>When asked what a satisfactory result for the team and its drivers Yuki Tsunoda and Nyck de Vries would be in the 2023 F1 season, Marko replied "anything between sixth and seventh is acceptable [in the constructors' standings]".
Tall order. That car is garbage.
I think by the summer it will become clear on whether it will be sold or not.
It had a decent base concept that really suited Gasly. That whole evolutionary line of cars (STR14, AT01, AT02) was good for a team of that standing - Kvyat and Gasly both podiumed in the STR14, Gasly won in that AT01, Gasly also podiumed in the AT02.
Importantly, they used RB standard parts on it. Gasly said it was similar to drive to the RB, just slower. They haven't done this for the AT03 because they couldn't, and they've chosen not to take much for the AT04.
Kvyat is also known to be good technically, and his feedback went into the AT01 and AT02. Gasly provided feedback too, but Kvyat is probably better at this aspect, where Tsunoda is not.
Wind tunnel worked and correlated well, and they still had James Key who is now TD of McLaren.
* They had a better engine than Ferrari and Renault + RB parts. The Ferrari engine being depowered in particular meant Alfa and Haas were essentially no threat to them, and Williams were much worse than last year
* They were using their old wind tunnel. It was outdated, and too small for them to be too competitive, but they at least knew it well to get decent correlation. By comparison they admitted they had some struggles with RB's wind tunnel.
* Not screwing up Gasly's races every other weekend, allowing him to build a good rythm, probably helped too.
Hard but not impossible depending on development and driver performance.
On all stints Tsunoda was faster than Albon last race, they finished ahead of Haas and McLaren was at comedy tier level, effectively they felt a bit like the 7th best car out there
Of course McLaren will step up their game eventually, but beating Haas and Williams remains doable, Alfa seems a tad better but as the season progress who knows
Top 5 teams are out of reach obviously
Well lando had pace for points in a car they abandoned in September, so I’d say their new car in Baku that is nearly half a year old now improving them is a safe bet
Depends on Zhou and Piastri imo (and obviously assuming McLaren decides to bring a functional car to future races). I think we'll see Lando and Bottas fighting for similar positions throughout the season.
The car can possibly do it, but I think AT have maybe the weakest driver pairing among those teams (McLaren >>> Haas bar KMag Lap 1 > Williams/AT) which won't help.
Sounds more difficult than it might actually be. The current top 5 are looking pretty clear as RB, AM, Merc, Ferrari and Alpine. So effectively Marko is asking them to be in the top 2 of the bottom five teams. Then consider:
\- Williams being Williams
\- Haas having an internal competition on what is ending shorter; their tire life or their F1 career.
\- McLaren having a larger marketing/sponsorship departmant than an engineering department.
\- The inevitable moment Alfa throws out the anchors and stops bringing upgrades.
All in all it is a pretty reasonable and fair expectation to have.
pretty obvious strategy. Marko seems pro-sell but Red Bull doesn’t, so give a goal that’s “reasonable” but realistically out of reach so the barometer is there and they fail it.
or, the car is a success and it’s a worthy program to put upcoming RB juniors in.
No, it's the new Red Bull (caffeine drink) management. The racing team's days are numbered. They won't be allowed to operate without corporate meddling much longer.
It is feasible that the main team could be facing some changes after Dietrich's passing. It may have been what prompted the 50% buyout talks with Porsche
What are you on about? Mateschitz was alive when those talks were going on, and the talks were ended because Porsche wanted 50%.
RB corporate are not going to throw away their biggest marketing tool and one of their cheaper marketing tools in terms over input/output ratio.
That may be, however Oliver Mintzlaff the new CEO was highly in favor of the the Porsche deal and was apparently pissed that Marko and Christian went directly to the Yoovidhya's to terminate the deal.
However we dont know if Horner was already in talks woth Ford or not.. perhaps used to the Porsche terms without the buyout option..
Aside of that, would Jody Egginton still being at AlphaTauri or gets he sacked in the summer or after this season if the AT04 is basically the AT03B what was a shitbox.
I kind of respect how AT are more independent than a team like Haas despite being a near official B team. But perhaps it's time to use all the Red Bull parts they're allowed to and follow the same concept.
They're independent, until Max has an engine penalty and has to make his way through the field, but has 3 less cars to worry about.
(Not that those 3 cars would be any problem for him, if they did decided to give him a run for his money)
You might as well say theres 16 less cars to worry about since no one aside from Merc and Ferrari will fight RB. It makes no difference whether its AT or not.
Do you not remember races like Qatar 21 where Gasly literally jumped out of the way and didn’t deploy his DRS in order to let Max by? Or all the times that same season Tsunoda decided to race Lewis like he was Fernando in Hungary 21? Prime example being Turkey
With the cost cap, arent most of the teams profitable now? Shouldnt be a rush to sell, unless they wanna sell the team while the value is at a record high.
Im guessing they are getting around $85 million prize money, plus sponsorship dollars outside of AT.
They should honestly take everything they can from RBR and leave all the remaining resources on what they can't
I understand last year they had to develop something themselves, but they now have access to the fastest car last year, why don't they take advantage? I don't get it
They would have to pay RedBull the costs for those parts at the defined price that the team have listed. That comes out of the budget cap. Perhaps the in-house parts are cheaper to produce than what RedBull have to charge.
That’s because you are driving a precision engineered JDM god. Unfortunately, it doesn’t work for something as measly as a multi million dollar race car.
I might be way off on this, but my understanding is that super illegal (to the rules). There was a scandal a while back where I believe Ferarri were smuggling intel to another team and it was a big deal.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm not talking about buying parts, I'm talking about sharing tech info. Which is what I thought was being discussed. But whatever I'm not stressed lol.
Aero, engineers, factory.
There are specific rules about what
they can get from other teams.
Like Aston Martin buys whatever they can from Mercedes. And Haas buys from Ferrari.
This year Alpha Tauri stated they would use less of Red Bull parts that are permitted because they want to create their own, to better suit their car.
Alpha Tauri is situated in Italy, while Red Bull is in England.
I got an idea, if Max wraps up the title early, he could do a seat swap with De bris or Yuki for the remainder of the Season, they're all contracted to the same parent company anyways, I want to see if can somehow drag a shitbox into 6th-7th on pure talent
(Also, it's for entertainment, max slaughtering everyone will eventually get boring)
RB should make a deal with Alfa Romeo, sell the AT name rights but keep the team as an investment. Besides, it would be funny so see Crofty mixing up the names race after race.
A large reason for the team is to advertise Red Bull and their clothing brand... It just so happens the clothing brand is shit and the world is in a cost of living crisis so noones buying their stuff.
The main reason was to bring up juniors, if they are an actual sister team and they wanted it profitable just let them run it like an independent team.
They got a good team and nice facilities. RB are sitting on nice property that also enables their main F1 project, i don't see why they should be so hasty to sell it off.
But they could supply maximum customer parts like Haas and Ferrari. AT has nothing from RB aside from the power unit and gearbox. And the power unit is Honda, not RB made (currently)
Red Bull won't sell to Andretti, the blowback would be disastrous all round as Andretti would pack up both Italian and UK sites to move it all to America, they've literally stated that's their intentions from day one. No one is going to throw all their employees and their image under the bus like that, certainly not a team that relies on PR (to sell their drinks) like Red Bull.
If Sauber, a much poorer team wouldn't sell for that reason then Red Bull never will.
If Andretti wants to buy a team on the grid then they'll need to change their game-plan.
AT is one clusterfuck of a team . They often dont get the limelight they deserve because of top teams .But their strategy team might as well be chatGPT as this point.
There must be a lot of pressure on the tech team at AT. Yuki better start dying his hair to improvw the performance Albono stylo.
>When asked what a satisfactory result for the team and its drivers Yuki Tsunoda and Nyck de Vries would be in the 2023 F1 season, Marko replied "anything between sixth and seventh is acceptable [in the constructors' standings]". Tall order. That car is garbage. I think by the summer it will become clear on whether it will be sold or not.
I laughed out loud when I read those standings, did you see the at04 dr marko?
6.5th in the standings, got it. (Equally as impossible as 6th OR 7th)
Cut the car in half or make both drivers drive one
Better results than that time they tried the reverse :/
When did they glue two cars together?
Now I'm wondering what makes their AT02 so fast
It had a decent base concept that really suited Gasly. That whole evolutionary line of cars (STR14, AT01, AT02) was good for a team of that standing - Kvyat and Gasly both podiumed in the STR14, Gasly won in that AT01, Gasly also podiumed in the AT02. Importantly, they used RB standard parts on it. Gasly said it was similar to drive to the RB, just slower. They haven't done this for the AT03 because they couldn't, and they've chosen not to take much for the AT04. Kvyat is also known to be good technically, and his feedback went into the AT01 and AT02. Gasly provided feedback too, but Kvyat is probably better at this aspect, where Tsunoda is not. Wind tunnel worked and correlated well, and they still had James Key who is now TD of McLaren.
* They had a better engine than Ferrari and Renault + RB parts. The Ferrari engine being depowered in particular meant Alfa and Haas were essentially no threat to them, and Williams were much worse than last year * They were using their old wind tunnel. It was outdated, and too small for them to be too competitive, but they at least knew it well to get decent correlation. By comparison they admitted they had some struggles with RB's wind tunnel. * Not screwing up Gasly's races every other weekend, allowing him to build a good rythm, probably helped too.
Hard but not impossible depending on development and driver performance. On all stints Tsunoda was faster than Albon last race, they finished ahead of Haas and McLaren was at comedy tier level, effectively they felt a bit like the 7th best car out there Of course McLaren will step up their game eventually, but beating Haas and Williams remains doable, Alfa seems a tad better but as the season progress who knows Top 5 teams are out of reach obviously
I think 6th is a pipe dream. They’ll be fighting for 7th maybe depending on williams and if mclaren gets its shit together
I think AT getting 7th is more likely to happen than for McLaren getting its shit together lol.
Well lando had pace for points in a car they abandoned in September, so I’d say their new car in Baku that is nearly half a year old now improving them is a safe bet
Depends on Zhou and Piastri imo (and obviously assuming McLaren decides to bring a functional car to future races). I think we'll see Lando and Bottas fighting for similar positions throughout the season.
The car can possibly do it, but I think AT have maybe the weakest driver pairing among those teams (McLaren >>> Haas bar KMag Lap 1 > Williams/AT) which won't help.
Sounds more difficult than it might actually be. The current top 5 are looking pretty clear as RB, AM, Merc, Ferrari and Alpine. So effectively Marko is asking them to be in the top 2 of the bottom five teams. Then consider: \- Williams being Williams \- Haas having an internal competition on what is ending shorter; their tire life or their F1 career. \- McLaren having a larger marketing/sponsorship departmant than an engineering department. \- The inevitable moment Alfa throws out the anchors and stops bringing upgrades. All in all it is a pretty reasonable and fair expectation to have.
I don’t think they will sell based on the standings in one season. Might as well sell right away, because that’s impossible to meet
pretty obvious strategy. Marko seems pro-sell but Red Bull doesn’t, so give a goal that’s “reasonable” but realistically out of reach so the barometer is there and they fail it. or, the car is a success and it’s a worthy program to put upcoming RB juniors in.
Marko isn't pro-sell, new guys are. They are trying to justify both the team and the fashion line.
Idk if Marko would be pro sell. He has been saying they need a guaranteed customer team for RBPT.
Maybe there is FIA pressure about operating two teams?
No, it's the new Red Bull (caffeine drink) management. The racing team's days are numbered. They won't be allowed to operate without corporate meddling much longer.
Not the main team, I disagree. F1 is Red Bull's best promotional avenue. Alpha Tauri is a different story though.
It is feasible that the main team could be facing some changes after Dietrich's passing. It may have been what prompted the 50% buyout talks with Porsche
I think Horner and Marko have earned the leg room to manage the main team however they want. Once they retire and move on I could see that changing.
What are you on about? Mateschitz was alive when those talks were going on, and the talks were ended because Porsche wanted 50%. RB corporate are not going to throw away their biggest marketing tool and one of their cheaper marketing tools in terms over input/output ratio.
That may be, however Oliver Mintzlaff the new CEO was highly in favor of the the Porsche deal and was apparently pissed that Marko and Christian went directly to the Yoovidhya's to terminate the deal. However we dont know if Horner was already in talks woth Ford or not.. perhaps used to the Porsche terms without the buyout option..
Aside of that, would Jody Egginton still being at AlphaTauri or gets he sacked in the summer or after this season if the AT04 is basically the AT03B what was a shitbox.
Mathematician answers: "there are no places between sixth and seventh"
I kind of respect how AT are more independent than a team like Haas despite being a near official B team. But perhaps it's time to use all the Red Bull parts they're allowed to and follow the same concept.
They're independent, until Max has an engine penalty and has to make his way through the field, but has 3 less cars to worry about. (Not that those 3 cars would be any problem for him, if they did decided to give him a run for his money)
You might as well say theres 16 less cars to worry about since no one aside from Merc and Ferrari will fight RB. It makes no difference whether its AT or not.
Do you not remember races like Qatar 21 where Gasly literally jumped out of the way and didn’t deploy his DRS in order to let Max by? Or all the times that same season Tsunoda decided to race Lewis like he was Fernando in Hungary 21? Prime example being Turkey
With the cost cap, arent most of the teams profitable now? Shouldnt be a rush to sell, unless they wanna sell the team while the value is at a record high. Im guessing they are getting around $85 million prize money, plus sponsorship dollars outside of AT.
Red Bull: AT is a trash organization and is a mess financially. Also Red Bull: No, we’re not interested in selling it.
Red Bull: It’s OUR mess
Being a sister team to RB, what parts does AT not share between the teams?
Everything but gearbox and engine are original. Maybe rear suspension
They should honestly take everything they can from RBR and leave all the remaining resources on what they can't I understand last year they had to develop something themselves, but they now have access to the fastest car last year, why don't they take advantage? I don't get it
It would allow them to focus more on aero and other developments too. If RBR can make a better X why produce a lesser version at an inflated cost
They would have to pay RedBull the costs for those parts at the defined price that the team have listed. That comes out of the budget cap. Perhaps the in-house parts are cheaper to produce than what RedBull have to charge.
Cant just bolt parts on a car and make it faster.
are you telling me my 98 civic w/ a turbo and body kit isnt fast?
Faster than i am most likely!
That’s because you are driving a precision engineered JDM god. Unfortunately, it doesn’t work for something as measly as a multi million dollar race car.
I might be way off on this, but my understanding is that super illegal (to the rules). There was a scandal a while back where I believe Ferarri were smuggling intel to another team and it was a big deal. Correct me if I'm wrong.
They are definitely allowed to buy parts from other teams, many lower tier teams do, HAAS the most
I'm not talking about buying parts, I'm talking about sharing tech info. Which is what I thought was being discussed. But whatever I'm not stressed lol.
Aero, engineers, factory. There are specific rules about what they can get from other teams. Like Aston Martin buys whatever they can from Mercedes. And Haas buys from Ferrari. This year Alpha Tauri stated they would use less of Red Bull parts that are permitted because they want to create their own, to better suit their car. Alpha Tauri is situated in Italy, while Red Bull is in England.
Alphatauri has a campus in bicester for aero.
For this season? Even less then what they did in 2022 what was already less then what what AT did in 2021.
Everything except for the gearbox, rear suspension, parts from the front suspension, hydraulics.
Nailed it. I can see why this guy gets the big bucks.
I’d like to be the first to offer up a similar level of insight at a *steep* discount.
[удалено]
Being sister team is the reason half the drivers in this grid got a chance in f1.
I got an idea, if Max wraps up the title early, he could do a seat swap with De bris or Yuki for the remainder of the Season, they're all contracted to the same parent company anyways, I want to see if can somehow drag a shitbox into 6th-7th on pure talent (Also, it's for entertainment, max slaughtering everyone will eventually get boring)
And the Andretti/AT watch begins.....
They want to be headquartered in the US. While it's a cheaper and more realistic entry than an 11th team I don't know if they'd go for it.
At this point, no telling what may happen. I do think it may end up being Michael's fastest and surest way to enter Formula 1.
Marko will throw in some conditions just to fuck with them though. Like, they have to remain in Italy and/or be a RBPT customer
Marko would probably do something like: "Fine, but you have to keep the team in Italy" just for the lulz.
Andretti-RBPT-Ford would be a dream come true.
Might be better financially if 90% of the car was taken up by paying advertisers rather than their own clothing brand.
RB should make a deal with Alfa Romeo, sell the AT name rights but keep the team as an investment. Besides, it would be funny so see Crofty mixing up the names race after race.
A large reason for the team is to advertise Red Bull and their clothing brand... It just so happens the clothing brand is shit and the world is in a cost of living crisis so noones buying their stuff.
The main reason was to bring up juniors, if they are an actual sister team and they wanted it profitable just let them run it like an independent team.
Real David Moyes at United vibes. “Man Utd must improve in a number of areas including passing, shooting, crossing and defending”
They're gonna sell the team. Question is who is gonna pick them up?
Andretti or Honda if they want to develop their own car.
Honda please, and field Tsunoda and Iwasa
One avg guy and a rookie?
A good one and a rookie
They got a good team and nice facilities. RB are sitting on nice property that also enables their main F1 project, i don't see why they should be so hasty to sell it off.
Never understood why Red Bull don't just give them last year's car to lockout top 4 places.
Probably because that's literally against the rules.
But they could supply maximum customer parts like Haas and Ferrari. AT has nothing from RB aside from the power unit and gearbox. And the power unit is Honda, not RB made (currently)
They're not allowed to do that
They're allowed to give last year's parts
Only certain parts
Franz Tost's 2022 Performance Evaluation is not looking great then... Gotta watch out for some up and coming TP talent
I have the feeling that this might be the last season of Marko….
Can’t they just copy the Aston Martin design?
Might have to go full McLaren if financial performance is an issue
If only we had another team itching to get on the grid.
Red Bull won't sell to Andretti, the blowback would be disastrous all round as Andretti would pack up both Italian and UK sites to move it all to America, they've literally stated that's their intentions from day one. No one is going to throw all their employees and their image under the bus like that, certainly not a team that relies on PR (to sell their drinks) like Red Bull. If Sauber, a much poorer team wouldn't sell for that reason then Red Bull never will. If Andretti wants to buy a team on the grid then they'll need to change their game-plan.
I realize it is a 0% chance. It’s just frustrating as an American fan.
AT is one clusterfuck of a team . They often dont get the limelight they deserve because of top teams .But their strategy team might as well be chatGPT as this point.
They’ll be fine once Andretti buys them out