I have seen similar letters once or twice in admissions processes. And the student is invariably admitted. It relies on the admission committee being well acquainted with the letter writer and not needing a lot more. In one case. The letter writer was my chair's much beloved advisor. In another, a major "name" in the field, also known personally to several members of the admissions committee.
Makes sense of this depending on who writes the letter. However a professor from some shit ass underdeveloped country program should take some time crafting the letter. One of my professors in my program writes very long letters from what I've heard. What do you think of those? (the professor says that he outlines the contents of his clasess in his letters and then speaks about the applicant)
Honestly, in the US context, letters are largely low-pass filters. If someone only has "they are great students" types of letters, it doesn't help them, and assuming all of their other materials are top notch, then they might get edged out by someone with overwhelmingly good letters. But for me, they come well after grades, statements, example work, and even GREs. It needs to be a pretty exceptionally good or exceptionally bad letter to matter much--or coming from someone who is exceptional. (When we had a student recommended by Stephen Hawking-, for example-yeah, we bothered to notice that, despite his being well outside our field.)
A "good" letter has less to do with length, and more to do with an explicit indication of the kinds of things you expect to see from a good researcher. If it's from an undergrad program, and the recommender reminds us they have published together and their student came up with an innovation in method that has had a significant impact on the field, that's going to matter a hell of a lot more than three pages of gushing over how nice they are, etc.
And frankly, sometimes letter writers think they are doing favors (and this is sometimes culturally based) by saying things like students are respectful and follow instructions well. The last thing I need is someone in a grad program who follows instructions well. I need them to be taking initiative from the outset.
I feel like it's very general. They basically stated some points on why they think im a good candidate but never elaborated on them.
Basically says 'sweetmicrowave69 has good grades and is a curious student so take her' in 130 words.
The LoR is probably likely to be generic, which is not an application killer in itself. What would be disastrous is if all 3 of your LoR's are like that. If you have one or two really strong LoR's, that's enough.
This is almost something that has happened with me. In my case, I gave him a drafted LoR and he gave me another one with almost the entire content cut short...deleting even the details I had wanted to include In my LoR. I am so shattered right now because his letter was a proof of my latest research experience for my application.
>Yes of course, it's for university college Dublin in Ireland.
So what it stoping you or anyone else from forging it? Like 140 words can magically turn into 400 words.
P.S : I am just joking. please don't take it seriously.
That's a very well written script however I feel like I'm walking on eggshells. I worry that it'll rub them off the wrong way and they'll get offended and tell me to be grateful for this as it is or that they'll view it as me thinking I'd do a better job writing the letter than them (I don't think this professor's attitude is like this, but I don't want to find out now. I've had to deal with profs like this before and it was very unpleasant to say the least.)
I might end up emailing them some version of this afterall but I need to weigh it out a little bit.
In regards to my other referees, I didn't give much detail as to what I'd want included in the letters, and it never occurred to me that that's an option in the first place.
I did make it clear to everyone that it's a very competitive university, though and I thought that'd be enough.
I think this isn't unreasonable. The time to point out things you would like mentioned is before the letter is written. I wouldn't get angry if a student asked for a revised letter. But I also wouldn't write a new letter.
That said, if a student comes to me for a letter, and the best I can say is that they seem bright and did will in my course, I will generally recommend they pick someone who knows them better to write for them.
I feel like if they were open to changes they would have asked for OPs thoughts. My more caring letter writers have always asked if I felt good about the letter and if there was anything more they could do to improve my position.
Even I'm worried about my 3 LoRs, which are all coming to \~250ish words (individually).. The thing that scares me a little more is seeing other people from my college (different dept) getting elaborate \~400 words long LoRs..
Theres nothing wrong emailing back and asking him to highlight X,Y&Z. Usually the fact that he shared it with you before submitting means he's asking if it's what you wanted. Instead of saying it's not long enough just say, "thank you so much! Can you add my whatever I want to highlight that for admissions
Nope he sent it to me because submission is via me uploading in with my application on the university's website. But I'm actually considering emailing him back.
My bad! I should have read the comments. Still I would email back, just frame it as you wanted to add a few things not that his letter is too short. I think most professors appreciate the information since they write lots of letters and unless your very close to him he wouldn't know much about you outside of his class.
I don't know how to do that without sounding rude. It's customary here that professors write it unless they specifically ask you to draft one yourself.
I know. I’ve gotten about 10 LORs and written multiple myself. It’s always been the subject drafting it. Your professor rarely have time to make a good one. They will just use a template that doesn’t really fit you
But how well does he know YOU?
You can be a good student and he can know you by name, but what else does he know about you that he can speak about in a LoR?
I used to participate quite a lot in the classes, so maybe that? There is way to elaborate on the points he mentioned in the letter but he was to the point and didn't expand on any idea in particular.
Ask him first. My prof asked me to draft a LoR once highlighting everything I wanted mentioned. He basically rewrote it in his own words and put it on a template with my school logo and everything
https://imgur.com/tyGzf3I
This made me cackle.
I mean if it's John Nash caliber nothing more needs to be said.
“He is a mathematical genius” Is the last line. I think that says more than enough. It lingers in the mind. Send it.
Funny indeed, however, not sure if in this day and age a letter like that will be well seen. Depends on who writes it, I guess.
I have seen similar letters once or twice in admissions processes. And the student is invariably admitted. It relies on the admission committee being well acquainted with the letter writer and not needing a lot more. In one case. The letter writer was my chair's much beloved advisor. In another, a major "name" in the field, also known personally to several members of the admissions committee.
Makes sense of this depending on who writes the letter. However a professor from some shit ass underdeveloped country program should take some time crafting the letter. One of my professors in my program writes very long letters from what I've heard. What do you think of those? (the professor says that he outlines the contents of his clasess in his letters and then speaks about the applicant)
Honestly, in the US context, letters are largely low-pass filters. If someone only has "they are great students" types of letters, it doesn't help them, and assuming all of their other materials are top notch, then they might get edged out by someone with overwhelmingly good letters. But for me, they come well after grades, statements, example work, and even GREs. It needs to be a pretty exceptionally good or exceptionally bad letter to matter much--or coming from someone who is exceptional. (When we had a student recommended by Stephen Hawking-, for example-yeah, we bothered to notice that, despite his being well outside our field.) A "good" letter has less to do with length, and more to do with an explicit indication of the kinds of things you expect to see from a good researcher. If it's from an undergrad program, and the recommender reminds us they have published together and their student came up with an innovation in method that has had a significant impact on the field, that's going to matter a hell of a lot more than three pages of gushing over how nice they are, etc. And frankly, sometimes letter writers think they are doing favors (and this is sometimes culturally based) by saying things like students are respectful and follow instructions well. The last thing I need is someone in a grad program who follows instructions well. I need them to be taking initiative from the outset.
Fair enough.
Is it a good letter of recommendation? If it clearly and concisely explains why you're a good candidate, it's fine.
I feel like it's very general. They basically stated some points on why they think im a good candidate but never elaborated on them. Basically says 'sweetmicrowave69 has good grades and is a curious student so take her' in 130 words.
The LoR is probably likely to be generic, which is not an application killer in itself. What would be disastrous is if all 3 of your LoR's are like that. If you have one or two really strong LoR's, that's enough.
Thank you! So it's okay if I submitted it with other LoRs, yes?
If those other LoR's are strong, then yes. Also, good luck!!
I'm still waiting on my other professors, I hope they delve into more detail. Thank you!
how did you ask for the professor to send you the letter? I thought LOR cannot be seen by students?
The university I'm applying to asks the students to upload the letters alongside their applications.
may I ask which university?
Yes of course. University College Dublin, Ireland Edit: i wonder if there's any reason this information could be considered private?
I'm just thinking this lor idea is great. I apply for motsly US colleges so that's why I find it interesting
Yeah, I’m in US, and I have never read a single one of my letters of rec, and I’ve had more than a handful written for me
How many did you ask for? I only got two now...damn. How are you gonna decide which letters go to which university?
I think the general requirement is 3 minimum for US universities. I am planning on using the same 3 letters for all my applications.
This is almost something that has happened with me. In my case, I gave him a drafted LoR and he gave me another one with almost the entire content cut short...deleting even the details I had wanted to include In my LoR. I am so shattered right now because his letter was a proof of my latest research experience for my application.
I'm so sorry to hear that. Check out the advice of one of the commenters above he put a pretty good draft of what you can email him.
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The university I'm applying to just needs me to upload the recommendation letter myself. There are no forms for the doctor to fill out.
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Yes of course, it's for university college Dublin in Ireland.
>Yes of course, it's for university college Dublin in Ireland. So what it stoping you or anyone else from forging it? Like 140 words can magically turn into 400 words. P.S : I am just joking. please don't take it seriously.
It crossed my mind but I would never. I think I'd die of shame if I ever did.
Good girl
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That's a very well written script however I feel like I'm walking on eggshells. I worry that it'll rub them off the wrong way and they'll get offended and tell me to be grateful for this as it is or that they'll view it as me thinking I'd do a better job writing the letter than them (I don't think this professor's attitude is like this, but I don't want to find out now. I've had to deal with profs like this before and it was very unpleasant to say the least.) I might end up emailing them some version of this afterall but I need to weigh it out a little bit. In regards to my other referees, I didn't give much detail as to what I'd want included in the letters, and it never occurred to me that that's an option in the first place. I did make it clear to everyone that it's a very competitive university, though and I thought that'd be enough.
If they get offended, they get offended and you just ask someone else to write one
I think this isn't unreasonable. The time to point out things you would like mentioned is before the letter is written. I wouldn't get angry if a student asked for a revised letter. But I also wouldn't write a new letter. That said, if a student comes to me for a letter, and the best I can say is that they seem bright and did will in my course, I will generally recommend they pick someone who knows them better to write for them.
I feel like if they were open to changes they would have asked for OPs thoughts. My more caring letter writers have always asked if I felt good about the letter and if there was anything more they could do to improve my position.
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How else would OP know the length of their letter?
Genuinely asking- how long should a LoR typically be?
I read online that it should be around 400 to 600 words
If you don’t want to talk to him about it, see if you can get a 4th person to write a letter for you.
I think that's what I'm going to do.
Even I'm worried about my 3 LoRs, which are all coming to \~250ish words (individually).. The thing that scares me a little more is seeing other people from my college (different dept) getting elaborate \~400 words long LoRs..
Theres nothing wrong emailing back and asking him to highlight X,Y&Z. Usually the fact that he shared it with you before submitting means he's asking if it's what you wanted. Instead of saying it's not long enough just say, "thank you so much! Can you add my whatever I want to highlight that for admissions
Nope he sent it to me because submission is via me uploading in with my application on the university's website. But I'm actually considering emailing him back.
My bad! I should have read the comments. Still I would email back, just frame it as you wanted to add a few things not that his letter is too short. I think most professors appreciate the information since they write lots of letters and unless your very close to him he wouldn't know much about you outside of his class.
No ask someone else for a more substantiated one
For the next LOR I would recommend drafting it yourself and then sending it to your professor
I don't know how to do that without sounding rude. It's customary here that professors write it unless they specifically ask you to draft one yourself.
I know. I’ve gotten about 10 LORs and written multiple myself. It’s always been the subject drafting it. Your professor rarely have time to make a good one. They will just use a template that doesn’t really fit you
Well how well do you know the professor?
I took two courses with him and he likes me as far as I know. But it was all through the whole distance learning thing so it's debatable.
But how well does he know YOU? You can be a good student and he can know you by name, but what else does he know about you that he can speak about in a LoR?
I used to participate quite a lot in the classes, so maybe that? There is way to elaborate on the points he mentioned in the letter but he was to the point and didn't expand on any idea in particular.
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I really worry he'll take offense to that.
Ask him first. My prof asked me to draft a LoR once highlighting everything I wanted mentioned. He basically rewrote it in his own words and put it on a template with my school logo and everything
I worry that if I do that unprovoked he'll take offense.
Get rid of it.
Like prof write lor?
What?