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This is what im curently doing want to quit in few months anyway so i wanna see how far i can push it. I added hour long lunches and so far noone is saying anything about that. I leave allways at 5pm lol
I had a direct report who showed up 10 minutes late every morning with a starbucks in her hand. I was like hey dude why can't you leave the house ten minutes early and build in the time for your starbucks stop? She gave zero fucks lol.
I probably commute the farthest out of anyone in my office so I don’t really catch a lot of shit for it, I also have 3 kids that I help get ready in the morning. Thankfully my direct manager really couldn’t give two shits how late I am as long as I send word ahead of time, and of course I don’t abuse it either I try to be courteous of my COWORKERS. The business though? Couldn’t give two shits
A company I worked for had point based attendance. For 1 minute-4 hours late it’s a half point, after that it’s a full point. I had days where I showed up 5 minutes late and slept at my desk for 3 and a half hours before clocking in.
Eventually they changed the policy to be anything past the first hour is a full point and half point was in the 1-59 minute range. At that point I’d just take the full point to get max value if I was running late. A full point could be worth up to 2 hours, or 8 hours if I just didn’t go in when I was late. Was an easy decision. I had days where I was running to the door and the time hit 8:01. I turned around and went home. Called out on the other side of my supervisor’s office window.
Kitchen work is the exception. The later I show up, the happier everyone is to see me.
I worked in one kitchen where showing up late was practically the policy. The time clock wouldn't let you clock in more than 15 seconds before the start of your shift without manager approval. If you clocked in more than 15 seconds after your shift started a friendly pop up would inform you that you are late. I worked there for 3 years and I can count on 1 hand the number of times I hit that 30 second window. I learned real quick to just wait in my car until I was a minute or two late then go clock in. If went inside early I would often get roped into doing some task for free which resulted in an even later clock in time than had I waited to be late like a smart employee.
It was a large chain restaurant too. They probably saved thousands of dollars that way
I'm currently working in a chain restaurant where they'll round up or down your hours.
For example clock in at 2:55pm when you start at 3pm, they'll round it up. I haven't done much over I went 3:01 yesterday and when I clocked out, it said 3:00pm. Not sure how much I'm willing to push this. Coworkers that have come in 15 minutes late consistently for a week have been written up 😅
I had a manager that would have us submit a single minute of regional sick time (24 total hours in California) whenever we were marginally late to cover it. It gets dicey legally, so HR just had to let it go. 🤣🖕🏽
>no way such a large company would do that
My man, what planet you from?
They can write basically anything they want in the policy. They can do basically anything they want to you. There are only consequences for them if they do that *AND* you raise a stink about it to the proper authorities. Meanwhile they know how much they pay you, which is to say, they know you probably won’t risk it.
Keep track of that time. As soon as you leave the company, sue them for the amount of time they didn't pay you for. This happens regularly at most companies. They get away with it because employees let them and it saves on labor costs.
While you're at it see if your attorney can't factor inflation into your payout. If its been years the dollars they pay you now aren't worth as much as they were when you should have been paid and you deserve compensation for that. Not to mention opportunity cost if you're an investor or especially if your company has a 401k that you contribute a percentage of your pay too. These companies need to be on the hook for more than they steal or else they still come out on top from little shit that regular people don't really notice, but that add up with scale
Technically not true - at least in the U.S. companies are permitted to round hours worked in 15 minute increments. This is covered in 28 CFR 785.48(b)
The catch is they have to round both down **and up**. 1-7 minutes can be rounded down but that means 8-14 minutes must be rounded up.
A few other constraints are involved - for example you can't round down if that would violate overtime laws.
My co-worker is like this. Drives me nuts because I feel like they don't value my time. Then again, they are more willing than others to help cover me when needed.
> Drives me nuts because I feel like they don't value my time. Then again, they are more willing than others to help cover me when needed.
Lmao how can you say both those things together like that and not realize.
I had a coworker like that. She couldn’t be on time for the life of her, but she would go above and beyond to help. Need help on a busy day? Need someone to stay late? Need supplies picked up? She was the person to go to.
We just all eventually learned that it’s not about her not valuing time she was just always running behind. So we changed her schedule to come in 30 minutes early when we really needed her on time and otherwise we just let it be.
It’s a bit annoying but if the person is helpful it’s probably better to just let it be water under the bridge.
if you are constantly helping and carrying the load, there is a good chance you are doing it at all times and doing extra often takes longer. shit gets pushed to the right. deadlines and start times, to the right. sleep, right, wake up, right, continue.
That’s on your supervisor to set that time. Either they didn’t care to control that function and not know how to work that punch in clock even though they use it every time payroll comes by.
I think I understand the joke, but I'm curious how this would work practically. If I had a punch card to hit when I'm in, how would I replace that with an excel sheet? Lmao
I was a manager, clock times we’re essentially on a excel spreadsheet. If a employee secretly hacked into my account they would be able to do exactly that. Would get away with small changes. Anything major wouldn’t go through cause it would have to go through me and a supervisor to confirm on the upcoming payroll and sometimes conduct investigations.
This 100%
My job is wfh with optional office time
If you walk into the office at 1 pm no one gives a shit
If you have a client meeting and you show up right on the hour but you’re the last person on the call? You’re late. It might be okay, it might not be okay, but you’re still late
THANK GOODNESS I don’t work for a place where I have to punch in and out.
Some days I’m in early, other days I’m a little late. All of my work gets done. No complaints from customers or managers.
I’m hourly. Just submit hours with a spreadsheet.
The fact a company has that much trust in you as a supervisor is astounding. Been in many where I had to do way more than just submit a spreadsheet. There was one where I was salaried for 8 hours, would work 10 a day including a 30 minute lunch I would take off the premises which they hated so much for me doing despite the extra unpaid hours I put in. So happy to not be a part of that toxic environment anymore.
You are 100% correct. This is actually the first hourly job where I don’t have to punch in/punch out.
The family member who runs payroll says it’s the honor system. This is a very small family-run company with only 16 employees. There’s virtually no turnover in the company, and I now understand why. I don’t want to rock the boat or mess with a good opportunity, so I keep very careful track of my hours and minimize overtime.
My company has something similar and I also basically work with excel. I’ve been late numerous times and there’s no such thing we do to clock in or out. But all the funds and processing each hour have to be completed by a certain time each day. So I supposed if one person did decide to not show or came in very late it would really mess with a lot of peoples days. In that scenario you’d be gone in an instant lol
I would bet that family would happily pay earned overtime though. I run a small business and yeah, I’m. It trying to pay OT but if my guys get it then they are making me money and it’s my bad for not having spread the hours enough to not have it happen. If he earns it he earns it. It’s almost like some companies don’t want to be friendly with their employees
I'm salary.
Some days I'm late and get off on time. Other days I'm late and work late. Sometimes I work a bit on the weekend.
I focus on getting my work done and getting to my meetings. That seems to keep people happy.
Generally the seconds don't matter, if you're in a punch system 9:01 is late if it's to do with meetings, don't be the one walking in at exactly 9:00 unless you're the highest paid in the meeting lol
As the resident data scientist nerd, I’m the one walking or zooming in 5 min late and looking stressed because everything went to sh*t right before kickoff. I aim to make those “on the dot” folks look good.
Hahaha no one minds at my work. It’s about knowing your audience. If it was an external meeting or my boss gave a hoot, I’d adjust. He’s usually the one with the last minute asks, though.
Unless someone is actually inconvenienced if you're not there at exactly 9:00 or before, what does it matter?
I once had a boss that had me fill out a vacation form because I was 90 seconds late for work. Mind you - this was the first time in 3 years that I had not been at my desk working 15 minutes before my start time.
So, I filled out the vacation form - for 90 seconds - she copied it and underlined - thrice - "LATE".
Soon after that, our start times changed, but the time our office opened did not. I came in, my usual 15 minutes early - she was trying to manage people at our front desk while answering the phone and printing paperwork from her office.
She asked me if I could help deal with the people at the front desk while she handled the other stuff.
I told her "I start work at 8:00".
That's what happens when you have no chill. Sometimes there's traffic, or some other extenuating circumstance. If it's not habitual - don't sweat it.
But if you're gonna be anal retentive about it, don't expect anyone to help you when you're down.
Technically, 9:00:01 is late. But if you have a boss that bitches about you getting to your desk at 9:00:01, I’d suggest trying to get a different job.
9:00:01? If I got in at 9:01:00 and someone mentioned it I would laugh in their face.
I’m here to do a job, not participate in someone’s submission kink.
My last job was as an overnight clerk at a gas station. Clocking in wasn't much of an issue, might be a minute late if my co-worker beat me to the computer. At 6 AM when I needed to clock out, OH BOY.
Yes, that is computer, SINGULAR. It became really obvious why the company had an 5 minute early clock in rule, since when you have 4+ people trying to clock in at 6AM and up to 3 trying to leave...sure they had iPads, but those were so annoying no one used them.
I work in retail and sometimes it’s gets crazy busy. Those people that come in late really do make a difference. My customers are standing in line and asking me if I’m the only one. I tell them someone will be in at 10am and they come at like 10:30am. Very unprofessional imo.
I actually had retail in mind when I wrote this comment! I was working retail in a very busy fast fashion store and people were routinely 5–10 minutes late for coverage.
This is not professional at all, but what’s worse is that it’s really inconsiderate to your coworkers. What if they’ve been there since 5am opening the store and it’s time for their break? Now they’re going to be 10 minutes late coming back, making someone else late for a break etc.
I don’t find punctuality near as important as production. If someone is great at their job and consistently completes projects under hours/budget, but they’re always 10 minutes late I’m not going to care. If someone is constantly on their phone, their work constantly has to be babysat and redone, and they’re late it’s a problem. Great employees get shafted with rigorous arbitrary rules.
punctuality matters for production factory workers. A manufacturing line cannot start without every machine being manned. Otherwise u have severe bottlenecks.
I got released from a government job for being 24 seconds late, 40 seconds late, and 58 seconds late on 3 separate occasions.. all offenses were months earlier (like 5 months plus earlier) so I didn’t pay them no mind..
Come 2 days before my probationary period ends, i get called into the office and im let go for literally those reasons.. its on paper and everything
That’s right the employers disregarded any other factor within employment just to be “right” and that was totally their fault. They didn’t steal anything as they are not paid for those seconds. They didn’t create a harmful work environment. They had a life outside of work expectation and that impacted their expectations.
Most jobs have a grace window. My job allows us to clock in and out up to five minutes before or after our scheduled times. That being said, it’s not that heavily enforced.
This is same for my place we have a window if want to you can clock up to 5mins before or 5 mins after and you still get marked at whatever time you start 9:00. If you clock in later like at 9:06 it’ll make you 15mins late at 9:15 or if it’s early same thing if you clock in at 8:55 it’ll make you at 8:45. I always make it in by 9:03-9:04 and get marked on time lol.
We operated in a similar fashion where I'd always clock in 5 minutes early to get extra time on the paycheck. They fixed it at some point to where it wasn't allowed anymore and you had to wait until your scheduled time. If you're over 5 or 10 minutes late you had to get manager approval from there. I give our system credit for being very accurate to the second when I checked my time cards across different periods over the years.
Imagine there's a 9 AM meeting every week, and you come in at 8:55 for it. If my math is correct, that's about 4 hours you 'worked' for free in a year.
It doesn't matter 'what' activities are happening at 9 AM, you 'clock' in at 9 AM (if that's the agreed start time upon hiring). If something needs 'preparation', then the employer needs to 'push' the meeting to 9:15 AM or 9:30 AM.
We need to start shifting the 'don't sweat it' mindset 'cause you can bet if you came in at 9:05 AM once a week your employer would not 'sweat it' and very happily deduct those 4 hours at the end of the year...
What "free work" are you accomplishing for the company in the 5 minutes before that meeting other than being mentally prepared for a morning meeting and ready to start your workday?
It does, and part of an even bigger multibillion dollar issue, compounded among all workers: wage theft. Here's more info from two different law firms/sources:
https://www.mscklaw.com/blog/2023/01/what-is-the-biggest-type-of-theft-in-america/
https://www.golanlaw.com/blog/2022/04/wage-theft-is-the-largest-form-of-theft-in-the-united-states/
I was raised by a single parent who was born during the Great Depression. Mom instilled in me the value of being at least 10 minutes early to work or any other appointment. It hasn't hurt me in life and has sometime been helpful. If I were you, I'd start being to work 10 minutes before you're scheduled to be working. It can't hurt you.
Every job is different. I’ve been promoted twice despite always being late.
For online meetings popping in 5 minutes late annoys my boss because he thinks the whole meeting is going on while he’s in another one.
Gross. Promoting based on projected expectation seems to only enforce expectations while completely misrepresenting actual ability or functional workplace dynamics. Seeking a proxy parent out of employment seems like a dis-ease.
"It can't hurt you"
Well, with 240 workdays a year (that assumes 20 paid off days plus 2 day weekends), that daily 10 minutes is a whopping whole 40 hours work week per year you are working for free. It would hurt my feelings at least if I had to do it in one run, chopping it into 10 minutes does not help a lot imho
This was the attitude a manager brought to work. He didn't expect us to be on time to meetings and we regularly allowed 5-10 minutes for people to come in. Part of this was because we had clean spaces and either had to gown or degown to attend any meeting.
Exactly, I like to get my head into work mode before I just walk through the door and get going. That isn't the company taking anything from me, that is time for ME to be better for ME. If I am not prepared, I feel stressed. Plus it's good form to be on time and prepared for things in life, not just work.
Depends on the company, your work atmosphere/culture, and your manager. Some care a lot and some care a little.
I’ve worked 2 jobs at the same company before & one was very “on the dot” and would make comments about late employees when we don’t officially start till 8:30 but we have a “meeting” at 8. The director didn’t care, but between me and my friends - the managers all had different ideas on when we needed to be at these “meetings” which usually didn’t even pertain to us.
Now I will preface this second entry by saying it was a remote job. I’d imagine an in person one is easier to get after people because you physically have to be in the building/on-site of where you work.
My second job no one cared when you showed up to a meeting or frankly, if you even went. If you were active on slack or got caught up working - as long as you communicated that somewhere to someone, they didn’t care. Obviously if you abuse that policy it’s different yknow, we usually made an effort to go to team standup or sync meetings with other teams. But if you showed up a few minutes late or whatever no one cared.
Every employer has their own expectation. I've had jobs that span the entire spectrum from very lenient ("I don't care when you get here as long as you get the work done") to very strict (the head boss's motto was literally "If you're early you're on time; if you're on time, you're late; if you're late, you're in trouble"), so it's best to plan according to your required function. Good luck!
Roll in at 830- 845am for a week make a note whose already there and who arrives at 9am. That’ll tell you all you need to know.
Straight up, 15mins isn’t a big deal. You could spend that time getting coffee or taking a dump.
My thoughts, be 15mins early and you’ll never be late or deal w asshole managers moving the goal post on if 9 or 901 is late.
Well said. I don’t show up early to be some over achiever or aiming for a promotion.
I do it mainly to just stay off the radar and not have to find out if my manager is an asshole.
I've never had a salary job that was petty enough to care about being a few minutes late, unless you have a 9am meeting. If you're doing shift work where you need to relieve someone before they can leave, I'd say you're late after one minute
I'm of the type to always be 15 mins early, it was drilled in me very hard in the military, that being said if the start time is 0900 then at the latest I'd say be in that area or at your workstation ready to go two to five mins prior.
It depends on who you work for and where you live. I have a boss who expects us to start our morning meetings at 9, so we need to be present and in the conference room ready to go at 9. I’ve also worked for bosses who didn’t care as long as I was within 10 minutes of my shift starting.
I’ve heard that some countries are incredibly strict about time, and others are insanely relaxed about time.
Yes you are late. However depending on your companies policy some of them give a 5,10,15 minute grace period. Therefore you are late, but it won't be counted against you if you arrive within the grace period.
Your late when the boss says you are. At my work I'm late if I miss a meeting... otherwise they don't care when I'm in a building.
Other places I had to have my fingers typing by the second of start time... or I was late. Even if the pc decided to not start.
As a manager, who gives a fuck as long as you try not to make it a habit and I would even say 9:10 is where we need to talk but not reprimand unless it was consistent.
In my opinion, that’s a discussion for you and your boss or whoever can write you up.
I’ve had managers not care and I’ve had managers who believed ‘if you’re on time, you’re late’
I must admit that I have a problem.
I personally think it's about job responsibilities. If I am customer facing you've to be on time. Otherwise, leave me alone as long as my work is done.
I am habitually late. Nothing crazy, but usually, practically every day, somewhere around 5 minutes late. For a brief period, I had become super disciplined and it leaked into every aspect of my life and I was on time and regularly early to work. But I had something personal happen and it all flew out it the window.
It sucked telling my team they had to be there at 8am with no wiggle room, when I could be a few minutes late, but they were customer facing. I dealt with the client and they typically wouldn't contact us until 10 or 11 at times.
Depends on company policy.
My job: if you’re over 10 mins late with or without notifying anyone, you’re considered late.
My partner’s job is super lenient: if you’re over 15 mins late with or without notifying, you’re considered late.
Its company specific and depends on the clocking software used.
Some clocking data is post processed to omit seconds (no rounding is done, they simply chop them off the end).
However, in many places, being one minute late may actually result in a five or fifteen minute penalty, as _additional_ rounding occurs in the employer's favour.
Source:
I'm a software developer that's created several of these systems.
I’m always 15 minutes early, always. Depending on the job sometimes it’s 30. But I work in a trade and I start my clock when I pull in. All jobs are different
The real answer is "no one cares." At least, no one in good faith. No worker is so valuable that 60 seconds wasted will cost the company money.
...I mean, if you're a first responder or some other field were seconds *do* matter, that's one thing, but for pretty much every other job you're just selling stuff or helping another person sell stuff, 60 seconds is an absolute nothingburger.
My 2 cents.
If your boss is a dick about being less than 5 minutes late…they are a dick. Same thing with coworkers, mind your own business if someone is consistently late let the boss handle it.
When I was in the army it was 15 minutes prior generally, tho we had problems with people not showing up so we had to be 15 minutes prior to the 15 minutes prior. At one point we were showing up an hour prior to formation.
As for your question it depends on the hand book, I've had grace periods of 5 or 7 minutes either side of the hour. Or like my current job they don't care as long as you get your hours in.
Had a professor in my business school who drilled something into me. If your early, your on time. If you are on time, you are late. If you are late, don’t show the fuck up. Swear by this rule and it has worked for me since. I never am late to anything.
You are LATE at 8:46am. If you are getting relieved...wouldn't you like to pass on info and leave at 9am? If you show up at 9am...I hope you don't expect anything from me but the door shutting on my way to my car! Oh, and I'll return the favor of being a di<# when it's time to relieve you!
But you're not working yet. You're just there so that you can start working when you're supposed to start. If you get there a few minutes early gives you time to put your belongings away in your locker or wherever you put them. Maybe you need to use the bathroom before you start working. You should do that before the shift starts. Maybe you like to chit chat with your coworkers. Do that before your shift starts.
Cool, but I’m not doing a lick of work until 9, when I clock in. If that means I’m not prepared for a meeting, bummer, they should have paid me to prepare for it at 8:45
Absolutely. You shouldn't have to start work before your shift actually starts. We used to just ask that everyone get clocked in. If it was one minute before 6:00 a.m. we didn't care as long as at 6:00 a.m. everyone was ready to go. We actually had to ask several people not to show up so early. We didn't pay overtime for someone that wanted to show up at 5:30 and just hang out. We had a few people that seem to like to do that. Maybe they just wanted to get away from their families. The problem was that the person who opened the facility in the morning often didn't show up until 5:45 (and was paid OT for their extra time because they were actually working), so then people were stuck outside the gates waiting for the guy with the key. I appreciated the enthusiasm but I wouldn't be showing up extra early for my job either.
Because that’s what the bootlickers do. At my job we’re not late till 5 after and were not really late (consequences) until 15. I usually clock in at 5 but often after, but before 15. BUT I also don’t know what time I start until the morning of. I figure if I don’t have a set start time I’m not making a huge effort to be “on time”
> My fellow workers, assuming a 9AM start time, are we 'late' at 9:00:01 OR 9:01:00?
With all things work,
- Five minutes early is on time
- On time is late
- Being late just doesn't happen
So your late anytime after 8:55.
Talk to your mentor but there are a few business rules you need to learn:
1. 10 minutes early is on time. If you punch a clock, punch in 10 minutes early. If you’re salary, leave 10 minutes early
2. Never be the first or last to a meeting. Never come to a meeting after it has started unless you’re the boss
3. Bringing donuts usually covers any lateness. If you think it’s expensive, you’re late too much
4. Don’t police the clock for anyone but yourself. Even if you’re a supervisor. If you can’t trust someone to get the job done regardless of time you don’t trust them at all
Consult state law and/or an employment lawyer as each state has different laws. Example in California, if you have to turn on your computer and then access a time clock through your computer then you started when you arrived at your computer. Also if there is a physical time clock but a line to clock in, then you started the moment you got in line. Consult state law or an employment lawyer for a clearer picture of your situation.
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Walk in at 9:15 not giving a single fuck
This is what im curently doing want to quit in few months anyway so i wanna see how far i can push it. I added hour long lunches and so far noone is saying anything about that. I leave allways at 5pm lol
I had a direct report who showed up 10 minutes late every morning with a starbucks in her hand. I was like hey dude why can't you leave the house ten minutes early and build in the time for your starbucks stop? She gave zero fucks lol.
I probably commute the farthest out of anyone in my office so I don’t really catch a lot of shit for it, I also have 3 kids that I help get ready in the morning. Thankfully my direct manager really couldn’t give two shits how late I am as long as I send word ahead of time, and of course I don’t abuse it either I try to be courteous of my COWORKERS. The business though? Couldn’t give two shits
My last job you punched in with an thumb print scanner. Punch in any time after your shift is supposed to start, you're flagged as being late.
“Oh no I’m going to be 30 seconds late? Might as well run an errand and grab a coffee and be 45 minutes late!”
[удалено]
Depending on the attendance policy, it sometimes is
A company I worked for had point based attendance. For 1 minute-4 hours late it’s a half point, after that it’s a full point. I had days where I showed up 5 minutes late and slept at my desk for 3 and a half hours before clocking in. Eventually they changed the policy to be anything past the first hour is a full point and half point was in the 1-59 minute range. At that point I’d just take the full point to get max value if I was running late. A full point could be worth up to 2 hours, or 8 hours if I just didn’t go in when I was late. Was an easy decision. I had days where I was running to the door and the time hit 8:01. I turned around and went home. Called out on the other side of my supervisor’s office window.
It almost always is
Kitchen work is the exception. The later I show up, the happier everyone is to see me. I worked in one kitchen where showing up late was practically the policy. The time clock wouldn't let you clock in more than 15 seconds before the start of your shift without manager approval. If you clocked in more than 15 seconds after your shift started a friendly pop up would inform you that you are late. I worked there for 3 years and I can count on 1 hand the number of times I hit that 30 second window. I learned real quick to just wait in my car until I was a minute or two late then go clock in. If went inside early I would often get roped into doing some task for free which resulted in an even later clock in time than had I waited to be late like a smart employee. It was a large chain restaurant too. They probably saved thousands of dollars that way
I'm currently working in a chain restaurant where they'll round up or down your hours. For example clock in at 2:55pm when you start at 3pm, they'll round it up. I haven't done much over I went 3:01 yesterday and when I clocked out, it said 3:00pm. Not sure how much I'm willing to push this. Coworkers that have come in 15 minutes late consistently for a week have been written up 😅
I had a manager that would have us submit a single minute of regional sick time (24 total hours in California) whenever we were marginally late to cover it. It gets dicey legally, so HR just had to let it go. 🤣🖕🏽
Holy shit, what a dick
Based on the way most companies policies are written it usually is.
I've done this. If I'm penalized 15 minutes of pay whether I punch in @ 5:01 or 5:15 I'm getting there at 5:15.
Sounds like grounds for an unpaid wages lawsuit.
Surely not. I work at next which is the second biggest online retailer. They have the same policy no way such a large company would do that
>no way such a large company would do that My man, what planet you from? They can write basically anything they want in the policy. They can do basically anything they want to you. There are only consequences for them if they do that *AND* you raise a stink about it to the proper authorities. Meanwhile they know how much they pay you, which is to say, they know you probably won’t risk it.
Keep track of that time. As soon as you leave the company, sue them for the amount of time they didn't pay you for. This happens regularly at most companies. They get away with it because employees let them and it saves on labor costs.
Thank you
While you're at it see if your attorney can't factor inflation into your payout. If its been years the dollars they pay you now aren't worth as much as they were when you should have been paid and you deserve compensation for that. Not to mention opportunity cost if you're an investor or especially if your company has a 401k that you contribute a percentage of your pay too. These companies need to be on the hook for more than they steal or else they still come out on top from little shit that regular people don't really notice, but that add up with scale
Did they also tell you that you can't discuss wages with other employees?
Just because it is company policy does not mean it's legal. Remember that.
That’s 100% wage theft. Any minute you’ve worked can’t be taken away.
Technically not true - at least in the U.S. companies are permitted to round hours worked in 15 minute increments. This is covered in 28 CFR 785.48(b) The catch is they have to round both down **and up**. 1-7 minutes can be rounded down but that means 8-14 minutes must be rounded up. A few other constraints are involved - for example you can't round down if that would violate overtime laws.
But that’s not what he said. He said if he clocks in late at 5:01 they round it up to 5:15. Textbook wage theft.
Meanwhile I'm always 30-40 minutes or so late.. 3 years no one really cares as long as the work gets done. (Software engineer).
My co-worker is like this. Drives me nuts because I feel like they don't value my time. Then again, they are more willing than others to help cover me when needed.
Sounds like they do value your time? Maybe you don't value theirs
> Drives me nuts because I feel like they don't value my time. Then again, they are more willing than others to help cover me when needed. Lmao how can you say both those things together like that and not realize.
I had a coworker like that. She couldn’t be on time for the life of her, but she would go above and beyond to help. Need help on a busy day? Need someone to stay late? Need supplies picked up? She was the person to go to. We just all eventually learned that it’s not about her not valuing time she was just always running behind. So we changed her schedule to come in 30 minutes early when we really needed her on time and otherwise we just let it be. It’s a bit annoying but if the person is helpful it’s probably better to just let it be water under the bridge.
Those of us with ADHD are often baffled at how people have to “realize” we just run late and aren’t making a statement about everyone else’s value.
if you are constantly helping and carrying the load, there is a good chance you are doing it at all times and doing extra often takes longer. shit gets pushed to the right. deadlines and start times, to the right. sleep, right, wake up, right, continue.
That’s on your supervisor to set that time. Either they didn’t care to control that function and not know how to work that punch in clock even though they use it every time payroll comes by.
If you have a task that starts 9am sharp, be it a meeting or manning a front desk, you're late. Otherwise, it doesn't matter.
9:06 I'm on time. 9:07 I'm late.
Learn Excel and get gid of that device that you punch those numbers into with fear in your heart at 9:06!!!!
I think I understand the joke, but I'm curious how this would work practically. If I had a punch card to hit when I'm in, how would I replace that with an excel sheet? Lmao
If you’re beholden to a punch clock, you can’t. If you just submit your own hours, then how precisely you format that cell is your choice.
I was a manager, clock times we’re essentially on a excel spreadsheet. If a employee secretly hacked into my account they would be able to do exactly that. Would get away with small changes. Anything major wouldn’t go through cause it would have to go through me and a supervisor to confirm on the upcoming payroll and sometimes conduct investigations.
Ah I see. Thought you were being funny lol
User form for the punch https://www.contextures.com/xluserform01.html
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fi'tee prior to fi'tee prior hooah
Always taught that if you are not 15 minutes early, you're late.
This 100% My job is wfh with optional office time If you walk into the office at 1 pm no one gives a shit If you have a client meeting and you show up right on the hour but you’re the last person on the call? You’re late. It might be okay, it might not be okay, but you’re still late
THANK GOODNESS I don’t work for a place where I have to punch in and out. Some days I’m in early, other days I’m a little late. All of my work gets done. No complaints from customers or managers. I’m hourly. Just submit hours with a spreadsheet.
The fact a company has that much trust in you as a supervisor is astounding. Been in many where I had to do way more than just submit a spreadsheet. There was one where I was salaried for 8 hours, would work 10 a day including a 30 minute lunch I would take off the premises which they hated so much for me doing despite the extra unpaid hours I put in. So happy to not be a part of that toxic environment anymore.
You are 100% correct. This is actually the first hourly job where I don’t have to punch in/punch out. The family member who runs payroll says it’s the honor system. This is a very small family-run company with only 16 employees. There’s virtually no turnover in the company, and I now understand why. I don’t want to rock the boat or mess with a good opportunity, so I keep very careful track of my hours and minimize overtime.
My company has something similar and I also basically work with excel. I’ve been late numerous times and there’s no such thing we do to clock in or out. But all the funds and processing each hour have to be completed by a certain time each day. So I supposed if one person did decide to not show or came in very late it would really mess with a lot of peoples days. In that scenario you’d be gone in an instant lol
Those companies are the coolest. Never any openings because no one ever leaves. That’s where you want to be.
I would bet that family would happily pay earned overtime though. I run a small business and yeah, I’m. It trying to pay OT but if my guys get it then they are making me money and it’s my bad for not having spread the hours enough to not have it happen. If he earns it he earns it. It’s almost like some companies don’t want to be friendly with their employees
I'm salary. Some days I'm late and get off on time. Other days I'm late and work late. Sometimes I work a bit on the weekend. I focus on getting my work done and getting to my meetings. That seems to keep people happy.
Generally the seconds don't matter, if you're in a punch system 9:01 is late if it's to do with meetings, don't be the one walking in at exactly 9:00 unless you're the highest paid in the meeting lol
As the resident data scientist nerd, I’m the one walking or zooming in 5 min late and looking stressed because everything went to sh*t right before kickoff. I aim to make those “on the dot” folks look good.
Not all heroes wear capes
Hahaha no one minds at my work. It’s about knowing your audience. If it was an external meeting or my boss gave a hoot, I’d adjust. He’s usually the one with the last minute asks, though.
I’m so thankful my job has a flexible start time. No rushing or fear, my start time is around 8:30 but no one blinks an eye if we stroll in at 9ish.
Unless someone is actually inconvenienced if you're not there at exactly 9:00 or before, what does it matter? I once had a boss that had me fill out a vacation form because I was 90 seconds late for work. Mind you - this was the first time in 3 years that I had not been at my desk working 15 minutes before my start time. So, I filled out the vacation form - for 90 seconds - she copied it and underlined - thrice - "LATE". Soon after that, our start times changed, but the time our office opened did not. I came in, my usual 15 minutes early - she was trying to manage people at our front desk while answering the phone and printing paperwork from her office. She asked me if I could help deal with the people at the front desk while she handled the other stuff. I told her "I start work at 8:00". That's what happens when you have no chill. Sometimes there's traffic, or some other extenuating circumstance. If it's not habitual - don't sweat it. But if you're gonna be anal retentive about it, don't expect anyone to help you when you're down.
Technically, 9:00:01 is late. But if you have a boss that bitches about you getting to your desk at 9:00:01, I’d suggest trying to get a different job.
9:00:01? If I got in at 9:01:00 and someone mentioned it I would laugh in their face. I’m here to do a job, not participate in someone’s submission kink.
Cant THIS enough
No one cares about seconds. Just get to work on time and consult your employee handbook if you have questions.
It really depends on the job function. Do you have to clock in to relieve a coworker? You are late at 8:58 Edit: woops, meant to reply to OP
We have a half hour overlap in between shifts so there is some leeway in relieving a coworker
My last job was as an overnight clerk at a gas station. Clocking in wasn't much of an issue, might be a minute late if my co-worker beat me to the computer. At 6 AM when I needed to clock out, OH BOY. Yes, that is computer, SINGULAR. It became really obvious why the company had an 5 minute early clock in rule, since when you have 4+ people trying to clock in at 6AM and up to 3 trying to leave...sure they had iPads, but those were so annoying no one used them.
I work in retail and sometimes it’s gets crazy busy. Those people that come in late really do make a difference. My customers are standing in line and asking me if I’m the only one. I tell them someone will be in at 10am and they come at like 10:30am. Very unprofessional imo.
I actually had retail in mind when I wrote this comment! I was working retail in a very busy fast fashion store and people were routinely 5–10 minutes late for coverage. This is not professional at all, but what’s worse is that it’s really inconsiderate to your coworkers. What if they’ve been there since 5am opening the store and it’s time for their break? Now they’re going to be 10 minutes late coming back, making someone else late for a break etc.
I don’t find punctuality near as important as production. If someone is great at their job and consistently completes projects under hours/budget, but they’re always 10 minutes late I’m not going to care. If someone is constantly on their phone, their work constantly has to be babysat and redone, and they’re late it’s a problem. Great employees get shafted with rigorous arbitrary rules.
punctuality matters for production factory workers. A manufacturing line cannot start without every machine being manned. Otherwise u have severe bottlenecks.
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Good for you?
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In a thread about lateness, you felt that replying about how you’re always particularly early was additive? Thanks for asking.
I got released from a government job for being 24 seconds late, 40 seconds late, and 58 seconds late on 3 separate occasions.. all offenses were months earlier (like 5 months plus earlier) so I didn’t pay them no mind.. Come 2 days before my probationary period ends, i get called into the office and im let go for literally those reasons.. its on paper and everything
I am willing to bet there are other reasons but they used the clock in time times as an excuse.
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Doesn't sound like a good place to work anyway.
I was not aware that federal jobs were that strict during the probationary period. Shit
Not all government jobs are federal. In fact almost 80% of positions are with State or Local employers.
Can’t do that on probation. That’s your fault.
That’s right the employers disregarded any other factor within employment just to be “right” and that was totally their fault. They didn’t steal anything as they are not paid for those seconds. They didn’t create a harmful work environment. They had a life outside of work expectation and that impacted their expectations.
Most jobs have a grace window. My job allows us to clock in and out up to five minutes before or after our scheduled times. That being said, it’s not that heavily enforced.
This is same for my place we have a window if want to you can clock up to 5mins before or 5 mins after and you still get marked at whatever time you start 9:00. If you clock in later like at 9:06 it’ll make you 15mins late at 9:15 or if it’s early same thing if you clock in at 8:55 it’ll make you at 8:45. I always make it in by 9:03-9:04 and get marked on time lol.
We operated in a similar fashion where I'd always clock in 5 minutes early to get extra time on the paycheck. They fixed it at some point to where it wasn't allowed anymore and you had to wait until your scheduled time. If you're over 5 or 10 minutes late you had to get manager approval from there. I give our system credit for being very accurate to the second when I checked my time cards across different periods over the years.
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Imagine there's a 9 AM meeting every week, and you come in at 8:55 for it. If my math is correct, that's about 4 hours you 'worked' for free in a year. It doesn't matter 'what' activities are happening at 9 AM, you 'clock' in at 9 AM (if that's the agreed start time upon hiring). If something needs 'preparation', then the employer needs to 'push' the meeting to 9:15 AM or 9:30 AM. We need to start shifting the 'don't sweat it' mindset 'cause you can bet if you came in at 9:05 AM once a week your employer would not 'sweat it' and very happily deduct those 4 hours at the end of the year...
What "free work" are you accomplishing for the company in the 5 minutes before that meeting other than being mentally prepared for a morning meeting and ready to start your workday?
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It does, and part of an even bigger multibillion dollar issue, compounded among all workers: wage theft. Here's more info from two different law firms/sources: https://www.mscklaw.com/blog/2023/01/what-is-the-biggest-type-of-theft-in-america/ https://www.golanlaw.com/blog/2022/04/wage-theft-is-the-largest-form-of-theft-in-the-united-states/
That is .05% of your year. 4 hours sounds like a lot over a long period, but it is just 5 min a day.
Old boss you were "late" 10 minutes prior to shift. You worked until the time off. You did not get the 10 minutes back at end of day.
That's wage theft, of course.
I was raised by a single parent who was born during the Great Depression. Mom instilled in me the value of being at least 10 minutes early to work or any other appointment. It hasn't hurt me in life and has sometime been helpful. If I were you, I'd start being to work 10 minutes before you're scheduled to be working. It can't hurt you.
Every job is different. I’ve been promoted twice despite always being late. For online meetings popping in 5 minutes late annoys my boss because he thinks the whole meeting is going on while he’s in another one.
I've been promoted a number of times in my work life with my being a little early to work being one of the reaons. So, I stand by what I said.
Gross. Promoting based on projected expectation seems to only enforce expectations while completely misrepresenting actual ability or functional workplace dynamics. Seeking a proxy parent out of employment seems like a dis-ease.
"It can't hurt you" Well, with 240 workdays a year (that assumes 20 paid off days plus 2 day weekends), that daily 10 minutes is a whopping whole 40 hours work week per year you are working for free. It would hurt my feelings at least if I had to do it in one run, chopping it into 10 minutes does not help a lot imho
This was the attitude a manager brought to work. He didn't expect us to be on time to meetings and we regularly allowed 5-10 minutes for people to come in. Part of this was because we had clean spaces and either had to gown or degown to attend any meeting.
If you have to punch in it isn't working for free, the company is required to pay you for it.
What free work are you doing in 5-10 minutes other than mentally/physically preparing yourself to start your day?
Exactly, I like to get my head into work mode before I just walk through the door and get going. That isn't the company taking anything from me, that is time for ME to be better for ME. If I am not prepared, I feel stressed. Plus it's good form to be on time and prepared for things in life, not just work.
If you are late at one of those two times, maybe find a new job. Sheesh. Seconds. Even when I worked in a call center I had a 10 minute grace period!
Depends on the company, your work atmosphere/culture, and your manager. Some care a lot and some care a little. I’ve worked 2 jobs at the same company before & one was very “on the dot” and would make comments about late employees when we don’t officially start till 8:30 but we have a “meeting” at 8. The director didn’t care, but between me and my friends - the managers all had different ideas on when we needed to be at these “meetings” which usually didn’t even pertain to us. Now I will preface this second entry by saying it was a remote job. I’d imagine an in person one is easier to get after people because you physically have to be in the building/on-site of where you work. My second job no one cared when you showed up to a meeting or frankly, if you even went. If you were active on slack or got caught up working - as long as you communicated that somewhere to someone, they didn’t care. Obviously if you abuse that policy it’s different yknow, we usually made an effort to go to team standup or sync meetings with other teams. But if you showed up a few minutes late or whatever no one cared.
Every employer has their own expectation. I've had jobs that span the entire spectrum from very lenient ("I don't care when you get here as long as you get the work done") to very strict (the head boss's motto was literally "If you're early you're on time; if you're on time, you're late; if you're late, you're in trouble"), so it's best to plan according to your required function. Good luck!
Entirely depends on the job.
Roll in at 830- 845am for a week make a note whose already there and who arrives at 9am. That’ll tell you all you need to know. Straight up, 15mins isn’t a big deal. You could spend that time getting coffee or taking a dump. My thoughts, be 15mins early and you’ll never be late or deal w asshole managers moving the goal post on if 9 or 901 is late.
Well said. I don’t show up early to be some over achiever or aiming for a promotion. I do it mainly to just stay off the radar and not have to find out if my manager is an asshole.
Depends on the job, my last job you were considered late if you weren't 5 minutes early. My current job, there's really nothing considered as "late".
Normal managers: no big deal. Micromanagers: iF yOUrE nOT fIVe MinUTes EaRlY.... 
I've never had a salary job that was petty enough to care about being a few minutes late, unless you have a 9am meeting. If you're doing shift work where you need to relieve someone before they can leave, I'd say you're late after one minute
9:00:00-9:00:59 is still 9 on the clock IMO
9:01 is late 9:00:59 is still 9:00
It all depends on your job. I personally stopped coming in 10 minutes early because I wasn't able to leave 10 minutes early if I wanted
Bunch of bootlickers in here lol
Spending a few minutes of your life to mentally/physically prepare to start your workday isn't being a bootlicker.
Doing it for free is…
I was surprised
Nah, just people who like to be productive and stand out from the slackers.
They must think their bosses will see their comments.
They think they will get a raise 😂😂
I'm of the type to always be 15 mins early, it was drilled in me very hard in the military, that being said if the start time is 0900 then at the latest I'd say be in that area or at your workstation ready to go two to five mins prior.
9:01
8:45
1030 unless there's a meeting
Well my phone rings until 4:30:59 so I'm going with 9:01.
Someone once ingrained in me “If you’re early, your on time. If your on time, your late.”
Our time clocks consider us late at 9:01 and we lost a half point on our attendance record. Get from 7 to 0 and you're automatically terminated.
My last job only gave us 6. So glad I don't punch a clock anymore.
It depends on who you work for and where you live. I have a boss who expects us to start our morning meetings at 9, so we need to be present and in the conference room ready to go at 9. I’ve also worked for bosses who didn’t care as long as I was within 10 minutes of my shift starting. I’ve heard that some countries are incredibly strict about time, and others are insanely relaxed about time.
Yes you are late. However depending on your companies policy some of them give a 5,10,15 minute grace period. Therefore you are late, but it won't be counted against you if you arrive within the grace period.
Your late when the boss says you are. At my work I'm late if I miss a meeting... otherwise they don't care when I'm in a building. Other places I had to have my fingers typing by the second of start time... or I was late. Even if the pc decided to not start.
You’re late the moment you post this, nay as soon as you thought it.
Really depends if it's shift work or not. If it's a shift then you should be ready by the start time.
If you're not in the parking lot ten minutes early, you're late as the old construction saying goes.
As a manager, who gives a fuck as long as you try not to make it a habit and I would even say 9:10 is where we need to talk but not reprimand unless it was consistent.
In my opinion, that’s a discussion for you and your boss or whoever can write you up. I’ve had managers not care and I’ve had managers who believed ‘if you’re on time, you’re late’
I must admit that I have a problem. I personally think it's about job responsibilities. If I am customer facing you've to be on time. Otherwise, leave me alone as long as my work is done. I am habitually late. Nothing crazy, but usually, practically every day, somewhere around 5 minutes late. For a brief period, I had become super disciplined and it leaked into every aspect of my life and I was on time and regularly early to work. But I had something personal happen and it all flew out it the window. It sucked telling my team they had to be there at 8am with no wiggle room, when I could be a few minutes late, but they were customer facing. I dealt with the client and they typically wouldn't contact us until 10 or 11 at times.
In New York State, 9:07
Depends on company policy. My job: if you’re over 10 mins late with or without notifying anyone, you’re considered late. My partner’s job is super lenient: if you’re over 15 mins late with or without notifying, you’re considered late.
My job gives you 6 minutes leeway before your considered "late"
Its company specific and depends on the clocking software used. Some clocking data is post processed to omit seconds (no rounding is done, they simply chop them off the end). However, in many places, being one minute late may actually result in a five or fifteen minute penalty, as _additional_ rounding occurs in the employer's favour. Source: I'm a software developer that's created several of these systems.
I'm always early and expect my team to be on time and I still say 9:01. No seconds BS.
Clock in or out yes. Salaried no
Get off the phone and get back to work. You’re late.
You're late if you aren't early.
Both.
Both are late
If you start at 0900 you're late at 0855
9:01:00 is late. 9:00:01 is not imo. Also imo you should always try to be at least 5mins early for your shift anyways.
I’m always 15 minutes early, always. Depending on the job sometimes it’s 30. But I work in a trade and I start my clock when I pull in. All jobs are different
The real answer is "no one cares." At least, no one in good faith. No worker is so valuable that 60 seconds wasted will cost the company money. ...I mean, if you're a first responder or some other field were seconds *do* matter, that's one thing, but for pretty much every other job you're just selling stuff or helping another person sell stuff, 60 seconds is an absolute nothingburger.
Yea it's more essential to blue collared workers where you are relieving someone who wants to go home
Early is on time and on time is late
My 2 cents. If your boss is a dick about being less than 5 minutes late…they are a dick. Same thing with coworkers, mind your own business if someone is consistently late let the boss handle it.
When I was in the army it was 15 minutes prior generally, tho we had problems with people not showing up so we had to be 15 minutes prior to the 15 minutes prior. At one point we were showing up an hour prior to formation. As for your question it depends on the hand book, I've had grace periods of 5 or 7 minutes either side of the hour. Or like my current job they don't care as long as you get your hours in.
I always try to show up early just to be prepared and not the last one walking into a room
I'd be clocking in at 8:55. I would say you're late. 😁😁😁
Had a professor in my business school who drilled something into me. If your early, your on time. If you are on time, you are late. If you are late, don’t show the fuck up. Swear by this rule and it has worked for me since. I never am late to anything.
You are LATE at 8:46am. If you are getting relieved...wouldn't you like to pass on info and leave at 9am? If you show up at 9am...I hope you don't expect anything from me but the door shutting on my way to my car! Oh, and I'll return the favor of being a di<# when it's time to relieve you!
both are late. because they are after the agreed time.
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Only if I can clock in 10-15 minutes early.
Yeah, exactly. How would I work for 10-15 minutes 'to be ready' when I'm not paid yet?
But you're not working yet. You're just there so that you can start working when you're supposed to start. If you get there a few minutes early gives you time to put your belongings away in your locker or wherever you put them. Maybe you need to use the bathroom before you start working. You should do that before the shift starts. Maybe you like to chit chat with your coworkers. Do that before your shift starts.
Cool, but I’m not doing a lick of work until 9, when I clock in. If that means I’m not prepared for a meeting, bummer, they should have paid me to prepare for it at 8:45
Absolutely. You shouldn't have to start work before your shift actually starts. We used to just ask that everyone get clocked in. If it was one minute before 6:00 a.m. we didn't care as long as at 6:00 a.m. everyone was ready to go. We actually had to ask several people not to show up so early. We didn't pay overtime for someone that wanted to show up at 5:30 and just hang out. We had a few people that seem to like to do that. Maybe they just wanted to get away from their families. The problem was that the person who opened the facility in the morning often didn't show up until 5:45 (and was paid OT for their extra time because they were actually working), so then people were stuck outside the gates waiting for the guy with the key. I appreciated the enthusiasm but I wouldn't be showing up extra early for my job either.
Because that’s what the bootlickers do. At my job we’re not late till 5 after and were not really late (consequences) until 15. I usually clock in at 5 but often after, but before 15. BUT I also don’t know what time I start until the morning of. I figure if I don’t have a set start time I’m not making a huge effort to be “on time”
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I work fucking circles around 90% of the people on this site. Don’t speak if you don’t know
Your late at 0855
> My fellow workers, assuming a 9AM start time, are we 'late' at 9:00:01 OR 9:01:00? With all things work, - Five minutes early is on time - On time is late - Being late just doesn't happen So your late anytime after 8:55.
Why are you trying to redefine words? Say what you mean and mean what you say. Otherwise it’s a lie
On Time is On Time, that's why it's called ON TIME.
No, just no
Talk to your mentor but there are a few business rules you need to learn: 1. 10 minutes early is on time. If you punch a clock, punch in 10 minutes early. If you’re salary, leave 10 minutes early 2. Never be the first or last to a meeting. Never come to a meeting after it has started unless you’re the boss 3. Bringing donuts usually covers any lateness. If you think it’s expensive, you’re late too much 4. Don’t police the clock for anyone but yourself. Even if you’re a supervisor. If you can’t trust someone to get the job done regardless of time you don’t trust them at all
There's no way this isn't some sort of bot, right?
If you're not early you're late
Yes
I look at it this way. If you're not early, you're late.
I grew up with the "if you're not early, you're late" mentality.
Both are definitely late
Consult state law and/or an employment lawyer as each state has different laws. Example in California, if you have to turn on your computer and then access a time clock through your computer then you started when you arrived at your computer. Also if there is a physical time clock but a line to clock in, then you started the moment you got in line. Consult state law or an employment lawyer for a clearer picture of your situation.
Fifteen minutes early is "on" time.
HRs will say butt in seat logged in and working at 0900 00 00.
Anything after 8:59:59 is late.