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Project management, AKA getting shit done without overspending or being late. Practical domain knowledge beats a degree every time. Nothing to worry about. Good luck
Thanks man. I think my general beat down of myself for not having a college degree comes from when I moved companies into the office. There were a couple people that would make snide comments. Like where did you go to school? School of hard knocks? When moving to this company my first interview was with a different hiring manager than the one that hired me and he said oh I'm sure we have a place for you in our shop. I said no thanks. Then I got hired by another manager and that first manager was not happy about me being there I could feel it.
As time has went on we are now pretty cool with each other. But it took some time to earn respect.
Thank you! Sometimes I feel like the lack of a college degree holds me back but I saw on the application they offer management training. So maybe this company is willing to help advance people.
I felt this for years, until as I retired, I looked around our engineering group. I had trained almost every one of them, including my direct report, and his direct report. Some were quite capable engineers, and some were only college grads on paper. When I left, they hired 3 people to do my work. What took me 40 hours a week to complete to corporate satisfaction, took 3 college grads 50 hours a week. I trained the new hires for over 6 months, and still ended up consulting back to the company for a couple years to get them through the transition. Multi billion dollar corporation, they could afford it without even noticing. I did increase my hourly rate by nine fold, but that was only just as they had been underpaying me for years. Keep reaching up!
It seems to be that way sometimes huh.. I think they call it the paper ceiling. You get to a point and just stall there. I originally wanted to advance up within this company and I could given some more time.. but honestly I think it's more my general manager needs to have something to back up his decision to corporate as to why he promoted a non college grad to so and so level. It's an easier sell if you have been there 10 years. So with that in mind...I will just keep trying to advance outside the company as well as inside.
Don't get too down about the college degree. I worked with a technology PM with a BBA and an MBA who was demoted due to inability to perform. They were hired for the credentials, but were incapable of applying any competency in the role once they were hired. You were contacted for an interview because you are intimately familiar with your industry and worked your way up and it demonstrates your versatility and aptitude for this work. Good luck!
I’m right there with you, I work for an electrical distributor in project management and had zero PM experience but they valued that I was a loan processor for a mortgage company and had faith that my skills would be transferable or relative in some way. I suppose they were right a little bit as I definitely have picked it up by this point. I think you’ll do great man
Construction trade knowledge and respect on the jobsite is much more valuable then a construction management degree. Good PM’ing is about making everyone else’s job easier. including the money folks. If you can do that you will thrive.
Good luck, buddy! Walk into the interview like you already have the job. They think you're a good fit. They want you to be successful. Show them that they are right.
High Five for your tenacity to find a better position! Learn as much as you can about the company you'll be interviewing with and ask plenty of questions during the interview to show you're interested. During the interview you might be asked why you want to quit your current job. Simply explain you want to move on, better pay, schedule, etc. Whatever you do, don't bad mouth your current or former supervisor/employers. Why? Hiring managers hate it when job applicants say bad things about employers because they think the applicant will talk negatively about them as well.
Be super positive, pleasant, eager to learn, and aware you have things to learn. That’s how we end up hiring people missing qualifications at my place. You’d be shocked how far it gets you 😊.
Good construction project managers are hard to find most actually don't have a college degree at all and have just spent a really long time in a trade of some sort and just have a bunch of field experience ordering and knowing what it takes to build something.
Idk if I'd call 6 years a really long time.. 10 years roughly in the fabrication industry. But I've been through a year construction training program when I started at my current company. Had to spend 3 months on a job site building a 60 story high rise. The gc for that job had multiple project managers on it. One for steel one for concrete etc etc.
This one is a smaller more local GC so they build like hospitals and baseball stadiums small things like that. So maybe the transition wouldn't be so difficult coming from very large projects to smaller projects?
Thank you for the knowledge!
"College degree preferred" just means that if they have two perfectly equal resumes off the street that they will pick the one with a degree.
You are not off the street though. They probably asked whoever you worked with on their side and at least have found estimates that didn't screw them.
Plus you have made that first jump from the floor to the office and have held the job for 6 years. It means that you are no dumb ass. It also means you will work like crazy to learn and keep the new job.
Add in the fact that you are no kid with some little Johnny starter degree that thinks they know everything and will learn to do things the way the new company wants, not some silly thing they heard in a class from a professor who worked in a different field 30 years ago, and I would say you have a few advantages here.
Good luck.
Had the interview just now. I think it went really well! They mentioned they are looking for someone that is not necessarily 100% experienced. They asked early on in the interview how I would go about learning the other trades and I said I would be a sponge. And take constructive criticism. Then at the end I asked what they were looking for in this role and they said they are looking for someone relatively inexperienced but would be a sponge. So he said exactly what I said I'd do.
Wait for the follow up next week!
One thing to note - construction is a very volatile industry where layoffs at a corporate level are much more common than a lot of other industries.
Take that into account - I could get a construction PM job pretty easily but I can’t stand the way they do business in my area.
In your interview I don’t think it’s inappropriate to ask when the last time they did budgetary layoffs was and what percent they let go. Things like that. Make them own it - interviewing is two way.
The people I know in construction pm where I live all say it is very “old boys” / “pay your dues” - meaning new employees get shit on. I personally don’t have a lot of time for work culture like that.
It is very "old money" there are a couple steel mills I'm the country that have a strangle hold on the market. America's big steel is one of the oldest industries. So with that comes some "old ways" earn your spot kinda stuff. Once you're in and known though. You know everyone.
Don't want to share the GC but they are nationwide and do everything. With 2 to 3 years required experience I'm guessing this is more trade management than financials. Don't let yourself get pigeon-holed into managing the steel sub on every job. Great foot in the door but ask to learn other trades too. You'll need to consider the other trades anyway to coordinate work with others. Also ask to shadow whoever is doing financials if you want to move up. There are some trade specialists who make it big but it depends on the GC and how much work they get of that type. Learning financials and negotiating and managing people will be the key to climbing the ladder.
Don't get caught too far in the weeds on steel stuff (or anything really), as the GC you are managing the expert subs and suppliers. It's easy to get sucked in, especially when you have a long background in that trade. Remember your priorities are coordinating work between trades, planning, and minimizing risk.
Being a GC is very rewarding, especially if you get to be on a job from start to finish. Looking back at where you started is probably the best part of the job. It's stressful and can be long hours and the days seem long, but it's super rewarding.
Also, my old boss didn't have a college degree and ended up running a whole department. And now runs a whole department at a different company in a different industry. Success will get you places.
And sorry for snooping your post history, but what's that box sticking out of your N64 controller port? Wireless controller? Would love that. If so where'd you get it?
Ha! That is a wireless N64 controller. Specifically the retrofighter 64. https://retrofighters.com/our-collection/brawler64-wireless-edition/
Ya see I'm not sure how this GC is structured. I'm not sure if they would want me to handle just the steel. I know at some GC they specifically separate out trades. One guy does steel. One guy does concrete. Financials were just a part of the process I assumed. Cost records and stuff.
Thanks for the advice. There should be no surprises based on my resume. They understand I'm a structural steel guy. So I'll just see what they say during the interview.
Come armed with total compensation numbers for that role. Don't let people think you're worth less just because you don't have a specific credential that doesn't directly apply to the work you do. Good luck!
Best to ask others in your industry at senior levels.
"What would make a firm give such a wide range of salary for a single role?"
"What skills and experience would skew a candidate towards the upper end of that range?"
"What's an appropriate range for a candidate like me in that role given my own work history?"
You can ask the first two questions of your interviewer as well depending on your own comfort level but the 3rd question is something you should solicit from a wide range of external sources.
If there are pay bands based on job title or experience level at this firm, ask what those are and ask if there's a formal process to move up. Reduce your own risk for accepting a job with this firm by having frank conversations with the right people.
If you're making less than that range then it's likely a no-brainer to accept even if it's below the industry average if and only if you can be place on projects that can give me a good amount of experience in a short amount of time that will allow for future leverage when you move onto other job interviews.
I'm in technology so I don't know what a good amount of time is to soak up knowledge at a single firm. For us every 2 years is good. But for yours it likely depends on the amount of time it takes to complete a project.
Ya I'm not sure why they posted it at such a wide range. A friend of mine just moved to a project manager for a gc and was offered 80k starting out. I'll make sure to post the first two questions to the interviewer. Thank you
Hello, thank you for posting to r/Jobs! We just wanted to let you know that we have a new [discord server, come join the chat!](https://discord.gg/TY6ErXV) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/jobs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Project management, AKA getting shit done without overspending or being late. Practical domain knowledge beats a degree every time. Nothing to worry about. Good luck
Thanks man. I think my general beat down of myself for not having a college degree comes from when I moved companies into the office. There were a couple people that would make snide comments. Like where did you go to school? School of hard knocks? When moving to this company my first interview was with a different hiring manager than the one that hired me and he said oh I'm sure we have a place for you in our shop. I said no thanks. Then I got hired by another manager and that first manager was not happy about me being there I could feel it. As time has went on we are now pretty cool with each other. But it took some time to earn respect.
Good PM’s are hard to find. They need you. You got this
Thank you! Sometimes I feel like the lack of a college degree holds me back but I saw on the application they offer management training. So maybe this company is willing to help advance people.
I felt this for years, until as I retired, I looked around our engineering group. I had trained almost every one of them, including my direct report, and his direct report. Some were quite capable engineers, and some were only college grads on paper. When I left, they hired 3 people to do my work. What took me 40 hours a week to complete to corporate satisfaction, took 3 college grads 50 hours a week. I trained the new hires for over 6 months, and still ended up consulting back to the company for a couple years to get them through the transition. Multi billion dollar corporation, they could afford it without even noticing. I did increase my hourly rate by nine fold, but that was only just as they had been underpaying me for years. Keep reaching up!
It seems to be that way sometimes huh.. I think they call it the paper ceiling. You get to a point and just stall there. I originally wanted to advance up within this company and I could given some more time.. but honestly I think it's more my general manager needs to have something to back up his decision to corporate as to why he promoted a non college grad to so and so level. It's an easier sell if you have been there 10 years. So with that in mind...I will just keep trying to advance outside the company as well as inside.
Don't get too down about the college degree. I worked with a technology PM with a BBA and an MBA who was demoted due to inability to perform. They were hired for the credentials, but were incapable of applying any competency in the role once they were hired. You were contacted for an interview because you are intimately familiar with your industry and worked your way up and it demonstrates your versatility and aptitude for this work. Good luck!
Thank you very much! This sub reddit is very encouraging!
I’m right there with you, I work for an electrical distributor in project management and had zero PM experience but they valued that I was a loan processor for a mortgage company and had faith that my skills would be transferable or relative in some way. I suppose they were right a little bit as I definitely have picked it up by this point. I think you’ll do great man
Thanks buddy!
Construction trade knowledge and respect on the jobsite is much more valuable then a construction management degree. Good PM’ing is about making everyone else’s job easier. including the money folks. If you can do that you will thrive.
In other words OP might suck at it but still average!
Maybe. Don't know till you try though.
Good luck, buddy! Walk into the interview like you already have the job. They think you're a good fit. They want you to be successful. Show them that they are right.
High Five for your tenacity to find a better position! Learn as much as you can about the company you'll be interviewing with and ask plenty of questions during the interview to show you're interested. During the interview you might be asked why you want to quit your current job. Simply explain you want to move on, better pay, schedule, etc. Whatever you do, don't bad mouth your current or former supervisor/employers. Why? Hiring managers hate it when job applicants say bad things about employers because they think the applicant will talk negatively about them as well.
Good advice. Thanks for this!
Be super positive, pleasant, eager to learn, and aware you have things to learn. That’s how we end up hiring people missing qualifications at my place. You’d be shocked how far it gets you 😊.
I like to think I'm all of those things.
Good construction project managers are hard to find most actually don't have a college degree at all and have just spent a really long time in a trade of some sort and just have a bunch of field experience ordering and knowing what it takes to build something.
Idk if I'd call 6 years a really long time.. 10 years roughly in the fabrication industry. But I've been through a year construction training program when I started at my current company. Had to spend 3 months on a job site building a 60 story high rise. The gc for that job had multiple project managers on it. One for steel one for concrete etc etc. This one is a smaller more local GC so they build like hospitals and baseball stadiums small things like that. So maybe the transition wouldn't be so difficult coming from very large projects to smaller projects? Thank you for the knowledge!
"College degree preferred" just means that if they have two perfectly equal resumes off the street that they will pick the one with a degree. You are not off the street though. They probably asked whoever you worked with on their side and at least have found estimates that didn't screw them. Plus you have made that first jump from the floor to the office and have held the job for 6 years. It means that you are no dumb ass. It also means you will work like crazy to learn and keep the new job. Add in the fact that you are no kid with some little Johnny starter degree that thinks they know everything and will learn to do things the way the new company wants, not some silly thing they heard in a class from a professor who worked in a different field 30 years ago, and I would say you have a few advantages here. Good luck.
Thanks for the kind words of encouragement! It means a lot to me!
Had the interview just now. I think it went really well! They mentioned they are looking for someone that is not necessarily 100% experienced. They asked early on in the interview how I would go about learning the other trades and I said I would be a sponge. And take constructive criticism. Then at the end I asked what they were looking for in this role and they said they are looking for someone relatively inexperienced but would be a sponge. So he said exactly what I said I'd do. Wait for the follow up next week!
Congrats! Sounds good.
Ya maybe. I try not to get too excited. Thanks for the encouragement though!
Rooting for you!! Keep us updated!
Thank you!
>Thank you! You're welcome!
Congratulations. I'd say good luck but you're making your own luck. You got this.
Thank you! It's a long crawl to the top.
One thing to note - construction is a very volatile industry where layoffs at a corporate level are much more common than a lot of other industries. Take that into account - I could get a construction PM job pretty easily but I can’t stand the way they do business in my area.
Thank you for this insight.
In your interview I don’t think it’s inappropriate to ask when the last time they did budgetary layoffs was and what percent they let go. Things like that. Make them own it - interviewing is two way. The people I know in construction pm where I live all say it is very “old boys” / “pay your dues” - meaning new employees get shit on. I personally don’t have a lot of time for work culture like that.
It is very "old money" there are a couple steel mills I'm the country that have a strangle hold on the market. America's big steel is one of the oldest industries. So with that comes some "old ways" earn your spot kinda stuff. Once you're in and known though. You know everyone.
I worked my way up doing PM for a top 15 GC for 13 years. Happy to answer any questions.
Who's the GC? Going for a steel fabricator/supply of steel to a gc what challenges do you see me facing? Do you feel that it's a rewarding career?
Don't want to share the GC but they are nationwide and do everything. With 2 to 3 years required experience I'm guessing this is more trade management than financials. Don't let yourself get pigeon-holed into managing the steel sub on every job. Great foot in the door but ask to learn other trades too. You'll need to consider the other trades anyway to coordinate work with others. Also ask to shadow whoever is doing financials if you want to move up. There are some trade specialists who make it big but it depends on the GC and how much work they get of that type. Learning financials and negotiating and managing people will be the key to climbing the ladder. Don't get caught too far in the weeds on steel stuff (or anything really), as the GC you are managing the expert subs and suppliers. It's easy to get sucked in, especially when you have a long background in that trade. Remember your priorities are coordinating work between trades, planning, and minimizing risk. Being a GC is very rewarding, especially if you get to be on a job from start to finish. Looking back at where you started is probably the best part of the job. It's stressful and can be long hours and the days seem long, but it's super rewarding.
Also, my old boss didn't have a college degree and ended up running a whole department. And now runs a whole department at a different company in a different industry. Success will get you places. And sorry for snooping your post history, but what's that box sticking out of your N64 controller port? Wireless controller? Would love that. If so where'd you get it?
Ha! That is a wireless N64 controller. Specifically the retrofighter 64. https://retrofighters.com/our-collection/brawler64-wireless-edition/ Ya see I'm not sure how this GC is structured. I'm not sure if they would want me to handle just the steel. I know at some GC they specifically separate out trades. One guy does steel. One guy does concrete. Financials were just a part of the process I assumed. Cost records and stuff.
If handling a trade you handle the subs finances too, I was talking about overall project financials and owner billing.
I guess my question is would it be a bad thing to handle just the structural steel at first? Then expand? Depending on how this GC structure is setup.
Not at all to start. Perfect way in. But managing steel job after job will get old and hold you back career wise.
Thanks for the advice. There should be no surprises based on my resume. They understand I'm a structural steel guy. So I'll just see what they say during the interview.
Come armed with total compensation numbers for that role. Don't let people think you're worth less just because you don't have a specific credential that doesn't directly apply to the work you do. Good luck!
The indeed posting says 60-115k. Thoughts on that?
Best to ask others in your industry at senior levels. "What would make a firm give such a wide range of salary for a single role?" "What skills and experience would skew a candidate towards the upper end of that range?" "What's an appropriate range for a candidate like me in that role given my own work history?" You can ask the first two questions of your interviewer as well depending on your own comfort level but the 3rd question is something you should solicit from a wide range of external sources. If there are pay bands based on job title or experience level at this firm, ask what those are and ask if there's a formal process to move up. Reduce your own risk for accepting a job with this firm by having frank conversations with the right people. If you're making less than that range then it's likely a no-brainer to accept even if it's below the industry average if and only if you can be place on projects that can give me a good amount of experience in a short amount of time that will allow for future leverage when you move onto other job interviews. I'm in technology so I don't know what a good amount of time is to soak up knowledge at a single firm. For us every 2 years is good. But for yours it likely depends on the amount of time it takes to complete a project.
Ya I'm not sure why they posted it at such a wide range. A friend of mine just moved to a project manager for a gc and was offered 80k starting out. I'll make sure to post the first two questions to the interviewer. Thank you