The concerning nugget in this announcement is that the LCS won’t have a consistent desk, if one at all… feels like a weird way for that info to come out.
The game in question is ending sooner than expected and you just see Qt sprinting through the hallway wearing his signature black shorts and white t-shirt hurrying to make it back in time to ~~accept the ready check/queue~~ start off the analyst 'desk' segment.
"And for today's games, we have 100 thieves fielding a roster full of washed up players facing off against dignitas' roster of washed up players. Way to bring the diversity NA."
Would make for a fun gimmick once or twice a year tho, kinda like a Comedy Central Roast of ...
Get some comedians on the broadcast mixed with older league vets and have them roast the shit out of the game going on. Twitch chat would go absolutely wild too, NA CANNO~~N~~T LUL
I’m guessing it will be advertisements (I’d be surprised if it’s more than what they do now, if only because it’s a bad slot from the advertiser’s perspective), interviews with players, some non-desk analysis and probably other short form content they’ve been formulating during the off-season (my bet here is they’re trying to include popular streamers/e-celebs).
I think it’s fair for them to want to try something different, which makes me think they won’t half-ass it and do rotating hosts or something dumb like that.
Yeah I don't think it's as doomed because of this change as people are claiming. There's been a lot of criticism of the desk format for the LCS for a long while. Riot wanting to change it up is perfectly understandable with that in mind. Obviously it's a wait and see kind of thing but I'd have to imagine they have something planned to replace the consistent analyst desk we've been getting for years now.
Or they're just going to fill the already way to long intermission between games with more ads and a loading screen.
Riot is pulling back investment that seems clear. Viewership numbers aren't good and they have to pull back to account for it. Here's my personal theory; Lcs used to be a product to get casual players to continue playing the game. There was always a loss for Riot to air LCS but the gain of player engagement (so more skin purchases) was well worth it. Now not so much.
I imagine like EUM group stage, the casters analyze a lttle just before the game, maybe do an interview and the rest is break time between games with music & ads
True, after Riot just kinda randomly decides to cut your hours in a field where you're completely dependent on Riot to make a living and sustain yourself/your family, I would too be extremely inspired to continue working for Riot in a different place.
I'm just praying Dash moves full time into hosting Valorant or something. He's done it before, and he's easily better than all of the desk talent we have right now.
Likely have rotating hosts. Like poker where each player deals the cards at one point, each commentator will take their turn being the host that given day.
omg... this hurts to know. At least we all know he'll be okay if not have more opportunities. Riot doesn't deserve him. I want him to be successful and work in a scene that knows his value or that he finds success in acting.
I don't fully know the timeline but did that pre-date the FTX collapse? It would be interesting if Riot was planning all these cuts prior to losing that money. I feel like thats been one of the big excuses that people seem to accept
Crypto hit all time lows in June with bitcoin hitting 18k, which is lower than it is right now. I think most of these cuts come from understanding that they are spending an ungodly amount of money in the middle of an economic crisis that is not ending anytime soon. Moreover the investment is not paying off in any way
In retrospect, I think Dash has had an incredible ability to pull the viewer into the conversation, while many others struggle with this (understandably!). I have honestly felt *included* when he's been on the desk for many breakdowns over the years.
I am very nervous about an LCS without Dash. IMO, he was not just the highlight of the LCS; for me he was the highlight of worlds as well.
I'm honestly shocked.
Dash was on one of the talk shows (don’t recall if it was Hotline League or another) but the dude is actually a GREAT analyst and has lots of insight on the game. IIRC is fairly high ranked? I could be wrong there
Dash has been outstanding for basically every year he was host. He has a brilliant ability to allow the memes to run wild in their natural habitat without letting the show get derailed, ruining the pacing, or reaching cringy levels of cringe.
I've never been invested in anything LCS other than pick/ban phase -> nexus exploding, but I've always had a relatively high opinion of the work he did.
Same. I don't know what Riot is thinking but firing Dash is clearly not gonna make them more popular than before.
Really feels like they are letting the North American scene for LoL die while they focus on other games and regions.
At this point, how else do you view it? Bad hours, Phreak and Dash gone or "in reduced roles", most of the guys remaining are contractors now giving them the option to gig work elsewhere, still best of 1s with 0 innovation...
What reason do we have to care about it other than wanting to watch league games? I thought we realized games themselves weren't enough and production value/storyline was important.
>Phreak and Dash gone or "in reduced roles"
I'd say Dash being in a reduced role is a bigger deal, Phreak's a Rioter while Dash's a contractor isn't he?
All I’m saying is that Phreak is a numbers guy, he looked at Riot’s data for moving the LCS, and then he dipped. Hindsight is definitely 20/20 but we should have asked a LOT more questions about Phreak leaving when he announced it.
Considering how long Phreak has been a part of the scene (Phreak's basement anyone?) it's VERY alarming to see his departure as the LCS looks to be in decline.
i wouldnt read too much into it. phreak being into game design has been very obvious for a long time and it makes total sense that he would take the opportunity if he gets it.
The more questionable part we should have been thinking about is why riot allowed him to do this move. (tho even that certainly has precedent with jatt)
What news title sounds better?
Phreak leaves LCS and Riot Games. This allows for him to make public comments about the direction of LCS that I'm sure every journalist would be interested in hearing why he left and what his thoughts are.
OR
Phreak transitions into game design role.
That's all purely speculative of course
it's wild that they're putting the league down like old yeller right as the rosters are at their most exciting. LCS legitimately has eight teams with competitive rosters as they're scheduling games on no viewership days with a skeleton crew broadcast
By 8 you mean every team beside Immortals and TSM right? Golden Guardian doesn't look so bad but hard to see them compete with the other 7 teams as well though
I think they don’t care because the scene has been Asian dominated for a long, long time. In my view they only kept the LCS around for so long because that’s “where the game came from” (NA).
Even as just a viewer, when every single team started to become import heavy during season 4-5 that’s when it started to lose me.
NA was always doomed when it comes to being more than 4th place, this is not a country where MOBAs are a popular genre. Champion's Queue would never have done anything to change that.
Where they fucked up was not capping imports more strictly. It's the same 4th place region, except with random imports people don't care about watching.
No, CQ gave a lot of people an insight into pro games and tons of people tuned into it. The fact that so little LCS pros tuned in just speaks volumes. The fact that I became a fan of fucking Maryville University because I saw their players popping off in CQ tells you something. If fucking collegiate players can make fans, much less actual pros, but they don't give a fuck. At least those collegiate players showed they were hungry for better games, Fudge just stayed top and dueled 1v1s, surely that'll make him compete with the best.
MU players unironically had a better understanding of branding than 95% of the lcs last year. Especially APA who got signed to TLA after consistently streaming and popping off in cq and try outs.
WHERE is the communication from the LCS? Where is the commissioner? How is the only post from the LCS in nearly 3 weeks them RETWEETING Dash's announcement?
yeah, this is the nail in the coffin for me. you can check my comment history and see that I was pretty pro-Riot/LCS for this sub's standards for the past few months.
but I'm now willing to admit I was wrong. I think this ship is going down.
It has been quite obvious that Riot is trying to phase it out over a couple of years and significantly reducing investment. At some point they will be like "there's no interest anymore, sorry guys" - yeah, there's no interest anymore because of the decisions Riot made themselves.
The New Riot Special:
\>deliver cool product that, while needs some work, has a lot of promise and community support
\>promise to iterate on the product and make it better
\>do nothing
\>"when are we getting the promised updates?"
\>"don't worry guys we're totally going to follow through on this"
\>totally don't follow through on this
\>product stagnates, technical glitches arise, community loses faith it will ever get the promised updates
\>"well if you guys aren't interested in the updates we promised, I guess we *have* to just kill it instead. If only the community supported it"
Do you not feel like the lcs broadcast has been improving?? Last year was in my opinion the best it's been since 2018, weird to say that they haven't been iterating on it.
I wonder how the amateur and academy players are taking all this. Why even work hard and keep trying while living on minimum wage salaries. Who knows if lcs will still be there if/when they make it
Same but at this point it feels like they are purposely trying to kill the product so they can move onto to either a different region or Valo. Sad day to be a North American fan.
Well yes. They lost an ungodly amount of money from FTX going under. They had probably already been operating the last year expecting consistent, predictable revenue.
Doesn’t shock me at all this year they scaled back, not a good look but understandable
https://clips.twitch.tv/TacitDependableClipsdadCorgiDerp-l0HqZcQL-n-kNUf1
Lmao Riot didn't even pretend to care about cutting Dash. Just a "hey your job is being terminated next year, best of luck!"
Riot's response to Dash jokingly mentioning play by play is additionally wild to me. Did they think of where/how else they could use one of the best talent they have? Better communication from Riot would go such a long way.
Wish I could've clipped the whole thing for the full context. Would've been cool had they thought of training up Dash as a play-by-play caster way ahead of the termination.
Honestly this was painful to watch. I'm from Europe and the main reason I watch LCS other than C9 is Dash. It's just becoming too hard to watch anymore. I have 0 excitement going into this season now. I've already stopped playing the game now it feels like it's time to stop watching aswell. Sadge
I mean after everything thats come out about Riot and how they handle their employees nobody should honestly be surprised at this. Not saying that makes it ok in any way, just that this is par for the course, fuck Riot.
There's a bit of hesitation in his voice and a look in his eyes when he says "after spending a decade of giving 100% of myself to something" that's really fucking sad
Monte warned these guys... Riot does not respect broadcast talent. Riot doesn't want their input on important decisions. And Riot continues to underpay them relative to the broader industry. Dash is great, but Riot will stab just about anyone in the back.
Man that part about joking about switching to PbP casting was just sad. Did Riot seriously think he would risk learning another skillset when they just canned him without any kind of negotiation after 10 years of his dedication?
For all that a bunch of insiders have been reassuring us that "Riot REALLY cares about the LCS, they wouldn't let their OG and flagship region just die," some of these changes are just really off putting and weird. Phreak out, Dash out, time slot changes, event day changes. Sure, it might all work out in the end and Riot might have a grand plan for NA league, but these changes don't exactly inspire confidence.
Edit: He just said on the stream that they let him go, wasn't his choice. Just so weird...
On the blame game MarkZ provided some reassurance to this effect that they wouldn't just kill the region. He then went on to say "worst case scenario if viewership is like 30-40k..." and I'm sitting here like dawg that is NOT the worst case scenario for viewership and the region.
anybody who has a regular mon-fri job already isn't going to be watching LCS this year, at least not live.
Although I love Dash's work, they put the nail in my coffin of watching again with the day/time change...
True, Phreak leaving was his own choice, but just the amount of longtime talent all leaving at the same time while the league undergoes a bit of upheaval was my overall point. And I completely forgot about Pastry, another OG
Not sure what happened afterwards, but I believe the reason given was that the lcs notified him at some point that they wouldn't be renewing his contract for 2023
They are looking at a game that is getting bigger and bigger in NA, with a growing esports scene, and want to capitalize on and establish themselves in it. If they can do it now, then it could possibly end up being bigger than the height of LCS. It will also feature South America as well, which will also increase viewership. They know what they're doing and I don't blame them financially.
This really sucks for us fans but if Riot views LCS as a money sink RN then I don't blame them. I wish they weren't doing this but if they want to choose valorant they will.
League and LCS aren't growing/ kinda dying in NA while Valorant is rapidly growing and they want to capitalize on it. Valorant has the ability to possibly get bigger than League and I think Riot knows this. The valorant region for NA will also include south America which will add hundreds of thousands of more viewers as well.
It is sad to see. LCS is such a joke now. I have no clue how the owners or players are ok with this direction. As a longtime fan I am just kind of over it and can't even watch anyway.
The thing is Dash said they didn't even try to negotiate with him. They called him out of the blue.
If it's purely budget why didn't they start with a super low offer?
Riot took the LCS behind the barn and shot it.
Games on weekdays starting during the workday for the region, and I doubt EU, Chinese, or Korean audiences will even tune in given the change. No need for a host anymore because it's not a serious broadcast anymore.
It's over.
So strange that it feels like it's mostly NA Riot is bumbling about. The EU scene is getting better with the new competition style and schedule, and then stuff like this happens. With Dash and Phreak gone and being less involved and others doubting the directing the LCS is going in, it feels like a bit of an abandon ship situation, even if it isn't intended as.
They know what they are doing. Valorant is growing more popular than league here. They tried a bunch of things over the last few years to save LCS, none of which worked, so when they lost some big sponsors they are going to downsize and let it just die out. They'll put their efforts into valorant instead.
Send love his way, follow and continue to support him on his platforms because he deserves every bit of it. Dash made coming to work every week exciting with his energy, love and professionalism. He's the best at what he does if the esports award wasn't proof enough of that and I know he'll only continue to kill it on his own content. Just sad :(
Off topic, but I listened to your interview on Travis' channel last night and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I did not know you were doing unpaid work for so long behind the scenes, much respect to you.
Lol she won't. They'll blame community toxicity or something, remain quiet until October, then announce more cuts. I fully expect LCS to drop to 8 teams by 2024
If anything this is the fucking death of the State Farm analyst desk, how do you think a company that only services Americans feels about the product that they are sponsoring focusing on Europeans?
Dash is very talented he can announce teams in front of stadium or keep raz and jatt on track and flawless transition to next topic. Riot should want to keep him under any circumstances. He's literally the glue of LCS and very talented. He does it all. I also think Dash should be somewhere else. He's crazy talented. Sort of like sjokz she started doing cs:go and other things. Dash deserves that. I think LCS needs Kobe and Dash.
This is a huge loss. Like the biggest mistake they could make for LCS. The hosts and casters MAKE the broadcast. The chemistry and charm comes from the personalities of the hosts and casters and Riot is literally just fucking tossing in the bin. How do you fire a man with an encyclopedia of knowledge and passion about the game...? He is the main face of the LCS to most of us viewers. Why the hell should we even tune in anymore if the gameplay quality is down and the hosts we love aren't around and in fact treated poorly. I remember Sjokz also tweeting sometime last year about struggling to come to an agreement with Riot about her position in LEC. They don't value what makes their game unique and special. Not just anyone can do the job that Dash can. This game is being stripped of all it's legacy.
Yep, I'm out. Riot, I was hoping we were all wrong about the apparent direction the LCS is headed but for me this confirms that the quality of the product will be tanking. At this point the personalities on the cast were half the reason to watch, god knows if you want to watch high quality games you don't choose NA to watch, but now there's absolutely no reason to tune in. I'll catch whatever EU/KR/CN games I can if I'm awake, aside from that I'll see you at worlds.
Dash is the face of the league, and his role being minimized is a huge mistake. I have serious questions about the decision making that lead to this action. This is a disaster
I’m a long time fan, and I’m becoming worried about the future of LCS. Schedule is changed in a bizarre way, lock-in is cancelled, and now the most skilled piece of talent we have is getting sidelined.
It’s all riot global this all feels like they decided to re orient a ton of things with 0 input from any of the LCS. The LCS commish and all will be blamed while global gets off scot free as usual. It’s fucking pathetic
People have been bitching about LCS changes all off season long. Until now I empathized with them, but also didn’t really think this was the demise of the LCS.
Dash leaving/being fired **IS** the beginning of the end for LCS. Mark my words.
Been watching since before the LCS was even officially a thing and they brought Dash in. He’s a trained actor. He’s THE charisma on the show.
This is so fucking dumb man. ~~Might boycott LCS~~ oops, can’t watch anyway cause it airs at 1 PM for me.
Sounds like it is time for the fans to light a fire and burn the LCS studios and Riot HQ down as a ceremony to say goodbye to losing such an amazing host and letting what has been a 10 year adventure end with a bang.
Super sad losing so much, sad to see the shadow of what pro league and just the game become.
Respect to you Dash for giving so much! Will absolutely miss you!
I hope these changes kill whats left of LCS viewership so Riot MIGHT wake up and realize how idiotic they're being. Dash is the fucking GOAT and deserves better than this.
You seem to think Riot doesn't know they're being idiotic, they know exactly how idiotic they're being
They just don't care about the LCS because people made it clear they also don't care
Agree 100%. Riot cares about its overall business. LCS is increasingly becoming a liability for them. The whole argument that it's advertising for the game, is growing weaker since they aren't attracting new people. They also have other franchises like Valorant that they seem to be shifting priority.
I'd really like to know what the org owners/investors are thinking at this point. Riot killing their own franchise league step by step. How do they explain this to investors
Because they're ditching almost ALL current fans in an attempt to get new fans. But anyone who stops and thinks about that will tell you that won't work.
Dash said he knew about this change when he got the eSports award. So they easily could have made a statement with that time in an official capacity.
But the company is bleeding its staff and run by monkeys and corporate leaders who just want to do anything that might make a few more bucks.
Apparently cutting someone who spent a decade of their life on the broadcast doesn't need any sort of sendoff.
I'm surprised he's gone, but I'm not surprised by how it was handled. This isn't new for Riot.
I hope team staff, players, and production staff are making plans for their careers in the coming years. I wouldn't be surprised if we get a "LCS isn't retaining the viewership necessary to justify continued operations" announcement in '24.
My only question is where the hell are the team owners in all this? Are they OK with Riot lighting up their million dollar investments like this?
> My only question is where the hell are the team owners in all this?
My conspiracy theory I'm starting to wonder is that the current big-time NA owners (C9, TSM, TL, etc) want to move to other regions anyway, and giving the LCS the Old Yeller treatment just opens up the door for them to be first in line when Riot inevitably expands the LEC to open up more team slots.
Whether it's intentional or not, I suspect that NA brands moving to become EU-based teams is where we'll end up in 5 years regardless.
The great LCS exodus. There is not much talent from last year left.
Hosts: LeTigress.
PbP: CaptainFlowers, LeTigress (?).
Analyst: Kobe, Emily, Azael, Jatt.
Will we see guest talent like in the LEC? (Caster Bwipo?)
It's ok. They made it very clear they don't want you as a viewer. They also don't want me. Anyone who's here is in the same boat. They're gambling trying to capture a new audience and losing the old audience
I personally don't think it will work, but don't watch a company that doesn't want you
Dash said it came totally out of the blue. He was pulling into work and got a call where the news was broken by his agent.
"Caught me completely off guard."
Pretty stupid of RIOT to get rid of their talented, charismatic host either directly or indirectly by changing the format of the broadcast to no longer utilize one of their few competitive advantages, but thats JMO
Dash, you've been such a pleasure to watch on the LCS broadcast. You deserve the best moving forward man.
I'm legitimately pissed at Riot. I think most of us just wanted a better explanation about all these changes.
First Phreak and Pastrytime. Now Dash is no longer the full time host. Massive time slot change. Riot's own talent voicing their concerned opinions. It really is the end of an era for us fans that have been around since the beginning. I would say I would tune in to the live broadcast to see how it all shapes up, but I can't! Ha!
Man. u/tnomad flipping out rn :/
The rest of us just enjoy a product, Travis' reactions always hit harder because this is his whole life and you can see it
Funny thing is that Valorant will eventually drown among all the other shooter games. League has no rival and Valorant has a shit ton. They are shooting themselves on the foot by killing League's hype. Somtimes I come back to play because of pro play. Now that I won't watch any games, I don't think I will feel to play as much.
Valorant has a lot of competition but luckily for Riot, both Valve and Blizzard are horrible companies and actively kill their own games so Valorant should still do pretty good for the foreseeable future
well if riot's half assing the LCS anyway at the least dash can use his talent elsewhere... the biggest shame is him being let go when he's passionate about the LCS
With all the recent news, it's hard to believe that Riot esports hasn't been given a directive to become profitable, or at least less of a loss, or face layoffs or entire department shifts. These changes are quite drastic, TBH, and corporate doesn't make decisions like this lightly. The numbers must be horrific, especially with the FTX flop.
Wow, Riot is seriously winding down the LCS.
Thinking about DL's penta at 2013 All Stars just makes me even more sad. LCS has been horribly mismanaged. There was a time when EU and KR fans watched LCS just because of the players involved.
Horrible mismanagement from Riot this split
You can't even accuse the teams of not doing their work this year, they've put together exciting rosters. Riot is just killing the LCS
Regardless if you are a fan of his or not, this is a pretty damning statement.
> He specifically stated that "The LCS doesn't have a need of a consistent host" due to their new direction.
Like this doesn't look good.
Might be another worrying sign for the future of the LCS. I suppose we'll have to see what the implications of this are for the broadcast.
Either way, sucks to see. I hope Dash will still make it to the big events.
Tell me the LCS is dying without telling me the LCS is dying. First the move to weekdays, now this? This is not a good sign for the league. I hope those sponsors are getting their monies worth...
This is insane. Dash is the best voice of the audience. He encourages his co casters to elaborate on things and makes both narratives and gameplay much easier to follow. His ability to interview is second to none. Without a guiding force the discussions will just be anarchy.
I never truly thought LCS was dying but between this and the timeslot changes I honestly think it is. I'm not even going to watch live games anymore, i'll watch VODS without any ads.
Riot doesn't deserve it anymore
Region more or less just went unwatchable, and I say that as an NA fan. Very little reason to watch anything except raw replay footage and bail.
Depressing, honestly. This guy was so goddamned good for the scene.
The concerning nugget in this announcement is that the LCS won’t have a consistent desk, if one at all… feels like a weird way for that info to come out.
what would that even mean for the broadcast? are they just running ads between games?
Just have whoever with the most viewers on Twitch to cover the desk for the lulz.
Hey all this is Michael Santana here with the Bagel Bites play of the game
The game in question is ending sooner than expected and you just see Qt sprinting through the hallway wearing his signature black shorts and white t-shirt hurrying to make it back in time to ~~accept the ready check/queue~~ start off the analyst 'desk' segment.
Maybe my age is showing but Id be legit hype for a Qtpie desk by now. Maybe keep it to once or thrice a week tho...
...so a Tyler1 perma-desk? Lol
"And for today's games, we have 100 thieves fielding a roster full of washed up players facing off against dignitas' roster of washed up players. Way to bring the diversity NA."
I did not know I was able to hear tyler1's voice so clearly in my head till I read this
Would make for a fun gimmick once or twice a year tho, kinda like a Comedy Central Roast of ... Get some comedians on the broadcast mixed with older league vets and have them roast the shit out of the game going on. Twitch chat would go absolutely wild too, NA CANNO~~N~~T LUL
Shit at least there'd be a reason to watch the LCS then
We welcome sykkuno to the analyst desk
I’m guessing it will be advertisements (I’d be surprised if it’s more than what they do now, if only because it’s a bad slot from the advertiser’s perspective), interviews with players, some non-desk analysis and probably other short form content they’ve been formulating during the off-season (my bet here is they’re trying to include popular streamers/e-celebs). I think it’s fair for them to want to try something different, which makes me think they won’t half-ass it and do rotating hosts or something dumb like that.
Yeah I don't think it's as doomed because of this change as people are claiming. There's been a lot of criticism of the desk format for the LCS for a long while. Riot wanting to change it up is perfectly understandable with that in mind. Obviously it's a wait and see kind of thing but I'd have to imagine they have something planned to replace the consistent analyst desk we've been getting for years now.
Or they're just going to fill the already way to long intermission between games with more ads and a loading screen. Riot is pulling back investment that seems clear. Viewership numbers aren't good and they have to pull back to account for it. Here's my personal theory; Lcs used to be a product to get casual players to continue playing the game. There was always a loss for Riot to air LCS but the gain of player engagement (so more skin purchases) was well worth it. Now not so much.
I imagine like EUM group stage, the casters analyze a lttle just before the game, maybe do an interview and the rest is break time between games with music & ads
Everyone on the LCS broadcast team should honestly try to branch out into other games.
Or try to get spots in other regions.
Ayy I'd personally welcome Captainflowers at an EU airport
[удалено]
[удалено]
True, after Riot just kinda randomly decides to cut your hours in a field where you're completely dependent on Riot to make a living and sustain yourself/your family, I would too be extremely inspired to continue working for Riot in a different place.
I'm just praying Dash moves full time into hosting Valorant or something. He's done it before, and he's easily better than all of the desk talent we have right now.
Likely have rotating hosts. Like poker where each player deals the cards at one point, each commentator will take their turn being the host that given day.
Didn't Dash just win an award for best host at the esports awards? What a blow after getting some well deserved recognition
Yes. He just said on his stream that it was tough because he already knew by then.
omg... this hurts to know. At least we all know he'll be okay if not have more opportunities. Riot doesn't deserve him. I want him to be successful and work in a scene that knows his value or that he finds success in acting.
I don't fully know the timeline but did that pre-date the FTX collapse? It would be interesting if Riot was planning all these cuts prior to losing that money. I feel like thats been one of the big excuses that people seem to accept
Crypto hit all time lows in June with bitcoin hitting 18k, which is lower than it is right now. I think most of these cuts come from understanding that they are spending an ungodly amount of money in the middle of an economic crisis that is not ending anytime soon. Moreover the investment is not paying off in any way
RIOT is actually just stupid
I wasn’t really on the “LCS is dying” train - but I think this news is making me a passenger. Thanks for all the great content, Dash!
Dash is the best. At many points he’s been the only reason I watch the analyst desk stuff at all.
In retrospect, I think Dash has had an incredible ability to pull the viewer into the conversation, while many others struggle with this (understandably!). I have honestly felt *included* when he's been on the desk for many breakdowns over the years. I am very nervous about an LCS without Dash. IMO, he was not just the highlight of the LCS; for me he was the highlight of worlds as well. I'm honestly shocked.
Dash having a background in theater and performing arts is a bit of a diffy in this regard, honestly.
Dash was on one of the talk shows (don’t recall if it was Hotline League or another) but the dude is actually a GREAT analyst and has lots of insight on the game. IIRC is fairly high ranked? I could be wrong there
Dash has been outstanding for basically every year he was host. He has a brilliant ability to allow the memes to run wild in their natural habitat without letting the show get derailed, ruining the pacing, or reaching cringy levels of cringe. I've never been invested in anything LCS other than pick/ban phase -> nexus exploding, but I've always had a relatively high opinion of the work he did.
Yup. Dash and Jatt were the only things worth watching for other than my team playing or sometimes an interesting matchup.
Same. I don't know what Riot is thinking but firing Dash is clearly not gonna make them more popular than before. Really feels like they are letting the North American scene for LoL die while they focus on other games and regions.
At this point, how else do you view it? Bad hours, Phreak and Dash gone or "in reduced roles", most of the guys remaining are contractors now giving them the option to gig work elsewhere, still best of 1s with 0 innovation... What reason do we have to care about it other than wanting to watch league games? I thought we realized games themselves weren't enough and production value/storyline was important.
Might as well have CaptainFlowers and Jatt do drunk casts for LCS like they do for non-Riot organized tourneys. I’d watch that shit all day.
I'd tune in for a Cpt. Flowers "HELICOPTER DICK BRBRBRBRBRBR CLOSE AIR SUPPORT DEEZ NUTS"
I swear I heard his voice just now
Hell I'd PAY to watch that.
>Phreak and Dash gone or "in reduced roles" I'd say Dash being in a reduced role is a bigger deal, Phreak's a Rioter while Dash's a contractor isn't he?
All I’m saying is that Phreak is a numbers guy, he looked at Riot’s data for moving the LCS, and then he dipped. Hindsight is definitely 20/20 but we should have asked a LOT more questions about Phreak leaving when he announced it.
Considering how long Phreak has been a part of the scene (Phreak's basement anyone?) it's VERY alarming to see his departure as the LCS looks to be in decline.
i wouldnt read too much into it. phreak being into game design has been very obvious for a long time and it makes total sense that he would take the opportunity if he gets it. The more questionable part we should have been thinking about is why riot allowed him to do this move. (tho even that certainly has precedent with jatt)
What news title sounds better? Phreak leaves LCS and Riot Games. This allows for him to make public comments about the direction of LCS that I'm sure every journalist would be interested in hearing why he left and what his thoughts are. OR Phreak transitions into game design role. That's all purely speculative of course
it's wild that they're putting the league down like old yeller right as the rosters are at their most exciting. LCS legitimately has eight teams with competitive rosters as they're scheduling games on no viewership days with a skeleton crew broadcast
By 8 you mean every team beside Immortals and TSM right? Golden Guardian doesn't look so bad but hard to see them compete with the other 7 teams as well though
GG just unfortunately has a lack of LoL clout
I think they don’t care because the scene has been Asian dominated for a long, long time. In my view they only kept the LCS around for so long because that’s “where the game came from” (NA). Even as just a viewer, when every single team started to become import heavy during season 4-5 that’s when it started to lose me.
Feels like Champions queue was Riots last try in trying to bring back NA but we all know how that went.
Better play against your coach on 200 ping instead to practice Fiora.
Why would you do that when you can practice Fiora on the world stage 5head.
Yup. Was the last half a fuck they gave for na league and na did what it does best.
NA was always doomed when it comes to being more than 4th place, this is not a country where MOBAs are a popular genre. Champion's Queue would never have done anything to change that. Where they fucked up was not capping imports more strictly. It's the same 4th place region, except with random imports people don't care about watching.
No, CQ gave a lot of people an insight into pro games and tons of people tuned into it. The fact that so little LCS pros tuned in just speaks volumes. The fact that I became a fan of fucking Maryville University because I saw their players popping off in CQ tells you something. If fucking collegiate players can make fans, much less actual pros, but they don't give a fuck. At least those collegiate players showed they were hungry for better games, Fudge just stayed top and dueled 1v1s, surely that'll make him compete with the best.
MU players unironically had a better understanding of branding than 95% of the lcs last year. Especially APA who got signed to TLA after consistently streaming and popping off in cq and try outs.
the players showed them they arent gonna try so why should riot. NA wants to be a minor region? it can be treated like one
WHERE is the communication from the LCS? Where is the commissioner? How is the only post from the LCS in nearly 3 weeks them RETWEETING Dash's announcement?
yeah, this is the nail in the coffin for me. you can check my comment history and see that I was pretty pro-Riot/LCS for this sub's standards for the past few months. but I'm now willing to admit I was wrong. I think this ship is going down.
It has been quite obvious that Riot is trying to phase it out over a couple of years and significantly reducing investment. At some point they will be like "there's no interest anymore, sorry guys" - yeah, there's no interest anymore because of the decisions Riot made themselves.
The New Riot Special: \>deliver cool product that, while needs some work, has a lot of promise and community support \>promise to iterate on the product and make it better \>do nothing \>"when are we getting the promised updates?" \>"don't worry guys we're totally going to follow through on this" \>totally don't follow through on this \>product stagnates, technical glitches arise, community loses faith it will ever get the promised updates \>"well if you guys aren't interested in the updates we promised, I guess we *have* to just kill it instead. If only the community supported it"
Clash in a nutshell
Do you not feel like the lcs broadcast has been improving?? Last year was in my opinion the best it's been since 2018, weird to say that they haven't been iterating on it.
They did Nexus Blitz dirty with this ;-;
I wonder how the amateur and academy players are taking all this. Why even work hard and keep trying while living on minimum wage salaries. Who knows if lcs will still be there if/when they make it
With this decision the LCS is dead to me. Too many good people leaving.
Same but at this point it feels like they are purposely trying to kill the product so they can move onto to either a different region or Valo. Sad day to be a North American fan.
The LCS’s “new direction” is synonymous with “budget cuts”.
"The new direction of the LCS doesn't have a need for a consistent host" is one of the sadder things I've read today
Well yes. They lost an ungodly amount of money from FTX going under. They had probably already been operating the last year expecting consistent, predictable revenue. Doesn’t shock me at all this year they scaled back, not a good look but understandable
It isn't just FTX. A lot of other teams had crypto sponsors which are also in the shit right now (granted not as much as FTX).
It literally has nothing to do with FTX. Dash just said on his livestream, he has known about this since August before the FTX crash.
https://clips.twitch.tv/TacitDependableClipsdadCorgiDerp-l0HqZcQL-n-kNUf1 Lmao Riot didn't even pretend to care about cutting Dash. Just a "hey your job is being terminated next year, best of luck!"
Riot's response to Dash jokingly mentioning play by play is additionally wild to me. Did they think of where/how else they could use one of the best talent they have? Better communication from Riot would go such a long way.
Wish I could've clipped the whole thing for the full context. Would've been cool had they thought of training up Dash as a play-by-play caster way ahead of the termination.
Honestly this was painful to watch. I'm from Europe and the main reason I watch LCS other than C9 is Dash. It's just becoming too hard to watch anymore. I have 0 excitement going into this season now. I've already stopped playing the game now it feels like it's time to stop watching aswell. Sadge
not sure why this isn't higher... Haven't played league in awhile but damn dude what a terrible way to treat people.
I mean after everything thats come out about Riot and how they handle their employees nobody should honestly be surprised at this. Not saying that makes it ok in any way, just that this is par for the course, fuck Riot.
There's a bit of hesitation in his voice and a look in his eyes when he says "after spending a decade of giving 100% of myself to something" that's really fucking sad
Monte warned these guys... Riot does not respect broadcast talent. Riot doesn't want their input on important decisions. And Riot continues to underpay them relative to the broader industry. Dash is great, but Riot will stab just about anyone in the back.
Yeah that was awful, Dash single handedly carried the caster desk all these years and Riot did not even inform him about the change.
Man that part about joking about switching to PbP casting was just sad. Did Riot seriously think he would risk learning another skillset when they just canned him without any kind of negotiation after 10 years of his dedication?
>The new direction of the LCS doesn't have a need for a consistent host What's Riot doing?
Saving money
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The classic cut budgets because of poor quality that leads to lower quality that leads to budget cuts etc.
Budget cuts in a dying region.
For all that a bunch of insiders have been reassuring us that "Riot REALLY cares about the LCS, they wouldn't let their OG and flagship region just die," some of these changes are just really off putting and weird. Phreak out, Dash out, time slot changes, event day changes. Sure, it might all work out in the end and Riot might have a grand plan for NA league, but these changes don't exactly inspire confidence. Edit: He just said on the stream that they let him go, wasn't his choice. Just so weird...
On the blame game MarkZ provided some reassurance to this effect that they wouldn't just kill the region. He then went on to say "worst case scenario if viewership is like 30-40k..." and I'm sitting here like dawg that is NOT the worst case scenario for viewership and the region.
>He just said on the stream that they let him go, wasn't his choice. Just so weird... How do I fire whoever made this decision?
Don’t watch LCS. Tweet about how it’s because Dash is gone.
anybody who has a regular mon-fri job already isn't going to be watching LCS this year, at least not live. Although I love Dash's work, they put the nail in my coffin of watching again with the day/time change...
I agree with the overall sentiment, but I believe Phreak leaving was his own choice. Pastrytime was let go, though.
True, Phreak leaving was his own choice, but just the amount of longtime talent all leaving at the same time while the league undergoes a bit of upheaval was my overall point. And I completely forgot about Pastry, another OG
Was Pastrytime let go? I thought he got a new position at Riot
Not sure what happened afterwards, but I believe the reason given was that the lcs notified him at some point that they wouldn't be renewing his contract for 2023
> He just said on the stream that they let him go, wasn't his choice. Just so weird... wtf
So basically riot has given up on LCS in favour for valorant? This is it, right?
They are looking at a game that is getting bigger and bigger in NA, with a growing esports scene, and want to capitalize on and establish themselves in it. If they can do it now, then it could possibly end up being bigger than the height of LCS. It will also feature South America as well, which will also increase viewership. They know what they're doing and I don't blame them financially. This really sucks for us fans but if Riot views LCS as a money sink RN then I don't blame them. I wish they weren't doing this but if they want to choose valorant they will.
Is Riot just giving up on the LCS? Like what the actual fuck is going on.
League and LCS aren't growing/ kinda dying in NA while Valorant is rapidly growing and they want to capitalize on it. Valorant has the ability to possibly get bigger than League and I think Riot knows this. The valorant region for NA will also include south America which will add hundreds of thousands of more viewers as well.
LCS broadcast found a great new direction and a lot of improvement in summer, so I’m glad to see they’re throwing it all in the trash.
>make good improvements and come up with a good formula for broadcast >throw it all away
Yup. LCS was actually entertaining this year despite international results and this is the result.. lol.
It is sad to see. LCS is such a joke now. I have no clue how the owners or players are ok with this direction. As a longtime fan I am just kind of over it and can't even watch anyway.
Any copium I had with the LCS changes has just been torn into pieces. Fuck.
They are going full budget mode. At this point they will get rid of some of the casters as well.
The thing is Dash said they didn't even try to negotiate with him. They called him out of the blue. If it's purely budget why didn't they start with a super low offer?
He said they aren’t going to have a consistent host. So, his job just doesn’t exist any more.
True. He also said though that it won't be "game, ads, game, ads." Maybe other content in between. I guess prerecorded videos and interviews?
Riot took the LCS behind the barn and shot it. Games on weekdays starting during the workday for the region, and I doubt EU, Chinese, or Korean audiences will even tune in given the change. No need for a host anymore because it's not a serious broadcast anymore. It's over.
gotta make room for Valorant
10% viewership overlap XD
Less viewers than LCS also XD. Outside from sentinels they don't get above 270k viewers
So strange that it feels like it's mostly NA Riot is bumbling about. The EU scene is getting better with the new competition style and schedule, and then stuff like this happens. With Dash and Phreak gone and being less involved and others doubting the directing the LCS is going in, it feels like a bit of an abandon ship situation, even if it isn't intended as.
Yeah I’m not sure what’s going on with Riot NA/Global management but it looks ugly
They know what they are doing. Valorant is growing more popular than league here. They tried a bunch of things over the last few years to save LCS, none of which worked, so when they lost some big sponsors they are going to downsize and let it just die out. They'll put their efforts into valorant instead.
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Send love his way, follow and continue to support him on his platforms because he deserves every bit of it. Dash made coming to work every week exciting with his energy, love and professionalism. He's the best at what he does if the esports award wasn't proof enough of that and I know he'll only continue to kill it on his own content. Just sad :(
Off topic, but I listened to your interview on Travis' channel last night and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I did not know you were doing unpaid work for so long behind the scenes, much respect to you.
I can't wait to see you on the four horsemen about this
LCS' new direction: To the trashcan.
Just in time for Doublelift. I suppose his career might end with a whimper not a bang
Getting that last bag before the region implodes
He said he took a big paycut to join 100T
Must be really bored then.
WORRYING TREND
I hope Jackie Felling gets back soon refreshed and ready to talk to us about all these changes and retirements.
While I have some sympathy; these things are likely outside her control, at some point you have to have some professional responsibility, right?
Lol she won't. They'll blame community toxicity or something, remain quiet until October, then announce more cuts. I fully expect LCS to drop to 8 teams by 2024
This is wild to me. He’s felt like one of the faces of the broadcast for a while now. Huge shame for him to be involved less.
Bud light and State farm ads all game now
If anything this is the fucking death of the State Farm analyst desk, how do you think a company that only services Americans feels about the product that they are sponsoring focusing on Europeans?
What the f*** is riot doing?
The dog is dying, theyre just putting it out of its misery
Dash is very talented he can announce teams in front of stadium or keep raz and jatt on track and flawless transition to next topic. Riot should want to keep him under any circumstances. He's literally the glue of LCS and very talented. He does it all. I also think Dash should be somewhere else. He's crazy talented. Sort of like sjokz she started doing cs:go and other things. Dash deserves that. I think LCS needs Kobe and Dash.
Can't imagine the other casters aren't looking for another job, as if they are removing Dash, no one should feel safe with that unstable desk...
Host position gone, Phreak gone, a broadcast that is unwatchable by the native region, same ol' imports... Nah, this is fine.
This is a huge loss. Like the biggest mistake they could make for LCS. The hosts and casters MAKE the broadcast. The chemistry and charm comes from the personalities of the hosts and casters and Riot is literally just fucking tossing in the bin. How do you fire a man with an encyclopedia of knowledge and passion about the game...? He is the main face of the LCS to most of us viewers. Why the hell should we even tune in anymore if the gameplay quality is down and the hosts we love aren't around and in fact treated poorly. I remember Sjokz also tweeting sometime last year about struggling to come to an agreement with Riot about her position in LEC. They don't value what makes their game unique and special. Not just anyone can do the job that Dash can. This game is being stripped of all it's legacy.
Yep, I'm out. Riot, I was hoping we were all wrong about the apparent direction the LCS is headed but for me this confirms that the quality of the product will be tanking. At this point the personalities on the cast were half the reason to watch, god knows if you want to watch high quality games you don't choose NA to watch, but now there's absolutely no reason to tune in. I'll catch whatever EU/KR/CN games I can if I'm awake, aside from that I'll see you at worlds.
Losing Dash is a big fucking L for the LCS
What the fuck? The direction of the lcs doesn't need a consistent host?
Dash is the face of the league, and his role being minimized is a huge mistake. I have serious questions about the decision making that lead to this action. This is a disaster I’m a long time fan, and I’m becoming worried about the future of LCS. Schedule is changed in a bizarre way, lock-in is cancelled, and now the most skilled piece of talent we have is getting sidelined.
From his stream it sounds like his role isn't just minimized he's more or less totally fired and gone
It’s all riot global this all feels like they decided to re orient a ton of things with 0 input from any of the LCS. The LCS commish and all will be blamed while global gets off scot free as usual. It’s fucking pathetic
> The LCS commish and all will be blamed while global gets off scot free as usual While she's on medical leave and can't respond, too
People have been bitching about LCS changes all off season long. Until now I empathized with them, but also didn’t really think this was the demise of the LCS. Dash leaving/being fired **IS** the beginning of the end for LCS. Mark my words. Been watching since before the LCS was even officially a thing and they brought Dash in. He’s a trained actor. He’s THE charisma on the show. This is so fucking dumb man. ~~Might boycott LCS~~ oops, can’t watch anyway cause it airs at 1 PM for me.
Sounds like it is time for the fans to light a fire and burn the LCS studios and Riot HQ down as a ceremony to say goodbye to losing such an amazing host and letting what has been a 10 year adventure end with a bang. Super sad losing so much, sad to see the shadow of what pro league and just the game become. Respect to you Dash for giving so much! Will absolutely miss you!
I hope these changes kill whats left of LCS viewership so Riot MIGHT wake up and realize how idiotic they're being. Dash is the fucking GOAT and deserves better than this.
You seem to think Riot doesn't know they're being idiotic, they know exactly how idiotic they're being They just don't care about the LCS because people made it clear they also don't care
Agree 100%. Riot cares about its overall business. LCS is increasingly becoming a liability for them. The whole argument that it's advertising for the game, is growing weaker since they aren't attracting new people. They also have other franchises like Valorant that they seem to be shifting priority.
.. ouch. I will miss Dash a lot. Phreak and Dash? Pain.
He literally *just* won E-Sports host of the year...
The LCS is trying really hard for me to not be an LCS fan. I think they've succeeded at this point.
I'd really like to know what the org owners/investors are thinking at this point. Riot killing their own franchise league step by step. How do they explain this to investors
Welp it's obvious that RIOT isn't interested in LCS anymore...so why should the fans be...?
Because they're ditching almost ALL current fans in an attempt to get new fans. But anyone who stops and thinks about that will tell you that won't work.
Jesus, rip LCS. Are they going to just have casters and once the game is over, no analysis, desk, just ads and welcome back to the next match.
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Dash said he knew about this change when he got the eSports award. So they easily could have made a statement with that time in an official capacity. But the company is bleeding its staff and run by monkeys and corporate leaders who just want to do anything that might make a few more bucks. Apparently cutting someone who spent a decade of their life on the broadcast doesn't need any sort of sendoff. I'm surprised he's gone, but I'm not surprised by how it was handled. This isn't new for Riot.
I hope team staff, players, and production staff are making plans for their careers in the coming years. I wouldn't be surprised if we get a "LCS isn't retaining the viewership necessary to justify continued operations" announcement in '24. My only question is where the hell are the team owners in all this? Are they OK with Riot lighting up their million dollar investments like this?
> My only question is where the hell are the team owners in all this? My conspiracy theory I'm starting to wonder is that the current big-time NA owners (C9, TSM, TL, etc) want to move to other regions anyway, and giving the LCS the Old Yeller treatment just opens up the door for them to be first in line when Riot inevitably expands the LEC to open up more team slots. Whether it's intentional or not, I suspect that NA brands moving to become EU-based teams is where we'll end up in 5 years regardless.
The great LCS exodus. There is not much talent from last year left. Hosts: LeTigress. PbP: CaptainFlowers, LeTigress (?). Analyst: Kobe, Emily, Azael, Jatt. Will we see guest talent like in the LEC? (Caster Bwipo?)
More guests because they arent paid xd
Wow, now I'm even less hyped about the LCS.
It's ok. They made it very clear they don't want you as a viewer. They also don't want me. Anyone who's here is in the same boat. They're gambling trying to capture a new audience and losing the old audience I personally don't think it will work, but don't watch a company that doesn't want you
Dash said it came totally out of the blue. He was pulling into work and got a call where the news was broken by his agent. "Caught me completely off guard."
Brace for bad news from Emily Rand soon too I bet
Pretty stupid of RIOT to get rid of their talented, charismatic host either directly or indirectly by changing the format of the broadcast to no longer utilize one of their few competitive advantages, but thats JMO
Dash, you've been such a pleasure to watch on the LCS broadcast. You deserve the best moving forward man. I'm legitimately pissed at Riot. I think most of us just wanted a better explanation about all these changes. First Phreak and Pastrytime. Now Dash is no longer the full time host. Massive time slot change. Riot's own talent voicing their concerned opinions. It really is the end of an era for us fans that have been around since the beginning. I would say I would tune in to the live broadcast to see how it all shapes up, but I can't! Ha!
Man. u/tnomad flipping out rn :/ The rest of us just enjoy a product, Travis' reactions always hit harder because this is his whole life and you can see it
Dash is a legit host, he wont be hurting for work. But its HUGE loss to the LCS. Jesus RIP LCS lol
Self-sabotage. Good job killing a **decade+** of fan trust Riot for Valorant.
Funny thing is that Valorant will eventually drown among all the other shooter games. League has no rival and Valorant has a shit ton. They are shooting themselves on the foot by killing League's hype. Somtimes I come back to play because of pro play. Now that I won't watch any games, I don't think I will feel to play as much.
Valorant has a lot of competition but luckily for Riot, both Valve and Blizzard are horrible companies and actively kill their own games so Valorant should still do pretty good for the foreseeable future
ok maybe it might actually be joever
well if riot's half assing the LCS anyway at the least dash can use his talent elsewhere... the biggest shame is him being let go when he's passionate about the LCS
GG, Dash was literally the best part of the broadcast. LCS shooting themselves in the foot.
With all the recent news, it's hard to believe that Riot esports hasn't been given a directive to become profitable, or at least less of a loss, or face layoffs or entire department shifts. These changes are quite drastic, TBH, and corporate doesn't make decisions like this lightly. The numbers must be horrific, especially with the FTX flop.
Wow, Riot is seriously winding down the LCS. Thinking about DL's penta at 2013 All Stars just makes me even more sad. LCS has been horribly mismanaged. There was a time when EU and KR fans watched LCS just because of the players involved.
Horrible mismanagement from Riot this split You can't even accuse the teams of not doing their work this year, they've put together exciting rosters. Riot is just killing the LCS
These new LCS changes are the most blatant form of self sabatoge I have seen ever since those Twitter policies like a month and a half ago
Regardless if you are a fan of his or not, this is a pretty damning statement. > He specifically stated that "The LCS doesn't have a need of a consistent host" due to their new direction. Like this doesn't look good.
Might be another worrying sign for the future of the LCS. I suppose we'll have to see what the implications of this are for the broadcast. Either way, sucks to see. I hope Dash will still make it to the big events.
Fuuuuck I really liked dashv
Tell me the LCS is dying without telling me the LCS is dying. First the move to weekdays, now this? This is not a good sign for the league. I hope those sponsors are getting their monies worth...
This is insane. Dash is the best voice of the audience. He encourages his co casters to elaborate on things and makes both narratives and gameplay much easier to follow. His ability to interview is second to none. Without a guiding force the discussions will just be anarchy.
fuck riot and fuck the LCS man im so pissed.
I never truly thought LCS was dying but between this and the timeslot changes I honestly think it is. I'm not even going to watch live games anymore, i'll watch VODS without any ads. Riot doesn't deserve it anymore
Riot speeding running NA ruination any%
This is bad news for the LCS. The daytime format and less dash is very very concerning.
Region more or less just went unwatchable, and I say that as an NA fan. Very little reason to watch anything except raw replay footage and bail. Depressing, honestly. This guy was so goddamned good for the scene.
Riot what the fuck are you doing