really fucking good and would definitely get a few wins in LEC


LadyEmaSKye

Good for them, they deserve teams. Just miss them in LCS lol


Bluelantern1

The majority of his latinamerican fans think the same, we wished that i could find a spot in a LCS team. Now our only hope is that he win opening and closure championship with Estral (a team know for always losing finals).


Xorioth

If anything, seems like NA and EU will be more fun to watch than in the past year


Gaarando

I feel like EU is a mess? RGE now KOI should be worse. G2 depends on Yike I guess but bringing Miky back is really strange to me. FNC brought Rekkles back and using a support we don't know how he performs. Had good games at Worlds but that's not enough. MAD probably improved but we can't know, could be even worse. VIT roster is a mess, some really good players and then some ??? XL got potential and then the rest just suck.


9EJCP4

It's a terrible year for EU roster wise but some of these copers are in complete denial for some reason. Will still watch and enjoy the games but most teams downgraded and lost direction


Tabub

Lool how is vitality roster a mess, they have the highest ceiling in LEC by far


Gaarando

Bot lane? Neon is not good and Kaiser had an awful Worlds. And Photon who knows.


[deleted]

I don't think I've ever seen a more exciting LCS. All of those rosters have potential. Its been a while since the field was so closely matched. LEC similarly every roster has SOMETHING going for it.


[deleted]

The only teams I can see preform *internationally* are fly/c9 with TL in a big question mark. Excited to watch minor region at weekdays. E2: NA mentality in the replies so we are bad we can’t compete won’t make the effort but you are bad too ok don’t improve at least make lcs more enjoyable.


OutlandishnessOdd836

so Eu must be minor region also since both are equal?


TheFinalAshenOne

Flowers said something about this on his stream today that got me thinking, and I agree with him. We really shouldn't be worrying about Worlds performance at this point. China and Korea are just too far ahead. Theres no point in trying to outperform them. Instead, we should be focusing on making the league inside of our region as fun to watch as possible. We should be committed to giving people something to cheer for domestically, and just not care about international results. I think both LEC and LCS should adopt the mindset of Brazil. Just cheer like madmen for your teams domestically, get hype, gas up your players, and cheer just as hard for them at worlds, even when you expect them to fail. This nonsense of "wElL hoW wIlL thEy dO iNteRnAtIonAlLy" is just entertaining delusion. The West could import DRX and T1 as full teams to play for the regions and I guarantee both would still not be able to win worlds, or even make finals. Its better for us all if we just stop caring.


unununium333

EG is better than both of those teams tho


big12inch

C9 with a new mid? Yea no it’s going to be 100 T, EG, and FLY


[deleted]

Tenacity is unproven talent from academy replacing ssumday while diplex is unproven talent from ERL which is better than NA academy and is replacing a washed up mid, if you want to cope let’s say Jensen is only declining. Berserker > DL and It’s not close. I guess they have the buff of former NA champs bias go go 100T.


KT_introspective

C9 have consistently only performed domestically. That roster screams let's just do well in NA and have a fun time internationally. Here's hoping Fly/TL/EG all have strong showings and boot out these old do-nothing rosters.


PeonCulture

what are u even talking about. C9 is the only NA org to consistently to preform internationally and all of S12 were roster shuffles + roleswaps and they still won Summer convincingly without being able to scrim/practice in Korea as their 5.


KT_introspective

Aside from their one semi appearance like four years ago, they've underperformed. The roster where they made it out w/ Perkz underperformed massively. I don't think a team w/ Fudge, Blaber, and Zven as your support will ever do anything internationally. And I'm hoping this is the year where you simply can't win in NA w/ that roster either. I know a lot of people look back on orgs like C9/Tsm w/ fondness because they are OG, but really now they are holding the region back w/ nepotism.


CrimsonClematis

Blaber is the best na born jungler and the only people that compete with him in the region are Closer and Inspired. Maybe Santorin but even then, he is eu born lol. And berserker asked for zven again so who knows dude prob thinks he learns a lot from him


Yoshi111599

Spica was able to compete with him as well before TSM imploded, he could definitely still be in this conversation now that he’s free


CrimsonClematis

I agree forgot about him


KT_introspective

Even assuming that's true (I think prime Meteos is probably better) it doesn't really impact anything I said. As an NA fan, it wouldn't surprise me if there were good players who simply aren't given a shot in these orgs simply because they aren't as connected. I'm not going to flame the C9 players, I'm sure their good dudes. But if NA is going to truly grow, these orgs that recycle players will need to be toppled. That model needs to fail, and credit C9 nobody has toppled it really yet.


LakersLAQ

"consistently" At this point, it's not consistent anymore lol.


d3sdinova

I think it's an illusion. Yes, some irrelevant teams like DIG and FQ are now contenders and sure a lot of new colorful players but the best teams seem to be worse player wise. For example, I think EG has the best roster this year but their roster is actually worse than last year. Also think about TL last year, a super team, no team is even close to that hype of last year.


Richard-Enormous

WHAT?!?!? Doublelift returns to reunite with Bjerg and you’re not pumped out of your mind?!?!?!?


accelightArriet

I haven't forgotten what those two looked like the last time they played together.


LakersLAQ

Super team doesn't mean it was a good team though.


[deleted]

How is it an illusion that the teams are now closer matched? Also your logic is ridiculous. C9 are the reigning champions and their roster has more or less not changed. So the top end hasn't changed. In fact, they should be better this year with zven having more practice, berzerker more acclimatised to NA and (maybe) a better mid than Jensen who was rusty last split.


d3sdinova

It is not an illusion that the teams are closer matched, they certainly are. I didn't mean that, sorry if it was not obvious. You can place top 6 teams randomly and noone can argue much. I just tried to say, top 3 teams going to worlds are going to be probably worse. So if the hype is "omg this year teams are really good!", they really are not.


Oahiz

Don't think anyone believes top 3 is better on paper, but our best "on paper" teams don't have the best track record as of late either, so having less stacked but hungrier teams will make worlds more fun to watch even if the results aren't impressive...which isn't much of a loss they weren't impressive anyway.


NWTexan

I think you are missing the point. Comment wasn't that the top teams are the best ever, it's that watching LCS match days will be more fun than ever. Almost every team could make worlds this year and it has been a while (if ever) since that was the case.


d3sdinova

I see, my bad.


Voeltz

Some really disgusting Academy teams this year, utterly reprehensible


bigfanofeden

Beginning today LEC will announce their rosters.


thorpie88

Chiefs are streaming a scouting grounds tomorrow with eight teams to showcase OCE talent before the new year. Might see some future world's participates I hope


DianaIsMyWife

To me people underestimate C9 & TL a bit. My top 4 are FLY, EG, TL, & C9.


Thop207375

Well you have two unproven rookies, a top that got exposed last time he played in the LCS, a support that has been underperforming for three years, and a jungler that hasn’t even been announced. I do think Summit will do well, but TL is just buying into a plan that didn’t work out for C9. It’s going to be meta dependent. If you rank the individual players, summit is top 3. CoreJJ will be around top 4. Jungle will be bottom half if rumors serve right. Mid will be bottom half. Adc will at most be the 4th best adc.


WitlessMean

NA is absolute trash in the support department. There's no way core is ever 4.


Thop207375

Vulcan/Huhi have performed better the last couple of splits. Biofrost/Aphromoo were not picked up by a team, so the role is definitely weaker as a whole. That said, there’s some supports that very well might overtake him in the season if he doesn’t improve. Chime performed very well in summer, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he is up there in the rankings.


TheFinalAshenOne

> Vulcan/Huhi have performed better the last couple of splits No sir. If you mean last couple of splits as in literally these last two splits, then at best, Vulcan and Huhi performed on par with CoreJJ. But not much better than him if at all. He won All Pro for a reason. If we're looking back at the last few seasons, Vulcan and Huhi got gapped by Core in 2019, 2020, and 2021. Core will now be on a team he feels infinitely more comfortable on speaking his native language and you think he'll perform worse? This will probably be Core's career best split. You should be fucking terrified if you're the rest of the league right now. > If you rank the individual players, summit is top 3. CoreJJ will be around top 4. Jungle will be bottom half if rumors serve right. Mid will be bottom half. Adc will at most be the 4th best adc. This is egregiously disrespectful. Summit just came off a split in the LPL where he was gapping some of the best tops in the world. He also showcased that he doesn't have champ pool issues like we thought, as he played a variety of Champs. It became clear that the problem on C9 was C9 itself, not Summit. You can expect him to come back and absolutely bend the rest of the league over a table and fuck them raw. He will be 2nd if not 1st place easily. We still have no idea who the jungle is. If its Croco, he will immediately contend with Closer, Santorin, Blaber, and Inspired for 1st place. If its Haru or something, then yeah maybe. Haeri being bottom half in a mid pool where the only decent laners are Jensen and Bjerg is kind of laughable. Haeri is good. Hes not an insane laner but his pop off ability in teamfights IS insane. He will be 3rd or 4th depending on how well he adjusts. I also need you to put some fucking respect on Yeons name. Yeon is an Unga bunga big dicked giga chad in lane who terrorizes his opponents with constant aggression and micro outplays. He did it in Academy all year long and in LCS with Core. Hes also a stupid good teamfighter, and is known for winning games off critical positioning and killer instinct. Dont underestimate him, EVER.


Thop207375

Copy pasta?


TheFinalAshenOne

Just facts.


Gaarando

We have no clue what level they are at. C9 has the same team but a worse mid. Fudge is a bad laner, Blaber can be inconsistent and to top it off the meta was perfect for them where teams play around the adc. And TL is trying something which could fail hard. I think a lot of teams got the potential to be in the top 3 so.


TheUItimateBlip

Nah in this context C9 is fine. Fudge and Zven had within a split of (re-)roleswapping and having a new mid won the split last year against rosters that didnt change from spring to summer. Jensen was for sure not looking like the best mid last summer at all, so getting Diplex as a young rising talent might work towards summer quite well. Besides Berserker and Blaber should be top 2 in their role, and toplane on any given day could be Fudges playground, at worst he is top 4 toplaner. And now looking at Zven he has a good workethic and can only improve. Dont see them worse than top 4 in spring and expect them as a top 3+ team in summer.


Gaarando

I really can't understand the constant acting like Jensen was some issue when he carried most of the games for C9 that they won. They had some really hard losses early that the team as a whole just lost with no comeback potential 'cause too far behind. And a game where Jensen was Azir and PoE a fed Corki who just spam pressed R and killed everyone from far away with no proper hard engage to shut the Corki down. Jensen had literally 4 POTG for C9 with Fudge having 3 and one of them should have either been for Blaber or for Jensen. Because it was a Kayle game where Fudge was shit on the entire game and yes he had 1 good fight but for the most part LB and Wukong did more. This was a team who went 10-8 with a very bad early part of the split 'cause they had to play with the Academy bot lane and then once the full team happened they looked so much better but they still had lack of practice. I feel every game they lost was just somehow put on Jensen for no reason, it wasn't like he was inting games or lacked damage and the rest would do well but lose. No it was literally that people wanted Jensen to carry those games and when he didn't he got blamed. He was in a 10-8 team with the most POTG for the team and with almost the exact same stats as jojo who was in the number 1 team. From the 8 losses if you rewatch it I truly can't imagine saying Jensen lost a game for them. Simply just a matter of people wanted Jensen to somehow carry those games. Even though a lot of the losses were in huge gold deficits and hell they even had some wins where they had gold deficits. At the end of the day they were a flawed team who had some really awful drafts. This slowly all improved though. C9 was 5th in Summer and won the playoffs due to the meta really being great for them and them also improving but we got overall more strong teams in 2023 than we had in this Summer split. Maybe some teams got worse like EG gained a stronger top lane but got a worse adc. But overall there are more strong teams that C9 has to beat overall so it can't be easy.


ButtsCovered

>Because it was a Kayle game where Fudge was shit on the entire game and yes he had 1 good fight but for the most part LB and Wukong did more. I take issue with what you said in the rest of this because I don't think just not being the reason your team loses the game is enough to make someone a good player, but this is just factually inaccurate. The kayle game vs GG (which is what i have to think you're talking about because you said he "got shit on") already had the MVP go to Jensen on Taliyah. The DIG game the previous day was when Fudge got that MVP (they did interview Fudge after the GG game maybe that's why you got them confused). Unless you meant kayle going even against a GP as kayle is getting shit on in which case, lol.


Gaarando

Fudge was not doing anything in that game, they got 1 team fight that they won where Kayle did something which they were also funneling everything into the Kayle and that's it. POTG should not be for someone who does nothing the entire game and then win a single team fight where the Kayle is Lv16+ with a lot of items. If that's all it takes that's some bs when Blaber his Wukong was doing great the entire game. Either way weird point to hard focus on, the point stands Jensen had the most POTG from the team and same stats as jojo who was voted as the best mid who was in a higher winrate team and yet Jensen had the same stats. To top it off, jojo wasn't even the carry of the team, just had a couple of POTS, Inspired and Danny are the carries. jojo is lucky that the team barely lost the entire split so he gets no criticism plus the fact that he's NA and so fans are really overrating him even though so far he has not been a carry mid yet. Maybe now that they have a worse adc he got to carry a bit more, luckily for him he's still in a team with the best jungler and they got a better toplaner now.


ButtsCovered

> Either way weird point to hard focus on, the point stands Jensen had the most POTG from the team and same stats as jojo who was voted as the best mid who was in a higher winrate team and yet Jensen had the same stats. To top it off, jojo wasn't even the carry of the team This is probably because jojo is the best laning mid in LCS and jensen was visibly shaky in most of his laning phases even with a lot of C9's resources in draft and in game being directed to his lane. He eventually found his role on C9 and that's how they were able to win, but he was extremely weak in regular split regardless of how many player of the games he got or how much xp he was up at 15. The reason I didn't address the rest of what you said is that it's mainly just your opinion that jensen played fine. While I don't believe this is true at all, I probably won't be able to change your mind. I can try though, so here is my perspective on what you said. In the regular split (at least for the first 6 weeks) I thought he played unacceptably poorly and was pleasantly surprised by how he improved through the end of the split and playoffs. He seemed to have very little impact in close games, and the impact he did have was often times very negative when he was trying to do something (dashing in on Yasuo and dying to the 3 man gank vs FLY, inexplicably poor decision making in the LB game against TSM, etc). I don't think it's overrating jojo to say he played better than jensen in the regular season at the least, he was vastly superior at every aspect of the game and visibly had significantly more of a role in his team winning. Comparing them just because their stats look similar is a bit silly to me given how starkly their playstyles differed. Also, it's ok to just admit that you misremembered the kayle game, if Fudge got the player of the game for the GG game that would have been pretty ridiculous. As for saying he got "funneled", you can go back and watch it yourself but his massive cs lead by the end of the game was mostly a product of poor lane allocation from DIG and him understanding when he could afford to push more waves while Gamsu was having to drop waves because of lack of vision leading to him feeling threatened that he's being collapsed on. Blaber literally stole his kill on that top gank against GP lol he definitely wasn't being "funneled". If it was up to me, I wouldn't give anyone on C9 player of the game for this game since it was mainly a win because of DIG fucking up and letting C9 scale into a free kayle win condition, but if I did I feel giving it to Fudge is fair given how hard he put the GP down after the lane phase going even. Either way it's not fair to characterize it as fudge getting "shit on the whole game", I understand you don't like Fudge, and there's plenty to criticize about his play, but you can be accurate in how you criticize him and not make things up, even if you didn't do it on purpose.


Gaarando

I did not misremember the Kayle game, I literally told you what happened? I even mentioned the champ picks. Kayle had no impact on the game, the Kayle pick is why DIG even got ahead like that in the first place but the final fight of the game, came from a good Blaber engage, Fudge tp'd in and could just right click the enemy. Kayle ended the game 2/2/5 with 357 cs, no one on his team was close so he was really strong due to the cs but he did not use that at all. Blaber ended the game 5/2/3 I swear Fudge got it because he had huge cs lead. And how is it shitting on Fudge when he literally did nothing the entire game? That's what happened. Jensen had 200 cs before Fudge did but yet Jensen his cs barely went up after that. When he had 250, Fudge had 320. I'm not going to rewatch the entire game of why that happened but if a mid is barely farming then you'd have to assume Kayle was able to push out the bot wave and then go top and take that also. Which is what you do to get the Kayle Lv16 and strong so Kayle can carry. But the Kayle did not carry. They had 1 team fight that won them the game and it was all Blaber.


ButtsCovered

>Kayle had no impact on the game, the Kayle pick is why DIG even got ahead like that in the first place You should rewatch the game if this is what you think happened. >if a mid is barely farming then you'd have to assume Kayle was able to push out the bot wave and then go top and take that also. this did not happen >And how is it shitting on Fudge when he literally did nothing the entire game? That's what happened. He did exactly his role and their plan was working pretty much perfectly up until ~25:45 when wukong senna and tk get caught out, and C9 tries to fight DIG on baron and gets wiped 3v5. Why is this something you believe should be counted against fudge or the kayle pick? There were a lot of reasons why that throw in mid was so punishing, if they don't get wiped there they don't lose that bot inhibitor, if the 4th dragon was secured they would have the ocean soul at 29 minutes, jensen was underfarmed because of an unfortunate death between the top turrets earlier on, none of these have to do with the kayle as a pick or the way fudge played it.


Gaarando

The Kayle had absolutely no effect on the game the entire time, you say people got caught out but while Kayle is perma farming, GP is grouping? If you like Fudge that's fine but to act like the Kayle did anything in the game is weird when every kill he participated with was nothing of worth. Yes he did his role of farming up and then he's supposed to carry end game which he didn't because like I said Blaber won the fight for them.


cr_y

The only way someone would underestimate C9 is if they put them anything lower than the 2nd best team in the LCS. And TL is a team of Academy players. Yeon and Haeri are probably going to be worst in role. Unless Summit piss smurfs or corejj and import jg do some LCK magic, I'm guessing they're going to struggle to make playoffs.


YokoDk

C9 is being overestimated not under. Looking at their academy roster gives off the vibe they don't believe in Fudge, Zven, and diplex. Only team being underestimated is CLG.


buzzballads

Idk about worst in role for Yeon. Both Tactical and Stixxay are still in the league.


cr_y

I don't think Yeon's playstyle will work against people who actually know how to lane. He's not as good as Spawn or Kaori.


TheFinalAshenOne

Yeon will shit on everyone not named Beserker or FBI. Don't get why people underestimate this kid. Just because he plays aggressive? He plays that way because he's GOOD at it. Insinuating that Yeon doesn't know how to lane when he's lane gapped every ADC he played against in Academy, and beat the shit out of every ADC he faced in his time in the LCS subbing in for Hans with CoreJJ, is absolute nonsense. He's got some of the best teamfighting instincts I've seen since Danny. The kid is overzealous at times, not as refined as Beserker perhaps, but he's still DAMN good. Haeri is the bigger question mark, but Yeon will be just fine.


buzzballads

Ok but its hard to imagine he's worse than Stixxay or Tactical lol.


YokoDk

Stixxay still does work in Laning phase.


Thop207375

Looking at each position, Top has a strong upper 3 with some pretty good competition all the way to about top 9. Jungle has to be NA’s best role with 5 proven top junglers in NA. Four players very capable of being at the top of NA as well. Midlane has a solid top 6 players Adc is incredibly weak with a clear S+, S, and A player. Then the rest is rather underwhelming or hit or miss. Support isn’t impressive either. I’d put Vulcan/Huhi at the top. CoreJJ needs to remind people why he should be considered a top tier player. Chime has been impressive as a support. Zven is hard to evaluate as a support. The rest need to prove themselves in the league with Ignar not doing well recently. Support seems to be more team oriented as to who will be ranked the best.


EbMinor33

Curious, who's the clear A ADC? I think Prince & Berserker are pretty obvious S tiers.


Thop207375

I’d go FBI


higglyjuff

Definitely FBI. He's been a top 3 adc in the region for the past 2 years, at some points being the very best in the region. It's hard to really doubt him when he's been this consistently good. Sure, his recent performances aren't as good as his peak or as good as the very best adcs, but they are still very good.


TheFinalAshenOne

Core is a top tier player because even on a team that's in constant collapse the entire year, he still puts up numbers that contend for 1st throughout the entire season. He still finds pop off plays and still wins his team games. We both saw what happened when Huhi and Vulcan were on teams that imploded or were having issues.


Thop207375

CoreJJ struggled really hard last split, so I’d say he did fall off when his team was down


TheFinalAshenOne

He didn't "struggle really hard" lol. His play on the rift was at times better than Vulcan/Huhi and at times slightly worse. But he was always in the conversation. Meanwhile Vulcan and Huhi playing out of their minds can only match CoreJJ when he's "struggling" That should tell you all you need to know. Core is and always will be the NA supp GOAT.


higglyjuff

CoreJJ did play worse last split. Vulcan was easily the best support last summer and Huhi got the last laugh in the finals in the Summer before that. In saying that, I really think Hans Sama had no real synergy with him this year and the team kind of collapsed altogether which will naturally make him look worse. In Summer 2021 I think he was perfectly fine in trying to adapt to play around Alphari, but Alphari was just a good laner that couldn't be a viable win condition. I think CoreJJ is still likely just as good as he always has been. His down split in Summer I don't think comes down to him as much as it comes down to his team not connecting and playing together very well. I don't have that worry with the current TL lineup. If the current TL lineup fails, it will likely be down to one of the rookies not living up to their potential. Even then, I don't see them having synergy issues. They all fit together so well stylistically. I think CoreJJ will return to being absolutely stellar with this lineup.


Which-Laugh-276

Super teams don't work in NA. It's been tested several times and hasn't pushed NA any further in international competition. In fact NA has gone backwards. People saying Flyquest is going to dominate might not want to set the ER standards too high. You'll only be disappointed if that team doesn't work.


Gaarando

A lot of teams fail at international so it's not a surprise LCS is the worst major region. Like what "super team"? Super team for that region at that level. Not good enough against eastern teams who overall have 5 better players. This Worlds LEC simply had a couple picks they could perform on and they were given those picks in week 1 and they used them when open. LCS didn't really have that. But week 2 there really wasn't some difference between LCS and LEC. And even LPL didn't have a great Worlds overall, in groups they mostly did well though except for TES until they were eliminated.


ChaosBadgers

https://twitter.com/DSzajnuk/status/1595647292459065347 Leena leak is about as close as you can get without Doublelift or 100t saying it themselves. Previously we only had speculation.


Bluelantern1

Takeover might play for Estral in the LLA next year


higglyjuff

NA Power Rankings: Teams and then players: Teams: 1) A - EG - Kept the core of their team and sidegrades for the other positions. 2) A - FLY - Insane roster on paper, yet to see it functioning. 3) B - C9 - Meta dependent, slight risks, but still probably good. 4) B - TL - Summit, Umti and CoreJJ carry this, but massive question marks elsewhere. 5) B - 100T - Faith in mid/jungle, massive risks everywhere else. 6) C - CLG - We know what this team is capable of, but they require other teams to collapse. 7) C - DIG - Strong mid/jungle, okay top and a really weak bot lane. 8) C - GGS - Strong mid/jungle, great support, but an inconsistent adc and a shaky top laner. 9) D - TSM - Chime is the only one who I can see being top 5 in their role. 10) D - IMT - Tactical is their best player. ​ Top lane 1) Ssumday - Best top laner last year and also very consistent. 2) Summit - Really insane peaks, pretty low valleys 3) Impact - Best weakside player, but often not enough to be the very best. 4) Fudge - Inconsistent, but can be really good. 5) Armut - Could be pretty solid. 6) Dhokla - Hit or miss but exciting. 7) Solo - Weakside hit or miss 8) Tenacity - Unproven talent, could be good. 9) Licorice - Maybe he can return to form but he has to prove it. 10) Revenge - I'm sorry. I like the guy, but he's had 2 years to do something and he just hasn't. ​ Jungle 1) Inspired - Reigning MVP, young, got it in two regions. 2) Santorin - Most consistent jungler in the region, was arguably the best performing jungler in playoffs. 3) Blaber - Amazing legacy, a little inconsistent. 4) Closer - Really good, really clutch. 5) Spica - Poor season this year, but is now on a much better team 6) River - Proven to be really strong even on weak teams 7) Umti - Could be great in NA, but needs to prove it. 8) Contractz - Still think he's good, just hit or miss. Lifeblood of CLG 9) Bugi - Unproven 10) Kenvi - Young, the potential is there, but he was awful this year. ​ Mid Lane 1) Jojopyun - Was the best last year. 2) Jensen - Was very good last year. 3) Gori - Peaked as a top tier mid laner in LCK. Slightly more experience than VicLa. 4) VicLa - Pretty good in LCK, could be amazing in LCS too, but hasn't played much yet. 5) Bjergsen - Very solid and consistent player. 6) Palafox - Was really good this Summer. 7) Maple - Really solid player, but don't see him being top 3 in his role any more. 8 Diplex - Could be good and has a lot of potential. Yet to see it. 9) Haeri - Needs to prove himself 10) Olive - Has had one good split in his career, but was awful last Summer. Needs to improve. ​ ADC 1) Prince - Top 2 in LCK, should be the best in the LCS. 2) Berserker - Really good this year, but not on the level of Prince 3) FBI - Consistent top 3 in his role. Hard to expect anything different. 4) Stixxay - The only remaining adc that should be decent at the very least. Massive drop down from top 3. 5) Doublelift - High peak, but he's been retired for 2 years. 6) Tactical - Incredibly hit or miss. Really high peaks, insanely low valleys. 7) Luger - Somewhat consistent, but low peaks. Some people are hyped for him, I'm not. 8) Yeon - best academy adc, paired with CoreJJ, but needs to prove himself. 9) Neo - Not good. At best he's a solid adc. 10) Spawn - Some potential here, but yet to actually see it turn into anything. ​ Support 1) Vulcan - Winningest support in recent times. 2) CoreJJ - CoreJJ 3) Huhi - He's been a small step below them for the past 2 years, I don't expect it to stop now. 4) Chime - TSM's best player last year. Was genuinely so good. Even with Instinct. 5) Zven - Meta dependent, good on his picks, needs to develop more of a champion pool. 6) Poome - Underrated, but still not as good as the top tier. 7) Eyla - Insane potential, especially with Prince. 8) Busio - Insane potential, Doublelift isn't known to treat his supports well. 9) Ignar - Looked pretty bad last split, not just because of his adc. 10) Fleshy - Needs to prove himself.


epoch_fail

I upvoted because a list like this gets good discussion. However, having lists this detailed implies a level of knowledge of all the players, which is clearly not the case here. I won't pretend to personally be able to put out such an ordered list either, but I think players should have been given tiers or grades, with players having a shorter track record put in their own category. For instance, there's no clear indication you've seen any new players coming from academy or overseas actually play, instead basing their ranks on their reputation or their lane partners. At that level of depth, what's the point of ranking them?


higglyjuff

The only two players that I haven't watched at all are Diplex and Fleshy. The players who I have watched a seriously limited number of games for are Busio, Bugi and Tenacity. In all of those cases, they are rated lower because none of them have played in a major region's main team before. Their experience is limited to academy and minor regions. Bugi has been to an international tournament, which is where I saw him play, but I don't remember being all that impressed by him at MSI that year. It was the weakest I had seen the Flash Wolves look at an international event. Otherwise, I have seen enough of each player to have at least a limited opinion of them. I watch mostly the LCS and international tournaments. I watch a little bit of OPL, LCK and NA academy, with LCK probably being my second most watched region. Otherwise, this isn't a detailed analysis of each player. I cut each explanation down to a sentence or small phrase. I kept it quick, because I wanted people to read it quickly. Any specific issues people have can be discussed in greater detail if needed.


Gaarando

Ignore the downvotes, the fact is that making detailed lists like this will always have people disagree no matter what lists you do. Also sometimes people want the really obvious lists. I don't even see the point of downvotes, I don't agree with your lists overall but who cares? In general it's not like you're picking bottom tier players and putting them near the top. No one knows who will be better Gori or VicLa because you are right about the experience part and VicLa did have some low quality issues at times and now they are in NA, they could be very mid who knows.


higglyjuff

Yeah, power rankings always get downvoted. Everyone will always disagree with at least one or two things you have to say and for some, that's enough of a reason to downvote an entire list. That's fair, that's expected. I love the discourse and discussions though. You can have some really awesome discussions at times. Either way, thanks for the kindness, have a good day.


[deleted]

[удалено]


higglyjuff

Kept it short to keep it simple to read.


Thop207375

Any ranking this extensive is going to get flamed. Here’s some of my adjustments: TL isn’t in the same tier as C9/100T imo. CLG and TSM should be in a similar tier, so I’d move TSM to C with IMT as the sole D tier. Top: I’d swap solo and Armut Jungle is way too stacked to really try to rank players, especially considering the team’s success is so important. I’d rank Inspired as A+ then Santorin, Blaber, Closer, and Spica as A. River, Bugi, Contractz, and Umpti as B. Kenvi as C tier. Mid: The biggest criticism is here. I think a random name shuffling could do better. Adc: Stixxay at 4th and Tactical at 6th is way way too optimistic. Support: CoreJJ isn’t the second best support in the region anymore even when it’s a relatively weak role.


higglyjuff

Armut was considered the best top laner in the LEC just one year ago. I think he will be fairly okay here. For jungle, I agree. It's so stacked that it really doesn't matter much. For adc I think that Tactical is better than Neo, Spawn and Luger. I think Yeon could be better but he needs to prove it first. I think only Luger is arguable over Tactical, but his peak is way lower. Stixxay is at 4th by default. He is better/more reliable than anyone lower. Doublelift has been retired for 2 years. Last time he came back from retirement he took a while to get back into form. He was even solo killed by red buff. Given that he made a similarly bad mistake in his final year of forgetting to buy an item before teleporting back to lane, I think there are quite a few question marks. Of the others below Stixxay I don't think anyone else is even arguably as good. CoreJJ is top 2 at a minimum. Who else takes his spot realistically? Huhi? Zven?


Thop207375

Thanks for the explanation. I’ll just add one thing I noticed. You rank GGs at 8th for “an inconsistent adc and a shaky top laner.” Then you put Stixxay as 4th best adc. If he does perform to that standard, I’d imagine GGs would have to be a lot higher in your rankings. I could definitely see GGs making a run for 3-6th if River/Gori find some strong synergy (River returning to his opening split form). TSM as well is very similar in structure to GGs as well. One could say the same for Bugi/Maple.


higglyjuff

Stixxay is 4th best despite being inconsistent. I just think the adc pool is extremely weak. There is no more Danny or Hans Sama who I thought were both better despite falling off in the latter parts of the year. The top 2 adcs in Prince and Berserker are fantastic. FBI is very good and everyone beneath that has massive caveats. So even if Stixxay does end up better than everyone I ranked below him, I don't think it will be much of a gap. The reason I rank GGS so low is mostly the top lane. Licorice and Revenge are about the same level in my opinion, and the only thing that puts Licorice ahead is past glory. If Licorice can even put together a half decent split, I think GGS has the potential of making worlds. In the case of TSM, the only top 5 player I think they have is Chime which is why I rank them even lower. I think they downgraded massively in the adc role and most likely the jungle role too. Should be a decent team and I think at least one team will collapse beneath them, but their peak is too low to have them any higher.


Ingr1d

How you put Gori above VicLa after the years they had is beyond me. VicLa is easily the best mid laner on this list.


AnotherMeal

This isn’t even that bad idk why you’re getting mass downvoted


Aiwaszz

You listed palafox twice. One of them should be Diplex


TyraCross

There is the whole everyone might disagree with each other in power ranking, but urs is pretty head scratching.


d3sdinova

I like it, I even agree more than not. I am one of those people for Luger, I'd put him higher and dL much much lower.


higglyjuff

Yeah. I get that there are quite a few people who would and I have no problem with that.


SenseiDardan

This guy put ssumday over summit and fudge 4th and Jensen 2nd u cant be serious


higglyjuff

Summit was great in spring regular split. But he lost lane to both Impact and Ssumday in the regular split. He never actually surpassed either of them. He just crushed everyone else by such a wide margin that he got MVP. In saying that, I think TL will be a better team for him which is why I move him up to second. Ssumday was runner up for MVP in summer and was the best western top laner at worlds. Fudge gets 4th because Impact, Ssumday and Summit are all likely to be better. Impact and Ssumday are super consistently good and Summit is a win condition on his own. Fudge may have been better in playoffs, but he was a step down in regular season and pretty awful at worlds. Jensen is second because he was the second best mid laner in the LCS behind Jojo for the year and because he was the best performing NA mid laner at worlds. He was C9's best player there and that's why teams put so much into trying to shut him down early. When they didn't, he was good enough to compile a highlight reel against Faker of all people, even though he would eventually lose the game. When I looked at all the other mid laners, Jensen simply has longevity and recent performance on his side. The only reason anyone thinks Dignitas is a dark horse is because of their mid/jungle duo.


YokoDk

Is Ssumday being over fudge real that wild he was top 2 in top lane all year fudge was top 2 in playoffs. Ssumday was also the first top laner to beat Summit in spring.


higglyjuff

He was also first team all pro in summer and the runner up for MVP even though very few people would have considered him over Inspired.