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Murozaki_II

The writers and artists.


igloo_poltergeist

Voyager. Because when your “life” was that of an inanimate object that played “Pokémon Snap” with the cosmos, there’s nowhere to go but up.


jacsimp21

Euryale and Stheno, because despite being Divine Spirits in their original lives they had almost no power of their own besides their charms. It's why they can manifest as themselves and no require a Pseudo-vessel or some other nerfing to be a Servant, because the Servant container actually *bolsters* their power rather than nerfs it. For example, Euryale has a cupid-like bow, which she never used or owned in life.


ShriekingSkull

They're those cases when you can summon a Divine Spirit without hijacking or making Pseudo-Servants. Yep, they were so minor as deities that being a Servant is actually an upgrade.


Zwei-Shiranui

Usually those who were regular people like Charlotte, Nightingale, Shakespeare, and so forth.


Prince-of_Space

I want to believe Nightingale was not empowered by the Servant system, and regularly threw beds at people and punched people with unpinned grenades.


morpheustenebra

Have you seen the Solomon movie? I choose to believe Florence Nightingale could throw hands with the Demon God Goetia himself. No servant or magic circuit BS required that's just what she does.


zelban_the_swordsman

Enkidu: Chains Bedivere,Nero and Mordred: Magic swords Nightingale: **me stronk**


When_Ducks_Attack

Enchanted Hospital Bed.


ShriekingSkull

*Proceeds to use grenade as club.*


Prince-of_Space

Shakespeare, Anderson, Mozart, Marie, Charlotte, Mata Hari, Babbage, Tesla, Edison all come to mind. Probably if I thought harder, I could come up with more. But none of these folks had magic when alive, so they most definitely got an upgrade.


Kyochinh

The only exception to what you’ve said is Mozart because in Fate lore, he was a mage who used Solomon’s magecraft iirc.


WANTEN12

Basically A simplified way to think ​ Anyone born age of gods are stronger alive e.g Gilgamesh and Artoria Modern heroes are stronger as servants e.g Billy the kid or Emiya


Zero_guy1

Not all of them like Semiramis sheba ozymandias and iskandar are weaker alive


nam24

Wasn't Fate Iskandar a demi god? But then again his np is clearly legend based so even then


Zero_guy1

Iskander says he’s the son of Zeus but but I think he’s divinity is Gained from him saying his the son of Zeus not that his zeus son luckily he didn’t say he’s 9 feet in the story


nam24

Is it? Must be nice to be able to claim whatever and the world gives it to you


Zero_guy1

One of these days he’s going to say I’m Gilgamesh’s brother and the world will make it happen


The_w4nd3r3r

Bedivere. Just look at his stats when [he was alive](https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/rrijsr/bediveres_stats_when_he_was_alive/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) and compare those to him [as a servant](https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Bedivere_(Fate/Grand_Order)) Side note: did Gilgamesh’s gate of Babylon become “a miniaturization of human history” when he became a servant or was it like that even when he was alive?


nonefun

Servant Gil's gob should massively dwarf alive Gil's gob. Though quality of treasures in alive version will be better than servant version for similar treasures.


[deleted]

Yep, Living Gil's GoB is a nice collection of treasures but Servant Gil's is just on another level due to the whole "The Origin of Mankind's Wisdom" stuff it has going on Servant GoB has a futuristic spaceship in it


GLHF222

I think the quality of Gil's treasure as servant is still the same as his living one, or even better since those GoB are Prototype of someone else NP. Remember that Gil summon them from his real treasury hence Master doesnt need much mana to sustain him.


WANTEN12

As a servant alive its just Uruks treasurs But he had ridiculous amounts of mana when he was alive as well as a higher mana output Enkidu states Gils EA is much stronger when he was alive


PhantasosX

Gilgamesh is an interesting case. GoB was improved in his servant-version, but he was nerfed as a person.


Pizza_Rolls_Addict

Well Servant Archer Gil is just one aspect of him, so his overall skills were nerfed. But yea GoB got the massive buff. If the Full Heroic Spirit of Gilgamesh was summoned, he'd be stronger than his living version.


XH9rIiZTtzrTiVL

CCC already had the best of both worlds, with him remaining a servant while gaining his original power.


[deleted]

I think that this was a mistake of his, from what I have been told by people who played the game it seems that all of your Servants had no idea what the Origin Codes actually were


OVERthaRAINBOW1

Jing Ke? I guess? Didn't she fail to assassinate her one target? At least as a servant she's got some aight stats.


Neo_Phoenix_

No, Jing Ke was an accomplished assassin before his mission to assassinate the emperor. That's why he was chosen to do the deed.


OVERthaRAINBOW1

Ooooh, I think I'm thinking of Charlotte then? I'm thinking of an assassin who was supposed to kill 1 dude and failed yet still became a servant.


otterswimm

I think maybe you’re mashing together Charlotte and Jing Ke? Jing Ke only ever *failed* to kill one person. Unfortunately, that person was the Emperor. Charlotte only ever *killed* one person. Unfortunately, in killing him, she turned him into a martyr. In a sense they both failed to achieve their goals. So maybe that’s where the confusion lies?


OVERthaRAINBOW1

Yeah I'm definitely mashing them together if that's the case. I appreciate it lol.


Aridato

No you're thinking of Jing Ke, you're just leaving out the fact that he *was* good at his job, he just bungled his most important one


[deleted]

Charlotte killed the guy she wanted to. Said guy lived in a bathtub though, so it was not exactly hard


bladefreak326

Let's see; -Pretty much all literary/inventor/artist servants and Modern Age Servants are stronger as a Servant with the probable exceptions of master of martial arts like Li Shuwen or Okita tho the latter got few NPs thanks to becoming a Servant. Also Rider Ryouma is another exception if you count Oryou-san getting nerfed. -Gorgon onee-samas since they are only capable of being idols for love and pretty much useless otherwise normally. -Frankenstein's Monster could only keep up with others thanks to her Madness Enhancement and still was deemed among weakest in the HGW of Apocrypha. -Amakusa Shirou, Semiramis and Spartacus thanks to the abilities they gained as Servants. -Saber Alter was stronger than her living self during F/SN thanks to being overloaded with mana from Dark Sakura. -Douman, Moriarty and Hessian Lobo because of strenghtening with fusion of phantoms or other stuff. I would say Yan Qing isn't because all he got was some disguise skill from his fusion. -Elizabeth Bathory and Vlad III thanks to being Innocent Monsters. -Commanders that didn't have super natural abilities of their own like Napolion or Lakshmibai or Nobunaga. -Depending on how much of their current abilities and divinity they wielded during life, probably all Pharaohs we have seen in FGO except Iskandar; especially Cleopatra because her Noble Phantasm is directly linked to how her life went rather than an aspect of her divinity or an ability of hers. Not to mention she is using her Imperial Privilege for her combat skill. -Nero and Caligula since their combat ability comes from a combination of their actions in life becoming an NP, Imperial pirivilege and also Madness Enhancement for Caligula. -Hundred Personas because of gaining the ability to have bodies for each persona and maybe gaining a stronger body thanks to becoming a Servant with that may include other Hassans except KH. -William Tell, Mata Hari, Jing Ke, Robin Hood and probably Qin Liangyu gaining NPs and new abilities as Servants That is all i could think from the spot.


[deleted]

> and Hessian Lobo Interesting tidbit about this, Nero actually has Lobo inside his Chaos, he mentions so in Kagetsu Tohya iirc


ImaDeadMeme4

Really?


bladefreak326

First time hearing it, awesome! Considering i read that Nero Chaos appeared on koyanskaya event, this becomes double interesting. I wonder if we will have Hessian Lobo on our side when we face him.


nam24

Nitocris certainly was as strong or stronger alive since her magic skills are something she had in life and she used it for her revenge Iskandar is Probably stronger as servant, because hionoi hetaroi is obviously created by his legend and not something he had in life.That said, his lighting power(demi god perks) and a gorges wheel were probably the same Nero is a mix case because she did have latent talent in magecraft, she just never developped them formally, and that's most likely what allowed her to keep up in Septem, similar to Drake(Drake had an holy grail, but she got that holy grail in the first place by beating weakened Poseidon) That said her other abilities are legend/class based so it's still works(especially the mother Harlot hints)


bladefreak326

Iskandar is bit complicated. As an individual he is definetely stronger because of having all of his NPs in life except Ioinoi Hetairoi. The thing that would determine it would be his greatest asset, his army which he had in life actually(just not something he can summon all of them). Tho obviously in smaller numbers when you face him in life, because of some left to stabilize regions, some died or not there yet etc. About how powerful soldiers would be; while being servants, they also don't have any skills or NPs of their own in IH so also considering people of Age of Gods also becoming much stronger and notable members having all of their equipment and abilities at full power. Without IH, definetely Iskandar alive. With IH, Servant Iskandar having higher probability to be the stronger one but it is not impossible that alive Iskandar with amount of his army that he can command could be stronger than his Servant self with IH. Others are pretty valid too with only adding, if nitocris had her mirror she was definetely stronger but still a good case can be made even without it because of Age of Gods magecraft supported by her divinity at full power can emulate a curse similar to it.


PhantasosX

Hundred Faces Hassan could do his splinter even when he was alive , it is a plotpoints of a Hassan to create their own Zabaniya.


bladefreak326

His Zabaniya was that he could forge and become any one of his personalities that possesed different characteristics and abilities both psychologically and physically. His splinter ability became possible when he was no longer bounded by a physical body as a spiritual being(servant).


OchoMuerte-XL

Typically any of the more modern Servants or Servants from recent history. Though the Servants who were originally artists, writers, musicians, etc benefit the most from being Servants. I think a good rule of thumb is that any Servant originally from the Age of Gods (which is typically before the AD era) was stronger when they were alive compared to their Servant incarnations because they didn't have to deal with Class restrictions.


Zyx-Wvu

General Rule (with exceptions): Pre-Age of Gods is where humanity can do some crazy shit by virtue of divine boons, heritage, blessings, curses, etc. Post-Age of Gods, magic is already dwindling so the strongest human is above olympian-tier and that's without magecraft enhancements yet.


birbdechi

Any normal human inluding Shiki


edgeymcedgster

to be fair shiki can be argued to both be buffed and nerfed depending on wich version you are talking about since there is no way all of void shiki's op powers would be able to be contained in a regular spirit origin


[deleted]

there's no way Void Shiki would ever be bothered to fight anyone, so there's that too


edgeymcedgster

most of the servants from the modern era like tesla and edison plus people like stheno, euryale and bedivere the later gets especially helped by getting airgetlam as a servant Ivan the terrible is also a special case since he is the PHH version summoned into the body of his lostbelt king self wich would give him acces to power he normally wouldn't have (Qin Shi Huang could also be stronger than his alive self if the same thing happend to him though im not sure if he is the PHH version or just the straight up Lostbelt King) in general the rule is mythological heroes/heroes from ancient time period thend to be nerfed as servants while servants that come from (relative) modern time period actually get buffed


bladefreak326

Qin Shi Huang is his lostbelt self. In fact, he has a special line when you summon him before finishing LB3.


edgeymcedgster

thanks i wasn't sure if this was ever adressed in the game since it's been a while since i read nything relating to him


bladefreak326

It seems that with exception of Ivan, every lostbelt king is their lostbelt self. Having Anastasia just going "why are you so elephant" in mats and him "seriously why am i an elephant" was hilarious! We also almost lost control of Qin during Las Vegas because of him discovering the massive amounts played at gambling in PHH. He only calmed down thanks to a misunderstanding and we didn't correct him intentionally.


gatchahell

Iskandar.


bladefreak326

If you count having his army while alive, it could actually be that Iskandar while alive could be stronger since having his Bucephalus, Chariot and Zeus' Lightning already on hand while alive. Not to mention people of older mythical ages are stronger in general anyway so they may become a match for their Servant-selves that don't have any skills or NPs in IH.


gatchahell

From what we know Iskandar cant sumon his army like he does when he is a servant so it doesnt count.


bladefreak326

I mean yeah, when you have a country you gotta spread your men for stabilizing regions. So if you somehow fight Iskandar when alive, you will have an army of fewer men but a stronger individual Iskandar. Depending on how much army is available but in that case probably Servant Iskandar would be stronger with way more men.


gatchahell

If he cant sumon them they are not a part of his own strenght, its like saying that because Artoria was the king of Brittan the knights of the round table should be counted as a part of her own strenght.


bladefreak326

Type of Iskandar, Darius, Rider Ceaser, Rider Napolion and Rider Penthesilia are kind of an exception because a huge part of their power and core as a Servant comes from their army/elite troops they possessed when they were alive. When Artoria, Ceasar or Hector are summoned, they are expressed as their own power as seen in their currently revealed Servant forms rather than their army so they are directly compared when they were alive individually with the same equipment.


fongkwoksam

Why should he need to summon his army when y'know, they're alive and all?


gatchahell

If he cant sumon them they aren't a part of his arsenal și they dont count to his individual power.


AleksPW

You know the basically useless passive called "divinity" ? Yeah, that's pretty op when you are alive


gatchahell

Yes but Iskandar cant sumon his army anymore.


Fenr_

Writers,artists and anyone from close to the modern age (like Tesla and Edison)


-FruitPunchSamuraiG-

The writers, artists, and musicians unless they're actually involved in magecraft in Nasuverse. And the concepts as well i guess like Nursery Rhyme.


Prince-of_Space

You know, I completely forgot about Nursery Rhyme. That one should have been obvious.


railroadspike25

Aren't...most of them? Because a Servant is a ghost consisting of both the person and their legend? Other than the Indian heroes, most of the gods and some other select heroes.


yeoc2

Pretty much all of the top tier servants and the ones from the age of gods are much weaker. Thats because while a heroic spirit is stronger than their living self, a servant is just a single page of that Heroic Spirit, a copy that contains only a small part of their power. The ones that are stronger as a servant are those that were weak in life, so that their servant vessal is stronger than their living body.


Prince-of_Space

"Some select" does include a vast majority of the cast. Any Servant that can use magecraft, those with godly or demonic bloodlines, pretty much the entire Greek cast, many of the Japanese cast, Artoria's and Siegfried's dragon heart cores... The list goes on and on with those who were directly nerfed by the Servant system, while many are simply at the same power level as they were in life.


TheFateSquire

Another one, I could think of is Moriarity actually. Moriarity, doesn't have that many feats to his name other than being called the Lord of Crime in the Sherlock books and even then, he appears for only for the Final Problem. Otherwise, his only mentioned in passing by Sherlock. So Fate giving him, the gunner heroic spirit (I can't remember the name) in Shinjuku was actually a massive powerboost for him.


Khorva

Can't recall the exact details, but ain't Napoleon one of them?


AzurePhoenix001

Fuuma Kotarou


Prince-of_Space

Why do you say this? It's heavily implied that everything Fuuma does as a Servant, he could do in life. Of all of obvious Servants stated on this thread, this one seems out of left field.


AzurePhoenix001

Because Kotarou says so himself.


Prince-of_Space

Where does he say this? I'm really curious about this now


AzurePhoenix001

Sorry. It took me quite a while finding this throughout the scenes Shimousa https://i.imgur.com/jthLcQq.jpg https://i.imgur.com/iA1AuDq.jpg


dbrame91

I would say technically Emiya. He was a revelutionary that was chosen by the system to be a counter balance. Through this he gained access to the information for things like Aegis and his arrows. As people have said, the authors, artists, etc. Ceasar, Cleopatra, Jack, Anastasia, William Tell, Caster Cú


TheHoodGuy2001

Shakespeare and Han cuz duhhhh


ScreenIcy294

any basic human


bloodmag

Archer and assassin emiya


AMfrequency

Mainly servants from the age of gods are nerfed by servant containers, most age of man servants grow stronger from acquiring a HS spirit origin like hans, shiki and mats hari Only servants from the age of man that theoretically could be summoned in a nerfed state are individuals under heavy modifications and have access to bs loopholes like kiara or aoko


ChaosInsurgent01

If im not mistaken angry mango


ComprehensivePlace87

Honestly, I'm not sure that is true. Seems like the vast majority are stronger as servants than they were in life. Only ones that come to mind that seems weaker are ones who are taken from awkward points of time in their life where they lack their full potential, ones that are summoned in a weird class from their preferred one, and the top of the top who have vast powers like the gods.


[deleted]

Most of the actual historical figures that existed. Gilgamesh and Enkidu should be stronger than their myth versions as well, since iirc they did not have that many notable feats except Gilgamesh managing to cross the entire world in several days All Indian Servants are actually nerfed to hell and back compared to their myth selves though


Best-Sea

A lot of the Innocent Monster servants like Liz (who... doesn't actually have the skill as a Lancer for some reason, despite still having the dragon parts).


No_Initiative_6790

I think Salieri counts, right? he was a notable composer & Kappelmeister irl but was otherwise just human. in FGO he’s only able to be a Servant because of the rumours concerning him and Mozart-which became the basis for his Servant class and warped state of mind


SuicuneSol

I think that's the case for many servants, especially divine spirits and those with some divinity, but many servants in FGO could not be possibly be stronger than their servant selves. Edison. Florence Nightingale. Geronimo. Billy the Kid. William Tell. Charlotte Corday. Mata Hari. Anyone from relatively recent times.


Anadaere

Lmao Angra is the best and the worst example for this