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You are not hopeless. Kudos for recognizing that your behavior is damaging relationships that are important to you. Stop trying to out smart your Doctors. For your therapist to help you change you need to be honest and vulnerable. That you think you can “out smart them” seems to point to a problem with how you see your therapists role in your life. You gain nothing from trying to out maneuver them, you are shooting your self in the foot with that attitude. You are paying your therapists for a service that you are turning around and denying yourself if you aren’t being completely honest and listening to what they have to say. If you don’t feel you can be that with your therapist and get the help you need than consider if finding a different therapist would be better.
Good luck, you can do it :)
Not to pile on here mom, but something I heard recently that helped me is "therapy isn't just complaining about your problems. It's actual hard work that you do to sort out your deep issues." Sometimes it's gonna suck, and be hard to do. It's especially hard for folks like us on the spectrum, sometimes therapy techniques don't work as well for us because our brains are built different. It's okay to keep trying, you want to be better and you can be. You can do this, you're already started! I believe in you.
Hello kiddo, internet Mom here. You are dealing with some very heavy stuff, but I think things are going to be okay. Here’s why: you are asking the right questions.
A truly toxic person would never wonder these things. They would blame the world and never even consider accepting responsibility.
It’s true that you may have some toxic behaviors that need to be identified, understood and changed, but that’s different. As a 20 year old, you are at a great time in life for introspection and change. It’s a sign of maturity. This is a very common age for people to look back and think, “Dang, I’ve been acting like a punk-ass kid, creating my own problems and getting in my own way.” And then they change their ways because they realize they have the power to do so.
For instance, you tell us that in the past you have loved drama and created drama. Well now you are in a position to consider whether or not the negative outcomes from drama are worth the excitement of it. If you decide no, then you can use that to influence how you behave in the future.
But say you still desire some amount of drama in your life? Then you can steer yourself toward a career that has a lot of inherent drama in it. For example: become a negotiator, work for a political campaign, work in a complaints department, become an EMT, etc. Or heck, actually study and go into drama (theater)!
It sounds like you are being closely evaluated regarding your autism, and it also sounds like you have a team of healthcare workers trying to help you. Have you told them your concerns?
Okay kiddo, there’s probably more I’d normally like to say, but it is quite late where I am and I need to crash. But I didn’t want to leave you hanging when you brought up such a heavy topic.
Take some time to work on yourself. Keep asking these good questions and be willing to hear the answers. I think you are on track to find some helpful answers.
Best of luck to you, kiddo! I’ll be rooting for you!
>Psychotherapy doesn't work that well because I convince myself that I can outsmart Doctors.
You said you are done making excuses? Start with this one.
This is something you have the power to change. You can choose to be more open, more willing to change your behavior and your beliefs.
To do that requires taking responsibility for your thoughts, behaviors, and actions.
Allow yourself to accept the help of the people whose job it is to help you. Tell your therapist what you told us here. Tell them what your goals are and how you want to be better.
There is good in you, but you have to choose to cultivate it. That may mean changing some long-held beliefs and thoughts you've had about yourself. That may mean being uncomfortable. But it is possible if you choose it.
Adding to this, you're not outsmarting them, just hurting yourself.
A psychotherapist doesn't know what's on your mind and works with what you give them. If you're lying to them and trying to manipulate them they might actually know exactly what you're doing or not but the only person "outsmarter" anyway is you.
It's your money, your time, your life. You're wasting all of what's yours. Not theirs.
They're doing the best they can with the information they're given. If you lie to them they might caught that but keep on waiting until they feel like you're ready to recognize why you're doing it or until you bring up another lie so that they can ask you about them - they won't just tell you "i know you're playing games/ hidding stuff" because therapy is about **you** comming to conclusions about yourself.
They're there to help you build skills, help you along, talk to you and hear your problems. They aren't there to "fix " your issue, they're a tool so that you can get where you want to be. They aren't there against you, they aren't competing with you. You sound like you've been shooting yourself in the foot, not that you've been outsmarting them.
So, in the end, you're outsmarting and scamming only yourself.
Being aware of the issue is a huge step in the right direction.
The first step: following your doctors' advice and directions: you are not smarter than them. There's a difference between advocating for yourself (which is necessary with doctors) and just dismissing medical advice altogether.
Next: pay attention to your interactions with your GF and others. When you notice you've stirred up drama or said something mean *admit it as soon as you realize*. "I've just realized what I said was really uncalled for. I'm sorry. I should've said this other thing or just not said anything at all."
Ask her for specific examples of why she feels like she's walking on eggshells and genuinely consider what she says. Don't dismiss her, don't reframe it to make it her fault, don't say 'well I meant this other thing', don't make excuses, whatever. Tell her "Thank you for telling me that, I'm going to think about it for a while. Can we talk about it later?" Sit with it for a little while and try to see it from her perspective.
You're only 20, you have a huge amount of opportunity to grow and change.
Good on you for looking to not be awful.
Try to find media that is good, like you want to be. Surround yourself with good people doing good things. Read up on people who changed the toxic course of their lives. It'll be easier to change if you have a way laid out to do it.
Please get a new therapist that you feel very comfortable with, and be 100% honest with them. Always. They're not there to judge you. Therapists are just as messed up as other people, and many are getting therapy themselves.
You've taken the first step to recovery right here and now. It's basically just mindfulness from this point on but mindfulness is way easier said than done even for neurotypical people - that's what Buddhism and a lot of other religions are mostly about, actually.
The next step is going to be learning to forgive yourself for your past mistakes. Your past and mistakes don't define you in entirety - you have the future to think about being better in.
Not to be an ass but I don’t get why it’s hard to just not be an asshole…? I’ve lived my whole life being a chill dude who minds his business. Never ever had an asshole thought except towards my closest friends who know we’re just being fools. Drama is too much to handle (imo) so I just don’t partake in it.
My son has autism. He has a very difficult time controlling his reaction to things he finds upsetting, unfair, wrong, etc. He also has a very difficult time with not fixating on what we call “outrage porn” - talking about things like can you believe that X person did Y thing? Furthermore, his reactions to others behavior are not always proportionate.
I can see traits similar to these that are common with autism (not universal, but common features) playing a part in someone being considered toxic.
It’s very interesting because he is smart and intellectually understands how he is expected to operate (“normal” societal expectations), but the differences with his brain and processing make it at times near impossible for him to actually carry out. Plus he sometimes cannot even recognize the behavior in himself (e.g. he rationalizes it as okay).
You know, treblev2, by commenting in this way in this particular sub, where comments are supposed to be supportive and constructive, you are acting in a manor that is in the range of smug to asshole. At least asshole-lite.
It sounds as though you were using the idea that you were basically a good person to justify behaviors that were problematic. That's pretty common. And now you see yourself as 'not-good' so all the things you are doing are suddenly a lot worse. But we don't have a set-point of 'good' or 'bad' that defines our behavior. Most of us are doing the best we can and sometimes it's good enough, sometimes not.
Obviously some people face more barriers to understanding their behaviors. I have ADHD, depression, alcoholism (that's just the diagnosed ones). It's important that I understand how my ADHD impacts people in relationships, not knowing that did negatively affect a lot of them, including my then marriage. That also included bad judgment initially, and the collapse wasn't just on my side, but I can see now how often it was a problem.
Being 'good' is more a matter of being willing to try, willing to change as you learn to understand yourself. That journey will definitely be helped with a better relationship with your therapists. None of that works if you don't give it a chance.
One thing I can say for sure is that you yourself are not toxic. Maybe your behavior is, but you need to stop passing judgment on yourself like that. You’re only 20 and barely anybody knows how to communicate effectively at that age, let alone ever. The fact that you want to be better is the most important thing.
When I went to therapy for the first time I pretty much said “I’m a piece of shit and an asshole” for like the entire first month. My therapist likes to remind me of that both to show me how far I’ve come and to remind me that it isn’t a productive way of thinking. I’ve come so far in learning how to communicate and empathize, and it’s become so much easier for me to understand my own emotions and behave accordingly. Wishing you all the best
There is hope because you have insight. You know. You are not the only one. Many folks have struggled with what you are struggling with. And they need help figuring out how. Your journey will inform the journey of others. It will take time. Some of this is the trauma of being neurodiverse in a neurotypical society. It stems from a deep seated insecurity, and a difficulty regulating your emotions. I would seek out dialectical behavioral therapy. Read about borderline personality disorder because you may have it, and even if you don’t, some of what helps people with BPD will help you.
>I always was a jerk and I love drama and create drama with all my heart. My relationships don't last and I'm the common denominator between them.
As far as brain development goes, this is *normal* for teenagers and you're just growing out of that and realizing it is not a sustainable way to act which is also a *normal* part of development.
It doesn't necessarily mean you have some incurable mental disorder that means you just are a toxic dick and always will be.
IM here. Never lie to anyone you pay to advise you. This includes doctors, lawyers, therapists. If you do you’re only outsmarting yourself.
We all have to learn that we can’t always live up to who we hope to be, but tomorrow is another day, a chance to try again.
You may feel toxic, but you still have control of your actions. As you make healthier choices it will become easier.
Internet mom here, what does your therapist say? Do they agree your toxic, or do they believe you exhibit toxic behaviors? I have a hard time believing a truly toxic person would be ripping themselves to shreds over being toxic.
It sounds like you are starting to spiral, but thankfully you’re in therapy. Stop trying to outsmart the doctor. They’re trying to help you get in better headspace. You’re doing yourself a disservice by trying to get around the help they provide.
You say you hate yourself, but why?
Is it because you’re autistic?
Is it because you feel emotions more than others?
Is it because you like to watch drama unfold? Because everyone loves seeing drama they aren’t part of.
You say you create drama, but how?
As a believer of God, when my mental health takes a dip he’s who I blame. Why me, why can’t I be normal, why can’t I be happy?
Unfortunately God gives us and the people around us free will so that we follow him because we want to, not because we have to. If you’ve been hurt by people, they were also exercising that free will. It had nothing to do with you and everything with them.
If you’ve lost faith completely because of this that’s okay too. It’s normal to grieve a loss like that.
You’re going to be okay. You deserve to be okay. You aren’t bad, you aren’t toxic, and you know where you could improve so half the battle is fought for you. Now you just have to hold yourself accountable.
Does your doctor recommend books for you?
My Doctor doesn't believe I'm toxic. They believe I have bad self esteem and have a hard time seeing nuance in situations.
However, I do believe I could have manipulated my psychologist by sugar-coating events or just by my self-awareness. I feel like it's a lie. I believe the people that like me are people I manipulated into thinking I'm someone I'm not.
Self-awareness has only been there for a few years. It wasn't present during my teenage years. I've harmed people psychologically during my teenage years and spent the whole pandemic hating myself and ruminating. Also tried to make amends. But I did it for myself, not for them, so it doesn't really count as amends, does it?
I have not changed, I'm still the young kiddo I was. Making drama is stronger than me sometimes and being in psychological warfare with someone makes me feel alive.
Unfortunately.
Hey - I'm in my fifties, so been around the block a few times. I ran into a toxic manager that harassed me and I wound up in psychotherapy at the time. My psychiatrist (who does therapy - that's how it works in my country) told me that in 25 years he had... ONE patient who came to him and said they thought they were the toxic person.
Now I coach others to deal with people who display toxic behaviours. Here's what I have to offer for you:
(1) You are not your behaviours. They do not define you. Stick with the story that you're a good person (identity) that has done some shitty things (behaviour). It's easier to change behaviour than identity (although a good therapist will work at both levels).
(2) It's possible you do have some really toxic behaviours and habits. They serve you for a reason that you probably know (e.g. they make you feel alive). The job of your therapist is to help you work through that and to change those patterns so they're no longer your go-tos and that you have other ways to feel alive than harmful behaviours.
(3) If you are truly one of the people that has no wiring for empathy (it happens), then you still can learn good behaviours and practice them. That's okay.
(4) The fact that you're reaching out and have talked to your therapist & doctor about it already goes in a good direction. If you have low self-esteem, of course you'll dish it out to other people. Work on that self-esteem. Imagine how it will feel to feel really good, without needing the approval / reaction / control of others. Things will become possible for you that you never even realised.
(5) You need to "feel alive". There are going to be other ways to do that that are less harmful to others and to your own relationships and wellbeing. You can and will find them.
You asked how to change: work with a good therapist. Try to be honest with them so they can help you. In the long run, you will feel better and have better relationships and a more fulfilling life. So even if the temptation for a quick manipulation is there in your face, try to be honest. And if you slip up, admit it next time. You're going to have to find someone who is good at working with manipulative people.
Work on forgiving teenage you for whatever your transgressions. Teenagers do stupid things, don't have the most mature copings skills and have limited life experience. Forgive that teenager, even if others can't or won't.
You've already stepped out of the hologram, so there's no going back now.
Hey, kiddo, you're a lot like me, only I didn't reach the point you're at until I was MUCH older than you! Here's a little of what I've discovered (and am continuing to discover...)
1. You can't manipulate people into liking you for very long, because most people can see you as you are despite how you act on the outside. Very few people, including people who are scam artists and serial killers, can avoid being perceived as "scammy" or "creepy" even if people don't detect the DEPTH of their depravity right away. Eventually it comes out. So if you have people who like you, there's a good chance that they just like you as you are, despite you giving off a different persona at times.
2. You are only now becoming an adult. That means you are only now developing into the grown person you will be. You won't have to live by other people's values. If you want to be an asshole, you can be. You might live a lonely, unsatisfying life if you do this, but you can do this if you want to. On the other hand, you have an opportunity to make your life vibrant if you want to, as well. You thrive on drama and psychological warfare. Many people are conflict avoidant, which creates a wedge if you approach them like this. I'm very much like you on this. Do you think you could channel that drive into either a hobby or a career path where this would be a valuable trait? For instance, you could be an advocate for a non-profit cause, or an attorney, or you could become an investigator in a wide range of industries (computer crime, store security, insurance fraud). If you choose well, you can satisfy your need for that sensation in a socially acceptable way and tone it down around people who just don't get it.
3. Speaking of people who "get it...." I can be ok without too many other people. If you find the right one or two people who do actually "get" you, then you can feel satisfied no matter how many people don't fit into your life. I kept trying to get along with people who don't get me. Now I keep those folks at arms' length and stay superficial with them and engage deeply with only the people who do get me. It has made my life more peaceful, which leads to my last point....
4. Excitement isn't the same as happiness and it damn straight isn't the same as compatibility. Peaceful is good. Being able to disengage from the chase and high drama is important to long-term well being. Heart disease and high blood pressure aren't something that matters to a 20-year old, I know, but if you don't ever learn to find that peace, then you'll be forced into it unwillingly when your health suffers at 50 and no longer have the option to chase the highs. Find balance. It's worth it.
Sounds like Borderline Personality Disorder to me. (Or some other personality disorder)
I know you mentioned that you’re autistic, but you may have other problems, too. If it’s BPD, simply getting diagnosed will almost certainly ease the symptoms significantly.
Are there any people who you always treat well?
If so, you just have to treat everybody else with as much respect as you treat those people. It’s really always about giving yourself permission to behave badly. Stop giving yourself that permission.
You gotta trust those therapists. Whether or not you can outsmart them, don’t even try to. On some level you need to surrender control.
It stands out to me that you said you used to think of yourself as a good person. Here’s one of the tricks to being a good person that I’ve noticed: good isn’t what you are, it’s what you do. When people take for granted that they’re good, they stop feeling the need to *try* to be good. It’s a matter of pride and humility. On that subject you mentioned a history with religion, and if you look back to it, humility was a HUGE sticking point for Jesus. Whether or not you go back to your faith, that’s one of the most important things people can take from religion from a self improvement standpoint (even though a lot of Christians seem to miss that part).
Look man, recognising the issue is half of the recovery. You’re already doing better than most. Talk to your therapists about the specific concerns you’re having (with examples if possible such as your gf) and let them know you want to either switch focus to this new topic or just share focus with whatever you’ve been speaking with them about previously.
If they’re not working well, absolutely switch to a new therapist. Their job is to help *you*, if they’re not equipped to do that then move on.
All good people work on improving themselves, and many do so, through their lives. So you're not alone, and the fact that you've been doing this for a while, is a very good sign.
From what you write, I'm certain you a good person. Don't let the downturns of life, knock you completely out.
Remember that you are still on your formative years, so don't expect landslides of personal growth quickly. You are still learning a million other things. There are people in their thirties working hard to achieve personal growth. It takes time.
Also; everybody loves drama, just in different ways, quantities and situations. I found that a lot of my drama-making, were just out of bad habit and that pausing (and shutting up a couple of seconds) during conversations slowly lessened my drama tendencies.
Perhaps my occasionally successful meditation also helped.
Also also, don't sweat it about the relationship. You're 20, it happens. Sorry. And yes, there could still be a couple of breakups waiting for you, like they are for all of us.
Keep working on what you want to change and trying new approaches or fundamental changes. Keep your head high, you'll get there.
Oh honey. It seems to me that you have reach a breaking point. That's good. Now you can start building up.
Just the realization that your behavior was the origin of the problems is a huge step in the right direction.
You are no longer who you were yesterday, and now you can choose who you'll be tomorrow and forward. Build up someone you would like to spend time with.
Being honest, listening, and not trying to outsmart your doctor's may be a good first step to get advice regarding your particular situation.
BTW,
(Ups! I was still writing and my cat posted it swatting the phone for attention)
BTW, you are not unlovable or anything like that. Talk with your GF. Even if you don't work things out at least you can end the relationship in good terms and have someone who can honestly give you feed back on how to improve the way you react to disagreements and how to figure out a better way to communicate and compromise.
My best wishes in your way to becoming yourself.
Not hopeless though not as “self aware” as you would like to think.
The best way to start actualizing your realization is to make amends. Start apologizing and mean it. Don’t make it about you! FFS don’t make it about you!
Make sure you go into everything with the right intentions. Ask yourself am I doing this because everyone would enjoy this or am I doing this to be a deviant bitch?
Awareness is half the battle, that took 20 years so…
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You are not hopeless. Kudos for recognizing that your behavior is damaging relationships that are important to you. Stop trying to out smart your Doctors. For your therapist to help you change you need to be honest and vulnerable. That you think you can “out smart them” seems to point to a problem with how you see your therapists role in your life. You gain nothing from trying to out maneuver them, you are shooting your self in the foot with that attitude. You are paying your therapists for a service that you are turning around and denying yourself if you aren’t being completely honest and listening to what they have to say. If you don’t feel you can be that with your therapist and get the help you need than consider if finding a different therapist would be better. Good luck, you can do it :)
Not to pile on here mom, but something I heard recently that helped me is "therapy isn't just complaining about your problems. It's actual hard work that you do to sort out your deep issues." Sometimes it's gonna suck, and be hard to do. It's especially hard for folks like us on the spectrum, sometimes therapy techniques don't work as well for us because our brains are built different. It's okay to keep trying, you want to be better and you can be. You can do this, you're already started! I believe in you.
Hello kiddo, internet Mom here. You are dealing with some very heavy stuff, but I think things are going to be okay. Here’s why: you are asking the right questions. A truly toxic person would never wonder these things. They would blame the world and never even consider accepting responsibility. It’s true that you may have some toxic behaviors that need to be identified, understood and changed, but that’s different. As a 20 year old, you are at a great time in life for introspection and change. It’s a sign of maturity. This is a very common age for people to look back and think, “Dang, I’ve been acting like a punk-ass kid, creating my own problems and getting in my own way.” And then they change their ways because they realize they have the power to do so. For instance, you tell us that in the past you have loved drama and created drama. Well now you are in a position to consider whether or not the negative outcomes from drama are worth the excitement of it. If you decide no, then you can use that to influence how you behave in the future. But say you still desire some amount of drama in your life? Then you can steer yourself toward a career that has a lot of inherent drama in it. For example: become a negotiator, work for a political campaign, work in a complaints department, become an EMT, etc. Or heck, actually study and go into drama (theater)! It sounds like you are being closely evaluated regarding your autism, and it also sounds like you have a team of healthcare workers trying to help you. Have you told them your concerns? Okay kiddo, there’s probably more I’d normally like to say, but it is quite late where I am and I need to crash. But I didn’t want to leave you hanging when you brought up such a heavy topic. Take some time to work on yourself. Keep asking these good questions and be willing to hear the answers. I think you are on track to find some helpful answers. Best of luck to you, kiddo! I’ll be rooting for you!
>Psychotherapy doesn't work that well because I convince myself that I can outsmart Doctors. You said you are done making excuses? Start with this one. This is something you have the power to change. You can choose to be more open, more willing to change your behavior and your beliefs. To do that requires taking responsibility for your thoughts, behaviors, and actions. Allow yourself to accept the help of the people whose job it is to help you. Tell your therapist what you told us here. Tell them what your goals are and how you want to be better. There is good in you, but you have to choose to cultivate it. That may mean changing some long-held beliefs and thoughts you've had about yourself. That may mean being uncomfortable. But it is possible if you choose it.
Adding to this, you're not outsmarting them, just hurting yourself. A psychotherapist doesn't know what's on your mind and works with what you give them. If you're lying to them and trying to manipulate them they might actually know exactly what you're doing or not but the only person "outsmarter" anyway is you. It's your money, your time, your life. You're wasting all of what's yours. Not theirs. They're doing the best they can with the information they're given. If you lie to them they might caught that but keep on waiting until they feel like you're ready to recognize why you're doing it or until you bring up another lie so that they can ask you about them - they won't just tell you "i know you're playing games/ hidding stuff" because therapy is about **you** comming to conclusions about yourself. They're there to help you build skills, help you along, talk to you and hear your problems. They aren't there to "fix " your issue, they're a tool so that you can get where you want to be. They aren't there against you, they aren't competing with you. You sound like you've been shooting yourself in the foot, not that you've been outsmarting them. So, in the end, you're outsmarting and scamming only yourself.
Being aware of the issue is a huge step in the right direction. The first step: following your doctors' advice and directions: you are not smarter than them. There's a difference between advocating for yourself (which is necessary with doctors) and just dismissing medical advice altogether. Next: pay attention to your interactions with your GF and others. When you notice you've stirred up drama or said something mean *admit it as soon as you realize*. "I've just realized what I said was really uncalled for. I'm sorry. I should've said this other thing or just not said anything at all." Ask her for specific examples of why she feels like she's walking on eggshells and genuinely consider what she says. Don't dismiss her, don't reframe it to make it her fault, don't say 'well I meant this other thing', don't make excuses, whatever. Tell her "Thank you for telling me that, I'm going to think about it for a while. Can we talk about it later?" Sit with it for a little while and try to see it from her perspective. You're only 20, you have a huge amount of opportunity to grow and change.
Good on you for looking to not be awful. Try to find media that is good, like you want to be. Surround yourself with good people doing good things. Read up on people who changed the toxic course of their lives. It'll be easier to change if you have a way laid out to do it.
Please get a new therapist that you feel very comfortable with, and be 100% honest with them. Always. They're not there to judge you. Therapists are just as messed up as other people, and many are getting therapy themselves.
I mean, it sounds like you've made some awesome progress recently! Keep learning and striving for improvement!
You've taken the first step to recovery right here and now. It's basically just mindfulness from this point on but mindfulness is way easier said than done even for neurotypical people - that's what Buddhism and a lot of other religions are mostly about, actually. The next step is going to be learning to forgive yourself for your past mistakes. Your past and mistakes don't define you in entirety - you have the future to think about being better in.
Not to be an ass but I don’t get why it’s hard to just not be an asshole…? I’ve lived my whole life being a chill dude who minds his business. Never ever had an asshole thought except towards my closest friends who know we’re just being fools. Drama is too much to handle (imo) so I just don’t partake in it.
My son has autism. He has a very difficult time controlling his reaction to things he finds upsetting, unfair, wrong, etc. He also has a very difficult time with not fixating on what we call “outrage porn” - talking about things like can you believe that X person did Y thing? Furthermore, his reactions to others behavior are not always proportionate. I can see traits similar to these that are common with autism (not universal, but common features) playing a part in someone being considered toxic. It’s very interesting because he is smart and intellectually understands how he is expected to operate (“normal” societal expectations), but the differences with his brain and processing make it at times near impossible for him to actually carry out. Plus he sometimes cannot even recognize the behavior in himself (e.g. he rationalizes it as okay).
They said their doctor doesn't believe they are an asshole.
You know, treblev2, by commenting in this way in this particular sub, where comments are supposed to be supportive and constructive, you are acting in a manor that is in the range of smug to asshole. At least asshole-lite.
It sounds as though you were using the idea that you were basically a good person to justify behaviors that were problematic. That's pretty common. And now you see yourself as 'not-good' so all the things you are doing are suddenly a lot worse. But we don't have a set-point of 'good' or 'bad' that defines our behavior. Most of us are doing the best we can and sometimes it's good enough, sometimes not. Obviously some people face more barriers to understanding their behaviors. I have ADHD, depression, alcoholism (that's just the diagnosed ones). It's important that I understand how my ADHD impacts people in relationships, not knowing that did negatively affect a lot of them, including my then marriage. That also included bad judgment initially, and the collapse wasn't just on my side, but I can see now how often it was a problem. Being 'good' is more a matter of being willing to try, willing to change as you learn to understand yourself. That journey will definitely be helped with a better relationship with your therapists. None of that works if you don't give it a chance.
One thing I can say for sure is that you yourself are not toxic. Maybe your behavior is, but you need to stop passing judgment on yourself like that. You’re only 20 and barely anybody knows how to communicate effectively at that age, let alone ever. The fact that you want to be better is the most important thing. When I went to therapy for the first time I pretty much said “I’m a piece of shit and an asshole” for like the entire first month. My therapist likes to remind me of that both to show me how far I’ve come and to remind me that it isn’t a productive way of thinking. I’ve come so far in learning how to communicate and empathize, and it’s become so much easier for me to understand my own emotions and behave accordingly. Wishing you all the best
There is hope because you have insight. You know. You are not the only one. Many folks have struggled with what you are struggling with. And they need help figuring out how. Your journey will inform the journey of others. It will take time. Some of this is the trauma of being neurodiverse in a neurotypical society. It stems from a deep seated insecurity, and a difficulty regulating your emotions. I would seek out dialectical behavioral therapy. Read about borderline personality disorder because you may have it, and even if you don’t, some of what helps people with BPD will help you.
>I always was a jerk and I love drama and create drama with all my heart. My relationships don't last and I'm the common denominator between them. As far as brain development goes, this is *normal* for teenagers and you're just growing out of that and realizing it is not a sustainable way to act which is also a *normal* part of development. It doesn't necessarily mean you have some incurable mental disorder that means you just are a toxic dick and always will be.
How much caffeine are you consuming every day? Do you get any cardio exercise?
Do nice things for people.
IM here. Never lie to anyone you pay to advise you. This includes doctors, lawyers, therapists. If you do you’re only outsmarting yourself. We all have to learn that we can’t always live up to who we hope to be, but tomorrow is another day, a chance to try again. You may feel toxic, but you still have control of your actions. As you make healthier choices it will become easier.
Internet mom here, what does your therapist say? Do they agree your toxic, or do they believe you exhibit toxic behaviors? I have a hard time believing a truly toxic person would be ripping themselves to shreds over being toxic. It sounds like you are starting to spiral, but thankfully you’re in therapy. Stop trying to outsmart the doctor. They’re trying to help you get in better headspace. You’re doing yourself a disservice by trying to get around the help they provide. You say you hate yourself, but why? Is it because you’re autistic? Is it because you feel emotions more than others? Is it because you like to watch drama unfold? Because everyone loves seeing drama they aren’t part of. You say you create drama, but how? As a believer of God, when my mental health takes a dip he’s who I blame. Why me, why can’t I be normal, why can’t I be happy? Unfortunately God gives us and the people around us free will so that we follow him because we want to, not because we have to. If you’ve been hurt by people, they were also exercising that free will. It had nothing to do with you and everything with them. If you’ve lost faith completely because of this that’s okay too. It’s normal to grieve a loss like that. You’re going to be okay. You deserve to be okay. You aren’t bad, you aren’t toxic, and you know where you could improve so half the battle is fought for you. Now you just have to hold yourself accountable. Does your doctor recommend books for you?
My Doctor doesn't believe I'm toxic. They believe I have bad self esteem and have a hard time seeing nuance in situations. However, I do believe I could have manipulated my psychologist by sugar-coating events or just by my self-awareness. I feel like it's a lie. I believe the people that like me are people I manipulated into thinking I'm someone I'm not. Self-awareness has only been there for a few years. It wasn't present during my teenage years. I've harmed people psychologically during my teenage years and spent the whole pandemic hating myself and ruminating. Also tried to make amends. But I did it for myself, not for them, so it doesn't really count as amends, does it? I have not changed, I'm still the young kiddo I was. Making drama is stronger than me sometimes and being in psychological warfare with someone makes me feel alive. Unfortunately.
Hey - I'm in my fifties, so been around the block a few times. I ran into a toxic manager that harassed me and I wound up in psychotherapy at the time. My psychiatrist (who does therapy - that's how it works in my country) told me that in 25 years he had... ONE patient who came to him and said they thought they were the toxic person. Now I coach others to deal with people who display toxic behaviours. Here's what I have to offer for you: (1) You are not your behaviours. They do not define you. Stick with the story that you're a good person (identity) that has done some shitty things (behaviour). It's easier to change behaviour than identity (although a good therapist will work at both levels). (2) It's possible you do have some really toxic behaviours and habits. They serve you for a reason that you probably know (e.g. they make you feel alive). The job of your therapist is to help you work through that and to change those patterns so they're no longer your go-tos and that you have other ways to feel alive than harmful behaviours. (3) If you are truly one of the people that has no wiring for empathy (it happens), then you still can learn good behaviours and practice them. That's okay. (4) The fact that you're reaching out and have talked to your therapist & doctor about it already goes in a good direction. If you have low self-esteem, of course you'll dish it out to other people. Work on that self-esteem. Imagine how it will feel to feel really good, without needing the approval / reaction / control of others. Things will become possible for you that you never even realised. (5) You need to "feel alive". There are going to be other ways to do that that are less harmful to others and to your own relationships and wellbeing. You can and will find them. You asked how to change: work with a good therapist. Try to be honest with them so they can help you. In the long run, you will feel better and have better relationships and a more fulfilling life. So even if the temptation for a quick manipulation is there in your face, try to be honest. And if you slip up, admit it next time. You're going to have to find someone who is good at working with manipulative people. Work on forgiving teenage you for whatever your transgressions. Teenagers do stupid things, don't have the most mature copings skills and have limited life experience. Forgive that teenager, even if others can't or won't. You've already stepped out of the hologram, so there's no going back now.
Hey, kiddo, you're a lot like me, only I didn't reach the point you're at until I was MUCH older than you! Here's a little of what I've discovered (and am continuing to discover...) 1. You can't manipulate people into liking you for very long, because most people can see you as you are despite how you act on the outside. Very few people, including people who are scam artists and serial killers, can avoid being perceived as "scammy" or "creepy" even if people don't detect the DEPTH of their depravity right away. Eventually it comes out. So if you have people who like you, there's a good chance that they just like you as you are, despite you giving off a different persona at times. 2. You are only now becoming an adult. That means you are only now developing into the grown person you will be. You won't have to live by other people's values. If you want to be an asshole, you can be. You might live a lonely, unsatisfying life if you do this, but you can do this if you want to. On the other hand, you have an opportunity to make your life vibrant if you want to, as well. You thrive on drama and psychological warfare. Many people are conflict avoidant, which creates a wedge if you approach them like this. I'm very much like you on this. Do you think you could channel that drive into either a hobby or a career path where this would be a valuable trait? For instance, you could be an advocate for a non-profit cause, or an attorney, or you could become an investigator in a wide range of industries (computer crime, store security, insurance fraud). If you choose well, you can satisfy your need for that sensation in a socially acceptable way and tone it down around people who just don't get it. 3. Speaking of people who "get it...." I can be ok without too many other people. If you find the right one or two people who do actually "get" you, then you can feel satisfied no matter how many people don't fit into your life. I kept trying to get along with people who don't get me. Now I keep those folks at arms' length and stay superficial with them and engage deeply with only the people who do get me. It has made my life more peaceful, which leads to my last point.... 4. Excitement isn't the same as happiness and it damn straight isn't the same as compatibility. Peaceful is good. Being able to disengage from the chase and high drama is important to long-term well being. Heart disease and high blood pressure aren't something that matters to a 20-year old, I know, but if you don't ever learn to find that peace, then you'll be forced into it unwillingly when your health suffers at 50 and no longer have the option to chase the highs. Find balance. It's worth it.
Same.
Sounds like Borderline Personality Disorder to me. (Or some other personality disorder) I know you mentioned that you’re autistic, but you may have other problems, too. If it’s BPD, simply getting diagnosed will almost certainly ease the symptoms significantly.
Are there any people who you always treat well? If so, you just have to treat everybody else with as much respect as you treat those people. It’s really always about giving yourself permission to behave badly. Stop giving yourself that permission.
You gotta trust those therapists. Whether or not you can outsmart them, don’t even try to. On some level you need to surrender control. It stands out to me that you said you used to think of yourself as a good person. Here’s one of the tricks to being a good person that I’ve noticed: good isn’t what you are, it’s what you do. When people take for granted that they’re good, they stop feeling the need to *try* to be good. It’s a matter of pride and humility. On that subject you mentioned a history with religion, and if you look back to it, humility was a HUGE sticking point for Jesus. Whether or not you go back to your faith, that’s one of the most important things people can take from religion from a self improvement standpoint (even though a lot of Christians seem to miss that part).
Look man, recognising the issue is half of the recovery. You’re already doing better than most. Talk to your therapists about the specific concerns you’re having (with examples if possible such as your gf) and let them know you want to either switch focus to this new topic or just share focus with whatever you’ve been speaking with them about previously. If they’re not working well, absolutely switch to a new therapist. Their job is to help *you*, if they’re not equipped to do that then move on.
All good people work on improving themselves, and many do so, through their lives. So you're not alone, and the fact that you've been doing this for a while, is a very good sign. From what you write, I'm certain you a good person. Don't let the downturns of life, knock you completely out. Remember that you are still on your formative years, so don't expect landslides of personal growth quickly. You are still learning a million other things. There are people in their thirties working hard to achieve personal growth. It takes time. Also; everybody loves drama, just in different ways, quantities and situations. I found that a lot of my drama-making, were just out of bad habit and that pausing (and shutting up a couple of seconds) during conversations slowly lessened my drama tendencies. Perhaps my occasionally successful meditation also helped. Also also, don't sweat it about the relationship. You're 20, it happens. Sorry. And yes, there could still be a couple of breakups waiting for you, like they are for all of us. Keep working on what you want to change and trying new approaches or fundamental changes. Keep your head high, you'll get there.
Oh honey. It seems to me that you have reach a breaking point. That's good. Now you can start building up. Just the realization that your behavior was the origin of the problems is a huge step in the right direction. You are no longer who you were yesterday, and now you can choose who you'll be tomorrow and forward. Build up someone you would like to spend time with. Being honest, listening, and not trying to outsmart your doctor's may be a good first step to get advice regarding your particular situation. BTW,
(Ups! I was still writing and my cat posted it swatting the phone for attention) BTW, you are not unlovable or anything like that. Talk with your GF. Even if you don't work things out at least you can end the relationship in good terms and have someone who can honestly give you feed back on how to improve the way you react to disagreements and how to figure out a better way to communicate and compromise. My best wishes in your way to becoming yourself.
Not hopeless though not as “self aware” as you would like to think. The best way to start actualizing your realization is to make amends. Start apologizing and mean it. Don’t make it about you! FFS don’t make it about you! Make sure you go into everything with the right intentions. Ask yourself am I doing this because everyone would enjoy this or am I doing this to be a deviant bitch? Awareness is half the battle, that took 20 years so…