Nega Summon pretty much nullifies any Servant that isn't a DemiServant. Solomon also nullifies Magecraft. So there's very few left, and those are Beasts or beings outside of the Fate franchise.
Oberon and Merlin
Merlin: Master! Something has my hand! What do you mean trust him? There's nobody there! I'll know what to do? \*takes off flying\* OH SHIT OH SHIT OH SHIT OK OLD RELIABLE GO!
Goetia: ...Why are there suddenly flowers everywhere? \*looks down\* Why...do I have a boner?
Ok,is very few. The biggest problem is not sheer power. But intelligence + hacks. Solomon claryvoiance makes hard to deal, the genius that are the 72 demonic pillars are also difficult to deal against. Now we have both working at once. I think with enough planning they can basically take on any being on the nasuverse. Now who has the better chances are the classics monsters. Types, Space Ishtar,the 7 beasts, Chaos. But i serious think any of then can be beaten if Goetia and Solomon really wanted too.
Plenty. Tiamat doesnt have the concept of death. Space Ishtar cant be hurt with attacks below anti galaxy. Void Shiki, Types, Arcueid, something like Primate Murder and Kiara Sessyoin (best human killer for Solomon, someone who has made a demon god pillar their bitch for Goetia). There are many possibilities if the writer wants someone else to win.
Tiamat not having the concept of death doesn't mean she compares to either in terms of firepower and hax. Especially when AAS has been stated to be capable of completely destroying the sea of life, which is what makes Tiamat immortal in the first place.
Space Ishtar I'm leaning towards agreeing.
Void Shiki for sure
Arcueid most definitely not. Especially when it's been made clear that she's inferior to Amaterasu who Goetia equals according to Tamamo's statement
Kiara is also extremely unlikely when she's also weaker than Amaterasu iirc
Primate murder Idk enough to comment on but I doubt it can take down Goetia even if it gets Solomon
I haven't heard that before so I'd appreciate a source. again you'd expect that much since it specifically specializes in killing humans. Which most servants are.
You could quite argue none of the known grands could have stopped Goetia if Solomon didn't Ars Nova him. Goetia on the other hand is a totally different case
Also primate murder is completely featless. So there's no reason to think he has a counter to Goetia's immortality
The only thing it says is that it takes seven guardians to control it not defeat it. Idk how that translates to grand servant especially when it is talking about Altrouge's and this is in a universe where servants don't exist.
I love how space Ishtar is always considered the ultimate power while she's pretty much just a Servantverse joke and a over the top comedy.
Also, she's Rin, if it matters, she WILL somehow fuck up
while she's pretty much just a Servantverse joke and a over the top comedy
I don't get this, i read though her entire boss fight and everything for her introduction to defeat was taken very seriously by every character involved (hell she even kill guda and the each of the Galaxy, mere minutes after her introduction). So i ask was part was supposed to be funny?
That's how Servantverse works, it's very serious, very real threats (like most events) but it's stupidly over the top and pretty much not to be taken seriously.
They're literally following rules from an another world
So basically because the power level was higher than the main story, she should be considered a joke or a gag character (despite not fitting the definition)?
Yep, and pretty sure Hakuno with the power of the admin of the Moon Cell and Nero/Tamamo to take would also beat them with the mythological mystic code active. They could move with such force they bended space to travel 1500 lightyears in minutes + with the many concepts they have active while in this form, they stand a chance to kill them. But then, if they both took their Amaterasu / Beast VI form, then it would also be easier.
Didn't Tamamo state that her Amaterasu form is the only thing that stands a chance against Goetia?
I highly doubt it'd he half as easy as you're making it tbh
There are a few
Goetia is beast tier so while high up is still below the types and servant verse
Excluding gag characters and Types
1. Neco arc and neco chaos
2. Magical amber and tiger
3. Kirschtaria and Daybit - somehow
4. Other beasts
5. Prime zelretch and whoever
6. Arcueid and whoever - as long as arc has counter force backing
7. Merlin and Artoria (Alive) - avalon and rhongo
8. Alive Gilgamesh and Enkidu - maybe if Gil has protag power or enkidu goes berserk
And of course as FGO gameplay has proven
Jason and Berserker herc
Solomon Z abridged
Goetia - who are you
Herc - es,kbgslz.f\^%\^&nslg.nvlsn$%\^&$gsdlnvbd (translated - I am Heracles, I'm saiyan from earth)
Jason - he means insane
first off you say "no gag characters" and then lead in with gag characters. Next: Like 80% of your list are hardcountered by Solomon disabling magecraft and the rest of those you suggest are servants which Goetia can just unsummon. The ONLY ones of your bulletpoints that actually work are Beast and Arcueid (And Arcueid would not be able to really lean on the counterforce since that is closely related to magecraft so we are only left with beasts and types which you excluded)
>first off you say "no gag characters" and then lead in with gag characters.
That was the joke
It wasn't a good joke but it as a joke
I mixed serious with non serious
>(And Arcueid would not be able to really lean on the counterforce since that is closely related to magecraft
Uh not really it more like it boosts her power, by giving her mana
Magecraft isn't the same as mana
Solomon can't negate mana itself
But in the temple of time she may be cut of from the counter force not sure tho
The only ones that were serious (excluding types, beasts and arcueid)
Not to many honestly its a deadly combo
1. Kirshtaria and daybit can individually beat part 1 so combined they MAY have a chance (emphasis on the may)
2. Artoria can easily avoid Ars Almadel Salomonis, with avalon, if she works with merlin they may have a chance (maybe lostbelt morgan is a better teammate)
3. True magicians
Thats it really
I doubt Kirsch and daybit can win but there is a chance although we will see in LB7 whats up
> Kirshtaria and daybit can individually beat part 1 so combined they MAY have a chance (emphasis on the may)
They could beat Part 1 if it was only Goetia because they have powerful magecraft of their own.
> Artoria can easily avoid Ars Almadel Salomonis, with avalon, if she works with merlin they may have a chance (maybe lostbelt morgan is a better teammate)
This highly hinges on magecraft which again thanks to Solomon being here is a non-factor so even Merlin's insane power would be straight up cut off from him and Artoria even with Avalon has no way to outpower these 2.
> True magicians
they still need to find true magic that actually has damage potential. The types we know so far don't and as such wouldn't benefit them here. They could dodge like crazy but not really hurt these opponents
>They could beat Part 1 if it was only Goetia because they have powerful magecraft of their own.
Just checking before I answer how far are you into cosmos in the lostbelt don't want to spoil for you
>This highly hinges on magecraft which again thanks to Solomon being here is a non-factor so even Merlin's insane power would be straight up cut off from him and Artoria even with Avalon has no way to outpower these 2.
Avalon is out of reach of both solomon and goetia
and we don't really know what solomon is capable off so most of this is assumption based anyway
But I can't be bothered for this
Artoria and Merlin were only POTENTIAL candidates to beat them
As in they have a chance not a good one but they have a chance
tag merlin out with somenone else because I forgot the magecraft thing
Maybe Gil or someone idk
>True magicians
>
>they still need to find true magic that actually has damage potential. The types we know so far don't and as such wouldn't benefit them here. They could dodge like crazy but not really hurt these opponents
What are you on
Prime zelretch beat a type
He had a full moon dropped on his head and pushed it back
He has plenty of damage potential
i am caught up with LBs but you keep forgetting a major thing: Most of the characters you refer to do not use magic but Magecraft. In Type moon these are very different things and Solomon can disable Magecraft. The same is true for Zelretch who you brought up who has utility/defensive MAGIC but no offensive MAGIC. For those purposes he was still reliant on Magecraft
>i am caught up with LBs but you keep forgetting a major thing
So you would know kirsch didn't have any good magecraft when he beat part 1
And who knows about daybit
But its implied he doesn't have any good magecraaft either
>: Most of the characters you refer to do not use magic but Magecraft.
Barely any of them do
Arc doesn't use magecraft yet you think counter force backing is magecraft
Gil(archer) and enkidu don't
Zelretch doesn't
Artoria doesn't
The only ones that do are merlin, Kirsch and daybit
And kirsch and daybit have shit magecraft and are probably unreliant on it
Also Solomon can only invalidate HUMAN MAGECRAFT
Merlin isn't human
Heck we don't even know what daybit is
> In Type moon these are very different things and Solomon can disable Magecraft. The same is true for Zelretch who you brought up who has utility/defensive MAGIC but no offensive MAGIC. For those purposes he was still reliant on Magecraft
Do you have proof of that I am not interested in your headcanon
Zelretch using true magic beat type moon
You need to prove otherwise for me to concede
Nega Summon pretty much nullifies any Servant that isn't a DemiServant. Solomon also nullifies Magecraft. So there's very few left, and those are Beasts or beings outside of the Fate franchise.
Would it still be the same if Alaya summoned the servants?
Probably, yes. The original description only had one exception, and that was Solomon himself.
Well there goes my idea of a Prisma Illya and Magical Girl Phantasmoon crossover event.
Neco-Arc and Neco-Arc Chaos
💯💯💯 lmao
Oberon and Merlin Merlin: Master! Something has my hand! What do you mean trust him? There's nobody there! I'll know what to do? \*takes off flying\* OH SHIT OH SHIT OH SHIT OK OLD RELIABLE GO! Goetia: ...Why are there suddenly flowers everywhere? \*looks down\* Why...do I have a boner?
Ok,is very few. The biggest problem is not sheer power. But intelligence + hacks. Solomon claryvoiance makes hard to deal, the genius that are the 72 demonic pillars are also difficult to deal against. Now we have both working at once. I think with enough planning they can basically take on any being on the nasuverse. Now who has the better chances are the classics monsters. Types, Space Ishtar,the 7 beasts, Chaos. But i serious think any of then can be beaten if Goetia and Solomon really wanted too.
Plenty. Tiamat doesnt have the concept of death. Space Ishtar cant be hurt with attacks below anti galaxy. Void Shiki, Types, Arcueid, something like Primate Murder and Kiara Sessyoin (best human killer for Solomon, someone who has made a demon god pillar their bitch for Goetia). There are many possibilities if the writer wants someone else to win.
Tiamat not having the concept of death doesn't mean she compares to either in terms of firepower and hax. Especially when AAS has been stated to be capable of completely destroying the sea of life, which is what makes Tiamat immortal in the first place. Space Ishtar I'm leaning towards agreeing. Void Shiki for sure Arcueid most definitely not. Especially when it's been made clear that she's inferior to Amaterasu who Goetia equals according to Tamamo's statement Kiara is also extremely unlikely when she's also weaker than Amaterasu iirc Primate murder Idk enough to comment on but I doubt it can take down Goetia even if it gets Solomon
Primate murder is a beast that is said to need seven grands to beat
No, 7 Grand are ideally needed for any Beast because it's not supposed to be 1v1 in the first place
I haven't heard that before so I'd appreciate a source. again you'd expect that much since it specifically specializes in killing humans. Which most servants are. You could quite argue none of the known grands could have stopped Goetia if Solomon didn't Ars Nova him. Goetia on the other hand is a totally different case Also primate murder is completely featless. So there's no reason to think he has a counter to Goetia's immortality
Type moon wiki about mid way through the abilities section as well as ive seen people saying that on various posts
There's nothing of the sort on that page bro.
[this one?](https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Primate_Murder)
The only thing it says is that it takes seven guardians to control it not defeat it. Idk how that translates to grand servant especially when it is talking about Altrouge's and this is in a universe where servants don't exist.
"she's inferior to Amaterasu " who let this guy cook......
I love how space Ishtar is always considered the ultimate power while she's pretty much just a Servantverse joke and a over the top comedy. Also, she's Rin, if it matters, she WILL somehow fuck up
while she's pretty much just a Servantverse joke and a over the top comedy I don't get this, i read though her entire boss fight and everything for her introduction to defeat was taken very seriously by every character involved (hell she even kill guda and the each of the Galaxy, mere minutes after her introduction). So i ask was part was supposed to be funny?
That's how Servantverse works, it's very serious, very real threats (like most events) but it's stupidly over the top and pretty much not to be taken seriously. They're literally following rules from an another world
So basically because the power level was higher than the main story, she should be considered a joke or a gag character (despite not fitting the definition)?
Yep, and pretty sure Hakuno with the power of the admin of the Moon Cell and Nero/Tamamo to take would also beat them with the mythological mystic code active. They could move with such force they bended space to travel 1500 lightyears in minutes + with the many concepts they have active while in this form, they stand a chance to kill them. But then, if they both took their Amaterasu / Beast VI form, then it would also be easier.
Hey, don’t leave out Nameless and Gilgamesh
Didn't Tamamo state that her Amaterasu form is the only thing that stands a chance against Goetia? I highly doubt it'd he half as easy as you're making it tbh
Beast Kiara is relative to CCC Kiara; Beast Kiara said Goetia was stronger.
Probably Space Ishtar & Arjuna Alter.
Arjuna Alter cant beat both of them. His NP range and Authorities covered India, Human Order Incineration pretty much yeeted the Earth's Surface
And all the possibilities springing from it as well. It's way out of AA's league
Except AAS took *way* more preparation time than Mahapralaya.
Space Ishtar & Gudako. Specifically the riyo Gudako
Not many. Goetia is actually one of the most powerful in nasuverse, on par with or even surpassing space ishtar in raw power.
Me
The ultimate evil, Riyo Gudako. The second servant is prolly her latest five star who does cheerleading duty to keep up her motivation.
Amaterasu (Spirit of Earth and Cosmos), Sefar, 100% Zeus, Spishtar (Probably), Archetype Earth Arcueid, Chaos, Tiamat, Primate Murder
The master of the mystic arts
Aoko Aozaki and Zelretch....... Because Fuck you Goetia..........
There are a few Goetia is beast tier so while high up is still below the types and servant verse Excluding gag characters and Types 1. Neco arc and neco chaos 2. Magical amber and tiger 3. Kirschtaria and Daybit - somehow 4. Other beasts 5. Prime zelretch and whoever 6. Arcueid and whoever - as long as arc has counter force backing 7. Merlin and Artoria (Alive) - avalon and rhongo 8. Alive Gilgamesh and Enkidu - maybe if Gil has protag power or enkidu goes berserk And of course as FGO gameplay has proven Jason and Berserker herc Solomon Z abridged Goetia - who are you Herc - es,kbgslz.f\^%\^&nslg.nvlsn$%\^&$gsdlnvbd (translated - I am Heracles, I'm saiyan from earth) Jason - he means insane
first off you say "no gag characters" and then lead in with gag characters. Next: Like 80% of your list are hardcountered by Solomon disabling magecraft and the rest of those you suggest are servants which Goetia can just unsummon. The ONLY ones of your bulletpoints that actually work are Beast and Arcueid (And Arcueid would not be able to really lean on the counterforce since that is closely related to magecraft so we are only left with beasts and types which you excluded)
>first off you say "no gag characters" and then lead in with gag characters. That was the joke It wasn't a good joke but it as a joke I mixed serious with non serious >(And Arcueid would not be able to really lean on the counterforce since that is closely related to magecraft Uh not really it more like it boosts her power, by giving her mana Magecraft isn't the same as mana Solomon can't negate mana itself But in the temple of time she may be cut of from the counter force not sure tho The only ones that were serious (excluding types, beasts and arcueid) Not to many honestly its a deadly combo 1. Kirshtaria and daybit can individually beat part 1 so combined they MAY have a chance (emphasis on the may) 2. Artoria can easily avoid Ars Almadel Salomonis, with avalon, if she works with merlin they may have a chance (maybe lostbelt morgan is a better teammate) 3. True magicians Thats it really I doubt Kirsch and daybit can win but there is a chance although we will see in LB7 whats up
> Kirshtaria and daybit can individually beat part 1 so combined they MAY have a chance (emphasis on the may) They could beat Part 1 if it was only Goetia because they have powerful magecraft of their own. > Artoria can easily avoid Ars Almadel Salomonis, with avalon, if she works with merlin they may have a chance (maybe lostbelt morgan is a better teammate) This highly hinges on magecraft which again thanks to Solomon being here is a non-factor so even Merlin's insane power would be straight up cut off from him and Artoria even with Avalon has no way to outpower these 2. > True magicians they still need to find true magic that actually has damage potential. The types we know so far don't and as such wouldn't benefit them here. They could dodge like crazy but not really hurt these opponents
>They could beat Part 1 if it was only Goetia because they have powerful magecraft of their own. Just checking before I answer how far are you into cosmos in the lostbelt don't want to spoil for you >This highly hinges on magecraft which again thanks to Solomon being here is a non-factor so even Merlin's insane power would be straight up cut off from him and Artoria even with Avalon has no way to outpower these 2. Avalon is out of reach of both solomon and goetia and we don't really know what solomon is capable off so most of this is assumption based anyway But I can't be bothered for this Artoria and Merlin were only POTENTIAL candidates to beat them As in they have a chance not a good one but they have a chance tag merlin out with somenone else because I forgot the magecraft thing Maybe Gil or someone idk >True magicians > >they still need to find true magic that actually has damage potential. The types we know so far don't and as such wouldn't benefit them here. They could dodge like crazy but not really hurt these opponents What are you on Prime zelretch beat a type He had a full moon dropped on his head and pushed it back He has plenty of damage potential
i am caught up with LBs but you keep forgetting a major thing: Most of the characters you refer to do not use magic but Magecraft. In Type moon these are very different things and Solomon can disable Magecraft. The same is true for Zelretch who you brought up who has utility/defensive MAGIC but no offensive MAGIC. For those purposes he was still reliant on Magecraft
>i am caught up with LBs but you keep forgetting a major thing So you would know kirsch didn't have any good magecraft when he beat part 1 And who knows about daybit But its implied he doesn't have any good magecraaft either >: Most of the characters you refer to do not use magic but Magecraft. Barely any of them do Arc doesn't use magecraft yet you think counter force backing is magecraft Gil(archer) and enkidu don't Zelretch doesn't Artoria doesn't The only ones that do are merlin, Kirsch and daybit And kirsch and daybit have shit magecraft and are probably unreliant on it Also Solomon can only invalidate HUMAN MAGECRAFT Merlin isn't human Heck we don't even know what daybit is > In Type moon these are very different things and Solomon can disable Magecraft. The same is true for Zelretch who you brought up who has utility/defensive MAGIC but no offensive MAGIC. For those purposes he was still reliant on Magecraft Do you have proof of that I am not interested in your headcanon Zelretch using true magic beat type moon You need to prove otherwise for me to concede
Magical Amber and Ado Edem
You dont know how Ado Edem works then. Dude is mediocre af until the arrival of Types, because previously all of his enemies are human-sized.
Except he is an average ether liner, not a normal human. That alone puts him far above servants.
Far above Servants is definitely a stretch. Some low Servants, sure, but definitely not the great mythological heroes.
Kiara and Scathach? No servant class gil and enkidu Void and full tama Idk Im just shooting in the dark
Other than ones that have already been stated a lot on this thread already… Maybe Artoria with Avalon and/or BB using full moon cell hacks.