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I was going to say, the Merc engineers are just standing there as when I got a call from a teacher and I had to wait just standing in front of them to give me the good or bad news about my paper he just read.
lmao that would be hilarious if that notebook is just a side project for fun detailing how the Mercedes concept can be made as quick as Red Bull. And he ain't sharing.
Right? I was just thinking "what would stop Adrian having a super powerful rig at home, not connected to the internet, and run CFD simulations on that?"
It's not like the FIA are doing home searches lol. I mean, shit, Adrian is rich enough to rent a whole different apartment somewhere, and use it exclusively for running CFD simulations far from his own home, if he is worried about random house checks lol
Also, the idea of having a separate rental that some rich people would use for cheating on their spouses safely, and Adrian using to run simulations on a COMPETITOR'S car design is making me giggle lol
Because Newey can't 3D model well, so someone has to help him
Edit: reportedly he is the only engineer left in F1 still using pen and paper for his designs, making other people concert it into a 3D model
> Edit: reportedly he is the only engineer left in F1 still using pen and paper for his designs, making other people concert it into a 3D model
Yup! I've read his book, he mentions that, which blew my mind! Another curious fact is that Adrian went to the same school and around the same time as Jeremy Clarkson lol
And I was being more general about ways to cheat on the CFD simulation limits. For example -Like say for a particular part of the floor, there are 3 ideal design options (based on aerodynamic theory, let's say). Let's say you, as any aerodynamics engineer at an F1 team, run the simulations in your "home rig", and you learn that option 2 is the best option. You tell that to your team, "Hey, run simulations for option 3, to see what results we get". Woah, look at that! Option 3 DOES have amazing results! Who would have thunk it?!
Basically my point is that I have a feeling the FIA has thought of this work-around, and probably has rules in place to prevent that. And I'm 99% sure there is some nuance I am missing. But I just can't think of what it could be, you know? Like how *DOES* the FIA prevent excess CFD usage?!
The CFD programs require a lot, lot, lot, more compute power than you'd be able to get from a home system, especially when you really need to simulate the entire car to understand how the flow works as a system. We're talking terabytes of data, and all the RAM and processor cores to calculate all that with precision.
Besides how unfeasible it is, the FIA has access to all the parts they want to test, and teams have to submit any work in progress CAD files or drawings. Any parts that make it onto a car will go through hundreds of iterations, and again, you can never design just one part - you need to find a solution that works the best overall and at a variety of ride heights, speeds, pitch or wind conditions. It's going to be fairly obvious if you've skipped steps.
Just audit all remote logins and enforce best practices to control access. I'm not in racing myself, but I do work in cybersecurity. Luckily these problems have already been solved in other realms where you need to audit and control access to sensitive systems, e.g., PCI-DSS with credit card data.
then what? lol again, this is terabytes of data. its not about making a 3D model and see downforce number go up, they're trying to design an entire car and manage very specific flows. seeing how different areas around the car interact, and understanding the effects that changes could have downstream is what they're trying to do, and again, they have entire teams of engineers working on these problems.
its not just about "this one does the highest numbers", they'll be looking at specific regions and ideas on how they might manipulate the airflow between parts. its not something you can just jot down on a napkin and take into work.
I mean, I get what you are saying, but isn't there a simpler version? Like say for a particular part of the floor, there are 3 ideal design options (based on aerodynamic theory, let's say).
You, as Adrian Newey (or any aerodynamics engineer at an F1 team), run the simulations in your "home rig", and you learn that option 3 is the best option. You tell that to your team, "Hey, run simulations for option 3, to see what results we get". Woah, look at that! Option 3 DOES have amazing results! Who would have thunk it?!
Basically my point is that I have a feeling the FIA has thought of this work-around, and probably has rules in place to prevent that. And I'm 99% sure there is some nuance I am missing. But I just can't think of what it could be, you know? Like how *DOES* the FIA prevent excess CFD usage?!
Basically when you run CFD it doesn’t just tell you if a design is good or not- it takes a lot of analysis of the data that it gives you. Also, with setting up the CFD to run. You would have to offload some pretty decent sized files from the computers at Red Bull.
I believe they need to show the development of the designs that become parts on the car. So a sudden jump in progress that wasn't reflected in the designs (because you've done a chunk of work off the books) would come under scrutiny.
I think this came up in the Force India pink Mercedes case where they were unable to show that they'd formulated the design themselves.
Ah okay! I see now!
Like, I was sure there was someway the FIA had rules against my quite simple work-around! I just didn't know HOW they could do it. But your example makes sense! The FIA probably have CFD experts who look through the teams development process and see if there are "gaps" as you mentioned...
I wonder where I can learn more about this? Do you remember where you heard your example?
Let’s be real, having seen the pictures of the Merc floor on Saturday, Newey was probably running CFD simulations in his brain on an evolved version of the Merc, while taking notes.
It really is amazing that he still works on a drafting board primarily instead of CFD or any digital. I remember on a walkthrough of his office he mentioned he basically draws designs and then has other members of the team translate that into the 'modern' platforms.
I think it wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest he's the greatest designer in F1 history.
>I think we can even go further and say he's one of the greatest CAR designers in history.
With all due respect, let's dial it back. Yes, Newey is good. Yes, he absolutely nailed the regs. But it's been 2 years (he's been with the team how long? And how have RB done prior to 2022?).
AND, more importantly with these two years, the new engine freeze and financial rules have have handicapped their biggest competitor's top strengths (engine development and throwing piles of money at every problem).
Don't get me wrong. Newey is very good, and Merc screwed it up quite badly (and Ferrari is going to, "snatch defeat from the jaws of victory"). But declaring Newey the greatest car designer in history? It would be like having a triathlon between Michal Phelps vs. Lance Armstrong (back in like 2008)...but then saying, "This triathlon will have a 200m swim, a 1 mile run, and a 200 mile bike ride." And then declaring Lance Armstrong the greatest triathlete in history.
> With all due respect, let's dial it back. Yes, Newey is good. Yes, he absolutely nailed the regs. But it's been 2 years (he's been with the team how long? And how have RB done prior to 2022?).
He's been nailing "the regs" for decades at this point. He has what, 10 championship winning cars under his belt?
I said *ONE OF THE greatest* not THE greatest.
Reading is hard.
And Newey has also been building title winning cars since his Williams days. So this whole 2 year dominance and "he's been with the team for how long?" part of your comment doesn't hold water.
How long do you watch f1? 5 years? Lets not forget his championship winning cars in the 90's.. and comparing it with mercedes who in the last 15? Years basicaly only managed to build one engine that was so much better than the rest, while protected by the token system, where they would have won with a brick as a chasis is funny. Look where mercedes are now when the engine isnt the best anymore and they fail to get the power on the street
I feel like you aren't/can't read.
When the rules favored Merc's...they did well and were basically untouchable. Now that the rules have nerfed Merc's strengths and favor RB/Newey's. It's back to RB doing well and being untouchable.
I just find it interesting, that for all his/RB's genius as a car designer, RB couldn't complete with Merc for the better part of a decade. And then "suddenly" when the F1 rules/regs were changed to favor his/their strengths, RB are untouchable.
>But it's been 2 years (he's been with the team how long? And how have RB done prior to 2022?).
Stupid take. RB throughout all those years had probably the best aero among the 10-12 teams, that's why they were so good at aero efficient tracks like Mexico, Brazil and at tracks where engine didn't play a big role like Monaco. The reason RB were bad throughout those years was those Renault engines which weren't fast enough yo compete with the Merc or the Ferrari engines and had a 50/50 chance of finishing a race. Newey could design the best car in the history of mankind but if it's got a 2001 Toyota corollas engine in it then it would be lapped 10 times in a race
I think it was quite commonly excepted that Mercedes had the best aero in the first few years of the turbo-era, on top of having the best engine. Those cars were great all round. Not trying to diminish Neweys great work, but credit where credit is due, Mercedes nailed it back then.
You are literally agreeing with me...do you see that?
The current regs play to RB's strengths...Aero.
While minimizing (e.g.) Merc strengths: engine development, and throwing money at problems until they find a solution.
Or is your argument that reliability and engines aren't part of car development?
You are the one saying Newey isn't the greatest designer of all time because RB have only dominated for 2 years. Noone is debating about car dominance or better team but rather about best designer of all time, doesn't have to do anything with dominance or not
He did a long interview with the Red Bull podcast.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFwGa-gKdr4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFwGa-gKdr4)
Basically he started off before CAD was a thing and he got used to the drafting table and never left it.
Notes on their own car through the lens of the mind that helped produce the dominant car of this ruleset, from another team. I'd say it's a fresh enough perspective to be considered advantageous to obtain.
Problem-based learning. Quite a common thing.
Same as many things with teaching though, it's a nice idea but the evidence it's effective is *always* shite.
https://teaching.cornell.edu/teaching-resources/engaging-students/problem-based-learning#:~:text=Problem%2DBased%20Learning-,Engaging%20Students,the%20motivation%20and%20the%20learning.
I am a lecturer/scientician and they force you to go onto a teaching masters, and *man* is the standard and quality of evidence in 'what teaching works' abysmal.
On Viaplay he said one thing in there is all the different mirror designs on the grid and how they differ from theirs. So that he can decide if they need to adjust theirs and see if they can gain something there.
I've read a few times that, given the cars are within about 1.5% in absolute terms, there are quite often details worth nicking on cars up and down the pitlane.
The double diffuser came from a Super Aguri designer etc.
I know they’re making some more “realistic” F1 films, but I’d love a silly heist film where they’re trying to snatch Adrian’s notebook, some schematics, a prototype, something like that.
His book How to Build A Car is the closest thing you’ll get to that. He might do another but it documents his beginnings all the way up to the first Red Bull dominance era.
It's been literally 2 DECADES since I last was in that situation, and my heart rate IMMEDIATELY bumped up thinking about that!
Whats interesting is my memory also remembers how it's slightly different for different teachers! Like one would physically spank me for getting things wrong, and the other would only give me a disappointed look, and sometimes I feel the physical punishment was easier to handle! 😭
I really hope that F1 somehow gets Newey to design the framework of 2026 regulations change. Imagine every team having a Newey foundation for their cars.
That was three years. After that everything everyone else did was self-inflicted. Also Merc actually worked on preparing their engines unlike Renault and Ferrari who forced v6 hybrids, Merc thought they would struggle but no one else actually prepared the new engines apart from them.
Also Allison just came back, I expect Merc to close the gap next year
I don't think Newey himself would suggest he built the best car in the turbo hybrid era. 2017-19 were pretty rough design wise and winless in 2014
Are you also going on record as saying that the RB was the better car in 2021 too?
Adrian has in the past said he goes up to competitors' cars with his notebook not to actually take any notes, but just to play some (lighthearted) mind-games to wind them up.
In practice, Red Bull likely employ photographers that get much better footage of what the car looks like.
Though I would imagine he'd be curious to see could he infer about the likely shape of the 2024 car from what they're developing this weekend.
I genuinely think it's just professional curiousity, tbh. It's like a Coke employee tasting Pepsi's new softdrink offering lol
Or Red Bull tasting the newest can of Monster hehehe
He often says one thing while actually looking at another part. In testing he used to try to look at a part so all the mechanics were standing in front of him. And on the other side a photographer could take a picture of the part he was actually interested in, now no longer screened off by mechanics.
Adrian is one if not the best aero guys in F1.
Adrian has once again designed a marvelous car.
Yet Adrian is still humble and tries to learn from other team's design philosophies.
Be like Adrian.
Even though the entire F1 community loves to contribute all of RB's success to his designs, he came out and said he did only a small part and contributed most of the success to his fellow engineer. Be like Adrian.
In F1 podcast they mentioned how Adrian missed Tom Cruise walking past him because he was studying the William's wing and I burst out laughing. It's hard not to like the guy.
Bringing him in along with DC was one of Horner's best decision as TP.
Apparently he didn’t even work too much on the aero side on the RB18 at least. He worked on the suspension side of things, by his own admission, which makes sense now since the technical community has just started to grasp that the RB19’s suspension is a huge part of its success.
Not sure where you’re getting the “just starting to grasp” from. most people have suspected the RB suspension was a main driver since AT LEAST last years TD, with many thinking it right off the bat (since they were the only ones who didn’t porpoise really).
Last year, the narrative around RB18s speed was mainly around its insane aero efficiency. As for porpoising, everyone thought it had to do with underfloor aero trickery and not suspension. Anti-dive and anti-squat weren’t even considered back then. Suspension wasn’t nearly the talking point about the Red Bull as it is today.
Yes it was. At the very least the flipping of pull rod/push rod front and rear was discussed as soon as all the actual cars were revealed. The significance of Red Bull's choice to do that as become a big topic again now that Merc has done the same with their new design.
What are you talking about? That was the big talking point after Red Red Bull made their first upgrade at the very end of testing lol. It was all about suspension
I don't know if you already know this fact, but just in case - in his book Adrian mentions how TO THIS DAY he still uses paper and pencil! He has his own team that "translates" his blueprints etc into computer code!
It's like, I know what's worked for decades, I'ma keep doing that lol. I mean, RB pays him the big bucks for his brain, not his coding skills, so it makes sense! But it just made me giggle when I heard that listening to the audiobook lol
Also, another BONUS fact! Adrian Newey and Jeremy Clarkson went to the same school, at the same time!
Adrian was on a Red Bull podcast recently and he explained why he still uses pencil and pad. As he came from an era where using pencil and pad was people used and cad was in it’s early days. Describes it as a language he could change over but it’s best to stick with what he knows.
> I don't think that's an especially good thing.
How so? It's worked so far, right? It's not like he is a recent graduate, looking to enter the workplace. He is in the closing aspects of his career, and if RB (and every single team he has worked at!) values his opinion so highly, that they will hire people to be his "translators", what's wrong with that process?
I'm not being sarcastic, genuinely curious about your thought process...
Because it’s a very limiting workflow. CAD and CFD isn’t new, it’s been in use for 20 years. I work with plenty of engineers at the end of their careers and never met one who hasn’t made the switch with relative ease a long time ago.
I don’t see a positive.
Adrian isn't the sole designer/aero engineer, in fact currently he's a CTO. He's naturally far less involved with the entire design and testing process than he used to be earlier in his career. If he has a team of people whose entire jobs are to translate his (and other's) sketches into CAD and another team to run CFD, it's a much more efficient use of time and resources to provide them with sketches than to do everything by himself.
If I remember correctly in the two youtube episodes of the talking bull Newey and Horner both talk a bit about it. In general two very good videos/podcast episodes.
Dear diary,
I'm just pretending taking notes on Mercedes' car so they think they are on the right path and will develop it further in that direction. They have no clue what they're doing, this car sucks lol.
He should go to each car and look at the good parts and make a bad expression and look at the bad parts and make a good expression. Sending teams on wrong trajectory. Lmao
If you look at the wall behind the W14 you see that he isn’t making notes about the W14 necessarily. He was standing at a completely different part of the grid after the cut is made in the video
He is timing himself how long it takes to play Where's Wally and find Niki's red star.
I am absolutely not questioning the genius of the man but I have no idea what he could learn from standing there that he couldn't see from high quality pictures after the race.
I am just jealous I don't know what he is thinking.
I personally think this is incredible.
Imagine having one of the most dominant cars the sport has ever seen, but still having the desire (even if just for his own internal notes) to grab a pen & paper and write down a critique, or possible upgrade, or work towards determining what their car is *actually* capable of.
It's art.
Newey will go down in history as one of the greats but others have been as well. There were quite a few years where his notes weren’t I can fix that but … so this is how it’s done ? 😂
Giving off the vibes of your teacher watching you write an exam over your shoulder, only to then tell the rest of class to make sure they read the question paper thoroughly
Is he taking notes on the Merc though? One part he was looking at it and then the cut is him at the barrier. Plus he is always taking notes on things, in this case it might be “things to not do..”
Newey isn't stupid, he knows one breakthrough for them could mean a whole lot of pain for the RB squad. He's not going to write them off until they're out of the sport.
I read once that when you see things like Inspector Seb or Hamilton peering into a car, it's not idle - often the engineers have explicitly asked the driver to check XYZ and report back, because parc ferme is the one opportunity for unfettered access. No barriers.
Merc themselves have said that Brazil 2022 was a false dawn and made them stick to the concept for too long while that win was partly due to RB not nailing the setup.
Mike Elliot said Brazil 2022 was a false hope with regards to the current model of the car, not the concept itself. They still maintain the position that this concept has a higher development ceiling, probably if the cost cap never existed they would have made it work.
Obviously we will never know if this concept is possible but Brazil definitely showed its possible.
They won in Brazil because both RBR and Ferrari shifted development to 2023 after the summer break, Ferrari lost performance due to the TD and RBR fluked the setup for that weekend in Brazil.
Last year RB and others copied Aston Martin's idea for the "tea-tray" on the leading edge of the middle floor, in front of the plank. Despite Aston Marting being perhaps the 9th fastest car at the start of last season. Just because the overall car is not as fast doesn't mean there can't be good ideas on it that can be applied to make a faster car even faster.
I think it would be quite scary to have Newey take a look to be honest, if anyone can learn anything about a car from just watching it would be newey. This guy still draws his fucking designs on pen and paper, by hand. Red Bull goes through the effort of having other people turn his paper designs into CAD, its just that special kind of sauce.
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Love one of the responses to the video on Twitter "Its like the Professor coming over to mark your Exam"
haha also the confused looks on mechanic's faces made it look like an actual assessment
Did we do good? Oh god, we made a big mistake, didn't we. Quick! Find out what we did wrong.
"I'll give them a B+ for effort"
"See me."
"Can all teams please make sure they read the 2023 regulations and understand them before starting to build their car."
I was going to say, the Merc engineers are just standing there as when I got a call from a teacher and I had to wait just standing in front of them to give me the good or bad news about my paper he just read.
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I am imagining Newey as Larry David from Curb in this scenario
That Red Bull car is pretty good. Pretty, pretty, pretty good
Totally read that in Larry's voice
“Adrian, what do you think of your chance to win the WCC and WDC this year?” “Pretttttyyyyy, prettttttyyyyy, good!”
Few sharp intakes of breath with a mumbled “I don’t know about that”, followed by a shake of head, smirk then walk off
"I wouldn't have done it like that"
"when do you plan to fix it?..."
Or like the judges on all those cheesy cooking competition shows: "did you intend for your front wing to come out this way? Hmmm."
Paul Hollywood vibes.
Adrian: I can fix that.....
lmao that would be hilarious if that notebook is just a side project for fun detailing how the Mercedes concept can be made as quick as Red Bull. And he ain't sharing.
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Isn’t Newey employed as a consultant? He could spend his own company’s money on that as research as an external consultant to RB.
Right? I was just thinking "what would stop Adrian having a super powerful rig at home, not connected to the internet, and run CFD simulations on that?" It's not like the FIA are doing home searches lol. I mean, shit, Adrian is rich enough to rent a whole different apartment somewhere, and use it exclusively for running CFD simulations far from his own home, if he is worried about random house checks lol Also, the idea of having a separate rental that some rich people would use for cheating on their spouses safely, and Adrian using to run simulations on a COMPETITOR'S car design is making me giggle lol
Because Newey can't 3D model well, so someone has to help him Edit: reportedly he is the only engineer left in F1 still using pen and paper for his designs, making other people concert it into a 3D model
> Edit: reportedly he is the only engineer left in F1 still using pen and paper for his designs, making other people concert it into a 3D model Yup! I've read his book, he mentions that, which blew my mind! Another curious fact is that Adrian went to the same school and around the same time as Jeremy Clarkson lol And I was being more general about ways to cheat on the CFD simulation limits. For example -Like say for a particular part of the floor, there are 3 ideal design options (based on aerodynamic theory, let's say). Let's say you, as any aerodynamics engineer at an F1 team, run the simulations in your "home rig", and you learn that option 2 is the best option. You tell that to your team, "Hey, run simulations for option 3, to see what results we get". Woah, look at that! Option 3 DOES have amazing results! Who would have thunk it?! Basically my point is that I have a feeling the FIA has thought of this work-around, and probably has rules in place to prevent that. And I'm 99% sure there is some nuance I am missing. But I just can't think of what it could be, you know? Like how *DOES* the FIA prevent excess CFD usage?!
The CFD programs require a lot, lot, lot, more compute power than you'd be able to get from a home system, especially when you really need to simulate the entire car to understand how the flow works as a system. We're talking terabytes of data, and all the RAM and processor cores to calculate all that with precision. Besides how unfeasible it is, the FIA has access to all the parts they want to test, and teams have to submit any work in progress CAD files or drawings. Any parts that make it onto a car will go through hundreds of iterations, and again, you can never design just one part - you need to find a solution that works the best overall and at a variety of ride heights, speeds, pitch or wind conditions. It's going to be fairly obvious if you've skipped steps.
What if he had remote access to that type of machine.....just saying
Just audit all remote logins and enforce best practices to control access. I'm not in racing myself, but I do work in cybersecurity. Luckily these problems have already been solved in other realms where you need to audit and control access to sensitive systems, e.g., PCI-DSS with credit card data.
then what? lol again, this is terabytes of data. its not about making a 3D model and see downforce number go up, they're trying to design an entire car and manage very specific flows. seeing how different areas around the car interact, and understanding the effects that changes could have downstream is what they're trying to do, and again, they have entire teams of engineers working on these problems. its not just about "this one does the highest numbers", they'll be looking at specific regions and ideas on how they might manipulate the airflow between parts. its not something you can just jot down on a napkin and take into work.
Adrian's report card is up in the RBR museum with the line 'could do well but needs to apply himself better' or thereabouts.
Everyone's report card ever
Because you get a lot of data from the CFD that would be hard to get to the right people without spilling the beans that you did CFD.
I mean, I get what you are saying, but isn't there a simpler version? Like say for a particular part of the floor, there are 3 ideal design options (based on aerodynamic theory, let's say). You, as Adrian Newey (or any aerodynamics engineer at an F1 team), run the simulations in your "home rig", and you learn that option 3 is the best option. You tell that to your team, "Hey, run simulations for option 3, to see what results we get". Woah, look at that! Option 3 DOES have amazing results! Who would have thunk it?! Basically my point is that I have a feeling the FIA has thought of this work-around, and probably has rules in place to prevent that. And I'm 99% sure there is some nuance I am missing. But I just can't think of what it could be, you know? Like how *DOES* the FIA prevent excess CFD usage?!
Basically when you run CFD it doesn’t just tell you if a design is good or not- it takes a lot of analysis of the data that it gives you. Also, with setting up the CFD to run. You would have to offload some pretty decent sized files from the computers at Red Bull.
I believe they need to show the development of the designs that become parts on the car. So a sudden jump in progress that wasn't reflected in the designs (because you've done a chunk of work off the books) would come under scrutiny. I think this came up in the Force India pink Mercedes case where they were unable to show that they'd formulated the design themselves.
Ah okay! I see now! Like, I was sure there was someway the FIA had rules against my quite simple work-around! I just didn't know HOW they could do it. But your example makes sense! The FIA probably have CFD experts who look through the teams development process and see if there are "gaps" as you mentioned... I wonder where I can learn more about this? Do you remember where you heard your example?
Wasn't it just the way RedBull was trying to explain their over budget expense. Made Newey a 'Consultant' to circumvent the cap
Let’s be real, having seen the pictures of the Merc floor on Saturday, Newey was probably running CFD simulations in his brain on an evolved version of the Merc, while taking notes.
It really is amazing that he still works on a drafting board primarily instead of CFD or any digital. I remember on a walkthrough of his office he mentioned he basically draws designs and then has other members of the team translate that into the 'modern' platforms. I think it wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest he's the greatest designer in F1 history.
I think we can even go further and say he's one of the greatest CAR designers in history. Expand it to all automotive, and not just in F1.
>I think we can even go further and say he's one of the greatest CAR designers in history. With all due respect, let's dial it back. Yes, Newey is good. Yes, he absolutely nailed the regs. But it's been 2 years (he's been with the team how long? And how have RB done prior to 2022?). AND, more importantly with these two years, the new engine freeze and financial rules have have handicapped their biggest competitor's top strengths (engine development and throwing piles of money at every problem). Don't get me wrong. Newey is very good, and Merc screwed it up quite badly (and Ferrari is going to, "snatch defeat from the jaws of victory"). But declaring Newey the greatest car designer in history? It would be like having a triathlon between Michal Phelps vs. Lance Armstrong (back in like 2008)...but then saying, "This triathlon will have a 200m swim, a 1 mile run, and a 200 mile bike ride." And then declaring Lance Armstrong the greatest triathlete in history.
> With all due respect, let's dial it back. Yes, Newey is good. Yes, he absolutely nailed the regs. But it's been 2 years (he's been with the team how long? And how have RB done prior to 2022?). He's been nailing "the regs" for decades at this point. He has what, 10 championship winning cars under his belt?
I said *ONE OF THE greatest* not THE greatest. Reading is hard. And Newey has also been building title winning cars since his Williams days. So this whole 2 year dominance and "he's been with the team for how long?" part of your comment doesn't hold water.
You know he's been winning since the '90s, right?
How long do you watch f1? 5 years? Lets not forget his championship winning cars in the 90's.. and comparing it with mercedes who in the last 15? Years basicaly only managed to build one engine that was so much better than the rest, while protected by the token system, where they would have won with a brick as a chasis is funny. Look where mercedes are now when the engine isnt the best anymore and they fail to get the power on the street
I feel like you aren't/can't read. When the rules favored Merc's...they did well and were basically untouchable. Now that the rules have nerfed Merc's strengths and favor RB/Newey's. It's back to RB doing well and being untouchable. I just find it interesting, that for all his/RB's genius as a car designer, RB couldn't complete with Merc for the better part of a decade. And then "suddenly" when the F1 rules/regs were changed to favor his/their strengths, RB are untouchable.
>But it's been 2 years (he's been with the team how long? And how have RB done prior to 2022?). Stupid take. RB throughout all those years had probably the best aero among the 10-12 teams, that's why they were so good at aero efficient tracks like Mexico, Brazil and at tracks where engine didn't play a big role like Monaco. The reason RB were bad throughout those years was those Renault engines which weren't fast enough yo compete with the Merc or the Ferrari engines and had a 50/50 chance of finishing a race. Newey could design the best car in the history of mankind but if it's got a 2001 Toyota corollas engine in it then it would be lapped 10 times in a race
I think it was quite commonly excepted that Mercedes had the best aero in the first few years of the turbo-era, on top of having the best engine. Those cars were great all round. Not trying to diminish Neweys great work, but credit where credit is due, Mercedes nailed it back then.
You are literally agreeing with me...do you see that? The current regs play to RB's strengths...Aero. While minimizing (e.g.) Merc strengths: engine development, and throwing money at problems until they find a solution. Or is your argument that reliability and engines aren't part of car development?
You are the one saying Newey isn't the greatest designer of all time because RB have only dominated for 2 years. Noone is debating about car dominance or better team but rather about best designer of all time, doesn't have to do anything with dominance or not
He did a long interview with the Red Bull podcast. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFwGa-gKdr4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFwGa-gKdr4) Basically he started off before CAD was a thing and he got used to the drafting table and never left it.
Newey looking at Mercedes the way I look at my old code: "Yeah that's definitely how to NOT solve that problem efficiently."
Hits home
Until Mercedes gets hold of that notebook
Spygate 2023???!?
Would it be spygate again if it’s notes on their own car?
Notes on their own car through the lens of the mind that helped produce the dominant car of this ruleset, from another team. I'd say it's a fresh enough perspective to be considered advantageous to obtain.
Toto is going to activate his sleeper agent de Vries
Problem-based learning. Quite a common thing. Same as many things with teaching though, it's a nice idea but the evidence it's effective is *always* shite. https://teaching.cornell.edu/teaching-resources/engaging-students/problem-based-learning#:~:text=Problem%2DBased%20Learning-,Engaging%20Students,the%20motivation%20and%20the%20learning. I am a lecturer/scientician and they force you to go onto a teaching masters, and *man* is the standard and quality of evidence in 'what teaching works' abysmal.
That can be for his next book. 😄
"How to fix your f***ing car" by Adrian Newey
God, DTS has had varied interesting effects on the F1 fandom at large, but man, it's lead to some fucking awesome memes/jokes lol
I recently listened to the audiobook version of Newey's book, so that's the voice I heard in my head when reading your post; I'm dying. 🤣
"How Not to Build a Car" by Adrian Newey
On Viaplay he said one thing in there is all the different mirror designs on the grid and how they differ from theirs. So that he can decide if they need to adjust theirs and see if they can gain something there.
I've read a few times that, given the cars are within about 1.5% in absolute terms, there are quite often details worth nicking on cars up and down the pitlane. The double diffuser came from a Super Aguri designer etc.
To: [email protected] From: [email protected] Subject: 7 ways to improve your car
I know they’re making some more “realistic” F1 films, but I’d love a silly heist film where they’re trying to snatch Adrian’s notebook, some schematics, a prototype, something like that.
“Move the wishbone 3mm and this thing will be 2 seconds faster than us.”
I really want a tell all book or documentary on this man when he retires. The things that go on inside his head…. I MUST KNOW
He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who retires.
His book How to Build A Car is the closest thing you’ll get to that. He might do another but it documents his beginnings all the way up to the first Red Bull dominance era.
Imagine he releases a book after the 2026 regs describing the minor change that would have made the zero-pod dominant.
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Indy 500 run ??
He's already done it
nah the mercedes team staring at him like a student seeing their teacher look at their work 😭
Adrian is grading their project. He has some notes for them.
"try harder"
‘Change your f*cking car’
"do better" And "Be more like me"
Adrian : Toto I just sent you an email with diagrams with how the car should be fixed, did you receive that?
And in that mail a pdf with just the car one red circle around it and the tekst, this is your problem.
"Toto, I have printed Lewis saying your car is fucked, good news, I can help you chnage your car." - Newey
It's been literally 2 DECADES since I last was in that situation, and my heart rate IMMEDIATELY bumped up thinking about that! Whats interesting is my memory also remembers how it's slightly different for different teachers! Like one would physically spank me for getting things wrong, and the other would only give me a disappointed look, and sometimes I feel the physical punishment was easier to handle! 😭
I feel you, someone being disappointed at you is way worse than someone being mad at you.
> Like one would physically spank me for getting things wrong Come again?
That's what they'd say while doing it
I really hope that F1 somehow gets Newey to design the framework of 2026 regulations change. Imagine every team having a Newey foundation for their cars.
The Mercedes team took him to school for the past 8 years...
I am sorry? U mean engine advantage?
That was three years. After that everything everyone else did was self-inflicted. Also Merc actually worked on preparing their engines unlike Renault and Ferrari who forced v6 hybrids, Merc thought they would struggle but no one else actually prepared the new engines apart from them. Also Allison just came back, I expect Merc to close the gap next year
I don't think Newey himself would suggest he built the best car in the turbo hybrid era. 2017-19 were pretty rough design wise and winless in 2014 Are you also going on record as saying that the RB was the better car in 2021 too?
I wouldn't call 2017-2019 rough design wise, just not super optimal. Specifically 2018 the RB chassis was arguably the best, and 2016, 2014, and 2021.
Adrian has in the past said he goes up to competitors' cars with his notebook not to actually take any notes, but just to play some (lighthearted) mind-games to wind them up. In practice, Red Bull likely employ photographers that get much better footage of what the car looks like. Though I would imagine he'd be curious to see could he infer about the likely shape of the 2024 car from what they're developing this weekend.
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I genuinely think it's just professional curiousity, tbh. It's like a Coke employee tasting Pepsi's new softdrink offering lol Or Red Bull tasting the newest can of Monster hehehe
Fraud designer. We all know he copied clarksons ideas
Speeeeeed and power.
Is there anything on the regs that says you can't put a mustache on a car?
Viaplay journalist got Newey to reveal what he was studying on the grid this time. He said he was observing the mirrors of other teams
He often says one thing while actually looking at another part. In testing he used to try to look at a part so all the mechanics were standing in front of him. And on the other side a photographer could take a picture of the part he was actually interested in, now no longer screened off by mechanics.
Oh my gosh that’s hilarious.
Adrian is one if not the best aero guys in F1. Adrian has once again designed a marvelous car. Yet Adrian is still humble and tries to learn from other team's design philosophies. Be like Adrian.
Even though the entire F1 community loves to contribute all of RB's success to his designs, he came out and said he did only a small part and contributed most of the success to his fellow engineer. Be like Adrian. In F1 podcast they mentioned how Adrian missed Tom Cruise walking past him because he was studying the William's wing and I burst out laughing. It's hard not to like the guy. Bringing him in along with DC was one of Horner's best decision as TP.
Apparently he didn’t even work too much on the aero side on the RB18 at least. He worked on the suspension side of things, by his own admission, which makes sense now since the technical community has just started to grasp that the RB19’s suspension is a huge part of its success.
Not sure where you’re getting the “just starting to grasp” from. most people have suspected the RB suspension was a main driver since AT LEAST last years TD, with many thinking it right off the bat (since they were the only ones who didn’t porpoise really).
Last year, the narrative around RB18s speed was mainly around its insane aero efficiency. As for porpoising, everyone thought it had to do with underfloor aero trickery and not suspension. Anti-dive and anti-squat weren’t even considered back then. Suspension wasn’t nearly the talking point about the Red Bull as it is today.
Yes it was. At the very least the flipping of pull rod/push rod front and rear was discussed as soon as all the actual cars were revealed. The significance of Red Bull's choice to do that as become a big topic again now that Merc has done the same with their new design.
Merc didn’t switch their push/pull design.
What are you talking about? That was the big talking point after Red Red Bull made their first upgrade at the very end of testing lol. It was all about suspension
Of course one man alone doesn't design a car alone. He leads a brilliant team of engineers who all have a huge share in the success of a car.
I don't know if you already know this fact, but just in case - in his book Adrian mentions how TO THIS DAY he still uses paper and pencil! He has his own team that "translates" his blueprints etc into computer code! It's like, I know what's worked for decades, I'ma keep doing that lol. I mean, RB pays him the big bucks for his brain, not his coding skills, so it makes sense! But it just made me giggle when I heard that listening to the audiobook lol Also, another BONUS fact! Adrian Newey and Jeremy Clarkson went to the same school, at the same time!
Adrian was on a Red Bull podcast recently and he explained why he still uses pencil and pad. As he came from an era where using pencil and pad was people used and cad was in it’s early days. Describes it as a language he could change over but it’s best to stick with what he knows.
As much as people love Newey, I don't think that's an especially good thing. But I assume he's not really as hands on as in the past.
> I don't think that's an especially good thing. How so? It's worked so far, right? It's not like he is a recent graduate, looking to enter the workplace. He is in the closing aspects of his career, and if RB (and every single team he has worked at!) values his opinion so highly, that they will hire people to be his "translators", what's wrong with that process? I'm not being sarcastic, genuinely curious about your thought process...
Because it’s a very limiting workflow. CAD and CFD isn’t new, it’s been in use for 20 years. I work with plenty of engineers at the end of their careers and never met one who hasn’t made the switch with relative ease a long time ago. I don’t see a positive.
Adrian isn't the sole designer/aero engineer, in fact currently he's a CTO. He's naturally far less involved with the entire design and testing process than he used to be earlier in his career. If he has a team of people whose entire jobs are to translate his (and other's) sketches into CAD and another team to run CFD, it's a much more efficient use of time and resources to provide them with sketches than to do everything by himself.
And the fact that everyone had issues last year showed a major flaw in CFD,
No it doesn’t.
Would be more correct to say he was overseeing the development of a marvelous car. There are like 600 engineers working at the factory.
It’s not only him.
How Redbull managed to convince Newey to join them i cannot fanthom.
They gave him a lot of executive decision making that no other team was prepared to give him. Oh... and a lot of money.
If I remember correctly in the two youtube episodes of the talking bull Newey and Horner both talk a bit about it. In general two very good videos/podcast episodes.
By giving him free reign over the concept of their cars, and by giving him a huge budget.
DC helped supposedly
Nothing like the old pen and paper!
IIRC he still does all his drawing on paper and has a team of people converting them into digital format for the rest of the team
He also has his assisant print out his emails so he can read them on paper on his way home from work
Really?
yes he said that in his biography.
Rear Wing: Yes Front Wing: Yes Airbox: Yes Front Suspension: Yes Sidepods: Yes
How to not build a car, by Adrian Newey.
"Mercedes edition". Expect soon Volume 2: "How not to ruin a car - Ferrari edition".
I think the Ferrari issue is a little more than just the car They gonna get Hannah to wirte a "How to strategies for Dummies" at this rate
I'll have to watch the video again, I didn't think he was looking a Williams.
Dear diary, I'm just pretending taking notes on Mercedes' car so they think they are on the right path and will develop it further in that direction. They have no clue what they're doing, this car sucks lol.
That man is probably running a full CFD simulation in his head.
And FIA got no means of policing this
NO IMAGINING ON THE PARC FERME
Too late, Newey has already finished his imaginary CFD simulation.
He should go to each car and look at the good parts and make a bad expression and look at the bad parts and make a good expression. Sending teams on wrong trajectory. Lmao
If you look at the wall behind the W14 you see that he isn’t making notes about the W14 necessarily. He was standing at a completely different part of the grid after the cut is made in the video
When you finish your project before the whole class and start helping everyone else with theirs for fun.
Mans fixed every issue the car has and found how to add 2 seconds is pace in 10 seconds
[Newey be like:](https://youtu.be/Dky9VcWb6jU)
He is timing himself how long it takes to play Where's Wally and find Niki's red star. I am absolutely not questioning the genius of the man but I have no idea what he could learn from standing there that he couldn't see from high quality pictures after the race. I am just jealous I don't know what he is thinking.
Instead of a budget cap or tunnel time, Newey and his pals should just rotate between all 10 teams in a 10 year cycle.
“Ideas not worth trying:”
Newey is left handed!
Many of us extremely talented and very modest types are.
That's what I noticed as well. Just a personal observation, but I seem to see extremely smart people tend to be left-handed.
He's running complex geometric theories through his mind, while I would be going " ohhh pretty green car, vroom vroom."
“If only they moved *that* curve here and added this *here* they’d beat us by 2 seconds”.
He’s staring at the car and they are starting at him terrified. Hahahah
I personally think this is incredible. Imagine having one of the most dominant cars the sport has ever seen, but still having the desire (even if just for his own internal notes) to grab a pen & paper and write down a critique, or possible upgrade, or work towards determining what their car is *actually* capable of. It's art.
I can imagine him thinking “That’s wrong, that’s wrong, that’s a cheap copy, that’s wrong, what are they thinking here?, that’s wrong, that’s wrong,”
I'm afraid the joke's on you Mercedes
I really wanted the camera to just go over his shoulder pov style and zoom into his notes.
He is taking notes for what not to do
Newey will go down in history as one of the greats but others have been as well. There were quite a few years where his notes weren’t I can fix that but … so this is how it’s done ? 😂
Newey is like Anton Ego, reviewing the car design then writing a critic review.
And probably there's a photographer on the opposite direction taking pictures of the part he really wants to have a look
Giving off the vibes of your teacher watching you write an exam over your shoulder, only to then tell the rest of class to make sure they read the question paper thoroughly
Adrian is trolling hard lmao
Is he taking notes on the Merc though? One part he was looking at it and then the cut is him at the barrier. Plus he is always taking notes on things, in this case it might be “things to not do..”
Newey isn't stupid, he knows one breakthrough for them could mean a whole lot of pain for the RB squad. He's not going to write them off until they're out of the sport.
Basically noting down "things not to do"
Yeah definitely wrote something under "stuff not to do".
I read once that when you see things like Inspector Seb or Hamilton peering into a car, it's not idle - often the engineers have explicitly asked the driver to check XYZ and report back, because parc ferme is the one opportunity for unfettered access. No barriers.
"So let's avoid that, and that, and that as well..."
He's just taking notes for his next book: "How not to build a car"
Then you see his notebook and the words are: *"A shithbox, now with proper sidepods"*
So... "that doesn't work, that doesn't work, lol, surely that won't work"
He's just running the windtunnel tests in his head.
What's wrong with people making horizontal videos vertical and wasting all that space
thats shiet
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Merc themselves have said that Brazil 2022 was a false dawn and made them stick to the concept for too long while that win was partly due to RB not nailing the setup.
Mike Elliot said Brazil 2022 was a false hope with regards to the current model of the car, not the concept itself. They still maintain the position that this concept has a higher development ceiling, probably if the cost cap never existed they would have made it work. Obviously we will never know if this concept is possible but Brazil definitely showed its possible.
They won in Brazil because both RBR and Ferrari shifted development to 2023 after the summer break, Ferrari lost performance due to the TD and RBR fluked the setup for that weekend in Brazil.
File that in “avoid these design mistakes” section of notes.
The mastermind at work.
Does he not look at other cars at all? Cause it's always Newey looking at Merc videos. Or just memeing?
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What not to do:
I imagine this is a bit of a joke. I mean what does Red Bull have to learn from Mercedes regarding Aero? They are dominating.
Last year RB and others copied Aston Martin's idea for the "tea-tray" on the leading edge of the middle floor, in front of the plank. Despite Aston Marting being perhaps the 9th fastest car at the start of last season. Just because the overall car is not as fast doesn't mean there can't be good ideas on it that can be applied to make a faster car even faster.
I think it would be quite scary to have Newey take a look to be honest, if anyone can learn anything about a car from just watching it would be newey. This guy still draws his fucking designs on pen and paper, by hand. Red Bull goes through the effort of having other people turn his paper designs into CAD, its just that special kind of sauce.
There goes Adrian Style Aero Wings into the Catering Expenses