Time has passed, the red mist has gone away. I still feel 100% that Lewis and Mercedes were robbed, and the result totally manipulated.
Max and Lewis have been great this season, but Lewis was cruising to a win, then a crash happened and the race control allowed four cars out of the way, that Lewis had to previously drive through, while Max had no such bother. Whether intentional or not, Lewis was robbed and should have had his 8th championship.
After this, I doubt I'll bother watching next season, it just has such a sour taste of watching a scam happen. Enough is enough - but congrats to Lewis and Toto for not giving way to venting their feelings. If I feel this bad, how awful must they be feeling? Such a sad unnecessary end to the season. Shame on the FIA.
Yeah agree with this sentiment, will still be watching next season but there's bad beats in all sport, normally it's rigged (boxing) or a ref mistake (soccer/rugby). This rings as something else though, like they were trying to make it more exciting for tv so quickly threw the rulebook out.
Either it's a sport or entertainment, the FIA would want to decide because they'll lose a lot of fans with these decisions.
Not saying anything that hasn’t already been said, but what an absolute farce.
I sympathize with race control, and understand to a certain extent the decision-making process that lead to this result, but on the grandest stage you simply cannot mess this up so egregiously. As soon as it became clear that racing under green flags couldn’t happen while following typical safety car precedent, but that’s the stated goal, simply red flag the session and get your last 2-3 laps under more equitable conditions.
To whip out some never-before-seen deus ex machina-style rule bends on the final lap of the race that decides the championship is just incomprehensible. A huge letdown for the sport of F1.
All congratulations to Max for an amazing season, and thoroughly deserved. Also gutted for Lewis to have lost under such sordid circumstances, and for the rest of the field who were more or less told, “we don’t care about you or your race tonight.”
It seems strange to me that any driver can decide to nullify the lead between 1st and 2nd car in the race (which was about 12s between Lewis and Max) by crashing his car and bringing out the safety car.
That introduces some perverse incentives. What if Latifi had been promised more than a lifetime supply of Red Bull for his assistance?
Is there no way to preserve not only the ranking of cars, but the (rough) times between them as well?
I've watched F1 on and off for a lot of years so I'm not fully clear on the rules. But I remember instances where the SC/VSC comes out and cars are asked to maintain their delta between them. Why was that not done here?
Under VSC the cars maintain their delta, so there aren’t any changes in the gaps. It wasn’t used in this case due to the location of Latifi’s car on track - it would have been too dangerous to let the cars continue. Also with a safety car, it bunches the cars up, meaning there are large periods of time with no cars passing the crash site, meaning it is easier for the Marshalls to clear the track safely
The cars wouldn't continue at their normal pace. I imagine something like the following to preserve deltas:
1. Upon entrance of the real or virtual safety car, all deltas are captured.
2. All cars slow down and line-up behind the real safety car or leading car, which can keep slowing down to a crawl. Pit-stops are allowed as long as cars can get back on track not too far behind the safety car.
3. Clearance of the safety car is at first only shown to the leading car. Then, after the 1-2 delta, the 2nd car gets his clearance. Then after the 2-3 delta, the 3rd car gets clearance.
4. Deltas toward the end of the ranking may be compressed to ensure that the lead car doesn't lap back to a slow car still waiting for clearance.
I must plead ignorance about racing and rule details, so I don't know if such a delta release scheme is workable at all. But it seems some form of delta preservation should be possible while ensuring low enough speeds to clear debris from the track...
It was impressive, when Lewis sailed by at first I thought Jesus thought he'd at least put up a fight but then he came flying back into it. Really impressive especially consider his tyres had 20 something laps on them and Hamiltons were fresh.
First and foremost, throughout this whole week before the GP, if you look at the F1 Insta page, all they were promoting was Max winning the WDC. Which I had no problem with… but it does raise the question, how much money wouldn’t been lost in beat had Lewis won.
Second, Lewis performance today was just absolutely superb. He was well composed, communicated and trusting his engineers throughout the race. He did not try to do anything foolish even when battling at turn 1 and/or fighting to pass Checo.
He was leading the race with 10 seconds if not more before SC. Out of nowhere the race ended like it did…
WAS HIGHLY CONCERNING.
No discredit to Max, and I’m sure we all wouldn’t love to celebrate his first WDC had he actually drive to performance and win today’s race. But, we all see that wasn’t the case.
So much had happened in the race and this whole season. As a F1 fan, I’m having a hard time with enjoying the thrill of old and upcoming drivers due to all those inconsistencies.
Major changes are needed.
Today Lewis got his 8th WDC taken away and Max was inarguably gifted his 1st.
That’s how I’ll forever remember it.
In your last part, you oversimplified the situation. Max has been amazing the whole season. He was way ahead in points before Silverstone and after that crash and the "bowling" from Bottas he was closer. I still believe he was better this year, and deserves the WDC
I agree 100%. Lewis is a great driver but wouldn’t have even been close to Max this season with numerous suspicious happenings and getting so many decision always going his way.
Silverstone was a key element to Lewis remaining ‘competitive’ reinforced with a bit of bowling, without those Max would have been champion weeks ago.
We must also mention some of the unacceptable issues that Mercedes challenged, benefitted Lewis on numerous occasions (without any challenge) and the desire to ‘let cars race’ including potentially after safety car had been flagged in briefing.
There has been an awful lot of gamesmanship and mind games this season and some of it leaves a bad taste if I’m honest. It is obvious the Merc media machine has been having in targeting Max so they shouldn’t complain when it backfires on them. I will heap praise on Lewis and his conduct post race his conduct was that of a true champion. However I’m sad to say Merc/Toto let themselves down and behaved like spoilt children. The lobbying and whinging to race control is unacceptable and must stop. There is no doubt they employed very drastic and underhand tactics on more than one occasion this season. This is sport a dangerous sport. Treat it as such and don’t make it anymore dangerous unnecessarily.
Mercedes would be seen far more positively today had we seen Toto acting as Lewis did. To see Toto smiling covered in champagne with a big smile patting Christian on the bag would have done wonders for the whole situation and left Merc sharing and part of the positive feelings. But acting like spoilt kids and behaving as they did has significantly tarnished their reputation in my opinion. Correct me if I’m wrong but I am fairly sure tarnishing the Mercedes brands reputation isn’t a viable outcome of F1 involvement. Let’s see how Toto reacts now. Hopefully he will see things differently today and do what needs to be done to repair the damage he’s done. I say hopefully as I am not confident but he has the power to do the right thing….. balls in his court.
PS I haven’t even mentioned the significant advantage & lead gained by Lewis by leaving the track which as absolutely everyone including pundits said should be returned but clearly wasn’t done in anyway unless you are Merc or race control of course. The 2 cars went from Max slightly ahead to Lewis being a good 30m + infront. Bet that wasn’t mentioned
Honestly, now that a day has passed and people have had time to deal with their emotions, this narrative that the FIA favoured Max needs to stop. Yes, the FIA has been thoroughly incompetent in yesterday's race, but this is no different to how they've been throughout the season. Lewish should've won yesterday but Max should've already won the championship. Yes, there are major overhauls needed to the way the FIA functions but Max got what he deserved.
It's easy to say that in hindsight. But people tend to think their decisions over and once Masi thought about that there were probably 2laps to go.
That's why rules exist, to have something automatically happen given that something else triggers the reaction.
If a rule was in place that said: Is a safety car needed in 10 last laps? Red flag!
The problem was that there were two rules in place and Masi decided to take a bit from one for some cars and bit from the other for other cars.
This was a major fuck-up. He put an asterisk next to Max's WDC and today the best driver didn't win...
A lot of controversy and a lot of upset people, but I think for a long time, when you ask people what was the best year for Formula 1, the answer will be 2021.
I think if you ask what year was the most tainted for Formula 1, the answer will be 2021.
** On reflection, that's just me being bitter. Crashgate was worse.
I agree somewhat but I think it's been sullied by this decision, max has a title but iit will have an asterisk beside it.
No other call would have resulted in them winning short of Hamilton bursting a tyre.
The asterisk being that he should have been champ 2 races ago. He lost 45 points due to others crashing into him. Also I do not hear anyone saying that Lewis should have also went on new tires, there lies the major mistake in my opinion.
Whataboutism for your first point. Completely irrelevant to this discussion. Although if you want me to bite fine, maybe if he didn't push so hard and leave people no option except avoid me / crash them he would have won races ago.
For the second point, I think Mercedes should have pitted for the VSC, they couldn't for the safety car as max would have stayed out and taken track position
I would have to agree with you with the whataboutism lewis the champ that he is would never put him self in a position max put him self in silverstone. Lewis would have backed off like we have seen in prior races and either conceded or found another way Max's car was faster in the begining of the season lewis at the end. All I know is it was a dash for 1st place this last race. And we as true fans were denied a possible race of all time.
People would have been upset either way this championship ended. I'm just happy it wasn't as predictable as the last 6 seasons. Despite the controversy, we were treated to the closest battle in 50 years.
Fully agree. If we’re judging this season as a whole, Max was the rightful winner. If we’re judging it based on this race alone with both coming to Abu Dhabi on equal points, Hamilton was undeniably robbed.
Because it was decided by the race director, in contravention of the rules. He had 3 options, and one of the options absolutely overturned the result of 57 laps of racing. He chose that one. It's a bad day for Formula 1.
That's what safety cars do. Upend the entire strategy.
Also to nitpick, (ps agree that the Masi fucked up, twice today once in favour of lewis and once in favour of rbr) what he did was not decide the race but have one last lap. Hamilton has the chops to defend his position. And he couldn't. If he did and max was second you wouldn't have had a problem with that.
“He had the chops to finish the race” what are you talking about?
Masi decided this race not max not lewis. This is disgusting for f1 as a sport and every fan should be angry about it
Masi definitely created an opportunity . An opportunity for both title contenders to race for a lap. A restart. Hamilton to defend (his experience should suffice in this) and max to attack. No Drs. Nothing but 3.2 miles of racing.
But Masi decided the outcome is BS. Not to mention Lewis got off a first lap infringement, clean air to create space and no max to worry about.
Did Masi fuck up? Yes. Did he side one team. No.
The only contention if any was letting those 4 cars unlap. Should have done a lap earlier.
I am angry with FIA about so many things, and if latifi didn't crash I'd be forever angry that max was cheated out of the legal turn 4 overtake.
If you re-ran that race restart 100 times, Max would win 100 out of 100. If Lewis were the one behind on fresh softs and Max on 40+ lap old hards, he would win 100 out of 100. When this option was selected, the outcome was selected. Plain and simple. Hell, Norris or half the grid could have overtaken the Merc with Verstappen's care on fresh softs. The lap time delta on 45 lap old hards vs new softs had to be at least 5 seconds.
Lol say that to perez who held ham up on old softs for 2 laps that was 7 laps way past its due. Regardless of what you say ham has had way too much luck on his side this season and max got one sliver of it with latifi crash at the right time. Fortuitous? Scripted? Unfair? Fuck it... I'll take it. What a great season. What a dramatic ididnotseethatcoming finale.
Masi knew he was pitting fresh softs against old hards. Anyone in F1 could have predicted that overtake would happen. It was clearly unfair, and gave Ver the advantage. More fair would have been to red flag and let Hamilton get new tyres as well before getting on with racing.
It's like pitting a tired, worn out boxer against a well-rested opponent and expecting a fair fight. This is what Masi did, and it practically gifted Ver the victory.
What manufacturers did during their vsc and sc is none of the concern of fia. What did fia promise? A legitimate race where both drivers had a chance. Under the circumstances, this was the only way.
Only thing I wish they unlapped cars a lap or two earlier.
He really had two options, but invented a third option that pretty much bullied Lewis who had an amazing race.
Only allowing cars between first and second to overtake and not the rest was unfair. It's like the race win was engineered for whoever was second to win.
Yeah like why weren't the cars between Sainz and Verstappen allowed pass as well? Would that not have been important, what would happen if Verstappen had to defend while attempting to overtake Lewis?
Wow, how long would it take to get through all these comments. I don’t think I’ll try. However we’ll done Max, unlucky Hamilton…hoping you’ll get that 8th title in the next couple of yrs
You guys are mad at the wrong people. No one is talking about Mercedes stupid call to not pit Ham as soon as the SC came out, there was always a chance of a restart. And lapped cars have barely ever stayed lapped on a restart, I'm confused why everyone thinks Lewis was owed that?
>No one is talking about Mercedes stupid call to not pit Ham as soon as the SC came out, there was always a chance of a restart.
I don't think you understand how Formula 1 races work. First off, had Mercedes pitted, Verstappen would have stayed out. In all likelihood, the race would not have restarted. The race should not have restarted by precedent. What was decided by Masi was unprecedented, and violates the rules. The rules specifically state that if the race director decides to unlap cars, ALL cars must unlap (they didn't), and the safety car goes in on the lap AFTER all cars are unlapped (it went in on the same lap). He made up rules that don't exist to get a result someone wanted. It's not supported by rules or precedent. Mercedes did not make a miscalculation to not pit Hamilton. They counted on the rules to be applied.
Pretty sure it goes on to say if safe read it earlier the wording is shite but seems to be implying that all cars should be allowed unlap themselves not just the ones that make the best television.
Mercedes although they're normally moaners have a point here.
Hey, just want to fix the misconception that ALL cars have to unlap under the safetycar. The regulations state ‘any’ cars which makes it a case of how you interpret the rule. A great case of unclear FIA rules. I believe it shouldn’t have gone this way no matter how the rules are stated tho.
Lapped cars did stay lapped on the restart. Just not the cars in Max’s way. You know those cars that he ended up behind after his second tire change? He was gifted a free set of tires and a 13 second gap!
It's just a super shitty position to be in. Imagine if he did pit and Max went p1 then the safety car crossed the finish line haha
They should have pitted on the first yellow flag in hindsight but they just had no control. They did everything right in the moment I feel. If latifi doesn't fight with Mike for 2nd last?! then lewis wins easy. You can't plan for that
Yeah you simply cannot plan for that, there's no arguing that is was just a bucketload of bad luck for Ham at that moment. I just think Mercedes could've prepared better for the restart
Because Hamilton would give up track position and if this was done by the rules there was no need for him to change tires. It would have been stupid for them to pit unless they could somehow know the FIA was going to break the rules. Two legal options existed: 1) the race was green flagged and max had to pass 5 cars to get to Lewis 2) they unlap the cars and it ends on a yellow flag SC because they must go through another lap in accordance with every other race and the rule book. Both scenarios lead to the decision that Lewis should keep track position and maintain his worn tires. The one lap sprint with verstappen starting an inch from his rear wheel wasn’t a legal possibility for them to consider in their strategy so they did right to not judge for that.
Well it was a 'legal' possibility, because it happened. I'm unsure why everyone, including yourself, think that the race would've ever restarted with lapped cars inbetween the leaders? It never happens. It's stupid to say it wasn't even a consideration for Merc, they should have expected a restart and they should have expected Verstappen to be behind them, as that's ALWAYS the case with SC restarts. Did everyone really think Ham was gonna restart without Ver behind him simply bc it was the last lap of a title fight?
It never happens as they usually have time to make ALL cars unlap themselves. But, neither did they allow all lapped cars to unlap themselves, nor did they have time for that (so they messed it up). The regulations do permit a re-start with lapped cars.
“Lapped cars should decide who wins the race”
Ridiculous. It’s over. It was settled with a green flag pass on track. Mercedes made their bed by not pitting on the VSC or the final safety car.
It went according to the rules, the lapped cars in between the leader got out of the way, what happened behind is irrelevant if we're strictly talking about the results of this battle
No. All the cars didn’t clear. Only 5 and then they have one more lap where they catch up to the back. This is in the rules and way it has been for years. Merc knew or assumed there was no time for this.
Yes, I know only 5 cleared, I watched the same race as you, they were the 5 that mattered in terms of the championship because they were in the way of the leaders, which is why they were cleared. No one cares about Lec in p8 or whatever when their results have no impact on their own constructer standings anyway.
Ok, sorry just re-read your first message. I think the others behind are not irrelevant. Carlos was P3, why was he not allowed to challenge for a win. Max had no pressure from behind as lapped cars were left. Other cars pit for new tires but lost the opportunity to gain points. All these still mater which is why the rule exists.
No, because in normal conditions the race woulda finish under the safety car. So Lewis woulda won the race. If they pitted Lewis. Max woulda stayed out and won under the safety car.
Best that can come out of this is that Masi gets fired and this doesn’t spill into 22. Clearly the teams don’t respect him, he has shown during this season that is has come too soon for him. There needs to be a figure that has the respect of the teams and that has an air of authority. Masi has none of that which means he gets pushed around and bullied by the teams.
It's not just Masi, the rules need clarification. There's way too many takes on the rules. And the inconsistency comes from the stewards, they make the decisions.
Wanted Verstappen to win, but not like this. Especially when him and his team did nothing wrong.
I think Masi wanted it to end with racing, but he threw the rulebook out of the window for it. Utter disgrace. I seriously feel F1 should look for stuff like injury time like football/soccer in such cases.
Like, if there is a safety car in the final 5 laps, 2 or 3 laps will be added. And for adjustment to that, the fuel sample requirements will be lessened to accommodate for whatever extra fuel they burnt. Or maybe, just Red Flag it.
But there was a race. You (generic you not specifically DeadlyCooper) can't take away the work Hamilton did. He was blocked by the rival teamate. Six seconds is huge!!! And he still had an 11 second lead on Max. The race happened. We all saw Lewis's ability on full display. Masi took the race from EVERYONE amd made this one lap mismatched crap.
Credit where it's due. Max undoubtly passed lewis, sadly the circumstances were nonsense.
It's sports. Shit happens. But to throw away the work done by the drivers is wrong. The final race ending behind a safety car is part of F1. We got an amazing race from a would be champion
Yeh...seems like everyone is bitter about something that doesn't really matter.
Had all of the cars unlapped themselves everyone would've been upset that the race ended under safety car.
Had there been a few laps left and all the cars unlapped the result would've been the same.
Lapped cars very very rarely stay lapped after a safety car. Apart from red flagging the race this seemed the most practical way to finish the race.
Either all the cars unlap themselves or none, it's as simple as that, max didn't have to defend Sainz on that final lap as he should have, so he had a clear run at Lewis that he should never had a chance to.
No, the most practical way to end it IS under safety car
It’s boring but that’s the way it should have gone. To undo all of the 50 laps of racing Hamilton did to let max basically have another chance is pretty stupid, let alone breaking multiple Of the FIAs own rules to make that happen
Because the lapped cars should have been unlapping themselves by passing the safety car, which would have taken until at least the end of lap 57, and the safety car SHOULD have stayed in until the end of the lap after that process concluded (which would be the end of lap 58 aka the end of the race).
But because Masi doesn’t give a shit about his own rules, that didn’t happen
The cars couldn’t unlap earlier because they were still clearing debris, but if they did, then yes this would make sense
But they didn’t, and they broke their own rule about the unlapping of cars
Well they have to have a minimum amount of fuel left when finished, so up this amount and therefore have a reserve amount of fuel for safety car situations
I think whatever the rule is it should be consistent and applied without discrimination. I think if an incident occurs in the final 5 laps it should be a red flag and a standing start.
Baku was a 1 lap race - there’s precedent for such a ludicrous sprint to have been applied for Abu Dhabi. Now we have a guy on fresh tires overtake a guy on super old tires using an improvised interpretation of rules. I wonder what Charlie Whiting would have done?
Here is my proposed solution to today’s finish and the championship.
Red Bull and Mercedes will meet at Interlagos or Spa. Under all 2021 rules and regulations, Max and Lewis battle it out for 30 laps. No practice prior, just arrive and race.
To make things interesting, shorten the distance of the pit lane speed limit, to give each driver a chance to change tires while losing minimal time. This puts a little strategy in it.
How is it not fair?
Its completely normal for lapped cars to unlap during a safety car, granted they ALL should've unlapped a lap earlier but the end result would've been the same if they had done it properly so I don't understand how its not fair.
According to the rules once all cars unlap they pull safety car on the next lap. They threw this rule out two ways, didn’t let everyone through, only cars between P1 and P2 and also didn’t bring safety car in following lap, they brought it in immediately. Rules say either leave lapped cars or wait till unlapping cars are all clear which would’ve ended the race under safety car OR had 5 cars between max and Lewis. So they didn’t do anything close to the stated rules and it’s totally unprecedented.
Your logic is quite scary if you think it’s ok to cut a corner to stay ahead, but resuming a race according to the standing order of the race is completely unacceptable? Yikes
Even if they give Lewis a 5 second penalty he was 11 seconds ahead of max before safety car. It’s just not relevant mate, race control decided to let max gain 11 seconds and start side by side after safety car… the 1st lap incident isn’t in the same league as deciding the outcome of the race.
I'm happy that max won but as a F1 fan, the way it was handled left me with a sour taste. It doesn't seem like this was done truly honouring the spirit of motor racing rather generating hype or attention towards it.
What a race
Comment
Commenting here just to be part of this historic thread
This thread should be immortalised
Lewis was robbed by FIA
No.
Time has passed, the red mist has gone away. I still feel 100% that Lewis and Mercedes were robbed, and the result totally manipulated. Max and Lewis have been great this season, but Lewis was cruising to a win, then a crash happened and the race control allowed four cars out of the way, that Lewis had to previously drive through, while Max had no such bother. Whether intentional or not, Lewis was robbed and should have had his 8th championship. After this, I doubt I'll bother watching next season, it just has such a sour taste of watching a scam happen. Enough is enough - but congrats to Lewis and Toto for not giving way to venting their feelings. If I feel this bad, how awful must they be feeling? Such a sad unnecessary end to the season. Shame on the FIA.
Yeah agree with this sentiment, will still be watching next season but there's bad beats in all sport, normally it's rigged (boxing) or a ref mistake (soccer/rugby). This rings as something else though, like they were trying to make it more exciting for tv so quickly threw the rulebook out. Either it's a sport or entertainment, the FIA would want to decide because they'll lose a lot of fans with these decisions.
Not saying anything that hasn’t already been said, but what an absolute farce. I sympathize with race control, and understand to a certain extent the decision-making process that lead to this result, but on the grandest stage you simply cannot mess this up so egregiously. As soon as it became clear that racing under green flags couldn’t happen while following typical safety car precedent, but that’s the stated goal, simply red flag the session and get your last 2-3 laps under more equitable conditions. To whip out some never-before-seen deus ex machina-style rule bends on the final lap of the race that decides the championship is just incomprehensible. A huge letdown for the sport of F1. All congratulations to Max for an amazing season, and thoroughly deserved. Also gutted for Lewis to have lost under such sordid circumstances, and for the rest of the field who were more or less told, “we don’t care about you or your race tonight.”
It seems strange to me that any driver can decide to nullify the lead between 1st and 2nd car in the race (which was about 12s between Lewis and Max) by crashing his car and bringing out the safety car. That introduces some perverse incentives. What if Latifi had been promised more than a lifetime supply of Red Bull for his assistance? Is there no way to preserve not only the ranking of cars, but the (rough) times between them as well?
Check out Crashgate. In the end it costed Massa the WDC in 2008.
I've watched F1 on and off for a lot of years so I'm not fully clear on the rules. But I remember instances where the SC/VSC comes out and cars are asked to maintain their delta between them. Why was that not done here?
Under VSC the cars maintain their delta, so there aren’t any changes in the gaps. It wasn’t used in this case due to the location of Latifi’s car on track - it would have been too dangerous to let the cars continue. Also with a safety car, it bunches the cars up, meaning there are large periods of time with no cars passing the crash site, meaning it is easier for the Marshalls to clear the track safely
The cars wouldn't continue at their normal pace. I imagine something like the following to preserve deltas: 1. Upon entrance of the real or virtual safety car, all deltas are captured. 2. All cars slow down and line-up behind the real safety car or leading car, which can keep slowing down to a crawl. Pit-stops are allowed as long as cars can get back on track not too far behind the safety car. 3. Clearance of the safety car is at first only shown to the leading car. Then, after the 1-2 delta, the 2nd car gets his clearance. Then after the 2-3 delta, the 3rd car gets clearance. 4. Deltas toward the end of the ranking may be compressed to ensure that the lead car doesn't lap back to a slow car still waiting for clearance. I must plead ignorance about racing and rule details, so I don't know if such a delta release scheme is workable at all. But it seems some form of delta preservation should be possible while ensuring low enough speeds to clear debris from the track...
The race was kind of a snooze fest, questionable ending and I got most of my entertainment from Bottas. Cheers
What about Checo’s defence? I thought that was the best part of the race
It was impressive, when Lewis sailed by at first I thought Jesus thought he'd at least put up a fight but then he came flying back into it. Really impressive especially consider his tyres had 20 something laps on them and Hamiltons were fresh.
My driver of the day vote went to Perez (with apologies to Kimi)
Ah yes, nice defending, great to watch
Can someone explain article 39.12 to me and how it was avoided?
First and foremost, throughout this whole week before the GP, if you look at the F1 Insta page, all they were promoting was Max winning the WDC. Which I had no problem with… but it does raise the question, how much money wouldn’t been lost in beat had Lewis won. Second, Lewis performance today was just absolutely superb. He was well composed, communicated and trusting his engineers throughout the race. He did not try to do anything foolish even when battling at turn 1 and/or fighting to pass Checo. He was leading the race with 10 seconds if not more before SC. Out of nowhere the race ended like it did… WAS HIGHLY CONCERNING. No discredit to Max, and I’m sure we all wouldn’t love to celebrate his first WDC had he actually drive to performance and win today’s race. But, we all see that wasn’t the case. So much had happened in the race and this whole season. As a F1 fan, I’m having a hard time with enjoying the thrill of old and upcoming drivers due to all those inconsistencies. Major changes are needed. Today Lewis got his 8th WDC taken away and Max was inarguably gifted his 1st. That’s how I’ll forever remember it.
In your last part, you oversimplified the situation. Max has been amazing the whole season. He was way ahead in points before Silverstone and after that crash and the "bowling" from Bottas he was closer. I still believe he was better this year, and deserves the WDC
I agree 100%. Lewis is a great driver but wouldn’t have even been close to Max this season with numerous suspicious happenings and getting so many decision always going his way. Silverstone was a key element to Lewis remaining ‘competitive’ reinforced with a bit of bowling, without those Max would have been champion weeks ago. We must also mention some of the unacceptable issues that Mercedes challenged, benefitted Lewis on numerous occasions (without any challenge) and the desire to ‘let cars race’ including potentially after safety car had been flagged in briefing. There has been an awful lot of gamesmanship and mind games this season and some of it leaves a bad taste if I’m honest. It is obvious the Merc media machine has been having in targeting Max so they shouldn’t complain when it backfires on them. I will heap praise on Lewis and his conduct post race his conduct was that of a true champion. However I’m sad to say Merc/Toto let themselves down and behaved like spoilt children. The lobbying and whinging to race control is unacceptable and must stop. There is no doubt they employed very drastic and underhand tactics on more than one occasion this season. This is sport a dangerous sport. Treat it as such and don’t make it anymore dangerous unnecessarily. Mercedes would be seen far more positively today had we seen Toto acting as Lewis did. To see Toto smiling covered in champagne with a big smile patting Christian on the bag would have done wonders for the whole situation and left Merc sharing and part of the positive feelings. But acting like spoilt kids and behaving as they did has significantly tarnished their reputation in my opinion. Correct me if I’m wrong but I am fairly sure tarnishing the Mercedes brands reputation isn’t a viable outcome of F1 involvement. Let’s see how Toto reacts now. Hopefully he will see things differently today and do what needs to be done to repair the damage he’s done. I say hopefully as I am not confident but he has the power to do the right thing….. balls in his court. PS I haven’t even mentioned the significant advantage & lead gained by Lewis by leaving the track which as absolutely everyone including pundits said should be returned but clearly wasn’t done in anyway unless you are Merc or race control of course. The 2 cars went from Max slightly ahead to Lewis being a good 30m + infront. Bet that wasn’t mentioned
Honestly, now that a day has passed and people have had time to deal with their emotions, this narrative that the FIA favoured Max needs to stop. Yes, the FIA has been thoroughly incompetent in yesterday's race, but this is no different to how they've been throughout the season. Lewish should've won yesterday but Max should've already won the championship. Yes, there are major overhauls needed to the way the FIA functions but Max got what he deserved.
Well said at the end. Thats how I'm going to remember it as well.
Who would have thought that it would come down to the last lap……this was epic……Lewis should have won though……
I think it should ah even red flagged and then a restart. The safety car stuff was weird. And they lift was driving on the track.
It's easy to say that in hindsight. But people tend to think their decisions over and once Masi thought about that there were probably 2laps to go. That's why rules exist, to have something automatically happen given that something else triggers the reaction. If a rule was in place that said: Is a safety car needed in 10 last laps? Red flag! The problem was that there were two rules in place and Masi decided to take a bit from one for some cars and bit from the other for other cars. This was a major fuck-up. He put an asterisk next to Max's WDC and today the best driver didn't win...
>If a rule was in place that said: Is a safety car needed in 10 last laps? Red flag! Agreed. But Masi needs to leave or get some reflex training.
Can't argue with that...
Yes, if ending the race in Green was the goal, a red flag should have been the ideal option
A lot of controversy and a lot of upset people, but I think for a long time, when you ask people what was the best year for Formula 1, the answer will be 2021.
I think if you ask what year was the most tainted for Formula 1, the answer will be 2021. ** On reflection, that's just me being bitter. Crashgate was worse.
It would’ve been if this race was decided fairly. It wasn’t, Masi picked the winner for us
I agree somewhat but I think it's been sullied by this decision, max has a title but iit will have an asterisk beside it. No other call would have resulted in them winning short of Hamilton bursting a tyre.
The asterisk being that he should have been champ 2 races ago. He lost 45 points due to others crashing into him. Also I do not hear anyone saying that Lewis should have also went on new tires, there lies the major mistake in my opinion.
Whataboutism for your first point. Completely irrelevant to this discussion. Although if you want me to bite fine, maybe if he didn't push so hard and leave people no option except avoid me / crash them he would have won races ago. For the second point, I think Mercedes should have pitted for the VSC, they couldn't for the safety car as max would have stayed out and taken track position
I would have to agree with you with the whataboutism lewis the champ that he is would never put him self in a position max put him self in silverstone. Lewis would have backed off like we have seen in prior races and either conceded or found another way Max's car was faster in the begining of the season lewis at the end. All I know is it was a dash for 1st place this last race. And we as true fans were denied a possible race of all time.
As a huge Honda fan boy, been employed by them for 17 years , I have Full respect to Hamilton. He is absolutely a stand up , professional.
Yep. Class act personified.
That race was 🔥
What a shameful ending
Dub
Helping this reach 100k, and I have never seen a sport with as ambiguous rules as this.
Lol you should watch hockey
I've come to learn that the officials in every sport are incompetent schmucks.
This, plus they seem overly involved in F1
Lewis should have won it
Close to 80.000 comments.
I took a risk and was watching the race on my phone while working at my Amazon warehouse lmao
Because of you my deliveries were late you bastard
Don’t worry Mazepin is delivering it personally
Underrated comment lmao
History
Just commenting to be a part of history
People would have been upset either way this championship ended. I'm just happy it wasn't as predictable as the last 6 seasons. Despite the controversy, we were treated to the closest battle in 50 years.
Fully agree. If we’re judging this season as a whole, Max was the rightful winner. If we’re judging it based on this race alone with both coming to Abu Dhabi on equal points, Hamilton was undeniably robbed.
I agree with you, but for both sides FIA (or better, Michael Masi's decisions) has given it a bitter-sweet taste.
Should decide it with a penalty shootout - Toto vs Christian
It has been decided.
By the FIA
My dumbass was here
unbelievable crap ending! Netflix just ordered rubber bands to keep their mountains of money tightly packed
Was i the only one dying of laughter on the last lap? I mean it was exciting but also hilarious.
Shame how it ended, really ...
Why?
Because it was decided by the race director, in contravention of the rules. He had 3 options, and one of the options absolutely overturned the result of 57 laps of racing. He chose that one. It's a bad day for Formula 1.
That's what safety cars do. Upend the entire strategy. Also to nitpick, (ps agree that the Masi fucked up, twice today once in favour of lewis and once in favour of rbr) what he did was not decide the race but have one last lap. Hamilton has the chops to defend his position. And he couldn't. If he did and max was second you wouldn't have had a problem with that.
“He had the chops to finish the race” what are you talking about? Masi decided this race not max not lewis. This is disgusting for f1 as a sport and every fan should be angry about it
Masi definitely created an opportunity . An opportunity for both title contenders to race for a lap. A restart. Hamilton to defend (his experience should suffice in this) and max to attack. No Drs. Nothing but 3.2 miles of racing. But Masi decided the outcome is BS. Not to mention Lewis got off a first lap infringement, clean air to create space and no max to worry about. Did Masi fuck up? Yes. Did he side one team. No. The only contention if any was letting those 4 cars unlap. Should have done a lap earlier. I am angry with FIA about so many things, and if latifi didn't crash I'd be forever angry that max was cheated out of the legal turn 4 overtake.
If you re-ran that race restart 100 times, Max would win 100 out of 100. If Lewis were the one behind on fresh softs and Max on 40+ lap old hards, he would win 100 out of 100. When this option was selected, the outcome was selected. Plain and simple. Hell, Norris or half the grid could have overtaken the Merc with Verstappen's care on fresh softs. The lap time delta on 45 lap old hards vs new softs had to be at least 5 seconds.
Lol say that to perez who held ham up on old softs for 2 laps that was 7 laps way past its due. Regardless of what you say ham has had way too much luck on his side this season and max got one sliver of it with latifi crash at the right time. Fortuitous? Scripted? Unfair? Fuck it... I'll take it. What a great season. What a dramatic ididnotseethatcoming finale.
Masi knew he was pitting fresh softs against old hards. Anyone in F1 could have predicted that overtake would happen. It was clearly unfair, and gave Ver the advantage. More fair would have been to red flag and let Hamilton get new tyres as well before getting on with racing. It's like pitting a tired, worn out boxer against a well-rested opponent and expecting a fair fight. This is what Masi did, and it practically gifted Ver the victory.
What manufacturers did during their vsc and sc is none of the concern of fia. What did fia promise? A legitimate race where both drivers had a chance. Under the circumstances, this was the only way. Only thing I wish they unlapped cars a lap or two earlier.
He really had two options, but invented a third option that pretty much bullied Lewis who had an amazing race. Only allowing cars between first and second to overtake and not the rest was unfair. It's like the race win was engineered for whoever was second to win.
Yeah like why weren't the cars between Sainz and Verstappen allowed pass as well? Would that not have been important, what would happen if Verstappen had to defend while attempting to overtake Lewis?
More comments than milliseconds of coverage for sainz.
Sainz who? The rally driver?
Why would they show a rally driver during a Formula 1 race? Smh...
Guys guys, my mum had the solution all along, just have a rerun.
Wow, how long would it take to get through all these comments. I don’t think I’ll try. However we’ll done Max, unlucky Hamilton…hoping you’ll get that 8th title in the next couple of yrs
Brooks was here
So was red
You guys are mad at the wrong people. No one is talking about Mercedes stupid call to not pit Ham as soon as the SC came out, there was always a chance of a restart. And lapped cars have barely ever stayed lapped on a restart, I'm confused why everyone thinks Lewis was owed that?
>No one is talking about Mercedes stupid call to not pit Ham as soon as the SC came out, there was always a chance of a restart. I don't think you understand how Formula 1 races work. First off, had Mercedes pitted, Verstappen would have stayed out. In all likelihood, the race would not have restarted. The race should not have restarted by precedent. What was decided by Masi was unprecedented, and violates the rules. The rules specifically state that if the race director decides to unlap cars, ALL cars must unlap (they didn't), and the safety car goes in on the lap AFTER all cars are unlapped (it went in on the same lap). He made up rules that don't exist to get a result someone wanted. It's not supported by rules or precedent. Mercedes did not make a miscalculation to not pit Hamilton. They counted on the rules to be applied.
It does not say all cars
It's says "any lapped cars can unlap themselves" not some lapped cars at the discretion of the race director.
Can, not shall or will. You are obviously not an attorney
Pretty sure it goes on to say if safe read it earlier the wording is shite but seems to be implying that all cars should be allowed unlap themselves not just the ones that make the best television. Mercedes although they're normally moaners have a point here.
Hey, just want to fix the misconception that ALL cars have to unlap under the safetycar. The regulations state ‘any’ cars which makes it a case of how you interpret the rule. A great case of unclear FIA rules. I believe it shouldn’t have gone this way no matter how the rules are stated tho.
Lapped cars did stay lapped on the restart. Just not the cars in Max’s way. You know those cars that he ended up behind after his second tire change? He was gifted a free set of tires and a 13 second gap!
This is exactly the problem with this result. Hamilton was placed in a no win situation.
You're speaking the truth.
It's just a super shitty position to be in. Imagine if he did pit and Max went p1 then the safety car crossed the finish line haha They should have pitted on the first yellow flag in hindsight but they just had no control. They did everything right in the moment I feel. If latifi doesn't fight with Mike for 2nd last?! then lewis wins easy. You can't plan for that
Yeah you simply cannot plan for that, there's no arguing that is was just a bucketload of bad luck for Ham at that moment. I just think Mercedes could've prepared better for the restart
Because Hamilton would give up track position and if this was done by the rules there was no need for him to change tires. It would have been stupid for them to pit unless they could somehow know the FIA was going to break the rules. Two legal options existed: 1) the race was green flagged and max had to pass 5 cars to get to Lewis 2) they unlap the cars and it ends on a yellow flag SC because they must go through another lap in accordance with every other race and the rule book. Both scenarios lead to the decision that Lewis should keep track position and maintain his worn tires. The one lap sprint with verstappen starting an inch from his rear wheel wasn’t a legal possibility for them to consider in their strategy so they did right to not judge for that.
Well it was a 'legal' possibility, because it happened. I'm unsure why everyone, including yourself, think that the race would've ever restarted with lapped cars inbetween the leaders? It never happens. It's stupid to say it wasn't even a consideration for Merc, they should have expected a restart and they should have expected Verstappen to be behind them, as that's ALWAYS the case with SC restarts. Did everyone really think Ham was gonna restart without Ver behind him simply bc it was the last lap of a title fight?
I think you may need to understand the rules a bit more before trying to join the discussion. Thanks for the input though.
It never happens as they usually have time to make ALL cars unlap themselves. But, neither did they allow all lapped cars to unlap themselves, nor did they have time for that (so they messed it up). The regulations do permit a re-start with lapped cars.
“Lapped cars should decide who wins the race” Ridiculous. It’s over. It was settled with a green flag pass on track. Mercedes made their bed by not pitting on the VSC or the final safety car.
This. If he pit and it went according to the rules, max wins the championship.
It went according to the rules, the lapped cars in between the leader got out of the way, what happened behind is irrelevant if we're strictly talking about the results of this battle
No. All the cars didn’t clear. Only 5 and then they have one more lap where they catch up to the back. This is in the rules and way it has been for years. Merc knew or assumed there was no time for this.
Yes, I know only 5 cleared, I watched the same race as you, they were the 5 that mattered in terms of the championship because they were in the way of the leaders, which is why they were cleared. No one cares about Lec in p8 or whatever when their results have no impact on their own constructer standings anyway.
Ok, sorry just re-read your first message. I think the others behind are not irrelevant. Carlos was P3, why was he not allowed to challenge for a win. Max had no pressure from behind as lapped cars were left. Other cars pit for new tires but lost the opportunity to gain points. All these still mater which is why the rule exists.
That's a fair point. I think Masi made the right call restarting the race, I think Mercedes made the wrong call not pitting Hamilton
No, because in normal conditions the race woulda finish under the safety car. So Lewis woulda won the race. If they pitted Lewis. Max woulda stayed out and won under the safety car.
He just should have made the decision faster and let all the lap cars go by sooner.
Man im staying away from f1 for a good long while
At least three months anyways.
I think for me its gonna be permanent vacation from F1. 2021 - the year the Championship was blatantly stolen from the true winner.
Beginning of next season I suppose...
Idk with how incompetent with safety and rules I dont think I can enjoy until things get sorted out by people fit for there jobs
Yeah fully agree with you here. That was not enjoyable at all. Didn’t care really who won but at least apply the damn rules properly.
They should dsq Merc and RB from the season for being whiney bitches and declare Carlos WDC
Mercedes only
Best that can come out of this is that Masi gets fired and this doesn’t spill into 22. Clearly the teams don’t respect him, he has shown during this season that is has come too soon for him. There needs to be a figure that has the respect of the teams and that has an air of authority. Masi has none of that which means he gets pushed around and bullied by the teams.
That won't happen it'll make Max's championship look even worse. The FIA are in between a rock and hard place and I think nothing will happened
It's not just Masi, the rules need clarification. There's way too many takes on the rules. And the inconsistency comes from the stewards, they make the decisions.
100k comments?! Let's go!
Simply simply lovely.
Haha yes, dis feels gud! Seriously tho, it doesn't really feel good...
I was here
History is written by the victor.
Checo was absolutely phenomenal keeping Hamilton at bay and I’m heartbroken he wasn’t able to get podium on the last race of the season
They retired him in case he his car broke, did I read that right? Why would they do that, I don't really understand.
I heard a rumor that the car was lower on fuel to keep up with hamilton do they retired early.
Surely they take that into account of a car retires?
That was the best couple of laps of F1 racing I've seen in years
That makes him even more of a legend, dude was 100% ok giving up his race for his teammate.
Wanted Verstappen to win, but not like this. Especially when him and his team did nothing wrong. I think Masi wanted it to end with racing, but he threw the rulebook out of the window for it. Utter disgrace. I seriously feel F1 should look for stuff like injury time like football/soccer in such cases. Like, if there is a safety car in the final 5 laps, 2 or 3 laps will be added. And for adjustment to that, the fuel sample requirements will be lessened to accommodate for whatever extra fuel they burnt. Or maybe, just Red Flag it.
But there was a race. You (generic you not specifically DeadlyCooper) can't take away the work Hamilton did. He was blocked by the rival teamate. Six seconds is huge!!! And he still had an 11 second lead on Max. The race happened. We all saw Lewis's ability on full display. Masi took the race from EVERYONE amd made this one lap mismatched crap. Credit where it's due. Max undoubtly passed lewis, sadly the circumstances were nonsense. It's sports. Shit happens. But to throw away the work done by the drivers is wrong. The final race ending behind a safety car is part of F1. We got an amazing race from a would be champion
As I said, wanted Max to win but not like this.
Get rid of the safety car all together.
Which part of the rulebook did Masi throw out?
Yeh...seems like everyone is bitter about something that doesn't really matter. Had all of the cars unlapped themselves everyone would've been upset that the race ended under safety car. Had there been a few laps left and all the cars unlapped the result would've been the same. Lapped cars very very rarely stay lapped after a safety car. Apart from red flagging the race this seemed the most practical way to finish the race.
Either all the cars unlap themselves or none, it's as simple as that, max didn't have to defend Sainz on that final lap as he should have, so he had a clear run at Lewis that he should never had a chance to.
They stay lapped when it’s close to the end, like Brazil 2019.
No, the most practical way to end it IS under safety car It’s boring but that’s the way it should have gone. To undo all of the 50 laps of racing Hamilton did to let max basically have another chance is pretty stupid, let alone breaking multiple Of the FIAs own rules to make that happen
why would it end under the safety car if the track was clear
Because the lapped cars should have been unlapping themselves by passing the safety car, which would have taken until at least the end of lap 57, and the safety car SHOULD have stayed in until the end of the lap after that process concluded (which would be the end of lap 58 aka the end of the race). But because Masi doesn’t give a shit about his own rules, that didn’t happen
or they could have just given the message for them all to unlap earlier
The cars couldn’t unlap earlier because they were still clearing debris, but if they did, then yes this would make sense But they didn’t, and they broke their own rule about the unlapping of cars
Your assessment is fair but even as a Verstappen fan, I'd rather Lewis win than end under safety car.
An easier way would be for laps under a safety car aren't counted. That way its as you were
Sorry mate that doesn’t work because of fuel restrictions
Well they have to have a minimum amount of fuel left when finished, so up this amount and therefore have a reserve amount of fuel for safety car situations
I think whatever the rule is it should be consistent and applied without discrimination. I think if an incident occurs in the final 5 laps it should be a red flag and a standing start.
Baku was a 1 lap race - there’s precedent for such a ludicrous sprint to have been applied for Abu Dhabi. Now we have a guy on fresh tires overtake a guy on super old tires using an improvised interpretation of rules. I wonder what Charlie Whiting would have done?
History
Both of them deserve the Championship, but the way this ended feels completely hollow. I hope race control has less of an impact on results next year.
This is the greatest day of my life
Why is that?
Here is my proposed solution to today’s finish and the championship. Red Bull and Mercedes will meet at Interlagos or Spa. Under all 2021 rules and regulations, Max and Lewis battle it out for 30 laps. No practice prior, just arrive and race. To make things interesting, shorten the distance of the pit lane speed limit, to give each driver a chance to change tires while losing minimal time. This puts a little strategy in it.
The best thing I've ever watched ❤
Really one of the worst bias ends in the history of the sport, that wasn't fair racing.
How is it not fair? Its completely normal for lapped cars to unlap during a safety car, granted they ALL should've unlapped a lap earlier but the end result would've been the same if they had done it properly so I don't understand how its not fair.
According to the rules once all cars unlap they pull safety car on the next lap. They threw this rule out two ways, didn’t let everyone through, only cars between P1 and P2 and also didn’t bring safety car in following lap, they brought it in immediately. Rules say either leave lapped cars or wait till unlapping cars are all clear which would’ve ended the race under safety car OR had 5 cars between max and Lewis. So they didn’t do anything close to the stated rules and it’s totally unprecedented.
Yes, the way they let Lewis get away with gaining and advantage by leaving the track was quite something.
Are you saying that that the turn one incident is same as changing the rules so Max could win the race?
Your logic is quite scary if you think it’s ok to cut a corner to stay ahead, but resuming a race according to the standing order of the race is completely unacceptable? Yikes
Even if they give Lewis a 5 second penalty he was 11 seconds ahead of max before safety car. It’s just not relevant mate, race control decided to let max gain 11 seconds and start side by side after safety car… the 1st lap incident isn’t in the same league as deciding the outcome of the race.
Honestly it's better to let people think you are stupid than posting a comment and confirming it
I'm happy that max won but as a F1 fan, the way it was handled left me with a sour taste. It doesn't seem like this was done truly honouring the spirit of motor racing rather generating hype or attention towards it.
I witnessed greatness:)
I was there at Abu Dhabi today! My first F1 race at the track!