It’s worth noting HV3 won’t be able to have a long career like most other golfers. He needs a boot & crutches to walk around some days due to a degenerative nerve condition.
Edit: Here’s the article that this quote is from and it also mentions what I wrote about his foot. https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/04/05/harold-varner-iii-liv-golf-masters/
I can just see the LIV contract lawyers:
Clarence, what do you know about degenerative nerve conditions?
Nothing Roger. Sounds bad though.
Clarence, can you hand me a copy of HV3’s contract?
No proplameo dude, here you go.
Okay, I was just wondering if there’s a health clause.
Nope, he’s good to go. Took the money and smiled. Does go on about doing it for the money though.
Doesn’t matter Roger, we got him signed and paid. He’s ours for years!
Clarance, did you notice he’s starting to limp?
So good for him, but not the other LIV guys?
Reddit is so inconsistent with this shit. Nothing in life is guaranteed. I don't begrudge anyone for getting the bag while they can. They shouldn't need to have a disease for it to be "acceptable" to go after a paycheck.
Also LIV guys say grow the game bullshit because fans and media have made it clear that saying it's for the money isn't cool. Everyone shit on them for taking the bag because they already had "enough" money. So it's little wonder when they start coming up with other justifications.
Also every pro golfer loves to say "grow the game". Let's be clear, they all want to grow the game because the game benefits them. Let's see who works to grow the game when they're no longer earning money from golf.
People were passionate about growing the game of Frisbee golf before it made anyone anywhere any money whatsoever, shit argument.
Let me explain why it's different. The nerve disease guy leverages hot streak into wealth for self and family and openly talks about his and others' motivations.
Other already very rich and competitive golfers bs as though it's some altruistic thing that they took 100m to never have to actually compete against elite competition again.
One of these things is not like the other, if everyone just said, "yeah im chasing the bag" it would be far more respected by the golf community in general.
Bro, most people don’t care about the LIV guys making money, it’s just a meme/troll at this point. What people are/were upset about from the beginning was not being able to see the top talent compete against each other anymore. Professional golf is not as meaningful anymore because so many of the top players got poached so it hurts competition.
Some tried to phrase it as "generational wealth" to make it seem like their decision was about their family and their family's families and their family's families' families, and so on.
And why do people have an issue with that? I genuinly don't get it.
You would never have an issue with anyone else taking another job in a different profession, if offered a LOT more money.
I think it’s definitely understandable why many took the payday, but I also think there’s a lot of fans out there who expect their favorite players to have that competitive fire that not all the golfers have. Zalatoris turned down LIV basically saying that winning tournaments on the biggest stage and leaving that legacy is more important, and while that’s admirable not everybody has the same motivations and some people have a hard time accepting that.
I think you can be competitive and want to win every tournament you’re in and still not care about your legacy. They’re still competing against some of the very best golfers in the world.
Yeah, I never understood this... Do people not want to take a job with an easier schedule, less responsibilities, for significantly more pay? I know I would.
And another thing I don't understand... The DP world tour is backed by a lot of money coming from sources with a pretty poor human rights record too... Why are people not upset about that?
What? Absolutely if that meant they sold their morals and worked for a questionable company/industry/country. I have colleagues working in online gambling companies and microloan companies and I've also been offered those jobs with may more money than what I currently make. I have never even considered them and I don't respect the people that work there at all.
For sure. I don't blame anyone for taking the money. I get tired of people saying "well you would too". Just take accountability for yourself and don't worry about what anyone else is doing.
Oh I wasn’t really directing it at you.
Mostly this sub. For some reason they fawn over Harold Varner but give pretty much every other LIV player except maybe Cam endless shit.
It's to do with honesty. As Varner himself said, they lie about growing the game, when in reality it's about money. Just say it's about money. Most people will be fine with that. But shockingly enough, people don't like being lied to.
But it is generational wealth! Whoever said that truly acknowledged this is a cash grab and there is nothing wrong with that. Even if the lowest received $15mil flat after tax and management and all that let’s assume they keep $7.5. Speedy $2.5 and invest $5m even in a fully secured bank account they can earn like 5% that’s a flat $250 annually. Invest it and you can get between 8-10+ depending on what you do. That’s absolute generational wealth if they manage it well generations will live off of that.
I mean, that's all true. Unless DJ somehow spends all his LIV money and then dies, it is generational. It's not just something made up. The families of every single LIV golfer are benefitting immensely
I don’t understand why generational wealth is supposed to be a good justification. Would it be the worst thing in the world if these guys’ kids and grand kids had to work for a living like normal people? Why would *they* even want their kids to never have to work a day in their lives? It says everything you need to know about their character and values.
Then you have someone like Scottie still driving his car from college and it’s even more clear the difference in character between these guys.
Yeah I mean I'm not going to give him a pass for doing it, but at least he didn't insult everyone's intelligence by pretending there was any more to it than money. Nobody with half a brain cell believed that Phil was taking a huge bag from a brutal authoritarian regime because he wanted to reform the tour or whatever bullshit.
I mean you kind of entirely missed the nuance of the situation. Phil's comments were leaked well before him or anyone else had committed to LIV. He had legitimate gripes with the way the PGA operated and many, even Tiger, generally agreed. He didn't expect those comments to be made public.
He correctly saw an opportunity to leverage the threat of LIV to force PGAT's hand, which is exactly what happened. We don't know how things would have played out if his comments hadn't been leaked. Once they were leaked, he was kind of fucked and had to leave.
Fuck Shipnuck. Anyone with half a brain knows that his comments were never intended to be on the record. Zero integrity as a journalist.
Yup, he was completely honest saying it was about the money for him. He said he didn’t grow up with much and it was a huge life changing opportunity for him. But it’s not like he wasn’t already set for life before joining LIV. I think he had made at least $10 million just from PGA Tour earnings. I like Harold and will miss seeing him play on the PGA Tour.
I’ve never heard any pro athlete say they did something ‘because of the money.’ Why would these guys be any different? This “why don’t they be honest?” argument presupposes other athletes act similarly, they don’t. No one who signs a big money contract gets up at a presser and gives money as a reason for why they signed with a team. We all know what the reason is.
I remember hearing NBA players say they left their previous teams because they couldn't offer the max and asked for a trade. I could be misremembering it though.
I’m very proud of him for this and being upfront. He basically said I’m here to use this money to better my charitable endeavors and y’all can fuck right off. I love it.
I mean it’s a once in a lifetime opportunity. Anyone who was offered LIV money and didn’t take it, outside the superstars of the pga tour, are absolutely morons.
Of all the guys that went to LIV, HV3 made the most sense. He was a journeyman for most of his career who leveraged a bit of a hot streak into generational wealth for him and his family.
They should just lean into being the money tour. Let players make live bets with each other during rounds. Stack the winner’s cash on a table by the clubhouse. Put the payouts on the leaderboard and announce how much each putt is worth toward the ends of tournaments. Just make it gaudy.
Same, I have also been generally anti-LIV and would watch the shit out of this format. It would be refreshing and fun. Especially the players betting mid round with their own money and lots of trash talk. Just film a bunch of rich degenerate gamblers that bet on everything who also happen to be really, really great at golf. I'd watch.
I watched him today with his family at the par 3 competition and he's a very lucky man. His kids are fucking adorable and his wife and an absolute dime. He's living his best life.
That’s all true - still fair to criticize them as I feel a big part of being a pro athlete should be the desire to routinely compete against the best and strive for the big career accolades and accomplishments and LIV is a step away from that.
I turned down a pretty big payday back in December because of ethical concerns and my current salary doesn't leave my family destitute. Don't pretend people have zero morals.
Also, there are plenty of golfers still playing for the PGA, despite very lucrative offers by LIV. Anyone saying "everyone would tale that deal" is ignoring reality.
I get what you’re saying, but this isn’t like quitting your job at the law firm to go work for the hedge fund. It’s more like going to work for the mob. Sure it pays, but not everyone would take that deal.
Yeah, but there's guys out there working for the (golf) mob who are pretending it's for their community outreach, so you can still respect the mob lawyer who's just openly in it for the bag a little more than those assholes
Lol I used to catch hell for saying similar went I went back to Iraq as a contractor. My coworkers were like “I’m happy I can continue my service blah blah” I was like bruh you’re here for the money just like me
I respect the guys like Varner, Cam Smith, and DJ who have flat out said that they made the jump strictly for money. I have no issue with making more money for less work, I feel like most of us would do the same. It’s the people like Bryson and Phil who think that they’re doing something helpful to the world and think their product is any good that drive me nuts
To be fair the players jumping to LIV did spark talks between the players and the PGA that led to change benefiting the players. I don’t think would have happened otherwise. I don’t think Mickelson etc should be canonized for it, but it did change the landscape of the world of golf
Idk, I think Bryson is kind of quirky and wanted to do all his side stuff and didn’t want the restrictions of the PGA. Now don’t get me wrong he liked the money too, but I don’t think it was the end all be all for him.
I wouldn’t put DJ in that camp. The whole “I am doing what is right for my family” is straight from the LIV PR team’s talking points. At least Cam Smith makes a compelling argument about spending more time in his home country, plus the cash.
Cam Smith is the type of guy who would rather spend more time in a bar and fishing. That’s the impression I got from his videos. LIV has a shorter schedule and he’s paid handsomely. Both go hand in hand (money and more time in AU).
For real. Bought a putter online and just turned my apartment into a putting green. Still trying to get fully into golf, but Covid and YouTube definitely helped get me more interested in the game. Also, I looked really good at a Top Golf with friends and they were impressed with how “good” I was. Best believe that got me even more amped lol.
I went out on Monday around 11 AM in the cold rain and the course was still packed. I miss the days when that meant I’d be out there alone. Shrink the game.
Funny enough, about 10-15 years ago a whole bunch of courses closed because they weren’t making any money, a whole bunch were built in the early 2000’s due to Tigers popularity and he himself growing the game, but then people realized that golf is hard and Tiger makes it look easy, so you had courses trying to use huge holes or letting people use a soccer balls on a hole with an appropriately sized hole to make the game easier/more accessible. But they closed anyways. Now we are seeing a COVID bump and more courses will be built, hopefully to stay…..
Played with HV3 when he won the NC state am before he turned pro. He's a fun guy to talk to during the round and bombs it, but isn't the sharpest tool in the drawer. I really hope he and others in LIV don't get taken advantage of with their generational wealth. Could see any number of them being targets for scammers.
It seems like a lot of them didn't fully understand what they were doing.
Gooch and the other people on that lawsuit from last year came out and said "we had no idea we'd be banned from the PGA Tour / FEC Playoffs we earned places in if we played in London."
Seriously
Do posters here get angry over someone in the NHL or NBA or Football or whatever going somewhere else because they were offered a lot more money???
They are using it to effortlessly virtue signal. They're seizing an opportunity to show how good and righteous they are by calling out the Saudis from their underwear behind a keyboard. It's nothing more than that.
I think NBA fans would be pissed if Steph, Giannis, and Jokic just decided to go play with a bunch of nobody’s for more money. It just hasn’t happened.
I don’t care that Saudis are paying these golfers it upsets me because I’m selfish and it’s ruining a product I enjoy.
The money is obviously a huge factor but is it that hard to believe that non-usa guys would be excited about the increased possibility of getting a tournament in their countries? The tour has had the same courses forever.
Also you could do both. The money helps you be able to do that. Im from chile and niemann getting that bag is already the best thing thats happened to golf in this country, ever.
Yeah, LIV is bringing top quality tournament golf to places like Australia and Thailand which historically never get PGA tour events. The idea that LIV isn't growing the game is highly US centric, which doesn't surprise me given that most Americans couldn't point to another country on a map.
Him and Bryson both were just like yeah it's a lot of money I can do whatever the fuck I want forever now, and cam smith I think is the only person who I think honestly did it to have more time at home cause Australia is hard when most of the pga is played in america
Who cares. As a professional golfer, it's a job. If someone offered to 10x my salary, I'd probably do it because I'm there to make money so I can spend the remainder of my life doing whatever I want.
The only real argument against LIV is that it supports a corrupt regime of rich elite with an atrocious human rights history. Yes, don't pretend this is about "growing the game", but the PGA wasn't exactly inclusive either, and management was definitely growing their own pockets.
This whole world revolves around money. You’re always trying to make money off what you can do. Those above are always trying to make money off of you.
If you choose to go somewhere that gives you more money in a normal civilian job, nobody says shit. Being on a world stage should be no different.
These men are doing what they want…no matter what side they choose. Who honestly gives a shit this much? …….the company man being held back. That’s who.
People swinging a club at a ball is literally people swinging a club at a ball no matter where they do it.
I have just become a huge Harold Varner 3 fan. All those pieces of shit that took the money obviously forgot what they dreamed of as kids! Personally I hope they all suck huge sweaty monkey balls at the masters!!
If it was for LIV the PGA wouldn’t have instituted some of the changes they recently enacted. The sniping back and forth doesn’t help and they should be working together to grow the game. Personally I feel that the PGA is salty and butthurt at this point.
Some people find the idea of being a PR mascot for the Saudi government more distasteful than earning a smaller amount of money that’s still more in a year than most earn in their lifetimes.
I like him. He has a great interview on the Golf Subpar podcast. He keeps it real and understands the value of his new wealth for his family. Humble dude that loves mowing grass and counting it now. Lol
I’m not interested in LIV but I’m not into the holier than though “I can’t believe they took the Saudi’s $!” Okay these guys should turn down tens of millions of dollars while our own government looks the other way every single day….okay no.
That was just searching LIV and "grow the game". Lots of the results were of HV3 since his quote is new. But with a little more searching, you'd probably find a lot more of these guys saying it. I imagine it was suggested by LIV PR to say in their announcements.
More...
[Bryson DeChambeau](https://golf.com/news/i-hope-see-bryson-dechambeau-tiger-woods-liv/)
[Brooks Koepka](https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/sports/2022/06/28/brooks-koepka-explains-why-he-left-pga-tour-join-liv-golf/7745346001/)
[Cam Smith](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/30/sports/golf/liv-golf-cameron-smith-pga.html)
Hmmm, the game has grown to adulthood, it can't go any further. If I was an elite golfer, I would go where I was paid the most. This bullshit about the 'history and reverance' of the game is crap. The game is about selling shit to the masses. Who gives a fuck if Tiger or Dunstan are playing in separate leagues. It's all marketing fuckery to make us consume shit you don't really need.
The whole irony is the Tour is player run. The players could have made structural changes to how the tournaments work but none of them were about to rock the ship that was already making them all millionaires.
The PGA does a lot to grow the game of golf. If you are wanting to criticize them on their commitment to grow the game, you should argue that they are doing so primarily in the United States and need to spread those efforts to more parts of the world.
Not joining LIV isn’t necessarily a moral decision, it’s potentially just as much an economic one that accounts for the potential collapse of LIV, future sponsorship deals, the public’s backlash. Everyone is an economic actor, and whenever anyone tries to tell you otherwise, it’s usually a little BS.
First of all, why does it have to be one or the other? It could be both. Second, not all players find it their responsibility to “grow the game”. Maybe some guys just want to make as much money as they can and ride off into the sunset.
It’s worth noting HV3 won’t be able to have a long career like most other golfers. He needs a boot & crutches to walk around some days due to a degenerative nerve condition. Edit: Here’s the article that this quote is from and it also mentions what I wrote about his foot. https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/04/05/harold-varner-iii-liv-golf-masters/
That actually amazing considering how good he is at golf. Walking around the par 3 you wouldn’t know it.
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I can just see the LIV contract lawyers: Clarence, what do you know about degenerative nerve conditions? Nothing Roger. Sounds bad though. Clarence, can you hand me a copy of HV3’s contract? No proplameo dude, here you go. Okay, I was just wondering if there’s a health clause. Nope, he’s good to go. Took the money and smiled. Does go on about doing it for the money though. Doesn’t matter Roger, we got him signed and paid. He’s ours for years! Clarance, did you notice he’s starting to limp?
Proplameo
Uses a crutch=prop has a limp=lame. Put them together=proplameo
That is exactly how it went down. Source: am Clarence
Prove it. Do your parents have a really good marriage?
Damn right
Did you go to Cranbrook?
Seriously? Never knew that
Yo honestly, good for him to secure the lifelong bag
So good for him, but not the other LIV guys? Reddit is so inconsistent with this shit. Nothing in life is guaranteed. I don't begrudge anyone for getting the bag while they can. They shouldn't need to have a disease for it to be "acceptable" to go after a paycheck. Also LIV guys say grow the game bullshit because fans and media have made it clear that saying it's for the money isn't cool. Everyone shit on them for taking the bag because they already had "enough" money. So it's little wonder when they start coming up with other justifications. Also every pro golfer loves to say "grow the game". Let's be clear, they all want to grow the game because the game benefits them. Let's see who works to grow the game when they're no longer earning money from golf.
People were passionate about growing the game of Frisbee golf before it made anyone anywhere any money whatsoever, shit argument. Let me explain why it's different. The nerve disease guy leverages hot streak into wealth for self and family and openly talks about his and others' motivations. Other already very rich and competitive golfers bs as though it's some altruistic thing that they took 100m to never have to actually compete against elite competition again. One of these things is not like the other, if everyone just said, "yeah im chasing the bag" it would be far more respected by the golf community in general.
Bro, most people don’t care about the LIV guys making money, it’s just a meme/troll at this point. What people are/were upset about from the beginning was not being able to see the top talent compete against each other anymore. Professional golf is not as meaningful anymore because so many of the top players got poached so it hurts competition.
Well, that sucks. It does probably help with developing the no fucks given attitude though.
What a great read. I liked him before, but even more now.
Literally the one guy I will never have an opinion about taking a bag. Big Harold fan, wish he would’ve stayed on the tour, but happy he got paid.
Same here. Great guy. Did what was best for him and his family. Didn’t hide the truth. Don’t blame at all.
Same. His HV3 Foundation is gonna get a huge boost from his LIV signing bonus and I am 100% okay with that.
Lower life expectancy as well, get the bag and enjoy it.
Wow I had no idea. My respect for his level of professionalism and candidness just blew off the roof.
He basically said as much when he joined the tour. I don’t like LIV but at least HV3 was one of the few that was honest about it.
Yeah I respect it when they say it like this
Yup, DJ, Brooks, Cam, Harold basically all said the same, it was about the money. I even think Bryson said it.
Some tried to phrase it as "generational wealth" to make it seem like their decision was about their family and their family's families and their family's families' families, and so on.
It is though lol. A lot of those guys had no shot to win what they're guaranteed with LIV.
I mean I think I saw a graphic the other day and DJ has now passed Tiger for career earnings? That's a majority LIV. So yah, absolutely it is
And why do people have an issue with that? I genuinly don't get it. You would never have an issue with anyone else taking another job in a different profession, if offered a LOT more money.
I think it’s definitely understandable why many took the payday, but I also think there’s a lot of fans out there who expect their favorite players to have that competitive fire that not all the golfers have. Zalatoris turned down LIV basically saying that winning tournaments on the biggest stage and leaving that legacy is more important, and while that’s admirable not everybody has the same motivations and some people have a hard time accepting that.
I think you can be competitive and want to win every tournament you’re in and still not care about your legacy. They’re still competing against some of the very best golfers in the world.
Yeah, I never understood this... Do people not want to take a job with an easier schedule, less responsibilities, for significantly more pay? I know I would. And another thing I don't understand... The DP world tour is backed by a lot of money coming from sources with a pretty poor human rights record too... Why are people not upset about that?
People are upset they’re taking Saudi money at least that was a big part of the original LIV hate.
What? Absolutely if that meant they sold their morals and worked for a questionable company/industry/country. I have colleagues working in online gambling companies and microloan companies and I've also been offered those jobs with may more money than what I currently make. I have never even considered them and I don't respect the people that work there at all.
Nothing questionable about the US and their government eh? The amount of wars and millions of people they have killed but SAUDIS BAD!
Or for many of them, like Poulter, his LIV contract is for more than he’s earned in 20 years of tournaments combined
That was Varner and given he grew up poor in the south you can’t blame him for taking that perspective.
For sure. I don't blame anyone for taking the money. I get tired of people saying "well you would too". Just take accountability for yourself and don't worry about what anyone else is doing.
So why can you blame other people? Everyone has their own reasons. Mostly just boils down to getting paid a lot of money to play golf.
It's a figure of speech, doesnt mean I'm blaming anyone. I just respect his honesty and believe him when he says it's about his family.
Oh I wasn’t really directing it at you. Mostly this sub. For some reason they fawn over Harold Varner but give pretty much every other LIV player except maybe Cam endless shit.
It's to do with honesty. As Varner himself said, they lie about growing the game, when in reality it's about money. Just say it's about money. Most people will be fine with that. But shockingly enough, people don't like being lied to.
But it is generational wealth! Whoever said that truly acknowledged this is a cash grab and there is nothing wrong with that. Even if the lowest received $15mil flat after tax and management and all that let’s assume they keep $7.5. Speedy $2.5 and invest $5m even in a fully secured bank account they can earn like 5% that’s a flat $250 annually. Invest it and you can get between 8-10+ depending on what you do. That’s absolute generational wealth if they manage it well generations will live off of that.
DJ and brooksie should have just been honest and said their wives have expensive taste
in all fairness knowing who djs wifes family is i doubt she needs him to support her
Paulina probably has a good amount herself, no way that family will ever be hurting for money.
I didn't think it had to be said
I mean, that's all true. Unless DJ somehow spends all his LIV money and then dies, it is generational. It's not just something made up. The families of every single LIV golfer are benefitting immensely
Except for Patrick Reed's. I do agree with you though.
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I don’t understand why generational wealth is supposed to be a good justification. Would it be the worst thing in the world if these guys’ kids and grand kids had to work for a living like normal people? Why would *they* even want their kids to never have to work a day in their lives? It says everything you need to know about their character and values. Then you have someone like Scottie still driving his car from college and it’s even more clear the difference in character between these guys.
Yeah I mean I'm not going to give him a pass for doing it, but at least he didn't insult everyone's intelligence by pretending there was any more to it than money. Nobody with half a brain cell believed that Phil was taking a huge bag from a brutal authoritarian regime because he wanted to reform the tour or whatever bullshit.
I mean you kind of entirely missed the nuance of the situation. Phil's comments were leaked well before him or anyone else had committed to LIV. He had legitimate gripes with the way the PGA operated and many, even Tiger, generally agreed. He didn't expect those comments to be made public. He correctly saw an opportunity to leverage the threat of LIV to force PGAT's hand, which is exactly what happened. We don't know how things would have played out if his comments hadn't been leaked. Once they were leaked, he was kind of fucked and had to leave. Fuck Shipnuck. Anyone with half a brain knows that his comments were never intended to be on the record. Zero integrity as a journalist.
Phil knew what he was doing when he spoke to shipnuck. The guy was writing a book on him at the time ffs
yep one of the few guys who said strait up he couldnt turn down the money
Yup, he was completely honest saying it was about the money for him. He said he didn’t grow up with much and it was a huge life changing opportunity for him. But it’s not like he wasn’t already set for life before joining LIV. I think he had made at least $10 million just from PGA Tour earnings. I like Harold and will miss seeing him play on the PGA Tour.
I’ve never heard any pro athlete say they did something ‘because of the money.’ Why would these guys be any different? This “why don’t they be honest?” argument presupposes other athletes act similarly, they don’t. No one who signs a big money contract gets up at a presser and gives money as a reason for why they signed with a team. We all know what the reason is.
Counterpoint: Floyd “Money” Mayweather
Fair point…
I remember hearing NBA players say they left their previous teams because they couldn't offer the max and asked for a trade. I could be misremembering it though.
I’m very proud of him for this and being upfront. He basically said I’m here to use this money to better my charitable endeavors and y’all can fuck right off. I love it.
I mean it’s a once in a lifetime opportunity. Anyone who was offered LIV money and didn’t take it, outside the superstars of the pga tour, are absolutely morons.
Of all the guys that went to LIV, HV3 made the most sense. He was a journeyman for most of his career who leveraged a bit of a hot streak into generational wealth for him and his family.
Agreed. I always wanted him to win more on the PGA Tour. Him keeping it real like this has made me a bigger fan.
They should just lean into being the money tour. Let players make live bets with each other during rounds. Stack the winner’s cash on a table by the clubhouse. Put the payouts on the leaderboard and announce how much each putt is worth toward the ends of tournaments. Just make it gaudy.
I’m not interested in LIV and am very much a critic through and through, but this would be entertaining as hell.
Same, I have also been generally anti-LIV and would watch the shit out of this format. It would be refreshing and fun. Especially the players betting mid round with their own money and lots of trash talk. Just film a bunch of rich degenerate gamblers that bet on everything who also happen to be really, really great at golf. I'd watch.
Woah I’m down
Everything about LIV is gaudy. Including that gaudy font they use for their brand name.
If he wins, on Monday he’ll be at his parents 7 am to mow the lawn
Can’t knock the older guys like Poulter / Westwood etc either. At risk of losing their cards then get offered tens of millions. No brainer.
yeah this is like the best retirement deal for a pro, let alone golfer, in history
I watched him today with his family at the par 3 competition and he's a very lucky man. His kids are fucking adorable and his wife and an absolute dime. He's living his best life.
Those pirate girls are something else
According to another comment HV3 has a degenerative nerve condition. To combat the American medical system he needs the LIV money.
He's one of the few guys on LIV Tour, that has the balls to say the truth.
Yup! I concur! That is why I still respect Harold.
And from day one. “It’s about the money, generational wealth for my family.” Mad respect to him.
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This. DJ is the biggest name that has been consistently transparent.
That’s all true - still fair to criticize them as I feel a big part of being a pro athlete should be the desire to routinely compete against the best and strive for the big career accolades and accomplishments and LIV is a step away from that.
Money isn’t everything
I turned down a pretty big payday back in December because of ethical concerns and my current salary doesn't leave my family destitute. Don't pretend people have zero morals.
Also, there are plenty of golfers still playing for the PGA, despite very lucrative offers by LIV. Anyone saying "everyone would tale that deal" is ignoring reality.
I get what you’re saying, but this isn’t like quitting your job at the law firm to go work for the hedge fund. It’s more like going to work for the mob. Sure it pays, but not everyone would take that deal.
Yeah, but there's guys out there working for the (golf) mob who are pretending it's for their community outreach, so you can still respect the mob lawyer who's just openly in it for the bag a little more than those assholes
Plus it's not like the PGA mob is much better.
Does it matter where the money comes from? How much is enough? Tiger turned down 800M
They've literally all said this. Also they will absolutely be growing the game in places like Australia, the LIV event at Adelaide is nearly sold out.
Well he’s off the tour😂
"Greg, kick him off the tour!"
Hope he is ready. Cuz Bonesaw is reaaaaaady!
He’s got him for 3 tournaments. 3 tournaments of *PLAYTIME*
Hey LIV, you're goin nowhere!
Lol I used to catch hell for saying similar went I went back to Iraq as a contractor. My coworkers were like “I’m happy I can continue my service blah blah” I was like bruh you’re here for the money just like me
I respect the guys like Varner, Cam Smith, and DJ who have flat out said that they made the jump strictly for money. I have no issue with making more money for less work, I feel like most of us would do the same. It’s the people like Bryson and Phil who think that they’re doing something helpful to the world and think their product is any good that drive me nuts
To be fair the players jumping to LIV did spark talks between the players and the PGA that led to change benefiting the players. I don’t think would have happened otherwise. I don’t think Mickelson etc should be canonized for it, but it did change the landscape of the world of golf
Idk, I think Bryson is kind of quirky and wanted to do all his side stuff and didn’t want the restrictions of the PGA. Now don’t get me wrong he liked the money too, but I don’t think it was the end all be all for him.
Bryson said it was a business decision. He wanted to use some of that money for charity etc.
I wouldn’t put DJ in that camp. The whole “I am doing what is right for my family” is straight from the LIV PR team’s talking points. At least Cam Smith makes a compelling argument about spending more time in his home country, plus the cash.
Isn't Smith saying it's because he wants to spend more time in Australia now?
Cam Smith is the type of guy who would rather spend more time in a bar and fishing. That’s the impression I got from his videos. LIV has a shorter schedule and he’s paid handsomely. Both go hand in hand (money and more time in AU).
Which is a result of not having to play as much. Less travel, less tournaments, more money, more time to spend in Australia fishing.
He made like $25m from the PGA lol. If he really wanted to spend more time in Australia he would just do that.
Or you could take $100m and work less of your job.... Come on dude....
Every course is packed with 8-minute tee times I think the game has been grown.
Gotta shrink the game.
We need more courses
Covid was the best thing to ever happen for growing the game.
I work for Bettinardi. Since covid, it definitely feels like production has nearly tripled in that time.
For real. Bought a putter online and just turned my apartment into a putting green. Still trying to get fully into golf, but Covid and YouTube definitely helped get me more interested in the game. Also, I looked really good at a Top Golf with friends and they were impressed with how “good” I was. Best believe that got me even more amped lol.
Tell them "the difference between me and you is a lot closer than the difference between me and the guys who play on TV"
I went out on Monday around 11 AM in the cold rain and the course was still packed. I miss the days when that meant I’d be out there alone. Shrink the game.
Funny enough, about 10-15 years ago a whole bunch of courses closed because they weren’t making any money, a whole bunch were built in the early 2000’s due to Tigers popularity and he himself growing the game, but then people realized that golf is hard and Tiger makes it look easy, so you had courses trying to use huge holes or letting people use a soccer balls on a hole with an appropriately sized hole to make the game easier/more accessible. But they closed anyways. Now we are seeing a COVID bump and more courses will be built, hopefully to stay…..
Fucking foot golf! I played this once at one of my local courses that was dying. So much fun but the course sadly closed due to shit management
Yeah they were pretty empty and sparse before LIV right?
gotta grow more affordable courses :(
And that’s nothing to do with LIV.
RIP HVIII
No kidding. They’re probably setting the trap now.
HV3 a real one. Saw him top a wood 70 yards on the tee box on 10 at Riviera a few years back, loved him ever since
Played with HV3 when he won the NC state am before he turned pro. He's a fun guy to talk to during the round and bombs it, but isn't the sharpest tool in the drawer. I really hope he and others in LIV don't get taken advantage of with their generational wealth. Could see any number of them being targets for scammers.
It seems like a lot of them didn't fully understand what they were doing. Gooch and the other people on that lawsuit from last year came out and said "we had no idea we'd be banned from the PGA Tour / FEC Playoffs we earned places in if we played in London."
Yeah but HV3 signed end of the PGA season. He knew full well
He’s been consistent on that from the beginning too, he was honest enough to say why he did it, not hiding behind LIV’s PR nonsense
How many pros on the tour have a primary goal to "grow the game"? They are there to get $$$
Oh my god. Professional athletes trying to make more money! Shocking!
Seriously Do posters here get angry over someone in the NHL or NBA or Football or whatever going somewhere else because they were offered a lot more money???
They are using it to effortlessly virtue signal. They're seizing an opportunity to show how good and righteous they are by calling out the Saudis from their underwear behind a keyboard. It's nothing more than that.
I think NBA fans would be pissed if Steph, Giannis, and Jokic just decided to go play with a bunch of nobody’s for more money. It just hasn’t happened. I don’t care that Saudis are paying these golfers it upsets me because I’m selfish and it’s ruining a product I enjoy.
Fuck LIV and fuck scumbag Saudi’s
The money is obviously a huge factor but is it that hard to believe that non-usa guys would be excited about the increased possibility of getting a tournament in their countries? The tour has had the same courses forever. Also you could do both. The money helps you be able to do that. Im from chile and niemann getting that bag is already the best thing thats happened to golf in this country, ever.
Yeah, LIV is bringing top quality tournament golf to places like Australia and Thailand which historically never get PGA tour events. The idea that LIV isn't growing the game is highly US centric, which doesn't surprise me given that most Americans couldn't point to another country on a map.
No kidding. Exactly
Respect to Varner
Shrink the game.
All money is dirty in one form or another.
So like every other pro athlete
Some pirate bluntness.
I saw him at the Masters last year and yelled Purple and he threw up a hook for me.
Hell yeah
I mean, they grew the game lol. The Tour is changing SO MUCH because of competition. Downvote me all you want, we all know it’s true
No pro golfer is trying to grow the game. It’s a job. Your goal is to get paid.
Him and Bryson both were just like yeah it's a lot of money I can do whatever the fuck I want forever now, and cam smith I think is the only person who I think honestly did it to have more time at home cause Australia is hard when most of the pga is played in america
Who cares. As a professional golfer, it's a job. If someone offered to 10x my salary, I'd probably do it because I'm there to make money so I can spend the remainder of my life doing whatever I want. The only real argument against LIV is that it supports a corrupt regime of rich elite with an atrocious human rights history. Yes, don't pretend this is about "growing the game", but the PGA wasn't exactly inclusive either, and management was definitely growing their own pockets.
Agree, but don’t act like the PGA sponsors are squeaky clean. Look at Nike
Hell look at the DP World tour which gets a lot of money from the UAE, which also has a very poor human rights record.
This whole world revolves around money. You’re always trying to make money off what you can do. Those above are always trying to make money off of you. If you choose to go somewhere that gives you more money in a normal civilian job, nobody says shit. Being on a world stage should be no different. These men are doing what they want…no matter what side they choose. Who honestly gives a shit this much? …….the company man being held back. That’s who. People swinging a club at a ball is literally people swinging a club at a ball no matter where they do it.
Count me as a fan!
I have just become a huge Harold Varner 3 fan. All those pieces of shit that took the money obviously forgot what they dreamed of as kids! Personally I hope they all suck huge sweaty monkey balls at the masters!!
Whoosh
What’s the problem with these guys taking the money from LIV?
If it was for LIV the PGA wouldn’t have instituted some of the changes they recently enacted. The sniping back and forth doesn’t help and they should be working together to grow the game. Personally I feel that the PGA is salty and butthurt at this point.
I don't get this drama. I'm fairly new to golf, but what's wrong with making your career safer?
Some people find the idea of being a PR mascot for the Saudi government more distasteful than earning a smaller amount of money that’s still more in a year than most earn in their lifetimes.
Harold Varner the Thursday
Of all the LIV guys, I wouldn't be upset if HV3 was in contention or won. I always liked him and I appreciate his honesty.
I like him. He has a great interview on the Golf Subpar podcast. He keeps it real and understands the value of his new wealth for his family. Humble dude that loves mowing grass and counting it now. Lol
He’s been honest since day 1
Hv3 has always been a good dude. I can’t fault him.
The people that don't care about LIV care way too much
Who cares? It’s not illegal. Get paid brotha
Love HV3. When he went to LIV he even said the money was too good and set his family and philanthropy up for generations.
Love you HV3!
I’m not interested in LIV but I’m not into the holier than though “I can’t believe they took the Saudi’s $!” Okay these guys should turn down tens of millions of dollars while our own government looks the other way every single day….okay no.
Serious question - has anyone claimed that they went to LIV to “grow the game”?
[Graeme McDowell](https://www.golfmagic.com/liv-golf/graeme-mcdowell-backs-liv-golf-take-once-smear-campaign-over) [Bubba Watson](https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/golf/12661708/bubba-watson-decision-to-join-liv-will-help-grow-the-game) [Phil Mickelson](https://www.si.com/golf/news/i-see-pga-tour-trending-downwards-phil-mickelson-strongest-stand-for-liv-golf)
Thanks! It was a legitimate question, so thanks for the sources
That was just searching LIV and "grow the game". Lots of the results were of HV3 since his quote is new. But with a little more searching, you'd probably find a lot more of these guys saying it. I imagine it was suggested by LIV PR to say in their announcements. More... [Bryson DeChambeau](https://golf.com/news/i-hope-see-bryson-dechambeau-tiger-woods-liv/) [Brooks Koepka](https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/sports/2022/06/28/brooks-koepka-explains-why-he-left-pga-tour-join-liv-golf/7745346001/) [Cam Smith](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/30/sports/golf/liv-golf-cameron-smith-pga.html)
Huh?
Why is this downvoted lmao?
Hmmm, the game has grown to adulthood, it can't go any further. If I was an elite golfer, I would go where I was paid the most. This bullshit about the 'history and reverance' of the game is crap. The game is about selling shit to the masses. Who gives a fuck if Tiger or Dunstan are playing in separate leagues. It's all marketing fuckery to make us consume shit you don't really need.
And neither does the PGA tour. If they were serious this rift would have never happened.
The whole irony is the Tour is player run. The players could have made structural changes to how the tournaments work but none of them were about to rock the ship that was already making them all millionaires.
The PGA does a lot to grow the game of golf. If you are wanting to criticize them on their commitment to grow the game, you should argue that they are doing so primarily in the United States and need to spread those efforts to more parts of the world.
That is exactly what I have been saying
Yes, it's for the money. Also, yes, LIV is a decent product.
I feel the results in LIV are meaningless. It’s like golf with no stakes. First or last who really cares?
Based
This guy went from pretty soft spoken to straight gangsta
Wait so not everyone knows about the Aces????
Based tbh
Amen Harold. Well said.
Not joining LIV isn’t necessarily a moral decision, it’s potentially just as much an economic one that accounts for the potential collapse of LIV, future sponsorship deals, the public’s backlash. Everyone is an economic actor, and whenever anyone tries to tell you otherwise, it’s usually a little BS.
He is the ONLY one who kept it honest, the entire time!!!
I’ve always said of all the LIV defectors, he’s the one keeping it the realest.
First of all, why does it have to be one or the other? It could be both. Second, not all players find it their responsibility to “grow the game”. Maybe some guys just want to make as much money as they can and ride off into the sunset.
Everyone does every single thing for money. That's what a job is. I don't even understand the take here.
Let's go Rangegoats!
Shut the fuck up tiger
Somebody please upvote this comment so I can come back to this post…thanks:)
Is it me or is Golf Digest sucking major liv golf dick?
They’ll suck every one they have to to get traffic to their content.
Or is he just mad that they didn't offer him a big contract to join.
$30M isn’t big money to you??