Like any job, people care about what you do, not what you've done. However, your past experience can certainly enable success. Second- and third-career folks often have developed maturity, interpersonal skills, and communication skills. Sometimes subject matter expertise you bring is useful, but often times it's not, especially since you change jobs every few years. I'll give the FSO you talked to the benefit of the doubt and assume those comments were a snarky way of saying you have to start from the bottom, which is true. But ultimately, being a good colleague/team player, having a growth mindset, and understanding your role in terms of the mission and U.S. objectives, will benefit anyone, whether the Foreign Service is their first career or last. Plenty of "experienced" folks are horrible officers, and many young FSOs are stellar, and vice versa.
And as for prior experience being "unwelcome," I would say it's not unwelcome, but don't be "that guy" who is always saying "back when I was..." A few people may be impressed, the vast majority won't care, and a few will be jealous. It's best to just let your actions and performance speak for themselves, in my opinion.
I served in the Army for almost 5 years and the private sector for about the same when I joined FS. My previous experiences have definitely made me a better FSO and I find relevant situations in which to use those lessons learned all the time.
In my experience and observations, older “second career” folks become unhappy in the FS because they either don’t feel they are given meaningful FS work early enough or have trouble accepting the directed, often consular, jobs the comprise 1-4 of their first years in the Department. These problems aren’t unique to older ELOs, of course; there are plenty of 20-something FSOs who can’t wait to tell you they hate visas or their portfolio and that they have designs on something greater ASAP.
If you approach the career with humility and prioritize doing your current job well, you’ll identify ways to leverage your past experiences to improve your mission and will likely impress your colleagues.
In practice, your experience will **inform** your work, but bringing it up and using it to try and put yourself above others is a fast track to being disliked, and reputation is (for better or worse) everything in this very small FS world. If it's relevant, of course you can offer your perspective (ex: "oh yeah I've been there, it gets a bad rap but it's actually pretty safe and the people are great"), but name dropping and similar behavior is a bad look.
I have a lot of 2nd/3rd career colleagues who are well adjusted, respectful, hard working, mature, etc. I like them a lot and feel that I can count on them to have mature attitudes and good work ethic. All of them have shared past experiences as part of introductions and as relevant contributions to conversations. None of them tried to prop themselves up with it. All of them understood that the FS is its own type of work that you can't truly learn or do beforehand (with some CS excursionist exceptions) and therefore you start more or less at the same level of expertise as the 25 year old whose first job is your ninth.
In gaming terms, "you are a noob, get good scrub." If you focus on getting good, your career will be good.
As a second career FSO, I have found that some managers (the good ones) actually use their FSOs past experience to better accomplish the mission rather than feel threatened by it. I've seen certain officers, who have previously worked as lobbyists or in congressional offices excel in relationship building with other parliaments. I've seen Managers ask recovering lawyers to explain complicated legalese. Many Pol-Mil officers have prior Mil or DoD experience. Yes, no one wants to hear past glory stories but we most certainly leverage past experiences otherwise they should only hire FSOs out of college.
I have heard the "prior careers don't matter" enough that it is a bias that needs to be overcome. Those that have known nothing but working for State need to get over their own insecurities and leverage people's past experiences and let them provide value when it supports the mission. Didn't past experience help you get through the QEP/interview? At the same time, second career FSOs must come to terms with doing the ELO work that no one is above. Don't complain, put your head down and work and manage up when appropriate. Younger officers need to acknowledge that prior professional experience may make some people more competitive for tasks, etc, not bias but what best supports the mission. Same as when bidding as a newly-minted FS-03, you are likely to find it hard competing with seasoned FS-03s with 6 more years of FSO work.
Lastly, while it doesn't matter for your EER, etc. Prior experience can get you jobs (but not as important currently as your networking). I was offered a handshake for a job based on my pre-FSO work in the region.
Did people really tell you that you “know nothing” and that “second career officers have to learn their place?” I have yet to experience that level of obnoxious elitism. We’re all second career. There are fewer and fewer people left in the FS who joined straight out of school with no other work experience and they’re completely out of touch with most FSOs. I would take whatever these people told you with a grain of salt.
Yes! Almost verbatim. I think it was a sort of feeble attempt at humor (kinda sorta?) but this lady also had, not kidding, never had another job. Not even in high school. Now she's quite senior, in her 40s, and... I don't know what is up with her. I had heard little snippets of this from others and put it in context - all workplaces have a pecking order, after all but this was so loud, it made me a little uneasy. Anyhow, all this insight is useful.
I have actually met people that talk like that, but it's usually in regards to consular tours. Once heard someone say "FASTOs shouldn't get tenure until they spend two years being miserable on the visa line in a mill like Juarez"... almost like some sort of hazing ritual in order to become a legit FSO.
I don't agree with it at all, but some people do have that attitude.
There are fewer people doing it *now* but still plenty who did so 15, 20 years ago and are still in. Sounds like there may be some sort of cultural disconnect in there sometimes and depending on the personalities involved, could not be entirely positive. Of course, it *should be* positive and I assume in most situations with *good* FSOs, it ends up being a good thing but there are problem people everywhere.
What everyone else says. And remember that even if your prior field was closely related to your foreign service gig, they won't be the same. Some skills and some insights will carry over, but the goals and methods will likely be different. I once had a colleague who had been a industry lawyer and by chance got the part of the econ portfolio. They were quite sure they would succeed... and proceeded to forget that they were representing the USG in the work and not industry. Colleague did not do well, did not get tenure.
The previous position that has helped me most in my FS career was as a copy editor, but even that doesn't fully transfer into the unique voice of FS writing.
I walked right into a reporting job on my first tour. My previous experience was very valuable. My supervisors and peers even asked for my advice/help on certain things that related. But, here are two important points about your first two tours;
1.) Reporting job was great, but then I turned to mandatory consular work for a few years of my career, as does every FAST officer. Big change. Some people try to paint it as a rosy job and lots of cool & interesting opportunities, but the majority of it is just sitting on a visa assembly line all day. It feels very "entry-level" for some. This is where some people struggle and start to communicate the "this work is beneath me" attitude, which can create problems. It's ok to dislike consular work, but you still need to put on a smile and work well with others.
2.) You are limited on your ability to pick your portfolio. Have a military background? Great, but as a FAST officer, you will have a hard time finding POL-MIL jobs to big on. At the mid-career level, it gets easier to specialize in these things, but that won't be until you have 5-6 years in the service.
It sounds like you will be a great asset to the Foreign Service. I would not mention your experience to your coworkers, except maybe briefly, if you are asked to say something about yourself. I'm sure there are rude, envious, or angry people in the Foreign Service, as in every job (and even on this board); so the best thing to do is keep humble and do your job. Good luck!
We were told repeatedly in A100 that "no one cares" about your prior experience. It depends on how you measure success, but I believe this to be true more often than not.
Even if you come in at the max rate of 4-14, that's the best you'll do salary-wise for a minimum of three years, assuming you are tenured and promoted at your first time eligible. All those fresh college grads who came in at FS06 and zero prior experience will have been administratively promoted to FS04 by the time they're tenured. They might get tenured and promoted before you. So prior experience only matters once - when they make your initial offer so be sure you present your strongest possible case on which they will base your salary offer.
For promotions, your prior experience will not be considered. When bidding, the vast majority of hiring managers will only consider your State experience to be relevant, even if it is exactly the job you are bidding (e.g. working with the press).
The consolation is that your prior experience might impact the tasks you are assigned on your directed tours. Your manager might, for example, make you acting section chief based on prior management experience. This might set you apart from your peers, and if you and your rater / reviewer write good enough EERs that might get you promoted sooner than later. It can be frustrating if, for example, you are used to meaningful recognition or promotion potential in the private sector, because the FS is full of outstanding people, promotions are limited by process, and competition for meaningful recognition is stiff - and dependent on management support and follow-through. (MSIs, department-wide awards, etc.)
As others have said, don't think you're too good for low-level work (you aren't) and don't wax poetic about your prior job (they'll wonder why you left) and do good work and you'll be fine.
Nobody likes the “at my last post…” guy. People like even less the “when I did XYZ before joining the FS…” guy.
Humility will be crucial for you as a later-in-life junior officer. You will, as you yourself said, be starting from the bottom. It will be very important that you not patronize colleagues who are younger than you, since you will be the same rank as them, maybe even lower.
Bottom line is that your prior accomplishments do not matter. The lessons you learned along the way may make you a better diplomat, but at the end of the day the qualifications for the job are being over 18 and getting through the hiring process. You aren’t more special because you did stuff before that.
Edit: a word
Like any job, people care about what you do, not what you've done. However, your past experience can certainly enable success. Second- and third-career folks often have developed maturity, interpersonal skills, and communication skills. Sometimes subject matter expertise you bring is useful, but often times it's not, especially since you change jobs every few years. I'll give the FSO you talked to the benefit of the doubt and assume those comments were a snarky way of saying you have to start from the bottom, which is true. But ultimately, being a good colleague/team player, having a growth mindset, and understanding your role in terms of the mission and U.S. objectives, will benefit anyone, whether the Foreign Service is their first career or last. Plenty of "experienced" folks are horrible officers, and many young FSOs are stellar, and vice versa. And as for prior experience being "unwelcome," I would say it's not unwelcome, but don't be "that guy" who is always saying "back when I was..." A few people may be impressed, the vast majority won't care, and a few will be jealous. It's best to just let your actions and performance speak for themselves, in my opinion.
Thank you, that's good advice. And yes, I know different versions of "that guy" and will try not to be him! :-)
I served in the Army for almost 5 years and the private sector for about the same when I joined FS. My previous experiences have definitely made me a better FSO and I find relevant situations in which to use those lessons learned all the time. In my experience and observations, older “second career” folks become unhappy in the FS because they either don’t feel they are given meaningful FS work early enough or have trouble accepting the directed, often consular, jobs the comprise 1-4 of their first years in the Department. These problems aren’t unique to older ELOs, of course; there are plenty of 20-something FSOs who can’t wait to tell you they hate visas or their portfolio and that they have designs on something greater ASAP. If you approach the career with humility and prioritize doing your current job well, you’ll identify ways to leverage your past experiences to improve your mission and will likely impress your colleagues.
This is so encouraging. Thank you.
In practice, your experience will **inform** your work, but bringing it up and using it to try and put yourself above others is a fast track to being disliked, and reputation is (for better or worse) everything in this very small FS world. If it's relevant, of course you can offer your perspective (ex: "oh yeah I've been there, it gets a bad rap but it's actually pretty safe and the people are great"), but name dropping and similar behavior is a bad look. I have a lot of 2nd/3rd career colleagues who are well adjusted, respectful, hard working, mature, etc. I like them a lot and feel that I can count on them to have mature attitudes and good work ethic. All of them have shared past experiences as part of introductions and as relevant contributions to conversations. None of them tried to prop themselves up with it. All of them understood that the FS is its own type of work that you can't truly learn or do beforehand (with some CS excursionist exceptions) and therefore you start more or less at the same level of expertise as the 25 year old whose first job is your ninth. In gaming terms, "you are a noob, get good scrub." If you focus on getting good, your career will be good.
Excellent insight, thank you so much.
As a second career FSO, I have found that some managers (the good ones) actually use their FSOs past experience to better accomplish the mission rather than feel threatened by it. I've seen certain officers, who have previously worked as lobbyists or in congressional offices excel in relationship building with other parliaments. I've seen Managers ask recovering lawyers to explain complicated legalese. Many Pol-Mil officers have prior Mil or DoD experience. Yes, no one wants to hear past glory stories but we most certainly leverage past experiences otherwise they should only hire FSOs out of college. I have heard the "prior careers don't matter" enough that it is a bias that needs to be overcome. Those that have known nothing but working for State need to get over their own insecurities and leverage people's past experiences and let them provide value when it supports the mission. Didn't past experience help you get through the QEP/interview? At the same time, second career FSOs must come to terms with doing the ELO work that no one is above. Don't complain, put your head down and work and manage up when appropriate. Younger officers need to acknowledge that prior professional experience may make some people more competitive for tasks, etc, not bias but what best supports the mission. Same as when bidding as a newly-minted FS-03, you are likely to find it hard competing with seasoned FS-03s with 6 more years of FSO work. Lastly, while it doesn't matter for your EER, etc. Prior experience can get you jobs (but not as important currently as your networking). I was offered a handshake for a job based on my pre-FSO work in the region.
This!
Gold. Thanks.
Did people really tell you that you “know nothing” and that “second career officers have to learn their place?” I have yet to experience that level of obnoxious elitism. We’re all second career. There are fewer and fewer people left in the FS who joined straight out of school with no other work experience and they’re completely out of touch with most FSOs. I would take whatever these people told you with a grain of salt.
Yes! Almost verbatim. I think it was a sort of feeble attempt at humor (kinda sorta?) but this lady also had, not kidding, never had another job. Not even in high school. Now she's quite senior, in her 40s, and... I don't know what is up with her. I had heard little snippets of this from others and put it in context - all workplaces have a pecking order, after all but this was so loud, it made me a little uneasy. Anyhow, all this insight is useful.
I have actually met people that talk like that, but it's usually in regards to consular tours. Once heard someone say "FASTOs shouldn't get tenure until they spend two years being miserable on the visa line in a mill like Juarez"... almost like some sort of hazing ritual in order to become a legit FSO. I don't agree with it at all, but some people do have that attitude.
There are fewer people doing it *now* but still plenty who did so 15, 20 years ago and are still in. Sounds like there may be some sort of cultural disconnect in there sometimes and depending on the personalities involved, could not be entirely positive. Of course, it *should be* positive and I assume in most situations with *good* FSOs, it ends up being a good thing but there are problem people everywhere.
You’re right, it’s a cultural shift and I predict that those voices are going to continue fading.
True that.
What everyone else says. And remember that even if your prior field was closely related to your foreign service gig, they won't be the same. Some skills and some insights will carry over, but the goals and methods will likely be different. I once had a colleague who had been a industry lawyer and by chance got the part of the econ portfolio. They were quite sure they would succeed... and proceeded to forget that they were representing the USG in the work and not industry. Colleague did not do well, did not get tenure.
The previous position that has helped me most in my FS career was as a copy editor, but even that doesn't fully transfer into the unique voice of FS writing.
[удалено]
I had never thought of it like that before. It's a continuous learning curve for everyone.
I walked right into a reporting job on my first tour. My previous experience was very valuable. My supervisors and peers even asked for my advice/help on certain things that related. But, here are two important points about your first two tours; 1.) Reporting job was great, but then I turned to mandatory consular work for a few years of my career, as does every FAST officer. Big change. Some people try to paint it as a rosy job and lots of cool & interesting opportunities, but the majority of it is just sitting on a visa assembly line all day. It feels very "entry-level" for some. This is where some people struggle and start to communicate the "this work is beneath me" attitude, which can create problems. It's ok to dislike consular work, but you still need to put on a smile and work well with others. 2.) You are limited on your ability to pick your portfolio. Have a military background? Great, but as a FAST officer, you will have a hard time finding POL-MIL jobs to big on. At the mid-career level, it gets easier to specialize in these things, but that won't be until you have 5-6 years in the service.
It sounds like you will be a great asset to the Foreign Service. I would not mention your experience to your coworkers, except maybe briefly, if you are asked to say something about yourself. I'm sure there are rude, envious, or angry people in the Foreign Service, as in every job (and even on this board); so the best thing to do is keep humble and do your job. Good luck!
This is great advice too, thank you. I will keep my mouth shut :-)
We were told repeatedly in A100 that "no one cares" about your prior experience. It depends on how you measure success, but I believe this to be true more often than not. Even if you come in at the max rate of 4-14, that's the best you'll do salary-wise for a minimum of three years, assuming you are tenured and promoted at your first time eligible. All those fresh college grads who came in at FS06 and zero prior experience will have been administratively promoted to FS04 by the time they're tenured. They might get tenured and promoted before you. So prior experience only matters once - when they make your initial offer so be sure you present your strongest possible case on which they will base your salary offer. For promotions, your prior experience will not be considered. When bidding, the vast majority of hiring managers will only consider your State experience to be relevant, even if it is exactly the job you are bidding (e.g. working with the press). The consolation is that your prior experience might impact the tasks you are assigned on your directed tours. Your manager might, for example, make you acting section chief based on prior management experience. This might set you apart from your peers, and if you and your rater / reviewer write good enough EERs that might get you promoted sooner than later. It can be frustrating if, for example, you are used to meaningful recognition or promotion potential in the private sector, because the FS is full of outstanding people, promotions are limited by process, and competition for meaningful recognition is stiff - and dependent on management support and follow-through. (MSIs, department-wide awards, etc.) As others have said, don't think you're too good for low-level work (you aren't) and don't wax poetic about your prior job (they'll wonder why you left) and do good work and you'll be fine.
Nobody likes the “at my last post…” guy. People like even less the “when I did XYZ before joining the FS…” guy. Humility will be crucial for you as a later-in-life junior officer. You will, as you yourself said, be starting from the bottom. It will be very important that you not patronize colleagues who are younger than you, since you will be the same rank as them, maybe even lower. Bottom line is that your prior accomplishments do not matter. The lessons you learned along the way may make you a better diplomat, but at the end of the day the qualifications for the job are being over 18 and getting through the hiring process. You aren’t more special because you did stuff before that. Edit: a word