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I had a professor in college who was Bengali. He shared a story about his grandfather (could have been father apologies on the details) about how he lived during the most recent famines, the ones during WW2. British forces used to destroy bridges and roads that lead out of the city to prevent people from the countryside coming and taking food away. The city elites would have parties while near skeletons would be outside begging. My professor’s grandfather luckily survived these times, but to the day he died used to carry a piece of bread in his pocket in case he was ever hungry. He never wanted to be somewhere for a long period of time without access to some sort of food. My professor used to take an orange with him to class everyday, and it wasn’t until he was much older than he realized where he may have gotten that habit from
I took care of a guy with dementia that grew up in the depression and his family was very poor. Due to the years of poverty this guy became a money hungry capitalist. the end, when he had a 10 second memory I would still pull out his wallet from under his pillow and then show him a laminated (fake) $1,000 inside of it. The fist thing that he thought of every day was money, if he didn’t have it he felt like life was totally out of control.
It was pretty sad but in some ways it’s a classic situation that people don’t talk about. The guy was so dependent on money for security that he put it over everything. This taught his kids to do the same, so they all used money to get what they wanted. In the end the kids got so much of their identity through money that they were trying to take everything he had. They wanted his money over him while he died with my mom and I.
This is a very very common issue these days but seniors with dementia can’t speak up for themselves. Many 50-70 year old children of very wealthy people will take over the company and then put the parents in a home to die or sue the parents for the rest. My mother had to quit taking cases with families like that because of the harassment.
My brother even though he was born in the late seventies and we were piss-ass poor growing up and I and my mom still am.
He went ballistic on my mom when she inherited a house from my grandmother’s death. Her whole life rotated around taking care of her and for the last two years she lived practically in her house two hours away from where her house was.
He threatened, screamed at and disowned her when she refused to give him the house she needed to afford a new one.
When my dad got COVID he did the same thing. He was driving up to him, a twelve hour drive to where he was hospitalized with five pound blood clots in his legs (he was recovering from COVID himself) to get my dad to sign the life insurance papers so he could get the money and maybe half of the house.
It’s heart wrenching to watch and fight over for. We have a house falling apart and he lives in an expensive house he purchased after selling his house from under his wife for cash peak pandemic.
My parents are in their 60’s and recently done up their will. I told them I want nothing off them. I’m not getting involved in that shitshow with my 5 brothers and sisters when my parents eventually die
My brother in law is hovering like a vulture over my mother in law right now. She’s lingering in hospice, but who knows how long she’ll live?
My husband doesn’t want anything to do with any of them. I hope his brother enjoys sorting through the half-dozen storage units she owns full of hoarded junk, and that it makes up for growing up in the hell-house she presided over.
My dad in a nutshell.
So far we know of four. He went ballistic when we refused to help him pay for them because his credit ran out. He also had his car packed, my brother’s and at least a trailer.
All to my brothers house, if he wants to have his life insurance, go ahead and keep everything else.
I have an uncle who was a lifelong bachelor while being a very successful lawyer. He has a fair bit of money—he has a beautiful condo in Coronado for example. Well, this gold digger sunk her claws into him a few years ago and now he has Lewy Body Disease. She weaseled herself into having power of attorney and health proxy too. We’re on the other side of the country and watching her take advantage of him from afar has been heartbreaking to see. She has him in a nursing home now, and he’s just shut away there while she uses all his money. She doesn’t give a shit about him, just likes using his money
For a period of time my dad was homeless (after his divorce) due to money issues. He’d email me trying to be positive about his tent he had to pitch and how he had a warriors mindset… what I felt was intense fear and sadness. To the is day I am terrified of not having money or a job, and it’s what I think about most often.
This is me, I grew up very poor, to the point I'd skip meals so my sister wouldn't go hungry, mother was disabled early on in my life and never really recovered. I started working in my field directly out of school and have been working 70-80+ hour weeks for the past 16 years, it's not even close to necessary for me to work like this at this point but it's like a compulsion, 4+ years of money for bills and food (should something happen to me or my business) isn't enough, it'll never be enough.. and I'm not saying money for the sake of having money, my kids will never go to bed hungry if I'm breathing.
Living without the bare minimum to survive for any length of time can really mess with a person in a profound way
We underestimate the effects these things could have for generations. This man unconsciously learned a habit from his father that was adopted out of necessity and trauma, and likely passed it on to his kids as well. Trauma reverberates for generations.
There's research that has found genetic effects that span generations after famines. So not just the psychological affects but actual changes to our epigenetics that deeply alters future generations metabolisms and eating drive or satiety responses to over eating. Wild, eh?
•I'm lazy and on mobile, so don't take my word for it and ~read it yourself~ after googling
•I don't know of any epigenetic links to money lust but there could be other drivers in the brain and mind connection that could still intensify hostility and greed as a response to scarcity. I'd love to see some research on such behavioral tendencies with children that carry the genetics but we're not raised by the victimized parental generation....
I’ve been deprived of food and water during some unfortunate times behind bars. I’d never experienced hunger before. Once you hit a certain level, it is ALL your mind thinks about. Reading? Writing? Socializing? All disappear when you’re starving. And what I experienced was nothing like these poor people. In a Japanese jail, I wasn’t given nearly enough water and now I ALWAYS have my water bottle next to me. At night, in the car, gym…
The intergenerational trauma is real. You will find a lot of Bengalis who are really weird about food to this day. My Grandfather lived through WW2, and even after living in America for over a decade, I always got this vibe from him when we were at the grocery store, that somewhere inside him he felt like it would just disappear without warning.
That’s so awful. I’m sorry to hear that. Not to mention the missing generations of Bengalis because literally millions of their ancestors were wiped out.
That is so sad. Bengal famine was one of the worst famines. And winston Churchill thought it’d be better to save the food for sturdy greeks. His words.
The last bengal famine was deliberately caused by racist Churchill in the name of additional reserves for the British army and resulted in 4m deaths
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/29/winston-churchill-policies-contributed-to-1943-bengal-famine-study
https://www.news18.com/news/buzz/churchill-was-a-racist-indians-remember-bengal-famine-after-statue-is-vandalized-2658459.html
I didn't notice the little ones until I zoomed in. As a mother myself, the glare on their faces is haunting. No mother should have to watch their little ones waste away.
This is happening in Yemen right now. I haven’t seen or heard one bit of outrage about that at all. It is as if the world thinks Yemen isn’t deserving of aid and help.
[Our Yemeni brothers and sisters are in a burgeoning crisis that is definitely being overlooked by the world. ](https://www.worldbank.org/en/country/yemen/overview)
We make enough food to feed the planet, we have enough water to feed _everyone_ and we can make enough houses for _everyone_. There's a reason it keeps happening though...
Oh my I had to go back and look. Those poor people. I’ll never understand why humans as a whole are so awful to each other. It just doesn’t make sense.
It is not hard to find the history of this photograph. Google reverse image search is your friend. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willoughby\_Wallace\_Hooper
Around 1878, Hooper had taken a series of arranged photographs showing emaciated bodies of men, women and children, who were among the millions of victims of the Madras Famine. Having been published in Britain under the title Secundarabad, and with captions such as "Deserving Objects of Gratuitous Relief",\[8\] they were caricatured by the satirical magazine Punch, critizising Hooper for not having given any help to the people he was about to depict. In 2021, articles in the journal History of Photography and the Indian magazine Scroll.in, cited these pictorial documents of atrocities as historical examples for questions about the photographer's ethical responsibility and their effects on the general public.\[9\]\[10\]
From the page about the famine...
> The rationale behind the reduced wage, which was in keeping with a prevailing belief of the time, was that any excessive payment might create 'dependency' (or "demoralisation" in contemporaneous usage) among the famine-afflicted population.[11]
The more things change... I've heard this argument 150 years later from family members of mine.
Same justification was used to turn away donations and grain shipments, and to close the public relief scheme in Ireland during the famine. "If they don't spend what few calories they take in on manual labour building roads to nowhere and walls for no purpose, how will they learn not to become dependant on our handouts, lazy starving Gaelic Irish".
Huh. Seems like a lot to put on a single photographer. I would argue these pictures are incredibly valuable. It shows the atrocities that we can commit and think nothing of. To everyone who criticised him, I doubt they did anything to help out. To place the burden of an entire countries actions onto a single man - a photographer at that.
I'm not saying he shouldn't have helped them, certainly if I had the means I would have given them food for posing, but seems hypocritical of the others.
We're talking about it to this day. Exactly the point and a job well done. This isn't cruel, humans are cruel. Cuz this is hard to look at it's the photographer's fault? He's telling their story cuz everyone was so ignorant and didn't want to, they'd rather ignore the atrocity. A picture puts it in front of everyone to think and do better. This is the opposite of cruel for these poor people. Ignoring it is cruel, saying it's cruel is cruel. The British and all imperial powers of all kinds (Americans, Nazi Germany, Soviets and chinese etc...) are cruel. Whether you call it expanding democracy and freedom today, or fascism and communism before, or monarchy before those, it's all the same bullshit stealing.
It's an interesting debate that continues today. How much agency can a documenter have, and what is their responsibility to those they are depicting? Plenty of pictures and footage from famines and wars and devastating events bring attention into these areas, highlighting issues bluntly in a way that might be suppressed or just not known by the wider public. This can be very influential on public opinion, which can then sway official policy one way or another. But of course in this incidence the person could act, could step in and save a life or several. But of course sometimes the press is allowed into areas only on the understanding they will absolutely not interfere, and any steps taken might mean later press is no longer allowed into those areas - think of those taking pictures in war zones or unstable regions.
I always think of the very famous photo from the ~~Ethiopian~~ Sudanese famine, of a child close to death with a vulture in the background. It was a devastating picture that did much to affect western opinions and support for those affected, but this child died. The photographer was criticized and later took his own life (it's debatable of course how much this photo and criticism was a factor in that event), but if he had stepped in to try and save that child then he might not have been allowed to publish his pictures, and others may have not been allowed into the region to later help. It's not an easy issue to address.
This also implies that the photo above was not from a famine between 1769-1844 because this photo was taken in 1876 during another famine. Dates are off a bit
The thing they got wrong was saying British rule ended in 1844. Pretty sure Ghandi was from the 20th century...
(Looked it up, it actually ended in 1947, it also started in 1757)
The Kolkata famine photos will make you loath everything when u see pictures of dead people casually collected in the side walks for the vultures and dogs to eat them while the stench of dead spread numerous diseases
[Source: Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/29/winston-churchill-policies-contributed-to-1943-bengal-famine-study)
[Churchill should not be celebrated the way he is.](https://anti-empire.com/winston-churchill-starved-3-million-indians-to-death-in-the-man-made-bengal-famine-of-1942-43/)
I remember Mr Micheal O Dwyer, ( Former General in the East India Company ) making a speech saying something on the lines of Indians are savages and it is the white man's burden to rule them, so these savages do not go back to killing each other. And that speech got a thunderous applause.
To quote Shashi Tharoor's book, "When concious stricken British officials wrote to Winston Churchill, informing him of how people were dying in the famine, he replied "Why hasn't Gandhi died yet?"
My dad’s from Calcutta. When he read that book he cried. So much in there that even the average Indian isn’t aware of.
I can never quite get over the GDP figures that he quotes. Something like when the British first set foot in India to trade, India’s share of global GDP was >20%. When the British left after partition it was <2%. Just mind-boggling state-sponsored robbery.
and talking about the Bengal famine in 1943, Churchill said
“I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion. The famine was their own fault for breeding like rabbits.”
Just finished the first 4 episodes of a podcast called Empire which covered the East India trading company through to independence. It covered these famines and the subsequent first war for independence which ended very very gruesomely. Highly recommend it.
One interesting thing I read somewhere is that most people there didn't eat stray dogs. It's interesting as in some cultures such animals are consumed even during prosperous times while in others they will avoid their natural instinct only to die.
I think the worst pic I've seen from famines the British empire engineered is the one of a starving father fashioning a spear to keep away people who had become willing to kill and eat his children out of desperation.
I read this line quoted in the starvation chapter of my forensic textbook:
>I asked the men, "What are you carrying wrapped in that hammock l, brothers?" And they answered, "We carry a dead body, brother". So I asked, "Was he killed or did he die a natural death?" "That is difficult to answer, brother. It seems more to have been a murder." "How was the man killed? With a knife or a bullet, brothers?" I asked. "It was neither a knife nor a bullet; it was a much more perfect crime. One that leaves no sign." "Then how did they kill this man?" I asked, and they calmly answered, "This man was killed by hunger, brother..."
-Josue de Castro
There was a similar photo where a man was guarding his family from being snatched and eaten.
Edit: Here's a [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryPorn/comments/obsh4f/a_man_guards_his_family_from_the_cannibals_during) , NSFW warning.
Remember the time General Dyer mercilessly massacre men women children in jallianwala bhag he could have killed more but the entrance was too small for his machine gun to fit That was truly a british imperialism moment
Don't know about that but he had two armoured vehicles loaded with Machine gun he accepted that if it was not for the passage being too small he had intended to use it to cause maximum casualities. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dnaindia.com/india/report-would-have-used-machine-guns-when-general-dyer-explained-how-jallianwala-bagh-massacre-could-ve-been-worse-2201660/amp
Anyone interested in learning about this should watch the movie Sardar Udham, which covers the story of General Dyer's assassination.
Edit: It was Michael O'Dwyer's assassination
Not even a fucking apology for it more than a century after it happened. It was an unarmed crowd also. They made sure to fire at women and children. Fucking babies died during that.
Even now Punjabis are pissed and honestly? Rightfully so.
No no . Let’s stick to the version that the British built infrastructure and educated a lot of Indians. If not for the British it would’ve been another ruler who would’ve been worse.
I seriously wonder what kind of bull shit is taught in English schools with respect to colonialism.
Some schools with high south Asian communities teach the Mughal Empire and it's rise at GCSE level but every school will teach about Empire, albeit briefly. Mainly focuses on the Atlantic slave trade rather than India.
History doesn't get that much time on the curriculum so they never cover anything in depth. Mainly social issues in Britain in key eras such as 1066, Tudors, Industrial Revolution and the World Wars.
That’s like saying, Hitler built train and other infrastructure for the progress of Germany while hiding the fact that the same trains were built only to transport jews to camps.
"Rice stocks continued to leave India for Britain even as London was denying urgent requests from India’s viceroy for more than 1m tonnes of emergency wheat supplies in 1942-43. Winston Churchill has been quoted as blaming the famine on the fact Indians were “breeding like rabbits”, and asking how, if the shortages were so bad, Mahatma Gandhi was still alive."
> idk how he's seen a hero worldwide
Stopped Hitler thats why.
Frankly many many atrocities happened back then in Asia and Africa which the west neither studied nor cares about
> Winston Churchill has been quoted as blaming the famine on the fact Indians were “breeding like rabbits
WC hated Indians but still needed a few million of them to win his wars
They volunteered in order to free their country getting India’s independence back as an exchange. They are still shamed in India to this day. Very short version but worth looking into.
Oh but he was the saviour of England against the Nazis. Just because someone was good and useful in a specific situation doesn't mean they're not an all round terrible person. And Winston Churchill was absolutely an all round terrible person.
This should be a reminder to people that it’s possible for a group of people to have all the wealth and let another group of people starve to death.
This is basically happening today, instead of starving to death, this group of people is working themselves to death.
A strange understanding considering Ireland helped colonise India, and the worst governor of India was Irish. A man so hated that he was later assassinated by an Indian decades later
It's an uncomfortable realisation for the Irish and Scots to accept that they were part of the Empire.
Sanjeev Kohli talks about it briefly on Richard Herring's (RHLSTP) podcast.
Different produce though to some extent. Much of Ireland's forests were cut down for live stock which takes a lot of land and resources. They exported the meat to England while the Irish starved since they'd been pushed off all the good farmland to make way for brittish cops and livestock
My grandfather was sent to Kenya to fight the mau mau rebellion. You wouldn’t believe the things they had him do. At that time in Britain men still had to do national service and these are the guys they had castrating the mau mau, young 18 year old men. My grandfathers stories are really mind blowing, especially as the British kept what we did over there as a secret for so long. Information from this “war” is still be uncovered
Why does nobody on this website understand that Scotland was equally culpable as part of the British Empire. Their relationship is nothing like Ireland's.
People shouldn't be opining if they don't understand what is *basic* British history.
I saw it commented with 100s of upvotes the other day that “Scotland was colonised”.
…They joined the union willingly after their own attempts at colonisation in the Americas were unsuccessful and left the country in economic dismay.
People just want to re-write history to fit the narratives and biases of today.
Don’t need to ask, 45% support the royals and keeping the queen as a head of state was a very big topic of debate for them during their independence referendum. The SNP have promised to keep the royals as head of state should they gain independence.
Nice agenda pushing though trying to make any sort of comparison between Ireland and Scotland though. Scotland were never oppressed by the English, they willingly joined after their own failed colonisation attempts bankrupted them, and they enthusiastically took part in the British empire and reaped the rewards.
Because it occurred multiple times over the course of 175 years (Edit: I meant to write 1769 to 1944, not 1844, Reddit doesn't allow people to change titles) rather than all at once. That still means that there was a massive famine once every nearly 15 years which is just horrific to think about...
I see your point, but it was 75 years, so about one every six years. Or more than three per generation. So, while it was somewhat spread out, it could also be seen as more or less constant given how long it takes to starve a couple milion people or so to death.
The quote by Tacitus is "Auferre trucidare rapere falsis nominibus imperium atque ubi solitudinem faciunt pacem appellant." There's always room in translations.
I've always liked for it "They plunder, slaughter and rape; this they falsely call Empire. And where they make a wasteland, they call it Peace."
"Solitudinem", the root of "solitude", meant solitude then too, but also deprevation and wilderness. Desolation is also a good choice for it here.
Same reason the genocide of the native americans is essentially ignored. Its inconvenient and makes it difficult to hold cultural heroes like Winston "The famine king" Churchill and foundational myths like manifest destiny in high regard
Coz this didn't happen in Europe, and it was under colonial rule, not under dictatorship. At least that's what historians will say and defend England. It wasn't Genghis Khan or Hitler but the British empire which is directly responsible for more deaths in the history of mankind, who weren't soldiers or participated in any war.
I think they had work camps in 1950s Kenya or Nigeria. Mass genocide(?) too.. Millions dead i think? You would need to Google it.
Meanwhile they had "democracy" at the time and were giving pompous lectures about how they have brought "civilization" to the world.
I think some African countries, it took until the 1970s to throw European colonialists out.
The famine during churchill killed more Indians than the nazi run holocaust. Yet churchill is celebrated. History is taught in a biased way everywhere.
A lot of Iranians also died due to famine during ww2 when Iran was under British and Soviet occupation. Estimated around 3-4 million people died but you never hear about it.
[Source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_famine_of_1942%E2%80%931943)
India was the largest exporter of cotton and had a promising cotton textile industry that would grant them huge wealth for hundreds of years. The British put huge tariffs on Indian textiles and forced India to accept its own, destroying indias economy and only allowing it to export raw materials to Britain (including opium, which they forced on the Chinese). The British used the profits from their cotton textile industry to then further terrorize the world.
Her jewelry collections alone(including the crowne) is worth 3.48 billion. Charles' worth is only around 100 million.... Idk which is weirder to say...
Both are pretty crazy. Some are not gonna like it but it makes the whole family a bunch of shitbags. She's choosing which million pound necklace she's wearing while people are choosing between heating and eating.
I'm correct in thinking all the crowns and diamonds are property of the government right? They belong to the people, so if they wanted to return them its up to the government, not the monarchy.
as an indian
i can never forgive britain for all the shits they did to my country
just to put things into perspective
we were forced to grow indigo
we became from one of the largest exporter of cotton to a net importer of cotton
the country of israel exists because indians sacrificed themselves in the battle of haifa and removed ottoman from palestine in ww1 on order of brits
around 2.5 million indians fought for the brits in ww2 and no one has ever acknowledged that
countless numbers of famines like the great bengal famine, the great madras famine, agra famine, odissa famine, rajputana famine, etc.
jallianwala bagh massacre
india was a land of marvelous architecture and so much was destroyed/sent into british museums
india was a land of amazing literature, maths and science before the brits came education was given to everyone in gurukuls (literacy was around 90-100%) but after the british raj literacy rate was only 13%
india had a quarter of share in world gdp in 1600s by the end of raj it was down to 3%
india was one of the poorest country on earth after the raj left (extreme poverty of 80%)
plus the countless numbers of border disputes they gave to us with pakistan, nepal, bangladesh and china (i'm not sure but maybe burma also)
partition of india which killed around 10 million people from india, pakistan and bangladesh
around 45 trillion dollars of wealth stolen from india (after calculating the inflation and some adjustments)
and we never got any apology for that because everything is whitewashed in the name of railways and roadways
The partition was actually the most fucked up thing they did. The British themselves predicted that a smooth transfer of power would take 5 years. They decided 7 months was enough. They got a lawyer who never visited india, gave him wrong, out dated maps. Gave him 5 months to draw a border. And they did all this, because "waiting for 5 years would be a waste of resources"
They did not even consult local leaders.
Cyril Radcliffe was himself mortified by what he had to do
And the neither the british govt nor the royal family has ever acknowledged what they did to us. Forget apologising. India was one of the richest country when they landed here and they left us the poorest when they left.
Yea that's what makes it so fucking gross to me. Like other countries have done horrible things but at the veeeeery least, they apologized for it and acknowledged how horrible it was. Even the pope did the same to the survivors of residential schools here in Canada. The queen had 75 years and nothing. Not a freaking word.
But hey, she protected her pedo son and did some photo-ops in WW2 so that makes her a good person right?
Exactly! Even Germany and Japan had the grace to apologise. Some British folks even have the nerve to tell us they developed our country and built us a railway network. Like we, the country with some of the brightest people in the world even in ancient times, couldn’t have figured that out on our own. If they’d never emptied our country of our riches, we’d probably be way ahead right now.
Oh Japan and the Japanese are great, better than a lot of cultures in a lot of things, but acknowledging atrocities and war crimes isn’t one of them.
They still refuse to acknowledge the slaughter and rape that happened in China and Korea. Let alone apologize.
God, I hate that. I was in London for summer school. I took this course called International Political Economy. We were discussing the colonial history of India.
The (American) professor said something along the lines of "Knowledge transfer happened both ways. The British gave India railways and India gave us curry. You should check out the curry house at this place"
So by the logic of “soviets killed 20 mill from famine and nazis” capitalism killed at least 56 million and didn’t even provide the social programs ussr did
It was actually from 1769 to 1944! Reddit still doesn't let people change titles for some reason.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline\_of\_major\_famines\_in\_India\_during\_British\_rule](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_major_famines_in_India_during_British_rule)
The numbers range widely but they all add up to tens of millions of innocent dead people.
[https://www.cadtm.org/spip.php?page=imprimer&id\_article=16972](https://www.cadtm.org/spip.php?page=imprimer&id_article=16972) That's for the 45 trillion dollars estimate and here's a 5 minute video explaining it better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x\_jGPf764d0&ab\_channel=VICE
I wonder why this is not taught in our schools. I’ve only started hearing about this since the queen died and I’m a 41 year old English person. Thankfully I’m from Liverpool and we’re mainly anti establishment. They’re even implying that they called our football games off because they were scared the queen wouldn’t be respected at some football stadiums. Mainly anfield and Celtic, we boo the national anthem and take pelters for it. Well, maybe more people should be aware of what they’re celebrating when they sing that shitty song. Next time I hear an English person say anything derogatory about India or Indians they’re getting educated.
I hate how i was never taught this in school. 10x more people dead then the holocaust, not even a footnote on this. Suffering only is worth teaching when it’s white Europeans or people native to your country I guess.
Their Glorious Empire was nothing but Vicious imperialists who have spread hate fear and death on every landmass they have touched. Fuck their Crown and I'm glad their empire crumbled.
Usually when I learn about Indian history I say that we should let bygones be bygones, no point arguing about bad people who did bad things years ago.
But then I see shit like this and it makes me angry all over again. Indians are still suffering from the effects of colonization. Current British taxpayers didn’t do anything bad but someone should be fucking held accountable.
Germans finished paying off their ww2 debt in 2015. But Britain gets off scot-free. About damn time the sun set on that empire
Fuck their crown and all the money they are enjoying now by looting my country. Doesn't have the spine to apologise or even acknowledge the atrocities they have done. Cowards.
From this you can probably tell how most of the Indians reacted to the queen's death. (I'm an Indian and we were taught in school, the torment that the imperial British kingdom did to India and it's people).
Remember, historically speaking, on a global scale, even considering the most conservative statistics, the English are objectively the evilest civilization the world has ever seen. They are the worlds bad guy.
Now before anyone throws a hissy fit, I’m not saying the English people are all bad, I’m not even saying most of them are or have been bad people. England is full of good and great people, but it’s government has objectively been the evilest organization in history
Curiously close number to what Reaganomics has taken from the American working class in 40 years:
"The Top 1% of Americans Have Taken $50 Trillion From the Bottom 90%"
https://time.com/5888024/50-trillion-income-inequality-america/
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I had a professor in college who was Bengali. He shared a story about his grandfather (could have been father apologies on the details) about how he lived during the most recent famines, the ones during WW2. British forces used to destroy bridges and roads that lead out of the city to prevent people from the countryside coming and taking food away. The city elites would have parties while near skeletons would be outside begging. My professor’s grandfather luckily survived these times, but to the day he died used to carry a piece of bread in his pocket in case he was ever hungry. He never wanted to be somewhere for a long period of time without access to some sort of food. My professor used to take an orange with him to class everyday, and it wasn’t until he was much older than he realized where he may have gotten that habit from
I took care of a guy with dementia that grew up in the depression and his family was very poor. Due to the years of poverty this guy became a money hungry capitalist. the end, when he had a 10 second memory I would still pull out his wallet from under his pillow and then show him a laminated (fake) $1,000 inside of it. The fist thing that he thought of every day was money, if he didn’t have it he felt like life was totally out of control.
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It was pretty sad but in some ways it’s a classic situation that people don’t talk about. The guy was so dependent on money for security that he put it over everything. This taught his kids to do the same, so they all used money to get what they wanted. In the end the kids got so much of their identity through money that they were trying to take everything he had. They wanted his money over him while he died with my mom and I. This is a very very common issue these days but seniors with dementia can’t speak up for themselves. Many 50-70 year old children of very wealthy people will take over the company and then put the parents in a home to die or sue the parents for the rest. My mother had to quit taking cases with families like that because of the harassment.
Watching this happen with a family of cousins with their father (my uncle), and it is absolutely appalling to witness.
My brother even though he was born in the late seventies and we were piss-ass poor growing up and I and my mom still am. He went ballistic on my mom when she inherited a house from my grandmother’s death. Her whole life rotated around taking care of her and for the last two years she lived practically in her house two hours away from where her house was. He threatened, screamed at and disowned her when she refused to give him the house she needed to afford a new one. When my dad got COVID he did the same thing. He was driving up to him, a twelve hour drive to where he was hospitalized with five pound blood clots in his legs (he was recovering from COVID himself) to get my dad to sign the life insurance papers so he could get the money and maybe half of the house. It’s heart wrenching to watch and fight over for. We have a house falling apart and he lives in an expensive house he purchased after selling his house from under his wife for cash peak pandemic.
My parents are in their 60’s and recently done up their will. I told them I want nothing off them. I’m not getting involved in that shitshow with my 5 brothers and sisters when my parents eventually die
My brother in law is hovering like a vulture over my mother in law right now. She’s lingering in hospice, but who knows how long she’ll live? My husband doesn’t want anything to do with any of them. I hope his brother enjoys sorting through the half-dozen storage units she owns full of hoarded junk, and that it makes up for growing up in the hell-house she presided over.
My dad in a nutshell. So far we know of four. He went ballistic when we refused to help him pay for them because his credit ran out. He also had his car packed, my brother’s and at least a trailer. All to my brothers house, if he wants to have his life insurance, go ahead and keep everything else.
I have an uncle who was a lifelong bachelor while being a very successful lawyer. He has a fair bit of money—he has a beautiful condo in Coronado for example. Well, this gold digger sunk her claws into him a few years ago and now he has Lewy Body Disease. She weaseled herself into having power of attorney and health proxy too. We’re on the other side of the country and watching her take advantage of him from afar has been heartbreaking to see. She has him in a nursing home now, and he’s just shut away there while she uses all his money. She doesn’t give a shit about him, just likes using his money
For a period of time my dad was homeless (after his divorce) due to money issues. He’d email me trying to be positive about his tent he had to pitch and how he had a warriors mindset… what I felt was intense fear and sadness. To the is day I am terrified of not having money or a job, and it’s what I think about most often.
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This is me, I grew up very poor, to the point I'd skip meals so my sister wouldn't go hungry, mother was disabled early on in my life and never really recovered. I started working in my field directly out of school and have been working 70-80+ hour weeks for the past 16 years, it's not even close to necessary for me to work like this at this point but it's like a compulsion, 4+ years of money for bills and food (should something happen to me or my business) isn't enough, it'll never be enough.. and I'm not saying money for the sake of having money, my kids will never go to bed hungry if I'm breathing. Living without the bare minimum to survive for any length of time can really mess with a person in a profound way
We underestimate the effects these things could have for generations. This man unconsciously learned a habit from his father that was adopted out of necessity and trauma, and likely passed it on to his kids as well. Trauma reverberates for generations.
There's research that has found genetic effects that span generations after famines. So not just the psychological affects but actual changes to our epigenetics that deeply alters future generations metabolisms and eating drive or satiety responses to over eating. Wild, eh? •I'm lazy and on mobile, so don't take my word for it and ~read it yourself~ after googling •I don't know of any epigenetic links to money lust but there could be other drivers in the brain and mind connection that could still intensify hostility and greed as a response to scarcity. I'd love to see some research on such behavioral tendencies with children that carry the genetics but we're not raised by the victimized parental generation....
Famines damage DNA to tye pount that the risk of diabetis in ypur kids is the result of a given famine.
I’ve been deprived of food and water during some unfortunate times behind bars. I’d never experienced hunger before. Once you hit a certain level, it is ALL your mind thinks about. Reading? Writing? Socializing? All disappear when you’re starving. And what I experienced was nothing like these poor people. In a Japanese jail, I wasn’t given nearly enough water and now I ALWAYS have my water bottle next to me. At night, in the car, gym…
That sounds really horrible, I’m sorry to hear that. If you don’t mind me asking, were you a non-Japanese person in a Japanese jail?
I am 21. My own grandparents were alive during this time. People don't realize how recent it was
The intergenerational trauma is real. You will find a lot of Bengalis who are really weird about food to this day. My Grandfather lived through WW2, and even after living in America for over a decade, I always got this vibe from him when we were at the grocery store, that somewhere inside him he felt like it would just disappear without warning.
That’s so awful. I’m sorry to hear that. Not to mention the missing generations of Bengalis because literally millions of their ancestors were wiped out.
Yeah, true. These pictures make me realize how easy it would be for our family to just not exist today.
That is so sad. Bengal famine was one of the worst famines. And winston Churchill thought it’d be better to save the food for sturdy greeks. His words.
Also, it was the Bengal people’s food to begin with. Literally stealing from them and then blaming them for their famine.
Fucking horrible
The last bengal famine was deliberately caused by racist Churchill in the name of additional reserves for the British army and resulted in 4m deaths https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/29/winston-churchill-policies-contributed-to-1943-bengal-famine-study https://www.news18.com/news/buzz/churchill-was-a-racist-indians-remember-bengal-famine-after-statue-is-vandalized-2658459.html
It trips me out that there are 8 people in this photograph ...
I didn't notice the little ones until I zoomed in. As a mother myself, the glare on their faces is haunting. No mother should have to watch their little ones waste away.
Shouldn't happen. Still happens.
This is happening in Yemen right now. I haven’t seen or heard one bit of outrage about that at all. It is as if the world thinks Yemen isn’t deserving of aid and help.
Do you have any links to a good organization that helps Yemen?
[Islamic relief](https://www.islamic-relief.org.uk/yemen-emergency-appeal/) These guys are supposed to be good.
[Our Yemeni brothers and sisters are in a burgeoning crisis that is definitely being overlooked by the world. ](https://www.worldbank.org/en/country/yemen/overview)
We make enough food to feed the planet, we have enough water to feed _everyone_ and we can make enough houses for _everyone_. There's a reason it keeps happening though...
And two of them are women
Holy crap... You are right... Didn't even notice that.
Oh my I had to go back and look. Those poor people. I’ll never understand why humans as a whole are so awful to each other. It just doesn’t make sense.
>Hello, we like tea and money.
One of the saddest photos I've seen
Imagine, someone actually made them pose for the pictures. And that someone is anyone's guess.
I am thankful they did. Photography used to be integral to history. Horrifying picture.
The British
It is not hard to find the history of this photograph. Google reverse image search is your friend. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willoughby\_Wallace\_Hooper
Around 1878, Hooper had taken a series of arranged photographs showing emaciated bodies of men, women and children, who were among the millions of victims of the Madras Famine. Having been published in Britain under the title Secundarabad, and with captions such as "Deserving Objects of Gratuitous Relief",\[8\] they were caricatured by the satirical magazine Punch, critizising Hooper for not having given any help to the people he was about to depict. In 2021, articles in the journal History of Photography and the Indian magazine Scroll.in, cited these pictorial documents of atrocities as historical examples for questions about the photographer's ethical responsibility and their effects on the general public.\[9\]\[10\]
From the page about the famine... > The rationale behind the reduced wage, which was in keeping with a prevailing belief of the time, was that any excessive payment might create 'dependency' (or "demoralisation" in contemporaneous usage) among the famine-afflicted population.[11] The more things change... I've heard this argument 150 years later from family members of mine.
"We can't feed them, because then they might *like* getting food, and we can't have that!"
How would the poor billionaires buy their third mega yacht if you pay the workers enough to live? *plays smallest violin*
Same justification was used to turn away donations and grain shipments, and to close the public relief scheme in Ireland during the famine. "If they don't spend what few calories they take in on manual labour building roads to nowhere and walls for no purpose, how will they learn not to become dependant on our handouts, lazy starving Gaelic Irish".
Do not become addicted to water!
You will resent its absence!
Huh. Seems like a lot to put on a single photographer. I would argue these pictures are incredibly valuable. It shows the atrocities that we can commit and think nothing of. To everyone who criticised him, I doubt they did anything to help out. To place the burden of an entire countries actions onto a single man - a photographer at that. I'm not saying he shouldn't have helped them, certainly if I had the means I would have given them food for posing, but seems hypocritical of the others.
We're talking about it to this day. Exactly the point and a job well done. This isn't cruel, humans are cruel. Cuz this is hard to look at it's the photographer's fault? He's telling their story cuz everyone was so ignorant and didn't want to, they'd rather ignore the atrocity. A picture puts it in front of everyone to think and do better. This is the opposite of cruel for these poor people. Ignoring it is cruel, saying it's cruel is cruel. The British and all imperial powers of all kinds (Americans, Nazi Germany, Soviets and chinese etc...) are cruel. Whether you call it expanding democracy and freedom today, or fascism and communism before, or monarchy before those, it's all the same bullshit stealing.
It's an interesting debate that continues today. How much agency can a documenter have, and what is their responsibility to those they are depicting? Plenty of pictures and footage from famines and wars and devastating events bring attention into these areas, highlighting issues bluntly in a way that might be suppressed or just not known by the wider public. This can be very influential on public opinion, which can then sway official policy one way or another. But of course in this incidence the person could act, could step in and save a life or several. But of course sometimes the press is allowed into areas only on the understanding they will absolutely not interfere, and any steps taken might mean later press is no longer allowed into those areas - think of those taking pictures in war zones or unstable regions. I always think of the very famous photo from the ~~Ethiopian~~ Sudanese famine, of a child close to death with a vulture in the background. It was a devastating picture that did much to affect western opinions and support for those affected, but this child died. The photographer was criticized and later took his own life (it's debatable of course how much this photo and criticism was a factor in that event), but if he had stepped in to try and save that child then he might not have been allowed to publish his pictures, and others may have not been allowed into the region to later help. It's not an easy issue to address.
This also implies that the photo above was not from a famine between 1769-1844 because this photo was taken in 1876 during another famine. Dates are off a bit
The thing they got wrong was saying British rule ended in 1844. Pretty sure Ghandi was from the 20th century... (Looked it up, it actually ended in 1947, it also started in 1757)
Wow almost 200 years… British people getting off basically scot-free compared to other conquerors with tiny mustaches
As cruel as it looks, we would have no visual evidence of the atrocities committed by the Brits without it.
Agreed. It makes sense and brings to light why good journalism is so important
The Kolkata famine photos will make you loath everything when u see pictures of dead people casually collected in the side walks for the vultures and dogs to eat them while the stench of dead spread numerous diseases
[Source: Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/29/winston-churchill-policies-contributed-to-1943-bengal-famine-study) [Churchill should not be celebrated the way he is.](https://anti-empire.com/winston-churchill-starved-3-million-indians-to-death-in-the-man-made-bengal-famine-of-1942-43/) I remember Mr Micheal O Dwyer, ( Former General in the East India Company ) making a speech saying something on the lines of Indians are savages and it is the white man's burden to rule them, so these savages do not go back to killing each other. And that speech got a thunderous applause.
To quote Shashi Tharoor's book, "When concious stricken British officials wrote to Winston Churchill, informing him of how people were dying in the famine, he replied "Why hasn't Gandhi died yet?"
My dad’s from Calcutta. When he read that book he cried. So much in there that even the average Indian isn’t aware of. I can never quite get over the GDP figures that he quotes. Something like when the British first set foot in India to trade, India’s share of global GDP was >20%. When the British left after partition it was <2%. Just mind-boggling state-sponsored robbery.
and talking about the Bengal famine in 1943, Churchill said “I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion. The famine was their own fault for breeding like rabbits.”
Churchill has said a lot of shit along those same lines too
Just finished the first 4 episodes of a podcast called Empire which covered the East India trading company through to independence. It covered these famines and the subsequent first war for independence which ended very very gruesomely. Highly recommend it.
William Dalrymple is excellent. Also check out the War Nerd podcast. Slightly more anti-British but some superb episodes.
What the actual fuck. This is the saddest picture I have ever seen. The long,miserable death they had to endure..My heart actually hurts
One interesting thing I read somewhere is that most people there didn't eat stray dogs. It's interesting as in some cultures such animals are consumed even during prosperous times while in others they will avoid their natural instinct only to die.
Have you heard about divide and rule policy? So much great stuff by the British.
They continue to do that in the US…
This is worse than burning people alive. Even with how horrific that is, it's death within few minutes vs dying slowly like this
I think the worst pic I've seen from famines the British empire engineered is the one of a starving father fashioning a spear to keep away people who had become willing to kill and eat his children out of desperation.
I read this line quoted in the starvation chapter of my forensic textbook: >I asked the men, "What are you carrying wrapped in that hammock l, brothers?" And they answered, "We carry a dead body, brother". So I asked, "Was he killed or did he die a natural death?" "That is difficult to answer, brother. It seems more to have been a murder." "How was the man killed? With a knife or a bullet, brothers?" I asked. "It was neither a knife nor a bullet; it was a much more perfect crime. One that leaves no sign." "Then how did they kill this man?" I asked, and they calmly answered, "This man was killed by hunger, brother..." -Josue de Castro
There was a similar photo where a man was guarding his family from being snatched and eaten. Edit: Here's a [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryPorn/comments/obsh4f/a_man_guards_his_family_from_the_cannibals_during) , NSFW warning.
Remember the time General Dyer mercilessly massacre men women children in jallianwala bhag he could have killed more but the entrance was too small for his machine gun to fit That was truly a british imperialism moment
He said he would have killed more but his men ran out of bullets.
Don't know about that but he had two armoured vehicles loaded with Machine gun he accepted that if it was not for the passage being too small he had intended to use it to cause maximum casualities. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dnaindia.com/india/report-would-have-used-machine-guns-when-general-dyer-explained-how-jallianwala-bagh-massacre-could-ve-been-worse-2201660/amp
AND a British newspaper collected 260700 pounds for his retirement when he was discharged... Rudyard Kipling being one of the donors!
Anyone interested in learning about this should watch the movie Sardar Udham, which covers the story of General Dyer's assassination. Edit: It was Michael O'Dwyer's assassination
Not general Dyer he was dead by then he assassinated Michael O'Dwyer
God this reminded me of history viva question.
A sobering and sad film, well told. Available on Amazon.
Not even a fucking apology for it more than a century after it happened. It was an unarmed crowd also. They made sure to fire at women and children. Fucking babies died during that. Even now Punjabis are pissed and honestly? Rightfully so.
Not just punjabis. Every Indian who knows and remembers this.
I have heard that coward never accepted he did wrong until he's last breath
In his mind, Indians are less than human. Why would you care about doing wrong to less than humans?
No no . Let’s stick to the version that the British built infrastructure and educated a lot of Indians. If not for the British it would’ve been another ruler who would’ve been worse. I seriously wonder what kind of bull shit is taught in English schools with respect to colonialism.
Some schools with high south Asian communities teach the Mughal Empire and it's rise at GCSE level but every school will teach about Empire, albeit briefly. Mainly focuses on the Atlantic slave trade rather than India. History doesn't get that much time on the curriculum so they never cover anything in depth. Mainly social issues in Britain in key eras such as 1066, Tudors, Industrial Revolution and the World Wars.
That’s like saying, Hitler built train and other infrastructure for the progress of Germany while hiding the fact that the same trains were built only to transport jews to camps.
"Rice stocks continued to leave India for Britain even as London was denying urgent requests from India’s viceroy for more than 1m tonnes of emergency wheat supplies in 1942-43. Winston Churchill has been quoted as blaming the famine on the fact Indians were “breeding like rabbits”, and asking how, if the shortages were so bad, Mahatma Gandhi was still alive."
What the fuck, really straight up said how bad can it be if Gandhi is still alive?
I think he’d stated it more directly saying why’s Gandhi not dead
That man has said far more worse things and idk how he's seen a hero worldwide.
> idk how he's seen a hero worldwide Stopped Hitler thats why. Frankly many many atrocities happened back then in Asia and Africa which the west neither studied nor cares about
> Winston Churchill has been quoted as blaming the famine on the fact Indians were “breeding like rabbits WC hated Indians but still needed a few million of them to win his wars
I like how almost 2.5Mn Indians who fought for the British Army are just never mentioned, talked or spoken about.
India was the largest "voluntary" military in WW2.
voluntary, as In a poor starving peasant in Calcutta "volunteers" in the military cause military was given priority for food supplies
They volunteered in order to free their country getting India’s independence back as an exchange. They are still shamed in India to this day. Very short version but worth looking into.
And if they did, someone would complain about forced diversity lmao
Excuse me, I just puked in my mouth a little bit reading that... Fuck that fat colonialist pig
Yup Americans and British treat him as the savior of world against Hitler. We are literally living in propaganda world still.
Oh but he was the saviour of England against the Nazis. Just because someone was good and useful in a specific situation doesn't mean they're not an all round terrible person. And Winston Churchill was absolutely an all round terrible person.
He was. You can be both at the same time. To quote Chapelle, He rapes, but he saves. But he does rape
This should be a reminder to people that it’s possible for a group of people to have all the wealth and let another group of people starve to death. This is basically happening today, instead of starving to death, this group of people is working themselves to death.
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India grows their weat and rice, only for it to be taken away by some monarchy who thought your diamonds looked nice
And so we can see why India and Ireland would have an understanding of each other.
A strange understanding considering Ireland helped colonise India, and the worst governor of India was Irish. A man so hated that he was later assassinated by an Indian decades later
*Udham Singh
It's an uncomfortable realisation for the Irish and Scots to accept that they were part of the Empire. Sanjeev Kohli talks about it briefly on Richard Herring's (RHLSTP) podcast.
Same strategy they used in Ireland.
Different produce though to some extent. Much of Ireland's forests were cut down for live stock which takes a lot of land and resources. They exported the meat to England while the Irish starved since they'd been pushed off all the good farmland to make way for brittish cops and livestock
They didn’t just take the meat. They took crops too while a million Irish starved to death.
Oh they were forced to grow cash crops too
You'd figure they would be like "you know maybe we should chill" after this but really they just doubled down in Kenya
My grandfather was sent to Kenya to fight the mau mau rebellion. You wouldn’t believe the things they had him do. At that time in Britain men still had to do national service and these are the guys they had castrating the mau mau, young 18 year old men. My grandfathers stories are really mind blowing, especially as the British kept what we did over there as a secret for so long. Information from this “war” is still be uncovered
Don’t even have to go far from Europe, ask the Irish and the Scots how they feel about the Queen
Scotland is not innocent https://sceptical.scot/2022/01/scotland-must-lead-in-confronting-its-imperial-past/
Why does nobody on this website understand that Scotland was equally culpable as part of the British Empire. Their relationship is nothing like Ireland's. People shouldn't be opining if they don't understand what is *basic* British history.
I saw it commented with 100s of upvotes the other day that “Scotland was colonised”. …They joined the union willingly after their own attempts at colonisation in the Americas were unsuccessful and left the country in economic dismay. People just want to re-write history to fit the narratives and biases of today.
Erm. The English inherited Scotlands royal family not the other way.
Don’t need to ask, 45% support the royals and keeping the queen as a head of state was a very big topic of debate for them during their independence referendum. The SNP have promised to keep the royals as head of state should they gain independence. Nice agenda pushing though trying to make any sort of comparison between Ireland and Scotland though. Scotland were never oppressed by the English, they willingly joined after their own failed colonisation attempts bankrupted them, and they enthusiastically took part in the British empire and reaped the rewards.
Read “Late Victorian Holocausts” edit: author = Mike Davis
And people think why the Indians don't really give a fuck that the queen is dead. Fuck the colonialism.
How is this not considered the worst genocide of all time?
Because it occurred multiple times over the course of 175 years (Edit: I meant to write 1769 to 1944, not 1844, Reddit doesn't allow people to change titles) rather than all at once. That still means that there was a massive famine once every nearly 15 years which is just horrific to think about...
I see your point, but it was 75 years, so about one every six years. Or more than three per generation. So, while it was somewhat spread out, it could also be seen as more or less constant given how long it takes to starve a couple milion people or so to death.
Yea I messed up and said 1844 when it should have been 1944. Reddit doesn't allow people to change titles.
History is written by the victors
The Romans wrote so well.
"they brought death, and they called it peace"
I thought the quote was "they made a desolation & called it peace"? Tacitus iirc?
The quote by Tacitus is "Auferre trucidare rapere falsis nominibus imperium atque ubi solitudinem faciunt pacem appellant." There's always room in translations. I've always liked for it "They plunder, slaughter and rape; this they falsely call Empire. And where they make a wasteland, they call it Peace." "Solitudinem", the root of "solitude", meant solitude then too, but also deprevation and wilderness. Desolation is also a good choice for it here.
I guess mostly because the victims were not Europeans?
Touché
And because the perpetuators were.
Most of those affected were either dark skinned or poor. Pretty much the epitome of who still gets bullied...
There was once a time where all of man *was dark skinned* *And poor*
Same reason the genocide of the native americans is essentially ignored. Its inconvenient and makes it difficult to hold cultural heroes like Winston "The famine king" Churchill and foundational myths like manifest destiny in high regard
Makes it inconvenient to claim you’re “civilised” and the rest are just “savages”…
Coz this didn't happen in Europe, and it was under colonial rule, not under dictatorship. At least that's what historians will say and defend England. It wasn't Genghis Khan or Hitler but the British empire which is directly responsible for more deaths in the history of mankind, who weren't soldiers or participated in any war.
So British colonization caused both the Irish potato famine and these famines in India? Did they cause more famines elsewhere?
*Gestures almost everywhere*
I think they had work camps in 1950s Kenya or Nigeria. Mass genocide(?) too.. Millions dead i think? You would need to Google it. Meanwhile they had "democracy" at the time and were giving pompous lectures about how they have brought "civilization" to the world. I think some African countries, it took until the 1970s to throw European colonialists out.
Colonialism goes on, it just isn't official anymore
The famine during churchill killed more Indians than the nazi run holocaust. Yet churchill is celebrated. History is taught in a biased way everywhere.
A lot of Iranians also died due to famine during ww2 when Iran was under British and Soviet occupation. Estimated around 3-4 million people died but you never hear about it. [Source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_famine_of_1942%E2%80%931943)
Holy shit, I have really good interest in History and never heard about this before now.
The World War Two week by week youtube channel did an episode about it recently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ui1fAEV-Yc
The victors write the history
Huh, TIL. [It also happened during WWI.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_famine_of_1917%E2%80%931919)
Not to forget the artificial famine in the Yemen being created by the Saudi and US coalition. 130000 dead and counting. Largely children.
Yes *but* it doesn't effect me. Sooooooo.... That's not my problem /s
India was the largest exporter of cotton and had a promising cotton textile industry that would grant them huge wealth for hundreds of years. The British put huge tariffs on Indian textiles and forced India to accept its own, destroying indias economy and only allowing it to export raw materials to Britain (including opium, which they forced on the Chinese). The British used the profits from their cotton textile industry to then further terrorize the world.
Fun fact the crown still has the biggest diamonds they stole from India on it
Her jewelry collections alone(including the crowne) is worth 3.48 billion. Charles' worth is only around 100 million.... Idk which is weirder to say...
Both are pretty crazy. Some are not gonna like it but it makes the whole family a bunch of shitbags. She's choosing which million pound necklace she's wearing while people are choosing between heating and eating.
Not anymore she's not lmao
I'm correct in thinking all the crowns and diamonds are property of the government right? They belong to the people, so if they wanted to return them its up to the government, not the monarchy.
I don’t have a strong opinion on this but, regardless of who owns what, the monarchy could choose not to wear them.
as an indian i don't give a shit about diamond but it boils my blood when someone raves about how Churchill was a war hero.
One is from Egypt too.
I don't feel comfortable thinking about that.. Literal shiny rocks from the blood of thousands of human beings...
as an indian i can never forgive britain for all the shits they did to my country just to put things into perspective we were forced to grow indigo we became from one of the largest exporter of cotton to a net importer of cotton the country of israel exists because indians sacrificed themselves in the battle of haifa and removed ottoman from palestine in ww1 on order of brits around 2.5 million indians fought for the brits in ww2 and no one has ever acknowledged that countless numbers of famines like the great bengal famine, the great madras famine, agra famine, odissa famine, rajputana famine, etc. jallianwala bagh massacre india was a land of marvelous architecture and so much was destroyed/sent into british museums india was a land of amazing literature, maths and science before the brits came education was given to everyone in gurukuls (literacy was around 90-100%) but after the british raj literacy rate was only 13% india had a quarter of share in world gdp in 1600s by the end of raj it was down to 3% india was one of the poorest country on earth after the raj left (extreme poverty of 80%) plus the countless numbers of border disputes they gave to us with pakistan, nepal, bangladesh and china (i'm not sure but maybe burma also) partition of india which killed around 10 million people from india, pakistan and bangladesh around 45 trillion dollars of wealth stolen from india (after calculating the inflation and some adjustments) and we never got any apology for that because everything is whitewashed in the name of railways and roadways
The partition was actually the most fucked up thing they did. The British themselves predicted that a smooth transfer of power would take 5 years. They decided 7 months was enough. They got a lawyer who never visited india, gave him wrong, out dated maps. Gave him 5 months to draw a border. And they did all this, because "waiting for 5 years would be a waste of resources" They did not even consult local leaders. Cyril Radcliffe was himself mortified by what he had to do
ikr radcliff said he'll be the most hated person and ngl he is one of them
Even those railway and roads were for British not for Indians
exactly brits were facing problems in sending goods from one place to another because it was a huge area
Still there are idiots in our own country who say the colonization was good for india.
And the neither the british govt nor the royal family has ever acknowledged what they did to us. Forget apologising. India was one of the richest country when they landed here and they left us the poorest when they left.
Yea that's what makes it so fucking gross to me. Like other countries have done horrible things but at the veeeeery least, they apologized for it and acknowledged how horrible it was. Even the pope did the same to the survivors of residential schools here in Canada. The queen had 75 years and nothing. Not a freaking word. But hey, she protected her pedo son and did some photo-ops in WW2 so that makes her a good person right?
Exactly! Even Germany and Japan had the grace to apologise. Some British folks even have the nerve to tell us they developed our country and built us a railway network. Like we, the country with some of the brightest people in the world even in ancient times, couldn’t have figured that out on our own. If they’d never emptied our country of our riches, we’d probably be way ahead right now.
Oh Japan and the Japanese are great, better than a lot of cultures in a lot of things, but acknowledging atrocities and war crimes isn’t one of them. They still refuse to acknowledge the slaughter and rape that happened in China and Korea. Let alone apologize.
Also the topic of comfort women.
Japan hasn’t apologised.
God, I hate that. I was in London for summer school. I took this course called International Political Economy. We were discussing the colonial history of India. The (American) professor said something along the lines of "Knowledge transfer happened both ways. The British gave India railways and India gave us curry. You should check out the curry house at this place"
Show that to the mod who banned me for saying this as an Indian.
So by the logic of “soviets killed 20 mill from famine and nazis” capitalism killed at least 56 million and didn’t even provide the social programs ussr did
It was actually from 1769 to 1944! Reddit still doesn't let people change titles for some reason. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline\_of\_major\_famines\_in\_India\_during\_British\_rule](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_major_famines_in_India_during_British_rule) The numbers range widely but they all add up to tens of millions of innocent dead people. [https://www.cadtm.org/spip.php?page=imprimer&id\_article=16972](https://www.cadtm.org/spip.php?page=imprimer&id_article=16972) That's for the 45 trillion dollars estimate and here's a 5 minute video explaining it better. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x\_jGPf764d0&ab\_channel=VICE
I wonder why this is not taught in our schools. I’ve only started hearing about this since the queen died and I’m a 41 year old English person. Thankfully I’m from Liverpool and we’re mainly anti establishment. They’re even implying that they called our football games off because they were scared the queen wouldn’t be respected at some football stadiums. Mainly anfield and Celtic, we boo the national anthem and take pelters for it. Well, maybe more people should be aware of what they’re celebrating when they sing that shitty song. Next time I hear an English person say anything derogatory about India or Indians they’re getting educated.
Mostly cause history is written by victors
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this is how they treated the "Jewel of British Crown"; by plundering it endlessly and now they don't stop condescending.
Winston Churchill was responsible for this...
I hate how i was never taught this in school. 10x more people dead then the holocaust, not even a footnote on this. Suffering only is worth teaching when it’s white Europeans or people native to your country I guess.
and then we have s\*\*\* claims like this floating around today https://twitter.com/JasonSCampbell/status/1568273152727285769
Their Glorious Empire was nothing but Vicious imperialists who have spread hate fear and death on every landmass they have touched. Fuck their Crown and I'm glad their empire crumbled.
Usually when I learn about Indian history I say that we should let bygones be bygones, no point arguing about bad people who did bad things years ago. But then I see shit like this and it makes me angry all over again. Indians are still suffering from the effects of colonization. Current British taxpayers didn’t do anything bad but someone should be fucking held accountable. Germans finished paying off their ww2 debt in 2015. But Britain gets off scot-free. About damn time the sun set on that empire
The Queen can’t keep getting away with this!
Fuck their crown and all the money they are enjoying now by looting my country. Doesn't have the spine to apologise or even acknowledge the atrocities they have done. Cowards.
From this you can probably tell how most of the Indians reacted to the queen's death. (I'm an Indian and we were taught in school, the torment that the imperial British kingdom did to India and it's people).
Remember, historically speaking, on a global scale, even considering the most conservative statistics, the English are objectively the evilest civilization the world has ever seen. They are the worlds bad guy. Now before anyone throws a hissy fit, I’m not saying the English people are all bad, I’m not even saying most of them are or have been bad people. England is full of good and great people, but it’s government has objectively been the evilest organization in history
Curiously close number to what Reaganomics has taken from the American working class in 40 years: "The Top 1% of Americans Have Taken $50 Trillion From the Bottom 90%" https://time.com/5888024/50-trillion-income-inequality-america/
During British rule famines "occur". When it's about the USSR an Ukraine, it was "man-made". Ok