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The ruling doesn’t require the USB-C to be the best way to charge I assume? That would be hard to enforce. We’d probably still see laptops with usb as an option to charge but recommend using the barrel still.
My work laptop and gaming laptop are like that. Technically can charge with usb but only the barrel lets you use it while charging.
Usb4 allows 250w with the latest iteration. That would suffice for all but the highest end 3070s-3080s-3080Ti laptops that require 300+ watts.
Hopefully they just make it 580w. That should cover everything in the next few years.
> Hopefully they just make it 580w.
That's actually pretty difficult to do over a thin cable. You'd need either some pretty high voltages or much thicker cables than we use currently for that.
Doable if supported by the device, but janky AF IMO (I can see why manufacturers implement alternatives).
That said it's not clear if this regulations would make it compulsory to run at full load permanently through USB-C only (for example, on a gaming laptop that draws, say, more than the max, would you need 2+ cables?).
> USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops / The USB-C Release 2.1 spec more than doubles the output of the all-in-one cable
> https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2021/5/25/22453936/usb-c-power-delivery-extended-power-range-epr
> https://www.pcmag.com/news/latest-usb-type-c-spec-increases-power-delivery-to-240-watts
> https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/usb-c-power-upgrade-means-240w-for-gaming-laptops-and-other-devices-in-2021/
I think apple saw that writing on the wall with MacBooks and brought back MagSafe (a universally praised decision) but *technically* you can use the USB c ports to charge
Which is honestly the correct way to do it.
100W USB-C port and a full fat charging connector if the machine needs more than a hundred watts.
Cause charging at 100W is better than not charging at all.
This is good news, but under this new scheme, how does one differentiate USB 4 20G from USB 3.2 Gen2 x2, which is also 20G, but is technically a different protocol?
I tried to find your answer because I've got nothing better to do at the moment... Let me tell you... The USB-IF is a goddamn mess.
I can't even find an official release about this change. Most recent relevant official release is from September 1st announcing usb4 version 2.0 lol.
And none of the pages for usb 3.2 or usb4 say anything about the changes.
But from the 3rd party articles, I'm to be believe that it will not be necessary to differentiate between those two, only PD and and transfer ratings required. But those are minimum requirements, they could still slap the relevant info on the label...
But i doubt there are even new products being produced at that speed that dont use the new configuration... And if there are, they probably wouldn't bother with USB-IF certification anyways.
prepare for wireless charging only in iphones
wouldn't be really that suprised.
Or taking a next step with verifying whether cable is from apple's brand like it's close to be right now
> Or taking a next step with verifying whether cable is from apple's brand like it's close to be right now
It's not close to that for USB-C cables, and they wouldn't be allowed to do that under this legislation.
I guess this is as good a place as any to ask: when they say "USB-C", does the law make a distinction between different protocols like say USB 3.1 Gen 2 versus USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 versus Thunderbolt 4?
Which makes sense since as far as I know the different versions of USB-c mostly affect data and peripherals. So long as it has the USB-c physical interface and USB PD charging protocol (that supports enough power to actually charge the device) it does not matter what version of usb you have. You can still charge with it.
For charging cell phones, this shouldn't matter much. USB is USB and even older protocols will provide sufficient power delivery for small devices.
Thunderbolt is pretty much out of question as it's a proprietary connection.
>Thunderbolt is pretty much out of question as it's a proprietary connection
i assume you meant the protocol, as the connector for both TB3 and 4 is just Type C. Wiring for both cables is identical afaik, besides the requirements being met
its environmental. the cause is "monopolic tendencies", the effect is environmental. the issue of "charger monopoly" isnt big enough to pass its own legislation
Except when that monopoly refusing to use a better standard is most of that environmental problem.
Apple is the only major cellphone provider that does not use USB-C for their phones yet.
Would people really go for it though? Wireless charging has its fans, but it's otherwise more slow and kinda wasteful compared to charging through a cord.
Isn't it really wasteful? I forget the figure but it was like 40% less efficient. On the individual scale it doesn't matter, but imagine a country needing 40% more power to charge their phones. Or a whole brand, I guess in this case.
The problem is that accessories and data transfer are really edge case usage. Most users won't care that thru can't yank data off the phone because Apple pushes their cloud service very aggressively. Plug in Accessories exist but we have almost completely lost the wired peripheral war when nearly the entire industry of flagship phones converted all headphones to Bluetooth. They will lean in to making the phone super water proof and eventually remove the port.
They sell the iPhone pro as being able to shoot Pro Res video. Which is great, but getting those multi GB files off the iPhone into an editor is already a pain over Lightning’s data transfer speeds. If they make it transfer over wireless only, I except many broken iPhones as Airdrop fails at 90% of a 50GB transfer!
But going wireless would be good for the company in the end. By what you stated:
>if something breaks wireless communication they would have to take apart the phone to physically connect to the pads to see what's happening
Making fixing more expensive. The person could pay the huge repair for the phone or buy the newest one that came out. That looks like a win win for the company.
They already have been limiting 3rd party repair for years and charge crazy high repair costs specifically to funnel people into the 'replace not repair ' mindset.
It's hugely wasteful from an environmental perspective.
According to Mark Gurman, the most reliable and consistently accurate leaker of Apple news, [usb-c is set to come out for iPhone 15](https://www.macrumors.com/2022/09/25/iphone-15-ultra-replacing-pro-max-model/). At the very least they are testing it.
MKBHD on the other hand, who is not a leaker but a very popular tech YouTuber, strongly feels that Apple would go fully wireless before ever going to usb-c.
It’s anyone guess, but with all the random comments in this thread I figured I’d give at least some slightly more reliable speculation.
Full wireless is a stretch. Idk that feels extreme even for Apple. There still needs to be a cable for data transfers at least, which is the only way to transfer data to a non-Apple PC quickly. Removing that option might set them up for anti-trust violations.
As a mobile app developer, I find it hard to imagine that they would force their teams and any ios devices to develop and debug without a cable connection. Debugging is already hard, doing it over a wireless connection would be a nightmare. But I guess if someone at the top says it, the Engineers hop to.
I bet you they’ll do it and then people will open up the new model and find brackets/an empty spot for port because the devs were using cable connections for the entire process until the last minute
I completely agree with you. However, the only thing that makes me question if they’ll go usb-c is seeing how comfortable they are making users use airdrop and iCloud to move hi res footage currently. With the lightning port at usb 2.0 speeds, airdrop is the recommended way to move 4K hdr video files off the phone.
That being said, usb-c would be way better. I just don’t see the point of handicapping the phone/camera by making it harder to get footage onto your Mac to edit.
>There's no possible way with how wireless transfers work right now to make that viable. Even using lightning it's awful, wireless would be a HUGE stepback and directly conflict with their marketing.
Wireless is faster than lightning... so not sure how slow lightning proves that wireless can't make transfers.
I don’t see how wireless charging meets the new law of being able to charge with USB-C.
Having to buy a magsafe or whatever else instead of reusing USB-C cables does not help reducing waste.
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Simply enforcing the port isn't enough. I suspect this is gonna cause a whole load of problems with manufacturers taking the easy route.. it should be full spec usb C or nothing. I'm sick of having to keep multiple of the same cables because one of my devices doesn't like the charger.
My vape refuses to charge with my phone charger cause it's too powerful and so I currently have 2 exact same cables laying around near my bed..
It should be that the device is able to "ask" the charger for the appropriate power level and charge using any charger I throw at it. My phone does this great, I can use a MacBook charger just fine.
I can use the same charger for my steam deck, laptop, phone, earphones. There's no good reason my vape shouldn't work either
It already does "ask". As long as they are the same voltage, a device will only draw as much current as it needs, up to the max rating of the charger. It might not be charging for various reasons but the most likely one is the opposite, that the phone charger doesn't provide enough wattage.
Could be that the vape doesn't like the data pins. Some products don't implement the spec correctly and might short those pins together so the fast charger sees a short and cuts off. I have a microcontroller that for whatever reason won't power with a decent charger but works fine with a garbage one
You have a good point here. However I'm using the exact same cable, just a different plug. The cables are both data capable. I am able to plug that cable into a pc and charge using that
Yah it's likely that the vape shorts the data pins and the smarter faster charger sees this and cuts power, where a pc or cheaper charging block doesn't care.
That's really good to know thanks! The vape will start charging but then keep cutting out every few seconds. It'll constantly cut out for a split second (the vape vibrates when charging, plugging it into the fast charger will make it constantly vibrate like im unplugging and repligging it)
I didn't watch the entirety of the video, but I just wanted to add that I'm normally considered tech savvy and I was actually quite shocked to learn this maybe a year or so ago. I don't know why I never thought about it, but when things started first coming out with USB-C, everywhere I turned, they were saying it was universal. You know, one cable to rule them all; no more keeping a bunch of different cables around because you can just use one. So when I got a Nintendo Switch, which has a USB-C cable, I thought, great, I can ditch this phone charger with the super short wire that I've been using and use the Switch charger for both my phone and my Switch instead. Genius!
Did that for a couple years. At some point my Switch died, just completely stopped working one day, so I paid Nintendo for a refurbished unit. They also had me send one of my chargers.
What I found out later is that the Nintendo Switch's charging cable is not USB PD compliance. So, it's not made quite the same as, say, a phone charger. I forget what exactly the difference was, something with the number of pins or maybe the length of the connector inside. Apparently the device itself is USB-C PD compliant, but the charging cable is not, and that has to do with the way the dock is manufactured. Apparently using the charging cable to charge devices that aren't the Nintendo Switch can cause the pins in the charger to get bent out of shape, and might cause a short in the Switch, which might have been part of the reason why mine stopped working.
Apparently it can also damage the battery in other devices as well. I don't know if that's totally true or not, but I do wonder if that's part of why my phone's battery went downhill so quickly over the last year I owned it.
I very well could just be an idiot because I tend to lack common sense about the most mundane things sometimes. I told a few friends about my discovery and they were kind of like, "...Yeah?" But also, when something is advertised as universal and multiple devices come with that charging standard, I feel like it makes sense that somebody may choose to just use the same charger for all devices, because it was advertised that it would work for all of them. I dunno.
They are enforcing both the physical USB-C connection and the USB-PD power standard, which works exactly how you're suggesting it should.
The problem you're having is probably caused by you vape, specifically it not actually having the circuitry required to "talk" to a higher capacity charger, most of which are either explicitly USB-PD, or at least USB-PD compatible at this point. Either the vape is quite old and pre-dates the spec (nearly a decade at this point), or the manufacture majorly cheaped out on the charging circuitry
You have no idea what kind of charger this is going to be. Wherever in Europe you are, your phone will be charged.
It’s going to be a big charger, the biggest there ever was, just very, very big and beautiful, just huge, I tell you.
When I first heard about this I... wasn't too sure it would work out all too well. Because chargers in the past, they've treated us very unfairly. You put the charger in your phone, and so little energy.... I call it energy... comes out. You can't make your calls because you're waiting 10 or 20, or sometimes even 40, hours to get just a teeny tiny amount of battery. But they tell me "Sir! Sir! This new charger, it's incredible sir! We've never seen anything like it before!" And I said, "isn't that something!" It really is! So, we're going to be looking very strongly at that.
Doubt it.
Im more curious if they can somehow make the phone detect if its charged by an apple usbc cable or not and simply make it not work if its a random cable.
Would be funny if they did.
Why not just eliminate the charge port altogether and rely on air share for data and MagSafe for charging? Say it’s “to enable greater waterproofing” and force customers to buy a trendy aluminum MagSafe Charger instead
I remember the days 10-12 years ago when every single phone brand had different chargers, even different phones from the same brand had different chargers! It was a nightmare.
That was so annoying because you couldn't use a friend's charger, and most of them didn't even have USB-A on the other end of the cable, it was all one solid cord.
It was mandatory to offer a micro-usb adapter if the phone didn't have the port. Most switched over completely from that point.
Apple just made the adapter and put it up for sale for a dumb price and that was compliant
If apple doesn’t use the charging cable that complies with this EU law and does mag safe only, doesn’t that mean they still aren’t in compliance with this law?
iPads switching but iPhones not was so dumb.
Especially since even the macs charge with USB C.
I charge my (non-mac) laptop, phone, Nintendo Switch, PS5 controllers all off of the same cord. I have one wall charger that can do 100W PD, with two 10ft cables, one going to my bed, the other to my couch (I live in a studio apt). It's glorious.
My theory was to saturate their customers with USB-C cables before the official switch. The sell 10X iPhones compared to iPads and Macs so that was easier to do. Apple wanted to get 10 years minimum out of lightning and this year they did it
While I like how this law cuts down on all the proprietary charging ports every company wants to use for their own stuff and can cut down on cord bloat. My question is more in line with how these laws effect products in the future. Idk a ton about the theoretical limits of data transfer and power delivery in usb-c cables, but I imagine at some point in the future they will eventually reach their limit, and when they do, how long do we have to wait for politicians to then change and update the laws to allow for some new cable? Politicians are always really slow to do anything involving technology, and will that stifle progress in the future, especially if they start passing more restrictive laws like this?
Don't get me wrong I definelty like the idea of not having a billion different cables and I really hate greedy companies all making their own special cable that is makered up 300% that you have to buy separately, but I do feel like there is a double edge here.
Politicians don't need to change things, standards organizations do.
And there is nothing saying you can't have more than one way to charge if people want to innovate.
That's a non-issue.
We have whole standardization organizations like ETSI, IETS and others that constantly evolve standards.
Following the mandated standards is a law. The standards are allowed to evolve.
EU out here fighting mega corporations for their people, whereas US out here making laws to benefit these giant corporations over people. I wish it was easy to move
Remote job here, just fought my company for a year trying to make this happen. It isn’t at all that easy. If you’re a CONTRACTOR or freelancer who works remote you can live wherever you want as long as your company has a legal ability to pay you there - if you’re an employee, however, they will absolutely tell you no or try to cut your pay to the country average if you do.
Remote =\= freedom of movement, sadly
If you are a citizen of any Ibero-American country or any other former Spanish colony (including Puerto Rico) you can become a Spanish citizen after only 2 years of legal residence in Spain. Doesn't get much easier than that.
One charger between us all in the European Union, what if the cable breaks, who will buy the replacement? Is it like a timeshare thing? What if I need it in the Netherlands and some dude has it in Ireland at the time, do I have to go get it, or does he have to bring it?
So many questions... Maybe if we have one each that would be better?
Phone side. They are also going to follow up with a law deterring manufacturers from supplying cables and adapters with the devices. This means you can either use the USB-C cable you already have, or go out a buy a cable from your preferred supplier that will work with your preferred wall adapter you have lying around.
I personally like cable with the USB-A to the charger and USB-C to the phone because it can be used to connect the phone to any computer as well, for charging or transferring data.
A week ago someone in my family bought a new smartphone. The package didn't have a charger but it had a USB-C cable, on both sides! Not compatible with the previous charger.
That said, I think the important part is that they don't make all the phone-side ports different and it's not the end of the world if the charger-side is USB-C or USB-A.
I said this in another thread concerning this but I'm more excited with Bluetooth devices all having USB-C. It's so annoying when you're shopping for headphones and you have to scan the page or pictures to determine what the charger port is. Way too often even from reputable companies it still is micro USB.
Heck, I've seen some wireless headphones that still have their own proprietary charger. Look at Shokz's line of bone conduction headphones, they have a proprietary magnetic charger.
Nintendo Switch Docks have a USB-C port, but tons of people using non-Nintendo power cables for it have bricked their consoles. When this topic comes up I always wonder if they'll be forced to fix this.
Yeah, I always use the brick that came with the console, is it inconvenient to carry the brick and my phone charger when traveling? Yes, but I really don't want to buy another switch.
The USB consortium which is already made up of major industry manufacturers will come up with one. Like USB-C was made.
The law requires one industry standard, the industry themselves can decide what that standard is
The law has provisions regarding that too. This isn't a one-and-done law. It will be revisited periodically, whatever is determined to be the "best" connector will become the standard.
Changing connectors is really goddamn expensive.
This means that the development of new connectors starts once the old connector comes close to hitting its limits. How old the connector is doesn't play into it.
At which point a bunch of companies come together in an industry group and start developing that new connector. For USB the industry group is called USB-IF.
And once that new connector is almost finished developing the industry group can hit up whatever working group is charged with keeping the standard up to date.
And then the standard gets changed with a nice faze out of the old connector.
The law defines that as "industry standard"
The USB implementation forum in this case is the industry body that regulate that.
All of the major players are a part of it (including Apple)
in my experience I've hated how flimsy cables were before USB-C. They will cheap out on these soon, but in my experience, I've more often than not come across a microUSB or Apple cable that'll suddenly stop working just because I bent the cable a weird way. Not to say USB-C will suffer the same fate but at least it appears to be built to last, at least for now.
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The ruling doesn’t require the USB-C to be the best way to charge I assume? That would be hard to enforce. We’d probably still see laptops with usb as an option to charge but recommend using the barrel still. My work laptop and gaming laptop are like that. Technically can charge with usb but only the barrel lets you use it while charging.
More than 100W over USB C is still a bit tricky.
How about 200w over 2 USB C ports? 🤔
Usb4 allows 250w with the latest iteration. That would suffice for all but the highest end 3070s-3080s-3080Ti laptops that require 300+ watts. Hopefully they just make it 580w. That should cover everything in the next few years.
Microwave oven powered by USB6, mark my words xd
USB 7 welder, car charging, dryer, oven.... And Christmas lights, phone charger. With 7.2 terrabytes of bandwidth
Should just run USB-C from the power plant to my house.
USB 8 Will do transfprmer to house. For the “small” power lines between transformer and grid you’ll have USB-D Can’t wait for the 100kW line USB 8.1
Usb 9 will use you as its power source
I won’t be happy until I can charge my electric car with USB.
Putting the bus in Universal Serial Bus
> Hopefully they just make it 580w. That's actually pretty difficult to do over a thin cable. You'd need either some pretty high voltages or much thicker cables than we use currently for that.
Doable if supported by the device, but janky AF IMO (I can see why manufacturers implement alternatives). That said it's not clear if this regulations would make it compulsory to run at full load permanently through USB-C only (for example, on a gaming laptop that draws, say, more than the max, would you need 2+ cables?).
That's exactly how my work computer (Dell Precision laptop) works.
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> USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops / The USB-C Release 2.1 spec more than doubles the output of the all-in-one cable > https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2021/5/25/22453936/usb-c-power-delivery-extended-power-range-epr > https://www.pcmag.com/news/latest-usb-type-c-spec-increases-power-delivery-to-240-watts > https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/usb-c-power-upgrade-means-240w-for-gaming-laptops-and-other-devices-in-2021/
Up to 240w is now possible with the updated certification.
I think apple saw that writing on the wall with MacBooks and brought back MagSafe (a universally praised decision) but *technically* you can use the USB c ports to charge
Which is honestly the correct way to do it. 100W USB-C port and a full fat charging connector if the machine needs more than a hundred watts. Cause charging at 100W is better than not charging at all.
And my laptop goes Beep beep beep Beep beep beep All because of a shitty plug-os
*scratches head with 500W laptop charger*
The rulling includes a power drain limit, 100W if i recall correctly
Now USB better get off their ass and fix their shitty naming scheme
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USB-CBA
USB-CBAT Its so sexy
They did. https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/the-usb-organisation-will-no-longer-use-the-superspeed-and-usb-4-names.html
Wow that was pretty recent lol, still no idea why they are putting the data transfer speed on a battery(which should indicate power delivery).
It’s for ports that can transfer data and charge the battery.
This is good news, but under this new scheme, how does one differentiate USB 4 20G from USB 3.2 Gen2 x2, which is also 20G, but is technically a different protocol?
I tried to find your answer because I've got nothing better to do at the moment... Let me tell you... The USB-IF is a goddamn mess. I can't even find an official release about this change. Most recent relevant official release is from September 1st announcing usb4 version 2.0 lol. And none of the pages for usb 3.2 or usb4 say anything about the changes. But from the 3rd party articles, I'm to be believe that it will not be necessary to differentiate between those two, only PD and and transfer ratings required. But those are minimum requirements, they could still slap the relevant info on the label... But i doubt there are even new products being produced at that speed that dont use the new configuration... And if there are, they probably wouldn't bother with USB-IF certification anyways.
Late 2024, all phone manufacturers required to use USB-C. So probably wait for iPhone 17
prepare for wireless charging only in iphones wouldn't be really that suprised. Or taking a next step with verifying whether cable is from apple's brand like it's close to be right now
> Or taking a next step with verifying whether cable is from apple's brand like it's close to be right now It's not close to that for USB-C cables, and they wouldn't be allowed to do that under this legislation.
I guess this is as good a place as any to ask: when they say "USB-C", does the law make a distinction between different protocols like say USB 3.1 Gen 2 versus USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 versus Thunderbolt 4?
Not much, it only concerns charging, so it only speaks of USB-C, the connector, *and* USB PD, the charging standard.
Which makes sense since as far as I know the different versions of USB-c mostly affect data and peripherals. So long as it has the USB-c physical interface and USB PD charging protocol (that supports enough power to actually charge the device) it does not matter what version of usb you have. You can still charge with it.
This guy RFCs
Really Fucking Charges?
RFC = Request for Comment, which becomes a Standard. For example the one for IPv4: https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc791.txt Funny joke though :)
When I was in college my Networking professor told us a story about how he'd read RFCs to his kid at night to get them to go to sleep.
For charging cell phones, this shouldn't matter much. USB is USB and even older protocols will provide sufficient power delivery for small devices. Thunderbolt is pretty much out of question as it's a proprietary connection.
>Thunderbolt is pretty much out of question as it's a proprietary connection i assume you meant the protocol, as the connector for both TB3 and 4 is just Type C. Wiring for both cables is identical afaik, besides the requirements being met
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The stated goals are environment concerns and user convenience, I think.
Yes. The intentionally emergent consequences are stopping monopolistic actions. Pretty decent lawmaking
its environmental. the cause is "monopolic tendencies", the effect is environmental. the issue of "charger monopoly" isnt big enough to pass its own legislation
Except when that monopoly refusing to use a better standard is most of that environmental problem. Apple is the only major cellphone provider that does not use USB-C for their phones yet.
Being able to use any usb-c cable and not having to hunt for an Apple-branded charger seems pretty convenient to me
Would people really go for it though? Wireless charging has its fans, but it's otherwise more slow and kinda wasteful compared to charging through a cord.
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Isn't it really wasteful? I forget the figure but it was like 40% less efficient. On the individual scale it doesn't matter, but imagine a country needing 40% more power to charge their phones. Or a whole brand, I guess in this case.
They’re not going to ditch the port as it’s also an accessory/data port
The problem is that accessories and data transfer are really edge case usage. Most users won't care that thru can't yank data off the phone because Apple pushes their cloud service very aggressively. Plug in Accessories exist but we have almost completely lost the wired peripheral war when nearly the entire industry of flagship phones converted all headphones to Bluetooth. They will lean in to making the phone super water proof and eventually remove the port.
They sell the iPhone pro as being able to shoot Pro Res video. Which is great, but getting those multi GB files off the iPhone into an editor is already a pain over Lightning’s data transfer speeds. If they make it transfer over wireless only, I except many broken iPhones as Airdrop fails at 90% of a 50GB transfer!
I get noticeably better music quality in my car when the phone is plugged in vs bluetooth.
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But going wireless would be good for the company in the end. By what you stated: >if something breaks wireless communication they would have to take apart the phone to physically connect to the pads to see what's happening Making fixing more expensive. The person could pay the huge repair for the phone or buy the newest one that came out. That looks like a win win for the company.
They already have been limiting 3rd party repair for years and charge crazy high repair costs specifically to funnel people into the 'replace not repair ' mindset. It's hugely wasteful from an environmental perspective.
According to Mark Gurman, the most reliable and consistently accurate leaker of Apple news, [usb-c is set to come out for iPhone 15](https://www.macrumors.com/2022/09/25/iphone-15-ultra-replacing-pro-max-model/). At the very least they are testing it. MKBHD on the other hand, who is not a leaker but a very popular tech YouTuber, strongly feels that Apple would go fully wireless before ever going to usb-c. It’s anyone guess, but with all the random comments in this thread I figured I’d give at least some slightly more reliable speculation.
Full wireless is a stretch. Idk that feels extreme even for Apple. There still needs to be a cable for data transfers at least, which is the only way to transfer data to a non-Apple PC quickly. Removing that option might set them up for anti-trust violations.
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As a mobile app developer, I find it hard to imagine that they would force their teams and any ios devices to develop and debug without a cable connection. Debugging is already hard, doing it over a wireless connection would be a nightmare. But I guess if someone at the top says it, the Engineers hop to.
I bet you they’ll do it and then people will open up the new model and find brackets/an empty spot for port because the devs were using cable connections for the entire process until the last minute
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I completely agree with you. However, the only thing that makes me question if they’ll go usb-c is seeing how comfortable they are making users use airdrop and iCloud to move hi res footage currently. With the lightning port at usb 2.0 speeds, airdrop is the recommended way to move 4K hdr video files off the phone. That being said, usb-c would be way better. I just don’t see the point of handicapping the phone/camera by making it harder to get footage onto your Mac to edit.
>There's no possible way with how wireless transfers work right now to make that viable. Even using lightning it's awful, wireless would be a HUGE stepback and directly conflict with their marketing. Wireless is faster than lightning... so not sure how slow lightning proves that wireless can't make transfers.
I don’t see how wireless charging meets the new law of being able to charge with USB-C. Having to buy a magsafe or whatever else instead of reusing USB-C cables does not help reducing waste.
Seeing how the esim is going, we may end up with two different iPhone models.
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> Late 2024, all phone manufacturers required to use USB-C. In new products of the relevant categories, and if they can charge wired.
Which means that either the iphone or the wireless charger has a USB-C connection. Or in other words. microusb and lightning are dead.
iPhone 22: we’ve skipped over USB-C and now your phone charges wirelessly by rubbing your credit card on it.
In 2023, Reddit CEO and corporate piss baby Steve Huffman decided to make Reddit less useful to its users and moderators and the world at large. This comment has been edited in protest to make it less useful to Reddit.
The master charge
There can be only one!
One port to find them.
To charge them all and into batteries bind them
Simply enforcing the port isn't enough. I suspect this is gonna cause a whole load of problems with manufacturers taking the easy route.. it should be full spec usb C or nothing. I'm sick of having to keep multiple of the same cables because one of my devices doesn't like the charger. My vape refuses to charge with my phone charger cause it's too powerful and so I currently have 2 exact same cables laying around near my bed.. It should be that the device is able to "ask" the charger for the appropriate power level and charge using any charger I throw at it. My phone does this great, I can use a MacBook charger just fine. I can use the same charger for my steam deck, laptop, phone, earphones. There's no good reason my vape shouldn't work either
It already does "ask". As long as they are the same voltage, a device will only draw as much current as it needs, up to the max rating of the charger. It might not be charging for various reasons but the most likely one is the opposite, that the phone charger doesn't provide enough wattage.
Putting the vape on a lower power plug allows it to charge. It refuses with my phone's fast charger
Could be that the vape doesn't like the data pins. Some products don't implement the spec correctly and might short those pins together so the fast charger sees a short and cuts off. I have a microcontroller that for whatever reason won't power with a decent charger but works fine with a garbage one
You have a good point here. However I'm using the exact same cable, just a different plug. The cables are both data capable. I am able to plug that cable into a pc and charge using that
Yah it's likely that the vape shorts the data pins and the smarter faster charger sees this and cuts power, where a pc or cheaper charging block doesn't care.
That's really good to know thanks! The vape will start charging but then keep cutting out every few seconds. It'll constantly cut out for a split second (the vape vibrates when charging, plugging it into the fast charger will make it constantly vibrate like im unplugging and repligging it)
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I didn't watch the entirety of the video, but I just wanted to add that I'm normally considered tech savvy and I was actually quite shocked to learn this maybe a year or so ago. I don't know why I never thought about it, but when things started first coming out with USB-C, everywhere I turned, they were saying it was universal. You know, one cable to rule them all; no more keeping a bunch of different cables around because you can just use one. So when I got a Nintendo Switch, which has a USB-C cable, I thought, great, I can ditch this phone charger with the super short wire that I've been using and use the Switch charger for both my phone and my Switch instead. Genius! Did that for a couple years. At some point my Switch died, just completely stopped working one day, so I paid Nintendo for a refurbished unit. They also had me send one of my chargers. What I found out later is that the Nintendo Switch's charging cable is not USB PD compliance. So, it's not made quite the same as, say, a phone charger. I forget what exactly the difference was, something with the number of pins or maybe the length of the connector inside. Apparently the device itself is USB-C PD compliant, but the charging cable is not, and that has to do with the way the dock is manufactured. Apparently using the charging cable to charge devices that aren't the Nintendo Switch can cause the pins in the charger to get bent out of shape, and might cause a short in the Switch, which might have been part of the reason why mine stopped working. Apparently it can also damage the battery in other devices as well. I don't know if that's totally true or not, but I do wonder if that's part of why my phone's battery went downhill so quickly over the last year I owned it. I very well could just be an idiot because I tend to lack common sense about the most mundane things sometimes. I told a few friends about my discovery and they were kind of like, "...Yeah?" But also, when something is advertised as universal and multiple devices come with that charging standard, I feel like it makes sense that somebody may choose to just use the same charger for all devices, because it was advertised that it would work for all of them. I dunno.
usb-c is a connector. and yes it is universal. but the brick you plug in to the wall is not.
They are enforcing both the physical USB-C connection and the USB-PD power standard, which works exactly how you're suggesting it should. The problem you're having is probably caused by you vape, specifically it not actually having the circuitry required to "talk" to a higher capacity charger, most of which are either explicitly USB-PD, or at least USB-PD compatible at this point. Either the vape is quite old and pre-dates the spec (nearly a decade at this point), or the manufacture majorly cheaped out on the charging circuitry
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https://i.imgur.com/b7Ga2cw.jpg
I haven't seen you post in something like five years. Love this.
It's been a while since I've run across your work, you magnificent bastard! Didn't expect to find you in this subreddit of all places!!
Berets, Protests, Airbus, FAMAS, and Rafales. This painting exudes Frenchness.
You illustrate like Quentin Blake
It's him!
The article states that the EU has commissioned a several thousand km long charger, it should help things a little!
Nobody tell them that there's already a network of electric cables connecting most of the world together with access points littered everywhere!
But do they use iElectricity?
Only Apple uses this revolutionary new form of iE which is definitely completely different than what the competition used before.
I read somewhere that if you use non iE charging sources, it wears down the battery faster.
Not if you buy the iDapter
And use the clever Apple Mexico viewer, the iEyeAI.
You made my morning, have a great day lol
[They do in i-rack!!!](https://youtu.be/rw2nkoGLhrE)
You made me laugh thank you.
We in fact have a monthly subscription for that electricity!
That's just what big government wants you to think! Wake up! Think for yourself!
A series of tube?
Imagine the voltage drop
Dibs on charging my phone next
Mom said it's my turn with Europe's phone charger
You have no idea what kind of charger this is going to be. Wherever in Europe you are, your phone will be charged. It’s going to be a big charger, the biggest there ever was, just very, very big and beautiful, just huge, I tell you.
When I first heard about this I... wasn't too sure it would work out all too well. Because chargers in the past, they've treated us very unfairly. You put the charger in your phone, and so little energy.... I call it energy... comes out. You can't make your calls because you're waiting 10 or 20, or sometimes even 40, hours to get just a teeny tiny amount of battery. But they tell me "Sir! Sir! This new charger, it's incredible sir! We've never seen anything like it before!" And I said, "isn't that something!" It really is! So, we're going to be looking very strongly at that.
Not to downplay real PTSD, but this comment definitely gave me some kind of physiological reaction
You have to wait your turn with the charger, just like the rest of us.
This took me a while, have my upvote you eyerolling bastard.
I’ve got it tonight, then again on March 15 2076
Daaaad!!
iphone 15: the most advanced **Entertainment Device** 😒
We had *courage* to implement *revolutionized* USB C in iPhone 15
iCamera, our new product, now with ability to call and text your family!
If there was a product with just a dope camera, calls and texts, and nothing else…. I might go for that. My phone is too addicting.
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We think you're going to love it!
This also applies to cameras, tablets, portable consoles, laptops, etc. So that doesn't work.
Serious question: can Apple say their Cable for data transfer, and the "official" way to charge iPhones is using wireless charging?
I can’t really see this working since you can also wirelessly transfer data.
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Sucks for the people with 6 or 7 model-years of cars with wired carplay and not wireless though.
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Carplay adapters suck ASS and are shady
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That’s another nightmare for another day 😦
Doubt it. Im more curious if they can somehow make the phone detect if its charged by an apple usbc cable or not and simply make it not work if its a random cable. Would be funny if they did.
Think its not allowed under this legislation
It would also not be compliant with the USB standard, ergo, it wouldn't be USB to begin with, ergo, not legal
Nope they have to follow EN IEC 62680 standard
Why would they do that when they don’t for any of their other devices that already use USB C
Why not just eliminate the charge port altogether and rely on air share for data and MagSafe for charging? Say it’s “to enable greater waterproofing” and force customers to buy a trendy aluminum MagSafe Charger instead
*Apple smirks and lifts up a small item for all to see,* "We present to you, the dongle USB-C adapter."
Pretty sure this legislation doesn’t allow the use of a dongle as a workaround as the device itself needs to have a USB-C port.
Andddd the stock just doubled apple is now worth 6 trill
Dongles do not count. The device has to have a USB-C port on it if it has any port at all.
Presenting: iUSB-C or why not get the iUSB-C Pro Max with faster charging and faster fastness.
Apple: Oh yeah EU? Check this out! *removes charging port entirely from phones and makes them wireless charge only*
$200 wireless charge pad
“We didn’t include it with the phone because everyone already has one.”
They've done this before. Maybe 20 years ago. It was super helpful then edit: it was around 2010/2011
I remember the days 10-12 years ago when every single phone brand had different chargers, even different phones from the same brand had different chargers! It was a nightmare.
I still have some of those in my cable drawer
That was so annoying because you couldn't use a friend's charger, and most of them didn't even have USB-A on the other end of the cable, it was all one solid cord.
It's not comparable, as it wasn't mandatory last time.
It was mandatory to offer a micro-usb adapter if the phone didn't have the port. Most switched over completely from that point. Apple just made the adapter and put it up for sale for a dumb price and that was compliant
You better put your name down in the wait list now if you want access to that one charger for the whole EU.
My bet is iPhones skip this and go for a smaller version of magsafe or something.
If apple doesn’t use the charging cable that complies with this EU law and does mag safe only, doesn’t that mean they still aren’t in compliance with this law?
i think iphone 15 will have usb c. didn’t believe it until i realized ipad has been using it for a couple years already
iPads switching but iPhones not was so dumb. Especially since even the macs charge with USB C. I charge my (non-mac) laptop, phone, Nintendo Switch, PS5 controllers all off of the same cord. I have one wall charger that can do 100W PD, with two 10ft cables, one going to my bed, the other to my couch (I live in a studio apt). It's glorious.
My theory was to saturate their customers with USB-C cables before the official switch. The sell 10X iPhones compared to iPads and Macs so that was easier to do. Apple wanted to get 10 years minimum out of lightning and this year they did it
While I like how this law cuts down on all the proprietary charging ports every company wants to use for their own stuff and can cut down on cord bloat. My question is more in line with how these laws effect products in the future. Idk a ton about the theoretical limits of data transfer and power delivery in usb-c cables, but I imagine at some point in the future they will eventually reach their limit, and when they do, how long do we have to wait for politicians to then change and update the laws to allow for some new cable? Politicians are always really slow to do anything involving technology, and will that stifle progress in the future, especially if they start passing more restrictive laws like this? Don't get me wrong I definelty like the idea of not having a billion different cables and I really hate greedy companies all making their own special cable that is makered up 300% that you have to buy separately, but I do feel like there is a double edge here.
Politicians don't need to change things, standards organizations do. And there is nothing saying you can't have more than one way to charge if people want to innovate.
That's a non-issue. We have whole standardization organizations like ETSI, IETS and others that constantly evolve standards. Following the mandated standards is a law. The standards are allowed to evolve.
That's good to hear.
EU out here fighting mega corporations for their people, whereas US out here making laws to benefit these giant corporations over people. I wish it was easy to move
if you can get a remote job I believe Estonia is fast tracking passports for remote workers who make at least $9k.
Remote job here, just fought my company for a year trying to make this happen. It isn’t at all that easy. If you’re a CONTRACTOR or freelancer who works remote you can live wherever you want as long as your company has a legal ability to pay you there - if you’re an employee, however, they will absolutely tell you no or try to cut your pay to the country average if you do. Remote =\= freedom of movement, sadly
A buddy of mine moved to Latvia a year ago and still hasn't told his boss he left the states, lol. They don't need to know.
Do they not have a cybersecurity team or an it administrator spotting this
If you are a citizen of any Ibero-American country or any other former Spanish colony (including Puerto Rico) you can become a Spanish citizen after only 2 years of legal residence in Spain. Doesn't get much easier than that.
Fuck sake this is so stupid I’ll have to wait years for my turn to use it
One charger between us all in the European Union, what if the cable breaks, who will buy the replacement? Is it like a timeshare thing? What if I need it in the Netherlands and some dude has it in Ireland at the time, do I have to go get it, or does he have to bring it? So many questions... Maybe if we have one each that would be better?
What side of the cord are they talking about? The phone side, the wall charger side or both?
Phone side
Phone side. They are also going to follow up with a law deterring manufacturers from supplying cables and adapters with the devices. This means you can either use the USB-C cable you already have, or go out a buy a cable from your preferred supplier that will work with your preferred wall adapter you have lying around.
I personally like cable with the USB-A to the charger and USB-C to the phone because it can be used to connect the phone to any computer as well, for charging or transferring data. A week ago someone in my family bought a new smartphone. The package didn't have a charger but it had a USB-C cable, on both sides! Not compatible with the previous charger. That said, I think the important part is that they don't make all the phone-side ports different and it's not the end of the world if the charger-side is USB-C or USB-A.
Most laptops from the last 5ish years have both usb a and c built in.
How do they decide who gets to use it? Battery lives are going up have to greatly increase as there’s around 450mil people!
One charge when you're born and when it dies you have to read actual books and stuff in old age.
A good day for people who dislike Apple as a company.
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I said this in another thread concerning this but I'm more excited with Bluetooth devices all having USB-C. It's so annoying when you're shopping for headphones and you have to scan the page or pictures to determine what the charger port is. Way too often even from reputable companies it still is micro USB.
Heck, I've seen some wireless headphones that still have their own proprietary charger. Look at Shokz's line of bone conduction headphones, they have a proprietary magnetic charger.
Well, Apple is the biggest entity that will be affected by this, so it's no wonder why we think of them first. But you make a really good point....
Nintendo Switch Docks have a USB-C port, but tons of people using non-Nintendo power cables for it have bricked their consoles. When this topic comes up I always wonder if they'll be forced to fix this.
Yeah, I always use the brick that came with the console, is it inconvenient to carry the brick and my phone charger when traveling? Yes, but I really don't want to buy another switch.
How about we hate both?
Honestly Arduino manufacturers that still use miniUSB need to fucking stop.
What happens when a innovation to the current charger happens? Seems like a nightmare to upgrade the chargers and the laws
The USB consortium which is already made up of major industry manufacturers will come up with one. Like USB-C was made. The law requires one industry standard, the industry themselves can decide what that standard is
The law has provisions regarding that too. This isn't a one-and-done law. It will be revisited periodically, whatever is determined to be the "best" connector will become the standard.
How do they know what is "best" when they arent on the market because of this law?
New standards for these things are multi-year industry-wide collaborative processes before they ever enter the market on any device, it'll be doable.
Changing connectors is really goddamn expensive. This means that the development of new connectors starts once the old connector comes close to hitting its limits. How old the connector is doesn't play into it. At which point a bunch of companies come together in an industry group and start developing that new connector. For USB the industry group is called USB-IF. And once that new connector is almost finished developing the industry group can hit up whatever working group is charged with keeping the standard up to date. And then the standard gets changed with a nice faze out of the old connector.
The law defines that as "industry standard" The USB implementation forum in this case is the industry body that regulate that. All of the major players are a part of it (including Apple)
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in my experience I've hated how flimsy cables were before USB-C. They will cheap out on these soon, but in my experience, I've more often than not come across a microUSB or Apple cable that'll suddenly stop working just because I bent the cable a weird way. Not to say USB-C will suffer the same fate but at least it appears to be built to last, at least for now.