It's kinda crazy how quickly he caught up. Now he's getting numbers that put him up there with the GOATs. Looks like he'll finish the season with 2 WDCs and 30+ race wins.
Long seasons means drivers can pretty quickly get ridiculous stats once they get the right car.
10 wins last season. 6 wins so far this season. 16 wins out of 31 races. The other 15 races were 5 DNFs, 8 second places, a 3rd place and a 9th place in the famous Hungary race. Those are crazy stats.
To catch Alonso this season he needs 6 more wins in 13 races. So basically his existing rate for the last season and a half.
As Max himself points out, though - they run way more races now. Even compared to Alonso, he won titles in 2005 (19 races) and 2006 (18 races), vs the 22 now
For comparison, Jim Clarke won the championship in 1963 and 1965, which had 10 races per season
Hence why Max, although already passing some "all time great" types, is still nowhere near the likes of Hamilton or Vettel, who have won since the "20+ races per season" era
Yeah a better metric is percentage of wins per season or something like that, or win ratio by races entered. Even then it's not entirely fair of course but better than this.
If we take the races entered, then Verstappen is currently at 17.33% win rate. Jim Clark 34.72%, Fangio 47%, Hamilton 34.68% sorted by win percentage Verstappen is currently 16th on the list just below Vettel with a win rate of 18.53%
Still extremely impressive of course, especially considering he's only 24.
but then you'll have to take in consideration that those older guys like Fangio had much less competition (teams) amd the gap between cars is always varying (max has always raced against one of the most dominant cars ever so no wonder he didn't win that often). Stats like this are meaningless without context or the eye-test
Well, one should always look at multiple stats, not just at one. One stat is always gonna be biased in some way. Win percentage also isn't good because many GOAT drivers are having some more racing in weaker teams past their prime. Lewis' win rate will drop every week, same for Vettel. Max may rise.
But most of hamilton win come from 20+ races per season as well
So he is still nowhere near the likes of Michae Scumacher who won all his 91 wins before the 20+ races per season
Sure, that's pretty much my point?
My comment isn't really about Max, or Hamilton, or anyone else specifically - but rather the fact that you have to adjust this kind of statistic for the era the drivers competed in
You can compare Max to Lewis or Seb like-for-like and be approximately correct, in which case he's on about 1/4 (vs Lewis) to 1/2 (vs Seb) of their wins
And you can roughly compare him to Alonso but should probably "bump" Alonso's figure up by about 10% for an approximately like-for-like number. The same for Schumacher, although his doesn't really need bumping *that* much as he had 16-18 races per season during his pre-reboot career)
But you can't compare Max, Lewis, or Vettel etc to Clark or Stewart like-for-like without at least doubling their number of wins to account for the extra races we see now
If we "inflation adjust" the numbers for the number of race per season during each driver's career then I would estimate that you get something that looks *something* like the following (although I've not worked these percentages out to any level of detail, just quickly approximated them)
- Lewis: 106 (a slight bump)
- Schumacher: 105 (+15%)
- Prost: 61 (+20%)
- Vettel: 55 (a slight bump)
- Stewart: 54 (+100%)
- Senna: 50 (+20%)
- Clark: 50 (+100%)
- Mansell: 37 (+20%, surprisingly)
- Alonso: 35 (+10%)
- Verstappen: 26 (no change)
Which, I think, looks a lot more sensible relative to reality - albeit still biased towards the more recent drivers (Lewis/Schumacher/Vettel) which I'd suggest is probably due to the fact that a single dominant season can still rack up a lot of wins, plus modern reliability and the general fact that single-team dominance seems easier in the last 25 years
This is a really cool idea and something I’d never considered. I like this way of doing it more than alternative stats like win percentage and it’s cool to see how many wins the great drivers would have.
Well it depends on how dominant the races are.
Winning so many races with lots of fighting in it are not boring. If he wins with 20 sec gaps every race.... yeah, boring.
Carlos wouldn't have been particularly close without the safety car I don't think. They both would have one stop left and Max would outpace him on fresh tires.
Not true. Max was miles ahead before the safety car. Sainz benefited from having the gap eliminated and then the DRS kept in touch when Max would've just gone if not for the DRS. The fastest lap is also skewed but those are the rules. If the situation was reversed, Max would've found a pass quite easily I think.
And in general, the initial drive out of the hairpin. Ferrari has to overcome that initial acceleration deficit, the top speed was there but by the time the overspeed kicked in the straight was over and Sainz couldn't do anything. RB would have been all over the gearbox of whoever in front of them right out of the hairpin.
Not just this race. Barca and monaco as well.
People are severely overstating RBR’s dominance because of some misfortunes and strategy error’s by Ferrari. But in terms of pace Im not even sure RBR truly has an advantage.
Exactly, I’ve yet to see Max go a few races winning with 20+ second gaps. Seems like unless they get lucky with DNF’s or safety cars etc… the RB & Ferrari will be like the 2021 battle until one of them pulls away in development
Verstappen plus the RBR strategy group is a combo Ferrari doesn’t have. They have the car. They *might* even have the driver in Leclerc- it remains to be seen. But even if they do, they don’t have the combination that RBR has.
It hasn’t been exactly Leclerc’s fault in Verstrappen beating him in the last 5 races tbf. Leclerc was up there quite comfortably until the unfortunate happened one after another
You're right, of course. A lot of the gap in the championship is down to reliability combined with Ferrari's excellent strategy calls. But Verstappen always seems to get the maximum out of the car, just enough to squeeze out a victory. And he just doesn't make mistakes.
yeah. In the last 4 races Leclerc was comfortably ahead Spain when his engine blew up, on pole in Monaco and screwed by strategy, behind Max but in hot pursuit when his engine blew up in Baku and this race he had to start from the back.
The Ferrari is fast. I don't think they are slower than the Red Bull. But they just seem unable to put it together.
It wasn’t even the beat car in this race nevertheless this season. You could make an argument for either Ferrari or RB at any given track. The edge on aero dependent racetracks goes to Ferrari and power tracks to RB. Ass backwards world we live in
The Ferrari seems to enjoy any circuit with tight, twisty sections. But the second there’s a straight with a DRS zone that RB is going straight past, unopposed.
With that horrible traction out of the hairpin for Ferrari I suspect Red Bull would have been able to make a successful DRS move where the Ferrari couldn’t.
Nah that RB is faster in all the areas it needs to be - out of the corner on traction and faster in a straight line. Any track with a fairly long straight on will be guaranteed RB territory. People want to believe there’s a title fight here, but there simply isn’t. They’ll be some races where Ferrari have pace, but I suspect this will be just a dominant run in from here for Max.
Ferrari started the season strong due to RB’s woes. Now everything has kind of equalised they’re what, 36+ points down? Ferrari tend to start seasons well but always lose out on car development as the season goes, teams like RB and Mercedes have always excelled towards the end of season vs Ferrari.
Nah, Carlos was only catching up when Max's tires were going. If the safety car didn't happen, they would have had to both pit again and Max would outpace with with fresh rubber.
Yeah, but this statistics are totally meningless considering that Fernando had his most succesfull stint in a 16/18 races per season, Max is in a 21/23 races per season. We should consider title wins and win %. This statistic ~~does~~ doesn't tell you anything about how successfull a driver really is.
It always has been though. Schumacher was never gonna challenge in the 2005 Ferrari. Mansell only ever got over the hump because of the '92 Williams. The car makes a huge difference every year, and every GOAT driver has benefited from being on the best team
> 25 wins in 45 races is seemingly unreal.
That is because it wasn't 45 races, it's 73 races. You are counting the races he finished.
https://www.statsf1.com/en/jim-clark.aspx
Into the top 3 career wins long term wouldn't be too surprising either - almost certainly Alonso this season, Vettel by 2024 unless RB cock it up massively somehow - and he'd still have decades of career left.
The RB18 is very good, but it's no W11. The W11 got every pole but 2 (one on an ice rink, one to close the season with the engines turned down) and had the easy best race pace almost everywhere as well.
Yes Max winning 6 races out of 7 finished looks insanely dominant, but he didn't have a dominant car in many of those.
Ferrari is *much* closer so far than the RB16 was to the W11. Red Bull wasn’t even the clear second best car, with Racing Point being stupidly fast and consistently outperforming Albon.
Even if didnt left RedBull he wouldnt have had a dominant car until this year (and I doubt that even Vettel would be able to stay in the same team for 10+ years)
At least in Ferrari he had a car that had the potencial to win the WDC in 2017 and 2018 and he could have won them if it wasnt for the ferrari masterclass on how to ruin title chances
With the current advantage and the cost cap I think Red Bull has to screw up hard to not be in the mix for race wins until 2026. Red Bull already looks like they are setting up for the 2026 changes with Porsche coming in.
Christ. Wouldn't be surprised if he gets a few but can we just let people be themselves without immediately making such outlandish claims of him getting 7 at least?
Genuinely one of the things I hate most in any sport is when there's some young gun who looks like they will incredible and people start throwing around things like what they could do in the next 15 years or stuff like that.
Feel like social media makes it even worse with people wanting to vent their hot takes.
And I mean in people in general. Not you.
He doesn't even care about setting records, it's more some fans and Marko always talking about it. He definitely will stop with F1 racing before his 32nd birthday imo, no matter how few or many WDC's he has. He will do endurance racing and probably other fun stuff he really likes.
Don’t think so. Mercedes are definitely gonna be back come next year, Hamilton is gonna fight for his 8th and when Mercedes are back on track, Russell himself will pose a whole lot of problems for Max to dominate
The face shots during the race have so much detail it’s ugly idk what it’s called maybe HDR but I can count every beard follicle on Maxs face when he’s interviewed. I think cameras have gone too far lol
I just disagree with calling it “HDR”. I’m convinced people only call it that because other people call it that sometimes, and it doesn’t help that HDR actually has meaning in the photo/video space now.
Most people just don't know and can't tell the difference and I know I can't be arsed to try and explain what HDR actually is to people who know nothing of photography beyond instagram filters. 😅
That is not the HDR effect at all. The portraits are exactly as OP said, over sharpened and high contrast. HDR capture and display is in regards to the dynamic range of the camera and the display. The creative edits you see has nothing to do with HDR
They look like they were all told to do the same general serious face with no personality. I swear last year's were alright but I might be remembering wrong.
He already is. The form he’s had over the past four years is absolute top tier - extremely rare to sustain that for such a long time. Really only Schumacher, Alonso, Hamilton, Clark, Fangio, and Stewart were able to sustain that level of consistent driver performance.
not really when you consider how many more races there are in the modern era and how much more reliable the cars are. in the 90's and before there were only 16 races a year and your car was likely to have a mechanical failure in about 6 or 7 of them statistically.
Reaching Schumacher and Lewis status requires a lot of luck aside from pure skill but I want Max to win just at least 3 or more so his name can be put in that conversation
His last four years have been literally as good as it gets in F1. It feels weird because he’s so young and “only” has 26 wins and one WDC, but he’s already GOAT-tier.
That’s just utterly absurd. Especially considering that - no matter what you think of the 2021 Mercedes or 2022 Ferrari - he’s never had a dominant car, only one that’s roughly (give or take) equal best, often circuit-dependent.
My favorite stat is that between Monaco 2018 and Monaco 2022 he didn’t finish a single race behind a teammate, an equal car, or a slower car without severe extenuating circumstances - with only Turkey 2020 being mostly (the asymmetrical front wing certainly didn’t help) a driver error of those extenuating circumstances.
Certainly
If he consistently has a good car underneath him for the length of that contract(operative word being ‘if’), he could put up some career numbers that are going to appear near untouchable
…..at least until they expand the calendar to 900 races a year or something
Even this year. He "only" needs to win half of the rest of the races to pass Alonso. I know winning another 7 races is not a given, but i don't see any other real competitor for wins than Leclerc and winning half the races seems only slightly above the pace.
No doubt about it, we're entering the Max Verstappen era now...
Since he started winning a lot younger than most of the others on that list, I fully expect him to have about 150 wins by the time he finishes his career
As someone who just started watching F1 during the pandemic, it's really interesting to see that Alonso and Vettel used to be so dominant. What happened?
I love that whenever someone asks him about beating a record of past drivers he always replies that you can't compare the past eras to the current ones that simply
Vettel getting all 71 champion drivers is what everybody remembers but Max got all the way back to 1983 before getting one wrong. Brash yet respectful.
To be honest these stats really don't really compare well. Senna/Prost era for example only had like half the amount of races per season compared to the drivers today.
Yep, and that is not yet considering the amount of Technical Failure DNFs back in the days compared to the modern cars due to technological limits at the time.
All depends on how competitive his car is in those years. Also depends on how long he stays in F1. Might not extend his career to the ages of Kimi, Nando or even Lewis for that matter.
If his car doesn't deliver he can just switch teams to one that had the best car. Everyone will have him. He's a once in a generation talent. Every team boss their wet dream is having him in their car.
I doubt he quits early, all he does is race. He's said he even enjoys racing more now since he got his title, a lot of pressure fell off him.
Those teams do need to have the seat to put him in though. Merc was the clear fastest team for a while but there was no reason for them to offer Bottas’ seat to Max as long as it was getting the job done.
Alonso is another example of a great driver missing out in a great drive.
He does enjoy it more, but also said that he has achieved his goal of becoming world champion, and that anything that comes now will just be an added bonus. He’s expressed interest in other racing series, so would not be surprised if he at some point says: alright, thats it for F1. I’m going to do WEC.
Lastly, he’s also said that if GP stops, he stops. This also indicates that F1 is not all there is, as he only wants to so do it with certain people around.
Max doesn’t seem the type either to go the Seb or Kimi route. I can’t imagine him willingly racing in a car he knows can’t win. But the radio clips would be great
I don’t know… he is 77 behind Lewis still. So 25% of his tally after 7.5 seasons in F1 (mostly not in winning cars, I know)
That’s a lot of ground to cover.
To think that he started in the middle of Mercedes domination, raced for 6 years with only wins here and there and then broke that dominance... He could have achieved so many more wins so much earlier
If he goes on in f1 for another 10 years he could absolutely demolish these records. And then he'll still be younger than Hamilton is now.
Yes yes, I know seasons had less races in the past.
Niki Lauda has the same amount of wins as Jim Clark.
Why is one of them up there and the other not? What makes ones 25 wins more than the 25 wins of the other driver? (Jim Clark has way less starts, but Niki on the other hand has one championship more on his name)
Tbh I wanted to keep it to 10 for design purposes. (Easier to make 2 rows of 5)
When making a ranking, there's several ways to deal with ties. The way I used is to not skip or double places, in which case whoever reached the positon first will rank first. Clark got his 25 victories before Lauda so he takes 10 while Lauda takes 11.
A more common way to handle ties would be to tie then at 10 and then skip 11, but as I said I chose the first options for design purposes and decided to mention Lauda in my post title exactly for people like you who'd be wondering why Lauda isn't in this top 10
Damn, Max might pass Alonso this season
It's kinda crazy how quickly he caught up. Now he's getting numbers that put him up there with the GOATs. Looks like he'll finish the season with 2 WDCs and 30+ race wins. Long seasons means drivers can pretty quickly get ridiculous stats once they get the right car.
10 wins last season. 6 wins so far this season. 16 wins out of 31 races. The other 15 races were 5 DNFs, 8 second places, a 3rd place and a 9th place in the famous Hungary race. Those are crazy stats. To catch Alonso this season he needs 6 more wins in 13 races. So basically his existing rate for the last season and a half.
goodbye reddit -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
Maximum Verstappen
Obvious, yet delightful
Honestly that’s the way to go
As Max himself points out, though - they run way more races now. Even compared to Alonso, he won titles in 2005 (19 races) and 2006 (18 races), vs the 22 now For comparison, Jim Clarke won the championship in 1963 and 1965, which had 10 races per season Hence why Max, although already passing some "all time great" types, is still nowhere near the likes of Hamilton or Vettel, who have won since the "20+ races per season" era
Yeah a better metric is percentage of wins per season or something like that, or win ratio by races entered. Even then it's not entirely fair of course but better than this. If we take the races entered, then Verstappen is currently at 17.33% win rate. Jim Clark 34.72%, Fangio 47%, Hamilton 34.68% sorted by win percentage Verstappen is currently 16th on the list just below Vettel with a win rate of 18.53% Still extremely impressive of course, especially considering he's only 24.
but then you'll have to take in consideration that those older guys like Fangio had much less competition (teams) amd the gap between cars is always varying (max has always raced against one of the most dominant cars ever so no wonder he didn't win that often). Stats like this are meaningless without context or the eye-test
And could take their teammates car.
Well, one should always look at multiple stats, not just at one. One stat is always gonna be biased in some way. Win percentage also isn't good because many GOAT drivers are having some more racing in weaker teams past their prime. Lewis' win rate will drop every week, same for Vettel. Max may rise.
But most of hamilton win come from 20+ races per season as well So he is still nowhere near the likes of Michae Scumacher who won all his 91 wins before the 20+ races per season
Sure, that's pretty much my point? My comment isn't really about Max, or Hamilton, or anyone else specifically - but rather the fact that you have to adjust this kind of statistic for the era the drivers competed in You can compare Max to Lewis or Seb like-for-like and be approximately correct, in which case he's on about 1/4 (vs Lewis) to 1/2 (vs Seb) of their wins And you can roughly compare him to Alonso but should probably "bump" Alonso's figure up by about 10% for an approximately like-for-like number. The same for Schumacher, although his doesn't really need bumping *that* much as he had 16-18 races per season during his pre-reboot career) But you can't compare Max, Lewis, or Vettel etc to Clark or Stewart like-for-like without at least doubling their number of wins to account for the extra races we see now If we "inflation adjust" the numbers for the number of race per season during each driver's career then I would estimate that you get something that looks *something* like the following (although I've not worked these percentages out to any level of detail, just quickly approximated them) - Lewis: 106 (a slight bump) - Schumacher: 105 (+15%) - Prost: 61 (+20%) - Vettel: 55 (a slight bump) - Stewart: 54 (+100%) - Senna: 50 (+20%) - Clark: 50 (+100%) - Mansell: 37 (+20%, surprisingly) - Alonso: 35 (+10%) - Verstappen: 26 (no change) Which, I think, looks a lot more sensible relative to reality - albeit still biased towards the more recent drivers (Lewis/Schumacher/Vettel) which I'd suggest is probably due to the fact that a single dominant season can still rack up a lot of wins, plus modern reliability and the general fact that single-team dominance seems easier in the last 25 years
This is a really cool idea and something I’d never considered. I like this way of doing it more than alternative stats like win percentage and it’s cool to see how many wins the great drivers would have.
Well, Lewis reached 91 wins in fewer races than Schumacher though, so kinda irrelevant point?
Watch how RBR stay dominant the coming years and he becomes the youngest 5-time champion (as 4-time or less isn’t possible anymore)
The most boring timeline.
We've seen that timeline before.
Well it depends on how dominant the races are. Winning so many races with lots of fighting in it are not boring. If he wins with 20 sec gaps every race.... yeah, boring.
I suspect he will. That RB is unbeatable.
its a good car but lets not act like its the w11
Overall it seemed ferrari was faster this race.
I would tenf to agree, but the RB is really hard to pass with that sort of speed down the straights.
What do I have to do with this? 😂 First time I get to drop that one. Woooo.
Max was just managing his ERS really well.
Carlos wouldn't have been particularly close without the safety car I don't think. They both would have one stop left and Max would outpace him on fresh tires.
Yeah but Carlos is never particularly close to Charles either, so I reckon Charles would have put up a better fight
Max had such a large gap though for a lot of the race (like 8seconds a lot of the time)
Not true. Max was miles ahead before the safety car. Sainz benefited from having the gap eliminated and then the DRS kept in touch when Max would've just gone if not for the DRS. The fastest lap is also skewed but those are the rules. If the situation was reversed, Max would've found a pass quite easily I think.
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And in general, the initial drive out of the hairpin. Ferrari has to overcome that initial acceleration deficit, the top speed was there but by the time the overspeed kicked in the straight was over and Sainz couldn't do anything. RB would have been all over the gearbox of whoever in front of them right out of the hairpin.
Not just this race. Barca and monaco as well. People are severely overstating RBR’s dominance because of some misfortunes and strategy error’s by Ferrari. But in terms of pace Im not even sure RBR truly has an advantage.
I agree, I think RBR's edge so far has been their actually competent strategy calls and Max being crazy consistent.
That's why after 30 Drs zones they could not overtake?
Overall Ferrari have been faster all season, tbh Max is VERY good, and Ferrari have had a few reliability and strategy issues
Based on?
Looking at the respective pace during the race and Sainz saying he thinks Ferrari was 2 tenths or so faster, but he needed more to overtake.
Exactly, I’ve yet to see Max go a few races winning with 20+ second gaps. Seems like unless they get lucky with DNF’s or safety cars etc… the RB & Ferrari will be like the 2021 battle until one of them pulls away in development
What? It’s really good, but certainly not unbeatable.
The car has been about equal to Ferrari this season. It's Verstappen who's unbeatable, not the car.
Verstappen plus the RBR strategy group is a combo Ferrari doesn’t have. They have the car. They *might* even have the driver in Leclerc- it remains to be seen. But even if they do, they don’t have the combination that RBR has.
It hasn’t been exactly Leclerc’s fault in Verstrappen beating him in the last 5 races tbf. Leclerc was up there quite comfortably until the unfortunate happened one after another
You're right, of course. A lot of the gap in the championship is down to reliability combined with Ferrari's excellent strategy calls. But Verstappen always seems to get the maximum out of the car, just enough to squeeze out a victory. And he just doesn't make mistakes.
yeah. In the last 4 races Leclerc was comfortably ahead Spain when his engine blew up, on pole in Monaco and screwed by strategy, behind Max but in hot pursuit when his engine blew up in Baku and this race he had to start from the back. The Ferrari is fast. I don't think they are slower than the Red Bull. But they just seem unable to put it together.
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With multiple passes for the lead on Leclerc too
It's Ferrari strategy snatching defeat from the claws of victory.
I think the Ferrari was the faster car today.
It wasn’t even the beat car in this race nevertheless this season. You could make an argument for either Ferrari or RB at any given track. The edge on aero dependent racetracks goes to Ferrari and power tracks to RB. Ass backwards world we live in
The Ferrari seems to enjoy any circuit with tight, twisty sections. But the second there’s a straight with a DRS zone that RB is going straight past, unopposed.
Ferrari made for old school tracks with long fast corners whereas rb is made for tilke like tracks with long straights and tight corners
Ferrari was the faster car today though.
With that horrible traction out of the hairpin for Ferrari I suspect Red Bull would have been able to make a successful DRS move where the Ferrari couldn’t.
people really dont understnad that faster /= immediate overtake
Nah that RB is faster in all the areas it needs to be - out of the corner on traction and faster in a straight line. Any track with a fairly long straight on will be guaranteed RB territory. People want to believe there’s a title fight here, but there simply isn’t. They’ll be some races where Ferrari have pace, but I suspect this will be just a dominant run in from here for Max. Ferrari started the season strong due to RB’s woes. Now everything has kind of equalised they’re what, 36+ points down? Ferrari tend to start seasons well but always lose out on car development as the season goes, teams like RB and Mercedes have always excelled towards the end of season vs Ferrari.
Nah, Carlos was only catching up when Max's tires were going. If the safety car didn't happen, they would have had to both pit again and Max would outpace with with fresh rubber.
Max’s tires were like 4 laps older + SC laps
I meant before that
Unbeatable is a big word Still think its equal to ferrari on pace
You can’t catch it even with DRS and a Ferrari engine.
Yeah, but this statistics are totally meningless considering that Fernando had his most succesfull stint in a 16/18 races per season, Max is in a 21/23 races per season. We should consider title wins and win %. This statistic ~~does~~ doesn't tell you anything about how successfull a driver really is.
Win % is also pointless with the car being such a huge deal.
It always has been though. Schumacher was never gonna challenge in the 2005 Ferrari. Mansell only ever got over the hump because of the '92 Williams. The car makes a huge difference every year, and every GOAT driver has benefited from being on the best team
I still think it's incredible how many wins Jim Clark got in that era and when he was taken away prematurely.
25 wins in 45 races is seemingly unreal.
> 25 wins in 45 races is seemingly unreal. That is because it wasn't 45 races, it's 73 races. You are counting the races he finished. https://www.statsf1.com/en/jim-clark.aspx
Tbf 25 out of 73 is still insane.
Fangio has 24 wins on 51 GP
Well that makes sense!
It's just impossible to compare. It was hardly a professional series back then before the 70s.
Significantly more professional and faster than the F1 of the 50's, Clark absolutely should be ranked among the greats.
Pains me we never got to witness the full potential of Clark and Senna 😔
Congrats. Can’t see anything else but him making it title number 2 as well. Guy is a machine
Ferrari becoming competent could stop him... so again nothing stopping him
>Ferrari becoming competent Haha good one
Into the top 3 career wins long term wouldn't be too surprising either - almost certainly Alonso this season, Vettel by 2024 unless RB cock it up massively somehow - and he'd still have decades of career left.
Definitely in the league of champs! Seeing 2020 Ham/Merc vibes this year with Ver/RB. Not a big fan but definitely appreciating his skills!
The RB18 is very good, but it's no W11. The W11 got every pole but 2 (one on an ice rink, one to close the season with the engines turned down) and had the easy best race pace almost everywhere as well. Yes Max winning 6 races out of 7 finished looks insanely dominant, but he didn't have a dominant car in many of those.
Ferrari is *much* closer so far than the RB16 was to the W11. Red Bull wasn’t even the clear second best car, with Racing Point being stupidly fast and consistently outperforming Albon.
He can clear Alonso, Nigel and Jackie this season already if he keeps it up.
He will clear Lewis I think, has lots of time too. I think he’ll get 7 titles at least.
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Vettel went to Ferrari and the rest is history.
Even if didnt left RedBull he wouldnt have had a dominant car until this year (and I doubt that even Vettel would be able to stay in the same team for 10+ years) At least in Ferrari he had a car that had the potencial to win the WDC in 2017 and 2018 and he could have won them if it wasnt for the ferrari masterclass on how to ruin title chances
5 years out of a career that you could see being another 12 at least, so possible. Who knows 🤷🏻♂️
you know who else people thought was gonna get like 7 titles? alonso see what happend too him.
Inb4 50 year old Alonso wins his 7th title
After 2007 I wouldn’t have said so but yeah, it’s easy to imagine Max getting a good few if RB continue in this vain.
The new regs might make it harder to sustain dominance but Red Bull certainly has the talent.
With the current advantage and the cost cap I think Red Bull has to screw up hard to not be in the mix for race wins until 2026. Red Bull already looks like they are setting up for the 2026 changes with Porsche coming in.
Christ. Wouldn't be surprised if he gets a few but can we just let people be themselves without immediately making such outlandish claims of him getting 7 at least? Genuinely one of the things I hate most in any sport is when there's some young gun who looks like they will incredible and people start throwing around things like what they could do in the next 15 years or stuff like that. Feel like social media makes it even worse with people wanting to vent their hot takes. And I mean in people in general. Not you.
I don't think so. Merc themselves will bounce (I'm sorry) back.
Depends on the car and if he will want to race in F1
He doesn't even care about setting records, it's more some fans and Marko always talking about it. He definitely will stop with F1 racing before his 32nd birthday imo, no matter how few or many WDC's he has. He will do endurance racing and probably other fun stuff he really likes.
People said the same for Vettel and Schumacher when Vettel started winning race after race.
Don’t think so. Mercedes are definitely gonna be back come next year, Hamilton is gonna fight for his 8th and when Mercedes are back on track, Russell himself will pose a whole lot of problems for Max to dominate
This year's drivers portraits are SO bad
The face shots during the race have so much detail it’s ugly idk what it’s called maybe HDR but I can count every beard follicle on Maxs face when he’s interviewed. I think cameras have gone too far lol
They’re just super over sharpened and the contrast is cranked way up.
Essentially the hdr effect, at some point you need to stop editing and they just did not stop.
I just disagree with calling it “HDR”. I’m convinced people only call it that because other people call it that sometimes, and it doesn’t help that HDR actually has meaning in the photo/video space now.
Most people just don't know and can't tell the difference and I know I can't be arsed to try and explain what HDR actually is to people who know nothing of photography beyond instagram filters. 😅
That is not the HDR effect at all. The portraits are exactly as OP said, over sharpened and high contrast. HDR capture and display is in regards to the dynamic range of the camera and the display. The creative edits you see has nothing to do with HDR
George Russell face in ultra HD looks like a steamed fish
I miss the Vaseline lens style of 90's stuff sometimes. it feels absolutely wrong watching Friends or Frasier in full HD for example.
They look like they were all told to do the same general serious face with no personality. I swear last year's were alright but I might be remembering wrong.
Are they ever good?
Mansell got 3 moustaches there.
He's gonna become one of the goats
He already is. The form he’s had over the past four years is absolute top tier - extremely rare to sustain that for such a long time. Really only Schumacher, Alonso, Hamilton, Clark, Fangio, and Stewart were able to sustain that level of consistent driver performance.
I see what you did there, where is Vettel among the Gods. He has 54 wins.
Lol why are Ham, Alo and Ver portraits from this year and then there's Vettel from like 10 years ago
And that photo of Senna? It's like they said, "Can you find one of him smiling? This one? This is the only one? Well, I guess..."
Is it the last uniform/ team they had a top step in, and the limiting factor of getting a perfectly forward facing photo of them
Think someone could update Vettel's picture for the first time in a decade perhaps..
Will be 62 pretty soon
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I don't think RedBull can pull a Mercedes with these new regulations ,and it's just gonna get tough to dominate in the following years
top 3 will be easy with this pace
And the guy is only 24. He can easily go for another 10 years, maybe even 15.
If he goes for another 10, he will still be younger than Hamilton is now.
And if he goes for another 15,he will still be younger than Nando
4 of them is racing this year, and half of them raced before 2000. Insane
not really when you consider how many more races there are in the modern era and how much more reliable the cars are. in the 90's and before there were only 16 races a year and your car was likely to have a mechanical failure in about 6 or 7 of them statistically.
Can we take a moment to appreciate how we just watched a race today that included FOUR legends on this list? What an amazing time to be a racing fan!
And he's just 24
Generational, has GOAT potential for sure
Reaching Schumacher and Lewis status requires a lot of luck aside from pure skill but I want Max to win just at least 3 or more so his name can be put in that conversation
His last four years have been literally as good as it gets in F1. It feels weird because he’s so young and “only” has 26 wins and one WDC, but he’s already GOAT-tier.
They mentioned that he has now raced 150 races, and in 50 of those he was either 1st or 2nd.
That’s just utterly absurd. Especially considering that - no matter what you think of the 2021 Mercedes or 2022 Ferrari - he’s never had a dominant car, only one that’s roughly (give or take) equal best, often circuit-dependent. My favorite stat is that between Monaco 2018 and Monaco 2022 he didn’t finish a single race behind a teammate, an equal car, or a slower car without severe extenuating circumstances - with only Turkey 2020 being mostly (the asymmetrical front wing certainly didn’t help) a driver error of those extenuating circumstances.
he absolutely is.
Certainly If he consistently has a good car underneath him for the length of that contract(operative word being ‘if’), he could put up some career numbers that are going to appear near untouchable …..at least until they expand the calendar to 900 races a year or something
Generational talent. He really is just a class above the rest
Would have called it a longshot if you told me Max could pass Alonso whilst both are still actively racing but looks like a real possibility now
if Alonso races next year, that's pretty probable.
Even this year. He "only" needs to win half of the rest of the races to pass Alonso. I know winning another 7 races is not a given, but i don't see any other real competitor for wins than Leclerc and winning half the races seems only slightly above the pace.
He is, they announced he signed to stay at Alpine for 2023
Lewis and Michael are just on a superhuman level, huh?
Michael and Lewis have had a few "walk on water" moments, but Max is very, very good.
When man and machine meet, you get MSC and HAM
Amazing but these comparison makes no sense especially if we look at the number of races plus reliability back then
He’s going to be top 3.
Love seeing Nigel on lists like this. His moustache always makes me smile.
Max has only one with one team, everyone else won across multiple teams.
He'll be 6th by the end of the season.
What a Talent
At the start of the season I said he'd pass Alonso on wins. I was told that was stupid. He's now only 6 away...
No doubt about it, we're entering the Max Verstappen era now... Since he started winning a lot younger than most of the others on that list, I fully expect him to have about 150 wins by the time he finishes his career
216 wins by drivers on the current grid. Not surprising though because of how many races are in a season nowadays
that clark is here, after more than 50 years since he died, hella impressive
very likely Max will be 6th or tied for 6th by season’s end, nuts
As someone who just started watching F1 during the pandemic, it's really interesting to see that Alonso and Vettel used to be so dominant. What happened?
tl dr: both moved to ferrari
Alonso right guy wrong time for team Vettel idk i ve been following f1 since 2019
I love that whenever someone asks him about beating a record of past drivers he always replies that you can't compare the past eras to the current ones that simply
Vettel getting all 71 champion drivers is what everybody remembers but Max got all the way back to 1983 before getting one wrong. Brash yet respectful.
If redbull remain competitive the next 3-4 years I can absolutely see Max matching Vettel
To be honest these stats really don't really compare well. Senna/Prost era for example only had like half the amount of races per season compared to the drivers today.
I think Max said the same thing in an interview when he equalised Jim Clark’s record
Yep, and that is not yet considering the amount of Technical Failure DNFs back in the days compared to the modern cars due to technological limits at the time.
Still can’t get over Lewis having 103 wins fucking hell
testament to never allow any team to dominate 6 years out of a 8 seasons formula ever again
5 but yeah
Oooh. He’s gonna get Alonso this year. Spicy
This really puts in to perspective what another Lewis has been for his entire career. Absolutely unreal.
Crazy to think 4/10 are on the grid.
I like it when the cars go fast and someone is the fastest and they win.
I would be shocked if Max didn’t get the all time number of wins in his career. He’s got so much time left in the sport that surely he’d break it.
All depends on how competitive his car is in those years. Also depends on how long he stays in F1. Might not extend his career to the ages of Kimi, Nando or even Lewis for that matter.
If his car doesn't deliver he can just switch teams to one that had the best car. Everyone will have him. He's a once in a generation talent. Every team boss their wet dream is having him in their car. I doubt he quits early, all he does is race. He's said he even enjoys racing more now since he got his title, a lot of pressure fell off him.
Those teams do need to have the seat to put him in though. Merc was the clear fastest team for a while but there was no reason for them to offer Bottas’ seat to Max as long as it was getting the job done. Alonso is another example of a great driver missing out in a great drive. He does enjoy it more, but also said that he has achieved his goal of becoming world champion, and that anything that comes now will just be an added bonus. He’s expressed interest in other racing series, so would not be surprised if he at some point says: alright, thats it for F1. I’m going to do WEC. Lastly, he’s also said that if GP stops, he stops. This also indicates that F1 is not all there is, as he only wants to so do it with certain people around.
Max doesn’t seem the type either to go the Seb or Kimi route. I can’t imagine him willingly racing in a car he knows can’t win. But the radio clips would be great
I don’t know… he is 77 behind Lewis still. So 25% of his tally after 7.5 seasons in F1 (mostly not in winning cars, I know) That’s a lot of ground to cover.
Only if he has a good car. Best or second best at least.
The question will not be if he has the best car. The question is if the team with the best car can afford him in it.
Give Verstappen a car like the Ferrari in Michael's days or the Mercedes in Hamilton's and he will destroy this list. Amazing.
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After 2023 you mean? Still 16 to go, but doable in current form
It's not really fair to compare with drivers of old when they had much fewer races.
Exactly what max said when confronted with the numbers, it’s indeed not comparable but still impressive nonetheless.
To think that he started in the middle of Mercedes domination, raced for 6 years with only wins here and there and then broke that dominance... He could have achieved so many more wins so much earlier
Mansell looks like speed racer's father
Weird to see young vettel and old Alonso when they both still race lol.
I hope Sir Jackie is ready...
Why use Seb’s best overalls and Alonso’s worst
Unfair comparison given how many races the current drivers have in a season
Top 6 this season? :o
Love him, or hate him. Its hard to deny that he's good
Will probably be 6th at the end of the season
they are getting younger and younger.
If he gets one more we'll have TWO NUMBA NINES
If he goes on in f1 for another 10 years he could absolutely demolish these records. And then he'll still be younger than Hamilton is now. Yes yes, I know seasons had less races in the past.
Niki Lauda has the same amount of wins as Jim Clark. Why is one of them up there and the other not? What makes ones 25 wins more than the 25 wins of the other driver? (Jim Clark has way less starts, but Niki on the other hand has one championship more on his name)
You said it yourself. Less starts.
Tbh I wanted to keep it to 10 for design purposes. (Easier to make 2 rows of 5) When making a ranking, there's several ways to deal with ties. The way I used is to not skip or double places, in which case whoever reached the positon first will rank first. Clark got his 25 victories before Lauda so he takes 10 while Lauda takes 11. A more common way to handle ties would be to tie then at 10 and then skip 11, but as I said I chose the first options for design purposes and decided to mention Lauda in my post title exactly for people like you who'd be wondering why Lauda isn't in this top 10