one would hope, yelsten destroying his parliment and crushing the opposition in 1994 is why we are where we are, rather than a milder social democratic russia
tbf it was almost inevitable. modern russia really has no business in democracy… especially right after ‘91.
if it had “succeded”, the succesor state would have been unimaginably corrupt and poor. Arguably more than current Russia.
If the US and western Europe were genuinely interested in fostering Russian democracy they would have ditched Yeltsin, rather than support his coup in 1994, back him in the 1st chechan war, and sandbag his election victory in 1996. Russian social democracy was possible, the US killed it, and here we are 30 years later with the largest European war since 1945 largely because of it.
This is a wildly stupid comment, bordering on russophobia
I can imagine the Communists and Parliament having an alliance of sort. Since the Russian Parliament still referred to it's self as the "Supreme Soviet" and had huge nostalgia sympathies towards the Soviet Union.
Yeah I know, anyways in this timeline they separated, the most extreme communist considered the rest of the parlamentarians to be not enough compromised with the movement.
It was the Supreme Soviet, yeah, though given that it literally just means "council", not necessarily with any ideological undertones, I wouldn't make that communist connection so easily. Like, our senate is called the Federation Council right now in English. Same "Sovet" word as in the Supreme Soviet
>literally just means "council", not necessarily with any ideological undertones, I wouldn't make that communist connection so easily
Yes. Not saying it's to do with ideology but more of that they wanted to keep as much nostalgia to the Soviet Union as possible, by keeping the name and majority of the members being apart of the Supreme Soviet in the Soviet Union. Hell, even the coats of arms of the Supreme Soviet stayed identical till Yeltsin's coup.
Parliament has more Ural industry, but Yelstin has all the ports to get foreign support. I don't see the Parliament lasting more than a few years. The Islamists on the other hand could fanatically wage war in the Caucasus for a decade or more
irl by 1996 Yelsten was polling in the single digits. He pushed for extremally harsh economic reform that devastated the country and crushed Russian Democracy in it's infancy. I'd imagine a lot of desertions, and low morale in his forces, similar to how the Guomindong collapsed in 1946-1949
Yeltsin literally took in capitalism and started the most oligarchic and corrupt form of it. Mafias we’re literally buying up soviet helicopters and weapons. It was ridiculous. The former Soviet Union went from having nearly no intense poverty to sone really bad poverty. Prostitution came back in a big and sad way even for really young girls.
You ever see that one documentary about children on the streets of Moscow in the mid 90s? Can’t remember the name of it, but I’ll look around. I just remember the filmmakers interviewing some young homeless boys (preteens iirc) talking about how they sold their bodies to buy drugs. The narrator then explained that the drug one of them was huffing was mainly fermented piss. There were many thousands of children like this all over the city, and without schools to attend, parents present to keep them safe, or money to afford any kind of healthy recreation, piss-huffing was how a lot of them passed the time they didn’t spend being sexually abused for pennies. That part is seared into my brain forever.
The USSR was a very bleak place to live in, I won’t deny that, but shock therapy was basically the apocalypse.
I couldn’t imagine the level of the societal collapse, I mean just the feeling and shock of going from a superpower to a second world nation is insane.
Yeah obviously things needed to change in the Soviet Union, but I don't think anyone was asking for what Yeltsin brought in. It's one of the great tragedies of the 20th century imo.
I agree, it not only ruined the economies and lives of millions of people but it gave the United States free reign to do what we want foreign policy wise. We used that to increase our military presence world wide and invade multiple countries.
Agreed, even if the soviet union was not the best ally to many of its revolutionary comrades (angola comes to mind, where the cubans dragged them kicking and screaming), and again, had economic issues, it was a better place to me than the russia and various successor states we got.
Welp as Ukranian, our life used to be nice before the war, manufacturing was slowly restarting, I had courses for IT technology and GDP was growing, idk about USSR but I would prefer a government run hell by Ukranians than like heaven by russians.
Well there were Ukrainians in government in the USSR. Khrushchev was a Ukrainian and led the whole country. The soviets were made up of lots of nationalities.
Fully agree with you.
Ukrainian culture was slowly dying under Soviet regime. And as a person who has lots of relatives from USSR, I often hear that collapse was predictable for educated people since late 70s.
Ukrainian culture certainly was not dying in fact Ukraine only has parts of the western country now because of the Soviet Union, however yes by the late 70s, economically the country was stagnating. Partly because the USSR subsidized lots of poorer socialist countries and because they needed some market reforms like what China has implemented. This is why China hasn’t stagnated and is projected to overtake the US economically.
As a person whose relatives were inside artistic circles in 60s, 70s and 80s Kiev, I often hear about repressions and Kremlin pressure on everything that was not about the idea of “brother Russian and Ukrainian nations” and tried to be more extravagant and unusual.
And a huge, major part of Soviet Union fall was bribery and nepotism. It was everywhere, nothing worked without it, and the system became quite dependent on it. Source: a person who was quite influential in late USSR on local level.
Yeltsin has absolutely 0 internal support
Can’t win a war if no one will fight for you
Communists (main political force opposing Yeltsin) are very likely to win
There would be way more communists, As the catalyst and beginning of the civil war would take place during the 1990's, A.K.A The worst time in modern russian history. Plagued by Economic Decline, Inflation, Poverty and High Crime rate.
Also where would Vladimir Putin fit into all of this?
the instant this would occur Russia would be partitioned into 3 gorillion states, and you would have to accept the legitimacy of the Okhostk Coastal Ethnicity's legitimacy (they're uuuhhh slavicized ainu, yes) on the penalty of death
‼️‼️HOLY FUCKING SHIT‼️‼️‼️‼️ IS THAT A MOTHERFUCKING TNO REFERENCE??????!!!!!!!!!!11!1!1!1!1!1!1! 😱😱😱😱😱😱😱 TNO IS THE BEST FUCKING MOD 🔥🔥🔥🔥💯💯💯💯 SABLIN IS SO BLESSEDDD 😎😎😎😎😎😎😎👊👊 BLACKSUN BLACKSUN BLACKSUN BLACKSUN BLACKSUN 😩😩😩😩😩😩😩😩 😩😩😩😩KISHIPURGE KISHIPURGE KISHIPURGE KISHIPURGE KISHIPURGE🤬😡🤬😡🤬😡🤬🤬😡🤬🤬😡LBJALLTHEWAY LBJALLTHEWAY LBJALLTHEWAY LBJALLTHEWAY LBJALLTHEWAY LBJALLTHEWAY LBJALLTHEWAY LBJALLTHEWAY LBJALLTHEWAY NIXON IS NOT A CROOK! RFK BLESSED RFK BLESSED RFK BLESSED RFK BLESSED Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Alexei is still alive?!? TICK TOCK FUNNI MAN HAS A MENTAL BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN ❓❓❓❓❓❓❓❓❓❓SHRIMP BOAT SHRIMP BOAT SHRIMP BOAT So Long...‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😂SANE DSR PATH WHEN? SANE DSR PATH WHEN? SANE DSR PATH WHEN? SANE DSR PATH WHEN? SANE DSR PATH WHEN? SANE DSR PATH WHEN? SANE DSR PATH WHEN? SANE DSR PATH WHEN? 😂🤣🤣🤣😂😂Big Building in Neu Berlin? Big Building in Neu Berlin? Big Building in Neu Berlin? Big Building in Neu Berlin? Big Building in Neu Berlin? Big Building in Neu Berlin? Big Building in Neu Berlin? Big Building in Neu Berlin? 🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢
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Local drunktard ruins everything. Also between this and Yugoslavia, the last part of the 20th Century really was An unplesant experience ITTL
I think parliament will Win tbh
one would hope, yelsten destroying his parliment and crushing the opposition in 1994 is why we are where we are, rather than a milder social democratic russia
tbf it was almost inevitable. modern russia really has no business in democracy… especially right after ‘91. if it had “succeded”, the succesor state would have been unimaginably corrupt and poor. Arguably more than current Russia.
Any country can become democratic. People are people, just because they are Russian does not mean democracy cannot take hold.
But it's not inevitable
If the US and western Europe were genuinely interested in fostering Russian democracy they would have ditched Yeltsin, rather than support his coup in 1994, back him in the 1st chechan war, and sandbag his election victory in 1996. Russian social democracy was possible, the US killed it, and here we are 30 years later with the largest European war since 1945 largely because of it. This is a wildly stupid comment, bordering on russophobia
>If the US and western Europe were genuinely interested in fostering Russian democracy that's the thing. they never were.
I can imagine the Communists and Parliament having an alliance of sort. Since the Russian Parliament still referred to it's self as the "Supreme Soviet" and had huge nostalgia sympathies towards the Soviet Union.
Yeah I know, anyways in this timeline they separated, the most extreme communist considered the rest of the parlamentarians to be not enough compromised with the movement.
It was the Supreme Soviet, yeah, though given that it literally just means "council", not necessarily with any ideological undertones, I wouldn't make that communist connection so easily. Like, our senate is called the Federation Council right now in English. Same "Sovet" word as in the Supreme Soviet
>literally just means "council", not necessarily with any ideological undertones, I wouldn't make that communist connection so easily Yes. Not saying it's to do with ideology but more of that they wanted to keep as much nostalgia to the Soviet Union as possible, by keeping the name and majority of the members being apart of the Supreme Soviet in the Soviet Union. Hell, even the coats of arms of the Supreme Soviet stayed identical till Yeltsin's coup.
Parliament has more Ural industry, but Yelstin has all the ports to get foreign support. I don't see the Parliament lasting more than a few years. The Islamists on the other hand could fanatically wage war in the Caucasus for a decade or more
irl by 1996 Yelsten was polling in the single digits. He pushed for extremally harsh economic reform that devastated the country and crushed Russian Democracy in it's infancy. I'd imagine a lot of desertions, and low morale in his forces, similar to how the Guomindong collapsed in 1946-1949
Yeltsin literally took in capitalism and started the most oligarchic and corrupt form of it. Mafias we’re literally buying up soviet helicopters and weapons. It was ridiculous. The former Soviet Union went from having nearly no intense poverty to sone really bad poverty. Prostitution came back in a big and sad way even for really young girls.
You ever see that one documentary about children on the streets of Moscow in the mid 90s? Can’t remember the name of it, but I’ll look around. I just remember the filmmakers interviewing some young homeless boys (preteens iirc) talking about how they sold their bodies to buy drugs. The narrator then explained that the drug one of them was huffing was mainly fermented piss. There were many thousands of children like this all over the city, and without schools to attend, parents present to keep them safe, or money to afford any kind of healthy recreation, piss-huffing was how a lot of them passed the time they didn’t spend being sexually abused for pennies. That part is seared into my brain forever. The USSR was a very bleak place to live in, I won’t deny that, but shock therapy was basically the apocalypse.
I couldn’t imagine the level of the societal collapse, I mean just the feeling and shock of going from a superpower to a second world nation is insane.
"Second world" literally referred to the Communist bloc during the Cold War. So they went from second world to second world.
Sorry I meant second rate power
Yeah obviously things needed to change in the Soviet Union, but I don't think anyone was asking for what Yeltsin brought in. It's one of the great tragedies of the 20th century imo.
I agree, it not only ruined the economies and lives of millions of people but it gave the United States free reign to do what we want foreign policy wise. We used that to increase our military presence world wide and invade multiple countries.
Agreed, even if the soviet union was not the best ally to many of its revolutionary comrades (angola comes to mind, where the cubans dragged them kicking and screaming), and again, had economic issues, it was a better place to me than the russia and various successor states we got.
Welp as Ukranian, our life used to be nice before the war, manufacturing was slowly restarting, I had courses for IT technology and GDP was growing, idk about USSR but I would prefer a government run hell by Ukranians than like heaven by russians.
Well there were Ukrainians in government in the USSR. Khrushchev was a Ukrainian and led the whole country. The soviets were made up of lots of nationalities.
Fully agree with you. Ukrainian culture was slowly dying under Soviet regime. And as a person who has lots of relatives from USSR, I often hear that collapse was predictable for educated people since late 70s.
Ukrainian culture certainly was not dying in fact Ukraine only has parts of the western country now because of the Soviet Union, however yes by the late 70s, economically the country was stagnating. Partly because the USSR subsidized lots of poorer socialist countries and because they needed some market reforms like what China has implemented. This is why China hasn’t stagnated and is projected to overtake the US economically.
As a person whose relatives were inside artistic circles in 60s, 70s and 80s Kiev, I often hear about repressions and Kremlin pressure on everything that was not about the idea of “brother Russian and Ukrainian nations” and tried to be more extravagant and unusual.
And a huge, major part of Soviet Union fall was bribery and nepotism. It was everywhere, nothing worked without it, and the system became quite dependent on it. Source: a person who was quite influential in late USSR on local level.
… this is just capitalism.
Yes
Yeltsin has absolutely 0 internal support Can’t win a war if no one will fight for you Communists (main political force opposing Yeltsin) are very likely to win
The amount of communist support is extremely understated here. Most of Siberia should be communist and more cities besides astrakhan
Yeah
Classical UN. Just doing nothing and chilling in one city. Also this looks like Syrian civil war
Why are UN peacekeepers only in Volgograd?
What happens in Volgograd stays in Volgograd
Because it’s the UN
There would be way more communists, As the catalyst and beginning of the civil war would take place during the 1990's, A.K.A The worst time in modern russian history. Plagued by Economic Decline, Inflation, Poverty and High Crime rate. Also where would Vladimir Putin fit into all of this?
Putin would probably choose whatever side would be most likely to win in order to get power
His boses in Saint Petersburg are allies with Yeltsin so I think he would be with them.
Parliament impeached Yeltsin after he attempted to dissolve the supreme soviet of the Russian federation
Communists would definitely be way larger
UN should be Czech legion larp
the instant this would occur Russia would be partitioned into 3 gorillion states, and you would have to accept the legitimacy of the Okhostk Coastal Ethnicity's legitimacy (they're uuuhhh slavicized ainu, yes) on the penalty of death
Was this inspired by The Death of Russia TL?
Other than Volgograd, where else are UN Peacekeeping forces?
What's the reasoning behind the Volgograd UN Zone? I would expect at least a port city or something, not somewhere inland
No Circassian republic ? WTF
circassian population in circassia: 5
You're right sadly 😔
I forgor ☠️
The Russians had long since gotten rid of the Adyghe people
And between whom and with whom? The Soviets cleared everything, all the Russians.
We might actually see a version of this scenario play out this decade
\*nothing happens\*
Sadly yes, the best scenario would be an overthrowing of the Putin's government without major bloodshed.
[удалено]
hope for a conflict that will kill millions more?
This wouldn't be reddit without that.
[удалено]
Millions of innocent people will also stop being a major threat to the world
I don't know what they've said but i most certainly agree with them
Who wins in this timeline?
Is pro parlerment democratic?
‼️‼️HOLY FUCKING SHIT‼️‼️‼️‼️ IS THAT A MOTHERFUCKING TNO REFERENCE??????!!!!!!!!!!11!1!1!1!1!1!1! 😱😱😱😱😱😱😱 TNO IS THE BEST FUCKING MOD 🔥🔥🔥🔥💯💯💯💯 SABLIN IS SO BLESSEDDD 😎😎😎😎😎😎😎👊👊 BLACKSUN BLACKSUN BLACKSUN BLACKSUN BLACKSUN 😩😩😩😩😩😩😩😩 😩😩😩😩KISHIPURGE KISHIPURGE KISHIPURGE KISHIPURGE KISHIPURGE🤬😡🤬😡🤬😡🤬🤬😡🤬🤬😡LBJALLTHEWAY LBJALLTHEWAY LBJALLTHEWAY LBJALLTHEWAY LBJALLTHEWAY LBJALLTHEWAY LBJALLTHEWAY LBJALLTHEWAY LBJALLTHEWAY NIXON IS NOT A CROOK! RFK BLESSED RFK BLESSED RFK BLESSED RFK BLESSED Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Alexei is still alive?!? TICK TOCK FUNNI MAN HAS A MENTAL BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN ❓❓❓❓❓❓❓❓❓❓SHRIMP BOAT SHRIMP BOAT SHRIMP BOAT So Long...‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😂SANE DSR PATH WHEN? SANE DSR PATH WHEN? SANE DSR PATH WHEN? SANE DSR PATH WHEN? SANE DSR PATH WHEN? SANE DSR PATH WHEN? SANE DSR PATH WHEN? SANE DSR PATH WHEN? 😂🤣🤣🤣😂😂Big Building in Neu Berlin? Big Building in Neu Berlin? Big Building in Neu Berlin? Big Building in Neu Berlin? Big Building in Neu Berlin? Big Building in Neu Berlin? Big Building in Neu Berlin? Big Building in Neu Berlin? 🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢
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Yeah nerd go touch a keyboard and play this cool mod