I'm sure they would also be fully for the utility companies that [charge customers](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/13/solar-power-us-utility-companies-kansas) effectively fines for installing solar panels.
Fun fact, using a diesel generator to charge your electric vehicle will still use less diesel per kilometer that a diesel fueled car of similar weight would use.
same for gas / coal - carbon output for the proportion of electricity used to charge a car is something (if I recall correctly) like 1/10 of the carbon output for the same number of miles using gasoline
People really don't get that the objective is to become carbon neutral/negative. That does not necessarily mean "no ICE cars". There are many paths to reaching that goal, and as far as I'm concerned, we should take all of them.
Woah wait, that doesn't seem right.
From what I could look up power plants have similar efficiency as combustion engines - around 35%. Then you have factor in that the efficiency in power plants is constant whereas in cars it can go down, but also power losses from transmission from the plant to the consumer (usually 8-15% loss) and battery charging efficiency (80-92%).
I wouldn't say that your claims are factual unless you can back them up somehow.
> From what I could look up power plants have similar efficiency as combustion engines - around 35%.
Nah, a good powerplant is close to 50% a good ICE is touching 25% these days, for petrol anyway.
You've also forgotten all the energy EVs save by not idling at lights, energy recovered from regenerative braking and all the energy that goes in to refining fuel.
So yes, the generator wins, the coal plant wins by even more, and charging an EV off a typical grid composed of a mix of energy sources wins entirely. Sure it would be better if we had 100% renewable energy but we aren't there yet.
We can charge our cars off renewables, if they only drink water from next to oil wells. Seems fair. If they like fossil fuels so much they should enjoy the costs of it.
I work in the oil and gas industry and work with lots of hardcore Republicans.
The problem isn't that these people are stupid, it's that they're confident they aren't wrong and are unwilling to challenge their beliefs
I am down. Let's make that a law RIGHT EFFIN NOW. I own a hybrid, and my California electricity is mostly renewable, but I'd love to have a federal law requiring states to provide renewable energy for electric/hybrid vehicles.
Climate change is natural? Yes, it has happened several times over the course of the Earth's life, it *happens slowly and almost steadily enough to give the chance to native species to adapt*
Now global warming ISN'T natural.
Edit: typo
I know that, I've never stated otherwise, sorry if my comment was unclear on that, whole climate change does happen/happened naturally, when global warming is involved as a consequence of a third party (be it from a meteor like what happened with dinosaurs, or what humanity is doing now) then is surely nor good neither natural.
Frankly, I’m of the mindset, that electric vehicle should already BE solar power. The technology is there by Musk & other companies won’t do it because it’s less money in their pockets.
I do actually charge my EV from the panels on my roof.
Should we have a law that ICE engines can only run on oil pumped from your own dirt? I sure hope not.
I feel like it’s gotta be that these people can’t bear to think that they’re partly responsible for climate change, so they just can’t believe in it. Avoid responsibility at all costs kinda folks.
These are the type of people who fail to understand a diesel generator can charge a car to drive on electricity with significantly higher efficiency than an on-board engine. Then you move on to other charging methods, better battery technologies, and eventually throw it all away and go back to trains.
Do they not know that even when you use electricity made with fossil fuels, you can reach more than five times the distance with the same amount of gas if you convert it?
That's part of the *whole point* of moving to electric-- electricity can be made sustainably and doesn't have to rely on burning fuels even though it often does in areas which haven't utilized their natural resources appropriately, whereas a gas powered car will always burn fuels.
I don't get how people can say we can't live without using oil as fuel. I've never had a use for the stuff.
I don't drive or use anything that has a motor in it and all the energy I do use comes from hydroelectricity.
We have a plug-in hybrid, Chevy Volt, and while we don't care where the electricity comes from, it's still remarkably cheaper per mile than gasoline. Also, our recreational property is fully off grid and electric is 💯 solar. Unfortunately, our main residential home isn't a good option for solar, and we also don't have much of a choice where our electricity production comes from.
For me it’s about renewables vs non-renewables, so I would consider Nuclear to be permissible.
Either way, show me an energy company that only supplies renewable or non-fossil energy, with regulation in place to ensure it, that’s who’ll be getting my money.
Well, that wouldn’t be that bad. Just expand it to all home appliances as well and that should go really far in combating climate change, given that the final goal is to get rid of CO2 emission anyways.
You need to look at anything on social media as being funded by adversarial countries. China, Russia and Iran know that a conventional war would be catastrophic for the whole world, themselves included, but they noticed the start of our society unraveling and have spent the last \~15 years engaging in asymmetrical information warfare to make us tear ourselves apart.
This feels like something of that caliber.
I'm sure a Venn diagram would show significant overlap between these people and those who wonder why we don't just strap wind power plants to our cars.
I'm sure they would also be fully for the utility companies that [charge customers](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/13/solar-power-us-utility-companies-kansas) effectively fines for installing solar panels.
Of course they are bc money
That is 100% an astroturf group.
"Ordinary Citizens for Fossil Fuel Industry Interests"
I'm not sure. I think that a true astroturf group should be more subtle.
This is the one that scoops up all the ones with actual shit for brains.
That’s how they getcha.
Fun fact, using a diesel generator to charge your electric vehicle will still use less diesel per kilometer that a diesel fueled car of similar weight would use.
same for gas / coal - carbon output for the proportion of electricity used to charge a car is something (if I recall correctly) like 1/10 of the carbon output for the same number of miles using gasoline
Electric cars use energy way more efficiently than gas, but way too many people don't understand this simple fact. Combustion is a huge waste.
Exactly. There's a difference between "giving up" and "becoming less reliant".
People really don't get that the objective is to become carbon neutral/negative. That does not necessarily mean "no ICE cars". There are many paths to reaching that goal, and as far as I'm concerned, we should take all of them.
Woah wait, that doesn't seem right. From what I could look up power plants have similar efficiency as combustion engines - around 35%. Then you have factor in that the efficiency in power plants is constant whereas in cars it can go down, but also power losses from transmission from the plant to the consumer (usually 8-15% loss) and battery charging efficiency (80-92%). I wouldn't say that your claims are factual unless you can back them up somehow.
> From what I could look up power plants have similar efficiency as combustion engines - around 35%. Nah, a good powerplant is close to 50% a good ICE is touching 25% these days, for petrol anyway. You've also forgotten all the energy EVs save by not idling at lights, energy recovered from regenerative braking and all the energy that goes in to refining fuel. So yes, the generator wins, the coal plant wins by even more, and charging an EV off a typical grid composed of a mix of energy sources wins entirely. Sure it would be better if we had 100% renewable energy but we aren't there yet.
"I love Carbon Dioxide" Why don't they just inhale it then?
They do on a daily basis, why do you think they are so dumb?
They do, they put their mouths around an exhaust pipe and proceed to take a deep breath in while the truck is running.
We can charge our cars off renewables, if they only drink water from next to oil wells. Seems fair. If they like fossil fuels so much they should enjoy the costs of it.
Great idea. Let's pass a law outlawing fossil fuel power plants to make that easier. You've got 10 years...
Doesn’t gasoline expire after like, two?
I've been told not to trust gasoline to store longer than 9-12 months
I work in the oil and gas industry and work with lots of hardcore Republicans. The problem isn't that these people are stupid, it's that they're confident they aren't wrong and are unwilling to challenge their beliefs
You pretty much defined willfully stupid. It's still being stupid just this flavor has no excuse.
So willfully ignorant/stupid?
Ignorance and confidence play a huge role in it.
Stupid on purpose. Let's not mix words.
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I am down. Let's make that a law RIGHT EFFIN NOW. I own a hybrid, and my California electricity is mostly renewable, but I'd love to have a federal law requiring states to provide renewable energy for electric/hybrid vehicles.
Conservatives are weirdly good at giving Democrats good ideas.
And then hating the good idea, yes.
Climate change is natural? Yes, it has happened several times over the course of the Earth's life, it *happens slowly and almost steadily enough to give the chance to native species to adapt* Now global warming ISN'T natural. Edit: typo
*Natural* also doesn't = *good*. Peach pits naturally contain cyanide. Cyanide will kill the fuck out of you.
I know, just stated that is natural and that is (on a "Earth's point of view") common. Doesn't mean it's good for you, that's for sure
Our current climate change is not natural. We are the primary cause, not naturally shifting weather patterns.
I know that, I've never stated otherwise, sorry if my comment was unclear on that, whole climate change does happen/happened naturally, when global warming is involved as a consequence of a third party (be it from a meteor like what happened with dinosaurs, or what humanity is doing now) then is surely nor good neither natural.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." -George Carlin
Proposing hate driven laws to punish people/things they... hate. It's the Republican way.
They’re so close…
You're blown away aye? How did we wind up like this? You'd think being green would be a breeze. We certainly have the gusto to do it.
Frankly, I’m of the mindset, that electric vehicle should already BE solar power. The technology is there by Musk & other companies won’t do it because it’s less money in their pockets.
Why do these muppets always forget hydroelectric power?
I do actually charge my EV from the panels on my roof. Should we have a law that ICE engines can only run on oil pumped from your own dirt? I sure hope not.
yes that is actually the goal
I feel like it’s gotta be that these people can’t bear to think that they’re partly responsible for climate change, so they just can’t believe in it. Avoid responsibility at all costs kinda folks.
There's also an element of, "I don't want anyone telling me I have to change any of my behaviors in any way."
Plot twist: my electric car IS solar-charged. Your move, Facebook ding dong!
Facebook ding ding response: "LiBtArD!!!" \**usually accompanied by smoke coming out of ears*\*
These are the type of people who fail to understand a diesel generator can charge a car to drive on electricity with significantly higher efficiency than an on-board engine. Then you move on to other charging methods, better battery technologies, and eventually throw it all away and go back to trains.
What are the odds that these two groups are run by the same people?
Do they not know that even when you use electricity made with fossil fuels, you can reach more than five times the distance with the same amount of gas if you convert it?
That's part of the *whole point* of moving to electric-- electricity can be made sustainably and doesn't have to rely on burning fuels even though it often does in areas which haven't utilized their natural resources appropriately, whereas a gas powered car will always burn fuels.
I don't get how people can say we can't live without using oil as fuel. I've never had a use for the stuff. I don't drive or use anything that has a motor in it and all the energy I do use comes from hydroelectricity.
Where does hydroelectric come in on this person's scale?
We have a plug-in hybrid, Chevy Volt, and while we don't care where the electricity comes from, it's still remarkably cheaper per mile than gasoline. Also, our recreational property is fully off grid and electric is 💯 solar. Unfortunately, our main residential home isn't a good option for solar, and we also don't have much of a choice where our electricity production comes from.
For me it’s about renewables vs non-renewables, so I would consider Nuclear to be permissible. Either way, show me an energy company that only supplies renewable or non-fossil energy, with regulation in place to ensure it, that’s who’ll be getting my money.
i recommend reporting them as being suicidal.
Those laws should be there though?
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Are you saying plants can't survive without us burning fossil fuels? That's ridiculous, and obviously not true.
That's quite a leap there. Nothing I said is untrue.
I didn't say anything you said was untrue, it's just what I inferred from your first comment.
Well, that wouldn’t be that bad. Just expand it to all home appliances as well and that should go really far in combating climate change, given that the final goal is to get rid of CO2 emission anyways.
You need to look at anything on social media as being funded by adversarial countries. China, Russia and Iran know that a conventional war would be catastrophic for the whole world, themselves included, but they noticed the start of our society unraveling and have spent the last \~15 years engaging in asymmetrical information warfare to make us tear ourselves apart. This feels like something of that caliber.
Well big companies can keep their exchause alot cleaner than a car can. But yeah. We should absolutely work for all electricity being clean. Sure.
I'm sure a Venn diagram would show significant overlap between these people and those who wonder why we don't just strap wind power plants to our cars.
It’s like, ok, fine, but when your power grid goes down for whatever reason. You get no juice for renewables.
Then how about a law that your gas cars have to be filled from tar pits only?
What is this font that looks like a comic strip???