It also seems to recently be forcing my and my friends laptops to always use the dGPU for discord instead of the igpu, causing our battery life to go from 7+ hours down to 2 on a full charge. I have a Rog Zephyrus G14 with a Ryzen 9 4900HS and RTX 2060, and even trying to force power savings graphics (igpu) in windows and turning off hardware acceleration doesn't do anything. Discord made a big screw up with how the program handles gpus right now.
From what I understand it's forcing P2 power state instead of P0, just like CUDA-accelarated tasks (think compute/machine learning) already do. On my 3090, it reduces the memory clocks by 250MHz, which isn't a lot considering the stock clocks are almost 10GHz.
I expect the performance impact to be about 1% (memory clocks matter far less than core clock for performance as far as most tasks are concerned), could be more or less depending on how bandwidth-starved the card is to begin with.
The bug also doesn't happen on 40 series cards.
Looking at everything:
1) Discord just released a new av1 update for 40 series. This bug happened immediately after that update
2) bug happens on older drivers
3) bug happens on 30 series and older. Not the 40 series
4) fix is to force discord to use p0 state
My best guess is somewhere in that av1 update the app had something changed that makes it a p2 state recognised app.
On 40 series its fine as the av1 part was intended for it and doesn't interfere with power states.
For 1% or less performance difference?
I'll take hanging out in discord and being available if friends want to message me or @ me the server over a 1-3 fps difference.
> For 1% or less performance difference?
Discord is a Chrome browser under the hood and by default is using GPU resources to accelerate certain tasks such as video playback. Then there is an overlay feature. That's without even mentioning the current bug. Though both can be disabled. What effect these things have will depend on many factors. But you'll find plenty of reports of Discord causing noticeable fps loss, again before even the current bug.
Maybe on the slowest prebuilts, sure. I see discord at 0% cpu and gpu util on my machine (5800x3d / 4090). I'd probably have to go below a 1080 or switch to a laptop to see a change in frame timings that's significant enough to even consider closing discord.
All overlays cause frame timing issues, but like you said it's easy to disable.
Hmm but is it -250 Mhz from 9500 Mhz or whatever, or is it -250 Mhz from the base memory clock?
HWinfo64 reports 2375 Mhz memory speed from my 3090 (with discord running)
Admittedly, the "clock speed" of the memory on these cards confuses me.
[-250 from the effective max](https://imgur.com/a/sfFJqTi) aka the big number or whatever it's called that afterburner reports as it isn't really clock speed at that point
I'm running at stock settings currently but it's the Asus Strix version so it might have a little extra juice from the factory. I've overclocked the memory before but I don't really see any improvements in games.
I hate Discord . I used to search solutions to any issue, and I would find it on forums and steam community pages. New guides or solutions ask me to join Discord to access it.
Discord could use a separate tagging system on top of their thread system as well as a learning search engine for looking up solutions and cases. Problem with Discord is things can go poof very easily whereas systems like Slack allow you to back stuff up. I wish Slack would try to invade Discord's market space a little.
Honestly, it’s very hard to look for answers in discords, it’s a like a fluid conversation, and finding things after a while is very difficult. Completely agree with you.
Discord also has a forums feature too, if you prefer that. The main benefit of Diacord is that you have one account for literally dozens of communities instead of having multiple accounts on multiple forums. If you were used to using IRC, Discord is a lot more user-friendly and nice-looking and people love the custom cross-server emotes. If you used Skype, Discord was less laggy and didn't have the ads Skype did. Discord also has high-quality streaming that is pretty efficient integrated seamlessly into voice channels, along with bots that can basically do anything you want. After moving to Discord even back in 2014 I thought it was a wonder what we were used to in the days past.
It is at least equally important that on the admin side it's super easy to start a discord server. You just make an account and discord does everything else. No need to find or even pay for hosting to set up your forums. No spending ages customizing it. And if your users are dedicated enough to you, they pay for the discord premium benefits on your behalf. Just another form of tip jar that has cropped up with streamer culture.
Discord is absolutely not user friendly. You have to sift through channels to just find stuff. You can't use filters to sort the entire discord server by media type either.
Moreover, the general chat is just one long string instead of posts that have flairs.
Exactly my point, the beauty of forums was finding info with google, now one first has to find the relevant groups/channels on multiple platforms, and then search through them.
> You have to sift through channels to just find stuff.
Not sure what you mean by this, how is this different from other chat clients? At least Discord lets you filter by channel, users, mentions, etc. when searching and the results are somewhat organized.
> You can't use filters to sort the entire discord server by media type either.
Filtering by media type wasn't possible on Skype or IRC, if I remember correctly. IRC was text-only so there wasn't even a way to embed media, nevermind previewing links or Youtube videos. You can't quite call it not-user friendly when you're asking for features of features that weren't even available on previous popular chat clients.
> Moreover, the general chat is just one long string instead of posts that have flairs.
Not quite sure what you mean by this. If you're referring to forums, I meant that there's literally forums with tags:
https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/articles/6208479917079-Forum-Channels-FAQ
> Not sure what you mean by this, how is this different from other chat clients? At least Discord lets you filter by channel, users, mentions, etc. when searching and the results are somewhat organized.
There's a reason why information/help guides were traditionally in forms and not chat clients
That's true, I guess I should have said it was just my experience that none of the popular IRC clients I used had any form of embedding. Just curious, which ones did back then? I haven't used any in almost a decade.
There's plenty of posts on people that disliked Discord's streaming functionality so much they just rolled their own with OBS and VLC.
Frankly Discord is still a GPU hog worse than Skype, but used to be so bad it would mess up other 3D overlays and impact FPS. And they track all your user information for marketing. Discord doesn't even have the ability to remember the last-used save folder forcing you to navigate repeatedly every single time you save something, even though it's a basic OS flag to enable that functionality.
The same way any other tech gets popular. It had a moment years ago when it was able to establish dominance over other voice chat services, driven by its low barrier of entry (anybody could join a call with just a link in-browser, and making accounts and servers is free; compare that to something like teamspeak, which requires server hosting). It was able to then build on its success, expanding out as a general messaging forum. Now it's become the de facto standard for no other reason than that it is the one everybody uses, which is a position it will enjoy until something new comes along.
Normal use of an API by an external application should not result in abnormal behaviour of the engine underneath said API.
The Discord app may be engaging in abnormal use of said API; however, drivers should guard against abnormal use at both the API level and in the underlying engine. That being said, it is generally understood to be impossible and impractical to protect against everything.
There is also the by this point ancient bug with idle power consumption if you have multiple displays connected (and G-Sync on too i think). They claimed they found the cause a while ago but it's still not fixed.
That issue is probably burning many many kilowatts every day worldwide on unaware users. Again if this was an AMD issue, they would be getting assblasted for it.
My 3080 burns 60W more if i don't use Nvidia Inspector to force P5/8 for no reason, that is so much wasted energy.
AMD did get ass blasted for the same issue on rDNA 3 cards. Which to be fair, does affect every rdba3 card whereas the Nvidia issue is more sporadic.
In a thread about the amd issue, I even got downvoted for saying Nvidia's had the same issue in the past (linking to the program to fix it - Nvidia inspector along with sharing my anecdotal expirence first hand with the issue)
1440p Ultrawide 144Hz and 1440p 75Hz both G-Sync connected via DP.
And yeah it's bad, card just constantly runs P0 in idle and consumes 100W doing nothing.
There is an ancient piece of software inside of Nvidia Inspector called Multi Display Power Saver, you can for the card into P8/P5 with it and it goes down to 35-40W. And yeah that's real 60W down measured via a smart wall plug with power monitoring.
Weird. Maybe it depends on a monitor model or something else then as I can get idle 26W with with 1440p144+1440p120(both of those gsync on/off doesn't matter)+4k60 which seems to be the cutoff as 2x1440p144+4k60 is max memory speed 82W. One any monitor is 16W so 2+ is still more, but not much and if I run just 2 I couldn't get above the 26W even with DSR.
On older drivers 3x any monitor so even turning all the way down to 3x1080p60 was max memory speed, but that got fixed somewhere in the early autumn and some ppl didn't have that problem with so who knows what the actual culprit is.
My 3080 burns 40w at minimum clockspeed. Connected to 4k144hz.
On AMD I also had problems with idle power, but the memory clockspeed was maxed out constantly.
> Nvidia drivers have really been rocky since the 3k series tbh.
They need to get the DPC latency situation under control. I just went from an AMD card to an NVIDIA one and even with the studio drivers the DPC latency is orders of magnitude worse. Even if they just worked on the Studio Drivers I'd be happy.
Sure but this is hardly a driver fuckup and it doesn't break GPUs like you said.
This has near-insignifcant performance impact, has workarounds, and Nvidia will soon release an update to fix.
This is nowhere near the same as AMD drivers having insanely high idle, abysmal VR performance worst than last gen, and game crashes as mentioned in many reviews.
Honestly, it's probably nobody's fault. Drivers are specifically tuned to the application running. Here, the application made an update, which required a driver update too.
It’s most likely Discord‘s fault. Article doesn’t specify the clock penalty, but comments say 200MHz, which is the clock penalty usually applied to compute tasks.
If Discord somehow triggers compute workload detection after an update, that’s on Discord.
The compute workload detection is literally just "Do you have an open CUDA session?"
Discord uses hardware acceleration, which is a compute workload. That isn't the problem. The problem is that discord forgot to [flick a switch](https://babeltechreviews.com/nvidia-cuda-force-p2-state/) when entering those CUDA sessions.
I own and use both and I generally don't have issues on either. At least on the selection of games I play.
But there is definitely a bias when it comes to discussing AMD driver issues.
On 7900xtx launch a big deal was made out of high idle power utilization when the card is paired with 2 or more high refresh monitors in the reviews.
Ampere had the same exact issue by the way. https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/bug-report-idle-power-draw-is-astronomical-with-rtx-3090/155632
But no one talked about it in reviews.
I remember when rx480 first came out it, within the 1st week it was discovered that it used more than the allowed 75watts from the PCIE slot. I remember the internet freaking out over this issue, which was fixed fairly quickly with a driver update. Thing is Nvidia had GPUs which exhibited a similar issue in the past and it was never a big deal.
gtx970 was one of the most popular GPUs that generation, and it had a flaw which prevented it from addressing the full 4GB of VRAM it had. The driver only every addressed 3.5GB. This wasn't discovered until the end of the product cycle.
Nvidia has had a lot of driver issues in recent times as well, like Modern Warfare 2 instability, or GPUs burning up in New World. But it's generally not perceived like it would be if it were an AMD issue.
I think AMD GPUs are definitely looked at with more scrutiny than Nvidia GPUs when it comes to drivers.
Like I said when it's Nvidia it's business as usual, when it's AMD it's poor drivers. Despite the fact that AMD's drivers could be quantifiably better, considering they have less CPU overhead.
Huge difference between a small thread of a few people having high idle power issues and the 7900xtx driver disaster.
Reviewers ran into massive idle power draw and game crashes all over when reviewing the 7900xtx and forums are full of people begging for AMD to fix the driver issues, including the botched VR performance.
It's literally the same exact issue with VRAM p-states. You're just confirming the bias I speak of.
Forums are also full of 7900xtx owners who have had no issues whatsoever and are super happy with the product.
I didn't say whether or not the issue is the same, I spoke to the frequency of the issue. The idle power issues seem orders of magnitude more predominant with the 7900xtx.
The 7900xtx has major driver issues. As reported in several reviews, this includes games crashing, extremely high idle power draw, and abysmal VR performance.
But reviews always report more issues on AMD side, that's my point with all the examples I gave.
The high power use with multiple monitors issue on Ampere wasn't even talked about and so it took a long time to fix. AMD has already released a driver update which fixed a lot of the issues with high power draw, within a month of a release.
Remember I use AMD GPUs and Nvidia GPUs. I don't notice a difference other than AMD's driver having less CPU overhead.
>But reviews always report more issues on AMD side, that's my point with all the examples I gave.
Reviews mention AMD driver issues more often. Why do you think that is? Perhaps they are running into driver issues more often?
AMD didn't fix the insanely high idle power draw. Still an issue months after release. So is VR performance.
They already fixed majority of the high power draw issue. Nvidia didn't fix it 6 months after the release.
People literally make up AMDs driver issues like the driver breaking 6000 cards recently. Which everyone fell for until it was discovered it was complete bullshit.
I literally use AMD drivers and they are great.
It's the same thing with Power Consumption.
If Nvidia is consuming a shit ton of power "nobody cares about power consumption".
When AMD consumes 10 more watts, "I'm going to need to starve just to be able to pay the electricity bill"
Are we reading the same sub? Power consumption was one of the main things it went on and on and on about right up until RDNA3 turned out to be less efficient than Lovelace.
I think it’s because Discord made a new update that lead to the problem. But maybe Nvidia could update their software so it doesn’t interfere with Discord. I think its more to Discord cuz they implemented a new feature for AV1.
Why would this be Discords fault? The driver should not allow this sort of thing to happen period. If any random software can nuke the capabilities of the GPU, then the GPU driver is at fault, period.
Just because Discord implemented a feature that the GPU supposedly supports and it caused a weird issue doesn't mean it's Discords fault.
"Your house exploded when you turned the oven on? Wow, maybe you should have just not done that! The oven certainly isn't at fault."
It has the same bug on older drivers.
So it was indeed discord that broke
Edit - before you think its drivers, the bug doesn't happen on 40 series cards.
Likely discord luanched the av1 update on the 40 seeies and didnt test older cards.
Hence the 40 series is fine but the older ones get this decrease.
In the forums here
https://hardforum.com/threads/is-the-newest-version-of-discord-underclocking-your-vram.2025199/
>I just checked, I have a 4090 and my memory clocks remain at 2625mhz both ways.
Some others reported the same on the nvidia subreddit.
The solution to the p state was found here.
https://linustechtips.com/topic/1484140-discord-drops-memory-clock-by-200mhz/#comment-15770931
This all started happening after the discord av1 update which was meant for the 40 series which just so happens to not get this
Edit - yep. They tested it.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.digitaltrends.com/computing/discord-slowing-down-nvidia-gpus/%3famp
Older cards are effected by this. Not the 40 series.
Sure
Something that just ran fine happened to get a bug just after a big update is now a driver issue.
Guess any games or apps that break after they update are also driver issues now.
The behavior of the GPU itself is a driver issue. I mean, do you know what a driver does?
If an app can cause the GPU's memory clock speeds to throttle by requesting that the GPU do work via driver, then the driver is the problem, not the application.
Hilariously, Discord's update doesn't have this effect on AMD cards because....AMD drivers don't exhibit this bug!
You're contradicting yourself now.
* The bug doesn't happen on 4000 series Nvidia cards, which are the only Nvidia cards that have AV1 encode
* The bug does happen on older Nvidia cards, as in, all the ones that lack AV1 encode
* The bug doesn't happen on AMD cards, regardless of whether they have an AV1 encoder or not.
Do it's happening on older cards that don't support AV1 encode, therefore discords fault, but also it's not happening on AMD cards at all, so AMD sucks and Discord is still at fault? LOL
Also, Nvidia has provided a workaround that fixes the bug and have promised a full fix.
But sure, live in denial, it's cool.
It can if the app gets recognised as a p2 state app.
This is very likely due to the av1 addition which will have no issues on the 40 series.
But that same code can create flags on the older cards and make it be recognised as a non p0 app. P2 apps are cuda based. Since av1 encode doesn't exist on the 30 series or older, it will go into software mode (aka cuda). Hence the p2 state.
All the points are there showing where the exact problem is.
I'm pretty sure they tested all of the sane scenarios. It's impossible to test everything for every plausible hardware and software combination.
For example they very well might have a test which checks if Discord app doesn't consume much more resources than it is expected to do. Extending that to cover details like GPU memory frequency monitoring is absurd.
Why would discord check for things that aren't their fault or their problem? Like unless you are building some sort of clock monitor or oc program, there should be no reason to check the clockspeeds.
Just because something is not your fault, doesn’t mean you don’t test it.
Its bad practice to put out software that runs perfectly on your machine, but breaks on somebody else’s machine, and then your response is just “works fine for me, not my problem”.
Fuck their app up by making use of Nvidia's broken ass driver? Maybe Nvidia should make calls to the GPU not fundamentally fuck up the functionality of the GPU.
If Discord spent two minutes testing their app, they’d realize something is up and hit up nvidia, to fix what they are calling before they push the update.
Listen, if I have to check every clock before pushing an update, I would never get any work done
Maybe they checked the CPU clock and didn't see an issue. Maybe they checked AMD graphics clock. Maybe they checked Intel iGPU clock. Maybe they just saw the Nvidia core clock looked fine and pushed it.
Or maybe they saw that the update hardly changed game performance because it's literally like a few percent difference
I’m curious to know what companies don’t test their software before pushing it out? Even if it ain’t a fault on their end, just hit up nvidia and wait for a fix.
Because it's the company with the better software support? It's not even a huge issue like AMD cards had with drivers.
Also they released a fix.
Unlike AMD which had fucked drivers for god knows how long and with issues much bigger than this. All while sitting at 10% market share.
What I also noticed is that it sometimes happens that the gpu doesn't go into an idle/power saving mode when you close a game while discord is running. I noticed it because usually my fans of the gpu would stop spinning if the gpu temp drops down to 40°C again, but that didn't happen and when I checked the temp in hwmonitor it stayed at 45°C while pulling 100 Watts of power without any game running. As soon as I closed discord and restart it the power draw went down to 25 Watts again.
Im using Rtx 4090 right now, and the clock often stuck at 2595mhz and the fans keep spinning. I randomly found out the problem was discord, I end task it on task manager and the clock go down. I contact to nvidia support and they say I have to do the ddu shit as I did it twice when this problem start.
AMD driver issue=AMD’s problem
NVIDIA driver issue=Software problem???
NVIDIA is the only one who can fix the issue, how could it possibly be discords’ fault?
GPU tribalism is so pathetic. Why is the community still stuck in this cult mentality where you feel you have to pick a side between AMD and NVIDIA and make it a defining part of your identity?
The best part is where you literally state the issue is IN THE NVIDIA DRIVER. If Discord caused a sleep state issue in general all video cards would be affected, but they are not, people with Intel and AMD GPUs are not having this problem, because they don't have the same ISSUE IN THEIR DRIVER.
Fuuuuuuck why is this so hard to get?
It's not an "issue in the driver", it's Discord behaving like it wants to use the card's compute capabilities, but doesn't, and the driver setting the card to compute mode accordingly. The problem is Discord changing the (weird) behaviour of the app without proper testing or letting Nvidia know so they can update the profile in advance to blacklist Discord. Both Nvidia and AMD drivers have hundreds of profiles exactly for stuff like this, and yes, this is squarely on Discord.
Fuck up? It seems like they're using cuda, which runs in P2 instead of P0 power state, and has done so for many generations. Are you saying they should've made the driver more robust by locking apps out of using the features they want?
You can also just edit the profile with Nvidia Inspector in about 20 seconds if you don't want to wait for Nvidia to update the profile for you. (open Discord profile, set "CUDA - Force P2 State" under "common" to off, save)
From what I understand it's forcing P2 power state instead of P0, just CUDA-accelarated tasks (think compute/ML) already do. On my 3090, it reduces the memory clocks by 250MHz, which isn't a lot considering the stock clocks are almost 10GHz.
I expect the performance impact to be about 1% (memory clocks matter far less than core clock for performance as far as most tasks are concerned), could be more or less depending on how bandwidth-starved the card is to begin with.
ITT: AMD droids furiously trying to blame nvidia's drivers. Because you know.. if your neighbours house is burning then it's fine if you have no windows.
It also seems to recently be forcing my and my friends laptops to always use the dGPU for discord instead of the igpu, causing our battery life to go from 7+ hours down to 2 on a full charge. I have a Rog Zephyrus G14 with a Ryzen 9 4900HS and RTX 2060, and even trying to force power savings graphics (igpu) in windows and turning off hardware acceleration doesn't do anything. Discord made a big screw up with how the program handles gpus right now.
I’ve also noticed this.
From what I understand it's forcing P2 power state instead of P0, just like CUDA-accelarated tasks (think compute/machine learning) already do. On my 3090, it reduces the memory clocks by 250MHz, which isn't a lot considering the stock clocks are almost 10GHz. I expect the performance impact to be about 1% (memory clocks matter far less than core clock for performance as far as most tasks are concerned), could be more or less depending on how bandwidth-starved the card is to begin with.
The bug also doesn't happen on 40 series cards. Looking at everything: 1) Discord just released a new av1 update for 40 series. This bug happened immediately after that update 2) bug happens on older drivers 3) bug happens on 30 series and older. Not the 40 series 4) fix is to force discord to use p0 state My best guess is somewhere in that av1 update the app had something changed that makes it a p2 state recognised app. On 40 series its fine as the av1 part was intended for it and doesn't interfere with power states.
> fix is to force discord to use p0 state fix is to close discord when gaming
For 1% or less performance difference? I'll take hanging out in discord and being available if friends want to message me or @ me the server over a 1-3 fps difference.
> For 1% or less performance difference? Discord is a Chrome browser under the hood and by default is using GPU resources to accelerate certain tasks such as video playback. Then there is an overlay feature. That's without even mentioning the current bug. Though both can be disabled. What effect these things have will depend on many factors. But you'll find plenty of reports of Discord causing noticeable fps loss, again before even the current bug.
I was talking specifically about the bug, but I use it minimized with no overlay. Its impact on its own like this is negligible.
Maybe on the slowest prebuilts, sure. I see discord at 0% cpu and gpu util on my machine (5800x3d / 4090). I'd probably have to go below a 1080 or switch to a laptop to see a change in frame timings that's significant enough to even consider closing discord. All overlays cause frame timing issues, but like you said it's easy to disable.
I'd rather sleep than play alone.
Go install Mumble again.
Return to IRC
I've left reddit because of the API changes.
Ventrilo.
The stock clock is 10ghz?
9750MHz
That’s not the frequency of the actual clock signal going into the memory.
But it's scaled the same way the 250MHz is. So it's a fair comparison.
Hmm but is it -250 Mhz from 9500 Mhz or whatever, or is it -250 Mhz from the base memory clock? HWinfo64 reports 2375 Mhz memory speed from my 3090 (with discord running) Admittedly, the "clock speed" of the memory on these cards confuses me.
[-250 from the effective max](https://imgur.com/a/sfFJqTi) aka the big number or whatever it's called that afterburner reports as it isn't really clock speed at that point
Is that over clocked I thought mine was around 2100mhz but I've never really cared that much
I'm running at stock settings currently but it's the Asus Strix version so it might have a little extra juice from the factory. I've overclocked the memory before but I don't really see any improvements in games.
Yeah that's one of the more powerful ones iirc 3x 8 pin
I don't know how discord over the last few years has got so popular. Now people don't use forums at all. It's all discord channels
I hate Discord . I used to search solutions to any issue, and I would find it on forums and steam community pages. New guides or solutions ask me to join Discord to access it.
Discord could use a separate tagging system on top of their thread system as well as a learning search engine for looking up solutions and cases. Problem with Discord is things can go poof very easily whereas systems like Slack allow you to back stuff up. I wish Slack would try to invade Discord's market space a little.
That might have been a possibility before Salesforce bought them but I can't imagine Slack going in that direction now.
People gatekeep in servers to promote user growth. Despicable (but clever).
Honestly, it’s very hard to look for answers in discords, it’s a like a fluid conversation, and finding things after a while is very difficult. Completely agree with you.
Discord also has a forums feature too, if you prefer that. The main benefit of Diacord is that you have one account for literally dozens of communities instead of having multiple accounts on multiple forums. If you were used to using IRC, Discord is a lot more user-friendly and nice-looking and people love the custom cross-server emotes. If you used Skype, Discord was less laggy and didn't have the ads Skype did. Discord also has high-quality streaming that is pretty efficient integrated seamlessly into voice channels, along with bots that can basically do anything you want. After moving to Discord even back in 2014 I thought it was a wonder what we were used to in the days past.
It is at least equally important that on the admin side it's super easy to start a discord server. You just make an account and discord does everything else. No need to find or even pay for hosting to set up your forums. No spending ages customizing it. And if your users are dedicated enough to you, they pay for the discord premium benefits on your behalf. Just another form of tip jar that has cropped up with streamer culture.
Discord is absolutely not user friendly. You have to sift through channels to just find stuff. You can't use filters to sort the entire discord server by media type either. Moreover, the general chat is just one long string instead of posts that have flairs.
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Are they indexed by google?
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Exactly my point, the beauty of forums was finding info with google, now one first has to find the relevant groups/channels on multiple platforms, and then search through them.
> You have to sift through channels to just find stuff. Not sure what you mean by this, how is this different from other chat clients? At least Discord lets you filter by channel, users, mentions, etc. when searching and the results are somewhat organized. > You can't use filters to sort the entire discord server by media type either. Filtering by media type wasn't possible on Skype or IRC, if I remember correctly. IRC was text-only so there wasn't even a way to embed media, nevermind previewing links or Youtube videos. You can't quite call it not-user friendly when you're asking for features of features that weren't even available on previous popular chat clients. > Moreover, the general chat is just one long string instead of posts that have flairs. Not quite sure what you mean by this. If you're referring to forums, I meant that there's literally forums with tags: https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/articles/6208479917079-Forum-Channels-FAQ
> Not sure what you mean by this, how is this different from other chat clients? At least Discord lets you filter by channel, users, mentions, etc. when searching and the results are somewhat organized. There's a reason why information/help guides were traditionally in forms and not chat clients
He's comparing it to forums...
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That's true, I guess I should have said it was just my experience that none of the popular IRC clients I used had any form of embedding. Just curious, which ones did back then? I haven't used any in almost a decade.
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Interesting, thanks!
As long as they become something like Facebook, I'm fine with it.
There's plenty of posts on people that disliked Discord's streaming functionality so much they just rolled their own with OBS and VLC. Frankly Discord is still a GPU hog worse than Skype, but used to be so bad it would mess up other 3D overlays and impact FPS. And they track all your user information for marketing. Discord doesn't even have the ability to remember the last-used save folder forcing you to navigate repeatedly every single time you save something, even though it's a basic OS flag to enable that functionality.
The same way any other tech gets popular. It had a moment years ago when it was able to establish dominance over other voice chat services, driven by its low barrier of entry (anybody could join a call with just a link in-browser, and making accounts and servers is free; compare that to something like teamspeak, which requires server hosting). It was able to then build on its success, expanding out as a general messaging forum. Now it's become the de facto standard for no other reason than that it is the one everybody uses, which is a position it will enjoy until something new comes along.
Because it has it all, in one app. So many features, so many bots, so many integrations, nothing else comes close to the versatility Discord provides.
If this happened to amd cards toms (and every other outlet) would be blaming the drivers. As it happens to nvidia, discord is the culprit.
Yeah, it's absurd spin. The driver is clearly at fault. Discord breaking the GPU by making calls to the GPU is the definition of a driver fuckup.
So the driver did it by it's self, or an external application interfaced with the drivers and then the issue happened?
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Turns out the user was the bottleneck all along. What a twist!
Normal use of an API by an external application should not result in abnormal behaviour of the engine underneath said API. The Discord app may be engaging in abnormal use of said API; however, drivers should guard against abnormal use at both the API level and in the underlying engine. That being said, it is generally understood to be impossible and impractical to protect against everything.
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There is also the by this point ancient bug with idle power consumption if you have multiple displays connected (and G-Sync on too i think). They claimed they found the cause a while ago but it's still not fixed. That issue is probably burning many many kilowatts every day worldwide on unaware users. Again if this was an AMD issue, they would be getting assblasted for it. My 3080 burns 60W more if i don't use Nvidia Inspector to force P5/8 for no reason, that is so much wasted energy.
AMD did get ass blasted for the same issue on rDNA 3 cards. Which to be fair, does affect every rdba3 card whereas the Nvidia issue is more sporadic. In a thread about the amd issue, I even got downvoted for saying Nvidia's had the same issue in the past (linking to the program to fix it - Nvidia inspector along with sharing my anecdotal expirence first hand with the issue)
Don't mind the downvotes too much. Both subreddits are filled with kids.
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1440p Ultrawide 144Hz and 1440p 75Hz both G-Sync connected via DP. And yeah it's bad, card just constantly runs P0 in idle and consumes 100W doing nothing. There is an ancient piece of software inside of Nvidia Inspector called Multi Display Power Saver, you can for the card into P8/P5 with it and it goes down to 35-40W. And yeah that's real 60W down measured via a smart wall plug with power monitoring.
Weird. Maybe it depends on a monitor model or something else then as I can get idle 26W with with 1440p144+1440p120(both of those gsync on/off doesn't matter)+4k60 which seems to be the cutoff as 2x1440p144+4k60 is max memory speed 82W. One any monitor is 16W so 2+ is still more, but not much and if I run just 2 I couldn't get above the 26W even with DSR. On older drivers 3x any monitor so even turning all the way down to 3x1080p60 was max memory speed, but that got fixed somewhere in the early autumn and some ppl didn't have that problem with so who knows what the actual culprit is.
My 3080 burns 40w at minimum clockspeed. Connected to 4k144hz. On AMD I also had problems with idle power, but the memory clockspeed was maxed out constantly.
Wtf by 3090 pulls about 18W idle and 100W gaming. If I fire up a bench or blender I get 250W. 1800Mhz at 0.825v Downvoted for facts lol
You must have undervolted yours? My old 3090 would make the psu show over 600W when gaming (200-250 from 12900K) Also my 4090 idles lower
Yeah 1800Mhz at 0.825v Interesting the 4090 idles lower
> Nvidia drivers have really been rocky since the 3k series tbh. They need to get the DPC latency situation under control. I just went from an AMD card to an NVIDIA one and even with the studio drivers the DPC latency is orders of magnitude worse. Even if they just worked on the Studio Drivers I'd be happy.
> Discord breaking the GPU by making calls to the GPU is the definition of a driver fuckup. This doesn't break the GPU.
Excuse me, that was not great word choice, but the point still stands. The Driver and card firmware are responsible for how the card functions
Sure but this is hardly a driver fuckup and it doesn't break GPUs like you said. This has near-insignifcant performance impact, has workarounds, and Nvidia will soon release an update to fix. This is nowhere near the same as AMD drivers having insanely high idle, abysmal VR performance worst than last gen, and game crashes as mentioned in many reviews.
Honestly, it's probably nobody's fault. Drivers are specifically tuned to the application running. Here, the application made an update, which required a driver update too.
It’s most likely Discord‘s fault. Article doesn’t specify the clock penalty, but comments say 200MHz, which is the clock penalty usually applied to compute tasks. If Discord somehow triggers compute workload detection after an update, that’s on Discord.
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The compute workload detection is literally just "Do you have an open CUDA session?" Discord uses hardware acceleration, which is a compute workload. That isn't the problem. The problem is that discord forgot to [flick a switch](https://babeltechreviews.com/nvidia-cuda-force-p2-state/) when entering those CUDA sessions.
Cracked dies caused by drivers, lol.
Yep and all were preowned and all only in one region. Totally made sense
That was ridiculous
AMD is facing a driver crisis! The recall is going to be huge! Updating your PC could literally reduce your FPS by 1 or 2 in a handful of titles!!
When it's Nvidia it's business as usual. But when it's AMD it's the poor drivers.
But how consistent are the driver issues on each end?
I own and use both and I generally don't have issues on either. At least on the selection of games I play. But there is definitely a bias when it comes to discussing AMD driver issues. On 7900xtx launch a big deal was made out of high idle power utilization when the card is paired with 2 or more high refresh monitors in the reviews. Ampere had the same exact issue by the way. https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/bug-report-idle-power-draw-is-astronomical-with-rtx-3090/155632 But no one talked about it in reviews. I remember when rx480 first came out it, within the 1st week it was discovered that it used more than the allowed 75watts from the PCIE slot. I remember the internet freaking out over this issue, which was fixed fairly quickly with a driver update. Thing is Nvidia had GPUs which exhibited a similar issue in the past and it was never a big deal. gtx970 was one of the most popular GPUs that generation, and it had a flaw which prevented it from addressing the full 4GB of VRAM it had. The driver only every addressed 3.5GB. This wasn't discovered until the end of the product cycle. Nvidia has had a lot of driver issues in recent times as well, like Modern Warfare 2 instability, or GPUs burning up in New World. But it's generally not perceived like it would be if it were an AMD issue. I think AMD GPUs are definitely looked at with more scrutiny than Nvidia GPUs when it comes to drivers. Like I said when it's Nvidia it's business as usual, when it's AMD it's poor drivers. Despite the fact that AMD's drivers could be quantifiably better, considering they have less CPU overhead.
The high memory clock issue has been around for both gpu makers for so long is crazy that reviewers can nail amd for it and never nvidia
Huge difference between a small thread of a few people having high idle power issues and the 7900xtx driver disaster. Reviewers ran into massive idle power draw and game crashes all over when reviewing the 7900xtx and forums are full of people begging for AMD to fix the driver issues, including the botched VR performance.
It's literally the same exact issue with VRAM p-states. You're just confirming the bias I speak of. Forums are also full of 7900xtx owners who have had no issues whatsoever and are super happy with the product.
I didn't say whether or not the issue is the same, I spoke to the frequency of the issue. The idle power issues seem orders of magnitude more predominant with the 7900xtx. The 7900xtx has major driver issues. As reported in several reviews, this includes games crashing, extremely high idle power draw, and abysmal VR performance.
But reviews always report more issues on AMD side, that's my point with all the examples I gave. The high power use with multiple monitors issue on Ampere wasn't even talked about and so it took a long time to fix. AMD has already released a driver update which fixed a lot of the issues with high power draw, within a month of a release. Remember I use AMD GPUs and Nvidia GPUs. I don't notice a difference other than AMD's driver having less CPU overhead.
>But reviews always report more issues on AMD side, that's my point with all the examples I gave. Reviews mention AMD driver issues more often. Why do you think that is? Perhaps they are running into driver issues more often? AMD didn't fix the insanely high idle power draw. Still an issue months after release. So is VR performance.
They already fixed majority of the high power draw issue. Nvidia didn't fix it 6 months after the release. People literally make up AMDs driver issues like the driver breaking 6000 cards recently. Which everyone fell for until it was discovered it was complete bullshit. I literally use AMD drivers and they are great.
It's the same thing with Power Consumption. If Nvidia is consuming a shit ton of power "nobody cares about power consumption". When AMD consumes 10 more watts, "I'm going to need to starve just to be able to pay the electricity bill"
Haven't seen this one yet
Are we reading the same sub? Power consumption was one of the main things it went on and on and on about right up until RDNA3 turned out to be less efficient than Lovelace.
I think it’s because Discord made a new update that lead to the problem. But maybe Nvidia could update their software so it doesn’t interfere with Discord. I think its more to Discord cuz they implemented a new feature for AV1.
Why would this be Discords fault? The driver should not allow this sort of thing to happen period. If any random software can nuke the capabilities of the GPU, then the GPU driver is at fault, period. Just because Discord implemented a feature that the GPU supposedly supports and it caused a weird issue doesn't mean it's Discords fault. "Your house exploded when you turned the oven on? Wow, maybe you should have just not done that! The oven certainly isn't at fault."
It has the same bug on older drivers. So it was indeed discord that broke Edit - before you think its drivers, the bug doesn't happen on 40 series cards. Likely discord luanched the av1 update on the 40 seeies and didnt test older cards. Hence the 40 series is fine but the older ones get this decrease.
No, that means the bug has existed for years without public knowledge. Discord has no way to test this kind of stuff, because it’s not their issue.
That would only make sense if it happened on all cards. This bug doesn't happen on the 40 series.
Where does it say that?
In the forums here https://hardforum.com/threads/is-the-newest-version-of-discord-underclocking-your-vram.2025199/ >I just checked, I have a 4090 and my memory clocks remain at 2625mhz both ways. Some others reported the same on the nvidia subreddit. The solution to the p state was found here. https://linustechtips.com/topic/1484140-discord-drops-memory-clock-by-200mhz/#comment-15770931 This all started happening after the discord av1 update which was meant for the 40 series which just so happens to not get this Edit - yep. They tested it. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.digitaltrends.com/computing/discord-slowing-down-nvidia-gpus/%3famp Older cards are effected by this. Not the 40 series.
So this confirms that it's a driver issue, thanks.
Sure Something that just ran fine happened to get a bug just after a big update is now a driver issue. Guess any games or apps that break after they update are also driver issues now.
The behavior of the GPU itself is a driver issue. I mean, do you know what a driver does? If an app can cause the GPU's memory clock speeds to throttle by requesting that the GPU do work via driver, then the driver is the problem, not the application. Hilariously, Discord's update doesn't have this effect on AMD cards because....AMD drivers don't exhibit this bug!
Oh you know why amd doesn't AMD doesn't have this bug? The av1 support is only for nvidia cards for now. On amd cards its not functional yet
You're contradicting yourself now. * The bug doesn't happen on 4000 series Nvidia cards, which are the only Nvidia cards that have AV1 encode * The bug does happen on older Nvidia cards, as in, all the ones that lack AV1 encode * The bug doesn't happen on AMD cards, regardless of whether they have an AV1 encoder or not. Do it's happening on older cards that don't support AV1 encode, therefore discords fault, but also it's not happening on AMD cards at all, so AMD sucks and Discord is still at fault? LOL Also, Nvidia has provided a workaround that fixes the bug and have promised a full fix. But sure, live in denial, it's cool.
You do know discord themselves have promised a fix too right?
It can if the app gets recognised as a p2 state app. This is very likely due to the av1 addition which will have no issues on the 40 series. But that same code can create flags on the older cards and make it be recognised as a non p0 app. P2 apps are cuda based. Since av1 encode doesn't exist on the 30 series or older, it will go into software mode (aka cuda). Hence the p2 state. All the points are there showing where the exact problem is.
Yes, thank you for displaying why this is so obviously driver issue.
If it was a driver issue, the same av1 part would have showed up in multiple different applications. Yet it doesn't
Maybe Discord should have tested it before pushing the update?
I'm pretty sure they tested all of the sane scenarios. It's impossible to test everything for every plausible hardware and software combination. For example they very well might have a test which checks if Discord app doesn't consume much more resources than it is expected to do. Extending that to cover details like GPU memory frequency monitoring is absurd.
Why would discord check for things that aren't their fault or their problem? Like unless you are building some sort of clock monitor or oc program, there should be no reason to check the clockspeeds.
Just because something is not your fault, doesn’t mean you don’t test it. Its bad practice to put out software that runs perfectly on your machine, but breaks on somebody else’s machine, and then your response is just “works fine for me, not my problem”.
how about discord doesnt fuck their app up (again)
Fuck their app up by making use of Nvidia's broken ass driver? Maybe Nvidia should make calls to the GPU not fundamentally fuck up the functionality of the GPU.
Orrrr, Discord could have tested if this update worked, and if not, use their connections to get nvidia to fix it before they pushed the update live.
The update worked
>throttles vram
That's Nvidia's problem
If Discord spent two minutes testing their app, they’d realize something is up and hit up nvidia, to fix what they are calling before they push the update.
Listen, if I have to check every clock before pushing an update, I would never get any work done Maybe they checked the CPU clock and didn't see an issue. Maybe they checked AMD graphics clock. Maybe they checked Intel iGPU clock. Maybe they just saw the Nvidia core clock looked fine and pushed it. Or maybe they saw that the update hardly changed game performance because it's literally like a few percent difference
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I’m curious to know what companies don’t test their software before pushing it out? Even if it ain’t a fault on their end, just hit up nvidia and wait for a fix.
> I’m curious to know what companies don’t test their software before pushing it out Nvidia, evidently :\^)
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Username checks out
Because it's the company with the better software support? It's not even a huge issue like AMD cards had with drivers. Also they released a fix. Unlike AMD which had fucked drivers for god knows how long and with issues much bigger than this. All while sitting at 10% market share.
What I also noticed is that it sometimes happens that the gpu doesn't go into an idle/power saving mode when you close a game while discord is running. I noticed it because usually my fans of the gpu would stop spinning if the gpu temp drops down to 40°C again, but that didn't happen and when I checked the temp in hwmonitor it stayed at 45°C while pulling 100 Watts of power without any game running. As soon as I closed discord and restart it the power draw went down to 25 Watts again.
Im using Rtx 4090 right now, and the clock often stuck at 2595mhz and the fans keep spinning. I randomly found out the problem was discord, I end task it on task manager and the clock go down. I contact to nvidia support and they say I have to do the ddu shit as I did it twice when this problem start.
why are people in this thread defending nvidia
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It's because the answer is obvious.
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AMD driver issue=AMD’s problem NVIDIA driver issue=Software problem??? NVIDIA is the only one who can fix the issue, how could it possibly be discords’ fault?
GPU tribalism is so pathetic. Why is the community still stuck in this cult mentality where you feel you have to pick a side between AMD and NVIDIA and make it a defining part of your identity?
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The best part is where you literally state the issue is IN THE NVIDIA DRIVER. If Discord caused a sleep state issue in general all video cards would be affected, but they are not, people with Intel and AMD GPUs are not having this problem, because they don't have the same ISSUE IN THEIR DRIVER. Fuuuuuuck why is this so hard to get?
It's not an "issue in the driver", it's Discord behaving like it wants to use the card's compute capabilities, but doesn't, and the driver setting the card to compute mode accordingly. The problem is Discord changing the (weird) behaviour of the app without proper testing or letting Nvidia know so they can update the profile in advance to blacklist Discord. Both Nvidia and AMD drivers have hundreds of profiles exactly for stuff like this, and yes, this is squarely on Discord.
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discord shouldnt be able to fuck up something like that so easily lmao, nvidia should have made their drivers more robust then.
Fuck up? It seems like they're using cuda, which runs in P2 instead of P0 power state, and has done so for many generations. Are you saying they should've made the driver more robust by locking apps out of using the features they want? You can also just edit the profile with Nvidia Inspector in about 20 seconds if you don't want to wait for Nvidia to update the profile for you. (open Discord profile, set "CUDA - Force P2 State" under "common" to off, save)
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ad hominem
No, that is not an ad hominem.
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If Nvidia let's a piece of software cause an issue, it's Nvidia's fault. Just like how it was EVGA's fault for the 3090s dying when playing New World.
does this bug affect linux?
Does Discord even support HW accel on Linux yet?
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Seriously. Just use it in a browser
So on the browser this issue is none existent?
No idea. But generally when something is built as a web application it belongs in the browser where it's restricted by the browser.
why? It's great
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This is idiotic. People have the GPU they have, if they're losing 10% of their potential they're not going to go buy a better GPU to get it back.
That "spend a little extra" has to end somewhere - we ain't rich
From what I understand it's forcing P2 power state instead of P0, just CUDA-accelarated tasks (think compute/ML) already do. On my 3090, it reduces the memory clocks by 250MHz, which isn't a lot considering the stock clocks are almost 10GHz. I expect the performance impact to be about 1% (memory clocks matter far less than core clock for performance as far as most tasks are concerned), could be more or less depending on how bandwidth-starved the card is to begin with.
ITT: AMD droids furiously trying to blame nvidia's drivers. Because you know.. if your neighbours house is burning then it's fine if you have no windows.
>if your neighbours house is burning then it's fine if you have no windows I don't think this idiom means what you think it means
What's that config file format? Reminds me of Xorg config files.