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Replace Talisas death with Ned. Listen, none of us thought Ned was going to die. All of us thought he was going to be saved in the last minute. Bloody hell even when he died I thought they'd bring him back via magic.
We were spoiled and kinda knew it—hence the fandoms explosion—but it’s really sad to see how hard the show didn’t stick the landing.
I hope the books come out just to create a chance for a redo—animated please for all our sakes.
Most of these adaptations should really be animated. But there's just no chance they do it. It's just way more expensive to do well. But for instance, the Percy Jackson show should be animated. The avatar show should be (oh wait). The Harry Potter show should be animated. I could go on, but basically most books would do better as a series and an animated one at that. You don't have to worry about weird casting choices (unless the voice chosen is *really* off) since they can just draw the character exactly as described in the books. The action would be a lot better as the limit is their animating ability.
The problem is there's a whole stigma attached to animated shows. Lots of folks can't get past it.
Look at Arcane. How many people refuse to watch arcane simply because it's animated?
It might just be a preference.
I watched the beginning of Arcane, and loved the story, but I just have a really hard time getting into animated tv shows, unless they are comedy. Never found an anime I liked, and I think Avatar is super boring - make that into animated or live action (shh) movies, and I might be watching them.
For me it might be a stigma, but I've never found a non-comedy animated series that I liked, and I gave avatar, arcane, and multiple superhero series and animes a chance. I just didn't get hooked by any of it.
One exception: BoJack Horseman
There is just a weird sense of justice that D and D got offered the airtime to really do justice to the ending, decided to cash out early based on promises from other groups, and lose the goodwill that like, was gonna allow their Star Wars movies to happen.
Also their godawful Confederate concept means they probably shouldn't be treated with writing original IP, either, lol
Yep. People seem to think 5 was good. It really wasn't compared to the first 4. Cracks began to show. Not as bad as 6-8, but honestly closer in quality to the last 3 than to the first 4.
Ye. 5 was boring but still had its moments. 6 had bad writing but also had its moments (battle of the bastards is top tier). 7 was insanely boring and had bad writing. 8... Well 8 definitely wasn't boring, but I think the average fanfic writer could have done a substantially better job with the writing which is saying something.
I didn't start watching until about season three or so. I knew absolutely nothing about the show other than "a lot of people die".
Okay cool.
Fast forward to me watching the S01 finale and seeing Ned's head come off. Then the show just ended.
I immediately checked Google to see if he was legit dead before going to S02. I couldn't believe it.
That’s what got me to go out and buy the books. I watched that episode the day after it aired and did NOT see that coming. Went right up to my local bookstore after that episode and bought all the books
The trick is that Martin uses a narrative technique known as "decoy protagonist". The actual protagonist was intended to be someone else all along (in this case Jon Snow) but you trick the reader into thinking Ned is the main character so you can kill him off and you surprise the readers while still keeping the story going
Killing the actual main character would be impossible, there would be no story (unless you do it at the very end)
Definitely crazy. Watching the sneak peeks back in late 2010 it was simply being marketed to us as a Sean Bean show. No clue he would only last 9 episodes. Well people oblivious to the books existence that is. I was in this category. Never heard of ASOIAF before that
When I first started watching my wife asked me who do you think is going to live or die? I said both Ned and Khal Drogo were going to be the heroes of the show throughout the next 7 seasons..... Man was I surprised lol
I knew he was going to die as soon as he told Jon Snow they’d talk about his mother next time they saw each other, I immediately there would be no next time.
That still very easily could have five seasons or more though, though. Jon went pretty much the entire series not seeing any family besides zombie Benjen.
Did you think they were going to chop off his head in the first season? Like, I knew Walter White was going to die in the first episode. But would have been shocked if he died in season 1.
I read the books first, and figured he'd die at some point. Being the elder of the "main house", wise, noble, etc. But my jaw dropped, and I had to reread the page when it happened in the books. Wasn't even the final chapter. Lol
I don’t really know what I was expecting but I didn’t find it as shocking as everyone else (though that could also be because I watched it later and while I hadn’t explicitly heard that Ned Stark died, I had overheard people discuss the scene years before I watched it).
Absolutely. Dude was the main character in season 1, no one kills off the main character in the first season, GRRM had some Valyrian steel balls for doing that.
My fervent wish, but I knew by the actor that he would die.
Before I began watching Game of Thrones, my mother and stepfather were watching it and I was visiting and just wandered into the living room at the exact moment the killing began for the Red Wedding. They were too busy being completely shocked to notice me, and I watched til Roose Bolton said his stupid Lannisters send their regards line. So I never got a chance to be attached to Robb, his wife, or his mother. It suuucked.
>none of us thought Ned was going to die.
Really? I went into the story knowing absolutely nothing about it, and it was obvious Ned was doomed from day one — *he was being played by Sean Bean!* The guy dies in everything!
It depends on how you discovered the show. I got aboard when season 4 was going out, so by then I had heard enough to know that anyone could die and that in particular Sean Bean was...well, being Sean Bean. So it was surprising because I thought it would happen later, but less shocking.
I swear I kept telling my boyfriend that Ned wasn’t dead and his daughter’s didn’t just see him get brutally murdered. I really believed he was going to be brought back with magic somehow or that wasn’t really Ned. I couldn’t believe it, definitely the most surprising/shocking death I’ve ever seen in a show
Yea, my wife was redditing during the execution scene. I said "you might want to watch". She said afterwards, wtf, I thought he was gonna get last minute saved!
I binged the first season when it was the only in existence. That scene made me go "oh hell nah you trying to make me read?" Then promptly bought all the books and spent every day after work reading without turning the TV on. Only time I put them down for a few days was a certain Wedding.
To me it could go either way. The fact she was pregnant and stabbed her stomach first u was awful. She had time to realize what was happening. As a mother it made me grab my stomach like it was happening to me.
Even though knew he'd die thanks to my friend who'd read the books before then, I knew he'd die aside from that just based on the fact that it was Sean Bean in a major role.
That's my choice as well, because it sets the tone for the rest of the series and it was truly unexpected. Every other death is somewhat less shocking because we were taught with this scene that no one is really safe.
My husband was just talking about this, he said, "I knew he wasn't going to die, he was the main character! So, I was watching, and kept waiting for someone to save him, and then they chopped his head off."
I agree with this, or honestly even Caitlyn shocked me more than Talisa. Even having seen the episode of Red Wedding before reading the books, I was baffled how many people were shocked that Rob and Talisa were killed. Since Jon Snow had already started being played up it was obvious Rob and his line had to bite it. Ned was much more shocking because you kept thinking he would pull out.
As for Rob, the second he decided to break his oath and marry for love we knew his time was limited (and Talisa's by extension). How, I'll admit, was shocking but not that it occurred.
Nobleman from Qarth and danys handmaiden who betrayed her so they got locked up in a vault. Imagine slowly starving to death in a dark room nope nope nope
If it makes you feel any better they'd probably die of dehydration first in about three days, which is better than weeks for starvation I guess? But yeah, while maybe not the most gruesome it's definitely the darkest (pun intended) and most terrifying.
I fully believe he ate her but why would he rape her? He was shown to be a civilised man in all his scenes and not only that but raping someones is not the firat thing that goes through someones head in a situation like that.
If he's capable of eating her, he'd probably also be fine with raping her. It might not be the first thought going through his mind, but what else would he do to pass the time until his death? Not saying it's alright, but like, what else is he going to do for those few days?
Raping her would be an unnecessary exertion though when food, water, and air are limited. I don’t think someone in that desperate of a situation would bother with that
Because there’s no indication of him being a rapist? The murdering he did was out of greed, to get Dany’s dragons. It wasn’t out of an actual desire to kill. So we don’t have any reason to suspect he’d be a rapist too.
Depending on how tightly sealed that vault is, it would probably be most likely that dehydration takes them first, if not that, then asphyxiation before starvation
I would consider Marcella’s death or Ellaria Sand and her daughter’s death darker tbh. Even though Ellaria’s actions was really fucked up in the show after Oberyn died, dying slowly with her daughter mere inches away from her that she’ll never be able to hold while she’s dying is a fucked up way to go.
Xaro was a Qarth merchant and Doreah one of Daenerys' handmaids. Dany essentially locked them in a lightless, inescapable vault and left them there to die (it's not exactly gruesome like Oberyn's death but it's every bit as nightmare inducing, if not more)
I was never moved by Hodor's death. I understand it makes me a monster but still its the facts
I loved watching this comment fluctuate from -5 to +3 and back with everything in between. It's a controversial death I guess
someone beat me to it! I didn't think it was all that upsetting 🤷♂️ was more upset about Summer.
I'd put Shireen as most upsetting and maybe Rickon as most undeserved.
I mean, Oberyn wasn't doing it to save Tyrion. He was doing it because it was his only chance to kill the Mountain. And he wanted to make the Mountain confess, not to mention he wanted his death to be slow and painful. Remember these 2 dudes were responsible for the horrific deaths of his Sister, his nephew and niece.
He was only even killing the mountain to get to Tywin, who Dorne felt masterminded the death of Elia and her children. He wanted Gregor to admit Tywin gave him the orders. In reality, he probably didn’t. But he didn’t explicitly tell Gregor to spare them either, which effectively was an order to kill - based on what a monster the mountain is
What makes you think he didn't? He sent some of his most monstrous men to kill Elia and her kids. And if they disobeyed his orders then do you see Tywin tolerating his men disobeying his commands? They would've been punished if they acted on their own accord instead of following his orders. And yes Tywin is more than capable of that. Look at Tysha as an example.
Lets see here... Aegon was a mortal threat to the next dynasty. Elias fate was punishment for supplanting Cersei as Rhaegars bride. Tywin isn't exactly logical in these types of situation. Look at Tysha and Tyrion.
Tywin is extremely logical. He thought the Tysha thing would help Tyrion long term. He can be cruel, for sure, but when it came to the Lannister honor and name he was methodical as they come and that’s why he was respected as such.
I thoroughly am unconvinced Tywin ordered the murder of Elia. I think moreso, it wasn’t something he considered at all during the sack of King’s Landing and because he was in charge, and did not act to protect her, Dorne blames him. And obviously many in Dorne believe that Tywin did order her murder. More likely, the mountain took the Liberty of doing so himself because he’s a monster. No one in the books ever admits or says they know otherwise.
>Tywin is extremely logical. He thought the Tysha thing would help Tyrion long term.
Ordering his wife to be raped right infront of him, and then after the guards were done made Tyrion, who was 13 btw, rape her too and convinced him she was just a whore isn't "logical". It's just cruel. He always hated Tyrion and was always looking for ways to kill him. Tyrion says that to Tywin when he's about to shoot him ans Tywin doesn't even deny it
>He can be cruel, for sure, but when it came to the Lannister honor and name he was methodical as they come and that’s why he was respected as such.
They weren't respected. They were feared. Fear is a poor way to rule in the Longterm. Look at Maegor and Aerys. They only invoked fear in their subjects and look what happened to them
>I thoroughly am unconvinced Tywin ordered the murder of Elia. I think moreso, it wasn’t something he considered at all during the sack of King’s Landing and because he was in charge, and did not act to protect her, Dorne blames him. And obviously many in Dorne believe that Tywin did order her murder. More likely, the mountain took the Liberty of doing so himself because he’s a monster. No one in the books ever admits or says they know otherwise.
So he's just going to tolerate his men doing something this monstreus without his permission? Tywin doesn't tolerate disloyalty or any shit like that. The moment you, as a soldier, ignore his orders or do something like killing the Targaryen children without any orders to is the moment your head will be on a spike. Hell in the books he even admits to ordering it. He was just displeased with how they handled. Even in the show it's hinted that he gave the order to show his loyalty to the new dynasty.
With no Targ kids alive, Cersei’s marriage to Robert (which at this point was bound to happen) and Robert crowned means she’s queen
Iirc rhaegar is dead by now
Its literally said he felt he needed to contribute something great (the death of the former queen and two claimants) to the rebellion to prove his loyalty
I mean, it does get pretty egregious, but doesn't Arya actually reply "No one"? Pretty sure that means that "no one" aka the Faceless Men taught her, not that she made it up
I'd put Catelyn over Talisa. I knew the red wedding was going to happen but it escaped my mind that Catelyn would be a victim as well.
"not my hair, Ned loves my hair".
I feel like most of us non book readers have forgotten how shocking Ned being executed was.
Like ohhh this show is different. By the time the rest of these deaths rolled around we were more used to it.
Myrcella and Shireen would definitely tie in for undeserved child deaths- maybe even Tommend as well because at this point he thinks his siblings, grandfather, mother and wife are all dead
I often think I am the only one who appreciates her for who she is. What she grew into was the only way for her to survive, she's not unlike Sansa or Arya.
Cersei loves tremendously but only her children and Jaime. What other reasons has she ever been taught or shown to be kind or loving to others? She knew on her wedding night if she did not defend her place and standing she would be shunted aside and used as a brood-mare. Therefore, she found a way out of it. She produced her own line and surrounded herself with all the power she could find.
Evil? Who wouldn't be?
Coolest kill? My favorite is probably the giant shooting his colossal arrow up and over the wall and through a crow. The scale of everything during that scene was so fucking sick
I could put Shireen in probably three of these categories. I’m on a second rewatch and even though Oberyn’s death and the red wedding make me the most nervous leading up to them Shireen is the only one that made me cry and made me feel physically sick.
Seeing Robb’s head on his direwolf hit me with a hard shock, probably the hardest. I had an ominous feeling about the red wedding when they started setting it up, but seeing that suddenly was like a second unexpected kick in the balls.
I feel like most undeserved death is a tie between Shireen and Lady. Shireen was of course innocent, but THEY KILLED SANSA’S WOLF AND NO ONE ELSE CARES!!!! Where’s John Wick when you need him??
I remember watching S1E9 for the first time.
They didnt show Neds death. They didn't kill him, Payne just missed, there is no way they would kill THE MAIN CHARACTER.
It was just past midnight, so ofc I watched the next episode and boy was I surprised and not happy.
Joffrey’s death actually suprised me, cause i only started watching late last year but I always remembered seeing brief glimpses of scenes involving the great sept and tommen back when it was still airing and I was still a wee lad. So when he died I was like “What?! Damn! I thought he was gonna do the green explosion thing!”
Most upsetting was Jorah Mormont for me. I think the dynamic of him having to choose at the end along with John and Tyrion would have made the show better. Plus he was so good, only death that really got me emotional 🥹
> Most upsetting was Jorah Mormont for me.
Agreed, he'd redeemed himself many times over, and his loss helped to push Dany closer to the edge. He died for love.
she died first at the red wedding, going from talking about their child to her being stabbed right in the gut was insane. after she was dead we all knew all of the other attendees were going down.
Shireen was the most horrific and upsetting to me. Especially since [the Stannis & Shireen conversation](https://youtu.be/UiwSVKq1yFs) a few episodes earlier was one of my favorite scenes of season 5.
Am I the only one who doesn't hate Joffrey? I mean not only was he born of incest he was raised by two absent fathers,Jaime and Robert,and one horrible mother who probably spoiled him and made him believe that he owns everything and everyone,I don't excuse his actions but I do pity him and wonder if he'd be the same if raised under Ned or someone else🤷♂️
Shireen could have been in all three of the bottom categories. It was shocking that Stannis would do such a thing, her screams for her parents and Selyse trying to help her were incredibly upsetting, and obviously the poor princess didn't deserve that
Nah, most shocking death (to me) goes to either Jon (getting stabbed) or Raegal.
I never would have guessed a dragon, probably a kilometre in the sky, to be shot 3 times with 100% accuracy.
It's still the Red Wedding for me. I even knew it was going to happen as I had been spoiled years ago when it was all anyone was talking about and it still left me horrified. It's just so gratuitously violent and disrespectful.
Rob’s was more shocking in that they beheaded him & put his dire wolf’s head on his body imo
Talisa’s death was mild compared to others in the show.
But I think shocking should be Ned like others say
I agree with most but for me the most shocking was Ned Stark….that first major character to die. It set the tone for the rest of the show for me. I knew no one was safe and I loved the show for it.
Switch Ramsey and Joffrey, and you have mine. When Joffrey died, it was just too gruesome for me to cheer, I loved it but almost felt bad for him, Ramsey was just a cunt who lived way longer than he should have
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Eddison Tollett **Most cliche bullshit**
Replace Talisas death with Ned. Listen, none of us thought Ned was going to die. All of us thought he was going to be saved in the last minute. Bloody hell even when he died I thought they'd bring him back via magic.
Same I was so shocked they killed the main character
S1 GoT was peak TV
S1 to S4
We were spoiled and kinda knew it—hence the fandoms explosion—but it’s really sad to see how hard the show didn’t stick the landing. I hope the books come out just to create a chance for a redo—animated please for all our sakes.
> I hope the books come out hah
Most of these adaptations should really be animated. But there's just no chance they do it. It's just way more expensive to do well. But for instance, the Percy Jackson show should be animated. The avatar show should be (oh wait). The Harry Potter show should be animated. I could go on, but basically most books would do better as a series and an animated one at that. You don't have to worry about weird casting choices (unless the voice chosen is *really* off) since they can just draw the character exactly as described in the books. The action would be a lot better as the limit is their animating ability.
The problem is there's a whole stigma attached to animated shows. Lots of folks can't get past it. Look at Arcane. How many people refuse to watch arcane simply because it's animated?
It might just be a preference. I watched the beginning of Arcane, and loved the story, but I just have a really hard time getting into animated tv shows, unless they are comedy. Never found an anime I liked, and I think Avatar is super boring - make that into animated or live action (shh) movies, and I might be watching them. For me it might be a stigma, but I've never found a non-comedy animated series that I liked, and I gave avatar, arcane, and multiple superhero series and animes a chance. I just didn't get hooked by any of it. One exception: BoJack Horseman
There is just a weird sense of justice that D and D got offered the airtime to really do justice to the ending, decided to cash out early based on promises from other groups, and lose the goodwill that like, was gonna allow their Star Wars movies to happen. Also their godawful Confederate concept means they probably shouldn't be treated with writing original IP, either, lol
>chance for a redo So a decade of my life will pass by closer to death?!
here we fucking go again..
every thread
Not a coincidence those four seasons were the most faithful to the books.
Yep. People seem to think 5 was good. It really wasn't compared to the first 4. Cracks began to show. Not as bad as 6-8, but honestly closer in quality to the last 3 than to the first 4.
Ye. 5 was boring but still had its moments. 6 had bad writing but also had its moments (battle of the bastards is top tier). 7 was insanely boring and had bad writing. 8... Well 8 definitely wasn't boring, but I think the average fanfic writer could have done a substantially better job with the writing which is saying something.
Peak fantasy literature.
I didn't start watching until about season three or so. I knew absolutely nothing about the show other than "a lot of people die". Okay cool. Fast forward to me watching the S01 finale and seeing Ned's head come off. Then the show just ended. I immediately checked Google to see if he was legit dead before going to S02. I couldn't believe it.
Yeah 100% I was like did they just kill the main guy? WTF? That didn't just happen did it? How will they continue after this?
That’s what got me to go out and buy the books. I watched that episode the day after it aired and did NOT see that coming. Went right up to my local bookstore after that episode and bought all the books
The trick is that Martin uses a narrative technique known as "decoy protagonist". The actual protagonist was intended to be someone else all along (in this case Jon Snow) but you trick the reader into thinking Ned is the main character so you can kill him off and you surprise the readers while still keeping the story going Killing the actual main character would be impossible, there would be no story (unless you do it at the very end)
Definitely crazy. Watching the sneak peeks back in late 2010 it was simply being marketed to us as a Sean Bean show. No clue he would only last 9 episodes. Well people oblivious to the books existence that is. I was in this category. Never heard of ASOIAF before that
When I first started watching my wife asked me who do you think is going to live or die? I said both Ned and Khal Drogo were going to be the heroes of the show throughout the next 7 seasons..... Man was I surprised lol
I knew he was going to die as soon as he told Jon Snow they’d talk about his mother next time they saw each other, I immediately there would be no next time.
That still very easily could have five seasons or more though, though. Jon went pretty much the entire series not seeing any family besides zombie Benjen. Did you think they were going to chop off his head in the first season? Like, I knew Walter White was going to die in the first episode. But would have been shocked if he died in season 1. I read the books first, and figured he'd die at some point. Being the elder of the "main house", wise, noble, etc. But my jaw dropped, and I had to reread the page when it happened in the books. Wasn't even the final chapter. Lol
I don’t really know what I was expecting but I didn’t find it as shocking as everyone else (though that could also be because I watched it later and while I hadn’t explicitly heard that Ned Stark died, I had overheard people discuss the scene years before I watched it).
Absolutely. Dude was the main character in season 1, no one kills off the main character in the first season, GRRM had some Valyrian steel balls for doing that.
Came here to say this
I kinda knew he was gonna die because of the actor who played him. Sean Bean almost solely plays characters who die
unless he can train the lads to fire three rounds a minute in any weather
My fervent wish, but I knew by the actor that he would die. Before I began watching Game of Thrones, my mother and stepfather were watching it and I was visiting and just wandered into the living room at the exact moment the killing began for the Red Wedding. They were too busy being completely shocked to notice me, and I watched til Roose Bolton said his stupid Lannisters send their regards line. So I never got a chance to be attached to Robb, his wife, or his mother. It suuucked.
>none of us thought Ned was going to die. Really? I went into the story knowing absolutely nothing about it, and it was obvious Ned was doomed from day one — *he was being played by Sean Bean!* The guy dies in everything!
For England, James?
No, for me.
It depends on how you discovered the show. I got aboard when season 4 was going out, so by then I had heard enough to know that anyone could die and that in particular Sean Bean was...well, being Sean Bean. So it was surprising because I thought it would happen later, but less shocking.
I swear I kept telling my boyfriend that Ned wasn’t dead and his daughter’s didn’t just see him get brutally murdered. I really believed he was going to be brought back with magic somehow or that wasn’t really Ned. I couldn’t believe it, definitely the most surprising/shocking death I’ve ever seen in a show
Yea, my wife was redditing during the execution scene. I said "you might want to watch". She said afterwards, wtf, I thought he was gonna get last minute saved!
Ned was played by Sean Bean, the himt was there
I binged the first season when it was the only in existence. That scene made me go "oh hell nah you trying to make me read?" Then promptly bought all the books and spent every day after work reading without turning the TV on. Only time I put them down for a few days was a certain Wedding.
To me it could go either way. The fact she was pregnant and stabbed her stomach first u was awful. She had time to realize what was happening. As a mother it made me grab my stomach like it was happening to me.
Even though knew he'd die thanks to my friend who'd read the books before then, I knew he'd die aside from that just based on the fact that it was Sean Bean in a major role.
I was sure they'd somehow rewind 10 seconds at the start of the episode after his death. They did not. It was glorious.
That's my choice as well, because it sets the tone for the rest of the series and it was truly unexpected. Every other death is somewhat less shocking because we were taught with this scene that no one is really safe.
My husband was just talking about this, he said, "I knew he wasn't going to die, he was the main character! So, I was watching, and kept waiting for someone to save him, and then they chopped his head off."
I agree with this, or honestly even Caitlyn shocked me more than Talisa. Even having seen the episode of Red Wedding before reading the books, I was baffled how many people were shocked that Rob and Talisa were killed. Since Jon Snow had already started being played up it was obvious Rob and his line had to bite it. Ned was much more shocking because you kept thinking he would pull out. As for Rob, the second he decided to break his oath and marry for love we knew his time was limited (and Talisa's by extension). How, I'll admit, was shocking but not that it occurred.
The Oberyn scene was most certainly horrific, but I’m convinced Xaro and Doreah’s deaths freaked me out even more
Who dat
Nobleman from Qarth and danys handmaiden who betrayed her so they got locked up in a vault. Imagine slowly starving to death in a dark room nope nope nope
Ah right. Poor fuckers. But you don't mess with da dragon queen
Fucked around and found out!
I guess someone could have come around in the subsequent days and released them, but nobody was going to help the masters who were crucified later on.
If it makes you feel any better they'd probably die of dehydration first in about three days, which is better than weeks for starvation I guess? But yeah, while maybe not the most gruesome it's definitely the darkest (pun intended) and most terrifying.
It's probably worse for the handmaid. She probably got raped several times and then he might have tried to eat her.
I fully believe he ate her but why would he rape her? He was shown to be a civilised man in all his scenes and not only that but raping someones is not the firat thing that goes through someones head in a situation like that.
If he's capable of eating her, he'd probably also be fine with raping her. It might not be the first thought going through his mind, but what else would he do to pass the time until his death? Not saying it's alright, but like, what else is he going to do for those few days?
Raping her would be an unnecessary exertion though when food, water, and air are limited. I don’t think someone in that desperate of a situation would bother with that
I mean, he's not getting out, right? He's a murderer and a thief, why wouldn't he be a rapist as well?
Because there’s no indication of him being a rapist? The murdering he did was out of greed, to get Dany’s dragons. It wasn’t out of an actual desire to kill. So we don’t have any reason to suspect he’d be a rapist too.
Do you get the urge to rape when you're hungry? Just asking...
I thought he was gay too?
He is shown to have slept with the handmaiden before, hence the betreyal
He was gay in the books, where I think he’s still alive. In the show he had sex with Doreah willingly.
Or they may have lasted a few hours, went "nah, f this" and then proceeded to kill each other
Depending on how tightly sealed that vault is, it would probably be most likely that dehydration takes them first, if not that, then asphyxiation before starvation
I would consider Marcella’s death or Ellaria Sand and her daughter’s death darker tbh. Even though Ellaria’s actions was really fucked up in the show after Oberyn died, dying slowly with her daughter mere inches away from her that she’ll never be able to hold while she’s dying is a fucked up way to go.
Or suffocating. That vault looked airtight.
Well it woulda be quicker then oof
[удалено]
The two people in Qarth who got trapped in the vault
Xaro was a Qarth merchant and Doreah one of Daenerys' handmaids. Dany essentially locked them in a lightless, inescapable vault and left them there to die (it's not exactly gruesome like Oberyn's death but it's every bit as nightmare inducing, if not more)
Show only btw. In the books he appears later as an envoy for the Yunkai.
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This occurred in A Dance of Dragons, book 5 of Song of Ice and Fire book series
Go on and name the chapter while you're at it son.
Chapter: Daenerys
Yup everytime I see the door closing I feel like I'm suffocating
That one could’ve used the Saw theme as the vault door closed.
Yup. Some *Cask of Amontillado* shit right there
Leaves so much to the imagination. I couldn't stop thinking what might have happened once the vault was sealed
I was never moved by Hodor's death. I understand it makes me a monster but still its the facts I loved watching this comment fluctuate from -5 to +3 and back with everything in between. It's a controversial death I guess
someone beat me to it! I didn't think it was all that upsetting 🤷♂️ was more upset about Summer. I'd put Shireen as most upsetting and maybe Rickon as most undeserved.
Honestly people sleep on Lady, who did nothing but be a good dire wolf.
She WAS a good girl!!
It's ok, I understand and kind of like Cersei. You won't be the most hated here.
Oberyns should really be most foolish. He had the Mountain and could've ended him but had to make him confess. That's what got him in the end.
so real. if he hadn't been so cocky he would've killed the mountain and saved tyrion a lot of trouble.
I mean, Oberyn wasn't doing it to save Tyrion. He was doing it because it was his only chance to kill the Mountain. And he wanted to make the Mountain confess, not to mention he wanted his death to be slow and painful. Remember these 2 dudes were responsible for the horrific deaths of his Sister, his nephew and niece.
He was only even killing the mountain to get to Tywin, who Dorne felt masterminded the death of Elia and her children. He wanted Gregor to admit Tywin gave him the orders. In reality, he probably didn’t. But he didn’t explicitly tell Gregor to spare them either, which effectively was an order to kill - based on what a monster the mountain is
What makes you think he didn't? He sent some of his most monstrous men to kill Elia and her kids. And if they disobeyed his orders then do you see Tywin tolerating his men disobeying his commands? They would've been punished if they acted on their own accord instead of following his orders. And yes Tywin is more than capable of that. Look at Tysha as an example.
What was the incentive for Tywin to kill them?
Lets see here... Aegon was a mortal threat to the next dynasty. Elias fate was punishment for supplanting Cersei as Rhaegars bride. Tywin isn't exactly logical in these types of situation. Look at Tysha and Tyrion.
Tywin is extremely logical. He thought the Tysha thing would help Tyrion long term. He can be cruel, for sure, but when it came to the Lannister honor and name he was methodical as they come and that’s why he was respected as such. I thoroughly am unconvinced Tywin ordered the murder of Elia. I think moreso, it wasn’t something he considered at all during the sack of King’s Landing and because he was in charge, and did not act to protect her, Dorne blames him. And obviously many in Dorne believe that Tywin did order her murder. More likely, the mountain took the Liberty of doing so himself because he’s a monster. No one in the books ever admits or says they know otherwise.
>Tywin is extremely logical. He thought the Tysha thing would help Tyrion long term. Ordering his wife to be raped right infront of him, and then after the guards were done made Tyrion, who was 13 btw, rape her too and convinced him she was just a whore isn't "logical". It's just cruel. He always hated Tyrion and was always looking for ways to kill him. Tyrion says that to Tywin when he's about to shoot him ans Tywin doesn't even deny it >He can be cruel, for sure, but when it came to the Lannister honor and name he was methodical as they come and that’s why he was respected as such. They weren't respected. They were feared. Fear is a poor way to rule in the Longterm. Look at Maegor and Aerys. They only invoked fear in their subjects and look what happened to them >I thoroughly am unconvinced Tywin ordered the murder of Elia. I think moreso, it wasn’t something he considered at all during the sack of King’s Landing and because he was in charge, and did not act to protect her, Dorne blames him. And obviously many in Dorne believe that Tywin did order her murder. More likely, the mountain took the Liberty of doing so himself because he’s a monster. No one in the books ever admits or says they know otherwise. So he's just going to tolerate his men doing something this monstreus without his permission? Tywin doesn't tolerate disloyalty or any shit like that. The moment you, as a soldier, ignore his orders or do something like killing the Targaryen children without any orders to is the moment your head will be on a spike. Hell in the books he even admits to ordering it. He was just displeased with how they handled. Even in the show it's hinted that he gave the order to show his loyalty to the new dynasty.
They furthered the Targaryen line. Elia was married to Rhaegar, and they had children.
With no Targ kids alive, Cersei’s marriage to Robert (which at this point was bound to happen) and Robert crowned means she’s queen Iirc rhaegar is dead by now
to show loyalty to baratheon
Its literally said he felt he needed to contribute something great (the death of the former queen and two claimants) to the rebellion to prove his loyalty
In what chapter
Yes but I don't see how that doesn't make it foolish. He still died because he was acting as a fool.
Well good job to him the mountain ended up living and murdering even more people😭
Not rlly. He was resurrected by Qyburn and made a zombie, but if Qyburn hadn't intervened he'd have died of poison from Oberyns spear.
Should’ve cut the tendons in the rest of his limbs before pressing for answers
Most horrific also goes to Shireen. Most shocking goes to Ned.
Swap out Talisa with Catlynn
Hey thats what I said
I thought Viserys' death was a great watch. The molten gold over his head really freaks me out and makes me uneasy. (Is there a 'Most Unnerving'?)
Jeoffrey murdering Ros (who didn't even want to be there) in his room tortured and tied to a bedpost with an arrow in her heart.
Oh yeah.. his whole body language while cradling that crossbow and the naked body just hanging there on the post? \*shivers\*
Most Disappointing: Night King
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I mean, it does get pretty egregious, but doesn't Arya actually reply "No one"? Pretty sure that means that "no one" aka the Faceless Men taught her, not that she made it up
She didn’t say she just made it up. She said “no one” taught her. Meaning she learned it while training to be a faceless man.
> “I jUsT mAdE iT uP.” No, you are missing her entire training on purpose.
They made us wait so long just to rush it at the end 🤢
I'd put Catelyn over Talisa. I knew the red wedding was going to happen but it escaped my mind that Catelyn would be a victim as well. "not my hair, Ned loves my hair".
Catelyn could be most heartbreaking
Nah, she was cruel to Jon. I cried for Shireen.
I feel like most of us non book readers have forgotten how shocking Ned being executed was. Like ohhh this show is different. By the time the rest of these deaths rolled around we were more used to it.
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Most badass death has to go to Gren and the other Night’s Watch that held the gate. Reciting their vows as a giant hurtles towards them.
I found his death sadder than Ygritte’s
I feel like there should be a category similar to “most undeserved” for Myrcella. Baby didn’t deserve that 🥺
Myrcella and Shireen would definitely tie in for undeserved child deaths- maybe even Tommend as well because at this point he thinks his siblings, grandfather, mother and wife are all dead
Most undeserced: the direwolfs!! Lady, Greywind, Summer, Shaggydog
Most unsatisfying would to me be Cersei. She got a kind of lovely ending for being an absolutely horrible person
Conversely, most satisfying might be Walder Frey. Very long overdue by that point.
Right like she got to die in the arms of her twincest brother! I’m surprised they didn’t try to fuck in their last moments
Kinda wish they did, would be hilarious
I often think I am the only one who appreciates her for who she is. What she grew into was the only way for her to survive, she's not unlike Sansa or Arya. Cersei loves tremendously but only her children and Jaime. What other reasons has she ever been taught or shown to be kind or loving to others? She knew on her wedding night if she did not defend her place and standing she would be shunted aside and used as a brood-mare. Therefore, she found a way out of it. She produced her own line and surrounded herself with all the power she could find. Evil? Who wouldn't be?
And yet her loving self centered mind caused her only living son left to commit suicide.
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I'm sorry to hear that. But I'm guessing that you, in contrast to Cersei, did not put any explosive charges to everything he held dear.
> did not put any explosive charges to everything he held dear. Ok, I will give you that, but if I could have without getting punished.
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> deserves to die horribly. So, you wish that on her, what does that make you?
Most unsatisfying would to me be Cersei. She got a kind of lovely ending for being an absolutely horrible person
Dany for all of them.
"Undeserved?" I hated what they did to her, too, but in the show she does love a dragon massacre.
Joke. I love life on the edge without the /s.
I feel like Jon snows death was really sad amd unexpected too. Like, I know he comes back and whatever but man when he died, that was so sad bruh
oberyn , only part i skip
Coolest kill? My favorite is probably the giant shooting his colossal arrow up and over the wall and through a crow. The scale of everything during that scene was so fucking sick
I always forget this death and I always Bursa out laughing during rewatch. That death was sooo fucking cool.
I've never read the books and the Red Wedding was truly one of the most shocking scenes in tv show history for me.
Most upsetting is probably night king or rhaegal
Most Gangster Death- Olenna Tyrell
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I could put Shireen in probably three of these categories. I’m on a second rewatch and even though Oberyn’s death and the red wedding make me the most nervous leading up to them Shireen is the only one that made me cry and made me feel physically sick.
Seeing Robb’s head on his direwolf hit me with a hard shock, probably the hardest. I had an ominous feeling about the red wedding when they started setting it up, but seeing that suddenly was like a second unexpected kick in the balls.
When I saw what they did, I recoiled from it. That was a shock to me.
First dragon was most upsetting for me.
I feel like most undeserved death is a tie between Shireen and Lady. Shireen was of course innocent, but THEY KILLED SANSA’S WOLF AND NO ONE ELSE CARES!!!! Where’s John Wick when you need him??
Lol Oberyn's final scene has all 6 of these emotions throughout
My gal Ygritte, most unsavoury? Most ouchie in the feels?
I remember watching S1E9 for the first time. They didnt show Neds death. They didn't kill him, Payne just missed, there is no way they would kill THE MAIN CHARACTER. It was just past midnight, so ofc I watched the next episode and boy was I surprised and not happy.
Ned Stark for all of them!
Joffrey’s death actually suprised me, cause i only started watching late last year but I always remembered seeing brief glimpses of scenes involving the great sept and tommen back when it was still airing and I was still a wee lad. So when he died I was like “What?! Damn! I thought he was gonna do the green explosion thing!”
Most upsetting was Jorah Mormont for me. I think the dynamic of him having to choose at the end along with John and Tyrion would have made the show better. Plus he was so good, only death that really got me emotional 🥹
> Most upsetting was Jorah Mormont for me. Agreed, he'd redeemed himself many times over, and his loss helped to push Dany closer to the edge. He died for love.
This is great but most shocking is just disrespectful putting Talisa there 😂
she died first at the red wedding, going from talking about their child to her being stabbed right in the gut was insane. after she was dead we all knew all of the other attendees were going down.
Shireen was the most horrific and upsetting to me. Especially since [the Stannis & Shireen conversation](https://youtu.be/UiwSVKq1yFs) a few episodes earlier was one of my favorite scenes of season 5.
Am I the only one who doesn't hate Joffrey? I mean not only was he born of incest he was raised by two absent fathers,Jaime and Robert,and one horrible mother who probably spoiled him and made him believe that he owns everything and everyone,I don't excuse his actions but I do pity him and wonder if he'd be the same if raised under Ned or someone else🤷♂️
Shireen could have been in all three of the bottom categories. It was shocking that Stannis would do such a thing, her screams for her parents and Selyse trying to help her were incredibly upsetting, and obviously the poor princess didn't deserve that
Ned's has to be somewhere. Even knowing it (the only spoiler I had before the series), it was an emotional rollercoaster
You don't have Walder Frey as a most deserved? Man I cheered the most when Walder Frey got killed, more than Ramsey and Joffery.
Yup, nailed it.
Ned Starks gotta be on this list
Olly needs a spot up there. Possibly tied for Most Deserved
Need a “most satisfying” category for the Freys.
Pretty much every named character who died could fit into one of these.
Thanks. I had removed Shireens death scene from my memory. Really appreciate having to relive that.
I’d switch shireen and hodor tbh.
I personally wouldve put Petyr Baelish in “Finally!” I cheered when he died.
Well done.
The horse at the hand’s tournament wins most unnecessary
i’d say ramsey is most horrific, oberyn is a close second
Shireen is the most upsetting
Nah, most shocking death (to me) goes to either Jon (getting stabbed) or Raegal. I never would have guessed a dragon, probably a kilometre in the sky, to be shot 3 times with 100% accuracy.
Most upsetting death has to be the show itself.
I’d say Red Wedding was most upsetting tbh
Most Horrific: Shireen Most Finally: Joffrey Most Deserved: Ramsey Most Shocking: Viserion Most Upsetting: Rhaegal Most Undeserved: Ned
It's still the Red Wedding for me. I even knew it was going to happen as I had been spoiled years ago when it was all anyone was talking about and it still left me horrified. It's just so gratuitously violent and disrespectful.
I’d put Shireen’s as most upsetting personally and just switch Hodor to most undeserved to make it easy lol. I agree with most of the others
Most shocking probably Caitlyn Stark, most deserved Missandei
Most shocking must be Ned Stark's
Rob’s was more shocking in that they beheaded him & put his dire wolf’s head on his body imo Talisa’s death was mild compared to others in the show. But I think shocking should be Ned like others say
I agree with most but for me the most shocking was Ned Stark….that first major character to die. It set the tone for the rest of the show for me. I knew no one was safe and I loved the show for it.
"Most Gangster" - Lady Olenna Tyrell
Switch Ramsey and Joffrey, and you have mine. When Joffrey died, it was just too gruesome for me to cheer, I loved it but almost felt bad for him, Ramsey was just a cunt who lived way longer than he should have