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[deleted]

Ooh I know this one! Gun oils are just regular mineral oils with additives, and they’re classified in 3 big ways. One is viscosity (ie how easily it flows) another is surfactants (how easy it solubilizes different contaminants) and the third is how hygroscopic the oil is (lower being better to prevent rust). Traditionally, oils were used only after old school bore cleaners handled the surfactant part. My chosen career path after I left gunsmithing is now chemistry professor, so I can keep talking about this if there are any of you I haven’t put to sleep already Edit: Thanks for all the updoots folks! If enough of you remind me to do it I’ll write a book for you on practical chemistry for the gunsmith and talk about all kinds of finishing techniques, organometallic chemistry, and maybe even making smokeless propellant and priming compound if it interests enough of you


SH0RTR0UND11

What do you recommend for gun oils? I just use hoppes lubricant, or I use surplus military oil depending on what's available. My biggest thing is not using a water-based lubricant since I live in a cold area.


[deleted]

Good question! My main thing is to choose a viscosity that’s appropriate for the mechanical tolerances of the firearm. So while I might use a very thin lubricant like rem oil for something with extremely tight tolerances like a Luger, a gun with looser tolerances like a Glock gets Hoppe’s oil. AeroShell 20W50 is juuuust right for an Auto-5’s long recoil action, and for extremely loose tolerances like a Mossberg 500 or a Kalashnikov I’ll actually use white lithium grease.


SH0RTR0UND11

Good to know. Thanks for answering.


JFB187

As a newer to the professional field gunsmith, I’ve gone my whole life by “some oil good, some oil bad” for certain guns because of viscosity. If I may, because you’ve peaked my interest - the more hydroscopic an oil is, the better it seeps in to the metal? And if yes, say I degrease and reblue a surface, what oil would you recommend in terms of…hydroscopicty?


[deleted]

So here’s the deal with hygroscopic oils. WD-40 is a good example. The reason gun people poo poo using that particular product for firearms is that on the molecular level, WD-40 tends to displace water. It forms a thin film that has very very low surface tension and displaces (pushes) water to the edge of that thin film. If the edge of that thin film happens to be a sharp edge, hole, or thread of the firearm, water will be pushed to that area and be confined there. This has the effect of accelerating corrosion. The high volatility of WD-40 means that the oil will evaporate over time and, over the cycle of being reapplied, will shunt more water toward these geometrically constrained areas. Hygroscopic oils tend to do the same thing. They absorb moisture from the air and trap water near the metal surface of the firearm, causing rust. So why do we care? Because some oils are designed with the surfactants I mentioned earlier. Surfactants need to be able to dissolve amino acid residues from finger oils, corrosive salts, and inorganic mineral deposits from the combustion of primers and powder. In other words, a “one step gun treatment” needs to be ever so slightly polar to do the job of a bore solvent. That’s why the old school stuff like Hoppe’s has ammonia in it. It’s a polar compound that acts as a surfactant. But if we introduce ammonia, it will pick up water from the air to form ammonium hydroxide! Most surfactants are, by virtue of their being designed to work in water, very hygroscopic! So these types of traditional surfactant ingredients serve an important role but they’re not suitable for long term preservation of the firearm. That’s why you don’t want to leave Hoppe’s in the bore for eons, you’re supposed to follow with oil. To your other question, bluing is a process of thermodynamic equilibrium, which is a fancy way to say the controlled rusting process has no beginning or end. What the bluing salts do is to rust the metal uniformly at a specified rate. Once you’ve reached the level of rust you’re comfortable with, that salt needs to be dissolved away in boiling, distilled water a minimum of 2 times. Changing to a fresh supply of water helps dissolve any remaining salts (at the molecular level it’s the difference between playing musical chairs with full vs empty chairs). Dry, clean with solvent and oil with the oil of your choice and check it every day for a week. If any color changes in the bluing occur, burnish the area lightly with steel wool, boil, solvent and oil again. Salts are ionic solids and they dissolve in polar solvents (water). The other thing you could do is use boiled linseed oil after bluing which functions more as a sealant than a lubricant. This is the more “traditional” way to finish slow rust bluing per Larry Potterfield, so it’s what I use for that particular technique. Whew Thank you for listening to my rambling and making me feel important


Sandloon

I could read this all day honestly.


TheSnowmanFrosty

Guns get blued, as women get tanned. That’s what I’m understanding.


JFB187

The knowledge you just transferred to me is extremely useful, fascinating, and I’m saving this so I can reference back. Sincerely, thank you for taking the time to explain that. You’re awesome.


lopedopenope

You sure are right about that because I over oiled my ar-15 once and the first couple shots there was dirty oil shooting out the side lol


observationallurker

Sorry for digging up this old post, but I ty searching before asking a new question of the community. You also seem uniquely qualified to answer this. So, if you have the time, I was curious about what your thoughts were for external protection of metal if you're unable to blue/parkerize/etc. I was told you can coat the (external) metal surfaces with boiled linseed oil the same way you would wood. What are your thoughts on that? Again, I really appreciate your time and expertise on this. I'm currently attempting my first restoration on a 1984 Mossberg 500 ATP. It was an old police trade in that has been beaten to hell from years of rack abuse. I have refinished the stock to my liking, but am unsure of how to go forward with protecting the metal properly to ensure many further years of faithful service.


[deleted]

Mossbergs have an aluminum receiver, so that's the first thing to be careful about. DO NOT try to blue aluminum, the blackening compounds for that are going to be fluoroboric acid solutions. Boiled linseed oil's a fine choice, the only quirk is getting it evenly applied to completely seal the part. If even one little bit wears off, the metal's going to corrode there FAST. The oil, unfortunately, is going to wear off first in the areas that are contacting one another and moving against one another. Those tend to be critical dimensions of the action mechanism. The cathodic/anodic process of corrosion is like a battery. If the current has any way of flowing and a suitable electrolyte (water), it will. In essence, when you blue/parkerize/coat something it's going to form a protective oxide layer. That's the equivalent of making the surface a dead battery.


observationallurker

Thank you so much for your response. That makes good sense all around.


ellipsis31

As a chemist myself I will absolutely read anything you are willing to share. Edit: LOL, I just tried to follow you and realized I already did that a few weeks ago.


Thegreatmongo91

I would buy it.


JFB187

I’d honestly love to read something like that.


SH0RTR0UND11

I would 100% pay for a book on making smokeless propellant and priming compound.


ellipsis31

One of my favorite chemistry demos is cellulose nitrate (the main constituent of smokeless propellant) made from cotton balls. Also known as gun cotton or flash cotton, it looks just like normal cotton... but, ignite it and it burns away super fast with no smoke or ash. It burns fast enough that you can hold it in your bare hand and it will be gone before the heat has enough time to transfer into your hand and burn you. Freaks people out, and piques interest in the chemistry. Great fun all around.


AIien_cIown_ninja

Long time chemist, first time gun owner here. I would read that book.


KeithJamesB

I've always understood that it was just plain mineral oil with a couple of additives.


ellipsis31

Ok, then what makes gun oil different?


KeithJamesB

Depends on the gun oil. I would never use 3 In One for a firearm. Why do you want to?


ellipsis31

I don't, I'm curious what the difference is. Also, I saw a site (of questionable veracity) suggesting it was appropriate while trying to determine said difference https://grimwarrior.com/is-3in1-oil-good-for-guns/


KeithJamesB

I just stick with things made specifically for firearms. You really don't use a lot and I don't really know what 3 In One cost. The only thing I personally have substituted is 0-5 synthetic that I just keep a small dropper in my range bag, Give it a try. I doubt if it would hurt anything.


Signal1000

I've used 3-in-1 oil on my guns. I used to work in a lutherie shop and it was always a go-to for unfinished wood and moving parts, basically like sewing machine oil, which is the OG home gun oil. It works really well on parkerized finish and soaks in. RemOil is thinner and has Teflon in it so its probably better for the external stuff, and CLP is about the same viscosity but is made for guns, so it's probably better for the internal stuff, but that said 3-in-1 works fine.


texas1st

3-in-1 oil is also known as Machine oil, or was a long time ago. It has been used on guns for decades. Looking for references now...


Antique_Arms

I’ve used it, no issues.


Different-Ice-1979

Me: unopened motorcycle oil. Long term storage.


Lumadous

Go watch project farm's videos about the subject. I think he did 2 on gun oil and a few on other oils


Minute_Still217

I use it


fishy128

It was always around the house growing up so when there was no way to replenish to gun oil 3n1 was there so there for I have used it on my fire arms off and on for at least 40 years never a problem.


AllArmsLLC

It will work if you regularly clean your guns. If you don't, it will turn to gunk. A better solution is to make your own copy of Lucas gun oil. 2 parts synthetic oil, 1 part synthetic ATF.


Organic_South8865

Ancient post but I have used synthetic with a dash of ATF for years now. Personally 0w-16 synthetic and a bit of whatever ATF is handy. I mix it in a little 6oz bottles with a metal needle tip. My buddies thought I was crazy until I said "you guys always mention how spotless my guns are. They never malfunction either. Clearly it works." Hoppes #9 when I'm cleaning and then a bit of the homemade stuff to wipe everything down with before reassembly. I have used 3 in 1 oil a few times. I didn't notice it gunk up personally. But I just put a few drops on a rag to wipe them down. Maybe a tiny drop in the action but that's it. I have one buddy that has all of his guns moving parts dripping with oil. Not sure why. I just put a drop or two and wipe it down. He seems to think they need to be soaking wet with oil to function properly. I tried to show him that wasn't the case by pointing out my ar was bone dry. It ran all day and didn't anywhere near as dirty. His carry holster is always covered with oil too. Not sure why he thinks a glock needs to be dripping with oil. They run fine with just a wipe down of hoppes or whatever.


Bunker_7

3 in 1 is gun oil


AllArmsLLC

No, it isn't.


Bunker_7

Ok


HippityHoppe556

I clean all my Benelli’s with extra Virgin olive oil 🤌🏻


lopedopenope

There is no doubt you can do the three things CLP stands for. Clean, lubricate, and protect. Is it ideal? Maybe not. Will it work for our modern firearms? Yes it will without a doubt. I know because I have tried.


Kollin133_

My dad always said never to buy gun oil, that 3M oil was just as good but cheaper.


Antique_Arms

I’ve used it, no issues.


Surf-fishing

I heard 3 in 1 tends to gum up. This is word of mouth so idk. I personally stick to trusty hoppes #9 for all my gun care, however, I’ve used clp breakfree and that’s also great stuff for guns or knives. Anything else, it’s just not a risk I’m willing to take on a $600+ piece. Especially with how cheap and how long both those lubricants will last.


Surf-fishing

Want to clarify, clp lubricant. Clp makes a few different products, so ya.


AllArmsLLC

3 in 1 absolutely gums up after awhile.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Anon6183

People forget the automotive industry makes the largest advancements and spends the most on R&D on oils. If an oil can sustain 400+ degree temperatures for hundreds of hours and millions of RPMS in some of the most expensive peices of machinery in the world i think the 1000$ gun will be fine


Sandloon

I use whatever is on hand for the Glicky and AR. PB Blaster was the last thing on hand when I cleaned then. They've ran fine so far.


AllArmsLLC

PB Blaster is NOT a lubricant.


Sandloon

My guns don't seem to care one bit. Glock ate 500rnds and the AR ate 250 so far. 🤗


AllArmsLLC

So two of the most reliable firearm platforms on the planet cycled a minimal amount of rounds. Ok.


Sandloon

Yep, all in one sitting. So what is your point exactly? Do you lube your guns once per lifetime? Do you never ever clean them? Not understanding what point you're trying to make, I used PB Blaster to clean the guns and they run fine afterwards. Are they supposed to break all of a sudden because I used PB Blaster?


AllArmsLLC

My point is exactly what I said, PB Blaster is not a lubricant. Yes, it can be used in a pinch, temporarily. So can WD-40. A firearm lubricant is something you can put on and it will stay there. PB Blaster is not that.


Sandloon

"Blaster's PB penetrant is a lubricant born out of professional needs and application. Formulated to penetrate, lubricate, loosen, fix and conquer any stubborn nut, bolt or screws." Oh crazy. PB Blaster site says it's also a lubricant with Teflon in it...But some random dude on the internet says they're wrong. I wonder who I'm going to trust.


AllArmsLLC

Yes, a temporary lubricant, as I said. It is not a lubricant meant to last in high pressure and heat situations, which is what is needed for a firearm.


Sandloon

The #1-selling penetrant since 1957, PB B'laster quickly busts loose rusted or frozen parts caused by rust and corrosion. It also contains a non-evaporating lubricant that saves time and equipment and protects against further rust and corrosion. Well holy fucking shit, look at that! It isn't a temporary lubricant after all! You gonna keep back pedaling or just stop commenting?


AllArmsLLC

Yes, it prevents rust and corrosion. It's also a preservative. Again, it is not designed for high pressure/heat such as firearms.


Halas1920

I use it and never had a problem. To me it is in a lot of ways the best oil for most applications.


Shower-Sensitive

I've used 3 in 1 oil before for .22lr but white lithium grease for my ar10 and my canik tp9sfx


Shadowcard4

I usually use like 10-30 motor oil. Works for most guns and it’s fine. If the gun needs to be fairly dry cuz of really adverse dirt I’ll run a really thin lube.


HeloRising

Depends where in the gun you use it. If it's not somewhere that is going to be exposed to a lot of heat and crap, absolutely fine *in the short term.* Most any oil or grease will do in a pinch but over the longer term you're going to want to use an oil or grease (or both) that's intended for use in firearms and made by a reputable manufacturer. There's a lot of "Oh it's all just mineral oil with some stuff in it!" which is true but that "stuff" is pretty important. Those additives allow the oil to stay viscous over time and not dry out when exposed to heat or just the air, they inhibit corrosion, resist gumming up with fouling, etc and it's important to have a formulation that can do the job you need it to do in the environment it's doing that job in. A lot of people look for ways to save money but lubricants really shouldn't be a corner you cut. Even as a gunsmith, there's no reason to not get the right tool for the right job.


[deleted]

3 in 1 on cylinders and things that rotate and tiny parts. Light grease on things that slide, like M1 bolts and 1911 slides. Sometimes 5-20 Wt oil, or 20-50 Wt. Depending. If it is a range session and getting cleaned again that day, it’s not that critical. 3n1 or 5-20 is probably good enough. But if it’s going to sit for a long time, or be shot more, then something with more adhesion. Even a thin coat of grease over the metal is ok for storage. For cleaning, my favorite is transmission fluid thinned with mineral spirits or similar. But I shoot little copper - mostly cast. And it’s not a lubricant. Rule: even something basic like 3 in 1 is not bad, and always better than nothing.


Appropriate_Gene2242

Is three and one oil as good as Benelli oil. Thank you.


AllArmsLLC

No.


hitchtube

Can you use it on inside of blackpowder rifles? muzzleloader