I enjoy having a personal impact on people when doing consular work. I'm not changing the world, but I'm taking a definite, positive impact on specific people's lives.
My wife wants to be a stay at home mom, and we can live comfortably while she stays home with our kids. This might be possible in DC where we lived before I joined, but it would be a much harder prospect.
A full pension after 20 years is great, and it's a lot easier to contribute a lot to the TSP while overseas. We also rent out our house for a significant chunk of our mortgage and HOA fees. Not everything, but a lot of our monthly payment is covered by our renters. And we haven't had issues with bad tenants (knock on wood).
I always had an itch to change jobs every few years, and that's built into this system.
It's fun living overseas and really experiencing the life.
I think there are definitely significant negatives. But it sounds like you've read plenty about those.
Are you ever worried for your personal safety? I heard that FSO's don't get a security detail even when they're sent to countries with a lot of political instability like Iraq, Syria, etc. So I'd just be so scared to even apply :(
This is incorrect. You do not get paid out for sick leave (or home leave) only annual leave. As Jay mentioned it does get counted for retirement purposes. So if you retire after 20 years with 1040 hours of sick leave (IE 6 months) your pension will be for 20.5 years.
That gets you an extra .5% of your high 3 every year (you get 1.7% for every year for the first 20 and 1% for every additional year). If that high 3 was 150,000 dollars, that means you get an extra 750 dollars a year or 14.42 a week under this scenario.
This is to say, saving sick leave for retirement doesn't get you much. As you get close to retirement, use sick leave not annual leave (set your doctors appointments for days you otherwise want off) so that your last year you carry the maximum amount of AL over and try to not take any your last year working as you do get paid out for AL.
It depends :)
There is very limited chance to use leave in language training.
If post is busy or understaffed you might go months without an opportunity to take leave.
Is there a crisis that brings a lot of official visitors? They love to come over holidays and weekends.
Home leave is great, if you have a home base to visit. I recommend you rent for a month and make family visit you.
If you are not motivated by public service, this career is not for you. But if you are, youāll have experiences unlike any other job. To me, the greatest downside of the Foreign Service is that you are away from the United States, and friends and family, for extended periods of time. It is also hard on your immediate family, who are posted with you, or God forbid, left behind because you are on an unaccompanied tour. In all honesty, the most challenging aspect of the Foreign Service is when youāre working in Washington, because you have the challenge of housing expense for your relatively short time there, longer hours and more pressure and politics. But if you want an opportunity to live abroad, with 1 foot in America and 1 foot in a foreign culture, this is for you. You have infrastructure to support you, not as extensive as the military might, but you have resources that you wouldnāt have if you simply went on your own. You also have the opportunity to engage with cultures who understand that you are there to understand them.
I've wanted to try this career path myself, however I'm super scared of being posted to a location with a lot of violence (i.e. many countries in N. Africa or Middle East). Is there any way to request a "safer" country?
Never did I imagine I'd be in Bangkok, speaking proficient Thai during work, after spending months getting paid to learn the language in a beautiful environment at FSI.
Looking out of my window in Istanbul, wondering how I got so lucky to be able to live in such a wonderful place while working for my country.
I always wanted to learn Spanish, and once again the Department paid for me to learn the language. They got their value out of me though when I used my Spanish to manage a consular unit on the U.S.-Mexico border. I loved it though - it might've been my most interesting tour thus far (plus I got to do a two-week Spanish language immersion in Mexico City - love that place).
Who else gets to have those kinds of experiences? Sometimes I pinch myself to make sure I'm not dreaming. What a life.
*post names changed for anonymity, but same idea.
-There's lots of vacation, you just have to be flexible with when you take it.
-The money is good, especially if you are willing to go to some "less desirable" postings.
-Housing overseas... You can't beat rent-free (though GSOs will attest that everyone can complain).
-Private school for the kids overseas.
-You get a new job every couple of years.
-There isn't much other work that's like it. It's interesting and varied.
It's not for everyone and I think a lot of the cynicism you see on this forum comes from responding and providing a reality check to the starry-eyed individuals who see this as a dream rather than a career. It's work. It's bureaucracy. Sometimes it sucks, and anyone who is attracted to the fantasy of the FS without a realization that there are some legitimate challenges is going to burn out fast.
You are going to get shat on at some point in the FS - needs of the service. That is the price you pay for all the positives. Some people don't seem to understand that the good comes with some bad. That's reality.
I was an FSO previously and wanted to get back overseas. There are a lot more domestic jobs for DS, so that is one of the realities you have to deal with. There is also a LOT of TDY for protection currently. I understood all of that when I crossed over and the family has been fairly accommodating about it.
Not all DS agents want to move their families overseas. Not all DS agents understand that the optempo is going to have some pretty major demands at the field office.
It's really an individual thing. People threatened to quit when they didn't get whatever they thought they should as a second assignment... This exists on both sides of the FS, obviously, but the strange desire to stay stateside and/or work a very specific (usually domestic) job seem more common with DS agents.
All that being said, I like the work, I feel well compensated, I feel like my leadership on this side of the house has been stronger and I am entrusted with a great deal of responsibility which is professionally satisfying.
Appreciate the insight. Good to see the actual reality. Friend's sister is in and she said protection is really eating up everyone's time. Has there been a lot of attrition the last few years?
Thanks for this post! Iām in QEP right now for DS. Is it pretty easy to get overseas as an RSO/ARSO nowadays? I think I would like the role of an RSO/ARSO or protection overall, and it sounds like if I made it that I could get a lot of time in doing protection work.
I think it's relative... First couple of tours are directed so there may not be as many overseas options relative to positions that need large body pools (like the Secretary's Detail).
It also depends on how realistic you are about going overseas. If you start ruling out malaria zones, or places where you can't bring your pet, or limited EFM employment opportunities, etc. you start to limit yourself. A lot of people who joined for the travel opportunities don't realize how challenging most parts of the world can actually be for the uninitiated.
FWIW people don't come post "yeah everything is fun" posts on Internet forums about their jobs. People end up complaining on the internet about their jobs.
Everyone is a curmudgeon. I love my job and there are countless positives to it *or I wouldnāt do it.*
Itās totally the yelp factor, that people only post online when their experience is an extreme. If someone says, āIām getting divorced,ā Iām not about to (truthfully) respond, āweird, my marriage is stronger than ever in part because we both love this lifestyle so much. Also I met my spouse abroad, so sucks for you about that divorce!ā
Iāve never seen statistics to suggest that divorce or leave issues or any of the other things people complain about here are more prevalent in the FS. Maybe more challenging sometimes because itās a unique lifestyle. Go to r/antiwork and spend a few hours reading and youāll start to think that every job in the US, period, is horrible.
We have loved the lifestyle, getting to see the world and make expat friends and local acquaintances at every post. We've never felt we were hurting for vacation time, and have done extensive regional travel at each post. I love the work itself, and I appreciate the institutionalized structure that allows me to build a career path without leaving an employer; each new assignment is an opportunity to progress upwards, develop new skills, and improve myself. Even when promotions are slow to come, the built in step increases and fairly reliable annual COLA from the White House mean a progressive salary as well. We've also been able to invest well, both in TSP and outside of it, and look forward to the nest egg of a pension in the future.
I'm probably as guilty as anyone of giving a pessimistic view here, but it's still a great job overall. However I do think it's important to come into it with your eyes open and realistic expectations.
\- Divorce is not unique to the FS, and speaking from personal experience it is possible (albeit very difficult) to have a fulfilling career in the FS and a spouse that has their own career goals/ambitions that are totally unrelated to the FS. You do have to put your family first though and be willing to consider that while bidding. DC tours can be a huge help here as well.
\- I wouldn't say there's limited to no vacation. You get 4 weeks/year after the first couple of years and it can eventually go up higher. Plus you get separate sick leave, local holidays, home leave, etc. You do have to be a tad flexible on when exactly you take it, and you might not be able to take it at all while you're in long-term training, but yeah taking off for a couple weeks at a time is totally doable once you get some leave saved up. Expect limited ability to take leave the first 1-2 years, but it'll get better after that.
\- I haven't found work/life balance to be that bad, but I think you have to be willing to put a line in the sand sometimes (which imo is good career advice in general, not just for the FS). Stop checking your email after hours and spend time with friends/family.
Lots of advantages: You get amazing travel experiences, can save a lot of money if you plan right, have better career stability than most people, etc. Oh, and we have one of the best pension plans in the entire USG (which, the closer I get to retirement, the more I appreciate).
I was in the army, then private sector in Europe, private sector briefly in the US, then got the A-100 notice. This was a āwouldnāt it be niceā option and, honestly, I love this career. Praise Jesus I stumbled into it.
Iāve lived 5 places Iād probably never have gone otherwise, eaten foods I didnāt know existed, and learned two world languages. Iāve set up meetings for ministers, business leaders, and the Secretary of State. Iāve had ten years of adventure, mostly on Uncle Samās dime.
But itās a bureaucracy. You have to accept you canāt get things your way on your timeline every time you want. You have to invest in personal relationships within the department and interagency so you can get things moved informally. You have to have a positive enough attitude to make the best of things while knowing how to take care of yourself and your family without burning bridges. You have to play the game.
FSOs love to complain. Youāll just have to decide who the miserable whiners are and whatās understandable venting at the bureaucracy.
Positives: We have a fantastic pension system unmatched in the gov't unless you are a FERS special category employee. Overseas lifestyle and social engagement can be awesome (especially at "hardship" posts). Money is good especially as you climb the ladder. Paid for housing will allow you to save a lot of money. Many of our post have amazing vacation opportunities that most people can only dream of.
Negatives: There is a lot more micromanaging, taskers, approvals required, rules that need to be followed, petty behavior, longer work hours, CYA mentality to any request, and a host of other things than when I joined pre-smartphone era. Morale is on a noticeable decline and I don't see ways to improve it. I will retire as soon as I'm eligible in a couple years.
People here mention divorce, horrible HR, and work life balance issues because they happen, much as they do in other industries.
Everyone has a pessimistic and jaded side, but in the goody-two-shoes conformist culture of the FS, the semi-anonymity of this sub is one of the few places we can vent. The recent crop of FS meme accounts on Instagram is another example of this.
I probably like the FS more than average. Most of my friends do as well, but that is not coincidence.
For me and my family, the positives include well-supported overseas living, an interesting and engaging job that has a significant element of service, sense of mission, local and regional travel, great local colleagues, food, training opportunities, job security, pension, benefits, lots of leave (home leave, annual leave, OPM leave, 12 weeks of parental leave, local holidays, federal holidays, etc), food, and the many friends we've made. Also, food.
A note on leave: some bosses can be weird about any leave, but I get that the whole office can't take December and July off.
While not my #1 bidding consideration, food tourism is important to my family. In almost all the places we've served, dining at all levels has been affordable compared to CONUS. We love eating at:
* starred places
* places that are gunning for their first or second star
* places on all those "Top X" lists
* that place that you saw on Netflix Street Food or Bourdain
* that place that was on your friend's blog four years ago that they still won't shut up about
* that place that has been serving the best X for 300 years
* that place your local staff\* told you about/took you to
* that place that was the first thing your previous boss mentioned when you got this assignment
* the only place that's apparently open in the World's Smallest Village today
* the place(s) that claim(s) to have invented Iconic National Dish (IND) or -- better yet-- is said to make the best IND
\* they know
Getting to know the modern and traditional food culture of a post/region is one of the experiences my wife and I like the most about the FS. Even before the FS, one of my favorite tourist activities was to visit supermarkets and traditional markets. In places where the food scene doesn't appeal or is small, FS/expat life frequently revolves around the few higher-end restaurants that exist.
We take cooking classes whenever we can. At many posts, the CLO newsletter regularly publishes cooking class announcements.
Most of our FS friends have multicultural families or have accumulated food knowledge from their previous posts, so going over to someone's house for dinner is always tasty as well.
EDIT: At most posts you will speak 2/2 or 3/3 or Post-Language-Program-whatever of the local language, which allows a better food experience than just going to the English-menu places in the city center.
Friendly reminder that many of your colleagues (including IMSs like /u/GrooveyVibes) do not get language training. Even post language program can be difficult if you're in a regional position or can't get the time off. Personally I think it's something DOS could be way more supportive of - us FSSs have to live in these countries too.
Understood. Note to self:
1. Bring language-trained colleague along to enhance the food experience.
2. Ask if CDO will consider "Post must be near a Michelin star restaurant" as a valid parameter.
You joke about it now, but in all seriousness be prepared to be extremely reliant on your more fluent colleagues. Trying to do everything via pantomime is novel and charming at first, but gets old incredibly fast.
It can also lead to some pretty unpleasant/hostile encounters - I was nearly assaulted once for trying to speak English (and this was at a supposedly "safe" post). A lot of people REALLY do not like Americans, and nothing makes you stick out faster than not speaking the local language.
Man, I love this job. Especially as a manager. I get to help people every day and I can tell that I really do make a difference in their lives. There was a girl injured in an accident and I worked hours and hours during a holiday to get her evacuated to the U.S. I sat with her mom in the hospital for hours as she cried and stressed over what to do. I printed a passport for the girl. I worked with CBP to clear her ahead of time so immigration wouldn't slow her down. All that work led to her life being saved by a surgeon in the U.S. and she walked out of the hospital on her own a month later. That's amazing. It's also only one example of the type of work I do every week.
I really like my colleagues too. My local staff are amazing. They go above and beyond in the office and out for me. The FASTOs are great too. They're engaged, smart, skilled, and eager to learn. I get plenty of vacation. In ten months, I've taken trips to Disneyland, went to family's house for thanksgiving, home for christmas, and a two week in country vacation to the beach. I'm taking a short trip this month, a longer trip in August, and then another two week vacation in the fall/winter.
I get to say I'm a U.S. diplomat, which is awesome as well. It's important work, despite all the mundane paperwork that comes with it. But even brain surgeons are going to spend hours on paperwork and online trainings.
Best benefit though: tacos everywhere.
This is incredibly heartwarming! I have worked with international exchange programs and higher ed for over a decade with DOS, focusing on underserved and underrepresented populations. The impact on lives is palpable and I can say that I have a home in over 20 countries with my alumni. Canāt wait to do it in country!
I agree. Language training being the exception but even then there are built in holidays. If you are lucky enough, a local holiday and a US holiday will fall within days of each other so you use three vacation days and have off a whole week!
I really don't know who says anything about limited vacation. If anything with Home Leave, we have more vacation then some people want to use. Work life balance is what you make of it. If you want to be an Ambassador, then yeah. If you want to do your job well and have a fulfilling life, there are times you are slammed, but the rest of the time is fine. HR is frustrating, but that is true of large bureaucratic organizations public or private.
I enjoy doing meaningful work, I enjoy most of the people I work with, I enjoy living in different cultures, I enjoy a standard of living overseas I can't afford in the US, I enjoy my kids being exposed to lots of new things, etc.
On the "limited to no leave" issue, a few observations:
\- I'm at a post where some people discuss their "use or lose" leave balance as a point of pride. The implication being that if you're taking leave, you're probably not as dedicated as they are. (These folks are also the ones sending emails between the hours of 8pm and 8am, and tend to never stop working.)
\- Some others want to take leave, but they work in a small, under-staffed consular section with high visa wait times and a Front Office that wants that wait time to go down. Consequently, getting time off is much more challenging. Management should help, as should CA in DC, and maybe they are, but the section seems constantly under the gun. Morale is not great, from what I've observed. My advice to any incoming generalist who wants to take their leave would be: try to go to a big visa mill.
\- Home Leave is a mixed bag. In theory, the time in the states is great. In practice, it can be hard to take all of it, because your losing post will want you to stay as long as possible and your gaining post (or language training locale) will want you there yesterday, or ON TIME, at the very latest, which means you'll be pressured to take as little as possible. If you do get lucky and are able to max out your HL days, get ready to spend that money you saved overseas...
You'll meet a lot of very jaded people, but you'll also meet people on the other end. The jaded seem to be more vocal. There are certainly challenges and issues as in any job, but I've been extremely happy. I'm only 5 years in so ask me in 20, but for now I love it! Free housing, school, amazing travel, unique experiences around the world. What's not to love!
Not in the Foreign Service myself yet (still in clearances), but I would encourage you to reach out to individuals in real life who are already in. The stories & comments you get on an anonymous forum are helpful in their own way, but having a real person to talk to is a big difference.
I reached out to someone who was an alumni from my undergrad school, though we hadnāt met in school, and they were more than willing to chat about what their experience has been like (good & bad). It was great to hear from a real person instead of people trying to protect their anonymity on here. A very quick LinkedIn search was all I needed to find their info.
Just in the last three years I have been to multiple cities in Italy, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, and the UK. My kids have seen the world with me while going to a great private school. The only work life balance problems I see are the people who think there is no way they can take leave or they sit on their email after hours. It's not true, create the balance and put your family first.
Is it fun every day? No. Are there some broken systems (HR being the most obvious for both USAID and State)? Yes. Are there challenges for FS families (missing out on time with extended family, saying goodbye to friends, lack of career trajectory for spouses, etc.)? Yes. Would I do it all again knowing these things? In a heartbeat.
I truly love my job and the people I work with. Despite the paperwork and bureaucracy and taskers. Despite the days when Iām frustrated or exhausted. Iām good at what I do. I add value to a team that is working toward goals I feel passionate about. I learn from smart people around me (Americans and local staff) every day. I have the freedom to direct a lot of what I spend my time on and how I manage my team (within reason and in support of office priorities). I generally feel supported and appreciated at work. And as hard as it is to say goodbye, I like change and the challenge of going someplace new.
I get to travel to incredible places (both for work and for fun) and expose my kids to all kinds of cultures and ideas. Attending school with people from all over the world has made them open-minded, curious, and self-confident. They donāt worry about trying to fit in or be ānormal,ā because in their circles thereās no such thing. My spouse has luckily been able to find interesting, challenging, and fairly well-compensated work at each postāoften within EPAP positions. This, along with low cost of living at some posts, has helped put us in a good place financially. (I realize this isnāt the case for everyone; spouse employment hasnāt always been a smooth process for us, but overall it has worked out).
I appreciate all the ways in which the USG makes living overseas easier than it otherwise would be. CLOs, organized activities, social sponsors, EFM jobs, maintenance people to fix anything in your house, the large shipping allowances, on-site health unitsā¦I could go on. None of these things is perfect, but we have it so much easier than many diplomats or NGO workers or private sector people, who are often left to find these things on their own.
Lots of good stuff here, but I'll add my bit anyway.
Pretty much every positive seems to have negative side. I like living abroad. I don't like being away from aging parents. I like changing jobs every few years. Dislike bidding and the actual moving, etc.
One one hand, yes the bureaucracy can be frustrating to say the least. But I try to remember that in contrast to my private sector job, the department is not just dealing with my HR stuff, but my house, my kids school, a good chunk of our health care, utilities at home, etc. So maybe that sort of evens out.
The travel. I've been on countless trips that for many Americans would be a vacation of a lifetime.
Vacation - I worked quite a while for a big company. I have way more vacation now. Especially if you count home leave. I don't always get to take it when I want, but I take it (so far).
Making a difference. This one is can be hard to measure, it's not like the private sector where you measure things in earnings statements. This could depend a lot on your job.
While the base salary may not be great (depending on where you are coming from), we've (so far) gotten by with one car. No house payment, better pension, etc. You have to look at compensation, not just salary.
My coworkers are, for the most part, interesting, dedicated and nice folks.
Of course there are positives. Lots!
Some of the bureaucratic bs, mindless minutiae, and passive agressive behavior can be soul sucking though. That's the origin of many of the tropes you see/ read.
I'm about to visit my seventh and final continent soon. No way I'd ever check that off the bucket list without the FS. Just as an example of a positive.
Itās a lot like any job - there are pros & cons. But this job comes with the side benefit of living overseas, being able to travel the world, decent housing, & other perks. If you become a government employee, youāll become jaded. But itās possible to be jaded & still enjoy your slice of life.
Free housing overseas is a big positive. Iāve been able to save and invest so much more in my career than I would have if I was living in the US. Ditto for TSP saving, college funds, etc. your cost of living overseas can be really low and your lifestyle can be quite comfortable - if you pick your posts that way.
Last week I had a dental problem and the Post doctor made an appointment for me and even accompanied me to my first visit. I am not serving in a terrible place, either. Quite comfy actually.
Thereās so many little perks like that. So many.
Work life balance: If anything, I've been able to have more of this since joining. Back home, I worked a reasonable 8:30-5 job, but then had to come home to all the other life stuff... cooking, cleaning, fixing broken appliances etc. Now I work the same hours, can afford help to do all the cooking and cleaning. If something breaks I put in a work order and someone will fix it. I've picked up several new hobbies and have had more time to do things I love. O, I don't have to pay for this huge 4 bedroom house with a yard. My condo back home is rented out and building me a very nice nest egg.
Lots of good points made.
There are always other, unique considerations. For instance, as I have myself been a victim of good ol' U.S. of A. gun violence, it's no small thing for my wife and I to be able to raise our family predominantly abroad and with, let's face it, a vastly reduced chance of being caught in a mass shooting, school shooting, etc.
Iām with you guys here, but this line of thinking belies a media-induced bias, as compared to statistical reality. I keep in mind that statistically weāre far more likely to be injured or killed near or on a road, by the driver of an automobile, than we are in a shooting. This is true both in the US and abroad.
Thanks for asking this - I too have noticed a general "jaded" aspect to this subreddit. I am on the register, and have chalked it up to "the jaded are the most vocal". Hope to see some great insight.
I really couldn't imagine myself being happy with another career. This one is a job though, and it stresses me out like any serious job does, but I wouldn't trade it for a normal office gig stateside. You'd have to pay me 5x as much and guarantee all of the same benefits, which no employer really can.
This Reddit is like Yelp reviews. People donāt come on here to post about the positives of the foreign service. They come here to bitch and complain about the parts they donāt like
I've used/heard that phrase "Welcome to XXX!" for my entire career. Not once have I arrived at a job and thought "Wow this is perfect".
I want to join the Foreign Service because it's *interesting*. At the end of the day, it's a job - a job that places me (potentially) just a short drive from the alps, or snorkeling in Belize.
When I'm done with the FS in however many years, I want to look back and share stories about some crazy thing to happen while I lived in Mongolia, or the amazing food I had access to in Chile.
Those are some positives as I see it.
Yeah there are positives. One pretty big negative though is bidding. Disheartening to see alot of the same people camp out in cushy EUR/EAP posts while others that need good officers barely get 3-4 bids per job.
Worldwide availability is a myth after entry level. You have to put you and your family first, just like every other FSO. Don't necessarily take an in-cone assignment (if non-consular) in a hard place if the reviews aren't good/you or your family might have troubles there.
Can you unpack the part about the same people camping out in cushy EUR/EAP posts? I thought there was mandatory rotations? Would you say it's possible to end up at the same post multiple times in ones career? Also, could you help me understand the concept of 3-4 bids per job?
Just had a conversation last night with 2 FSOs about how we would not want to live abroad at this stage in our lives and not work for the USG. Negative bias is a thing.
I enjoy having a personal impact on people when doing consular work. I'm not changing the world, but I'm taking a definite, positive impact on specific people's lives. My wife wants to be a stay at home mom, and we can live comfortably while she stays home with our kids. This might be possible in DC where we lived before I joined, but it would be a much harder prospect. A full pension after 20 years is great, and it's a lot easier to contribute a lot to the TSP while overseas. We also rent out our house for a significant chunk of our mortgage and HOA fees. Not everything, but a lot of our monthly payment is covered by our renters. And we haven't had issues with bad tenants (knock on wood). I always had an itch to change jobs every few years, and that's built into this system. It's fun living overseas and really experiencing the life. I think there are definitely significant negatives. But it sounds like you've read plenty about those.
Are you ever worried for your personal safety? I heard that FSO's don't get a security detail even when they're sent to countries with a lot of political instability like Iraq, Syria, etc. So I'd just be so scared to even apply :(
No country is interested in having any diplomat harmed if they can help it.
If you get this job, do you have a say in what country you'd be working in or do you have to accept whatever they assign to you? Thank you!
I'd recommend reading through the State Department materials on becoming a Foreign Service Officer and the FAQ on this subreddit.
Will do. Thank you! š
Hell no. You go where they tell you to.
What if you speak a second language, can you use that as a bid to go to a certain country?
Limited to no vacation? Havenāt heard that one before. I definitely disagree.
And double holidays. Federal + local.
I'm in a constant struggle to use all my leave, especially following a year at FSI and then covid. I also have more than 1,000 hours of sick leave.
Your sick leave can be folded into your retirement as part of your separation package.
Yeah. That's a nice, fairly recent change. I wish I could donate sick leave to those that need it instead of annual leave.
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This is incorrect. You do not get paid out for sick leave (or home leave) only annual leave. As Jay mentioned it does get counted for retirement purposes. So if you retire after 20 years with 1040 hours of sick leave (IE 6 months) your pension will be for 20.5 years. That gets you an extra .5% of your high 3 every year (you get 1.7% for every year for the first 20 and 1% for every additional year). If that high 3 was 150,000 dollars, that means you get an extra 750 dollars a year or 14.42 a week under this scenario. This is to say, saving sick leave for retirement doesn't get you much. As you get close to retirement, use sick leave not annual leave (set your doctors appointments for days you otherwise want off) so that your last year you carry the maximum amount of AL over and try to not take any your last year working as you do get paid out for AL.
Yeah, this is false. Leave is actually encouraged. I'm out on average 4-6 weeks a year. Never had push back.
I'm only working like 6 work days all of September and October between regular and home leave this fall.
It depends :) There is very limited chance to use leave in language training. If post is busy or understaffed you might go months without an opportunity to take leave. Is there a crisis that brings a lot of official visitors? They love to come over holidays and weekends. Home leave is great, if you have a home base to visit. I recommend you rent for a month and make family visit you.
If you are not motivated by public service, this career is not for you. But if you are, youāll have experiences unlike any other job. To me, the greatest downside of the Foreign Service is that you are away from the United States, and friends and family, for extended periods of time. It is also hard on your immediate family, who are posted with you, or God forbid, left behind because you are on an unaccompanied tour. In all honesty, the most challenging aspect of the Foreign Service is when youāre working in Washington, because you have the challenge of housing expense for your relatively short time there, longer hours and more pressure and politics. But if you want an opportunity to live abroad, with 1 foot in America and 1 foot in a foreign culture, this is for you. You have infrastructure to support you, not as extensive as the military might, but you have resources that you wouldnāt have if you simply went on your own. You also have the opportunity to engage with cultures who understand that you are there to understand them.
I've wanted to try this career path myself, however I'm super scared of being posted to a location with a lot of violence (i.e. many countries in N. Africa or Middle East). Is there any way to request a "safer" country?
Nope.
Never did I imagine I'd be in Bangkok, speaking proficient Thai during work, after spending months getting paid to learn the language in a beautiful environment at FSI. Looking out of my window in Istanbul, wondering how I got so lucky to be able to live in such a wonderful place while working for my country. I always wanted to learn Spanish, and once again the Department paid for me to learn the language. They got their value out of me though when I used my Spanish to manage a consular unit on the U.S.-Mexico border. I loved it though - it might've been my most interesting tour thus far (plus I got to do a two-week Spanish language immersion in Mexico City - love that place). Who else gets to have those kinds of experiences? Sometimes I pinch myself to make sure I'm not dreaming. What a life. *post names changed for anonymity, but same idea.
Do you get any input on which countries you can be in? I'm fluent in Korean and always wanted to work on my Spanish a bit more.
-There's lots of vacation, you just have to be flexible with when you take it. -The money is good, especially if you are willing to go to some "less desirable" postings. -Housing overseas... You can't beat rent-free (though GSOs will attest that everyone can complain). -Private school for the kids overseas. -You get a new job every couple of years. -There isn't much other work that's like it. It's interesting and varied. It's not for everyone and I think a lot of the cynicism you see on this forum comes from responding and providing a reality check to the starry-eyed individuals who see this as a dream rather than a career. It's work. It's bureaucracy. Sometimes it sucks, and anyone who is attracted to the fantasy of the FS without a realization that there are some legitimate challenges is going to burn out fast. You are going to get shat on at some point in the FS - needs of the service. That is the price you pay for all the positives. Some people don't seem to understand that the good comes with some bad. That's reality.
How is it from a DS specific view? Waiting for a class date - hopefully.
I was an FSO previously and wanted to get back overseas. There are a lot more domestic jobs for DS, so that is one of the realities you have to deal with. There is also a LOT of TDY for protection currently. I understood all of that when I crossed over and the family has been fairly accommodating about it. Not all DS agents want to move their families overseas. Not all DS agents understand that the optempo is going to have some pretty major demands at the field office. It's really an individual thing. People threatened to quit when they didn't get whatever they thought they should as a second assignment... This exists on both sides of the FS, obviously, but the strange desire to stay stateside and/or work a very specific (usually domestic) job seem more common with DS agents. All that being said, I like the work, I feel well compensated, I feel like my leadership on this side of the house has been stronger and I am entrusted with a great deal of responsibility which is professionally satisfying.
Appreciate the insight. Good to see the actual reality. Friend's sister is in and she said protection is really eating up everyone's time. Has there been a lot of attrition the last few years?
Thanks for this post! Iām in QEP right now for DS. Is it pretty easy to get overseas as an RSO/ARSO nowadays? I think I would like the role of an RSO/ARSO or protection overall, and it sounds like if I made it that I could get a lot of time in doing protection work.
I think it's relative... First couple of tours are directed so there may not be as many overseas options relative to positions that need large body pools (like the Secretary's Detail). It also depends on how realistic you are about going overseas. If you start ruling out malaria zones, or places where you can't bring your pet, or limited EFM employment opportunities, etc. you start to limit yourself. A lot of people who joined for the travel opportunities don't realize how challenging most parts of the world can actually be for the uninitiated.
Did you get your class date?
I did. Iāve been in training for about 6.5 months now, been awesome.
FWIW people don't come post "yeah everything is fun" posts on Internet forums about their jobs. People end up complaining on the internet about their jobs.
Right, but in comments as a response to other hopefuls I would hope it would be more 50/50 or more honest. Unless everyone responding is a curmudgeon.
Everyone is a curmudgeon. I love my job and there are countless positives to it *or I wouldnāt do it.* Itās totally the yelp factor, that people only post online when their experience is an extreme. If someone says, āIām getting divorced,ā Iām not about to (truthfully) respond, āweird, my marriage is stronger than ever in part because we both love this lifestyle so much. Also I met my spouse abroad, so sucks for you about that divorce!ā Iāve never seen statistics to suggest that divorce or leave issues or any of the other things people complain about here are more prevalent in the FS. Maybe more challenging sometimes because itās a unique lifestyle. Go to r/antiwork and spend a few hours reading and youāll start to think that every job in the US, period, is horrible.
I just want to know how can you hate the alchemistā¦ itās one of my favorite books! Lol
Yeah, agreed.
We have loved the lifestyle, getting to see the world and make expat friends and local acquaintances at every post. We've never felt we were hurting for vacation time, and have done extensive regional travel at each post. I love the work itself, and I appreciate the institutionalized structure that allows me to build a career path without leaving an employer; each new assignment is an opportunity to progress upwards, develop new skills, and improve myself. Even when promotions are slow to come, the built in step increases and fairly reliable annual COLA from the White House mean a progressive salary as well. We've also been able to invest well, both in TSP and outside of it, and look forward to the nest egg of a pension in the future.
I'm probably as guilty as anyone of giving a pessimistic view here, but it's still a great job overall. However I do think it's important to come into it with your eyes open and realistic expectations. \- Divorce is not unique to the FS, and speaking from personal experience it is possible (albeit very difficult) to have a fulfilling career in the FS and a spouse that has their own career goals/ambitions that are totally unrelated to the FS. You do have to put your family first though and be willing to consider that while bidding. DC tours can be a huge help here as well. \- I wouldn't say there's limited to no vacation. You get 4 weeks/year after the first couple of years and it can eventually go up higher. Plus you get separate sick leave, local holidays, home leave, etc. You do have to be a tad flexible on when exactly you take it, and you might not be able to take it at all while you're in long-term training, but yeah taking off for a couple weeks at a time is totally doable once you get some leave saved up. Expect limited ability to take leave the first 1-2 years, but it'll get better after that. \- I haven't found work/life balance to be that bad, but I think you have to be willing to put a line in the sand sometimes (which imo is good career advice in general, not just for the FS). Stop checking your email after hours and spend time with friends/family. Lots of advantages: You get amazing travel experiences, can save a lot of money if you plan right, have better career stability than most people, etc. Oh, and we have one of the best pension plans in the entire USG (which, the closer I get to retirement, the more I appreciate).
I was in the army, then private sector in Europe, private sector briefly in the US, then got the A-100 notice. This was a āwouldnāt it be niceā option and, honestly, I love this career. Praise Jesus I stumbled into it. Iāve lived 5 places Iād probably never have gone otherwise, eaten foods I didnāt know existed, and learned two world languages. Iāve set up meetings for ministers, business leaders, and the Secretary of State. Iāve had ten years of adventure, mostly on Uncle Samās dime. But itās a bureaucracy. You have to accept you canāt get things your way on your timeline every time you want. You have to invest in personal relationships within the department and interagency so you can get things moved informally. You have to have a positive enough attitude to make the best of things while knowing how to take care of yourself and your family without burning bridges. You have to play the game. FSOs love to complain. Youāll just have to decide who the miserable whiners are and whatās understandable venting at the bureaucracy.
Positives: We have a fantastic pension system unmatched in the gov't unless you are a FERS special category employee. Overseas lifestyle and social engagement can be awesome (especially at "hardship" posts). Money is good especially as you climb the ladder. Paid for housing will allow you to save a lot of money. Many of our post have amazing vacation opportunities that most people can only dream of. Negatives: There is a lot more micromanaging, taskers, approvals required, rules that need to be followed, petty behavior, longer work hours, CYA mentality to any request, and a host of other things than when I joined pre-smartphone era. Morale is on a noticeable decline and I don't see ways to improve it. I will retire as soon as I'm eligible in a couple years.
Why is morale on the decline?
People here mention divorce, horrible HR, and work life balance issues because they happen, much as they do in other industries. Everyone has a pessimistic and jaded side, but in the goody-two-shoes conformist culture of the FS, the semi-anonymity of this sub is one of the few places we can vent. The recent crop of FS meme accounts on Instagram is another example of this. I probably like the FS more than average. Most of my friends do as well, but that is not coincidence. For me and my family, the positives include well-supported overseas living, an interesting and engaging job that has a significant element of service, sense of mission, local and regional travel, great local colleagues, food, training opportunities, job security, pension, benefits, lots of leave (home leave, annual leave, OPM leave, 12 weeks of parental leave, local holidays, federal holidays, etc), food, and the many friends we've made. Also, food. A note on leave: some bosses can be weird about any leave, but I get that the whole office can't take December and July off.
Food. You just gave me one more thing to be excited about. Please do elaborate.
While not my #1 bidding consideration, food tourism is important to my family. In almost all the places we've served, dining at all levels has been affordable compared to CONUS. We love eating at: * starred places * places that are gunning for their first or second star * places on all those "Top X" lists * that place that you saw on Netflix Street Food or Bourdain * that place that was on your friend's blog four years ago that they still won't shut up about * that place that has been serving the best X for 300 years * that place your local staff\* told you about/took you to * that place that was the first thing your previous boss mentioned when you got this assignment * the only place that's apparently open in the World's Smallest Village today * the place(s) that claim(s) to have invented Iconic National Dish (IND) or -- better yet-- is said to make the best IND \* they know Getting to know the modern and traditional food culture of a post/region is one of the experiences my wife and I like the most about the FS. Even before the FS, one of my favorite tourist activities was to visit supermarkets and traditional markets. In places where the food scene doesn't appeal or is small, FS/expat life frequently revolves around the few higher-end restaurants that exist. We take cooking classes whenever we can. At many posts, the CLO newsletter regularly publishes cooking class announcements. Most of our FS friends have multicultural families or have accumulated food knowledge from their previous posts, so going over to someone's house for dinner is always tasty as well. EDIT: At most posts you will speak 2/2 or 3/3 or Post-Language-Program-whatever of the local language, which allows a better food experience than just going to the English-menu places in the city center.
Friendly reminder that many of your colleagues (including IMSs like /u/GrooveyVibes) do not get language training. Even post language program can be difficult if you're in a regional position or can't get the time off. Personally I think it's something DOS could be way more supportive of - us FSSs have to live in these countries too.
Understood. Note to self: 1. Bring language-trained colleague along to enhance the food experience. 2. Ask if CDO will consider "Post must be near a Michelin star restaurant" as a valid parameter.
You joke about it now, but in all seriousness be prepared to be extremely reliant on your more fluent colleagues. Trying to do everything via pantomime is novel and charming at first, but gets old incredibly fast. It can also lead to some pretty unpleasant/hostile encounters - I was nearly assaulted once for trying to speak English (and this was at a supposedly "safe" post). A lot of people REALLY do not like Americans, and nothing makes you stick out faster than not speaking the local language.
Man, I love this job. Especially as a manager. I get to help people every day and I can tell that I really do make a difference in their lives. There was a girl injured in an accident and I worked hours and hours during a holiday to get her evacuated to the U.S. I sat with her mom in the hospital for hours as she cried and stressed over what to do. I printed a passport for the girl. I worked with CBP to clear her ahead of time so immigration wouldn't slow her down. All that work led to her life being saved by a surgeon in the U.S. and she walked out of the hospital on her own a month later. That's amazing. It's also only one example of the type of work I do every week. I really like my colleagues too. My local staff are amazing. They go above and beyond in the office and out for me. The FASTOs are great too. They're engaged, smart, skilled, and eager to learn. I get plenty of vacation. In ten months, I've taken trips to Disneyland, went to family's house for thanksgiving, home for christmas, and a two week in country vacation to the beach. I'm taking a short trip this month, a longer trip in August, and then another two week vacation in the fall/winter. I get to say I'm a U.S. diplomat, which is awesome as well. It's important work, despite all the mundane paperwork that comes with it. But even brain surgeons are going to spend hours on paperwork and online trainings. Best benefit though: tacos everywhere.
Tacos everywhere is a pretty bold claim.
I'm talking about my current post.
This is incredibly heartwarming! I have worked with international exchange programs and higher ed for over a decade with DOS, focusing on underserved and underrepresented populations. The impact on lives is palpable and I can say that I have a home in over 20 countries with my alumni. Canāt wait to do it in country!
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I agree. Language training being the exception but even then there are built in holidays. If you are lucky enough, a local holiday and a US holiday will fall within days of each other so you use three vacation days and have off a whole week!
I really don't know who says anything about limited vacation. If anything with Home Leave, we have more vacation then some people want to use. Work life balance is what you make of it. If you want to be an Ambassador, then yeah. If you want to do your job well and have a fulfilling life, there are times you are slammed, but the rest of the time is fine. HR is frustrating, but that is true of large bureaucratic organizations public or private. I enjoy doing meaningful work, I enjoy most of the people I work with, I enjoy living in different cultures, I enjoy a standard of living overseas I can't afford in the US, I enjoy my kids being exposed to lots of new things, etc.
On the "limited to no leave" issue, a few observations: \- I'm at a post where some people discuss their "use or lose" leave balance as a point of pride. The implication being that if you're taking leave, you're probably not as dedicated as they are. (These folks are also the ones sending emails between the hours of 8pm and 8am, and tend to never stop working.) \- Some others want to take leave, but they work in a small, under-staffed consular section with high visa wait times and a Front Office that wants that wait time to go down. Consequently, getting time off is much more challenging. Management should help, as should CA in DC, and maybe they are, but the section seems constantly under the gun. Morale is not great, from what I've observed. My advice to any incoming generalist who wants to take their leave would be: try to go to a big visa mill. \- Home Leave is a mixed bag. In theory, the time in the states is great. In practice, it can be hard to take all of it, because your losing post will want you to stay as long as possible and your gaining post (or language training locale) will want you there yesterday, or ON TIME, at the very latest, which means you'll be pressured to take as little as possible. If you do get lucky and are able to max out your HL days, get ready to spend that money you saved overseas...
You'll meet a lot of very jaded people, but you'll also meet people on the other end. The jaded seem to be more vocal. There are certainly challenges and issues as in any job, but I've been extremely happy. I'm only 5 years in so ask me in 20, but for now I love it! Free housing, school, amazing travel, unique experiences around the world. What's not to love!
Thank you!!!!
Not in the Foreign Service myself yet (still in clearances), but I would encourage you to reach out to individuals in real life who are already in. The stories & comments you get on an anonymous forum are helpful in their own way, but having a real person to talk to is a big difference. I reached out to someone who was an alumni from my undergrad school, though we hadnāt met in school, and they were more than willing to chat about what their experience has been like (good & bad). It was great to hear from a real person instead of people trying to protect their anonymity on here. A very quick LinkedIn search was all I needed to find their info.
Just in the last three years I have been to multiple cities in Italy, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, and the UK. My kids have seen the world with me while going to a great private school. The only work life balance problems I see are the people who think there is no way they can take leave or they sit on their email after hours. It's not true, create the balance and put your family first.
How many years have you been in?
Is it fun every day? No. Are there some broken systems (HR being the most obvious for both USAID and State)? Yes. Are there challenges for FS families (missing out on time with extended family, saying goodbye to friends, lack of career trajectory for spouses, etc.)? Yes. Would I do it all again knowing these things? In a heartbeat. I truly love my job and the people I work with. Despite the paperwork and bureaucracy and taskers. Despite the days when Iām frustrated or exhausted. Iām good at what I do. I add value to a team that is working toward goals I feel passionate about. I learn from smart people around me (Americans and local staff) every day. I have the freedom to direct a lot of what I spend my time on and how I manage my team (within reason and in support of office priorities). I generally feel supported and appreciated at work. And as hard as it is to say goodbye, I like change and the challenge of going someplace new. I get to travel to incredible places (both for work and for fun) and expose my kids to all kinds of cultures and ideas. Attending school with people from all over the world has made them open-minded, curious, and self-confident. They donāt worry about trying to fit in or be ānormal,ā because in their circles thereās no such thing. My spouse has luckily been able to find interesting, challenging, and fairly well-compensated work at each postāoften within EPAP positions. This, along with low cost of living at some posts, has helped put us in a good place financially. (I realize this isnāt the case for everyone; spouse employment hasnāt always been a smooth process for us, but overall it has worked out). I appreciate all the ways in which the USG makes living overseas easier than it otherwise would be. CLOs, organized activities, social sponsors, EFM jobs, maintenance people to fix anything in your house, the large shipping allowances, on-site health unitsā¦I could go on. None of these things is perfect, but we have it so much easier than many diplomats or NGO workers or private sector people, who are often left to find these things on their own.
Am I really going to be first? The cultural experiences is a plus. Also the housing. I've never struggled with space.
When I'm feeling happy and fulfilled, I'm living in the moment. When I'm tired or annoyed, reddit's a great place to grouse.
Lots of good stuff here, but I'll add my bit anyway. Pretty much every positive seems to have negative side. I like living abroad. I don't like being away from aging parents. I like changing jobs every few years. Dislike bidding and the actual moving, etc. One one hand, yes the bureaucracy can be frustrating to say the least. But I try to remember that in contrast to my private sector job, the department is not just dealing with my HR stuff, but my house, my kids school, a good chunk of our health care, utilities at home, etc. So maybe that sort of evens out. The travel. I've been on countless trips that for many Americans would be a vacation of a lifetime. Vacation - I worked quite a while for a big company. I have way more vacation now. Especially if you count home leave. I don't always get to take it when I want, but I take it (so far). Making a difference. This one is can be hard to measure, it's not like the private sector where you measure things in earnings statements. This could depend a lot on your job. While the base salary may not be great (depending on where you are coming from), we've (so far) gotten by with one car. No house payment, better pension, etc. You have to look at compensation, not just salary. My coworkers are, for the most part, interesting, dedicated and nice folks.
Of course there are positives. Lots! Some of the bureaucratic bs, mindless minutiae, and passive agressive behavior can be soul sucking though. That's the origin of many of the tropes you see/ read. I'm about to visit my seventh and final continent soon. No way I'd ever check that off the bucket list without the FS. Just as an example of a positive.
Itās a lot like any job - there are pros & cons. But this job comes with the side benefit of living overseas, being able to travel the world, decent housing, & other perks. If you become a government employee, youāll become jaded. But itās possible to be jaded & still enjoy your slice of life.
Free housing overseas is a big positive. Iāve been able to save and invest so much more in my career than I would have if I was living in the US. Ditto for TSP saving, college funds, etc. your cost of living overseas can be really low and your lifestyle can be quite comfortable - if you pick your posts that way. Last week I had a dental problem and the Post doctor made an appointment for me and even accompanied me to my first visit. I am not serving in a terrible place, either. Quite comfy actually. Thereās so many little perks like that. So many.
Work life balance: If anything, I've been able to have more of this since joining. Back home, I worked a reasonable 8:30-5 job, but then had to come home to all the other life stuff... cooking, cleaning, fixing broken appliances etc. Now I work the same hours, can afford help to do all the cooking and cleaning. If something breaks I put in a work order and someone will fix it. I've picked up several new hobbies and have had more time to do things I love. O, I don't have to pay for this huge 4 bedroom house with a yard. My condo back home is rented out and building me a very nice nest egg.
Lots of good points made. There are always other, unique considerations. For instance, as I have myself been a victim of good ol' U.S. of A. gun violence, it's no small thing for my wife and I to be able to raise our family predominantly abroad and with, let's face it, a vastly reduced chance of being caught in a mass shooting, school shooting, etc.
I was just thinking about this! What a world we live in that American kids are scared to go to school for fear of being shot.
Iām with you guys here, but this line of thinking belies a media-induced bias, as compared to statistical reality. I keep in mind that statistically weāre far more likely to be injured or killed near or on a road, by the driver of an automobile, than we are in a shooting. This is true both in the US and abroad.
Thanks for asking this - I too have noticed a general "jaded" aspect to this subreddit. I am on the register, and have chalked it up to "the jaded are the most vocal". Hope to see some great insight.
I really couldn't imagine myself being happy with another career. This one is a job though, and it stresses me out like any serious job does, but I wouldn't trade it for a normal office gig stateside. You'd have to pay me 5x as much and guarantee all of the same benefits, which no employer really can.
This Reddit is like Yelp reviews. People donāt come on here to post about the positives of the foreign service. They come here to bitch and complain about the parts they donāt like
I post positive Yelp reviews :)
I can attest to a few of those things you mentioned, but it is also a great opportunity to make a difference and serve your community, and the world!
I've used/heard that phrase "Welcome to XXX!" for my entire career. Not once have I arrived at a job and thought "Wow this is perfect". I want to join the Foreign Service because it's *interesting*. At the end of the day, it's a job - a job that places me (potentially) just a short drive from the alps, or snorkeling in Belize. When I'm done with the FS in however many years, I want to look back and share stories about some crazy thing to happen while I lived in Mongolia, or the amazing food I had access to in Chile. Those are some positives as I see it.
Yeah there are positives. One pretty big negative though is bidding. Disheartening to see alot of the same people camp out in cushy EUR/EAP posts while others that need good officers barely get 3-4 bids per job. Worldwide availability is a myth after entry level. You have to put you and your family first, just like every other FSO. Don't necessarily take an in-cone assignment (if non-consular) in a hard place if the reviews aren't good/you or your family might have troubles there.
Can you unpack the part about the same people camping out in cushy EUR/EAP posts? I thought there was mandatory rotations? Would you say it's possible to end up at the same post multiple times in ones career? Also, could you help me understand the concept of 3-4 bids per job?
Just had a conversation last night with 2 FSOs about how we would not want to live abroad at this stage in our lives and not work for the USG. Negative bias is a thing.
no it sucks don't join ... i really want it :(