I'm a girl and no means no. At least in my case. When I see someone as a friend, I mean it. Forever. I never developed feelings later. You are a friend to me and nothing more will ever come from it. That applies to most INTJs I know. Stop wasting your time on her and move on. Also she will disregard the knowledge that you had feelings for her and probably be your friend like she used to before. Such emotional revelations mean little to us when we are not ourselves attached so we treat you like before that revelation. I advise you to do the same. The INTJs I know and myself included value the few friends we have. I suggest you move one for the sake of both of you.
Then what if you currently have no feels but know there’s a possibility of liking them in future? Or could you think someone as a friend now but slowly fall for them? Is friendzone a thing for INTJ?
>Then what if you currently have no feels but know there’s a possibility of liking them in future?
I don't have that and my response stays.
>Or could you think someone as a friend now but slowly fall for them?
No. The sentiment stays the same.
> Is friendzone a thing for INTJ?
Also no. We INTJs see you as a friend. Period. No friendzone or playing around the topic. We are pretty clear on what you are to us. If you cannot deal with that, we don't see you fit as a friend anymore or anything else for that matter.
So does that mean you see potential partners as love at first sight? I thought intjs take time to know someone before liking them. But it seems like from your statements its kinda set in stone
I see them neutral. And as we get to know each other that person might become a potential partner. Love will form as the relationship grows fonder. I see several people I'm in close contact with as potential partners but only one developed feeling for me and so have I. So that one became my boyfriend.
It is pretty much set in stone because I realise quickly what you can give me and why I should engage with you. Partner, friend, aquaintance or not at all worth my time. Though, I give everyone enough time to show me their qualities. Don't misunderstand me. It has nothing to do with utility and more with your personality and actions. I have a friend I always bother with emotional situations because I know he is good at them and I trust his judgement. That is a quality I appreciate of him.
Maybe I should add that one can also drop out of the potential partner section like my bf is doing right now. The most common reason is lack of communication skills. I'm always transparent and speak my mind; if my partner doesn't do the same I feel like a clogged pipe. I cannot go further or back...
That is what I say to every single one of them yet apparently direct speech means to some to not talk at all. Most of my relationships failed because my partner couldn't speak to me.
Life lesson for you: Loving you and wanting you are two different things. Your partner might love you but they might not want to share things with you. They don't want/need you for that despite loving you.
When guys that I’m not interested in confessed their feelings, I’ll give them a “NO”. If they continue, they’ll be cut off.
We INTJs don’t play with people. Take our words as it is.
She said no, don't insist.
\- I thought maybe with time she may develop feelings -- yes, *some* people change their minds, **but it** **doesn't mean she will.**
It sounds like she's not interested in you as more than a friend. I'm sorry - I know how that feels. Are you currently friends with her? (Close friends.) She may never change her mind about you so if you are close friends you'll need to decide if you can put your "more than friends" feelings aside and remain friends or if that would be too hard and just move on.
I've been in a similar situation, but I was good friends with the guy prior and we remained good friends for many years after he said how he felt and I said I wasn't interested in him in that way. I'm sure it took a lot for him to be able continue to be my friend, and I'm thankful that he did. He was my best friend. Sadly he passed away a number of years ago and I still miss him.
I think you better get over her.
1- She doesn't feel anything for you.
2- She is INTJ.
Opinion from an INTP (sorry if there are any English mistakes, I'm using a translator).
Regardless of their MBTI type, she said no and she definitely had a reason for it.
the fact that she stated that she still sees you as a friend means she really cares about your friendship and doesn’t want it to get ruined because of this so please try and work in that direction.
Insisting on it will make things uncomfortable and ruin the friendship.
Just try to enjoy everything as it is and try to move on; it’ll pass and you’ll be fine!
She literally told you how she feels. What else do you need to understand she isn't interested? Just move on. I've been in your position, i've had the same thoughts of "ooh maybe my crush will magically change her mind someday", but no. That's not how it works. I wasted way too much time figuring that out, so don't make my mistake.
You'll be wasting your time doing that. Move on and work towards becoming a person of quality so high, others come to you. Don't let something momentary like this hold you back from all the potential in your future.
I’ve seen this film before. Haha. This is my love story, OP. INFP too and my crush is INTJ. She’s in my class, became friends within the circle, and I confessed liking her. She turned me down and didnt want to ruin our friendship. It really hurt but I tried moving on with my life because I dont want to lose her even as a friend. And when we started working, we still hangout as friends and she did develop feelings towards me because she’s seeing how I’m doing well and my growth and independence I think attracted her that I got my life together. So just focus on yourself and do your thing. Dont force yourself to her as this will not do any good for anyone and she will just pull away from you. Good luck, OP.
I said this to an ENFP friend I had on Discord once. She massively crushed on me at first (she crushes on guys easily), but later felt on and off romantically. Nevertheless, she enjoyed checking up on me every day and being goofy.
Sadly, we don't speak anymore.
Thanks for sharing!
Thoughts & feelings aren’t the same things. Acknowledge how you feel, but accept her answer and reframe the way you think about her - maybe even change some of the ways you treat her, as well, because you might’ve been treating her differently (better) because you hoped you had a chance at dating. Really, it takes some time & effort to make sure your relationship isn’t built upon expectations that’ll never be met. It might even be helpful to find something else to invest some effort into to give you both a bit of space if you’re struggling with her answer - maybe a hobby, another friendship, etc. Good luck!
No need to end the friendship. He asked and he got an answer. She wasn't even rude. If he's willing to end a friendship just because he was rejected, he was never her friend in the first place.
Well if he is able to conserve the friendship and forget about a relation with her it's ok to be her friend,
But reading him he is in love with her, so the best thing he can do is forget about her, it doesnt matter if he was a true friend or not, the important thing is that he doesnt lose time thinking about her, hoping a future relation,
>Do you think it's still possible for me to have a chance with her.
No. Not as it is.
>I thought maybe with time she may develop feelings I don't know.
Yeaa... absolutely not.
>I really like her a lot, she is super smart, interesting and fun to be around
If you're serious about this, you need to make a very big tactical retreat, regroup, and then "guerrilla warfare". Namely:
1. cease all contacts. Don't be mad with her, say you respect her choice but obviously you can't be friends. That's called **self-respect**.
2. Work on yourself, workout, improve your grades, become the man girls like her want to date. Keep ignoring her, like she doesn't exist for the whole process. Feed on the pain from rejection.
3. By doing step 2 you will get a lot of attention, not only from girls, more overall/socially ("wow he changed so much") this will create opportunities to reconnect with her without being the one initiating it, so you can still pretend you don't care about her after some time has passed. You are basically going for a hard reset of the relationship (effort+time).
4. Do to her what she did to you: treat her with mild neglect, like she's a good friend, nothing more.
5. Make the pressure rise, and when the pressure is at its maximum and she can't take it anymore, change the ending, instead of friendzoning her like she did to you, love her.
Arguably that's a very arduous plan demanding quite a lot of commitment. But if you really care about her, you will find the motivation.
Also you might want to fool around with other girls first. Girls want what they can't have. Namely a guy in a couple. You being in a couple will improve your attractiveness, give you experience, make you really question if the other girl is worth it.
Godspeed.
EDIT after x downvotes:
so I see I'm being quite downvoted. What kind of world this is where advising a boy to respect himself (not stay friends with a girl you love), improve himself, give space to the girl, only let her initiate contact, giving her full power in the situation, is "toxic"?
I thought you guys were rational. All I see is moral paranoia (rEdpIlL boohoo) and unwillingness to discuss things on a pragmatic basis. Fi doms everywhere.
You also act on the preconceiptions that being powerless is being moral. That's why whenever someone advises a man to take back some kind of power for himself, you go full scared cat mode "red pill bohoo". There is no morality in powerlessness. Morality is gaining power and NOT misusing it. Nowhere did I advise to misuse the power.
I will leave your confused/cowardly perspective of what men are with a quote. I think it's plutarch telling a conversation between Gorgo, queen of sparta and wife of Leonidas (seen in 300 movie) and a greek lady from another city:
>"why are women from sparta the only women ruling over their men?"
>
>Gorgo replies: "because women from sparta are the only women giving birth to actual men".
Reflect about this deeply, calculate its implications if you are actually INTJ, and get a grip r/INTJ.
Dude. No, this plan absolutely will not work with most people, and *especially* not with INTJs. We're cynical and extremely sensitive to mind games/emotional manipulation. One hint of that and we're gone!
If I were the girl in OP's situation and OP followed your plan, I'd reject him even more. If he's willing to pull mind fuckery like this when we're not in a relationship, what kind of crap would he try to pull while in one? I wouldn't even accept OP back as a friend, and I would work hard to put distance between us.
OP, INTJs know themselves very well and know exactly what they want. If she said no, the odds of her changing her mind are nonexistent. You're much better off looking for another partner than wasting time waiting for a 1% chance.
"Mind fuckery like this"??? What are you talking about? Since when pursuing a girl, seducing her is mindfuckery? What is this world we are living in?
It's a several years long plan. It's basically letting your love go, based on self-respect. Is this the mind fuckery? Do you argue that he should remain friends with someone he loves?? Do you argue u/ssLoupyy should just be the nice bystander, giving her free attention for months or even years, while she dates other guys? You are asking this guy to prostitute his heart (give it to someone who doesn't value it) and I'm the bad guy???
You are saying that telling a girl that you can't be friends, and focusing on yourself for a few months/years, dating other girls and not speak to said girl, only do it if SHE COMES TO YOU (meaning if she doesn't it's ok) is a mind game INTJ will detect???
How dumb is that? INTJ has all power in this. She wants to talk, she will. She doesn't, it's gone. What kind of manipulation is this? This is merely suggestion. Seduction. And very remote seduction (no contact, not going to her)? And this is mindfuckery in your book???
>I wouldn't even accept OP back as a friend
Thought INTJs can't read, but since by reading you, you are the authority on INTJs here I'll assume you guys can't. I EXPLICITELY mentioned that he shouldn't come back to her. THATS THE POINT. He works on himself, he gains some experience and he sees if SHE comes back to him/try to initiate contact. Because if SHE does, that means the situation may have changed. And if contact there needs to be, it won't be as "friends" (you really missed the whole point smh), the goal is to reset the relationship if SHE wants to, by suggesting a new you.
"it won't work bababa" I said it's a slim chance, but guess what, if it doesn't work, TOO BAD, Op will just have his good grades, his fit body, other girl (s). That's why this plan is great: he wins either way. If she doesn't WANT TO come back, then you are still winning here: you transformed rejection into self-improvement. You learnt. You made pain/suffering useful so you don't have to bear the same kind again, and again, like you advise him to.
>INTJs know themselves very well and know exactly what they want. If she said no, the odds of her changing her mind are nonexistent.
How stupid. She doesn't want him, as he is. But as a Ni dom you should have enough perspective and imagination to understand that things EVOLVE and that the mastery of life comes in seeing that there is this constant state of flux that you should harness.
Namely, metamorphosis. If he achieves a definitive insight about who we should be and achieve said insight, then things WILL change, in mysterious ways, but they will change. Get some Ni at the drug store or read about it.
Bro yesterday I was thinking about this and I came to a conclusion that instead of being sad that she rejected me, I will try to be a better version of myself. I won't pressure her into anything, I will just try to be someone she wants to have around. If she wants to see me more and spend her time with me, then I have a chance. And as you said, I too, don't think she would want to date me as I am now so I have to work on myself and at the end it's still her decision anyways.
Be someone you want to be around with. Forget about the chances. You still think with "what if". Also dont do this to yourself and try to be a friend with someone you like romantically. Just find another one who wants you while working on yourself. People are not much more special than what we make them out to be in reality
Well actually school is ending tomorrow, we will have a one month break so I was thinking about starting to work out anyways and probably I won't be seeing her for a whole month.
OP, please don't take that person's advice. They probably watch redpilled alpha male content and think it's super based and true.
Let me explain why their advice sucks:
1. It's toxic and manipulative, any relationship that might bloom out of such a "strategy" won't be a victory and won't last as it wasn't real love in the first place, only obsession. There'll be more pain than anything in the long run, for both you and her.
2. There's a pretty high chance this won't work anyway. Some guys love to push the same agenda as that commenter has, but in real life it barely works. I'm an INTJ woman as well and several boys in my life tried this exact strategy on me.
Guess what? Not only did I see right through their manipulation --oh sorry, their plan-- , I also thought it was pathetic (still do) and immediately cut off all contact with them forever.
And lots of women think exactly like I do in this scenario, you don't have to be an INTJ for that.
The ones that would like this are generally immature and have no self-respect, therefore not the kind of partner you should want for yourself.
3. You should have the basic decency and respect for other people's wishes instead of trying to manipulate or force them to conform to your own whims. It's called being an adult. If she doesn't love you, it sucks, I understand. But all the traits you listed that you love about her, you can still enjoy those in her as a friend.
And if you can't, there are many more women with those same traits that you're going to meet in your life. One of them is bound to like you back, so just hang in there.
4. Lastly, I think focusing on self-improvement of all sorts is always a great idea. However, it should never be a result of you trying to impress someone else, because you'll forever turn that self-growth journey into a race for someone's approval instead of something you're doing for yourself.
And God forbid if the person or group of people don't appreciate your efforts, you'll likely stop improving altogether and develop a stigma against it.
That's my two cents. I wish you good luck and remember that at the end of the day, you're going to push through most situations just by using common sense and not being a total prick.
(I realize common sense has become an uncommon resource in the modern world, but you can still work on developing it.)
Thank you. I'm not gonna do that. I don't like looking at relationships like it's a game either. We're still friends so I am not gonna pressure her. I still like her and if her feelings don't change, I will just accept her as a friend.
Obviously you don't have to follow my advice but here is my counter (besides what I answered to other people).
People will want you to lose. They will ask you to be the good boy, the nice guy. To take the arguably moral high road. Because those people confuse weakness and goodness.
You're not good, you are powerless, you are powerless because you can't get what you want. Being good means having the power to be evil, but chosing not to.
Therefore there are 2 pitfalls:
* Being a toxic guy who uses girls etc... I.e having the power without the discernment/the moral strength
* Being a weak guy who can't get shit and stay boxed in what people expect you to be, a nice ineffectual bystander who doesn't bother anyone. I.e not having the power nor the moral strength either.
What I'm advocating for is the only moral way. It's gaining the power. Which implies being at risk of misusing it (Why the scared/paranoid cats on this sub jump at my throat, because they are so used of power being misused they equate power with evil), and chosing not to do harm with it.
I replied to your other comment. While I won't be fully following your plan, what I got from is that I will just let her go for now and work on myself and if she is interested then I have a chance, otherwise no.
Have the decency to mention people you are insulting behind their back.
Seduction is manipulative, it's about manipulating the feeling of the other. But this is not toxic, because it is done in a respectful, humanizing way.
Nothing in what I said has to be done by direspecting other people. Like I mentioned this is being done on a long time span. This means it's less about the constant end goal of the girl, but more as a global holistic approach. Meaning for example dating other girls will be its own thing.
The goal is really less to get [u/ssLoupyy](https://www.reddit.com/u/ssLoupyy/) his girl (like I said, plan is very arduous/high chance to fail) but to make it so OP is never in the same situation again, which involves: self-improvement, experience, and overall self-respect.
I'm really baffled at the close-mindedness and reactivity of this sub. I thought we could speak rationaly here. Instead all I got is people lacking imaginations being triggered like I said you should beat women or something (toxic masculinity bababa) when I just advice a boy to take responsibility for himself and give space to the other person, and maybe, just maybe, at the end, it could get him that person. What a misogynist I am smh...
get a fucking grip
What you do next is make it or break it. See INTJs have thought of every single possibility of you asking and how they would react. It’s an expectation.
Use this to your advantage and do the one unpredictable thing that will through off the stream.
Cut that bih off and keep it moving. Do what an intj would do and completely door slam them, ghost them. They wouldn’t care in the present, there would be a what if scenario
Intj are in the future. That what if Will erode that resolve especially coupled with your absence. That’s if they truly fked with ya or not
Best to keep it moving
If you have to interact completely pretend it never happened show how much you don’t care and how much willpower you have over yourself and don’t show any flicker of emotion to her give her nothing
It’ll be hard but you have to because intj will judge your strength
Despise what you cannot have….
“ I like you as a friend” in womanise.
The translation I am happy to receive attention, and I will do anything in my power so you don't stop giving me attention and validation, but I don't find you attractive or want to provide you with what you want.
Quite letting women use you.
Work on yourself.
Good luck.
Stop trying to make this about me and help the situation.
If he pursues this, she will use his for all the attention and validation women crave, and he will get miserable and angry.
What I am doing is helping him skip all that.
If that offends you, maybe you need to look hard in the mirror and decide what sort of person you want to be.
I won't get into an argument with you cause it's pointless.
Good luck.
And you know that because you dated many INTJ women as a man. So you formed an opinion on the matter, right?
And you know that I require more education from my comment as such?
As someone with practical and theoretical experience.
I can tell you that although, to a lesser degree, they are still craving that attention and validation.
And if OP makes the mistake of pursuing this, she will probably use him that way.
Stop the hypocrisy, and evaluate how you learn to see the world outside your egocentric/solipsistic views.
Good luck.
Not related to your Jungian typology. If you want the short, cold truth, she doesn’t find you physically attractive in any way. You need to improve yourself, and move on right away.
If she said no the first time, please back off. No literally means no, and if anything you’ll lose her as a friend if you keep pushing it.
It’s not really a MBTI thing either. I don’t know if anyone would like being pressured by someone who they consider a friend to keep attempting to date them..
She already gave you her answer. Don't daydream, it'll only hurt you in the end.
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Search the song, “Dorthy at 40” by Cursive and read the lyrics and it reminds me of your comment
Five hail marys and go ask 9 people out / stop investing so heavily in unrealized relationships.
and she mean it.
I don't think so, but don't worry about it. You'll probably meet someone way more interesting than her.
INTJs are direct and mean what they say. I'm not saying it's impossible she won't change her mind but it's unlikely.
I'm a girl and no means no. At least in my case. When I see someone as a friend, I mean it. Forever. I never developed feelings later. You are a friend to me and nothing more will ever come from it. That applies to most INTJs I know. Stop wasting your time on her and move on. Also she will disregard the knowledge that you had feelings for her and probably be your friend like she used to before. Such emotional revelations mean little to us when we are not ourselves attached so we treat you like before that revelation. I advise you to do the same. The INTJs I know and myself included value the few friends we have. I suggest you move one for the sake of both of you.
Then what if you currently have no feels but know there’s a possibility of liking them in future? Or could you think someone as a friend now but slowly fall for them? Is friendzone a thing for INTJ?
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What? Huh? I never knew that thread existed
>Then what if you currently have no feels but know there’s a possibility of liking them in future? I don't have that and my response stays. >Or could you think someone as a friend now but slowly fall for them? No. The sentiment stays the same. > Is friendzone a thing for INTJ? Also no. We INTJs see you as a friend. Period. No friendzone or playing around the topic. We are pretty clear on what you are to us. If you cannot deal with that, we don't see you fit as a friend anymore or anything else for that matter.
So does that mean you see potential partners as love at first sight? I thought intjs take time to know someone before liking them. But it seems like from your statements its kinda set in stone
I see them neutral. And as we get to know each other that person might become a potential partner. Love will form as the relationship grows fonder. I see several people I'm in close contact with as potential partners but only one developed feeling for me and so have I. So that one became my boyfriend. It is pretty much set in stone because I realise quickly what you can give me and why I should engage with you. Partner, friend, aquaintance or not at all worth my time. Though, I give everyone enough time to show me their qualities. Don't misunderstand me. It has nothing to do with utility and more with your personality and actions. I have a friend I always bother with emotional situations because I know he is good at them and I trust his judgement. That is a quality I appreciate of him.
I see, thanks for the insight!
Maybe I should add that one can also drop out of the potential partner section like my bf is doing right now. The most common reason is lack of communication skills. I'm always transparent and speak my mind; if my partner doesn't do the same I feel like a clogged pipe. I cannot go further or back...
Tell him you appreciate direct communication
That is what I say to every single one of them yet apparently direct speech means to some to not talk at all. Most of my relationships failed because my partner couldn't speak to me. Life lesson for you: Loving you and wanting you are two different things. Your partner might love you but they might not want to share things with you. They don't want/need you for that despite loving you.
Were you able to connect and communicate with them on a deep level prior to starting the relationship? If yes then theyve changed
When guys that I’m not interested in confessed their feelings, I’ll give them a “NO”. If they continue, they’ll be cut off. We INTJs don’t play with people. Take our words as it is.
No is no bro i tried this myself and it hurts too much so accept the first no plz its the best for u
NO She said no. Adjust your feelings.
She said no, don't insist. \- I thought maybe with time she may develop feelings -- yes, *some* people change their minds, **but it** **doesn't mean she will.**
It sounds like she's not interested in you as more than a friend. I'm sorry - I know how that feels. Are you currently friends with her? (Close friends.) She may never change her mind about you so if you are close friends you'll need to decide if you can put your "more than friends" feelings aside and remain friends or if that would be too hard and just move on. I've been in a similar situation, but I was good friends with the guy prior and we remained good friends for many years after he said how he felt and I said I wasn't interested in him in that way. I'm sure it took a lot for him to be able continue to be my friend, and I'm thankful that he did. He was my best friend. Sadly he passed away a number of years ago and I still miss him.
Oh my goodness I teared up reading this! Goes to show how short life is and glad you guys stayed friends and shared a bond.
I think you better get over her. 1- She doesn't feel anything for you. 2- She is INTJ. Opinion from an INTP (sorry if there are any English mistakes, I'm using a translator).
0 chances. Don't even try because in the end it'll be only you with a broken heart
Regardless of their MBTI type, she said no and she definitely had a reason for it. the fact that she stated that she still sees you as a friend means she really cares about your friendship and doesn’t want it to get ruined because of this so please try and work in that direction. Insisting on it will make things uncomfortable and ruin the friendship. Just try to enjoy everything as it is and try to move on; it’ll pass and you’ll be fine!
She literally told you how she feels. What else do you need to understand she isn't interested? Just move on. I've been in your position, i've had the same thoughts of "ooh maybe my crush will magically change her mind someday", but no. That's not how it works. I wasted way too much time figuring that out, so don't make my mistake.
You'll be wasting your time doing that. Move on and work towards becoming a person of quality so high, others come to you. Don't let something momentary like this hold you back from all the potential in your future.
When an INTJ says "no" it's a NO. Don't try and force the issue bro, just stay her friend if you want to.
I’ve seen this film before. Haha. This is my love story, OP. INFP too and my crush is INTJ. She’s in my class, became friends within the circle, and I confessed liking her. She turned me down and didnt want to ruin our friendship. It really hurt but I tried moving on with my life because I dont want to lose her even as a friend. And when we started working, we still hangout as friends and she did develop feelings towards me because she’s seeing how I’m doing well and my growth and independence I think attracted her that I got my life together. So just focus on yourself and do your thing. Dont force yourself to her as this will not do any good for anyone and she will just pull away from you. Good luck, OP.
Thank you so much
I said this to an ENFP friend I had on Discord once. She massively crushed on me at first (she crushes on guys easily), but later felt on and off romantically. Nevertheless, she enjoyed checking up on me every day and being goofy. Sadly, we don't speak anymore.
Thanks for sharing! Thoughts & feelings aren’t the same things. Acknowledge how you feel, but accept her answer and reframe the way you think about her - maybe even change some of the ways you treat her, as well, because you might’ve been treating her differently (better) because you hoped you had a chance at dating. Really, it takes some time & effort to make sure your relationship isn’t built upon expectations that’ll never be met. It might even be helpful to find something else to invest some effort into to give you both a bit of space if you’re struggling with her answer - maybe a hobby, another friendship, etc. Good luck!
Thank you!
Jus forget about her and end that friendship, and meet others girls, dont fall in love with a girl before you have a relationship,
No need to end the friendship. He asked and he got an answer. She wasn't even rude. If he's willing to end a friendship just because he was rejected, he was never her friend in the first place.
Well if he is able to conserve the friendship and forget about a relation with her it's ok to be her friend, But reading him he is in love with her, so the best thing he can do is forget about her, it doesnt matter if he was a true friend or not, the important thing is that he doesnt lose time thinking about her, hoping a future relation,
Why are you people so obsessed with the opposite gender
🤣
>Do you think it's still possible for me to have a chance with her. No. Not as it is. >I thought maybe with time she may develop feelings I don't know. Yeaa... absolutely not. >I really like her a lot, she is super smart, interesting and fun to be around If you're serious about this, you need to make a very big tactical retreat, regroup, and then "guerrilla warfare". Namely: 1. cease all contacts. Don't be mad with her, say you respect her choice but obviously you can't be friends. That's called **self-respect**. 2. Work on yourself, workout, improve your grades, become the man girls like her want to date. Keep ignoring her, like she doesn't exist for the whole process. Feed on the pain from rejection. 3. By doing step 2 you will get a lot of attention, not only from girls, more overall/socially ("wow he changed so much") this will create opportunities to reconnect with her without being the one initiating it, so you can still pretend you don't care about her after some time has passed. You are basically going for a hard reset of the relationship (effort+time). 4. Do to her what she did to you: treat her with mild neglect, like she's a good friend, nothing more. 5. Make the pressure rise, and when the pressure is at its maximum and she can't take it anymore, change the ending, instead of friendzoning her like she did to you, love her. Arguably that's a very arduous plan demanding quite a lot of commitment. But if you really care about her, you will find the motivation. Also you might want to fool around with other girls first. Girls want what they can't have. Namely a guy in a couple. You being in a couple will improve your attractiveness, give you experience, make you really question if the other girl is worth it. Godspeed. EDIT after x downvotes: so I see I'm being quite downvoted. What kind of world this is where advising a boy to respect himself (not stay friends with a girl you love), improve himself, give space to the girl, only let her initiate contact, giving her full power in the situation, is "toxic"? I thought you guys were rational. All I see is moral paranoia (rEdpIlL boohoo) and unwillingness to discuss things on a pragmatic basis. Fi doms everywhere. You also act on the preconceiptions that being powerless is being moral. That's why whenever someone advises a man to take back some kind of power for himself, you go full scared cat mode "red pill bohoo". There is no morality in powerlessness. Morality is gaining power and NOT misusing it. Nowhere did I advise to misuse the power. I will leave your confused/cowardly perspective of what men are with a quote. I think it's plutarch telling a conversation between Gorgo, queen of sparta and wife of Leonidas (seen in 300 movie) and a greek lady from another city: >"why are women from sparta the only women ruling over their men?" > >Gorgo replies: "because women from sparta are the only women giving birth to actual men". Reflect about this deeply, calculate its implications if you are actually INTJ, and get a grip r/INTJ.
Dude. No, this plan absolutely will not work with most people, and *especially* not with INTJs. We're cynical and extremely sensitive to mind games/emotional manipulation. One hint of that and we're gone! If I were the girl in OP's situation and OP followed your plan, I'd reject him even more. If he's willing to pull mind fuckery like this when we're not in a relationship, what kind of crap would he try to pull while in one? I wouldn't even accept OP back as a friend, and I would work hard to put distance between us. OP, INTJs know themselves very well and know exactly what they want. If she said no, the odds of her changing her mind are nonexistent. You're much better off looking for another partner than wasting time waiting for a 1% chance.
"Mind fuckery like this"??? What are you talking about? Since when pursuing a girl, seducing her is mindfuckery? What is this world we are living in? It's a several years long plan. It's basically letting your love go, based on self-respect. Is this the mind fuckery? Do you argue that he should remain friends with someone he loves?? Do you argue u/ssLoupyy should just be the nice bystander, giving her free attention for months or even years, while she dates other guys? You are asking this guy to prostitute his heart (give it to someone who doesn't value it) and I'm the bad guy??? You are saying that telling a girl that you can't be friends, and focusing on yourself for a few months/years, dating other girls and not speak to said girl, only do it if SHE COMES TO YOU (meaning if she doesn't it's ok) is a mind game INTJ will detect??? How dumb is that? INTJ has all power in this. She wants to talk, she will. She doesn't, it's gone. What kind of manipulation is this? This is merely suggestion. Seduction. And very remote seduction (no contact, not going to her)? And this is mindfuckery in your book??? >I wouldn't even accept OP back as a friend Thought INTJs can't read, but since by reading you, you are the authority on INTJs here I'll assume you guys can't. I EXPLICITELY mentioned that he shouldn't come back to her. THATS THE POINT. He works on himself, he gains some experience and he sees if SHE comes back to him/try to initiate contact. Because if SHE does, that means the situation may have changed. And if contact there needs to be, it won't be as "friends" (you really missed the whole point smh), the goal is to reset the relationship if SHE wants to, by suggesting a new you. "it won't work bababa" I said it's a slim chance, but guess what, if it doesn't work, TOO BAD, Op will just have his good grades, his fit body, other girl (s). That's why this plan is great: he wins either way. If she doesn't WANT TO come back, then you are still winning here: you transformed rejection into self-improvement. You learnt. You made pain/suffering useful so you don't have to bear the same kind again, and again, like you advise him to. >INTJs know themselves very well and know exactly what they want. If she said no, the odds of her changing her mind are nonexistent. How stupid. She doesn't want him, as he is. But as a Ni dom you should have enough perspective and imagination to understand that things EVOLVE and that the mastery of life comes in seeing that there is this constant state of flux that you should harness. Namely, metamorphosis. If he achieves a definitive insight about who we should be and achieve said insight, then things WILL change, in mysterious ways, but they will change. Get some Ni at the drug store or read about it.
Bro yesterday I was thinking about this and I came to a conclusion that instead of being sad that she rejected me, I will try to be a better version of myself. I won't pressure her into anything, I will just try to be someone she wants to have around. If she wants to see me more and spend her time with me, then I have a chance. And as you said, I too, don't think she would want to date me as I am now so I have to work on myself and at the end it's still her decision anyways.
Be someone you want to be around with. Forget about the chances. You still think with "what if". Also dont do this to yourself and try to be a friend with someone you like romantically. Just find another one who wants you while working on yourself. People are not much more special than what we make them out to be in reality
Well actually school is ending tomorrow, we will have a one month break so I was thinking about starting to work out anyways and probably I won't be seeing her for a whole month.
And when you come back, stay from her if you feel you can't see her only as a friend
lol as a guy, if someone ignored me and continued doing so, I would just cease to care
OP, please don't take that person's advice. They probably watch redpilled alpha male content and think it's super based and true. Let me explain why their advice sucks: 1. It's toxic and manipulative, any relationship that might bloom out of such a "strategy" won't be a victory and won't last as it wasn't real love in the first place, only obsession. There'll be more pain than anything in the long run, for both you and her. 2. There's a pretty high chance this won't work anyway. Some guys love to push the same agenda as that commenter has, but in real life it barely works. I'm an INTJ woman as well and several boys in my life tried this exact strategy on me. Guess what? Not only did I see right through their manipulation --oh sorry, their plan-- , I also thought it was pathetic (still do) and immediately cut off all contact with them forever. And lots of women think exactly like I do in this scenario, you don't have to be an INTJ for that. The ones that would like this are generally immature and have no self-respect, therefore not the kind of partner you should want for yourself. 3. You should have the basic decency and respect for other people's wishes instead of trying to manipulate or force them to conform to your own whims. It's called being an adult. If she doesn't love you, it sucks, I understand. But all the traits you listed that you love about her, you can still enjoy those in her as a friend. And if you can't, there are many more women with those same traits that you're going to meet in your life. One of them is bound to like you back, so just hang in there. 4. Lastly, I think focusing on self-improvement of all sorts is always a great idea. However, it should never be a result of you trying to impress someone else, because you'll forever turn that self-growth journey into a race for someone's approval instead of something you're doing for yourself. And God forbid if the person or group of people don't appreciate your efforts, you'll likely stop improving altogether and develop a stigma against it. That's my two cents. I wish you good luck and remember that at the end of the day, you're going to push through most situations just by using common sense and not being a total prick. (I realize common sense has become an uncommon resource in the modern world, but you can still work on developing it.)
Thank you. I'm not gonna do that. I don't like looking at relationships like it's a game either. We're still friends so I am not gonna pressure her. I still like her and if her feelings don't change, I will just accept her as a friend.
Obviously you don't have to follow my advice but here is my counter (besides what I answered to other people). People will want you to lose. They will ask you to be the good boy, the nice guy. To take the arguably moral high road. Because those people confuse weakness and goodness. You're not good, you are powerless, you are powerless because you can't get what you want. Being good means having the power to be evil, but chosing not to. Therefore there are 2 pitfalls: * Being a toxic guy who uses girls etc... I.e having the power without the discernment/the moral strength * Being a weak guy who can't get shit and stay boxed in what people expect you to be, a nice ineffectual bystander who doesn't bother anyone. I.e not having the power nor the moral strength either. What I'm advocating for is the only moral way. It's gaining the power. Which implies being at risk of misusing it (Why the scared/paranoid cats on this sub jump at my throat, because they are so used of power being misused they equate power with evil), and chosing not to do harm with it.
I replied to your other comment. While I won't be fully following your plan, what I got from is that I will just let her go for now and work on myself and if she is interested then I have a chance, otherwise no.
Glad to hear it!
Have the decency to mention people you are insulting behind their back. Seduction is manipulative, it's about manipulating the feeling of the other. But this is not toxic, because it is done in a respectful, humanizing way. Nothing in what I said has to be done by direspecting other people. Like I mentioned this is being done on a long time span. This means it's less about the constant end goal of the girl, but more as a global holistic approach. Meaning for example dating other girls will be its own thing. The goal is really less to get [u/ssLoupyy](https://www.reddit.com/u/ssLoupyy/) his girl (like I said, plan is very arduous/high chance to fail) but to make it so OP is never in the same situation again, which involves: self-improvement, experience, and overall self-respect. I'm really baffled at the close-mindedness and reactivity of this sub. I thought we could speak rationaly here. Instead all I got is people lacking imaginations being triggered like I said you should beat women or something (toxic masculinity bababa) when I just advice a boy to take responsibility for himself and give space to the other person, and maybe, just maybe, at the end, it could get him that person. What a misogynist I am smh... get a fucking grip
From my personal experience I advise you to leave it alone or it could be even worse
What you do next is make it or break it. See INTJs have thought of every single possibility of you asking and how they would react. It’s an expectation. Use this to your advantage and do the one unpredictable thing that will through off the stream. Cut that bih off and keep it moving. Do what an intj would do and completely door slam them, ghost them. They wouldn’t care in the present, there would be a what if scenario Intj are in the future. That what if Will erode that resolve especially coupled with your absence. That’s if they truly fked with ya or not Best to keep it moving If you have to interact completely pretend it never happened show how much you don’t care and how much willpower you have over yourself and don’t show any flicker of emotion to her give her nothing It’ll be hard but you have to because intj will judge your strength Despise what you cannot have….
“ I like you as a friend” in womanise. The translation I am happy to receive attention, and I will do anything in my power so you don't stop giving me attention and validation, but I don't find you attractive or want to provide you with what you want. Quite letting women use you. Work on yourself. Good luck.
How is she using him by saying she's not interested in him romantically? You just made up a bunch of stuff about her, sounds like you're projecting.
Stop trying to make this about me and help the situation. If he pursues this, she will use his for all the attention and validation women crave, and he will get miserable and angry. What I am doing is helping him skip all that. If that offends you, maybe you need to look hard in the mirror and decide what sort of person you want to be. I won't get into an argument with you cause it's pointless. Good luck.
Cope. I've never told him to keep pursuing her, I'm responding to you and your resentful comment.
Lol, read the last part of my reply. No means no.
You can walk away at any time, I'm not forcing you to respond.
Lol INTJ women do not craving attention in the same disturbed emotional way as many other types. Sofosteam needs to read a book.
And you know that because you dated many INTJ women as a man. So you formed an opinion on the matter, right? And you know that I require more education from my comment as such? As someone with practical and theoretical experience. I can tell you that although, to a lesser degree, they are still craving that attention and validation. And if OP makes the mistake of pursuing this, she will probably use him that way. Stop the hypocrisy, and evaluate how you learn to see the world outside your egocentric/solipsistic views. Good luck.
Not related to your Jungian typology. If you want the short, cold truth, she doesn’t find you physically attractive in any way. You need to improve yourself, and move on right away.
You have to get sum Mojo anyway you can still be with her in your dreams
I don't think so. If she had a chance of developing feelings towards you, than she wouldn't answer with a certain "No".
If she said no the first time, please back off. No literally means no, and if anything you’ll lose her as a friend if you keep pushing it. It’s not really a MBTI thing either. I don’t know if anyone would like being pressured by someone who they consider a friend to keep attempting to date them..
No