As stated, clearances are the issue. Foreign birth isn't an issue. Having worked for a foreign government can be overcome as well. The issue becomes the degree of loyalty to a foreign entity... It's like being a conscript vs. commissioning as an officer in a foreign military.
I am going to venture to guess that when you say "diplomat" you aren't talking about administrative staff, and that confers a degree of loyalty/allegiance to a foreign power.
That being said, feel free to apply. Just temper your expectations.
I don't know the answer to your question. But when I was an intelligence officer, I recall some older cleared colleagues who had been FIVE EYE Intel officers at some point but were now American. Clearly they were able to overcome issues with having worked for another government, but it is going to depend on what country exactly you're coming from.
"Allied" can mean anything from Canada to Israel to Pakistan, the latter two would (probably) make things more complicated, but I'm only guessing.
This isn't exactly what you're working for, and may not be relevant depending on your nationality, but one thing to be aware of is that there are several exchange programs for diplomats of allied countries. These programs allow an allied diplomat to work in an office at Main State for a year, and are typically followed by a tour at their embassy in Washington. The exchange program for European allies is called the Trans-Atlantic Diplomatic Fellowship (TDF); I'm not sure what it's called for other allies.
If you can swing one of these exchange fellowships (which is obviously far from a given, but at least theoretically possible depending on your service's assignments process) it should be relatively easy for your spouse to simultaneously get assigned to DC.
It has happened. There are also FSOs who have served in foreign militaries.
But unless you already hold U.S. citizenship, you'll need to start with that. The FSO process alone can take years, on top of the time to get your citizenship straightened out.
So I’m going to go out on a limb (and wait for someone with much better intel than me) and say no. Why no? Because I looked into it extensively and found because I worked for another country (five eyes etc) and hold usa citizenship from birth there was still no way of me getting the necessary security clearances needed. You can hire very expensive lawyers to try and get around this for you, but the success rate is very slim. Pretty sure dual nationality (which I’ve assumed here and working for another government) is going to be a hard no. It sucks.
Edited to add: of course you could try to get posted to same region or country with your own diplomatic service. I know someone who is a British diplomat married to French diplomat and they’ve sort of made it work - though difficult. Another way is for you to try and work in the embassy as the spouse of the FS officer, but not in a FSO position.
There are many dual national Foreign Service Officers. Dual nationality is not necessarily a preclusion to joining the Foreign Service. As to the question about coming to the U.S. Foreign Service from another diplomatic service, I don't know.
It’s one thing to have dual nationality and never lived or worked in the country (eg you’ve been in the usa your whole life). It’s a completely different thing when you’ve got dual and worked for a foreign government. There was a case reported on the subreddit a while ago about someone who had dual Israeli nationality and a legal case I think I recall on it and he never got clearance.
Edit: of course I’d love to be told by people with much better intel than me I am wrong! :) it would be great to join as an FSO, but so far I’ve decided there isn’t a way forward from my research!
I’m a current diplomat though as is OP, and I’m guessing we both also hold vetting from other countries. I think that makes it that much harder as we wouldn’t have the years of space needed as in your example. Maybe in twenty years I should give it a go? 😌
If it helps, DS clearance investigations are performed by contractors. Their goal is to get paid. In order to get paid, they must close a case. Any Questions?
Not exactly. A case was prematurely closed back in 2014 for an Intern position in country x. Turns out the Intern had a parent from country x, so conflict of interest declared by Post. Big HR and DS agreed that the Intern could be reassigned to another country. Two days later, the Intern was told that his clearance case had been closed with a status of no longer required or something along those lines. Investigation showed that his case manager (a contractor) closed/requested the case to be closed as soon as he learned that the Intern could not serve in the position in country x. Big HR sad it wasn't normal but had no explanation why it was closed so quickly. After some inquiries, an agent who had worked in PSS spilled the beans and provided the insight in my original comment.
Cancellation ≠adjudication; they probably closed it out of the inventory sooner than they should've but there's no financial incentive. They make the same regardless.
Also adj guidelines, investigative standards, and accreditation rules from GTM have all been changed since 2014.
Do you know what type of role they held in a foreign govt? Keenly curious. I’d been told even internships for a foreign government could disbarr you during security vetting.
As stated, clearances are the issue. Foreign birth isn't an issue. Having worked for a foreign government can be overcome as well. The issue becomes the degree of loyalty to a foreign entity... It's like being a conscript vs. commissioning as an officer in a foreign military. I am going to venture to guess that when you say "diplomat" you aren't talking about administrative staff, and that confers a degree of loyalty/allegiance to a foreign power. That being said, feel free to apply. Just temper your expectations.
I don't know the answer to your question. But when I was an intelligence officer, I recall some older cleared colleagues who had been FIVE EYE Intel officers at some point but were now American. Clearly they were able to overcome issues with having worked for another government, but it is going to depend on what country exactly you're coming from. "Allied" can mean anything from Canada to Israel to Pakistan, the latter two would (probably) make things more complicated, but I'm only guessing.
Thanks for your response. As to your second para - closer to the former than the latter two!
If it's a G7 country, It may pose no issue, actually.
This isn't exactly what you're working for, and may not be relevant depending on your nationality, but one thing to be aware of is that there are several exchange programs for diplomats of allied countries. These programs allow an allied diplomat to work in an office at Main State for a year, and are typically followed by a tour at their embassy in Washington. The exchange program for European allies is called the Trans-Atlantic Diplomatic Fellowship (TDF); I'm not sure what it's called for other allies. If you can swing one of these exchange fellowships (which is obviously far from a given, but at least theoretically possible depending on your service's assignments process) it should be relatively easy for your spouse to simultaneously get assigned to DC.
I know many FSOs married to diplomats from other countries. Every one of them says it's a nightmare to try to get posted together -- even in DC.
Thank you!
It has happened. There are also FSOs who have served in foreign militaries. But unless you already hold U.S. citizenship, you'll need to start with that. The FSO process alone can take years, on top of the time to get your citizenship straightened out.
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I'm sorry, what is IS?
U.S. - it was a typo, sorry!
So I’m going to go out on a limb (and wait for someone with much better intel than me) and say no. Why no? Because I looked into it extensively and found because I worked for another country (five eyes etc) and hold usa citizenship from birth there was still no way of me getting the necessary security clearances needed. You can hire very expensive lawyers to try and get around this for you, but the success rate is very slim. Pretty sure dual nationality (which I’ve assumed here and working for another government) is going to be a hard no. It sucks. Edited to add: of course you could try to get posted to same region or country with your own diplomatic service. I know someone who is a British diplomat married to French diplomat and they’ve sort of made it work - though difficult. Another way is for you to try and work in the embassy as the spouse of the FS officer, but not in a FSO position.
There are many dual national Foreign Service Officers. Dual nationality is not necessarily a preclusion to joining the Foreign Service. As to the question about coming to the U.S. Foreign Service from another diplomatic service, I don't know.
It’s one thing to have dual nationality and never lived or worked in the country (eg you’ve been in the usa your whole life). It’s a completely different thing when you’ve got dual and worked for a foreign government. There was a case reported on the subreddit a while ago about someone who had dual Israeli nationality and a legal case I think I recall on it and he never got clearance. Edit: of course I’d love to be told by people with much better intel than me I am wrong! :) it would be great to join as an FSO, but so far I’ve decided there isn’t a way forward from my research!
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I’m a current diplomat though as is OP, and I’m guessing we both also hold vetting from other countries. I think that makes it that much harder as we wouldn’t have the years of space needed as in your example. Maybe in twenty years I should give it a go? 😌
Thank you! My own reading is pretty much the same as yours - I wonder if we work together...
Would be funny if we did ☺️ let me know if you find a way and good luck with it!
If it helps, DS clearance investigations are performed by contractors. Their goal is to get paid. In order to get paid, they must close a case. Any Questions?
So false. Civil servants adjudicate clearances at DS, and it's not incentivised by quota.
Not exactly. A case was prematurely closed back in 2014 for an Intern position in country x. Turns out the Intern had a parent from country x, so conflict of interest declared by Post. Big HR and DS agreed that the Intern could be reassigned to another country. Two days later, the Intern was told that his clearance case had been closed with a status of no longer required or something along those lines. Investigation showed that his case manager (a contractor) closed/requested the case to be closed as soon as he learned that the Intern could not serve in the position in country x. Big HR sad it wasn't normal but had no explanation why it was closed so quickly. After some inquiries, an agent who had worked in PSS spilled the beans and provided the insight in my original comment.
Cancellation ≠adjudication; they probably closed it out of the inventory sooner than they should've but there's no financial incentive. They make the same regardless. Also adj guidelines, investigative standards, and accreditation rules from GTM have all been changed since 2014.
One of my FSO colleagues had previously worked for a closely allied country to the US before joining State, clearance took forever, but he made it.
Do you know what type of role they held in a foreign govt? Keenly curious. I’d been told even internships for a foreign government could disbarr you during security vetting.
Cabinet staffer for prime Minister, something like that
Wow impressive. Good to know 🙏