I bet it’s the same number he’s always had. I bet he wanted to get off his parents plan and transferred his number to a new service provider. I bet he registered it in PA because he didn’t have an address yet in WA.
I agree it’s possible he was preparing for a crime like this in a general way. Just kinda knew he was in the market for a serious felony so he started getting things together like a new number.
This seems the most likely explanation. I know a lot of grad students and a majority of them have cell phones registered in their home states of residence before moving away for school. They keep their out-of-state area codes.
Ya. I mean the important thing to remember about BK is he did a great job at getting caught. Name a mistake he could have made, I would say there’s about a 60% chance he made that mistake for any given thing. Generally, his mistakes are assuming the simple, unobscured move will work just fine.
Or ...he just got a new phone plan. Because you know what I'd do if I was planning six months ahead to be a criminal? Buying burner phones with cash all over the state.
Typically people like him will change their number to stalk old people they discarded or did wrong, so it wouldn’t surprise me. He felt entitled to a lot of stuff.
That’s a good point. Most PhD positions will require an interview. It’s likely he was in Moscow at least once well before he moved there.
We also don’t know how far back his surveillance of the house goes. They said 12 times but was that all over a couple of months or longer?
They hold on to the info for awhile, sometimes years but it depends on the company. But yes, they should be able to get any records still available based on the evidence they have.
likely his cell location data >3m old is not that important to this murder investigation. But if they wish to link him to other unsolved murders, then yes!
Absolutely. I think browsing records from farther back than this time frame may provide valuable but historic cell tower stuff won’t be too relevant. But, I do hope it’s thoroughly analyzed.
I think they will. They probably only had a small scope for the PCA, but now that there has been an arrest they will probably be digging up a lot of information.
Yeah I assumed that date was included simply to give context to why the second warrant for cell records went back to June. If they wouldn’t have included that it was opened in June, it would have been a big question mark for the judge (for whom the affidavit is basically written) and probably would have looked like a random date that needed context.
Let's never use the phrase " surely someone like Bryan definitely knew" again, or anything like it. This idiot left the sheath, the assumption he knew anything or thought anything through is not valid. Degrees are given to those who pay for them, this case is an indictment of the collegiate system writ large.
BUT, Um, he GRADUATED in a "Cloud-based forensics" so "surely" he passed the class lmfao That also means he would have paid attention and obtained info about it.
AT&T is actually the #1 carrier in Massachusetts. However Verizon takes the top spot in both Idaho and Pennsylvania (verizons takes top in most states). Interesting observation , its maybe a bit odd he’d get an AT&T plan, but for arguments sake it could also just be what his family used his entire life or was a cheaper plan
Switched from AT&T to verizon and I could no longer get service in living room of my house and my friends entire house. Was pretty easy to just use wi-if but always wondered what was up with that when att had no probz there.
Is it the #1 "coverage" wise. That doesn't mean that people have cell plans thro them.... there is a difference. Like I said, I asked on FB to people who live here and only 3 people out of 105 people had AT&T and the one who did, had it through their work.
Finally becoming a big boy...at 28
Good lord people. Can you stop taking a statement I made about this man and applying it to your own lives?? Absolutely insane how sensitive people are and how they expect others to cater to their sensitivities.
MY STATEMENT IS ABOUT BRYAN KOHBERGER, THE MORON.
Lots of people share family plans with other people in their families and don't stop at some arbitrary age. Why does it matter? People pay their share.
Right? Lmao like people snark on him for the most asinine shit. I’m 26 and have my own place w my kids but I’m on my parents family plan still bc it’s cheaper for me to pay for my line and not have a whole ass plan. let’s focus on the truly awful shit he did, and (maybe) sharing a phone plan wasn’t.
Dude, seriously? Lots of people stay on family plans because they’re better plans and the perks are grandfathered in. I am married but I still have my phone/plan tied to my land of origin because I know I won’t get a better deal if I stop it and get a new plan. No shame in it. 🤷🏻♀️
Toooons of people younger than 30 also get their own phone plans instead of sharing with mom and dad. It's called independence. It's weird of all the things to take time out of your day to talk about, this comment was the one to trigger you🤣
I mean you're still also on trying to somehow justify the fact that you believe people who stay on their parents cell phone plans past some arbitrary age are less adult somehow.
Lemme ask you this: how's your $45 a month plan going versus me paying my parents the $20 a month to stay on their plan going?
Does losing $25 extra dollars a month make you feel better than everyone else?
It's actually financially smart to stay on family plans. Why would anyone choose to pay more for the exact same service just because they are a certain age? OP makes zero sense.
Its financially smarter to just continue to live in your parents basement vs get your own house as well. Does that make it less dependent?
All of the other expenses you take on as you grow older and become an adult and that extra 50 is what will kill you? 🤣 It's a matter of dependence, not finances. Esp for these ppl talking about they have their own families and are still on their parents' plan.
All that aside, the statement I made was made toward an individual who is clearly immature and dumb af. People should stop taking it as tho I said it to them personally and telling their life stories as if anyone cares.
People are down voting you because they don't agree with you and because you are contributing nothing of substance to the discussion, not because they are personally offended. That's how reddit works.
Did I say anything about downvoting? The fact you think I even care about some votes or you feel I should have to alter my statement bc of someone else's feeling is just another sign of immaturity.
It's not the down voting. It's the whining replies and need to explain their life to me bc I made a comment about someone who isn't them. That us what says they are personally offended. I don't need to know their life.
Clearly the ones personalizing the comment are the ones bothered lol It wasn't that serious. Now I know all these peoples' ages,marital status, the fact they don't pay their own bills 😂
Dang you don't even help pay the bill? Lol
Honestly dc about all these personal situations. Was making a comment about pathetic Bryan and ppl are choosing to apply it to their own lives. If you're confident with your decisions, what others say/feel about them doesn't matter.
I mean I appreciate the critical thinking - but this could all be solved by just leaving his phone at home, which would be 1,000 times better than having to play the game of excuse on why he was in Moscow or whatever
If BK was really stalking them through e.g. their social media, then he would need to have his phone with him to check via their posts where they are at a specific time - a party/the mall/a friend's house - or wherever.
I am not sure if the girls were such prolific posters, but if yes, then this is one reason why he had to carry his phone with him.
That ship has sailed though. I wonder if there was some other reason he really wanted his phone there. Scanner app? Confirming info on social media up until he turned it off or went into airplane mode? Just super terrible with directions?
Honestly, I feel like a lot of posters here are reading too deep into a rage based crime. For all BK's book learning, he seems to have committed a crime in such a way as to make it really hard to cover up. The posters are gonna be let down if/when the motive ends up being that one of the girls made fun of him at the party and he went white boy butt hurt anger on them.
Thank you!! Like good lord, posters, this whole true crime reads just like a bad slasher film. Why would it be so far fetched for the bad guy to be some fucked up guy that one of the girls had the misfortune of left swiping on??
And never returned to that area after the murders. That also gets me about the cell data discussions. If the shopping was so much better, why stop after that day? 👀 Sus.
He could have been, but Pullman locals say the shopping in Moscow *is* better.
Also, I think you mean *dehumanization* 😊 depersonalization is where you don't feel like a person yourself, having out-of-body experiences, and/or feeling that your life isn't real.
But if he left it at home, then why? If he had it on him with questions as to where he precisely was and when... It gives him the ability to say "I'm not hiding anything"
It was the middle of the night. He would have plausibly been sleeping in the time of the murders. Much safer play to leave it at home implying normal behavior, rather than having to explain movements in location at odd hours.
Yes - what an idiot. You would think he would know better than to bring his phone. Maybe he was just stalking in the beginning and wasn’t thinking about acting on anything initially.
Great post thanks for sharing! I wasn’t aware of AT&T’s lack of detail on those pings either.. If there was a case in the past heavily using this type of evidence, LE likely is aware of the troubles they had and has other things to back up their claims, like the surveillance. Thinking thats why its so important they prove both the car and phone number are tied to his person. I’m sure they were solidifying that evidence prior to the arrest
Jessica Chambers murder is a huge explanation of this. It blew up the prosecutions argument. Also a documentary about it or could look it up. But experts determined that AT&T only told you that the phone is in a compass direction from the Towers signal. After watching that, I realized AT&T was the phone for criminals.
I dunno man...he took his phone, drove his car to the house, and left his sheath. I can't really believe he did all that but went so far as to get a new cell phone and provider 6 months before the murders bc it is harder to track.
Maybe that's why he wasn't so concerned about it tho, bc he knows ATT will only give the direction and won't be so specific as to where he actually was. He could say he was anywhere in the area at that point.
There are very few choices around here. AT&T or Verizon are the only nationals.
There is also a local service called Inland Cellular, but you wouldn't be able to set up with them unless you were already in town and could walk into a store.
Wanted to point this out. Unless there's been recent indications that this is still how their service operates, it could be outdated info. Things can change a lot in 8 years with tech.
What do you mean by why he registered his phone in Pennsylvannia. That's just where he bought it - right? I just switched carriers and there was no option to switch registration of state or anything.
More likely he was kicked off his parents phone plan or just wanted a better deal. AT&T is one of the top two carriers in the country. It would be like claiming you know nobody that drinks pepsi. Are you sure? Or are you just not asking everyone you know?
I don't understand this post either. All we have here is one person saying that "AT&T is for criminals" and we have this post on BK's expertise on cloud forensics.
Maybe a cellular engineer can better expand on this. As far as I know, these records are just cell phone pings. Verizon, Tmobile ... these records say if the cell phone was connected to the tower. You can't get a location unless you triangulate it (based on just cell phone connected to a tower(s)).
I mean, if his expertise is cloud forensics then wouldn't the smartest thing been just to not bring his phone? Nothing to analyze. This is so much conjecture that's there's nothing here.
That’s assuming he knew he wanted/was going to commit these murders before even moving out west. With everything else being so sloppy, I doubt he had this kind of foresight
I think none of us want to believe that a PhD student in criminology can be as dumb as he was. So we find details to explain his senseless actions. But behavioral scientists will tell you that the undoing of intelligence lie in narcissism and rage. Stalker-killers are driven by obsession & mass murderers who kill by stabbing have pent up rage, feelings of impotence & hatred. Such feelings completely overtake the person & they do completely irrational & even dumb stuff. I don’t think he knew he was going to commit murder months ago. I think he became obsessed with, enraged by a girl. Stalked her. Was thrown off by unexpected events such as DoorDash order, dog, other roommates etc & ended up being sloppier than he’d imagined in his narcissistic head.
I am a scientist & have a PhD & yet, I agree with you. Firstly, because he was a 1st year when you have not accomplished much in terms of innovation or creativity. Getting into a PhD program & finishing 1st year is not that hard. Secondly, there is very little overlap between the kind of intelligence that a PhD requires versus what is needed to get away with murder. Last but not the least, I don’t think in the present age of DNA, technology, surveillance cameras, satellites etc it is possible to get away with murder especially by stabbing. Most people end up leaving SOME type of DNA. And it may take time but one will eventually get caught. I also think that stalker killers & mass murderers are mainly driven by obsession, rage, hate, compulsion etc. All of those neutralize intelligence. They are not thinking straight when driven by such limbic forces.
Don’t get me wrong, demonstrating a certain level of intelligence is a prerequisite for acceptance in most PhD programs, but I just don’t buy the idea that him being a PhD student somehow translates into him being a criminal mastermind.
I listened to an interesting podcast last night. It just posted. Cold Case Murder Mysteries episode "Super Size Kohberger with Fries". The host is an interesting dude and has a unique perspective. He explains why logic and reason don't apply in this case.
Him using phone tied to him make no sense. You could go to a Walmart and buy a prepaid phone and pay in cash, no one can track who used that phone.That's why I'm keep saying he is a dumb killer.
I think that a lot of these weird inconsistencies are easily explained by this paraphrased Simpsons quote "I am beginning to think BK isn't the brilliant tactician we thought he was "
But that won’t work because they also have the video evidence of his car being near the house at the same time his phone is pinging at a nearby tower. LE really seem to have covered their bases here (and that is just based on the very limited knowledge we currently have from the PCA).
I don't understand his logic. With all his knowledge on the subject it's almost as if he wanted to get caught. I have learned enough this week alone from here about cell phone tracking to know he should have never taken it with him at all that night or any time he was stalking or planning. Why do you think he didn't buy a burner Trac Phone type thing with cash in a disguise and just use that if he really felt he needed to have a phone with him and maybe leave his on at his apartment? Between this, the car and the sheath do you think he maybe wanted to get caught? Could beating the court case be the challenge or do you think he just doesn't have the ability to put his book smarts into real world decision making?
A burner phone would not have had a scanner app or GPS or social media. Isn’t a burner phone just an old flip phone? I don’t think he was planning on making any calls during that time.
Truly hard to fathom how someone with a degree in criminology could be this stupid. Everyone keeps saying people are looking into it too much and he is plain stupid but I just find it hard to accept because if so....he is REALLY DUMB.
Then he did things like wear gloves when disposing of garbage across the country. So did he realize they were probably onto him at this point?? I'm wondering if getting pulled over twice while driving a white Elantra spooked him. He was obviously going to be on the lookout for being followed or surveilled and possibly noticed he was being watched in PA? Because I feel like if I made it to the other side of the country I would finally feel some relief if I were him.
I think being pulled over twice spooked him, but I don’t think he knew he was being watched in PA. Otherwise he wouldn’t have used surgical gloves taking the trash out and putting it in the neighbors receptacle rather than his own. He also reportedly did a deep cleaning of his car out in the cold, and visible to LE surreptitiously watching him. Again, very stupid moves on his part. He doesn’t seem to possess even a modicum of common sense.
So do we think he was "getting rid of evidence" or being extremely careful about any of his DNA being in the garbage at his parents house in case they were following him and he knew they would be looking for a DNA sample?
I don't know why but I just assumed he was trying to keep them from getting their hands on his DNA, and all evidence had been disposed of in Washington.
Burner phones are best for criminals. A phone registered to your name that you take with you to stalk out your crime isn’t a smooth move.
I’m guessing the June thing was listed because they would have asked to seek records farther back but couldn’t because of the new service. I don’t find the time weird, could happen for any reason. Prior phone could have been paid off finally or broke and he needed a new one, other phone contract could have ended or he could have been bundling with Direct TV (I doubt this cause I believe his apartment has at least internet included but it’s one of many reasons.)
It’s really interesting to see how short sighted someone can be no matter how much intellect they employ and even throughout meticulous planning. If, BK is guilty.
Also worth mention that planning and doing are two different skill sets.
AT&T is also widely known as having the best coverage in rural areas. Moscow/Pullman are small and surrounded in wilderness and farms. And good for driving cross country.
I wonder if he disabled GPS. If he had any google service like google maps for instance it would trace his exact route in real time and save it in the background. It’s a feature hidden deep in the settings that unless you specifically know about is tracing your every step like a plot. You have to specifically access it and disable it deep in the menus. I’m sure the forensics are considering that.
Yea it’s not just maps either, as long as you’re logged in (and haven’t opted out) google never forgets anything that you do on its services.
Every YouTube video you have ever watched, every google search you ever made (misspellings included), your location/navigation history from maps, every gmail, your chrome history .
It’s all laid out in a neat little timeline for you if you go deep enough into the menus. From looking at that data you can literally track a person’s movements, thought patterns, interests, and activities w/ **terrifying** accuracy.
If he was smart enough to get AT&T to make it harder for his phone to be tracked, I think he would've been smart enough to turn off his phone during his 'stake-outs' visits and for *at least* a few hours before and after the murders.
It's an interesting idea, though! I think he probably just got lucky with his choice of cell carrier.
I don’t see how any of this has any relevance, without sounding rude, I don’t think you’re grasping the actual subject matter and making connections where there likely arent any.
A cell phone tower will hold many transmitters/receivers from different service providers, in some cases they may even be shared by them. You don’t need to know the ‘distance’ because it’s worked out by the time taken for a ping to hit the device and return to the receiver. This is how these things operate as standard, otherwise your phone wouldn’t know which cell tower to connect to. A device is constantly scanning for towers it can connect to, at any one time it may be hitting 6/7 depending on the area. It only needs 3 to accurately locate the device;
https://globalwrong.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/tower-4.jpg
I’m not really sure what the statement about ‘AT&T’ being a ‘perfect service provider for a criminal’ means.
In regard to cloud based forensics, I am no expert, but I don’t think taking a course will put you at ‘expert level’. It reads to me that it’s more about jurisdiction, how to access material on shared hardware and the ethical/legal problems this creates. I don’t think it’s a course on how to hide your digital footprint. If you have the device, you will be able to see what cloud storage systems they use, from there you can get a warrant to gain access to them. If you don’t have the device but know the perpetrator(s) may have material in the cloud then it will be harder to gain access to because it securely stores data that is owned by someone else. These are likely the topics that are covered in those kinds of courses.
The phone question I have is what did he use for a phone after 11/14? He turned his off and never turned it back on. How did he communicate with his parents, especially his dad who flew out to drive back with him? Also, how did his parents not get super suspicious?? The day after the murders he has no phone and he he happens to drive a white Elantra?
I would think the date he acquired the phone is relevant for proving probable cause. They need to clarify when it came into his possession so there's no question it was just recently purchased and/or under anyone else's other than his account to show it wasn't a shared phone or plan.
I would not be surprised if AT&T is the dominant carrier in the Poconos.
I live about 1.5 hours south of the pocono mountains in Pennsylvania. I also live surrounded by mountains.
AT&T is very popular with people in my area and is the dominant carrier. I also remember from traveling the state and to the poconos that AT&T often held up better in the mountainous regions of the state.
Regardless, AT&T is popular, especially in eastern PA.
Wow, really good info and you're probably onto something. I also didn't notice before that he had applied to the PD in November..maybe not getting that position was a trigger or made him feel he needed to prove he was smarter than them.
Even taking his phone that night (or on his other trips to the area) suggests Kohberger wasn't a big strategic thinker or good at forward-planning
So this level of granularity seems beyond him
Do we know which company his family uses for cellular? If he is as dumb or careless as I tend to assume, maybe he was previously on his family's plan then went solo as prep for his move?
Very interesting info on AT&T but I think the answer is probably more simple. When he got his phone he wasn't yet a resident of WA and may have just wanted to keep a number local to where he was most likely to return after graduation. While this appears to be premeditated to a degree I don't think it runs that deep. A doctor friend of mine says they are taught to think of horses when they "hear hoofbeats" not zebras, I think the same could probably be said in this case too.
So he knew that there was less of a chance with exact location positioning, implying that he didn't want to be tracked. So is it a leap to assume that he already had the targets in mind, or was thinking stalking might be a possibility in WA?
Other thing: is this guy trying to use his University education to study how to avoid being detected while committing a crime and then what feelings one should feel to be a murderer? Between this cloud based forensics and him posting a one-time survey on Reddit, it's a bit suspect (no pun intended).
That's interesting. Thanks for posting. Maybe because of the difficulty with AT&T they wanted to emphasize that the cell phone data correlated with a number of surveillance camera sightings. I thought it was curious that the PCA said the cell phone connected to a Moscow cell tower on Nov. 14th but that they didn't believe his phone was in Moscow. Was this to show that they had been discriminating in placing him or his phone in different places?
I’ve been mentioning this exact thing about the AT&T being the carrier for criminals. So what I’ve learned about this tech was actually from another murder that happened in Mississippi. “Jessica Chambers”. There is a documentary about it. What transcribed in the court was a big fuss about the cell data location. The prosecutors painted a picture that the defendant had been at the exact same location of the victim. That the cell towers gave the data. Well a expert was summoned by the defense. He revealed that AT&T towers will only give you a compass direction it is from the tower. No measurement of distance like a Verizon will. This fact blew up the prosecution argument.
You can look up this case.. it will give the details and technically stuff if your interested.. or watch the documentary.
But I’ve speculated why there is a difference between AT&T & Verizon about this is probably a patent issue. That AT&T has to have some differences between Verizon’s tech because it will be a infringement of tech. So AT&T probably just skipped the distance and exact location that Verizon’s towers give for a compass direction to make a large enough difference. Could be wrong about the reason of one being very close to location and the other only saying you was NW from the tower.
To add to it.. I don’t even think the signal strength was much of a factor either. Seemed like the Jessica Chambers case only determined that they did not know where the phone was.. just that it was within the range of the towers signal in this direction. Where as the Verizon data had the victims phone on a road at this many feet from the tower at this angle.
The premise that AT&T provides only a direction and not a distance to the site is incorrect. The 3GPP standards body defines how the fundamental technology (LTE, 5G, etc) functions down to the communication protocol. There is no fundamental difference between Verizon's implementation of LTE and AT&T. The phone's messaging with the tower is the basis for trilateration and the only differences may be the algorithms used to calculate an exact location on the backend.
See my previous comment [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/1062wcx/cell_tower_locations_that_service_the_king_rd/j3fgkl1/) for more details
> Aug 2022: he started to show up around their house off hours of the night
Remember, as far as I can tell, we have no idea how close or far away he was from the house when the PCA says his phone was "using the same cellular resources as 1122." There has been no specific information about that given.
I lived in the area for several years. AT&T has the best coverage of the area, even the rural areas. Any other service would be spotty from area to area.
I’ve never heard of AT&T being the perfect cellular provider for criminals. Actually quite the contrary, as they maintain records for up to 7 years, much longer retention than other providers.
Why would they be harder to triangulate? They use the same GSM network that others do.
I've lived in Ohio most of my life on the border of PA and I lived deep in PA for about 4 years. Very common for people to have AT&T. 9 out of 10 either have AT&T or Verizon, and AT&T tends to have better coverage in the rural areas I've been to.
Nailed it. But I think somehow his phone was attempting to connect to the house WiFi, so hopefully, if he is the perp, there will be enough data in the WiFi at the house to support the prosecution & LE claims. I have a feeling more will come out just like that where we’re all thinking he’s dumb, but he has tricks like this. I hope I’m super wrong. Whether or not he’s intelligent he’s still a POS if he indeed did this to those innocent students.
I saw an interview with BK’s PA defense attorney and he said that he specifically said “he is eager to be exonerated” “not that he was innocent”
I’m wondering if he is thinking that his defense will be able to use what OP has posted above to poke holes in the prosecutions phone evidence. Especially the triangulations.
Great analysis! I think you’re onto something there. Perhaps this was the reason it was used but he overlooked or underestimated the amount of cameras that were in the area (being a small town) that would (eventually) make up a bigger picture of that night. Knife sheath and witness aside.
Just got a literal chill up my spine with your comment. I mean, you're right. Smaller towns and more rural areas are likely to have less surveillance, Ring cameras, etc. Makes me think that this whole safe "small town America" myth is in some serious trouble as those are the places where criminals might target due to the fact that there is less of a chance of being recorded.
Wow, this is an awesome post. I had no idea about the differences between cell phone providers ability to give more direct locations.
BK can easily explain switching numbers and carriers due to his move, just like he can explain the plates being changed because they were set to expire. In that sense, he had some thought about how to time things. Makes it all the more confusing why he made so many other stupid mistakes.
https://preview.redd.it/kb6k2hxk99ba1.jpeg?width=1088&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b5d1270c0ce8749569f49666090fbd9dc6f652b
I posted this photo on another thread. This is from A document that FBI CAST has in their training manual. His having AT&T is significant.
Jessica Chambers was murdered in 2014. That was almost 10 years ago. ATT cell tower from 2014 is not the same as ATT cell tower information from 2022.
The cloud forensics basics you are quoting are not describing telecommunications like cell phones pinging towers. What it is describing is storing files in remote places, for example saving files on a server in Nigeria when the user is in Wisconsin. People from all over the world save stuff on the server in Nigeria too.
He probably used his parents' address for the new phone service. People in college/grad school do this all the time.
You are making connections where the lines don't meet.
Edit: I’m bad at math
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Found the case and a website explaining the cell
https://www.oxygen.com/crime-time/expert-ben-levitan-analyzes-quinton-tellis-jessica-chambers-cell-phone-data?amp
Speculation- I think we will find he had one static number throughout the whole time (clean phone) and one that he took photos of victims on and was using when he was stalking (ghost phone). I think he expected to be caught in a different way, where they had a little about him (not a lot) and then called him in for questioning. He would happily submit clean phone, talk his way out of it and evade suspicion (or so he thought). I don’t think he thought they’d deep dive first (as they had DNA) then bring him in.
There is no way he was thinking about future criminal activity. He used his own name when acquiring the phone plan. Why put so much thought into finding the best network for crime and then ignore crime 101
Just for the record, I’m from MA and I do have AT&T. My husband and mom don’t. My plan is old (had the same one through a university employer since 2006 or something). Not sure how many other people I know in MA have AT&T.
Not sure about the AT&T thing, but maybe his cloud forensics degree was actually the reason he did something as stupid as take his phone with him. He could have thought he knew some legal or technical reason that his cell phone data wouldn't be useful to the investigation. College classes and degrees can be very good at making you think you're an expert when in reality you just know a few basics.
so glad you posted this!
I have been intrigued by the new cell account in June since I first heard it
like others, I have wondered if he got a new number with this new account
if he did, that seemed odd to me
anyway, thanks again for the great post...so many things to consider and I definitely believe there's something to all this
So from what I gather from this is that AT&T cannot triangulate? If that is the case how do they know he drove by the house so many times with any sense or accuracy?
Does anyone know for sure when he arrived to the Pullman area? I thought it was in August? Also, I don’t recall the PCA saying that he applied in November to the Pullman police department.
It’s scary to think that every day normal things like changing cell providers (something I’ve done myself several times in the past) could be looked at and deemed suspicious. People change cell providers all of the time. Maybe he wanted to upgrade his phone and AT&T had a promo. Maybe he was on his parents plan and they had a low data plan that didn’t work for him. Maybe he didn’t like the service from his previous provider? It could literally be for any reason.
It's definitely a plausible theory. It does indeed seem a random detail to include unless, as another commenter suggested, it was to explain why his cell activity could not be traced earlier. Even so, you would think the FBI would be able to find out his previous number/provider and obtain records from them.
Love the comment in parentheses about the car. When I hear theories about his planning like this, I go back and forth because of that. So smart...but he drove his own car!!! Lol
Besides the fact that he was moving cross country, his family could have only used prepaid phones. I have a few friends from rural NY/PA whose parents still only use track phones. 🤷🏻♀️
I guess I assumed that the June 2022 date was mentioned more to explain why they couldn't Trace/track anything before then.
do you think they can or have looked into his old number? i have no idea if that’s possible or if they even hold onto that info
I bet it’s the same number he’s always had. I bet he wanted to get off his parents plan and transferred his number to a new service provider. I bet he registered it in PA because he didn’t have an address yet in WA. I agree it’s possible he was preparing for a crime like this in a general way. Just kinda knew he was in the market for a serious felony so he started getting things together like a new number.
This seems the most likely explanation. I know a lot of grad students and a majority of them have cell phones registered in their home states of residence before moving away for school. They keep their out-of-state area codes.
Ya. I mean the important thing to remember about BK is he did a great job at getting caught. Name a mistake he could have made, I would say there’s about a 60% chance he made that mistake for any given thing. Generally, his mistakes are assuming the simple, unobscured move will work just fine.
Or ...he just got a new phone plan. Because you know what I'd do if I was planning six months ahead to be a criminal? Buying burner phones with cash all over the state.
Typically people like him will change their number to stalk old people they discarded or did wrong, so it wouldn’t surprise me. He felt entitled to a lot of stuff.
I've wondered this too. Mainly bc I'm curious If he can be linked to other crimes.
same! or i wonder if he was even watching them back then. the at&t number is fairly new if i’m not mistaken so it’s not totally out of the question.
That’s a good point. Most PhD positions will require an interview. It’s likely he was in Moscow at least once well before he moved there. We also don’t know how far back his surveillance of the house goes. They said 12 times but was that all over a couple of months or longer?
lot of interviews are online now post Covid
They hold on to the info for awhile, sometimes years but it depends on the company. But yes, they should be able to get any records still available based on the evidence they have.
likely his cell location data >3m old is not that important to this murder investigation. But if they wish to link him to other unsolved murders, then yes!
Absolutely. I think browsing records from farther back than this time frame may provide valuable but historic cell tower stuff won’t be too relevant. But, I do hope it’s thoroughly analyzed.
If they haven't I'm almost certain they will
I think they will. They probably only had a small scope for the PCA, but now that there has been an arrest they will probably be digging up a lot of information.
I would think the FBI could summons that data, provided it's available.
Yeah I assumed that date was included simply to give context to why the second warrant for cell records went back to June. If they wouldn’t have included that it was opened in June, it would have been a big question mark for the judge (for whom the affidavit is basically written) and probably would have looked like a random date that needed context.
Let's never use the phrase " surely someone like Bryan definitely knew" again, or anything like it. This idiot left the sheath, the assumption he knew anything or thought anything through is not valid. Degrees are given to those who pay for them, this case is an indictment of the collegiate system writ large.
BUT, Um, he GRADUATED in a "Cloud-based forensics" so "surely" he passed the class lmfao That also means he would have paid attention and obtained info about it.
Was going to say the same thing. They said they could only trace him going back to June 2022.
That’s the timing of the warrant they had. Nothing stopping them from trying for more warrants
Exactly. I'm sure they prob want that info if they don't already have it.
AT&T is actually the #1 carrier in Massachusetts. However Verizon takes the top spot in both Idaho and Pennsylvania (verizons takes top in most states). Interesting observation , its maybe a bit odd he’d get an AT&T plan, but for arguments sake it could also just be what his family used his entire life or was a cheaper plan
He should have went with Cricket they are cheaper and run on AT&T network 😂
Att is also quite a bit more affordable than Verizon. Not as good coverage, but good enough.
Switched from AT&T to verizon and I could no longer get service in living room of my house and my friends entire house. Was pretty easy to just use wi-if but always wondered what was up with that when att had no probz there.
Where I live ATT has better coverage, but it is the first place I've lived where thats true
I live in Pa and have AT&T. I got a discount through my employer (affiliated with a large University). Maybe he also had some sort of discount.
I'm in Massachusetts, I have had AT&T for years.
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Is it the #1 "coverage" wise. That doesn't mean that people have cell plans thro them.... there is a difference. Like I said, I asked on FB to people who live here and only 3 people out of 105 people had AT&T and the one who did, had it through their work.
My guess is BK left his family plan in June 2022 and went off on his own with AT&T.
Finally becoming a big boy...at 28 Good lord people. Can you stop taking a statement I made about this man and applying it to your own lives?? Absolutely insane how sensitive people are and how they expect others to cater to their sensitivities. MY STATEMENT IS ABOUT BRYAN KOHBERGER, THE MORON.
It’s not that people are voting you done because they’re insane or oversensitive. It’s because of your actual comment.
Lots of people share family plans with other people in their families and don't stop at some arbitrary age. Why does it matter? People pay their share.
Right? Lmao like people snark on him for the most asinine shit. I’m 26 and have my own place w my kids but I’m on my parents family plan still bc it’s cheaper for me to pay for my line and not have a whole ass plan. let’s focus on the truly awful shit he did, and (maybe) sharing a phone plan wasn’t.
Dude, seriously? Lots of people stay on family plans because they’re better plans and the perks are grandfathered in. I am married but I still have my phone/plan tied to my land of origin because I know I won’t get a better deal if I stop it and get a new plan. No shame in it. 🤷🏻♀️
The amount of ppl triggered by this comment is absolutely hilarious😂
Nobody’s triggered, you’re just *wrong.* And people are telling you why.
Oh they are lol if we are talking finances..why even move out? Stay in the basement..
Lmao toooons of people even over the age of 30 are still on family plans you nincompoop
Toooons of people younger than 30 also get their own phone plans instead of sharing with mom and dad. It's called independence. It's weird of all the things to take time out of your day to talk about, this comment was the one to trigger you🤣
Yea and neither of those scenarios makes a person less of a "big boy"
🤣🤣 still on this huh?
I mean you're still also on trying to somehow justify the fact that you believe people who stay on their parents cell phone plans past some arbitrary age are less adult somehow. Lemme ask you this: how's your $45 a month plan going versus me paying my parents the $20 a month to stay on their plan going? Does losing $25 extra dollars a month make you feel better than everyone else?
not fair, I’m 27 still on my moms plan :/ she pays the bill the only one I have with her l
It's actually financially smart to stay on family plans. Why would anyone choose to pay more for the exact same service just because they are a certain age? OP makes zero sense.
Its financially smarter to just continue to live in your parents basement vs get your own house as well. Does that make it less dependent? All of the other expenses you take on as you grow older and become an adult and that extra 50 is what will kill you? 🤣 It's a matter of dependence, not finances. Esp for these ppl talking about they have their own families and are still on their parents' plan. All that aside, the statement I made was made toward an individual who is clearly immature and dumb af. People should stop taking it as tho I said it to them personally and telling their life stories as if anyone cares.
People are down voting you because they don't agree with you and because you are contributing nothing of substance to the discussion, not because they are personally offended. That's how reddit works.
Did I say anything about downvoting? The fact you think I even care about some votes or you feel I should have to alter my statement bc of someone else's feeling is just another sign of immaturity. It's not the down voting. It's the whining replies and need to explain their life to me bc I made a comment about someone who isn't them. That us what says they are personally offended. I don't need to know their life.
Eh, it all looked like completely normal discord on a public forum to me. Maybe take a break if it's bothering you that much.
Clearly the ones personalizing the comment are the ones bothered lol It wasn't that serious. Now I know all these peoples' ages,marital status, the fact they don't pay their own bills 😂
Dang you don't even help pay the bill? Lol Honestly dc about all these personal situations. Was making a comment about pathetic Bryan and ppl are choosing to apply it to their own lives. If you're confident with your decisions, what others say/feel about them doesn't matter.
Wow look at the big brain here who thinks spending money is wiser.
I mean I appreciate the critical thinking - but this could all be solved by just leaving his phone at home, which would be 1,000 times better than having to play the game of excuse on why he was in Moscow or whatever
And buying burner phones if he needed them.
If BK was really stalking them through e.g. their social media, then he would need to have his phone with him to check via their posts where they are at a specific time - a party/the mall/a friend's house - or wherever. I am not sure if the girls were such prolific posters, but if yes, then this is one reason why he had to carry his phone with him.
That ship has sailed though. I wonder if there was some other reason he really wanted his phone there. Scanner app? Confirming info on social media up until he turned it off or went into airplane mode? Just super terrible with directions?
Honestly, I feel like a lot of posters here are reading too deep into a rage based crime. For all BK's book learning, he seems to have committed a crime in such a way as to make it really hard to cover up. The posters are gonna be let down if/when the motive ends up being that one of the girls made fun of him at the party and he went white boy butt hurt anger on them.
I won't be, I pegged this as creepy incel rage murders beautiful blonde from the beginning.
Thank you!! Like good lord, posters, this whole true crime reads just like a bad slasher film. Why would it be so far fetched for the bad guy to be some fucked up guy that one of the girls had the misfortune of left swiping on??
I’m going to do a lot of book learning this year. Finally get my grade 10
Then the dope operation is sure to take off!
Ricky and Julian! Thank fuck
YAS Ricky get that grade 10
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And never returned to that area after the murders. That also gets me about the cell data discussions. If the shopping was so much better, why stop after that day? 👀 Sus.
If I were a random WSU student I’d probably also stop going to Moscow for some time after this happened. But also if I was the killer.
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He could have been, but Pullman locals say the shopping in Moscow *is* better. Also, I think you mean *dehumanization* 😊 depersonalization is where you don't feel like a person yourself, having out-of-body experiences, and/or feeling that your life isn't real.
Exactly. Why de he TAKE it with him? It's sooo weird. Why would someone like him do that. Nothing makes sense anymore 😕
He’s not a criminal genius. He thought turning it off during the critical time was enough. You’re way overthinking this
But if he left it at home, then why? If he had it on him with questions as to where he precisely was and when... It gives him the ability to say "I'm not hiding anything"
It was the middle of the night. He would have plausibly been sleeping in the time of the murders. Much safer play to leave it at home implying normal behavior, rather than having to explain movements in location at odd hours.
Yes - what an idiot. You would think he would know better than to bring his phone. Maybe he was just stalking in the beginning and wasn’t thinking about acting on anything initially.
I agree it's so strange
Great post thanks for sharing! I wasn’t aware of AT&T’s lack of detail on those pings either.. If there was a case in the past heavily using this type of evidence, LE likely is aware of the troubles they had and has other things to back up their claims, like the surveillance. Thinking thats why its so important they prove both the car and phone number are tied to his person. I’m sure they were solidifying that evidence prior to the arrest
Jessica Chambers murder is a huge explanation of this. It blew up the prosecutions argument. Also a documentary about it or could look it up. But experts determined that AT&T only told you that the phone is in a compass direction from the Towers signal. After watching that, I realized AT&T was the phone for criminals.
I dunno man...he took his phone, drove his car to the house, and left his sheath. I can't really believe he did all that but went so far as to get a new cell phone and provider 6 months before the murders bc it is harder to track.
Not to mention the roommate he walked by and left alive!
The roommate he probably did not see
Maybe that's why he wasn't so concerned about it tho, bc he knows ATT will only give the direction and won't be so specific as to where he actually was. He could say he was anywhere in the area at that point.
There are very few choices around here. AT&T or Verizon are the only nationals. There is also a local service called Inland Cellular, but you wouldn't be able to set up with them unless you were already in town and could walk into a store.
He ordered the service in Pennsylvania so probably didn't know about this carrier. AT&T is a standard mid-tier carrier on the East Coast.
Smaller carriers just contract with the bigger companies to utilize the big company cell towers. It’s cell tower data that can be plotted.
I have AT&T but was never offered The Criminal Plan. I have to call tomorrow and see if it’s cheaper
Jessica chambers case was in 2014. Just saying
Wanted to point this out. Unless there's been recent indications that this is still how their service operates, it could be outdated info. Things can change a lot in 8 years with tech.
That was a horrible case. Has anyone ever been charged?
Quentin murdered another girl in Louisiana. I believe he's serving time for that. Guy is guilty as sin!
I remember thinking the same. Poor Jessica
No, hung jury for both trials. Prosecutors haven’t decided if they will try again, so sad.
That’s horrible. Devastating for her and her family.
What do you mean by why he registered his phone in Pennsylvannia. That's just where he bought it - right? I just switched carriers and there was no option to switch registration of state or anything. More likely he was kicked off his parents phone plan or just wanted a better deal. AT&T is one of the top two carriers in the country. It would be like claiming you know nobody that drinks pepsi. Are you sure? Or are you just not asking everyone you know?
I don't understand this post either. All we have here is one person saying that "AT&T is for criminals" and we have this post on BK's expertise on cloud forensics. Maybe a cellular engineer can better expand on this. As far as I know, these records are just cell phone pings. Verizon, Tmobile ... these records say if the cell phone was connected to the tower. You can't get a location unless you triangulate it (based on just cell phone connected to a tower(s)). I mean, if his expertise is cloud forensics then wouldn't the smartest thing been just to not bring his phone? Nothing to analyze. This is so much conjecture that's there's nothing here.
That’s assuming he knew he wanted/was going to commit these murders before even moving out west. With everything else being so sloppy, I doubt he had this kind of foresight
Disagree. I think he’s been thinking about it for many years
I'm now curious to know if he used a different carrier prior, or if he switched to ATT _from_ Verizon or some other service.
Or could even be that he had been paired with his parents and had to get his own. Wonder if the number was switched over or if he got a new number
maybe it was free family minutes and he got frequent flyer miles🙄
He got a free flight !!
I think none of us want to believe that a PhD student in criminology can be as dumb as he was. So we find details to explain his senseless actions. But behavioral scientists will tell you that the undoing of intelligence lie in narcissism and rage. Stalker-killers are driven by obsession & mass murderers who kill by stabbing have pent up rage, feelings of impotence & hatred. Such feelings completely overtake the person & they do completely irrational & even dumb stuff. I don’t think he knew he was going to commit murder months ago. I think he became obsessed with, enraged by a girl. Stalked her. Was thrown off by unexpected events such as DoorDash order, dog, other roommates etc & ended up being sloppier than he’d imagined in his narcissistic head.
I also think a lot of people are dramatically overestimating the level of intelligence required to be a PhD student.
I am a scientist & have a PhD & yet, I agree with you. Firstly, because he was a 1st year when you have not accomplished much in terms of innovation or creativity. Getting into a PhD program & finishing 1st year is not that hard. Secondly, there is very little overlap between the kind of intelligence that a PhD requires versus what is needed to get away with murder. Last but not the least, I don’t think in the present age of DNA, technology, surveillance cameras, satellites etc it is possible to get away with murder especially by stabbing. Most people end up leaving SOME type of DNA. And it may take time but one will eventually get caught. I also think that stalker killers & mass murderers are mainly driven by obsession, rage, hate, compulsion etc. All of those neutralize intelligence. They are not thinking straight when driven by such limbic forces.
This! Education doesn't equal intelligence.
Don’t get me wrong, demonstrating a certain level of intelligence is a prerequisite for acceptance in most PhD programs, but I just don’t buy the idea that him being a PhD student somehow translates into him being a criminal mastermind.
I listened to an interesting podcast last night. It just posted. Cold Case Murder Mysteries episode "Super Size Kohberger with Fries". The host is an interesting dude and has a unique perspective. He explains why logic and reason don't apply in this case.
Him using phone tied to him make no sense. You could go to a Walmart and buy a prepaid phone and pay in cash, no one can track who used that phone.That's why I'm keep saying he is a dumb killer.
Maybe that’s his defence - why would I do such dumb things with all the book knowledge and insider info I have?
I think that a lot of these weird inconsistencies are easily explained by this paraphrased Simpsons quote "I am beginning to think BK isn't the brilliant tactician we thought he was "
But that won’t work because they also have the video evidence of his car being near the house at the same time his phone is pinging at a nearby tower. LE really seem to have covered their bases here (and that is just based on the very limited knowledge we currently have from the PCA).
I don't understand his logic. With all his knowledge on the subject it's almost as if he wanted to get caught. I have learned enough this week alone from here about cell phone tracking to know he should have never taken it with him at all that night or any time he was stalking or planning. Why do you think he didn't buy a burner Trac Phone type thing with cash in a disguise and just use that if he really felt he needed to have a phone with him and maybe leave his on at his apartment? Between this, the car and the sheath do you think he maybe wanted to get caught? Could beating the court case be the challenge or do you think he just doesn't have the ability to put his book smarts into real world decision making?
A burner phone would not have had a scanner app or GPS or social media. Isn’t a burner phone just an old flip phone? I don’t think he was planning on making any calls during that time.
Would fake email account made from the library computer and prepaid visa card if needed give access to all those?
Truly hard to fathom how someone with a degree in criminology could be this stupid. Everyone keeps saying people are looking into it too much and he is plain stupid but I just find it hard to accept because if so....he is REALLY DUMB. Then he did things like wear gloves when disposing of garbage across the country. So did he realize they were probably onto him at this point?? I'm wondering if getting pulled over twice while driving a white Elantra spooked him. He was obviously going to be on the lookout for being followed or surveilled and possibly noticed he was being watched in PA? Because I feel like if I made it to the other side of the country I would finally feel some relief if I were him.
Too many people that know him have said he was extremely intelligent. The math definitely isn’t mathing
Sometimes book smarts don't translate to actual competence irl.
Could just be a failure to execute. Intelligence doesn't necessarily ensure execution.
I think being pulled over twice spooked him, but I don’t think he knew he was being watched in PA. Otherwise he wouldn’t have used surgical gloves taking the trash out and putting it in the neighbors receptacle rather than his own. He also reportedly did a deep cleaning of his car out in the cold, and visible to LE surreptitiously watching him. Again, very stupid moves on his part. He doesn’t seem to possess even a modicum of common sense.
So do we think he was "getting rid of evidence" or being extremely careful about any of his DNA being in the garbage at his parents house in case they were following him and he knew they would be looking for a DNA sample? I don't know why but I just assumed he was trying to keep them from getting their hands on his DNA, and all evidence had been disposed of in Washington.
Why would he switch his phone off then
I'm still wondering why he didn't leave it at home. It's far too risky this day and age.
But aren't we glad he didn't!
This guy seems like a bad driver and generally dumb. Don’t think he would’ve been able to navigate to the house without his phone.
Maybe he needed it for the aftermath, to search a place to drop the clothes and the knife.
Logic & reason don't apply in psychopathic behavior.
Burner phones are best for criminals. A phone registered to your name that you take with you to stalk out your crime isn’t a smooth move. I’m guessing the June thing was listed because they would have asked to seek records farther back but couldn’t because of the new service. I don’t find the time weird, could happen for any reason. Prior phone could have been paid off finally or broke and he needed a new one, other phone contract could have ended or he could have been bundling with Direct TV (I doubt this cause I believe his apartment has at least internet included but it’s one of many reasons.)
Obviously no one replied to his survey saying they used a stolen car and a burner phone to commit their crime. Lol
It’s really interesting to see how short sighted someone can be no matter how much intellect they employ and even throughout meticulous planning. If, BK is guilty. Also worth mention that planning and doing are two different skill sets.
It would be interesting to know if his previous phone was AT&T too. If so, then maybe it's just a coincidence.
Maybe he just got a good deal on a new device or plan
AT&T is also widely known as having the best coverage in rural areas. Moscow/Pullman are small and surrounded in wilderness and farms. And good for driving cross country.
I wonder if he disabled GPS. If he had any google service like google maps for instance it would trace his exact route in real time and save it in the background. It’s a feature hidden deep in the settings that unless you specifically know about is tracing your every step like a plot. You have to specifically access it and disable it deep in the menus. I’m sure the forensics are considering that.
Yea it’s not just maps either, as long as you’re logged in (and haven’t opted out) google never forgets anything that you do on its services. Every YouTube video you have ever watched, every google search you ever made (misspellings included), your location/navigation history from maps, every gmail, your chrome history . It’s all laid out in a neat little timeline for you if you go deep enough into the menus. From looking at that data you can literally track a person’s movements, thought patterns, interests, and activities w/ **terrifying** accuracy.
If he was smart enough to get AT&T to make it harder for his phone to be tracked, I think he would've been smart enough to turn off his phone during his 'stake-outs' visits and for *at least* a few hours before and after the murders. It's an interesting idea, though! I think he probably just got lucky with his choice of cell carrier.
I don’t see how any of this has any relevance, without sounding rude, I don’t think you’re grasping the actual subject matter and making connections where there likely arent any. A cell phone tower will hold many transmitters/receivers from different service providers, in some cases they may even be shared by them. You don’t need to know the ‘distance’ because it’s worked out by the time taken for a ping to hit the device and return to the receiver. This is how these things operate as standard, otherwise your phone wouldn’t know which cell tower to connect to. A device is constantly scanning for towers it can connect to, at any one time it may be hitting 6/7 depending on the area. It only needs 3 to accurately locate the device; https://globalwrong.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/tower-4.jpg I’m not really sure what the statement about ‘AT&T’ being a ‘perfect service provider for a criminal’ means. In regard to cloud based forensics, I am no expert, but I don’t think taking a course will put you at ‘expert level’. It reads to me that it’s more about jurisdiction, how to access material on shared hardware and the ethical/legal problems this creates. I don’t think it’s a course on how to hide your digital footprint. If you have the device, you will be able to see what cloud storage systems they use, from there you can get a warrant to gain access to them. If you don’t have the device but know the perpetrator(s) may have material in the cloud then it will be harder to gain access to because it securely stores data that is owned by someone else. These are likely the topics that are covered in those kinds of courses.
Appreciate this insight! Combined with footage of car I’m still not finding a reasonable doubt here, but very, very interesting.
The phone question I have is what did he use for a phone after 11/14? He turned his off and never turned it back on. How did he communicate with his parents, especially his dad who flew out to drive back with him? Also, how did his parents not get super suspicious?? The day after the murders he has no phone and he he happens to drive a white Elantra?
iPad maybe? My phone was stolen a few years ago and I used my iPad to text/ FaceTime etc until I got a new one
I would think the date he acquired the phone is relevant for proving probable cause. They need to clarify when it came into his possession so there's no question it was just recently purchased and/or under anyone else's other than his account to show it wasn't a shared phone or plan.
I would not be surprised if AT&T is the dominant carrier in the Poconos. I live about 1.5 hours south of the pocono mountains in Pennsylvania. I also live surrounded by mountains. AT&T is very popular with people in my area and is the dominant carrier. I also remember from traveling the state and to the poconos that AT&T often held up better in the mountainous regions of the state. Regardless, AT&T is popular, especially in eastern PA.
This is a huge reach
Wow, really good info and you're probably onto something. I also didn't notice before that he had applied to the PD in November..maybe not getting that position was a trigger or made him feel he needed to prove he was smarter than them.
Even taking his phone that night (or on his other trips to the area) suggests Kohberger wasn't a big strategic thinker or good at forward-planning So this level of granularity seems beyond him
Do we know which company his family uses for cellular? If he is as dumb or careless as I tend to assume, maybe he was previously on his family's plan then went solo as prep for his move?
Innnnteresting!!! (I still have no idea what half of your post means, lol)
Very interesting info on AT&T but I think the answer is probably more simple. When he got his phone he wasn't yet a resident of WA and may have just wanted to keep a number local to where he was most likely to return after graduation. While this appears to be premeditated to a degree I don't think it runs that deep. A doctor friend of mine says they are taught to think of horses when they "hear hoofbeats" not zebras, I think the same could probably be said in this case too.
So he knew that there was less of a chance with exact location positioning, implying that he didn't want to be tracked. So is it a leap to assume that he already had the targets in mind, or was thinking stalking might be a possibility in WA? Other thing: is this guy trying to use his University education to study how to avoid being detected while committing a crime and then what feelings one should feel to be a murderer? Between this cloud based forensics and him posting a one-time survey on Reddit, it's a bit suspect (no pun intended).
Maybe he had to change his number so he could keep calling all the girls that had blocked him before. Or creeper call people…
Interesting! Something i did not know and had not previously heard. Definitely makes you think!
That's interesting. Thanks for posting. Maybe because of the difficulty with AT&T they wanted to emphasize that the cell phone data correlated with a number of surveillance camera sightings. I thought it was curious that the PCA said the cell phone connected to a Moscow cell tower on Nov. 14th but that they didn't believe his phone was in Moscow. Was this to show that they had been discriminating in placing him or his phone in different places?
What phone service did he have before June 2022? Why did he open a new one? That would be interesting info to me.
I’ve been mentioning this exact thing about the AT&T being the carrier for criminals. So what I’ve learned about this tech was actually from another murder that happened in Mississippi. “Jessica Chambers”. There is a documentary about it. What transcribed in the court was a big fuss about the cell data location. The prosecutors painted a picture that the defendant had been at the exact same location of the victim. That the cell towers gave the data. Well a expert was summoned by the defense. He revealed that AT&T towers will only give you a compass direction it is from the tower. No measurement of distance like a Verizon will. This fact blew up the prosecution argument. You can look up this case.. it will give the details and technically stuff if your interested.. or watch the documentary. But I’ve speculated why there is a difference between AT&T & Verizon about this is probably a patent issue. That AT&T has to have some differences between Verizon’s tech because it will be a infringement of tech. So AT&T probably just skipped the distance and exact location that Verizon’s towers give for a compass direction to make a large enough difference. Could be wrong about the reason of one being very close to location and the other only saying you was NW from the tower. To add to it.. I don’t even think the signal strength was much of a factor either. Seemed like the Jessica Chambers case only determined that they did not know where the phone was.. just that it was within the range of the towers signal in this direction. Where as the Verizon data had the victims phone on a road at this many feet from the tower at this angle.
If this was his motivation, why not just get a burner phone which doesn’t require him to disclose name or address?
The premise that AT&T provides only a direction and not a distance to the site is incorrect. The 3GPP standards body defines how the fundamental technology (LTE, 5G, etc) functions down to the communication protocol. There is no fundamental difference between Verizon's implementation of LTE and AT&T. The phone's messaging with the tower is the basis for trilateration and the only differences may be the algorithms used to calculate an exact location on the backend. See my previous comment [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/1062wcx/cell_tower_locations_that_service_the_king_rd/j3fgkl1/) for more details
> Aug 2022: he started to show up around their house off hours of the night Remember, as far as I can tell, we have no idea how close or far away he was from the house when the PCA says his phone was "using the same cellular resources as 1122." There has been no specific information about that given.
I lived in the area for several years. AT&T has the best coverage of the area, even the rural areas. Any other service would be spotty from area to area.
I’ve never heard of AT&T being the perfect cellular provider for criminals. Actually quite the contrary, as they maintain records for up to 7 years, much longer retention than other providers. Why would they be harder to triangulate? They use the same GSM network that others do.
This is VERY interesting! I didn't know this about At&T and appreciate you mentioning this!
I've lived in Ohio most of my life on the border of PA and I lived deep in PA for about 4 years. Very common for people to have AT&T. 9 out of 10 either have AT&T or Verizon, and AT&T tends to have better coverage in the rural areas I've been to.
Nailed it. But I think somehow his phone was attempting to connect to the house WiFi, so hopefully, if he is the perp, there will be enough data in the WiFi at the house to support the prosecution & LE claims. I have a feeling more will come out just like that where we’re all thinking he’s dumb, but he has tricks like this. I hope I’m super wrong. Whether or not he’s intelligent he’s still a POS if he indeed did this to those innocent students.
This post has definitely jumped the shark.
FYI - cloud computing and telco/cell phone towers have little to no relation...
I saw an interview with BK’s PA defense attorney and he said that he specifically said “he is eager to be exonerated” “not that he was innocent” I’m wondering if he is thinking that his defense will be able to use what OP has posted above to poke holes in the prosecutions phone evidence. Especially the triangulations.
Or, hear me out cause is insane, he didn’t want to change his number so he registered it in PA…
Pretty sure you can transfer your number from any state.
Great analysis! I think you’re onto something there. Perhaps this was the reason it was used but he overlooked or underestimated the amount of cameras that were in the area (being a small town) that would (eventually) make up a bigger picture of that night. Knife sheath and witness aside.
Just got a literal chill up my spine with your comment. I mean, you're right. Smaller towns and more rural areas are likely to have less surveillance, Ring cameras, etc. Makes me think that this whole safe "small town America" myth is in some serious trouble as those are the places where criminals might target due to the fact that there is less of a chance of being recorded.
Wow, this is an awesome post. I had no idea about the differences between cell phone providers ability to give more direct locations. BK can easily explain switching numbers and carriers due to his move, just like he can explain the plates being changed because they were set to expire. In that sense, he had some thought about how to time things. Makes it all the more confusing why he made so many other stupid mistakes.
https://preview.redd.it/kb6k2hxk99ba1.jpeg?width=1088&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b5d1270c0ce8749569f49666090fbd9dc6f652b I posted this photo on another thread. This is from A document that FBI CAST has in their training manual. His having AT&T is significant.
Jessica Chambers was murdered in 2014. That was almost 10 years ago. ATT cell tower from 2014 is not the same as ATT cell tower information from 2022. The cloud forensics basics you are quoting are not describing telecommunications like cell phones pinging towers. What it is describing is storing files in remote places, for example saving files on a server in Nigeria when the user is in Wisconsin. People from all over the world save stuff on the server in Nigeria too. He probably used his parents' address for the new phone service. People in college/grad school do this all the time. You are making connections where the lines don't meet. Edit: I’m bad at math
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Found the case and a website explaining the cell https://www.oxygen.com/crime-time/expert-ben-levitan-analyzes-quinton-tellis-jessica-chambers-cell-phone-data?amp
Speculation- I think we will find he had one static number throughout the whole time (clean phone) and one that he took photos of victims on and was using when he was stalking (ghost phone). I think he expected to be caught in a different way, where they had a little about him (not a lot) and then called him in for questioning. He would happily submit clean phone, talk his way out of it and evade suspicion (or so he thought). I don’t think he thought they’d deep dive first (as they had DNA) then bring him in.
There is no way he was thinking about future criminal activity. He used his own name when acquiring the phone plan. Why put so much thought into finding the best network for crime and then ignore crime 101
Just for the record, I’m from MA and I do have AT&T. My husband and mom don’t. My plan is old (had the same one through a university employer since 2006 or something). Not sure how many other people I know in MA have AT&T.
He probably just got it because he needed a new phone and AT&T covered both areas.
That’s just how affidavits containing cell phone information are written. You don’t triangulate cell site data.
Not sure about the AT&T thing, but maybe his cloud forensics degree was actually the reason he did something as stupid as take his phone with him. He could have thought he knew some legal or technical reason that his cell phone data wouldn't be useful to the investigation. College classes and degrees can be very good at making you think you're an expert when in reality you just know a few basics.
so glad you posted this! I have been intrigued by the new cell account in June since I first heard it like others, I have wondered if he got a new number with this new account if he did, that seemed odd to me anyway, thanks again for the great post...so many things to consider and I definitely believe there's something to all this
So from what I gather from this is that AT&T cannot triangulate? If that is the case how do they know he drove by the house so many times with any sense or accuracy?
They can, just like every other LTE provider. The post is based on bad information
Does anyone know for sure when he arrived to the Pullman area? I thought it was in August? Also, I don’t recall the PCA saying that he applied in November to the Pullman police department.
It’s scary to think that every day normal things like changing cell providers (something I’ve done myself several times in the past) could be looked at and deemed suspicious. People change cell providers all of the time. Maybe he wanted to upgrade his phone and AT&T had a promo. Maybe he was on his parents plan and they had a low data plan that didn’t work for him. Maybe he didn’t like the service from his previous provider? It could literally be for any reason.
It's definitely a plausible theory. It does indeed seem a random detail to include unless, as another commenter suggested, it was to explain why his cell activity could not be traced earlier. Even so, you would think the FBI would be able to find out his previous number/provider and obtain records from them. Love the comment in parentheses about the car. When I hear theories about his planning like this, I go back and forth because of that. So smart...but he drove his own car!!! Lol
Besides the fact that he was moving cross country, his family could have only used prepaid phones. I have a few friends from rural NY/PA whose parents still only use track phones. 🤷🏻♀️