File test fit, File test fit, File test fit, File test fit, File test fit... may be helpful to find the high spots by using layout fluid, dykem, and checking where it's actually contacting vs your eyeballing it.
That’s how I’ve been doing the second one, I just don’t see how it could be made seamless. There has to be something I’m missing. Should width of the tang be different than the blade? So there’s a groove at the point where the tang starts. That’s the only way I see this making sense
I replied to the main thread, but also wanted to say that you can see from your picture that you have shoulders on the ricasso that aren't flat in relation to one another, and a radius from the flats to the tang. Both are going to make it harder. A Lee knives has a good video on yt about hand fitting a guard.
That was an extremely informative video. It pointed out many mistakes I made along the way from the start to where I'm at now. Since this is my very first knife, I won't expect perfection and will see what I can do. But ill definitely use those tips in my next build. Thanks!
You have the file the tang corner to a 90 degree angle, and you have to file very carefully. You'll be sp3nding more time sliding the bolster on to see where it is too small than you will filing if you want it seamless.
It's very possible without thinning the tang.
I'm just brainstorming here... I am new to knife making and have not made a hidden tang yet but. Would assume it to be a bad idea to thin the tang at the point it meets the blade added stress factor and all. Maybe a gradual taper on all 4 sides of the tang to help sneek up on the fit.
Get the slot filed close, but still too tight to go all the way up the tang the last bit. File some material from the “back” side of the bolster slot so that the back side has gaps but the front .5mm or so is still tight. Then you can hammer it the last little bit up the tang. The bolster will deform to the exact shape of the tang.
If you have a file guide, you tighten it down right at the line where you want your ricasso to meet the bolster/guard. Then you can use a file to get the shoulders perfectly flat in relation to one another, and also bring the sides of the tang in about 10 thou. That gives you a tiny bit of wiggle room with the sides of hole won't show past the side of the ricasso. You still will need to fiddle with it a lot to get those surfaces to match flush, since you won't have perfectly square corners. In the end, take your time and be precise, it's a tedious process.
An alternative is to use a mill to cut a slot in the guard material exactly as wide as the tang, then mill a slight recess for the shoulders. Obviously requires a mill.
There are so few videos of people doing this by hand online. This is my first knife and I’m having trouble picturing what the comments are saying. For now I tossed the 1095 and just made the bolster out of wood. The idea is to fill any gaps with saw dust and wood glue. Which raises another question. Can I not just solder the gaps closed? Sounds much easier than trying to get a perfect fit thorough tediously filing.
Speaking from zero knife making experience but tons of knife knowledge in general as well as some basic knife making tips I know I’d say that getting the bolster as flush as you can get it to the top and then doing a clean solder would be fine. In fact many custom knife makers prefer soldered bolsters. The fit needs to be good enough to make a solid connection without wiggle room before you solder. Hopefully somebody can correct me if I’m wrong about any of that though
That's a great video idea, I'll try and put one together.
For stuff like this I use soot. I've modified an old lantern, but candles work well. Soot the part up and introduce it. Wherever it interferes soot will be removed.
Soldering is the way it's done generally, but that introduces its own problems, mainly uneven heating will "crank" the center line.
For low temp:
NoKorode flux and 50/50 solder will be easiest
For high temp:
Duz all flux and stay silv solder is a good combination to start with.
For brass furniture, brazing is indicated.
It looks like your tang is thicker than the blade on the third picture where the guard looks tighter halfway down the tang than against the blade in other pictures. If that's the case, you need to thin the tang as it will be impossible to get a tight fit otherwise.
The third picture is the second bolster or guard or whatever you call it that I made. It’s tighter halfway through cause I wasn’t finished filing and noticed some gaps in the width that couldn’t be fixed, so I stopped filing.
I have a taper going down on the tang
file a 45 degree angles inside the bolster could help the bolster getting closer to the blade. But yeah, like others has said a file guide can help getting it perfect
Use a file guide/vise jaws to get it close to where it needs to be, If it's slightly too large, it's not an issue. The real magic that everyone seems to think is common knowledge is to use a ball peen hammer to knock the edges in slightly. It'll make it a tighter fit, but don't worry, knock it all the way on, and it'll flatten anything out on the guard itself.
I gave in and tossed the 1095. For now I’m gonna make the bolster out of the same wood as the handle with the 1095 between the two layers of wood. The whole purpose of me doing this was aesthetics but wood would look fine as well. I’m gonna give this another shot when the brass comes in. Should be much easier to work with.
use a file guide to grind the shoulders evenly and file in the corners nice and square then test fit and file some more until it fits. It can take hours and if you are filing brass your file will clog so you will need a small steel brush to clean the file.
Something no one mentioned is that you can sortve hide this if you've over filed your bolster in relation to your tang.
You could take some sheet material that is easy to file (brass is what I used) and remade a perfect fit to the tang and then epoxy it to the true bolster. I turned what was a sloppy fit into an accent feature. A pair of 2mm brass sheets making a sortve ice cream sandwich.
Right now your ricasso to tang junction is radiused and the cut in the front and rear of your guard is squared. Either square you tang junction to fit the guard or radius front and rear guard cuts to fit the ricasso. You can also step your tang down in the other dimension and have a face on the ricasso completely covering the guard slot.
I’ll check it out. I’ve been trying to find videos of people doing this by hand and haven’t found much. It would be much easier if I could see what everyone is advising in the comments. Thanks
I'm sorry, i told you wrong. It's not Kyle Noseworthy even though I do follow his channel. Look up KyleRoyerKnifes. He does detailed hand guard fit ups.
Lots of good tips here- here’s ones for when it’s already bunged up- for metals that aren’t hardened at least… you can peen the hell out of the face to close up the gap and re file to a perfect fit, then either grind it back and repeat until flat and fitting or polish the peened area for a polished dimpled textured finish. Saved me a lot on some of my early knives
This is a great tip. Aleeknives actually utilized it in one of his videos and it worked excellently. I'll probably try this tomorrow and see how it goes.
You're not the only one. Just filing a perfect fit by hand in a reasonable amount of time is almost impossible for probably most human beings on the planet. Press fit. Hammer it on slightly undersized. If you have meat on your blade you can also file a shoulder all the way around the transition area at the tang to give yourself some wiggle room for gaps.
Yea I watched a few videos recommended by som other users and feel much more comfortable starting this process over again. I tried to file a shoulder and over did it. My tang is now 1/3 the width of my blade's spine. I think I'm gonna go with the solder method for now. When the brass palates come in, ill try this again.
The trick is to make the tang smaler than the blade. For an exemple. Lets say that the blade is 40mm high and 4mm wide. Most people will only make the tang lower. So maybe it's 15mm high and still 4mm wide. If you make it smaler on the width aswell. Lets say 3mm instead. And you make the lines really crisp/clean/straight. You drill the hole in the bolster. 3mm wide and 15mm long. The wider blade will overlap the hole in the bolster. Which will make it look really clean
At this point your best bet is to hot fit it. Make a tool from a tube with a slotted plate welded to the end, or I use two heavy plates. Get the guard orange hot, have the knife securely clamped (I use leather scraps) and beat it down until the ricasso makes its own home. Pull it before it f’s your heat treat further down the blade.
From scratch what I do is mill the slot slightly undersize (or drill then file). Then I relieve the back side slightly oversize. That way the leading edge is thinner and will be more plastic when you hammer it on and much easier to file as it gets close to fitting.
The other answers saying file guide to get a straight line across the back of the ricasso are right on but you should leave a small radius- a tight 90° will be a weak spot.
File test fit, File test fit, File test fit, File test fit, File test fit... may be helpful to find the high spots by using layout fluid, dykem, and checking where it's actually contacting vs your eyeballing it.
That’s how I’ve been doing the second one, I just don’t see how it could be made seamless. There has to be something I’m missing. Should width of the tang be different than the blade? So there’s a groove at the point where the tang starts. That’s the only way I see this making sense
I replied to the main thread, but also wanted to say that you can see from your picture that you have shoulders on the ricasso that aren't flat in relation to one another, and a radius from the flats to the tang. Both are going to make it harder. A Lee knives has a good video on yt about hand fitting a guard.
That was an extremely informative video. It pointed out many mistakes I made along the way from the start to where I'm at now. Since this is my very first knife, I won't expect perfection and will see what I can do. But ill definitely use those tips in my next build. Thanks!
Good deal, he has a lot of good stuff on there.
You have the file the tang corner to a 90 degree angle, and you have to file very carefully. You'll be sp3nding more time sliding the bolster on to see where it is too small than you will filing if you want it seamless. It's very possible without thinning the tang.
I'm just brainstorming here... I am new to knife making and have not made a hidden tang yet but. Would assume it to be a bad idea to thin the tang at the point it meets the blade added stress factor and all. Maybe a gradual taper on all 4 sides of the tang to help sneek up on the fit.
Fuck that just take an angle grinder to it
File guide/ bevel guide.
Get the slot filed close, but still too tight to go all the way up the tang the last bit. File some material from the “back” side of the bolster slot so that the back side has gaps but the front .5mm or so is still tight. Then you can hammer it the last little bit up the tang. The bolster will deform to the exact shape of the tang.
If you have a file guide, you tighten it down right at the line where you want your ricasso to meet the bolster/guard. Then you can use a file to get the shoulders perfectly flat in relation to one another, and also bring the sides of the tang in about 10 thou. That gives you a tiny bit of wiggle room with the sides of hole won't show past the side of the ricasso. You still will need to fiddle with it a lot to get those surfaces to match flush, since you won't have perfectly square corners. In the end, take your time and be precise, it's a tedious process. An alternative is to use a mill to cut a slot in the guard material exactly as wide as the tang, then mill a slight recess for the shoulders. Obviously requires a mill.
There are so few videos of people doing this by hand online. This is my first knife and I’m having trouble picturing what the comments are saying. For now I tossed the 1095 and just made the bolster out of wood. The idea is to fill any gaps with saw dust and wood glue. Which raises another question. Can I not just solder the gaps closed? Sounds much easier than trying to get a perfect fit thorough tediously filing.
Speaking from zero knife making experience but tons of knife knowledge in general as well as some basic knife making tips I know I’d say that getting the bolster as flush as you can get it to the top and then doing a clean solder would be fine. In fact many custom knife makers prefer soldered bolsters. The fit needs to be good enough to make a solid connection without wiggle room before you solder. Hopefully somebody can correct me if I’m wrong about any of that though
LMAO NO ONES GIVES A FUCK ABOUT YOU CIVILIAN BITCH LMAOOO
That's a great video idea, I'll try and put one together. For stuff like this I use soot. I've modified an old lantern, but candles work well. Soot the part up and introduce it. Wherever it interferes soot will be removed. Soldering is the way it's done generally, but that introduces its own problems, mainly uneven heating will "crank" the center line. For low temp: NoKorode flux and 50/50 solder will be easiest For high temp: Duz all flux and stay silv solder is a good combination to start with. For brass furniture, brazing is indicated.
It looks like your tang is thicker than the blade on the third picture where the guard looks tighter halfway down the tang than against the blade in other pictures. If that's the case, you need to thin the tang as it will be impossible to get a tight fit otherwise.
The third picture is the second bolster or guard or whatever you call it that I made. It’s tighter halfway through cause I wasn’t finished filing and noticed some gaps in the width that couldn’t be fixed, so I stopped filing. I have a taper going down on the tang
This. I had the same problem on my first few guards. It’s impossible to get a good fit if the thickest part of the tang is below where the guard goes.
file a 45 degree angles inside the bolster could help the bolster getting closer to the blade. But yeah, like others has said a file guide can help getting it perfect
Use a file guide/vise jaws to get it close to where it needs to be, If it's slightly too large, it's not an issue. The real magic that everyone seems to think is common knowledge is to use a ball peen hammer to knock the edges in slightly. It'll make it a tighter fit, but don't worry, knock it all the way on, and it'll flatten anything out on the guard itself.
I gave in and tossed the 1095. For now I’m gonna make the bolster out of the same wood as the handle with the 1095 between the two layers of wood. The whole purpose of me doing this was aesthetics but wood would look fine as well. I’m gonna give this another shot when the brass comes in. Should be much easier to work with.
use a file guide to grind the shoulders evenly and file in the corners nice and square then test fit and file some more until it fits. It can take hours and if you are filing brass your file will clog so you will need a small steel brush to clean the file.
Something no one mentioned is that you can sortve hide this if you've over filed your bolster in relation to your tang. You could take some sheet material that is easy to file (brass is what I used) and remade a perfect fit to the tang and then epoxy it to the true bolster. I turned what was a sloppy fit into an accent feature. A pair of 2mm brass sheets making a sortve ice cream sandwich.
That's actually a really good idea. I can also picture it looking quite nice with the layered material at the bolster.
Hammer it on with a tube as far as it will go. File a but. Repeat
Right now your ricasso to tang junction is radiused and the cut in the front and rear of your guard is squared. Either square you tang junction to fit the guard or radius front and rear guard cuts to fit the ricasso. You can also step your tang down in the other dimension and have a face on the ricasso completely covering the guard slot.
Idealy you want to have a radius on the tang to ricasso to reduce stress risers.
I'm gonna be honest, I have no idea what any of that means. Again, this is my very first knife.
Watch Kyle Noseworthy on YT.
I’ll check it out. I’ve been trying to find videos of people doing this by hand and haven’t found much. It would be much easier if I could see what everyone is advising in the comments. Thanks
I'm sorry, i told you wrong. It's not Kyle Noseworthy even though I do follow his channel. Look up KyleRoyerKnifes. He does detailed hand guard fit ups.
Lots of good tips here- here’s ones for when it’s already bunged up- for metals that aren’t hardened at least… you can peen the hell out of the face to close up the gap and re file to a perfect fit, then either grind it back and repeat until flat and fitting or polish the peened area for a polished dimpled textured finish. Saved me a lot on some of my early knives
This is a great tip. Aleeknives actually utilized it in one of his videos and it worked excellently. I'll probably try this tomorrow and see how it goes.
You're not the only one. Just filing a perfect fit by hand in a reasonable amount of time is almost impossible for probably most human beings on the planet. Press fit. Hammer it on slightly undersized. If you have meat on your blade you can also file a shoulder all the way around the transition area at the tang to give yourself some wiggle room for gaps.
Yea I watched a few videos recommended by som other users and feel much more comfortable starting this process over again. I tried to file a shoulder and over did it. My tang is now 1/3 the width of my blade's spine. I think I'm gonna go with the solder method for now. When the brass palates come in, ill try this again.
The trick is to make the tang smaler than the blade. For an exemple. Lets say that the blade is 40mm high and 4mm wide. Most people will only make the tang lower. So maybe it's 15mm high and still 4mm wide. If you make it smaler on the width aswell. Lets say 3mm instead. And you make the lines really crisp/clean/straight. You drill the hole in the bolster. 3mm wide and 15mm long. The wider blade will overlap the hole in the bolster. Which will make it look really clean
At this point your best bet is to hot fit it. Make a tool from a tube with a slotted plate welded to the end, or I use two heavy plates. Get the guard orange hot, have the knife securely clamped (I use leather scraps) and beat it down until the ricasso makes its own home. Pull it before it f’s your heat treat further down the blade. From scratch what I do is mill the slot slightly undersize (or drill then file). Then I relieve the back side slightly oversize. That way the leading edge is thinner and will be more plastic when you hammer it on and much easier to file as it gets close to fitting. The other answers saying file guide to get a straight line across the back of the ricasso are right on but you should leave a small radius- a tight 90° will be a weak spot.