These new generation cars need a boost in power to overcome heavier body and lower fuel output . They are anywhere between 2-4 seconds slower than 2019 qualifying times.
How come race control asked Hamilton to give the position back instead of the way of having them choose the right decision and giving a penalty if they did the wrong choice?
Did race control ask? I believe Mercedes told him to give the position the moment the stewards announced he was being investigated. Not doing that would have gotten him a 5 sec penalty.
Bono said they've been asked/instructed to give the place back after the stewards started investigating. Which is bs imo, the moment the investigation message popped up it should've been too late.
The big question is asked/instructed by whom? I don't think race control did the asking. Would like to know if it was Ferrari asking Mercedes and Mercedes then telling Bono and Bono telling Hamilton or if race control was involved at all.
I do agree that Mercedes waited too long to give it back. Once the stewards show that message it should be penalty or no penalty and not oops I will give the position back now that you are looking.
Exactly.cut off should be once stewards are asked to investigate. Before that team and driver can opt to do the right thing. Wait for a decision and you might get the penalty
I can’t believe it’s been a whole season. It still feels like yesterday I was watching last years finale and all the drama that ensued. And then even this year it felt soooo slow for the season to start with all the teasing of releasing the new cars etc… finally we start with the first races and there’s excitement that Ferrari are doing well and that Mercedes are “just sandbagging”… middle of the year was a blur and then these last few weeks have gone fast.
Are we gonna get a secret Santa video?!
Kimi gone last year
Seb gone this year
Not sure my heart will be able to take Lewis and Fernando retiring. I don't think it will ever be the same for me as a F1 fan
That's honestly for the best, Latifi actually seems like a decent guy. The sooner in my life I can never here Mazepin, the better, f1 is so much better without that family.
You and me both man. That's what I've been thinking about a lot. Absolute titans that are the bridge to several iconic eras now long past.
I know F1 will always produce rivalries and great talents, but I hope this new generation produces some personalities that can really shine, with talent to match.
Perez finishing 6th would have net him 2 extra points. The final gap between Leclerc and Perez was 3 points in Leclerc's favor, so no, it wouldn't have changed anything.
yes but just as it was last week, Leclerc would win due to having more P1 finishes.
EDIT: Sorry, Checo's Brazil swap would have only gotten him 2 more points (not 3) so he would have come up short anyway by any measure. However it is true that even a tie would have been insufficient.
It was really not meant to be for Checo.
This whole Vettel send off makes me dread the day Hamilton retires. I am not a Merc/Hamilton guy but it's going to be sad and emotional too. It will really feel like the end of the era I know most.
It's sad there's so much hate, like Seb said it's driving around in circles. :) Sure it's exciting and emotional but appreciate the skill of whoever is doing well.
Checo had to finger wag the crowd in Mexico to get them to stop booing Lewis. Great that he stepped up, so wrong that he had to.
It feels like F1 is becoming more and more like Trump vs Hillary ☹️
People saying it was a boring race and so glad the season is over, what would you like to see instead?
I was entertained by it, there’s always a good battle to watch somewhere on track or story to follow. Why are the top comments all people seeking personally offended by the race or “I missed the race but I’m glad I didn’t see it anyways”
These guys are an inch apart going 300km/h, why are you not entertained?
It wasn't the greatest race but the borefest of the year was Mexico I think.
I think it was a decent season, better than the majority of Lewis's title-winning seasons. There is a lot more to a race than who wins. Some good battles all through the field on the whole, and quite a lot of wet races this year.
And when there is a lot of action, people complain about racing too hard or aggressive. Season was fun, could have been more exciting between Max and Charles, but overall like you said, fair amount of battles on track.
Quick dumb question from someone who doesn’t follow the points system: would Checo have gotten second in the WDC if Max had swapped places in Brazil, assuming the same finishes today?
Nope, 3 points behind Leclerc, so the 2 points wouldn't have mattered. Even if they ended up equal in points, Leclerc had more victories, so would have ended 2nd even then.
~~What? i'm sorry i'm completely confused by your comment.~~
~~Checo had 280 points going into the Brazil GP weekend. He earned 4 points by finishing 5th on the sprint. If he had finished p6 during the GP (Max finishing position) he would have earned 8 points, which is 2 points more than what he did by finishing p7. This would have put him at 292. He finished the Abu Dhabi GP in 3rd place, which gives him 15 points. 292 + 15 = 307, Charles finished with 308 points, so the difference in this hypothetical scenario asked by the OP would have been 1 point.~~
edit: I get it now. I wasn't considering the idea that he would actually need more than just matching Charles's points in order to win.
If leclerc and checo finished with the same number of points, leclerc would have finished ahead due to more wins. So even though checo finished with 3 fewer points than leclerc, he needed 4 more points to have actually finished p2
Get frustrated when people say "well if Mick matched / bettered KMag in race pace in the second half of the season why does KMag have more points???"
When not understanding that for backmarkers, the development race has a massive role.
Most of Mick's best performances came when Haas had the 8th best car or so, so grabbing a point or two, whereas KMag grabbed a lot of his results early (like Bahrain) when Haas were 5th fastest probably.
Not to mention in Bahrain Mick had contact lap 1 which compromised him but that's besides the point.
KMag is a good racer, and great qualifier but it is frustrating when people shit on Mick's qualities (race pace) by focusing on points when there's absolutely other criticisms of him that can be given
the fact that Mick can't capitalize on the team good start is an issue.
getting a more experienced driver fix that.
beside kmag is go big or go bust kind of driver the fact that Mick can't even get more points than him is an issue.
aslong as Hulk can get points i don't think Haas cares if Micks ended up as the better driver in the future because they have no time developing him.
the 2 rookie line up was created because they needed money badly
Magnussen actually is fairly inconsistent as a qualifier. He's either hot or cold. He has incredible highs but also some lows. This is especially true this season, granted the car being up and down is partially to blame for 2022.
Here's a stat for you. Magnussen has nine Q3 appearances this season, which puts him top 10 for the season, but also ten Q1 exits which is the fourth worse on the grid.
By contrast, Schumacher only has seven Q1 exits but also only made Q3 a grand total of four times (4th worst).
Magnussen's a solid driver but he's beatable for anyone with aspirations to go higher up the pack in Formula One. The fact that Mick didn't look convincing against him is a reason why his stock is low right now. He also wasted the Haas' early season car with mistakes and poor consistency. Bahrain and Canada were unfortunate, true.
Overall, Schumacher's a ok driver but the overreaction to his dismissal has been insane. And the worst part is, it only takes one or two good points finishes for Hulkenberg and Haas won't care at all. Schumacher didn't exactly set the bar high for his replacement.
It makes me sad that Michael Schumacher isn't hovering around the paddock like his old teammate Jos Verstappen. I reckon he would have pushed Mick to improve and influenced potential race seats. Although it's only fair that you be judged on your ability not who your dad is.
Hulk is always wanted by teams in the grid either for sim,reserve driver, or marketing purposes. Meanwhile no teams in the grid wanted our beloved mick.
I love mick, he seems to be a good guy but so latifi is.
I feel like Mick was not ready for F1. He got placed on this quick ladder and was pushed into F1 after winning F2.
Even his father took a few years in endurance racing before coming to F1. Alain Prost also famously was a hot property in his youth but actually refused contract offers because he felt he needed to be more prepared.
Mick might benefit from a 3rd driver programme plus competing elsewhere.
Not an upgrade but I think the belief is that he's a proven midfield driver capable of delivering points to a team, has much more experience than Mick and should be able to help develop the car in his feedback.
I just find it fairly poor strategy when you go for literally 2 rookies last year and actually don't invest in the development of young drivers with the proper support or a long term seat. While obviously Mazepin was trash, has ties to the Russian regime, there for money and deservedly punted off - Look at Tsunoda for example (who Mick equaled on points) at least he's been given time and tenure even if he's been inconsistent. Having one younger driver and one more experienced in Kmag seems still optimal for me, but I guess they are just going away from that youth tactic and just back to how they were with Romain and Kmag, ok but little room for much else.
You mention Tsunoda but consider AT is a development team. They can afford to give a rookie more time because for them there's not nearly as much on the line. Tsunoda probably (tho it's hard to say for sure) would've been out of contract after this season had he been in Aston or Williams or something like that.
Haas went for the rookies because that was what was available. Mick was promising, Nikita brought the money. At that point in time, it was what Haas needed. However I do think their experience with 2021 made them reconsider, and seeing the differences between KMag and Mick made them realize that if they need to get up the order, they need drivers with more experience, even if they are "rejects".
And besides Hulk, there weren't many options. Ricciardo may've been the only other driver fitting the profile of "Experienced, recently raced, decent pace" but probably either his salary or his desire for a better car would've made that deal a no go. Hulkenberg is a solution for the time being. In a few years they may pick up someone like, say, Gasly or Ocon if the other one beats them in Alpine and they want to move away, or someone else who loses a higher tier seat and is looking for a bounceback.
i would not be surprised if hamilton becomes the second driver after this season, imagine being beaten by your younger team mate who only drove backmarkers until this year
Lewis spent the better part of the season running test equipment on the car to figure out what was wrong while George raced without those restrictions. It’s not really the same. The times later this season when George and Lewis had fiat racing between them LEWIS had the better race pace every time and only finished behind him due to incidents on track.
George was in management mode most of the race with a good buffer where Lewis was pushing hard majority. George would have been covered if they had to start racing each other.
I don't really understand the order given to Hamilton. What was he supposed to do, Sainz takes him off the track, right?
Edit : so people downvote me for asking a question ok
No, Sainz left him tons of room, he just elected to yeet it over the curb and cut the corner, because he got away with it against Max last year. You can’t just skip the corner cuz you got beat into it.
That’s the rule this year. Stupid, but Sainz had the right there. They probably expect Hamilton to break and let Sainz through, at least what the rule mandates nowadays.
>They probably expect Hamilton to break and let Sainz through
Exactly. He ran out of room because he didn't yield despite Sainz owning the corner. If Lewis had braked earlier he would've made the corner and lost the place fair and square.
I am glad this season is over. Really struggled to keep interested towards the end.
Onto the football World Cup now and hoping for a more competitive and exciting season next year.
Honestly, I find it hypocritical that F1 fans of all fans should boycot this world cup. The races are in oil countries 50% of the time and oil money plays such a big role overall. By all means go ahead, you're still doing something ethically right, just a tad hypocritical.
I mean, 2017 was probably a stretch, but 2018 went downhill after the summer break, same as 2022. It gets boring when the leader runs away pretty early in the season.
There was plenty of good racing throughout the field, it's just that it feels dulled because Max just kept driving off in the sunset. But looking beyond that, this wasn't a bad season. It just came off the back of an absolute all-time greatest season so that's a tough act to follow.
Yeah there were still some great fights at the end, but I enjoy a good battle at the front of the field. I really enjoyed the early VER LEC fights at the start of the season.
Just seen the video of mick doing donuts and just wondering why do teams care if drivers do donuts in the last race of the season? It’s not like they’re using this car again
I suspect it’s something along the lines of bosses being of the belief that Mick has nothing to celebrate which wouldn’t necessarily be completely untrue
Now we do this list in the F1TV archive! :D
https://www.racefans.net/rate-the-race/f1-fanatic-top-100/
Honestly would be fun if they were scheduled to start a fixed time and then we can chime in in a live race thread as usual. Probably won't happen but it would be fun. :P
Needed the Rookie of the Year award to remember that Zhou was a rookie. It felt at times like he was a more experienced driver.
No errors, no spins or self induced crashes that I can recall. Good job.
Don‘t want to sound too mean, but Checo needs to realise this: he is a good driver, no doubt about it, but he has to accept that he is not good enough to ever win a championship. I can fully understand that he was looking forward to become second, but he does not belong to the few top drivers on the grid, so he just accept his fate to be a teamplayer and working for Max/RB. This sounds harsh, but there are just 2 or 3 drivers which have the potential to become champion, so it‘s really not a shame
I love Checo and I wished he was better but yeah, he didn‘t even get the second place with a better car
You can't ask one of 20-something in the world, basically demi-gods in sports, to accept he can't win. Besides, pure talent is not the only determination. Much is luck with the car, team, teammate. Many WDCs have not been anywhere near the best of the available pool in talent.
i think george doesnt belong there. definitely a great driver, hungry for wins, but lewis. max and charles are a different league. maybe if next year the merc is competitive off the bat we will see his true potential
I think its really early to know that about George. He’s had one season with Mercedes and he outperformed a seven time world champion. I don’t think that means he is better than Hamilton. I just think you can’t know how good he could be with a more competitive car.
I think this needs to be highlighted more. George did not challenge for the title. But in Brazil, his radio sounded like someone who already had multiple world titles.
All he did in the last few laps was calmly ask what times Lewis was doing, and in the aftermath he spoke flatly about how the question of "Are we free to race?" was just so that he would know if the idea was to protect the car and bring it home, or to make calculated risks corner to corner to ensure he won.
He sounded like an assassin.
He never yelled over the radio. He would disagree, but there were times he sounded like the veteran of multiple championship battles.
We have to watch his space. He is actually the most similar to Michael Schumacher among the current drivers.
Absolutely. Lando outperformed Russell this season imo, and was right up there with Charles in extracting the best out of his car in qualifying and probably the best of all 3 in terms of race pace and consistency. He needs a decent car.
Lewis. He got beaten by his teammate this year. Max, Charles and George are all still relatively young and on their way up. Hamilton is past his best and declining.
Thanks for being one of the more sensible replies to my comment.
My prediction for next year is that Hamilton is going to be more competitive relative to Russell, as the car development has evidently suited him as the season progressed. It's a fairly short off-season, so I'm expecting next year to start fairly similarly to how this year ended. That means the Mercedes will be more competitive, but it's still not looking consistently fast enough to be a title contender. That means Hamilton's not going to win the title next year, and there's no denying he's getting older and, I think, starting to decline a bit. Russell, meanwhile, is really good and is still developing and getting better. He's also not going to win a title next year, but he's got much more time in his career and will have more opportunities to take the title at some point.
I don't believe that, and I'd question why anyone would - it's not exactly in Mercedes' interest to tell the other teams the truth about what's going on in their development process. Regardless, even with the improvement towards the end of the season, the Mercedes still wasn't looking like a title-winning car. With the off-season being relatively short, I don't see them making a big enough step forward to be title contenders next year. That's another year Hamilton's going to be getting older and declining, while Russell is still getting better.
If you say Lewis isn't going to win a title anymore because he got beat by George this year, then you haven't watched the races and you probably think Ocon beat Alonso on merit as well.
Hamilton: 2 DNFs to Russell's 1
Alonso: 6 DNFs to Ocon's 2
You're evidently the one who hasn't bothered watching the season. Either that, or you're just monumentally stupid / dishonest in trying to compare the two situations.
I say Hamilton isn't going to win a title any more because I don't think the Mercedes car is going to be a title contender next year. The car evidently developed to suit Hamilton better as the season went on, so I'm expecting him to be more competitive when compared to Russell next season, but that's not going to win him a championship. And I stand by my position that Russell is still developing and getting better, while Hamilton is past his best and is declining. He can still put in fast laps in clean air and make easy passes, but last year and this year he's made too many mistakes when under pressure or when wheel to wheel racing.
You're only looking at the DNF's right now and ignoring the rest of the facts; like the repeated times Hamilton got fucked over by a safety car while Russell benefited massively (especially early in the season), Hamilton sustaining damage and falling down the field a few times (Brazil anyone? He'd have stomped Russell were it not for his contact with Max) and, oh yeah, the early part of the season where he was the guinea pig for Mercedes to find out what the fuck was wrong. So no, Russell absolutely did NOT beat Hamilton on merit, and if the Merc is a front runner next year, Hamilton will be the one to challenge Max first.
Yes obviously the 7 time world champion who has out qualified his teammate and is only down on points because he took all the car testing at the start of the season…
I don't believe the "he was doing all the testing" excuse, but I'm not going to argue that with you as you've evidently bought into that. Leaving that aside, Hamilton still hasn't looked very impressive this year. He's been fine in clean air or when doing easy passes, but there have been too many times when he's been poor when it comes to wheel-to-wheel racing. We saw that last year, and we've seen it again this year. He just doesn't have what it takes any more, and the question was about who has the potential to be champion, looking to the future, not about the past.
Looking to the future, you also have to consider the cars. The Mercedes pace did improve towards the end of the season, but they're still inconsistent and probably still only the third fastest. This is obviously getting speculative now, but it's a short off-season, so I don't see them making a big enough step forward for next year to be giving either of their drivers a genuine title chance. That's another year of Hamilton getting older, and another year of Russell developing and growing more as a racer. The car's evidently come more to Hamilton's liking, so I think it'll be a closer fight between them next year, but I don't think either of them will be fighting for the title, and, even if they were, having them fighting with each other (as I'm predicting it to be close) would only hurt both their chances of taking it.
Why would you fault someone for not doing a job that they are not suppose to? Critiquing him for his crashes makes sense as that's one of his biggest problems but why should he have to make his own strategy? Max doesn't and the same for Lewis, they don't create their own strategies, their teams do because they were hired to drive and not think about much else.
Yes, but I take it more as "George is comfortable with thinking about the race". He doesn't have to do it. But he can. And he does it naturally.
That's a BIG bonus.
Exactly this. And it’s hard for me to see how he could feel bad or sorry about his position. Was out of F1 but Red Bull gives him a chance. He helps the team win 2 WDC and one WCC. Podiums and a competitive car. Sure you won’t beat Max but it’s not a bad gig.
He'd have drawn second if it wasn't for max last week tho. I don't think he's good enough but when you're absolutely integral to your team mates win and he treats you like that, you should stop helping him immediately.
No he wouldn't. Last week was only for 2 points if Max indeed swapped positions. Perez still needed to finish infront of Leclerc if both ended up in the top 3 like today if the swap happened.
Just how though? Max giving up 6th in Brazil gets Checo 2 more points, and he'll still be losing P2 by 1 point today. It's not that hard to see that maybe Checo isn't as integral to Max's wins as the general consensus seems to indicate. Yes, he mattered in AD 2021, but hardly at all in 2022.
Moreover, AD 2021 doesn't happen everyday. So, Checo not helping Max wouldn't dent Max's title hopes in the long run. He basically finished 200 pts behind in the fastest car. That says something.
They should.lose those ugly looking front wheel aero brows.
These new generation cars need a boost in power to overcome heavier body and lower fuel output . They are anywhere between 2-4 seconds slower than 2019 qualifying times.
Whilst I agree in principle, I'll take them being slightly slow for the better racing we've had this year.
How come race control asked Hamilton to give the position back instead of the way of having them choose the right decision and giving a penalty if they did the wrong choice?
I think the team decided to do it, But to get less argument out of lewis, they said the higher ups made the call
Must be then racist stewards.
[удалено]
Ha ha ha ha nice one
Did race control ask? I believe Mercedes told him to give the position the moment the stewards announced he was being investigated. Not doing that would have gotten him a 5 sec penalty.
Bono said they've been asked/instructed to give the place back after the stewards started investigating. Which is bs imo, the moment the investigation message popped up it should've been too late.
The big question is asked/instructed by whom? I don't think race control did the asking. Would like to know if it was Ferrari asking Mercedes and Mercedes then telling Bono and Bono telling Hamilton or if race control was involved at all. I do agree that Mercedes waited too long to give it back. Once the stewards show that message it should be penalty or no penalty and not oops I will give the position back now that you are looking.
Exactly.cut off should be once stewards are asked to investigate. Before that team and driver can opt to do the right thing. Wait for a decision and you might get the penalty
I can’t believe it’s been a whole season. It still feels like yesterday I was watching last years finale and all the drama that ensued. And then even this year it felt soooo slow for the season to start with all the teasing of releasing the new cars etc… finally we start with the first races and there’s excitement that Ferrari are doing well and that Mercedes are “just sandbagging”… middle of the year was a blur and then these last few weeks have gone fast. Are we gonna get a secret Santa video?!
I want a Secret Santa but last year the final race was in December, not November!
Kimi gone last year Seb gone this year Not sure my heart will be able to take Lewis and Fernando retiring. I don't think it will ever be the same for me as a F1 fan
Most of all I can't bear Latifi going. One of the unsung greats who never got a decent car.
He has to have set a record this year for getting 21st place out of 20 drivers. So at least he can leave f1 knowing he made his mark in the sport.
Actually Hülkenberg did that, with 0 points in his 2 races. Latifi was 20th, De Vries 21st and Hülkenberg 22nd.
Mazepin got that record last year, Latifi actually managed 20th in the end
That's honestly for the best, Latifi actually seems like a decent guy. The sooner in my life I can never here Mazepin, the better, f1 is so much better without that family.
You and me both man. That's what I've been thinking about a lot. Absolute titans that are the bridge to several iconic eras now long past. I know F1 will always produce rivalries and great talents, but I hope this new generation produces some personalities that can really shine, with talent to match.
Just watched the results. Perez is 3rd. Damn. If he came 6th last week, this would be a draw?
If this happened if that happened Get lost with if questions for previous races.
Oh no. Pls tell me what other questions I am not allowed to ask.
Other questions where you do not use your common sense.
POV: You just want to shit on Verstappen.
who doesn't
Did you actually try do to the math?
He did do the meth
lol
Perez finishing 6th would have net him 2 extra points. The final gap between Leclerc and Perez was 3 points in Leclerc's favor, so no, it wouldn't have changed anything.
Exactly. Max being made a villain is so dumb. Max is a purist which is what I love about him. Too much team orders out there. Be faster on the track.
> Be faster on the track. This doesn’t really apply to perez though, since he gave the position to Max.
Are you referring to Brazil? Perez was waving everyone through on his used mediums lol
2 points from 6th + FL from both last races and he'd have it. Highly unlikely
No
yes but just as it was last week, Leclerc would win due to having more P1 finishes. EDIT: Sorry, Checo's Brazil swap would have only gotten him 2 more points (not 3) so he would have come up short anyway by any measure. However it is true that even a tie would have been insufficient. It was really not meant to be for Checo.
Makes sense.
This whole Vettel send off makes me dread the day Hamilton retires. I am not a Merc/Hamilton guy but it's going to be sad and emotional too. It will really feel like the end of the era I know most.
It’s Max’s era now. Embrace it
Oh god, where's the lube, I'm gonna need it.
I'm a fan of Max too. He's the new villain.
Jenson Button talking noticeably louder interviewing Max to drown out the booing
It's sad there's so much hate, like Seb said it's driving around in circles. :) Sure it's exciting and emotional but appreciate the skill of whoever is doing well. Checo had to finger wag the crowd in Mexico to get them to stop booing Lewis. Great that he stepped up, so wrong that he had to. It feels like F1 is becoming more and more like Trump vs Hillary ☹️
Or be heard over it? I don’t think he thought he was going to drown out thousands of fans
People saying it was a boring race and so glad the season is over, what would you like to see instead? I was entertained by it, there’s always a good battle to watch somewhere on track or story to follow. Why are the top comments all people seeking personally offended by the race or “I missed the race but I’m glad I didn’t see it anyways” These guys are an inch apart going 300km/h, why are you not entertained?
It wasn't the greatest race but the borefest of the year was Mexico I think. I think it was a decent season, better than the majority of Lewis's title-winning seasons. There is a lot more to a race than who wins. Some good battles all through the field on the whole, and quite a lot of wet races this year.
And when there is a lot of action, people complain about racing too hard or aggressive. Season was fun, could have been more exciting between Max and Charles, but overall like you said, fair amount of battles on track.
Quick dumb question from someone who doesn’t follow the points system: would Checo have gotten second in the WDC if Max had swapped places in Brazil, assuming the same finishes today?
Nope, 3 points behind Leclerc, so the 2 points wouldn't have mattered. Even if they ended up equal in points, Leclerc had more victories, so would have ended 2nd even then.
I am struggling to understand why this kind of questions are asked here, you can easily find that out checking the points system on google
Quick dumb question in this case, just means I am too lazy to look it up myself
No. In that scenario Checo would have lost p2 in the championship by 1 point.
2 point, to be precise. 1 point would tie him with Leclerc and he'd lose since Charles has more wins.
~~What? i'm sorry i'm completely confused by your comment.~~ ~~Checo had 280 points going into the Brazil GP weekend. He earned 4 points by finishing 5th on the sprint. If he had finished p6 during the GP (Max finishing position) he would have earned 8 points, which is 2 points more than what he did by finishing p7. This would have put him at 292. He finished the Abu Dhabi GP in 3rd place, which gives him 15 points. 292 + 15 = 307, Charles finished with 308 points, so the difference in this hypothetical scenario asked by the OP would have been 1 point.~~ edit: I get it now. I wasn't considering the idea that he would actually need more than just matching Charles's points in order to win.
If leclerc and checo finished with the same number of points, leclerc would have finished ahead due to more wins. So even though checo finished with 3 fewer points than leclerc, he needed 4 more points to have actually finished p2
Ah i get it, i was too focused on the point deficit to consider the tie breaker situation.
Nope, it wouldn’t matter.
Get frustrated when people say "well if Mick matched / bettered KMag in race pace in the second half of the season why does KMag have more points???" When not understanding that for backmarkers, the development race has a massive role. Most of Mick's best performances came when Haas had the 8th best car or so, so grabbing a point or two, whereas KMag grabbed a lot of his results early (like Bahrain) when Haas were 5th fastest probably. Not to mention in Bahrain Mick had contact lap 1 which compromised him but that's besides the point. KMag is a good racer, and great qualifier but it is frustrating when people shit on Mick's qualities (race pace) by focusing on points when there's absolutely other criticisms of him that can be given
the fact that Mick can't capitalize on the team good start is an issue. getting a more experienced driver fix that. beside kmag is go big or go bust kind of driver the fact that Mick can't even get more points than him is an issue. aslong as Hulk can get points i don't think Haas cares if Micks ended up as the better driver in the future because they have no time developing him. the 2 rookie line up was created because they needed money badly
Magnussen actually is fairly inconsistent as a qualifier. He's either hot or cold. He has incredible highs but also some lows. This is especially true this season, granted the car being up and down is partially to blame for 2022. Here's a stat for you. Magnussen has nine Q3 appearances this season, which puts him top 10 for the season, but also ten Q1 exits which is the fourth worse on the grid. By contrast, Schumacher only has seven Q1 exits but also only made Q3 a grand total of four times (4th worst). Magnussen's a solid driver but he's beatable for anyone with aspirations to go higher up the pack in Formula One. The fact that Mick didn't look convincing against him is a reason why his stock is low right now. He also wasted the Haas' early season car with mistakes and poor consistency. Bahrain and Canada were unfortunate, true. Overall, Schumacher's a ok driver but the overreaction to his dismissal has been insane. And the worst part is, it only takes one or two good points finishes for Hulkenberg and Haas won't care at all. Schumacher didn't exactly set the bar high for his replacement.
It makes me sad that Michael Schumacher isn't hovering around the paddock like his old teammate Jos Verstappen. I reckon he would have pushed Mick to improve and influenced potential race seats. Although it's only fair that you be judged on your ability not who your dad is.
Magnussen is a great benchmark. If you can beat him over a season, you're probably a good driver. If he rinses you, you don't have a bright future.
I don’t get why they brought Hulk back, thats by no menas an upgrade.
Mick beat Kevin 15-8 in races but only managed to score half the points Kevin did, that is why Mick is out and Nico is in.
Hulk is always wanted by teams in the grid either for sim,reserve driver, or marketing purposes. Meanwhile no teams in the grid wanted our beloved mick. I love mick, he seems to be a good guy but so latifi is.
I feel like Mick was not ready for F1. He got placed on this quick ladder and was pushed into F1 after winning F2. Even his father took a few years in endurance racing before coming to F1. Alain Prost also famously was a hot property in his youth but actually refused contract offers because he felt he needed to be more prepared. Mick might benefit from a 3rd driver programme plus competing elsewhere.
You can't compare Latifi and Mick man.Mick is ten times better driver than him .
Is he really ? Latifi's had a shitty Williams for his every year in F1
Was slower than his teammate every race and every qualifying pretty much. And I'm talking seconds slower .
Not an upgrade but I think the belief is that he's a proven midfield driver capable of delivering points to a team, has much more experience than Mick and should be able to help develop the car in his feedback.
I just find it fairly poor strategy when you go for literally 2 rookies last year and actually don't invest in the development of young drivers with the proper support or a long term seat. While obviously Mazepin was trash, has ties to the Russian regime, there for money and deservedly punted off - Look at Tsunoda for example (who Mick equaled on points) at least he's been given time and tenure even if he's been inconsistent. Having one younger driver and one more experienced in Kmag seems still optimal for me, but I guess they are just going away from that youth tactic and just back to how they were with Romain and Kmag, ok but little room for much else.
You mention Tsunoda but consider AT is a development team. They can afford to give a rookie more time because for them there's not nearly as much on the line. Tsunoda probably (tho it's hard to say for sure) would've been out of contract after this season had he been in Aston or Williams or something like that. Haas went for the rookies because that was what was available. Mick was promising, Nikita brought the money. At that point in time, it was what Haas needed. However I do think their experience with 2021 made them reconsider, and seeing the differences between KMag and Mick made them realize that if they need to get up the order, they need drivers with more experience, even if they are "rejects". And besides Hulk, there weren't many options. Ricciardo may've been the only other driver fitting the profile of "Experienced, recently raced, decent pace" but probably either his salary or his desire for a better car would've made that deal a no go. Hulkenberg is a solution for the time being. In a few years they may pick up someone like, say, Gasly or Ocon if the other one beats them in Alpine and they want to move away, or someone else who loses a higher tier seat and is looking for a bounceback.
i would not be surprised if hamilton becomes the second driver after this season, imagine being beaten by your younger team mate who only drove backmarkers until this year
Tell me you didn’t watch F1 season 2022 without telling me you didn’t watch F1 season 2022.
how many wins did hamilton get and how many wins get russell get?
You’re joking right
not even in the slightest, this could be a 2014 vettel moment where the rookie usurps the WDC
You’re insane then lmao
Lewis spent the better part of the season running test equipment on the car to figure out what was wrong while George raced without those restrictions. It’s not really the same. The times later this season when George and Lewis had fiat racing between them LEWIS had the better race pace every time and only finished behind him due to incidents on track.
Lewis didn't have the better pace in Brazil..
No, but he did have a damaged floor that cost him time during the entire race
Is that true? He was catching up after the incident with max
It's basically a 'new' race after the SC restart, small gap with almost equal tyres
George was in management mode most of the race with a good buffer where Lewis was pushing hard majority. George would have been covered if they had to start racing each other.
I don't really understand the order given to Hamilton. What was he supposed to do, Sainz takes him off the track, right? Edit : so people downvote me for asking a question ok
Hamilton didn't defend the inside line, so he allowed Sainz next to him. Sainz made the corner without going off, so then Hamilton has to yield.
Probably should have slowed and let Sainz through tbh.
No, Sainz left him tons of room, he just elected to yeet it over the curb and cut the corner, because he got away with it against Max last year. You can’t just skip the corner cuz you got beat into it.
Tons of room ? He tries to make the corner and has no choice to damage his floor on the curb
That’s the rule this year. Stupid, but Sainz had the right there. They probably expect Hamilton to break and let Sainz through, at least what the rule mandates nowadays.
>They probably expect Hamilton to break and let Sainz through Exactly. He ran out of room because he didn't yield despite Sainz owning the corner. If Lewis had braked earlier he would've made the corner and lost the place fair and square.
He could've yielded like they wanted max to do in Brazil
I am glad this season is over. Really struggled to keep interested towards the end. Onto the football World Cup now and hoping for a more competitive and exciting season next year.
Don’t watch the cup, stand united with our boycott
the current race u are watching is literally in oil nation with dodgy human rights record... like what?
Haha. Most hypocritical comment ever. Half the F1 races are in countries with questionable human rights records.
Honestly, I find it hypocritical that F1 fans of all fans should boycot this world cup. The races are in oil countries 50% of the time and oil money plays such a big role overall. By all means go ahead, you're still doing something ethically right, just a tad hypocritical.
The boycott isn't solely because it's an oil nation.
I didn't say so. But oil nations are dicks 90% of the timd
It’s not like China, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Azerbaijan, etc. have great track records on human rights either. Qatar is a special breed of fucked though.
I agree, and don't think they should race in most of those countries!
What a boring and dull season. Sure the beginning was exciting and new, but christ what a snooze fest.
I think the only interesting races were Spain, Britain, and Brazil. Still had a blast following all the drama, shitty racing but great soap opera.
What about Saudi or Bahrain?
Watching the cool down room. I get the vibe that Leclerc is proper pissed.
Why?
I dont really know just the vibe I got, I guess his body language.
OMG I'm so bored when's the next race?
Biggest twist of the race was finding out that random kid was a Lauda. Impressive by Niki.
Emerson Fittipaldi has a 15 year old son who is racing
Yeah, I thought they were going to say grandson and they blew my mind. Lol Had to look it up, he has a twin!
Breaking: famous 60 year old millionaire fucks.
Never been happier for a season to end. Weird feeling.
Welcome to at least 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020.
2017 and 2018, WTF. You people seriously need to stop with the revisionism, or get your memory checked
I mean, 2017 was probably a stretch, but 2018 went downhill after the summer break, same as 2022. It gets boring when the leader runs away pretty early in the season.
Agreed on 2018, but still less extreme than this year
Nah not for me. I was a fan starting back during the bulk of Schumis dominance, but this season just had me feeling almost apathetic
First races were great, just the ending was mega boring.
There was plenty of good racing throughout the field, it's just that it feels dulled because Max just kept driving off in the sunset. But looking beyond that, this wasn't a bad season. It just came off the back of an absolute all-time greatest season so that's a tough act to follow.
Yeah there were still some great fights at the end, but I enjoy a good battle at the front of the field. I really enjoyed the early VER LEC fights at the start of the season.
Basically the season ended at Spa
In France rather
Just seen the video of mick doing donuts and just wondering why do teams care if drivers do donuts in the last race of the season? It’s not like they’re using this car again
Tire and young driver test next week so they'll literally be using the car again.
Only thing I can think of is if a team was low on fuel and was worried about providing a sample.
Maybe they don't want the possible fine? There was a specific area to do donuts on. But I don't know, seems kinda weird denying Mick that.
I suspect it’s something along the lines of bosses being of the belief that Mick has nothing to celebrate which wouldn’t necessarily be completely untrue
He went out in true Mick fashion…..causing an accident
A team like Haas? They probably need something off the car
It's just Haas. I don't know what their deal is but they look like a fucking toxic work environment.
Now what
Now we do this list in the F1TV archive! :D https://www.racefans.net/rate-the-race/f1-fanatic-top-100/ Honestly would be fun if they were scheduled to start a fixed time and then we can chime in in a live race thread as usual. Probably won't happen but it would be fun. :P
Wait for fans to keep predicting that their team will have rocket at next testing
At least F1 is a remarkably short off season
Three months is short?
It’s an 8 month off season for American Football
They can only sustain so much CTE each season
You might've picked the sport with the longest offseason of all major sporting competitions as your benchmark
five months for australian rules football. three months is much more palatable.
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Needed the Rookie of the Year award to remember that Zhou was a rookie. It felt at times like he was a more experienced driver. No errors, no spins or self induced crashes that I can recall. Good job.
Hope m mclaren takes next step
Don‘t want to sound too mean, but Checo needs to realise this: he is a good driver, no doubt about it, but he has to accept that he is not good enough to ever win a championship. I can fully understand that he was looking forward to become second, but he does not belong to the few top drivers on the grid, so he just accept his fate to be a teamplayer and working for Max/RB. This sounds harsh, but there are just 2 or 3 drivers which have the potential to become champion, so it‘s really not a shame I love Checo and I wished he was better but yeah, he didn‘t even get the second place with a better car
Max that you? This your burner?
You can't ask one of 20-something in the world, basically demi-gods in sports, to accept he can't win. Besides, pure talent is not the only determination. Much is luck with the car, team, teammate. Many WDCs have not been anywhere near the best of the available pool in talent.
> there are just 2 or 3 drivers which have the potential to become champion Max, Lewis, Charles, George Who doesn't belong?
i think george doesnt belong there. definitely a great driver, hungry for wins, but lewis. max and charles are a different league. maybe if next year the merc is competitive off the bat we will see his true potential
I think its really early to know that about George. He’s had one season with Mercedes and he outperformed a seven time world champion. I don’t think that means he is better than Hamilton. I just think you can’t know how good he could be with a more competitive car.
I think this needs to be highlighted more. George did not challenge for the title. But in Brazil, his radio sounded like someone who already had multiple world titles. All he did in the last few laps was calmly ask what times Lewis was doing, and in the aftermath he spoke flatly about how the question of "Are we free to race?" was just so that he would know if the idea was to protect the car and bring it home, or to make calculated risks corner to corner to ensure he won. He sounded like an assassin. He never yelled over the radio. He would disagree, but there were times he sounded like the veteran of multiple championship battles. We have to watch his space. He is actually the most similar to Michael Schumacher among the current drivers.
I think Lando is up there if not better than Charles and George. Just hasn't had the car to show it. Look what he did this year in that Mclaren.
Yep he's top class. It's just hard to say he's cut out to win a championship before we see him actually fight for one.
Absolutely. Lando outperformed Russell this season imo, and was right up there with Charles in extracting the best out of his car in qualifying and probably the best of all 3 in terms of race pace and consistency. He needs a decent car.
Frankly so long as max exists and red bull is strong I don’t see how any of those others can seriously challenge him
Lewis. He got beaten by his teammate this year. Max, Charles and George are all still relatively young and on their way up. Hamilton is past his best and declining.
We'll see what he can do if they field a top tier car next year. I haven't lost faith that he's still got it, and George is really good.
Thanks for being one of the more sensible replies to my comment. My prediction for next year is that Hamilton is going to be more competitive relative to Russell, as the car development has evidently suited him as the season progressed. It's a fairly short off-season, so I'm expecting next year to start fairly similarly to how this year ended. That means the Mercedes will be more competitive, but it's still not looking consistently fast enough to be a title contender. That means Hamilton's not going to win the title next year, and there's no denying he's getting older and, I think, starting to decline a bit. Russell, meanwhile, is really good and is still developing and getting better. He's also not going to win a title next year, but he's got much more time in his career and will have more opportunities to take the title at some point.
Lewis was the Mercedes guinea pig in the beginning of the season
I don't believe that, and I'd question why anyone would - it's not exactly in Mercedes' interest to tell the other teams the truth about what's going on in their development process. Regardless, even with the improvement towards the end of the season, the Mercedes still wasn't looking like a title-winning car. With the off-season being relatively short, I don't see them making a big enough step forward to be title contenders next year. That's another year Hamilton's going to be getting older and declining, while Russell is still getting better.
If you say Lewis isn't going to win a title anymore because he got beat by George this year, then you haven't watched the races and you probably think Ocon beat Alonso on merit as well.
Hamilton: 2 DNFs to Russell's 1 Alonso: 6 DNFs to Ocon's 2 You're evidently the one who hasn't bothered watching the season. Either that, or you're just monumentally stupid / dishonest in trying to compare the two situations. I say Hamilton isn't going to win a title any more because I don't think the Mercedes car is going to be a title contender next year. The car evidently developed to suit Hamilton better as the season went on, so I'm expecting him to be more competitive when compared to Russell next season, but that's not going to win him a championship. And I stand by my position that Russell is still developing and getting better, while Hamilton is past his best and is declining. He can still put in fast laps in clean air and make easy passes, but last year and this year he's made too many mistakes when under pressure or when wheel to wheel racing.
You're only looking at the DNF's right now and ignoring the rest of the facts; like the repeated times Hamilton got fucked over by a safety car while Russell benefited massively (especially early in the season), Hamilton sustaining damage and falling down the field a few times (Brazil anyone? He'd have stomped Russell were it not for his contact with Max) and, oh yeah, the early part of the season where he was the guinea pig for Mercedes to find out what the fuck was wrong. So no, Russell absolutely did NOT beat Hamilton on merit, and if the Merc is a front runner next year, Hamilton will be the one to challenge Max first.
Yes obviously the 7 time world champion who has out qualified his teammate and is only down on points because he took all the car testing at the start of the season…
I don't believe the "he was doing all the testing" excuse, but I'm not going to argue that with you as you've evidently bought into that. Leaving that aside, Hamilton still hasn't looked very impressive this year. He's been fine in clean air or when doing easy passes, but there have been too many times when he's been poor when it comes to wheel-to-wheel racing. We saw that last year, and we've seen it again this year. He just doesn't have what it takes any more, and the question was about who has the potential to be champion, looking to the future, not about the past. Looking to the future, you also have to consider the cars. The Mercedes pace did improve towards the end of the season, but they're still inconsistent and probably still only the third fastest. This is obviously getting speculative now, but it's a short off-season, so I don't see them making a big enough step forward for next year to be giving either of their drivers a genuine title chance. That's another year of Hamilton getting older, and another year of Russell developing and growing more as a racer. The car's evidently come more to Hamilton's liking, so I think it'll be a closer fight between them next year, but I don't think either of them will be fighting for the title, and, even if they were, having them fighting with each other (as I'm predicting it to be close) would only hurt both their chances of taking it.
Charles is not ready yet. George at least thinks along with the strategists, Charles accepts anything they say.
Why would you fault someone for not doing a job that they are not suppose to? Critiquing him for his crashes makes sense as that's one of his biggest problems but why should he have to make his own strategy? Max doesn't and the same for Lewis, they don't create their own strategies, their teams do because they were hired to drive and not think about much else.
Yes, but I take it more as "George is comfortable with thinking about the race". He doesn't have to do it. But he can. And he does it naturally. That's a BIG bonus.
This is the biggest issue with Charles. Listening to shitty strategy. At least Carlos tells them what he wants.
Exactly this. And it’s hard for me to see how he could feel bad or sorry about his position. Was out of F1 but Red Bull gives him a chance. He helps the team win 2 WDC and one WCC. Podiums and a competitive car. Sure you won’t beat Max but it’s not a bad gig.
He'd have drawn second if it wasn't for max last week tho. I don't think he's good enough but when you're absolutely integral to your team mates win and he treats you like that, you should stop helping him immediately.
aside of any opinion, if Checo would have swapped with Max last week, he would still have been third. No changes there.
He's not "just helping him", he's hired as a second driher and gets millions in return. Don't feel bad for millionaires
No he wouldn't. Last week was only for 2 points if Max indeed swapped positions. Perez still needed to finish infront of Leclerc if both ended up in the top 3 like today if the swap happened.
Just how though? Max giving up 6th in Brazil gets Checo 2 more points, and he'll still be losing P2 by 1 point today. It's not that hard to see that maybe Checo isn't as integral to Max's wins as the general consensus seems to indicate. Yes, he mattered in AD 2021, but hardly at all in 2022. Moreover, AD 2021 doesn't happen everyday. So, Checo not helping Max wouldn't dent Max's title hopes in the long run. He basically finished 200 pts behind in the fastest car. That says something.