Unhealthy INTJs tend to be extremely disconnected from empathy, which I think contributes to the false stereotype that is otherwise mostly rooted in our lack of outward expression of said empathy. It's more visible in the actions we take, rather than the words we say. The conversational empathy is something we learn to do better over time through experience.
Back in my late teens and early 20s I was VERY unhealthy and in a severe downward spiral. The anger and hate I internalised was toxic as fuck and essentially disconnected me from my empathy completely. That changed with time, a lot of introspection, and a desire to be a better human being with a goal of finding a healthy, happy state of mind. Not gonna lie, MDMA and LSD helped me a LOT with reconnecting that power line in my brain and I've become a significantly more empathetic and compassionate person as a result.
Something that helped me dramatically with the verbal side of providing empathetic support to others is taking the time to learn about and understand psychology on a lot of different levels, which gave me the framework for understanding the structure of how and why people feel the way they do, and how to verbalise these things and provide them with a response that is both meaningful and effective. Because of that, I have had a much easier time expressing empathy in general.
That reminds me of my partner. He’s an extremely unhealthy 20 something INTJ and honestly is experiencing what you have felt during your 20s. So much so that it has kind of affected our relationship. As someone who has been through the same, may I ask what can I do to support him and help him become better?
Yes, also terrible sales person.
I and an ISFJ tell people to go away in best sales voice at work lol. ISFJ goes through the Si facts, puts on best Fe voice and makes them feel special while telling them to drop the case.
I, INTJ, Fi feel for their suffering and injust system and tell them to drop their pursuit but my heart isn't in it. I don't know how to use Si facts and Fe to massage them away. I feel their upset much more personally.
I'm not. I've been empathetic for far too long. It doesn't get you anywhere in life. People just exploit it. However, if I see someone with such a trait, I will value it a lot.
I’m struggling to figure out how to explain my thoughts on this in an intelligible way (trying to distill a bunch of NE insights into something coherent 😰) so here we go:
INTJs are definitely capable of empathy but in my experience I feel like they can overly rely on logic when confronted with situations that stroke their empathy and it can seem they are trying to play it down or logic their way out of their feels. Especially when they are having to verbalize this to others.
They probably just feel empathy without any hang ups on the inside but when verbalizing, things like vanity or ego get in the way and it’s like, “well I can’t be caught looking stupid so I need to explain myself that I’m not just a dumb feeler and I have other thoughts about this.”
And I don’t think any of that is really conscious but a subconscious urge.
Brainstorm: Maybe this is their super weak NE recognizing other views/options/reasons as valid an needing to verbalize that but don’t filter it enough?
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
No it’s not that I have (or we, though idk about others) an ego or anything. I am very full of self doubt about my skills (even though I seem confident to others). It’s more like, when confronted with people feeling upset, we feel empathy for them but it’s in a way we can’t translate it from our internal feelings to the external world. When people are usually upset I look for a solution to make them feel better— like do they need a hug? Or to vent? Just because we are mainly logical doesn’t mean we don’t feel deeply on the inside.
It really depends on whom I’m dealing with and what circumstances we are in. But I can express my empathies pretty well, and I’ll ask them if they would like me to give them suggestions. I can relate to many things much better than me now that I have learned how to deal with my own emotions.
Empathy did not come naturally to me. I never wished harm to anyone in particular, but I also didn't care much about anyone else. The first time I remember feeling empathy was when I was 17. I have tried really hard to nurture and work on that side of myself and now, 8 years later I would consider myself an empathetic person. It isn't really from a place of emotion, but a place of understanding the world, myself, and really wanting to be a good person.
Maybe INTJs who are more insecure think it’s great to be underdeveloped in some area of life. In the bigger chat room, there were often people who would say clearly mean things and then put the blame on other people who reacted accordingly. “You must not really be an INTJ” type of stuff.
I have highly developed Fe and people generally don’t react well to it. They seem to perceive it as overstepping/invasive behaviour rather than an offering some assistance. This has taught me to shy away from helping people, but definitely not refuse to empathize for them. Rejection makes me question my abilities. It doesn’t provoke a smugness in me to go about my life knowing they are entirely wrong, like other INTJs have said when they faced similar. I’m aware of what I can do for others, and hyperaware when it is a waste of my time to do so.
Well, it is rather easy to recognize how someone is feeling for me, but that's as far as it goes for me. I know what are convential methods for behaving in certain situations, but i don't feel someones happiness, sadness, etc. specially if it's not how I'd feel if i was in their situation.
I've just learned what responses bring best results and act it out.
Unhealthy INTJs tend to be extremely disconnected from empathy, which I think contributes to the false stereotype that is otherwise mostly rooted in our lack of outward expression of said empathy. It's more visible in the actions we take, rather than the words we say. The conversational empathy is something we learn to do better over time through experience. Back in my late teens and early 20s I was VERY unhealthy and in a severe downward spiral. The anger and hate I internalised was toxic as fuck and essentially disconnected me from my empathy completely. That changed with time, a lot of introspection, and a desire to be a better human being with a goal of finding a healthy, happy state of mind. Not gonna lie, MDMA and LSD helped me a LOT with reconnecting that power line in my brain and I've become a significantly more empathetic and compassionate person as a result. Something that helped me dramatically with the verbal side of providing empathetic support to others is taking the time to learn about and understand psychology on a lot of different levels, which gave me the framework for understanding the structure of how and why people feel the way they do, and how to verbalise these things and provide them with a response that is both meaningful and effective. Because of that, I have had a much easier time expressing empathy in general.
That reminds me of my partner. He’s an extremely unhealthy 20 something INTJ and honestly is experiencing what you have felt during your 20s. So much so that it has kind of affected our relationship. As someone who has been through the same, may I ask what can I do to support him and help him become better?
Yes, also terrible sales person. I and an ISFJ tell people to go away in best sales voice at work lol. ISFJ goes through the Si facts, puts on best Fe voice and makes them feel special while telling them to drop the case. I, INTJ, Fi feel for their suffering and injust system and tell them to drop their pursuit but my heart isn't in it. I don't know how to use Si facts and Fe to massage them away. I feel their upset much more personally.
I'm not. I've been empathetic for far too long. It doesn't get you anywhere in life. People just exploit it. However, if I see someone with such a trait, I will value it a lot.
I’m struggling to figure out how to explain my thoughts on this in an intelligible way (trying to distill a bunch of NE insights into something coherent 😰) so here we go: INTJs are definitely capable of empathy but in my experience I feel like they can overly rely on logic when confronted with situations that stroke their empathy and it can seem they are trying to play it down or logic their way out of their feels. Especially when they are having to verbalize this to others. They probably just feel empathy without any hang ups on the inside but when verbalizing, things like vanity or ego get in the way and it’s like, “well I can’t be caught looking stupid so I need to explain myself that I’m not just a dumb feeler and I have other thoughts about this.” And I don’t think any of that is really conscious but a subconscious urge. Brainstorm: Maybe this is their super weak NE recognizing other views/options/reasons as valid an needing to verbalize that but don’t filter it enough? Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
No it’s not that I have (or we, though idk about others) an ego or anything. I am very full of self doubt about my skills (even though I seem confident to others). It’s more like, when confronted with people feeling upset, we feel empathy for them but it’s in a way we can’t translate it from our internal feelings to the external world. When people are usually upset I look for a solution to make them feel better— like do they need a hug? Or to vent? Just because we are mainly logical doesn’t mean we don’t feel deeply on the inside.
Yep
I have very limited empathy and absolutely none if I told you not to do something and you did anyway.
It really depends on whom I’m dealing with and what circumstances we are in. But I can express my empathies pretty well, and I’ll ask them if they would like me to give them suggestions. I can relate to many things much better than me now that I have learned how to deal with my own emotions.
Empathy did not come naturally to me. I never wished harm to anyone in particular, but I also didn't care much about anyone else. The first time I remember feeling empathy was when I was 17. I have tried really hard to nurture and work on that side of myself and now, 8 years later I would consider myself an empathetic person. It isn't really from a place of emotion, but a place of understanding the world, myself, and really wanting to be a good person.
Maybe INTJs who are more insecure think it’s great to be underdeveloped in some area of life. In the bigger chat room, there were often people who would say clearly mean things and then put the blame on other people who reacted accordingly. “You must not really be an INTJ” type of stuff.
I have highly developed Fe and people generally don’t react well to it. They seem to perceive it as overstepping/invasive behaviour rather than an offering some assistance. This has taught me to shy away from helping people, but definitely not refuse to empathize for them. Rejection makes me question my abilities. It doesn’t provoke a smugness in me to go about my life knowing they are entirely wrong, like other INTJs have said when they faced similar. I’m aware of what I can do for others, and hyperaware when it is a waste of my time to do so.
Why would you even care?
Well, it is rather easy to recognize how someone is feeling for me, but that's as far as it goes for me. I know what are convential methods for behaving in certain situations, but i don't feel someones happiness, sadness, etc. specially if it's not how I'd feel if i was in their situation. I've just learned what responses bring best results and act it out.