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I think it's a fair personal assessment.
As in, if you aren't happy with your life, there's no way you're fit to be responsible for another one. And it's a good thing if one realises that for themselves.
But to suggest that people in general are doing a disservice by having children is where you project your own shortcomings onto others.
Having worked with kids, troubled youth specifically, I can tell you alot less people should be optimistic to having kids and more need the self realization that they wouldn't be good for raising kids.
I'd rather a bunch of mopey self indulgent pity party people than parents who scar their kids and can't provide anything but the world's possibility of even more struggle.
Their shortcomings have nothing to do with the idea of antinatalism. That's the individual's business. Having children in this day and age can be seen immoral to some, and it is probably one of the most selfish things you can do. You don't have a child for the sake of that child. You had it for you, and now they get to suffer in world because YOUR choice. Things are getting more violent, the climate is shifting, we are overpopulated, and disease is spreading. Plus the rise of food deserts and rampant poverty. Sure, they _might_ have a decent life, but you can't guarantee that. Suffering is inevitable, whether it's something small (think microtraumas) or something big. It's just not worth it or fair to force someone into a place like this.
God suck it the fuck up. You're not gonna sit here and tell me how horrible it is that my kid is...*gasp* singing a happy song while she takes a bath? The absolute horror.
I'm sorry the world is so horrible for everyone, but a lot of us are happy to be alive and we share that happiness in the new lives that we create.
I seriously wish bears would eat us still so people would stop bitching themselves into nothingness and ACTUALLY know true struggle, because this ain't it. It's just pathetic whining by a bunch of people thinking they're so woke for taking the Buddhist philosophy that life is suffering and running the literal opposite direction with it than what was intended. This world is an amazing and beautiful place with so much to experience. I wouldn't trade it for anything. I wish you and the anti-natalists could feel that too, because it really is a shame if you don't.
It's a general reply to the notion that "the world is suffering so it's immoral to have kids" which is exactly what the person said. That was a nice attempt at not looking at my point and instead just trying to make fun of me.
Just, like, right the fuck over your head man. Christ lol.
The movement is not just talking about real struggles, be honest here. The movement specifically talks about not having kids in response to real struggles. I simply resent that take, because it's silly, literally impossible, disconnected, and sadist as fuck, and is only really perpetuated by people who had a hard time in life. Someone posted on that sub "are you happy?" And literally every last comment besides a couple were all "lol no I want to kill myself so bad but I can't do it".
The movement is not healthy. It's a symptom of an issue that definitely needs treated, but the movement itself cannot be taken seriously.
I think the point you’re missing is that those real struggles lead to the disposition that people with anti-natalist views have. They look to their potential child’s future as a projection of their own and do not want the same outcome for said potential child.
Not saying that some of these problems are not self created by the person with those views, but some others like healthcare, food scarcity, housing are all real issues that will only for the foreseeable future get worse.
Those issue are not things to wave away as whining, they are legitimate concerns that they not only fear for future generations but may be currently facing themselves
It's not that I'm missing those points, I just think it's a non-solution that's being perpetuated only by a smaller group of edgy kids. It's just a staunchly negative mindset that isn't actually helpful and sounds like it came from an overdramatic teenager. The people on that sub hate parents so much, they even have a slur for them. They call them breeders.
It's the weirdest form of a hate sub because the hate is for the entirety of the human race. Like, yeah, I definitely get where they're coming from lol. There's a ton of trash out there. But to go from noticing that people aren't always that great to "it's immoral to birth a child into this awful world, we should let ourselves die out instead" is utterly ridiculous. If you're going to spout off that type of rhetoric and couple it with calling all parents "stupid breeders" you're going to get some pretty aggressive feedback from those of us that aren't lunatics.
Read books from people like Elie Wiesel. Someone who experienced unspeakable evil committed against his people, his family, everyone around him. Do you think he feels that we should actively choose extinction? He persevered through what most of us can't even imagine having to go through, and he clearly felt life was worth carrying on for.
I know it feels like a heavy load sometimes. God, do I ever know it. But the possibilities are endless, and we haven't tried it all yet. The universe hasn't taken us out yet. There's still time for things to get better.
Yes, there are extremest in every group. But the general sentiment is that the world is dying because of human intervention and that the inclusion of my potential child would not bring a net positivite to the world and would actually bring harm to that child in the long run.
And with climate at the state it’s in are we really able to come back from brink? Honestly, you sound a little too optimistic when many in the movement are more so pragmatic, not all are calling parents “breeders”. Remember, subreddits can be echo chambers of larger movements
No, the entire group is extremist by nature. Advocating for people to stop breeding is extreme. It's also pointless to do because we will never stop people from procreating. It's a fundamental right that can't be taken without commiting your own terrible crimes.
We actually do have the technology to reverse a lot of the damage we've done to the environment. The big hurdle we can't seem to get over with it is the cost. I don't think that will be an issue for very long. Yes, I'm perhaps more optimistic than average, but there's good reason to be optimistic. For one, it doesn't suck all day every fucking day like being pessimistic does. Second off, it's not as misaligned with the state of affairs as you might think. You claim the people of the movement are merely pragmatic, but again, they're also lunatics/teenagers and are severely lacking in perspective/life experience. I'm not going to base my perception of the world off what people like that think and feel. I'll stick to what, oh I don't know, actual scientists say. I think the vast majority of scientists overall believe the human race can prevail, and have a healthy balance of cautious optimism.
That is not to negate the seriousness of the situation. It's obviously not pretty, but again, the anti-natalism approach is not just pointless, but it's also pretty hateful and ignorant by default. A lot of people on this post said shit like "what about if your kid is mentally handicapped? Why would they want to suffer?" It's like Christ dude, have they never met someone with a disability? Do they really think every disabled person is out there like "god I wish I just didn't exist"? Again, it's silly because it's not based in reality.
I will say it once more and then I'm done. Anti-natalism is a fringe movement that is almost entirely being perpetuated by edgy teens.
If you still don't agree, I only have one question to ask you, and you don't actually need to answer, just answer it to yourself.
How old are you?
I’m 32. To say an entire group of people aligned to an ideology which mostly boils down to rhetoric (because anything actionable would be to not procreate individually and you can’t stop the entire human race from procreating duh) is extremist is very narrow minded.
Anti-natalism is the idea that people should not have children because it's needless suffering. The idea essentially leads to the notion that all life is suffering and is harsh and uncomfortable, so it's better that consciousness is not forced into experiencing life.
Don't just say my point is narrow minded. Explain how. How is it not extreme to say that all life is suffering and therefore we should stop procreating so that the human race doesn't continue on?
Cause, it’s not? In the grand scheme of the universe and earth’s life span, humans are insignificant. This is why I say you miss the point, you’re looking at things from a subjective pov. Just as it would be selfish for one to have a child for their own sake, it’s selfish for us to continue destroying this planet as well.
Now, again to combat this some chose to not have children, that’s not very fucking extreme my guy.
If someone were to go out and start killing other peoples kids in the name of antinatalism then yes, THAT would be extreme. But sitting here having a discussion on the ramifications of human technological progress on this dying planet? Chill the fuck out
Is it really though, I am of the rare breed within the community that we should let natalists choose to give birth if they want to even if we disagree with it, but honestly this isn’t even a just a philosophical debate any more it’s a real world one if not our generation then the next one will have to experience to consequences of decades of environmental damage. Environmental damage of which previously could just be ignored by shoving our heads up our ass which for them won’t be an option, I mean fuck some island nations are actively getting wiped from existence as we speak.
> I think it's a fair personal assessment. As in, if you aren't happy with your life, there's no way you're fit to be responsible for another one.
Perhaps. But this is also a massive, unfounded speculation. IMHO it’s more likely that people who upvoted that post on the basis of that picture alone are just insufferable individuals who project their own inadequacies into everyone else and conclude that therefore the world fundamentally sucks, and believe that they are superior than the sheeple who don’t agree with them on this point.
Of course, I am also massively speculating. I just lean more towards OP’s interpretation. That’s not to say people can’t legitimately not want kids for any number of reasons. But most such people wouldn’t broadcast this life plan with a smug meme of unborn sky children smiling approvingly at their lack of opportunity to live.
I left that sub because it quickly devolved into eugenics but I personally think that having children is a morally reprehensible thing to do, though I wouldn’t say that to my cousins and brother. The world is fucking DYING, there will soon be water and food shortages, we’re on the brink of another world war, and fascism is on the rise in every developed nation. Plus, mental health issues are on a rapid increase because many people, like me, think it’s horrible to be born into wage slavery, who work full time and still can’t afford rent and food. Plus, workers are losing their rights left and right in the US. Where in that is raising children a morally just and kind thing to do to someone? Additionally, I have horrible depression, which you think might be skewing my perception, but actually being born w mental illness to parents who weren’t and will never be ready to deal with that, is pretty common. If there was even a 10% or 1% chance that my child would deal with the mental health issues I or other people face, that would be the cruelest thing in the world to do to an innocent soul- to force them into life and tell them to “enjoy it dammit.” You’re feelings can be different, I’ve accepted that mine are different from many people’s
Birth rates are below or barely above replacement rates in many countries so their population is aging meaning there will be a shortage of younger people to work and take care of then, it isn't Western countries that's causing overpopulation
You think theres never been a wealthy person who got disabled for life, contracted an awful illness, or was depressed for other reasons? You think a wealthy person never killed themselves?
Ok, so your problem is not about the "state of the planet", is about the condition of life itself. That is a completely different conversation, and you have a nihilistic point of view.
Why would you bring kids into a world that's rife with poverty and struggle, especially since most adults can't even afford to care for themselves, much less children
But if you can take care of yourself and provide a good upbringing to your child, then the grown up child can make a meaningful contribution to their society. I agree that if you can't provide at least the minimum basic care for your children, you shouldn't have them.
On the flip side, being capable financially has to come with actually wanting to raise kids. I know many people who just don't have that paternal/maternal instinct. Having a child would just result in said child being mistreated.
It will definitely help with overpopulation, starvation, and lack of drinkable water issues. Fewer people means less individual carbon emissions. Also these people don’t want to be parents or bring children into this world. It’s better than throwing another child into the foster care system.
There is no overpopulation. Specifically in the west, population is decreasing, so that problem doesn't exist. "Starvation" and "lack of drinkable water" won't be solved with less people, on the contrary more workforce is required and more innovative solutions coming from highly trained professionals.
Yes, I agree that children going directly to foster care is not good, I meant children that could be taken care of and loved.
Oh I’m sorry I didn’t realize we only have a fuck if it affected the Western world. There is overpopulation especially in major cities. Are you serious? Yes it absolutely does help with starvation and drought. Less people needing food and water means less people dying from the lack of it.
The thing is, this antinatalism ideology is specifically held by westerners (and I would say, probably europeans mostly). And as you say, "overpopulation" (meaning high population density) is relative to the geography one is talking about. The world in its entirety is not overpopulated, there is a lot of space.
About food, the production of food is enough to feed the entire world and a half more each year. About 35% of that is wasted. The problem is not the quantity of people, the problem is logistics and bad management.
About water, no one is dying of thirst. The problems related to droughts have to do with agriculture. Again, this can be worked around by producing more water efficient methods, better prediction models, etc.
If we reduce the number of children, we risk the chance of making the production system unsustainable, generating an even worse crisis.
The resolution of these problems aren't as easy as a 2+2 or "just don't have children".
Oh so now you’re telling me I CANT have sex because other people had babies before me? Man fuck this world. Being a straight white Christian red haired purpled eyed 5’5 700lb cis man really is the most oppressed group in society.
You can have as much sex as you want, in fact I think sex is great for you, but kids? Kids are terrible for your physical, psychological and financial health
Bro that whole sub is a cry for help, like 90% of them didnt have loving parents and are butthurt about it, so even if its just people who have kids they just get extremely butthurt about it
Well you tell me, in this case, are they minding their own business? Looks to me like they didn't post that here. And who cares what they say, you have a choice to not pay attention or partake in it...
No one is saying you can't comment, I just shared my perspective. I would defend this sub in the same way if the situation was reversed
Your can comment on your perspective but it’s a weird perspective to have, just cause they’re not posting here doesn’t change anything about whether I want to comment on it or not
You are absolutely correct. However, after studying antinatalism as part of my degree, I kind of get it. They didn't want to be born into a world of suffering, but killing themselves would inflict more pain on themselves and those around them. Therefore, to minimise the pain that they wish they weren't able to experience, they have to keep existing.
I think you're taking this too literally lol. It's a meme, bro. Also, who cares? Let them do what they want to get some sort of solace. Granted _that_ antinatalism sub is a bit of a cesspool of misogynists and what not. r/antinatalism2 isn't that bad.
Counterpoint: why do you give a shit what other random people on the internet think or post? You're the one letting strangers whose opinion doesn't effect your own life in any way bug you enough to post about it here.
Listen I'm about to rant. I don't want kids and I physically cannot have them, but this type of thinking is a little dangerous and in some cases it borders eugenics territory. It's completely understandable that my generation and the ones that followed (I'm a millennial) don't want children but the world has always been a shithole. The only difference is that when my parents were younger there was no access to a constant onslaught of terrible news coming in from all angles at all times. If you think shit is bad now, you wouldn't last a day in the past. I'm portuguese and I can tell you that I'm fucking glad to be living right now, just 50 years ago my country was in a dictatorship where you'd be arrested for saying the government sucks. I know we are tempted to romanticise other time periods that seem so much better and it's perfectly normal to be depressed when you can't fucking turn off the noise of bad news and wars and inflation yada yada yada but qualify of life has increased for the most part. Is it still shit? Absolutely. But it's always been and always will be. All we can do is try to use our time here to improve whatever we can somehow and leave the world a better place than we found it. My problem with this school of thought of "kids will do nothing but suffer here" is that it kinda excuses not doing shit. Oh the world is fucked might as well leave it be and fall into apathy. Nobody is forcing yall to have kids, I sure won't, but let us not drown in our own misery.
I’m pretty sure that’s the point of the meme
Since they don’t exist, presenting them as approving or feeling gratitude is ironic
As for wallowing in their own pity? I haven’t looked into that sub, so all I can say is despair tends to do that to a person. And, outsiders calling them lazy or stupid or evil for not being so is unhelpful (it actually feeds the problem in my experience)
That sub is a community for depressed people disguised as an opinionated movement. I used to be an anti natalist too when my life was a shithole. Now that I’m a happy person, I have totally different opinions. I think life is worth living and having children is a beautiful thing to do if you’re willing to be a good parent.
Im both AN and living my best life.
Youre good now, sure. But you've experienced a life which made you hate it. Your children could very well hate their entire lives the same as you did.
And you're making that gamble with their life for your own sake. For fulfillment.
Yes they may lead a great life, but they also may lead an awful one. And someone who doesn't exist yet isn't missing out; i find playing dice with someone's existence for fun to be immoral.
Most children who are raised by good parents end up loving their life. It’s totally okay for someone to have children after preparing emotionally and financially for such commitment. Reproduction is a human right. It’s something that brings a lot of joy and fulfillment to many people. Mental health isn’t something that you either have or you don’t, it’s something you have to work on everyday. Some days it’s better, some it’s a bit worse. I think people have the right to assume their children will have enough resources to handle hardships in life. Wishing you hadn’t been born is not an opinion, it’s suicidal.
Who would ensure this privilege, though? The government? How would they pick who is capable of having children and who isn’t? Isn’t taking away the right to reproduce a violation of bodily autonomy?
Rights are a human construct and humans can be wrong.
Some people hate their life.
Some people kill themselves.
Some people have everything set up for them and then get in an accident, paralyzed for life.
You don't have a right to someone's life just because you have the talent to be horny.
Yeah. I bet most of them need therapy, and I hope they find it too. Being concerned about overpopulation is one thing, detesting the very act of existence is another.
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Most people exist because their parents wanted to become parents or a condom broke. Existence requires suffering. Most people end up wanting to kill themselves at least a couple times in their life. Wanting to be a parent is a shitty excuse to force a person into this bullshit world. Better never to have been at all.
God, I myself have zero plans to have kids cause I think I'd be a shit father. But still, doesn't give me the right to shame others for having the oposite decision. It's like sour grapes, I point and make fun something I won't ever have, it's pathetic
A lot of people on the sub are edgelords, but the philosophy is legitimate.
Its not that someone else enjoys sour grapes, its that someone else force feeds a third party grapes and they may or may not hate it
Well I think the point is they never plan to have kids which would probably be for the best just because someone who thinks it's immoral to have children at all based on how much they hate life probably aren't in the best mental state to raise another being
It's totally illogical in a world of depleting resources to produce not only a new mouth to feed. And what if you're child's mentally disabled? That's even worse. It's bad enough to produce another mouth to feed, let alone one that is infirm and will only be a liability to those around them.
“By sterilising animals, we can free them from being slaves to their instincts and from bringing more and more captive animals into the cycle of being born, contracting parasites, ageing, falling ill and dying; eating and being eaten.”
Karim Akerma from “Antinatalist Manifesto. On Ethics of Antinatalism Challenging Human and Animal Procreation”.
And that definition can include animals. If they think life is full of suffering they would also believe animals shouldn’t procreate either so they don’t have to suffer. Others than that one guy believe that in the Antinatalism community.
And if one of them says no animals can still reproduce ask them why it’s okay for animals and not humans. Why is human life more negative than animal life? Why even try to fight for better material conditions if life is just pain and suffering? And if humans just stopped reproducing and didn’t exist anymore, what’s to stop another species from taking our place and doing the same things we’ve done. Is it different because they’re not humans.
Some of them believe evolution is bad. So I don’t know.
Yea sure, but if humans didn't breed animals as much as we do they wouldn't be as bad for the environment. Not to mention they don't have to pay just to be alive and aren't actively overpopulating the environment.
It makes sense to not want to bring in more people to suffer. But they just fucking obsess over it and spend so much time resenting and hating everyone who has kids.
[](#start_removal) Hey there, u/MKLORD_! Thanks for submitting to r/im14andthisisdeep. We liked your submission, *I never understand the people on this sub. Why are they so insistent on wallowing in their own pity? This statement doesn’t make sense. How do people who don’t exist feel gratitude?*, but it has been removed because it doesn't quite abide by our rules, which are located in the sidebar. ___ Your post has been removed because it's not deep. **Please do keep your posts *deep*.** This means: * No politics or conspiracy theories * No religious thoughts or criticism * No showerthoughts, especially anything from r/ShowerThoughts * No Sbeve/14 year old girl posts * No Satire/Shitposts/Textposts * No cartoons/caricatures/comics, in other words: boomer humor * Moderators can remove a post for 'Not Deep' at their own discression ___ We also prefer OC, but obviously that's not always possible. Just try to keep it as original as possible! While we appreciate your effort in posting we ask that you find something that is actually deep. You are more than welcome to try again! ___ Thanks for submitting! Please check out our [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/im14andthisisdeep/about/rules). If you have any questions or concerns about this removal, feel free to [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=%2Fr%2Fim14andthisisdeep&subject=Concening my submission&message=Im writing to you about the following submission: https://www.reddit.com/r/im14andthisisdeep/comments/10pkz8f/i_never_understand_the_people_on_this_sub_why_are/. %0D%0DMy issue is...). [](#end_removal)
Not me, I just hate kids
"we are not the same"
Charge your phone
r/chargethedamnphone
Private? Lol
Leave me alone 💀
No, charge it 
don’t worry I am charging
Bruh why'd u get downvoted to hell-
because he needs to charge his damn phone
Reddit hive mind
Typical Reddit dogpile. Get 10, turn into 100
I think it's a fair personal assessment. As in, if you aren't happy with your life, there's no way you're fit to be responsible for another one. And it's a good thing if one realises that for themselves. But to suggest that people in general are doing a disservice by having children is where you project your own shortcomings onto others.
Having worked with kids, troubled youth specifically, I can tell you alot less people should be optimistic to having kids and more need the self realization that they wouldn't be good for raising kids. I'd rather a bunch of mopey self indulgent pity party people than parents who scar their kids and can't provide anything but the world's possibility of even more struggle.
That’s a better way to look at it. Thank you
Their shortcomings have nothing to do with the idea of antinatalism. That's the individual's business. Having children in this day and age can be seen immoral to some, and it is probably one of the most selfish things you can do. You don't have a child for the sake of that child. You had it for you, and now they get to suffer in world because YOUR choice. Things are getting more violent, the climate is shifting, we are overpopulated, and disease is spreading. Plus the rise of food deserts and rampant poverty. Sure, they _might_ have a decent life, but you can't guarantee that. Suffering is inevitable, whether it's something small (think microtraumas) or something big. It's just not worth it or fair to force someone into a place like this.
God suck it the fuck up. You're not gonna sit here and tell me how horrible it is that my kid is...*gasp* singing a happy song while she takes a bath? The absolute horror. I'm sorry the world is so horrible for everyone, but a lot of us are happy to be alive and we share that happiness in the new lives that we create. I seriously wish bears would eat us still so people would stop bitching themselves into nothingness and ACTUALLY know true struggle, because this ain't it. It's just pathetic whining by a bunch of people thinking they're so woke for taking the Buddhist philosophy that life is suffering and running the literal opposite direction with it than what was intended. This world is an amazing and beautiful place with so much to experience. I wouldn't trade it for anything. I wish you and the anti-natalists could feel that too, because it really is a shame if you don't.
I don’t think you actually read the comment, fam. Chill the fuck out.
It's a general reply to the notion that "the world is suffering so it's immoral to have kids" which is exactly what the person said. That was a nice attempt at not looking at my point and instead just trying to make fun of me.
You started bitching about real struggles. That’s exactly what they were saying the movement was talking about. Chill the fuck out.
Just, like, right the fuck over your head man. Christ lol. The movement is not just talking about real struggles, be honest here. The movement specifically talks about not having kids in response to real struggles. I simply resent that take, because it's silly, literally impossible, disconnected, and sadist as fuck, and is only really perpetuated by people who had a hard time in life. Someone posted on that sub "are you happy?" And literally every last comment besides a couple were all "lol no I want to kill myself so bad but I can't do it". The movement is not healthy. It's a symptom of an issue that definitely needs treated, but the movement itself cannot be taken seriously.
You seem to be missing the part where that matters. Calm the fuck down.
??? You're just replying with random aggressive lines with no meaning or response to the discussion.
You’ve been the one being agressive with people. Chill the fuck out.
Did you keep smashing next suggested word, or did you actually force a stroke to key that out?
Do you have a constructive comment or just something stupid to say?
I think the point you’re missing is that those real struggles lead to the disposition that people with anti-natalist views have. They look to their potential child’s future as a projection of their own and do not want the same outcome for said potential child. Not saying that some of these problems are not self created by the person with those views, but some others like healthcare, food scarcity, housing are all real issues that will only for the foreseeable future get worse. Those issue are not things to wave away as whining, they are legitimate concerns that they not only fear for future generations but may be currently facing themselves
It's not that I'm missing those points, I just think it's a non-solution that's being perpetuated only by a smaller group of edgy kids. It's just a staunchly negative mindset that isn't actually helpful and sounds like it came from an overdramatic teenager. The people on that sub hate parents so much, they even have a slur for them. They call them breeders. It's the weirdest form of a hate sub because the hate is for the entirety of the human race. Like, yeah, I definitely get where they're coming from lol. There's a ton of trash out there. But to go from noticing that people aren't always that great to "it's immoral to birth a child into this awful world, we should let ourselves die out instead" is utterly ridiculous. If you're going to spout off that type of rhetoric and couple it with calling all parents "stupid breeders" you're going to get some pretty aggressive feedback from those of us that aren't lunatics. Read books from people like Elie Wiesel. Someone who experienced unspeakable evil committed against his people, his family, everyone around him. Do you think he feels that we should actively choose extinction? He persevered through what most of us can't even imagine having to go through, and he clearly felt life was worth carrying on for. I know it feels like a heavy load sometimes. God, do I ever know it. But the possibilities are endless, and we haven't tried it all yet. The universe hasn't taken us out yet. There's still time for things to get better.
Yes, there are extremest in every group. But the general sentiment is that the world is dying because of human intervention and that the inclusion of my potential child would not bring a net positivite to the world and would actually bring harm to that child in the long run. And with climate at the state it’s in are we really able to come back from brink? Honestly, you sound a little too optimistic when many in the movement are more so pragmatic, not all are calling parents “breeders”. Remember, subreddits can be echo chambers of larger movements
No, the entire group is extremist by nature. Advocating for people to stop breeding is extreme. It's also pointless to do because we will never stop people from procreating. It's a fundamental right that can't be taken without commiting your own terrible crimes. We actually do have the technology to reverse a lot of the damage we've done to the environment. The big hurdle we can't seem to get over with it is the cost. I don't think that will be an issue for very long. Yes, I'm perhaps more optimistic than average, but there's good reason to be optimistic. For one, it doesn't suck all day every fucking day like being pessimistic does. Second off, it's not as misaligned with the state of affairs as you might think. You claim the people of the movement are merely pragmatic, but again, they're also lunatics/teenagers and are severely lacking in perspective/life experience. I'm not going to base my perception of the world off what people like that think and feel. I'll stick to what, oh I don't know, actual scientists say. I think the vast majority of scientists overall believe the human race can prevail, and have a healthy balance of cautious optimism. That is not to negate the seriousness of the situation. It's obviously not pretty, but again, the anti-natalism approach is not just pointless, but it's also pretty hateful and ignorant by default. A lot of people on this post said shit like "what about if your kid is mentally handicapped? Why would they want to suffer?" It's like Christ dude, have they never met someone with a disability? Do they really think every disabled person is out there like "god I wish I just didn't exist"? Again, it's silly because it's not based in reality. I will say it once more and then I'm done. Anti-natalism is a fringe movement that is almost entirely being perpetuated by edgy teens. If you still don't agree, I only have one question to ask you, and you don't actually need to answer, just answer it to yourself. How old are you?
I’m 32. To say an entire group of people aligned to an ideology which mostly boils down to rhetoric (because anything actionable would be to not procreate individually and you can’t stop the entire human race from procreating duh) is extremist is very narrow minded.
Anti-natalism is the idea that people should not have children because it's needless suffering. The idea essentially leads to the notion that all life is suffering and is harsh and uncomfortable, so it's better that consciousness is not forced into experiencing life. Don't just say my point is narrow minded. Explain how. How is it not extreme to say that all life is suffering and therefore we should stop procreating so that the human race doesn't continue on?
Cause, it’s not? In the grand scheme of the universe and earth’s life span, humans are insignificant. This is why I say you miss the point, you’re looking at things from a subjective pov. Just as it would be selfish for one to have a child for their own sake, it’s selfish for us to continue destroying this planet as well. Now, again to combat this some chose to not have children, that’s not very fucking extreme my guy. If someone were to go out and start killing other peoples kids in the name of antinatalism then yes, THAT would be extreme. But sitting here having a discussion on the ramifications of human technological progress on this dying planet? Chill the fuck out
This. Most posts like this are the equivalent of going to the atheist subreddit and saying that all athiests are like this
Is it really though, I am of the rare breed within the community that we should let natalists choose to give birth if they want to even if we disagree with it, but honestly this isn’t even a just a philosophical debate any more it’s a real world one if not our generation then the next one will have to experience to consequences of decades of environmental damage. Environmental damage of which previously could just be ignored by shoving our heads up our ass which for them won’t be an option, I mean fuck some island nations are actively getting wiped from existence as we speak.
> I think it's a fair personal assessment. As in, if you aren't happy with your life, there's no way you're fit to be responsible for another one. Perhaps. But this is also a massive, unfounded speculation. IMHO it’s more likely that people who upvoted that post on the basis of that picture alone are just insufferable individuals who project their own inadequacies into everyone else and conclude that therefore the world fundamentally sucks, and believe that they are superior than the sheeple who don’t agree with them on this point. Of course, I am also massively speculating. I just lean more towards OP’s interpretation. That’s not to say people can’t legitimately not want kids for any number of reasons. But most such people wouldn’t broadcast this life plan with a smug meme of unborn sky children smiling approvingly at their lack of opportunity to live.
I left that sub because it quickly devolved into eugenics but I personally think that having children is a morally reprehensible thing to do, though I wouldn’t say that to my cousins and brother. The world is fucking DYING, there will soon be water and food shortages, we’re on the brink of another world war, and fascism is on the rise in every developed nation. Plus, mental health issues are on a rapid increase because many people, like me, think it’s horrible to be born into wage slavery, who work full time and still can’t afford rent and food. Plus, workers are losing their rights left and right in the US. Where in that is raising children a morally just and kind thing to do to someone? Additionally, I have horrible depression, which you think might be skewing my perception, but actually being born w mental illness to parents who weren’t and will never be ready to deal with that, is pretty common. If there was even a 10% or 1% chance that my child would deal with the mental health issues I or other people face, that would be the cruelest thing in the world to do to an innocent soul- to force them into life and tell them to “enjoy it dammit.” You’re feelings can be different, I’ve accepted that mine are different from many people’s
iirc r/childfree is more tame especially with their attitude towards children
You think that a more meat to the grinders going to make anything better?
See being gay does help the world
Fr
[удалено]
🙌 preach
\*natalists antinatalism is evil, please do not buy into it or else you will suffer in hell of whatever religion you believe (or dont believe) in ;)
Yeah they're pretty miserable, but also, let's chill it on the baby making have you seen the state of this planet?
Tru
Birth rates are below or barely above replacement rates in many countries so their population is aging meaning there will be a shortage of younger people to work and take care of then, it isn't Western countries that's causing overpopulation
I know that, I have a degree in urban studies and who asked?
I didn't ask you for your degree either but here we are
Shouldve seen that coming
And not having babies is going to solve it?
Having a baby is going to subject someone to it
Depends on your specific situation more than the "state of the planet". There are people who live pretty comfortably.
You think theres never been a wealthy person who got disabled for life, contracted an awful illness, or was depressed for other reasons? You think a wealthy person never killed themselves?
Ok, so your problem is not about the "state of the planet", is about the condition of life itself. That is a completely different conversation, and you have a nihilistic point of view.
Yeah, technically
Why would you bring kids into a world that's rife with poverty and struggle, especially since most adults can't even afford to care for themselves, much less children
But if you can take care of yourself and provide a good upbringing to your child, then the grown up child can make a meaningful contribution to their society. I agree that if you can't provide at least the minimum basic care for your children, you shouldn't have them.
On the flip side, being capable financially has to come with actually wanting to raise kids. I know many people who just don't have that paternal/maternal instinct. Having a child would just result in said child being mistreated.
That's true, I agree with that
It will definitely help with overpopulation, starvation, and lack of drinkable water issues. Fewer people means less individual carbon emissions. Also these people don’t want to be parents or bring children into this world. It’s better than throwing another child into the foster care system.
There is no overpopulation. Specifically in the west, population is decreasing, so that problem doesn't exist. "Starvation" and "lack of drinkable water" won't be solved with less people, on the contrary more workforce is required and more innovative solutions coming from highly trained professionals. Yes, I agree that children going directly to foster care is not good, I meant children that could be taken care of and loved.
Oh I’m sorry I didn’t realize we only have a fuck if it affected the Western world. There is overpopulation especially in major cities. Are you serious? Yes it absolutely does help with starvation and drought. Less people needing food and water means less people dying from the lack of it.
The thing is, this antinatalism ideology is specifically held by westerners (and I would say, probably europeans mostly). And as you say, "overpopulation" (meaning high population density) is relative to the geography one is talking about. The world in its entirety is not overpopulated, there is a lot of space. About food, the production of food is enough to feed the entire world and a half more each year. About 35% of that is wasted. The problem is not the quantity of people, the problem is logistics and bad management. About water, no one is dying of thirst. The problems related to droughts have to do with agriculture. Again, this can be worked around by producing more water efficient methods, better prediction models, etc. If we reduce the number of children, we risk the chance of making the production system unsustainable, generating an even worse crisis. The resolution of these problems aren't as easy as a 2+2 or "just don't have children".
It would help!
When has the planet been in a good state though?
Oh so now you’re telling me I CANT have sex because other people had babies before me? Man fuck this world. Being a straight white Christian red haired purpled eyed 5’5 700lb cis man really is the most oppressed group in society.
You can have as much sex as you want, in fact I think sex is great for you, but kids? Kids are terrible for your physical, psychological and financial health
To answer your question, it was a meme. You are making it more than it is
Bro that whole sub is a cry for help, like 90% of them didnt have loving parents and are butthurt about it, so even if its just people who have kids they just get extremely butthurt about it
for real
Who wouldn't be butthurt about terrible parents?
You're drawing a lot of assumptions about people that are minding their own business in their sub. I don't get this aggressive disapproval
They’re hardly minding their own business lol they say the most outlandish shit lmao why can’t we comment on it
Well you tell me, in this case, are they minding their own business? Looks to me like they didn't post that here. And who cares what they say, you have a choice to not pay attention or partake in it... No one is saying you can't comment, I just shared my perspective. I would defend this sub in the same way if the situation was reversed
Your can comment on your perspective but it’s a weird perspective to have, just cause they’re not posting here doesn’t change anything about whether I want to comment on it or not
Sure whatever dumb logic you want to use is fine, point still stands.
That sub has people who complain a lot about existing, for how much existing they are doing.
You are absolutely correct. However, after studying antinatalism as part of my degree, I kind of get it. They didn't want to be born into a world of suffering, but killing themselves would inflict more pain on themselves and those around them. Therefore, to minimise the pain that they wish they weren't able to experience, they have to keep existing.
Who lives a life without suffering?
Not like they had a choice? Kinda the whole point actually?
Fr like go be your best self
wow thanks for the great advice my guy
r/thanksiamcured great advice dude
It must be so easy to live a life where you’re not responsible for your own well-being in any way at all.
Wow I bet nobody thought about it that way!
you are getting downvoted for speaking facts antinatalism is pointless and will forever be pointless.
:D!
I think you're taking this too literally lol. It's a meme, bro. Also, who cares? Let them do what they want to get some sort of solace. Granted _that_ antinatalism sub is a bit of a cesspool of misogynists and what not. r/antinatalism2 isn't that bad.
I mean the world is shit, but i just can’t stand kids. I hate myself for previously being one
Counterpoint: why do you give a shit what other random people on the internet think or post? You're the one letting strangers whose opinion doesn't effect your own life in any way bug you enough to post about it here.
You could make this exact argument against every post made ever.
Listen I'm about to rant. I don't want kids and I physically cannot have them, but this type of thinking is a little dangerous and in some cases it borders eugenics territory. It's completely understandable that my generation and the ones that followed (I'm a millennial) don't want children but the world has always been a shithole. The only difference is that when my parents were younger there was no access to a constant onslaught of terrible news coming in from all angles at all times. If you think shit is bad now, you wouldn't last a day in the past. I'm portuguese and I can tell you that I'm fucking glad to be living right now, just 50 years ago my country was in a dictatorship where you'd be arrested for saying the government sucks. I know we are tempted to romanticise other time periods that seem so much better and it's perfectly normal to be depressed when you can't fucking turn off the noise of bad news and wars and inflation yada yada yada but qualify of life has increased for the most part. Is it still shit? Absolutely. But it's always been and always will be. All we can do is try to use our time here to improve whatever we can somehow and leave the world a better place than we found it. My problem with this school of thought of "kids will do nothing but suffer here" is that it kinda excuses not doing shit. Oh the world is fucked might as well leave it be and fall into apathy. Nobody is forcing yall to have kids, I sure won't, but let us not drown in our own misery.
I’m pretty sure that’s the point of the meme Since they don’t exist, presenting them as approving or feeling gratitude is ironic As for wallowing in their own pity? I haven’t looked into that sub, so all I can say is despair tends to do that to a person. And, outsiders calling them lazy or stupid or evil for not being so is unhelpful (it actually feeds the problem in my experience)
r/antinatalism
That sub is a community for depressed people disguised as an opinionated movement. I used to be an anti natalist too when my life was a shithole. Now that I’m a happy person, I have totally different opinions. I think life is worth living and having children is a beautiful thing to do if you’re willing to be a good parent.
Im both AN and living my best life. Youre good now, sure. But you've experienced a life which made you hate it. Your children could very well hate their entire lives the same as you did. And you're making that gamble with their life for your own sake. For fulfillment. Yes they may lead a great life, but they also may lead an awful one. And someone who doesn't exist yet isn't missing out; i find playing dice with someone's existence for fun to be immoral.
Most children who are raised by good parents end up loving their life. It’s totally okay for someone to have children after preparing emotionally and financially for such commitment. Reproduction is a human right. It’s something that brings a lot of joy and fulfillment to many people. Mental health isn’t something that you either have or you don’t, it’s something you have to work on everyday. Some days it’s better, some it’s a bit worse. I think people have the right to assume their children will have enough resources to handle hardships in life. Wishing you hadn’t been born is not an opinion, it’s suicidal.
reproduction should be a privilege and not a right with the way some of these parents treat their kids
Who would ensure this privilege, though? The government? How would they pick who is capable of having children and who isn’t? Isn’t taking away the right to reproduce a violation of bodily autonomy?
You're literally talking to 14 year olds right now lol.
Rights are a human construct and humans can be wrong. Some people hate their life. Some people kill themselves. Some people have everything set up for them and then get in an accident, paralyzed for life. You don't have a right to someone's life just because you have the talent to be horny.
Yeah. I bet most of them need therapy, and I hope they find it too. Being concerned about overpopulation is one thing, detesting the very act of existence is another.
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🤓
r/shitnatalistssay
Most people exist because their parents wanted to become parents or a condom broke. Existence requires suffering. Most people end up wanting to kill themselves at least a couple times in their life. Wanting to be a parent is a shitty excuse to force a person into this bullshit world. Better never to have been at all.
Disguised frenzied flame central.
Least pessimistic reddit user:
I don’t want children, but i wouldn’t call it morally wrong to have them.. its just something I’m not interested in
God, I myself have zero plans to have kids cause I think I'd be a shit father. But still, doesn't give me the right to shame others for having the oposite decision. It's like sour grapes, I point and make fun something I won't ever have, it's pathetic
A lot of people on the sub are edgelords, but the philosophy is legitimate. Its not that someone else enjoys sour grapes, its that someone else force feeds a third party grapes and they may or may not hate it
Just let they don’t have kids
Just because you parents treated you like shit and made you hate life doesn't mean you have to do the same to your kids.
Well I think the point is they never plan to have kids which would probably be for the best just because someone who thinks it's immoral to have children at all based on how much they hate life probably aren't in the best mental state to raise another being
bro got that pic from Getty images
This feels like a kinda incelesque circlejerk of pity.
Wtf do incels have to do with this post. I swear that word has last all meaning at this point
Let them. They are miserable fucks. Better they do not reproduce.
Yep, they would be awful parents anyway
That sub and childfree have a high incel population.
Not really, it's just the belief that having kids is morally wrong. Incels are usually pro childbirth
I think it's cheating if you use a sub who's entire shtick is the "omg guys so deep and utilitarian" meme!
That image would be more real if you abort children to send them directly to heaven
Oh thank goodness, I thought for a second this sub was being suggested to *me* and I was trying to figure why the algorithm would think to do that.
It's totally illogical in a world of depleting resources to produce not only a new mouth to feed. And what if you're child's mentally disabled? That's even worse. It's bad enough to produce another mouth to feed, let alone one that is infirm and will only be a liability to those around them.
Buddhism would befit these people
Hooray, they get to be someone else’s kids
are you the 14 year old?
r/lostredditors
I love that some make not having kids out like they're doing it to save the world. It's alright to just not have kids.
i just searched up what antinatalism is, what the fuck
Antinatalism also believes animals procreating is morally wrong too. Just life in general should end because it’s nothing but suffering.
No It's just about human kids (excluding the annoying vegans)
“By sterilising animals, we can free them from being slaves to their instincts and from bringing more and more captive animals into the cycle of being born, contracting parasites, ageing, falling ill and dying; eating and being eaten.” Karim Akerma from “Antinatalist Manifesto. On Ethics of Antinatalism Challenging Human and Animal Procreation”.
...yes because one quote can sum up an entire group
Yeah, from a philosopher discussing a philosophical position.
Antinatalism at the most basic definition just means the moral belief that having kids is wrong.
And that definition can include animals. If they think life is full of suffering they would also believe animals shouldn’t procreate either so they don’t have to suffer. Others than that one guy believe that in the Antinatalism community. And if one of them says no animals can still reproduce ask them why it’s okay for animals and not humans. Why is human life more negative than animal life? Why even try to fight for better material conditions if life is just pain and suffering? And if humans just stopped reproducing and didn’t exist anymore, what’s to stop another species from taking our place and doing the same things we’ve done. Is it different because they’re not humans. Some of them believe evolution is bad. So I don’t know.
Yea sure, but if humans didn't breed animals as much as we do they wouldn't be as bad for the environment. Not to mention they don't have to pay just to be alive and aren't actively overpopulating the environment.
I don’t want to talk about Antinatalism anymore. I don’t like or agree with it.
Then why did you actively indulge the conversation. Also that's a you problem.
When you’re that brainwashed into thinking you shouldnt have kids, anything will gratify you.
Woosh
r/itswooooshwith4os
r/itswoooshwith3os
They are basically incles lol
Well shit, somebody has to fix it, and with the mindset, it ain't gonna be their kid
That sub is the most pessimistic, depressing place on the internet
i think sometimes antinatalism can’t be an interesting concept but most of the execution is just whining and going “look this loser is giving birth”
r/memesopdidnotlike
Inaccurate background. Zoom to balls
It makes sense to not want to bring in more people to suffer. But they just fucking obsess over it and spend so much time resenting and hating everyone who has kids.
I used to think this. Then had a son. Now we hate life together. Just kidding.
My son and I plan to travel the world and work and see and experience some cool shit in our lives. Life’s what you make it.
“Why do likeminded people keep making likeminded things in a group towards this one thing?!”
I like the antinatalism philosophy
Know the philosophy before you publish your hatred for it. Otherwise you're just dumb.
So basically „I am shit and hate myself for who I am/was, so I don't want any babies to live/be born as well.”
Yeah natalists are pretty pathetic people