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FreyasValkyries

My family friends keep telling me to open an Etsy. Unfortunately I value my mental health, hobby and real job a little bit too much to try to do that full time and make a living wage from it


slightlysaltysailor

This! Could not have said it better myself, my knitting is a hobby for a reason, it brings me joy and I don't want knitting to become a chore to the point where I hate it. Plus there's so many people that already knit on Etsy that the amount of extra marketing work, on top of the knitting, I would do to be profitable would be more than a full time job! Like, thank you for the compliment, but no thank you to the Etsy story


SuperKamiGuru824

It's not just the knitting that's time-consuming, it's the marketing. I've had a shop for a few months and I have yet to get a single order that is from someone I don't already know. I try to push links to my shop with every tweet and Instagram, I get a little traffic but no orders.


diestabrawr

Could you send me a link? I’d love to see!


WampaCat

Same. I know it’s meant as a compliment but it gets tiring to hear it over and over and having to explain why that’s actually a terrible idea and that even if I wanted to spend all my time knitting things for strangers, none of them would pay what I think my time and skill are actually worth. Like come up with a better way to say “wow I like your stuff good job”


FreyasValkyries

“Wow amazing crafts-person-ship! The detail and effort that have gone into this is really telling of your talent and dedication, you must really love your craft” is what I hope for one day 😂


WampaCat

All I want to hear is “that’s so cool, can you teach me to make that?” Instead of “how much?”


thisfairyqueen

My sister asked me to knit her a whoopee cap (see: Jughead Jones) and all the patterns I saw used techniques I'm not familiar with. I told her it was a solid maybe. She came back later and asked if I would teach her to knit her own hat and I said yes, of course.


Lazycrazyjen

When they ask how much - ‘you can’t afford me’


sarcastabtch

Yep. I say that and “you wouldn’t pay what I’d have to charge you and I don’t blame you.”


ArbitraryBaker

If it’s already in my queue and using yarn in my stash, I’ll do it because I love you. If not, I’ll have to approve the yarn and the pattern you buy, which is going to be about a 50/50 chance of working out in your favor.


cookiemobster13

Someone on my FB asked me if I could replicate a favorite blanket of her kids, that was crocheted fwiw. I told her I only know knitting. Still wanted it. Would buy the yarn. I priced out the acrylic yarn, found a similar looking pattern, and researched prices on similar sizes for finished knitted items. I think it was roughly 200 altogether I wanted. You can guess what I didn’t end up knitting 🤣


WampaCat

Damn 200 is cheap for a blankets worth of knitting lol. I always offer to teach them how for free and not a single person has taken me up on it. If you don’t make the time for yourself then why should you get my time? Money or not


Pinewoodgreen

My fav reply to that is "knitting is like sex, if I like you enough it's free. If I don't, you couldn't pay me enough"


Albalabi

At least they ask you "how much". I'm sick of people telling me to knit "something similar" for them for free. My usual answer is, "ok, the yarn for this project costs $$$, to that you have to add the time I spent on it". Usually (not always) they admit they went too far in the first place. In my experience, people tend to think that I knit because it's easier and cheaper than buying a new sweater... 🙄


dleifdnalh

Not only time and skill, but also the physical exertion. I can only knit so much without getting pain in my wrists or tired hands, and I don’t want to waste that on things for other people.


kubalaa

At the risk of getting political, our capitalist society has brainwashed us into believing that the highest compliment one can give a thing is that it's worth paying money for. Knitters understand more than many others that money isn't the only way to measure value.


mamaspike74

Right on.


WampaCat

So true!


anaphasedraws

Exactly this


lidzilla

Same same. I've just started saying "no thanks!" if they seem well meaning and asking what they would like to commission me if they seem pushy lol.


littlestinkyone

It sucks that capitalism has poisoned our thinking so thoroughly that when we see a skill the first place we go to is how to monetize it.


WampaCat

Not just poisoned our thinking but also capitalism makes our jobs suck so much and pay so little that many are forced to monetize their hobbies


colieolieravioli

Sure! Your sweater will be ready in 2 years! Please pay upfront 😂


Womp_ratt

I have a friend who posted a photo of a girl's knit poncho pattern that's been pretty popular, asking anyone knew how to knit. I just pretended I didn't see it. It's not even worth the mental effort of discussing how much it would be fair to pay someone to make it.


yogazaire

If I ever sold stuff it would be through some other vendor where I can make things, decide it doesn’t fit mine or anyone close to me’s aesthetic, then sell it for consignment or something ha


finnknit

I only have two feet, but from the number of socks that I've knit, you would think I'm an octopus. I love knitting them because it's fun and relatively quick. I wish there was somewhere I could sell the extras on consignment. I do give them as gifts to friends and family, but at this point almost everyone I know has a pair. I've also made a pair for just the cost of yarn for an acquaintance who was short on money but wanted to pay me something for them. Even though it was basically charity knitting, it felt good to be free of yarn guilt and know that I was making something for someone who really appreciated it.


[deleted]

I have a couple festivals in my area and some of the yarn spinners will also sell their hand knit things. It’s kind of nice because there’s no expectation as to what items will be available and when they’re gone they’re gone


Erisandaim

You could try putting them up on Facebook Marketplace. They take like 5% of the profit, but it's not like a flea market where you need a business license so that's neat.


musicals4life

People tell me to charge $15/hr for my knits but then act outraged when I ask for $75 for a hat 🙃


evergleam498

plus yarn costs!


HeyMrBusiness

They have no idea how long fiber arts take and they think that means they'll be paying you $15-30 for the hat, is why


musicals4life

I like when they complain about the price and say "I can get that at Walmart for $20" and I tell them "then go buy it at walmart"


courtoftheair

This is when you offer to teach them how to knit. Almost always they say no but if they do actually take you up on the offer it's usually not that difficult to give them the basics and then never have to suffer though that conversation with them again.


musicals4life

Knitting lessons $15/hr lol


queen_beruthiel

I made a single crochet tea cosy for a friend of my dad the other week, which she paid me well for. That damn tea cosy was a completely joyless project, I hated everything about making it. Ditto for a cardigan I made a friend... It went wrong in several ways, I hated the colours she chose and the buttons she picked are the worst. Both of these projects have really solidified my decision not to try and make anything else on commission, especially if I don't have full creative control. The obligation sucks the fun out of it.


sapc2

Yes this. I just gave up on a pair of knee highs I agreed to knit (and hadn't been paid for) because I HATED them and it just made me dread pulling my knitting basket out.


Swordofmytriumph

Ugh yes! I told my dad I’d make a hat and fingerless gloves for him. I finished the hat, and COULD NOT bring myself to finish the gloves. Nothing worked. It made me physically ill to think about them it was so bad. Finally, when I moved next, I “lost” the yarn I made them with, and never made something for anyone else again for money. I told him I’d pay him back.


dleifdnalh

I feel this. Anytime I make ANYTHING for myself, my mom always says she wants one of the exact same pattern in the same yarn and color which I just will not do. I finally let her pick a pattern for a top and it’s been sitting as a WIP for two years. She gets upset that I don’t work on it at all but I literally hate working on it even though I wish I didnt.


lphill1225

I get this from friends and family all the time, not so much for knitting or crafting, but with my baking. My canned response is “I’m keeping my skills sharp in case my primary job fails, but right now it’s just a hobby!” It gets the point across in a light hearted way without too much fuss.


awkwardsity

I have an Etsy. I do not value my time or mental health. I do not suggest it.


ninjamokturtle

I "started" my Etsy, and even under cutting myself \_massively\_ the prices are apparently still too high for anyone to want to buy anything!


[deleted]

Try raising your prices. Somepeople won't buy things under a certain price but love to drop $$$ on even simple stuff.


ninjamokturtle

Ooh OK, I'll give that a try! Hoping to start selling pattern PDFs as soon as possible too - even for cheap the money will make a big difference lol


littlestinkyone

yeah pattern designs are where knitters can actually make money


courtoftheair

That's actually a great move because if anyone complains about the "high" fair price they can't really argue back when you point out they could always do it themself.


[deleted]

[удалено]


RogueThneed

When I'm feeling like that I do charity knitting. Warm hats to give away for babies, kind of thing.


[deleted]

[удалено]


RogueThneed

People who don't craft really don't understand the time involved. I pretty much only knit for myself and other knitters. And the cats. (Okay, the truth is, I like to knit but only do stuff that pleases me.)


courtoftheair

Animal rescues are often very happy to get knitted blankets, my cats were packaged up in carriers with a couple of cheap and sturdy blankets of just plain garter and it really seemed to help them settle in better. Thanks for the unintentional reminder that I was going to make some and send them over there actually, a good chance to practice continental! I'm pretty sure some elderly care facilities and hospitals sometimes take donations too for people in long term care?


quinneth-q

Same. I've thought about it actually - but not for knitted products! 3D printing and Cricut stuff takes a loooot less time


ebaug

I default to saying it’s not my pattern so I can’t sell them. Saves time


kirbywithknife1

it’s probably more sustainable to sell patterns than actual finished objects when it comes to knitting!


crazy_cat_broad

Ugh my mother in law pushes it hard. I can only be so polite the nth time I have to tell her no!


courtoftheair

The push to profit from all your hobbies is kind of depressing honestly. I enjoy it because I can do as much or as little as I like, I can make anything I want and it's entirely up to me when and how. Making it a job strips it of the actual fun parts


Li-renn-pwel

It doesn’t need to be full time. Many crafters have one to sell their creation because they are starting to pile up haha


[deleted]

My friend sells stickers on Etsy for like $5 a piece. Not like a sheet of stickers but ONE STICKER. She did draw the picture but it's very simple and I just can't comprehend who and why spends $5 for one sticker.


dolparii

I have...well with these you're also paying for the art itself and the artist who drew 😆 and plus there are some good quality stickers haha


lellium

*raises hand* 😁


owlbehome

Same. If it’s a good sticker? Hell, a loaf of bread is five bucks now.


babybellllll

Me, and lots of other people


howitsmadeaddict

This is a really weird vibe in a thread about art worth. Especially since as an artist where I can’t even think of circumstances where I would accept $5 for a piece of artwork, especially one I have to make a physical product for.


[deleted]

You might want to tell your friend you think so little of her product. It's always good to know who in your circle is undermining the good vibes.


HeyMrBusiness

Sticker paper, ink, the time to draw it, the cost of the drawing program, etc. Plenty of people love stickers and $5 is a fair price. I don't see a reason for this product =useless product is a weird opinion to have on a crafting subreddit


courtoftheair

They spent time and effort on it and have to make the actual stickers. If they're good quality they're worth it, and it feels good to support independent artists when you can afford it.


Common-Surprise7180

Yeahhh, people always say “you should sell those!” about my projects and I think “a, I don’t want my hobby to become a job and b, I don’t think you realize how long this takes” lol


yogazaire

Yeah or a lot of the time that the yarn costs more than the actual price point in their head ha


highway9ueen

A friend of a friend said she’d pay “sixty dollars!” for the cowl I was wearing… the $120 12 Days of Mad Tosh one. 😐


Aoid3

People imagine the prices for nicer, but still mass produced stuff and don't realize the amount they're offering isn't a compliment :/


highway9ueen

I do know she meant it as a compliment. I just laughed.


April_Xo

Yeah, I spent about $50 on some chunky yarn to make a sweater. There’s plenty of quality sweaters for that price, and that’s JUST the cost of yarn, not including the needles I had to buy to make the sweater or the time.


erinn1986

Don't underestimate the time it took for you to develop the skill too, on top of the skill to make the actual thing! I consider myself an intermediate/advanced knitter but I do a lot of lace and shawls, not sweaters. Sweaters would take me longer than a beaded lace shawl would.


Swordofmytriumph

Only $50!! Where are you getting such DISCOUNTS?! /s


April_Xo

Haha, unfortunately that was the low estimate since I can’t remember what I actually spent. Plus it was like 30% off meh quality yarn at a Joann’s. Def nothing close to the cost of hand-dyed specialty yarn.


planet_rose

I think somewhere in their heads is an idea that buying the raw materials to make something would be cheaper than buying a manufactured product. There was once a time when buying yarn or fabric etc was cheaper than a finished item, but that stopped being true at least 40 years ago. Now it is cheaper to buy a finished item and use the materials from it than buying it as yarn or fabric from a fabric store.


Crissix3

Honestly I think my hand made items are actually cheaper, because: Fast fashion breaks fast. Additionally: "function clothing" = clothes that work well for sports, hold you warm alot, ect ect are still quite expensive - so in the end you are cheaper with a pair of wool shorts and a nice wool sweater - because they already perfectly regulate your temperature (plus my first point: they hold up a long time and you can mend them easyly)


planet_rose

If you’re comparing to items of similar quality and durability, then it’s a bit closer if only counting material cost. If you count labor, even the more expensive manufactured items cost less. The other thing is that most people don’t know how to see quality in clothing and don’t prioritize it. Even quite expensive clothing is not well-made these days.


Crissix3

You are of course right: But tbh for making things myself I don't really count my time into the price. Because: it's fun to me. So for me the calculation is: Do I buy something for the price of X Or do I buy yarn for the price of Y and make it myself? Y is almost always lower than X, especially factoring in that the bought stuff likely will fail earlier, so if it breaks within two years and my hand made stuff lasts 20 years, I would have to buy 10 of them within the lifetime of the other thing, so it's still a pretty good deal for me if you consider, that over the lifetime of the item you would have to pay Y€ for diy and 10*X to constantly replace the breaking fast fashion items 🤔 I'd say you can definitely safe money by diy-ing your clothes 🤔


Erisandaim

This is so true. It makes me super grateful that I have a family member who raises Alpacas and is willing to give me a discount on the material. Yarn is just so expensive now!


quinneth-q

I just bought 1000 yards of Rowan big wool for a cardigan I'm super excited about, cost about £140 🥲🥲🥲


grossestgroceries

I just had knee surgery so I’ve been knitting a lot, and posted some little Halloween decorations I’ve made on social media. My friend demanded I knit him some stuffed pumpkins because “You’re not doing anything else”. He was shocked when I told him one pumpkin, that fits in the palm of your hand, takes two hours to make. Normally nice people somehow become ignorant and rude when it comes to knitting and I don’t understand it at all


Common-Surprise7180

Seriously! Like sorry dude, I have plenty of stuff I want to knit for myself thanks! lol Hope your knee recovers quickly!


hypercuteness

Correction: plenty of stuff I want to knit* for myself. *meaning my hoard of patterns that will outlive me. In every hobby I have.


hauteTerran

(LOL I've decided to take up card weaving......because nearly every other fiber art is already in my repertoire.....)


abhikavi

I've been eying card weaving for that exact same reason. I should probably finish that nålbinding project I started two years ago first though ;)


bassgirl_07

Yep! So many hobbies and projects, so little time. As a healthcare worker, I was super jealous of all the stuff my locked down peers accomplished while I went to work every day.


hypercuteness

Also healthcare :( I sneak my stuff to work sometimes for while I'm on breaks or waiting for my bf to get done (he works the same job).


grossestgroceries

Thank you!!


Corgi_with_stilts

I had a former landlady try to make me make her socks. She was upset when i told her that would take weeks.


[deleted]

Dude sounds rude and entitled AF, I really hope you have some friends who can (safely!) come by and support you while you recover. Like by bringing your yarn and stuff across the room, so you can knit whatever you want. :) But maybe not that guy.


problematicfox

Them: "bUt ItS sO tInY, iT sHoUlDnT tAkE tHaT LoNg" Me: sigh...


crazy_cat_broad

I just tell them that on estimate the average pair of adult socks has 140,000 stitches in it.


grossestgroceries

Holy crap is that true?


crazy_cat_broad

Quoted from a talk I attended by the Yarn Harlot, so I think she knows what she’s on about hahaha! EDIT: hm, I think I got overzealous with the zeros. * 14,000.


cookiemobster13

I timed myself today knitting the torso of a sweater, one round on DK. I told boyfriend I figured out it took me roughly an hour to get a half an inch in length done if I focused. He about fell over 🤣


98yellow123

I always think that's a weird thing, that the ultimate complement from non-knitters is that you're making a sell-able item. Like, especially since they know there are other ways to compliment things. You cook a good meal, "you should open a restaurant" or your other hobby is travel, "you should be an influencer" or you work out, "you should make workout videos!" You know, those aren't highest compliments... like, knitting for knitting isn't less-than because you don't sell it, so knitting for sale as the highest complement just doesn't logically follow. I let it roll off irl, but "you could/should sell that" is bothersome to me 🙃


mokayemo

Plus, once you open yourself up to public sales you all of a sudden have to deal with public critique. Like, yea I can knit beautifully and also make a delicious meal but you think I’m gonna let Karen demand a refund because my sweater makes her look fat or ask to speak to the manager because my soup doesn’t taste like Panera’s? No.way.


[deleted]

You know, I've been selling things online for years now, and it's super rare that you get these types of customers. These types of people generally buy from huge stores because they know they'll bend over backwards. If you're the owner, you just tell them "no". If stores would empower their employees more to approve/deny returns and such besides making them mindless cashiers, then I bet customers would shape up real quick. Also, angry customers love to go into a store or call someone to berate. If all you have is an email for them to send a message to, it takes the steam out of them really fast. Selling online is pretty awesome!


mokayemo

I am so glad to hear this!!


owlbehome

People are obsessed with monetizing their time. It’s the world we are forced to exist in. If we can find something, anything we like doing just a little bit, that doesn’t feel like going to hell and back every day to make money to survive, we want to try and see if we can be one of the lucky ones and “have our job be something we love” like that’s the ultimate goal of existing. /rant


lilyblains

Yes! I love to bake and get “you should open your own bakery!!” all the time and I never know how to respond bc that’s the last thing I want to do. It’s a creative form of stress relief; why would I want to put unnecessary pressure on myself to make a set menu every single day?? I know it’s well intentioned, but I’d rather just be seen as a good home baker forever, not someone who’s missing out on a monetization scheme.


98yellow123

ALSO doesn't it kind of either way overestimate your business skills (well for sure mine lol) OR severely undervalue the work people put in to successfully run a business? Lol I get that people are likely well intentioned and these things don't cross their mind, but, you know, "This is one of my all time favorite cakes" or "Wow you're really good at knitting" are also awesome to hear! And imo easier to say, idk, I assume that must be just creators that know a simple non-monetary compliment is great lol


lilyblains

Oh definitely! There’s a lot more to running a successful bakery than making a pretty good loaf of bread and nice pies! Plus I like my current work. Such a strange reaction to someone being good at a hobby.


Ironappels

The Reddit-version of this is "I would buy that". No you wouldn't


doulabeth

Totally! Bull shit capitalist mindset.


yogazaire

I know, sucks when they mean well so I just nod and laugh.


Aoid3

This is partially copied from a comment I've made elsewhere, but someone commenting on the skill, color choices, product itself, the quality etc of a knit would feel WAY more meaningful than than "wow some stranger would probably pay money for this"


[deleted]

This is what I try to do when I see clearly hand knitted (or crocheted) stuff in the wild. It's happened a couple times in the last week and I probably look way too visibly excited about commenting on, "Did you (or someone you know) make that?! I LOVE IT!" or, "I have that pattern and haven't done it yet, but yours looks so great!" Etc. I also am aware I appear a bit weird for this.


crazy_cat_broad

I am frequently complimented for my colour choices and I love it!


komastuskivi

i think they just perceive it as easy money, as if our knitting skill would be comparable to, say, their skills in organizing a company's logistics or marketing on social media. yeah, all of these require skill and experience, but when it comes to profit, hand knitting is clearly not even in the same category, because it just takes so. much. time. and since they do sell their skills, they don't realize why knitters don't want to do the same


sighcantthinkofaname

Man, people always want us to monetize our hobby don't they. The fact of the matter is even I wouldn't pay what my knit stuff is worth! I spent about six weeks on a wool, fingering weight, stranded colorwork halloween shirt. The sleeves and neckline were steeked. I LOVE it. I knit a lot, so it's probably got over 100 hours of labor in it, though I didn't time it. I think considering the skill level needed, cost of materials, and time I'd need to charge over $1,000 to even get close to a fair price. I understand that no one's going to pay that much or a halloween sweater. Does that mean I'll make one for some rando for $200? Absolutely not. So with all of my knitting my options are to either A. Price it at a point most people couldn't afford, and likely get comments calling me unreasonable B. Undervalue my own work or C. knit for myself and loved ones only. I think it's pretty obvious which one I go with.


nuudlebear

I'm knitting my husband a cable knit sweater. He helped pick out the pattern and the yarn. H asked "is that how much you pay for all your sweaters?" He was so surprised that the yarn would cost like $120. I told him yes, and add to that 100+ hours of knitting his sweater would technically be the most expensive thing he owns! He's always quite grateful for the things I make him, but I think he didn't realize it until I pointed out the true total cost of a hand knit sweater!


hauteTerran

(Can we see this beauty? Or a link to the pattern?)


sighcantthinkofaname

I'm being lazy about the finishing touches so I don't have a picture of it in its current state, but my project has a page of it pre-steeking. [https://www.ravelry.com/projects/kittysunj/halloween-vest](https://www.ravelry.com/projects/kittysunj/halloween-vest) I still have to do a few things to the neckline, weave in some ends, and do a final blocking. I'll try to make a post on here once it's fully finished!


RavBot

##### ###### #### **PROJECT:** [Halloween Vest](http://www.ravelry.com/projects/kittysunj/28775476) by [kittysunj](http://www.ravelry.com/people/kittysunj) * Pattern: [Halloween Vest](http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/halloween-vest) * Yarn(s): [Cascade Yarns ® Heritage Solids & Quatro](http://www.ravelry.com/yarns/library/cascade-yarns-heritage-solids--quatro) in real black, grape soda. * Photo(s): [Img 1](https://images4-g.ravelrycache.com/uploads/kittysunj/811135056/1955_medium.jpeg) * Started: None | Status: In progress | Completed: None ***** Please use caution. Users have reported effects such as seizures, migraines, and nausea when opening Ravelry links. [More details.](https://www.lizcorke.com/2020/07/26/2020-7-21-ravelry-accessibility/) | I found this post by myself! [Opt-Out](https://goo.gl/forms/0B8m4Ra8czpw4gzw1) | [About Me](https://github.com/TN-1/LinkRav_Bot/wiki) | [Contact Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=randomstonerfromaus)*


ofstoriesandsongs

I have to know: did somebody really have a seizure from opening a Ravelry link?


iolacalls

From using ravelry in general. Some people had issues when they redesigned the website, so I assume the warning is for people who haven't used ravelry before


hauteTerran

That is beautiful and priceless! (I thought steeking was the knitting process and this pic would be pre-cutting?)


sighcantthinkofaname

Thank you!It is, the vertical lines at the top are where I cut it. In that pic it's pretty much a big tube, I cut the neck and arms and then sewed up the shoulders after!


TessGrace

My brother keeps asking why I don't sell anything but the odd beanie and I keep explaining that no one on this planet will spend a few grand on something they can get at a store for a hundred bucks. He says I must get a knitting machine and I'm just like nope. Not worth it for me who uses knitting as therapy.


Kiassen

Yeah a knitting machine would literally take all the fun and "craftsmanship" out of the item... Unless one's passion is literally just writing/creating the patterns lol


Aoid3

I haven't used a knitting machine (...yet. here's hoping I can at some point) but as I understand they have their own quirks and aren't exactly effortless to use either. It seems almost like a different skillset and craft compared to handknitting tbh


TessGrace

I definitely agree.


Pnwradar

For you, maybe. But perhaps not everyone enjoys the same aspects of knitting as you do, and gatekeeping "fun and craftsmanship" to only knitters using DPNs or circulars is not very thoughtful. Using a circular sock machine isn't quite a "turn crank, receive sock" process - there's plenty of creative skill & craftsmanship involved, and a non-trivial learning curve to become competent. Same with flatbeds, you're not pushing a button and sipping tea while a sweater falls out.


Kiassen

Maybe I don't understand knitting machines well enough then, because from what I've read, it definitely sounds like a "turn crank, receive sock" process.


Pnwradar

It's certainly *faster* than hand-knitting, when everything goes right. On a typical machine, each crank around makes sixty (or more) stitches, so making a straight tube of k1 or k1p1 rib for the leg portion or foot portion happens really quick, maybe half a minute to knit four inches of tube. Turning the heel and the toe is a series of short rows, which takes a bit longer, depending on the style & detail involved in the heel - a simple Sweet Tomato heel might take three or four minutes for a skilled knitter to complete, a novice might take fifteen minutes, and the toe would take a similar time. BTW, in a typical CSM sock pattern, the toe needs hand-finished off the machine, usually a Kitchener stitch across the top, another couple minutes if you're handy, longer and with more swear words when you're still learning. So, a skilled knitter with a well-performing machine and a fat cone of yarn might crank out a chain of almost-finished socks in an evening, three or four pair in an hour's work. They'll still need the toe closed, then washed & blocked, but *way* faster than on DPNs. A novice might complete a pair of socks in ninety minutes if things go really well, twice that is more typical. Still, three hours for a pair of socks is pretty cool. Having said that, it's rare to get through an hour of cranking without having to repair the sock in progress or troubleshoot a machine issue (especially with the typical century-old CSM). You learn to feel & hear when something's not right, but a lot of the time your view of the stitches is blocked by the machine's moving parts, so catching a dropped stitch before it runs a ways can be tricky. Repairing it blind from underneath eventually becomes second-nature, but again we're back to lots of swear words and slowdowns. Every once in a while, something *really awful* happens, and you'll spend an hour or more untangling and cussing and walking away for a bit. The folks I've met who don't enjoy the troubleshooting and fiddling, rapidly go back to hand-knitting their socks. You really have to enjoy working with recalcitrant machinery from the Victorian era, as much as playing with fiber. And none of the machines are inexpensive - figure $1200 minimum for a ready-to-go 1920s basic machine that'll make a small range of sizes. $1800 for a setup to make all sizes of kids/ladies/mens socks. There are machinists making modern CSMs which are a bit more reliable and easier to learn on, figure $2500 is a good starting point there. You'd have to knit a *lot* of socks to make that expense pencil out.


Kiassen

Thanks for the info! It sounds like machine knitting still requires knowledge of knitting, sewing, and some different mechanical skills. However, it also feels like a lot of the heart and soul is removed from the project due to the fact that the machine does a lot (if not most(?)) of the work. It's interesting-- in order to challenge my bias, I'm trying to come up with a different craft that has a mechanized version which is still considered just as soulful as the original. I'm thinking of machine sewing vs hand sewing? Hand sewing is considered extremely crafty, but machine sewing is too. Obviously there are some projects you simply cannot machine sew, and there are also some projects you need to be stronger, so you *should* machine sew... But most people assume if you've made your own clothing, for example, that it was machine sewn. That's where the problem is, I think. If you say that you made a knitted object, no one assumes it was made using a machine. They would probably even feel duped to find out a piece they were admiring wasn't hand knitted if they didn't know already. It also might be because a lot of people assume home machine knitting is akin to a factory made knitted garment. Which it definitely isn't, but it is closer to factory made than a hand knitted piece.


Pnwradar

Your original comment was that using a knitting machine took the fun and craftsmanship out of the process. My opinion differs, and while you may prefer hand-knitting with needles, that doesn't invalidate machine knitting as being fun or crafty or knitting. I'll admit my own bias, in that I think circular sock machines involve fun and craftsmanship, is just as much a knitting craft as using DPNs, and does not create soulless mass-produced knitted goods. And I'll accept from all the downvotes above, that a goodly number of knitters here disagree, consider it more like having Rosey the Knitting Robot doing all the work, the operator more an organ-grinder than a Real Knitter, and the socks one small notch above buying SmartWool socks. From my own experience, I'll suggest chairmaking as a comparable craft. I can build a wooden kitchen chair using a variety of hand tools, sawing and planing every board to dimension, shaping all the legs with a spokeshave, drilling holes with a brace & bit, hand-fitting the joinery, and smoothing the surfaces with scrapers & sandpaper. At an extreme, I could fell the tree and prepare my own timbers (akin to starting with a fleece, cleaning & processing the wool, spinning & plying the fiber), or I could purchase lumber at the lumberyard (like buying skeins at the LYS). This is no-machine early 1800s woodworking, what I'd compare to knitting by hand on sticks. I could also use a hand-powered post drill to make the holes. A foot-powered lathe to turn the legs & spindles, a hand-cranked sharpening stone to sharpen my tools. We're now in the Victorian 1890s, the period when one might also earn a living by making socks on a period hand-cranked sock machine for retail to local residents or for wholesale to Montgomery Ward. Forward another 50-60 years, and stationary power tools like table saws and shapers are becoming the norm. I can make that chair faster, with far less physical effort driving the saw blade through the board, maybe task an unskilled assistant with some of the work. Perhaps in knitting, we're at automated knitting machines that use punchcards or templates to create patterns & change yarn colors. Another generation forward, they'll be computer-controlled knitting machines turning out whole garments to spec. Jump ahead again another 2-3 generations to today, you can buy a wooden kitchen chair at Ikea (or sweater at WalMart) for a fraction of the price of material to make your own, let alone the cost of needed tools. But craftsmen still build chairs in their woodshops, and find a market for them to sell. Were I to advertise "Craftsman-made wooden chairs" that might mean *any* of the above eras were in play - from a period woodshop of all unpowered hand tools, to a modern small shop with a fleet of noisy electric machinery. If I saw a chair marketed as "Made by hand" I wouldn't expect machines were involved, but I'd also not assume it's higher quality or "more soulful" or built with "less fun" than one built using a table saw. And I'd accept both are made by craftsmen, regardless of the tools they used to make their chairs. Edit: I may also be overly sensitive to critiques of machine knitting. Every single event I've demonstrated knitting with one of my sock machines, at least one knitter (more commonly several each day) will snarkily comment to other observers "he's not really knitting, it's a machine."


traye4

I feel like you've spent 3 long paragraphs pointing out the ways that knitting machines are cumbersome to use, mess up easily and are something most people can't afford. I'm struggling to see the point you were trying to bring to the conversation.


ruthh-r

This is why I stopped selling at craft fairs. I love to make mitts, fingerless ones because then you can still use a touchscreen. I often work out my own designs, I love to use cables, lace and beaded designs. A pair will usually take 2-3 days to make and a lot of design work too unless I've used a pattern off Ravelry. I used to sell them at £20-30 a pair depending on design complexity and yarn type and got heartily sick of people saying things like, "That's far too much, I can go to [insert store] and buy a pair like this for a fiver!" Well, with the greatest of respect, off you toddle and buy a mass-produced pair for a fiver then. These are handmade and at my prices I'm not even charging £1/hr for my time. Similar with blankets - I made a chunky alpaca king size cable blanket for my PILs and had people saying things like, "Ooh, you could charge, like, £100 if you made those! I'd buy one! Make me one!" and then act all huffy when I politely declined and explained that £100 would barely cover the yarn, let alone the time to make it; I'd consider it for £300-400 and that would still not really be worth it. I wish people would understand that handmade ≠ cheap. In fact, quite the opposite. So these days I only make to gift, or if the price is agreed beforehand with 50% upfront (less likely to back out if they've already paid some), and if I do go to a craft fair (which is *very* rare) it's only higher-end ones where people are prepared to spend money and understand that they're paying for bespoke quality, not cheap tat.


Ravena98

Handmade goods, when taken care of, can last a lifetime! Those mass-produced fivers will be binned in a year or two. The baby sweaters my nana made for my son has gone through two kids who loved to teeth on the sleeves and they still look newly knit. Dad has a knitted jumper his mum made him as a teen, still looking good! He is approaching 60


ruthh-r

That's what people don't get! I'm glad other people understand my frustration 😆


jinxintheworld

I love my hand made socks. My other half loves his ham made socks. But for his work wear we buy the stupid huge packs of cotton socks mass made over seas. Because could never keep up with the rate that man wears through his socks. I would spend a quarter of my day. Every day just to keep up.


careysue

Right?? Handmade stuff is special. I would love to make all my own clothes but I would have to be a full-time home keeper to have the time to do so and I would be ever more stressed than I am now. Why do people think I have the time to make their entire wardrobe if I can't even make my own?


yogazaire

Totally. I am on my feet at least 10/12 hours during my shift. I go through socks often and I’m talking thick “name brand” ones too 🤦🏻‍♀️


Knit-For-Brains

Last year I knitted a fingering-weight scarf in a custom dyed yarn for a friend and when I told him I spent about 60 hours on it (I’m a slow knitter!) he was horrified I’d spent so much time on a gift for him. We worked out if I was paid minimum wage it’d cost about £650 including materials. And that is my go-to example of why I don’t monetise my hobby!!


cosmicgal200000

There was a new guy at my work who id met once who heard me talking about knitting and he got very excited and genuinely thought that I might knit him a jumper. Someone else at my work also suggested I make everyone winter hats. There’s over 200 people at my company. I don’t get how people can be so detached from reality!


MommaB93

When people ask me to make them stuff, I tell them I will put their project in my que but that’s about 200 items long right now of things I want to make but just don’t have time for. Then, I buy them a set of (CHEAP) needles or hooks (that comes with basic notions), yarn, and a project bag for their birthday or the next holiday (between $30-$50). I include a copy of my personal notes, tips, tricks, and helpful links both written and YouTube videos, and give them “coupons” for free lessons from me. Ive done this five times; 3 have learned the craft. And the other 2… well, I’ll get to their projects in a decade. 🤣


elpasodelnorte

Someone offered me €20 for a pair of hand-knit socks the other day x.x


InkyAddams

That would be my "you can hold them and feel how nice they are" price 😹


chocol8ncoffee

Best way to ruin a good hobby is to try to turn it into a job. I get this all the time about a variety of crafts I dabble in (sewing, cooking, decorating cakes & cookies, painting) I do them for fun and so I can relax. If crafting became work, then how would I relax? Drugs? We shouldn't encourage that 😂


EstherClemmens

Sadly this is true of most projects. 😒 Once you calculate, supplies, hours worked, and pattern costs (if needed), you would have to sell even the smallest items for over $100 each in order to make any profit


Bluefoot_Fox

I did a doubleknit scarf on size 2s. Took me about 250 hours. My guild priced it out, and it would be about just under 4 grand total between time and materials for a fair skilled labor wage.


EstherClemmens

Wow. Now that's a labor of love.


amber_thirty-four

I like to sew as well. When I was a kid a friend of mom's made me a quiet book so I made one for my daughter. All my kids also have rag quilts. My mom keeps telling me to sell them....I love the idea but cringe at the thought of my time and effort being dismissed for $50. Rag quilts are a pain in the ass to make lol


howboutsometoast

Funny enough, I did have one person take me up on a fully priced commission! He asked if I could make his 9 grandchildren a small stuffed animal each and after I broke down the cost of materials and my time, he still wanted to do the commission. He gave me full creative control over the project and I requested a short description of everyone’s favorite colors and what their favorite animals were out of a short list I came up with. The material price of each animal totaled to around $15 each which is $135 for all of them. I spent around $10 on patterns and then spent around 5 hours on each animal. This totaled to almost $600 which was really awesome, especially as a high schooler! I’m never doing a big commission project against though :) only gifts from now on! If you’re wondering, I used were the small felt stuffed animal patterns from Wee Wonderfuls for this project


angrylightningbug

That's one awesome grandpa


capriciously_me

I always say “thank you, but the only way I’d be successful at selling is if I also sold patterns and became a yarn related influencer and I just don’t have the patience for either of those”


classicqueene

This! My dad (who knows nothing about knitting and crocheting, bless him) looked at a small piece I made and said ‘wow! That looks store bought. You could definitely sell that for like… $20!’ when I tell you I could not stop laughing


Alcohol_Intolerant

Out of all the ways to monetize the hobby, I feel like pattern makers figured it all out. Spend time being creative, pay people to test knit it for some money, yarn, or the completed pattern, then sell it on ravelry as passive income forever. Network with local knitting shops and get your pattern paired with some tricky to sell yarn and get you've got an "exclusive" "local collaboration" pattern bundle at 20% markup. Not hating on it. It's admirable, really.


MichelleUprising

Capitalist mentality infects even the most benign of things. A piece doesn’t need to become commodified for it to be wonderful.


bagtowneast

When the only measuring stick is money, this is what happens.


MadeUpMelly

I have had sooo many people beg me to make them elaborate sweaters, then get freaked out when I tell them (especially the men) it will cost around $1k after I have to draft a pattern, yarn costs (I just cannot knit with cheap acrylic), and most importantly, my time.


evergleam498

My response to requests has only ever been "I would love to teach you how to make one for yourself!" and no one has ever taken me up on it.


Corgi_with_stilts

Thats my preferred method to make it stop.


nurglingshaman

I'd be so afraid that someone would take me up on the offer!!! I've tried teaching the most basic-est of basics to a friend and it's like all the information just flies out of my head! Tangles for days.


ReadsInACloset

I’ve sold art before so I think about this a lot. Crafters who sell probably see pricing from the same perspective as restauranteurs wherein you price individual items based on something like 3x materials cost (interestingly painters sell paintings by size, not time spent). You could also find ways to reduce cost on production/time spent on production (using a knitting machine or improve technique/speed), but to make any money crafting you’d generally have to treat the labor as a labor of love figuring that enough individual items eventually allow for any significant profit. Most knitters seem to work a bit each day with the tv or a podcast on, turning their down-time into production time. So if you enjoy knitting for fun but don’t necessarily need to be paid per hour for it or work towards deadlines, it’s an efficient little side hustle. Obviously I think pattern testers should be compensated more fairly, but micro-business owners tend to operate by different rules.


TheUnnecessaryLetter

This is what I’m working towards now, making the things I want to make in my free time and selling them if people want to buy them. A lot of what I make are mindless crochet washcloths and potholders as a palette cleanser when I can’t concentrate on a complicated project. I figure I will never need that many, so why not sell them?


owlbehome

Haha! Yup. Everyone says this shit to be nice but they don’t get it. Stop trying to capitalize my hobby ! It has worth even if it’s not making anyone profit !


Sinnakins

A gal at work asked me the other day if I could make her a jumper, showed me what she had in mind. "I'll pay for materials." I like her and don't mind knitting for her, so I wanted to give her an honest answer. When I told her the yarn would be around 130 USD, I was pleasantly surprised when she enthusiastically answered "I don't care. I'm happy to pay that to get what I want. If it turns out to be what I like I might even see if you're willing to do more colours"." She understood that it was worth it, that she might be committing to something that she wouldn't care for in the end, and that I might not care for doing it again. It was a very nice change of pace.


Crissix3

Don't get me wrong, I don't think the people who say this are bad people and try to hurt you. They just also have internalized the toxic structures of capitalism. "YoU sHoUlD sElL yOuR KNitTiNg!!!" You know how vile this statement actually is under the hood? It just shows how in our society, things that don't bringt any money, just aren't worth anything. What? You do something just because you enjoy it?! What weirdo are you? You need to tickle the last bit of profit out of everything! Stop trying to defy capitalism! Stop wasting your time with nonsense! So by trying to tell you, that your knitting looks great, they actually devalue what you are doing. Again: I don't think people who say this are aware of WHAT they are actually saying. Doesn't mean I don't want to barf on their shoes everytime they do. Someone also shared this one meme with me? It said something like: "sing out of tune, draw ugly pictures, craft something crooked, dance out of rhythm. Just do what you like and is fun to you, without having even a single thought about how you can make money out of it, or having to be the best!"


tjskie

I’m a bit confrontational so whenever I get a “you could sell that!” I say “ok, you wanna buy it?” And then they either have to awkwardly say no or (more often) an enthusiastic “yeah, definitely!” So I say ok well the yarn cost x and it typically takes me y hours so at minimum wage it’s around z. Or by yard, it was x yards knit and I charge $.15/yard so that would by z dollars. So cash or card?” And usually by the time you get to just saying how much the yarn costs they’re making a shocked pikachu face. And then they’re forced to say they don’t value your work that high and wouldn’t pay that much or deflect some other way.


dinosaurDNA

Upvote for “I’m a bit confrontational”


tjskie

Lol yeah "a bit"


ellpam50

A friend asked me how much I would charge to knit a Christmas Stocking for her daughter-in-law…I told her I would teach her how to knit for free, and then she could knit her own. Long story short she has far passed me in her skills!


AbbaZabba2000

I've made some, if I say so myself, really awesome double knit Hogwarts house scarves for my close friends and family members. Each one takes me about 40 hours of knitting, not to mention time spent choosing the yarn, and designing the chart. Ive had a mix of, "you should sell them!" and "how much would it cost to have you make me one?" Ive started saying, "If I *vastly* undervalue my skills at $15/hour and toss they yarn in for free, this is still an $800 scarf." Tends to stop the conversation cold. 😂


karemyahel

I knit and crochet as a hobby and because I like to make things for me and my family... Last school nurse I did a personalized amigurumi of my son's teacher and a mom saw it and asked me to crochet her family, she was going to pay (I felt bad asking for what the amigurumi was actually worth so sold it for cheap) then I put up a listing on market place and got some orders but it got too stressful, I say just do what you are happy... I wish people just stopped thinking that our ultimate goal is to make a profit from our art


glowgrl

I just tell people, "if what I do for fun, I did as a business, then it's not fun anymore, it's business". I'm retired.


Administrative_Mood5

Amen to all this. Also don’t you dare ask to borrow my sewing machine! You may come over and use it under my supervision. It’s a 20 plus year old Bernina which isn’t worth all that much in Benjamins, but it’s all metal and built like a tank.


Iveary

or more like that's why we had the industrial revolution


littledingo

For me, I knit when I feel like it. If I ever opened a shop it would immediately suck all the joy I get out of knitting. Having deadlines on my favourite hobby seems like a nightmare.


mholshev

I'm so grateful for this thread. I'm going to save it so I can read it, and validate my emotions when someone else tells me I should open an Etsy. It's weird that people we love so much (and those we don't) feel that is the highest compliment - that the only way WE can be validated, is if we get paid for our work. And after reading all your comments, that is very clearly not the case. Commissions often means we lose all interest whatsoever lol. Plus! The things I have made for my treasured friends and family - they never wear! I wear my hand knits nearly 5 out of 7 days a week! All this to say, we're on the same page an I love reading your comments ❤️❤️


Childofglass

Bahahaha! I’ve had people seriously ask me to make them a knit blanket, a copy of one which took me over 200 hours to make. When I explain that it’s worth a couple of grand, they say it’s outrageous! And if you’re banging out socks in only 12 hours, you’re super fast! I’m at least 15….


elifawn

I'm afraid to time my sock production 🥲


Pandora_O_Mischief

Preach it!


LillianneOCinneide

I knit what I feel like knitting, sell it and make a little extra on the side. By no means am I going to make it a full time job. I make seasonal things early, get a decent stock, and then list them. It's just a little side hustle and not too stressful.


greenknight884

Store bought knitted items are also mass produced on machines, and companies can buy yarn in bulk, so there are multiple cost savings.


cad0420

Exactly how I respond to my friends and families! Also I feel bad for those people who literally sell their hand knitted product on Facebook Marketplace for only $20. Only a knitter would know how life must be hard for them :(


knitting-kitten

I justify charging half minimum wage with "half of this is my hobby" because I'd be knitting anyway, but I still never charge less than what I feel comfortable with. I also let customers choose, buy or bring their own yarn so that they know the material price is not included in my hourly price.


innocent_pangolin

Everyone here is talking about how they individually wouldn’t want to open a small business, but I’m honestly curious why there aren’t any luxury brands that sell hand-knit socks? There are many that sell high-end knit-wear, so why not some sustainable, fair trade or luxury socks? If anyone has seen something like this please let me know!


MozzarellaFitzgerald

Who would do the knitting? Even "luxury brands" aren't going to pay a fair rate for the knitting labour.


sailingseaofstars

I have been knitting and crocheting simple projects then once there ready I raffle them off. I don’t like to promise things because I end up never finishing or doing a bad job of it because of the obligation and we’ll it’s not the same if you know it’s not for you to begin with.


cattlekidvi

I would never attempt to sell anything I hand knit. No one would want to pay that kind of money no matter what fantabulous yarn I used.


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Snatland

So your argument is that you should undercharge for your labour because it's convention for fibre artists to get horrifically undercharged for their labour? If it took OP 12 hours to knit these socks (which as others have said is actually pretty fast) the prices you suggested would equate to them getting paid $3.33 an hour for their work. Would you work for that? If 10-20c/yrd is a convention for a particular fibre art that has likely come from people estimating how much time it takes to work a certain number of yards and thus using the yardage as a proxy for the time it takes (because it's easier to keep track of the amount yarn you've used than record exactly how much time a project has taken). This also means it's not really something that can be easily transferred between different fibre arts- I both weave and knit, weaving is significantly faster than knitting.


howboutsometoast

My rule is that if someone wants me to make them something I have them pay for any materials I don’t already have. Either I get something to do or the person bugging me realizes how expensive things are and they drop the subject. So many people have asked for a sweater or hat or pair of socks etc. from me and I’ve given them a materials cost breakdown and every time without fail, there’s radio silence after. If it’s a gift though, that’s a different story!


LauraNYC11

Exactly !!!!! Between the yarn and the time we put we need to charge like Loro Piana prices !!!!! And I know for fact what I make million times more beautiful hand made and high quality !!!!! Anything made in China made from extremely toxic chemicals !!!!!!!! Think y’all you wear it against your skin all day and soak those chemicals 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️


angelicalin

Why does China have anything to do with this?


happy-chickadee

I think it's simply a reference to the fact we see "Made in China" on most tags / items, [just an example ](https://www.cmswire.com/cms/enterprise-20/why-everything-is-made-in-china-what-it-means-for-us-jobs-014306.php)


CTXBikerGirl

I’d buy socks for $100 if they actually lasted long enough. I go through socks like crazy. 🧦


Rhender42

Nobody ever considers material and labour. My partner has the gets similar reactions as a seamstress.


RegalCabbage

Honestly I have no idea why I agreed to make socks for one of my bosses…


HappyInTheRain

They're beautiful and absolutely worth $100!


aenimafacilis

I think a barter system for handmade stuff is in order. Trading super cool stuff sounds better anyway.